Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #94: How Joel & Sina Find the Cleanest Food

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Episode #94: How Joel & Sina Find the Cleanest Food · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: These are some of the questions that we would ask.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Are they raised in mobile housing?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Are they fed GMOs?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Does any of the food have pesticides or herbicides sprayed on them?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Does the land, do they spray the land with either pesticides or herbicides?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are any antibiotics administered?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And are the chickens disinfected with any chemicals during processing?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everybody.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to another podcast from Beyond Labels with your hosts, Joel Salatin, the farmer, and Dr.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough, our favorite um researcher.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Today's topic comes from one of our listeners.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: We love listener feedback.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Sarah Bodenheimer says, um, I listen to the podcast every Thursday morning on my way to work.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for that.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: But her basic issue is just I'm frustrated more than ever over the past couple of weeks trying to find.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: She I try, I thought I had some really good Vidalia onions.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: I went to the farmer's market and I found only um uh one vendor that doesn't spray.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, of all the vendors there at the farmer's market, and and he raises microagreens.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was looking for Vidalia onions, you know, and uh and my brother-in-law wanted to go in on a box of Vidalia onions.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I emailed the farm, asked what they spray on their crop.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: They couldn't tell me.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: All they said is, quote, all Vidalia farms spray them with the same USDA approved pesticide.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's always USDA approved in it.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, your best bet may be to buy organic onions at the grocery store, unquote.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Needless to say, uh, I'm not gonna be splitting this box of onions with my brother-in-law.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Am I doing this right?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any resources that I can access to be better equipped in finding clean food?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Any guidance or advice will be appreciated.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: My go-to question has been, what do you spray?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I feel as if leaving it open-ended on their end may allow me to have more transparency.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so so you know, this is this is not uh certainly Cena, this isn't the first time we received um, you know, a request like this.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do we how do we proceed?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you have some some great initial thoughts, uh, and we'll we'll try to help um we'll try to help Sarah uh uh uh through this.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and and at the top, I think it's important for me to say we don't have a recipe, we don't have a recipe, you know, book, but we do have some thoughts that I think will be helpful.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So Cena, you want to start?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I love this question because we've all been there, right?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a process that we go through to try to basically swap out one unclean food for one clean food at a time, right?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: We go through the process.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So what I'm gonna do is share, I'm gonna start by sharing a few tidbits from our book, from Mine and Joel's book called Beyond Labels, because we do cover a lot of this in the book in terms of where do you start?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: What questions do you ask, right?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: How do you actually find this clean food?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So under perhaps practical bite number 52, the tip is how to eat ecologically grown produce from a local farmer.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: So one website you can go to is localharvest.org.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's an organic farms section on that website.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: You enter the zip code and different farms will pop up in your area.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't just trust those farms just because they're on that website.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's like that's step one.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Step two is going to be you're either gonna call the farm or you're going to ask them questions uh by going to the farm.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the questions that we ask is what is your fertilizer program?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is your pest control program?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: What is your weed control program?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you till the soil?
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you apply biosolids to your land?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where does the water come from that's used to irrigate your crops?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And do you wax your produce?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So those are some initial um questions that you could ask beyond just, you know, what do you spray or do you spray?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or what do you spray?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in terms of trying to find ecologically raised pastured chickens, um, Joel provided a website from the American Pastured Poultry Producers Association.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's appa.org.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you can find local um pastured poultry producers.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Put one more P in it, Sina.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's A P P P.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's A P P A P A.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, APPP A.org.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you so that's step one, right?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can use that to find a local pastured poultry producer, a local PPP.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then again, you can either visit the farm or you can call them.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: These are some of the questions that we would ask.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you would ask, are they raised in mobile housing?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are they fed GMOs?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Does any of the food have um pesticides or herbicides sprayed on them?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Does the land, do they spray the land with either pesticides or herbicides?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Are any antibiotics administered?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And are the chickens disinfected with any chemicals during processing?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you could just actually ask what are what is used to disinfect the chickens during processing.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so those are our basic questions for trying to find clean chicken.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: The next one would be ecologically raised pastured eggs.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you're gonna go to that same website, the apppa.org.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, call the farmer or visit the farm, and you're gonna ask um very this basically the same questions if the chickens were raised in mobile housing, if they were fed GMOs, or any food that had pesticides or herbicides, if there were any pesticides or herbicides spread on the land, if any antibiotics were given to the chickens, and what was used to disinfect the eggs during processing, if anything, you know, like were they bleached or whatnot?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: All right, then we have we have two more.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: We have questions for finding um ecologically raised grass-finished beef and then pork.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so for the beef, the website that Joel provided was eatwild.com.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's step one.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: You would then either visit the farm that popped up or you would call the farm.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: You would ask if the cows are ecologically raised, including things like are they rotated on pasture?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are they fed GMOs or any are any of the foods sprayed with pesticides or herbicides?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or is the land spray?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if they're given antibiotics or hormones, and if the meat is not uh is disinfected with chemicals during processing, um, I would also, I'm gonna add so for the chickens, the cows, and the pork, basically any of the animals, I ask if they're vaccinated, you know, and and if they are, what are they vaccinated with, especially since, you know, Joel, we just did that three-part series on MR vaccines being in the food supply.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, if they're vaccinated with anything, that's a no-go, right?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I used to tolerate some vaccines at some point, like if we were traveling um and I didn't have access to like polyphase meat, for instance, then if they just did some traditional vaccines, I'd be willing to eat it so I wouldn't starve.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: But now that we know they're replacing the conventional vaccines, the more traditional vaccines with the mRNA versions, now it's just a no-start for me.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I won't eat anything that's been vaccinated.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then so let me, the last one is how to find the ecologically raised pastured pork.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's uh one website is eatwild.com.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's step one.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: You would then visit the farm or call them.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, ask if the pigs are rotated on pasture.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Again, if they're fed GMOs, pesticides, herbicides, if the land is sprayed with pesticides, herbicides, if they're given antibiotics, hormones, or um vaccines.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And how is the meat disinfected during processing?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a good starting point, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Those questions kind of cover a lot of different areas.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: But then Joel, you had um a couple more options for where they can start looking right through the different yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a I'll hold it up here so everybody can see it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: The uh the Weston A Price Foundation has a shopping guide, and uh they have it divided by you know uh by category, you know, bread, uh even uh, you know, pemmican and jerky, uh produce, fruits, um, processed meat, fresh meat, different things.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the the thing about this is that it has categories uh divided in even within those categories of best and good.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then and then there's uh some of them have a little thing at the end, you know, avoid, just to help you know, you know, what are what are the big red flag things that you want to avoid?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that they don't have they don't have any um any businesses uh listed, but you know, like under uh uh let's see, what under grains and legumes avoid um uh things from China.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so so um you know that this is a great guide, and and it it's growing, it's growing each year, and um and really, you know, it's it's been a been a helpful thing.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I think I think one of the most important things, Cena, that we can encourage folks in this discussion, uh, when you're looking, is just don't give up.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I you know, I I appreciate the the um the frustration.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you know, you think you're going to the farmers market and you're going to all these, you know, nice, cool, you know, uh uh clean farms.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And well, I mean, she said some of some of the people um their Vidalia Onions, they didn't even know who grew them, you know, and they're at farmers markets.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, obviously, that's not a producer-only market, that's a market that allows, you know, anybody to come in.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And there's an entire, you know, uh, whatever, non-supermarket subculture, if you will, that that goes to these non-producer only markets and um and and and and they buy and sell, you know, uh there they buy overages, um uh and and they find stuff and and and uh act as a whatever, as a as a you know, kissing cousin to the supermarket.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but beyond that, the main thing is keep looking, keep looking.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, we um we get we get frustrated, you know, we we think this shouldn't be that difficult, you know.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to find an unsprayed Vidalia onion, right?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how how hard can that be?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's actually it's actually not easy.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and you know, you might you might not have you might not be able to find a Vedalia onion.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: You might have to get a different kind of onion.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I know bidalia are really cool.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if you want to go eat one, go eat one.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna uh fuss at you.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: You you you can call that your 20%.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And Cena, don't jump on me for my 20%.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh jump back.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like don't yeah, yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So but but uh for sure, uh there are you know, there are gonna be organic beda onions probably at the supermarket.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh so just don't just diss the whole, you know, that whole option either.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: But the main thing is keep looking, don't don't take your frustration and say, ah, you know, forget this, it's too difficult, and and go eat bonbons in front of the Netflix show.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh uh stay with it.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I would say, uh, so I'm gonna counter that argument.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I would say don't include the sprayed um Vidalia onion from the farmer's market as a 20%.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So go to the store and get the organic Vidalia onion.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's uh there's nothing wrong with going to the grocery store or you know, or ordering online from like Misfit's Market or imperfect foods.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think that you know, part of this is let's stop shaming ourselves for not being quote unquote perfect, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would like to buy all of my food, all of it, from local farmers or small businesses that I trust, right?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: That would be fantastic.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: But as um Sarah has is finding out and is sharing with us, that is a really tall order, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: That is really difficult to do.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so not only like let's stop shaming ourselves for not being able to, you know, fulfill that tall order, but let's also make sure we're not shaming each other for the choices that we're making, right?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're all doing the best that we can in with the resources, the time, the effort, the money that we have.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is all very expensive, right?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: It starts to add up.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you only have so many, um, so much local food available to you that's around you.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like Joel, if you want to get your bananas, which you love, I'm sure you're going to the store to go get your organic bananas.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: We we get we get organic bananas and and um yeah, and sorry, um, I like bananas.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I love I love avocados, and I'm not getting them around here.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm ordering, you know, I at least try to order it from a company that I like.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm ordering them from Mistfits whenever possible to get my organic avocado.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't compromise and eat the conventional food, but I don't have to because there's always an organic option.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I always revert to that one instead of going to the conventional.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: But don't beat yourself up if you're still walking into the grocery store, because even Joel and I get stuff from the grocery store, right?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is okay to do that.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: If anything, it share, it tells you how how complicated the food supply is and how much room there is to still move the market, right?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because even if obviously we want to buy local as much as possible and from farmers who we trust as much as possible.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, Sarah, you can buy from Joel, even if you don't live in Virginia.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can still support that farm by purchasing food online.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: You can support Ed El Zinga from Alder Springs Ranch up in Idaho by purchasing online.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can still speak with your dollars, even if you don't live near local farmers.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to ship it into you.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like we talked about this in a previous podcast, I don't even pay for the shipping when I buy from Joel's farm because I have my rewards points that I get from being a loyal customer there.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you can still buy those things.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can still find local people if possible that are raising food without the toxins on it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if not, there there also isn't a shame in going to the store or or ordering it for Misfits and getting something organic.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's baby steps, right?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And just moving forward.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Cena, is there anything, is there any food that you have like just given up on?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is too hard, it's too hard to find something that goes through my.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can go to the grocery store still and buy a lot of the stuff that's even out of season, but that's a whole nother conversation.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but like watermelon, for instance, I can only get that organic in season, okay?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I can get everything that I want to actually eat in a non non-toxic form.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's let's um let's just to be a little uh more helpful, let's talk a little bit about websites.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've actually thought about you know doing a I don't know, an article about how to how to how to vet a website.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh this this came to me um a year ago when um when a uh a large uh uh distributor was touting themselves as um as as the friend of homesteaders.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're the ultimate homesteaders marketplace and and all that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I had a lady call me, you know, said uh is this is I said, well, I don't know.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I jumped on the website for this big uh for this outfit, their website, and so I, you know, I go to the home page and I, you know, it says uh meet our farmers.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, I click on, you know, meet our farmers.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and by the way, if you're if you're buying food from a website that purports to be um authentic, they should have they should have a meet our farmers page.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: They they should be able to take you all the way to their provenance.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: If they just say, well, we buy from good farmers or natural farmers or whatever, that's that's a that's a red flag.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, so I go to meet, you know, meet our farmers and um on on chicken, all right.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Chicken, let's meet our farmers, and I go to the page, and the the background of the picture is five Tyson chicken houses.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that's the picture on the home page of Meet Our Chicken Farmers.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well that's a dead ringer, okay?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's a dead ringer.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and so, um, so I don't want to, you know, I don't want to fuss at the lady that asked me, uh, are these people right?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm sitting there thinking in in in 15 seconds, I was able to click, click, click, and and get I don't have to see anymore.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't have to see any more.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: If if they're saying we're the source for homesteaders and small farmers and their purveyance page is five Tyson chicken houses in the background, I don't need to go anymore.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I already don't trust them.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: I already don't trust them.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and so so actually using websites, okay, uh using websites both diligently and discerningly is a bit of a skill.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit of a skill, and and you you have to practice it.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And goodness, I mean, think of uh what is there?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's uh right now, uh globally, I think there's something like one website for every 10 people on the planet.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there there are millions and millions and millions and millions of them.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh so you can do you can do a lot of you know, we used to say uh the yellow pages.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Remember the yellow pages in the phone book?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Are you old?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are you too young to remember that, Cena?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would no, I do remember that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let your fingers do the walking through the yellow pages, right?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And but you know, we we don't have yellow pages anymore, but we do have websites, and and you can Google up, you can pull up websites, and so um, so so be diligent about it, you know.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and and use those websites, dig into them.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: They they ought to they ought to give you the actual farm, they ought to give you uh, you know, actual pictures, and and then and then you can actually go to the farm's website, all right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: See what the farmer says.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, our biggest competitor here in the Shenandoah Valley is Shenandoah organics, and um, you know, they're a massive Organic outfit.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: They use factory houses.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And when you go and say, you know, meet our farmers, and you can just and and they're transparent.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: They're, you know, here's our farmers, you know, John and Mary Jane and you know, Jack and all this.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: You meet their farmers.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Every one of them has this pretty, you know, family profile picture.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they're standing out next to their, you know, uh great big factory chicken house.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: There are no chickens on pasture.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's just this great big, you know, metal steel uh uh chicken house monolith, and they're standing in front of it proudly.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure wonderful people, delightful family, all that stuff.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: But um uh, you know, it doesn't take but about 15 seconds of sleuthing, and you see where their chickens are.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: They're in a confinement house, uh, no pasture, and and that's you know that's the thing.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so so this this is a skill that you can develop.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what I have found as I'm slewing through the different websites and trying to find clean food, because I am constantly um like procuring food from different sources, right?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: As one source changes or the ingredients change, I change sources.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what I have found is that I don't spend but a few minutes just you know skimming over the email because I mean skimming, skimming over the website, because as you and I have discussed in great depth, uh people are good at wordsmithing and you use a few buzzwords, and people are like, yes, like the podcast we just did on regenerative, right?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I see the word and I'm like, it means nothing to me.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually call them.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's no phone number, I send them an email.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: So like some of the bigger companies, um, they want you to email, it's hard to call them.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I I contact them through email or phone and I ask them specific questions, like the ones that we just covered at the top of this podcast.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I'm point blank, like very specific, because if you leave it open-ended, you know, like what do you spray with?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or like, do you spray?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: They can craft that into any way they want for marketing purposes to make it seem like they're not spraying very much, or they're not spraying very many chemicals, or they only spray when they need to, things like that.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I'll give you an example.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: When I was researching for the mRNA vaccines and livestock podcasts that we did, I started contacting different major companies that people are going that's that many people are starting to support because they're trying to find clean food.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So companies like ButcherBox or Applegate, for instance, and there are a few others.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I looked on their websites first, it didn't say it didn't really say anything about vaccines.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, that was already a red flag.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like, well, okay, they're hiding something, or either either they're hiding that they're using the vaccines, right?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not going to advertise it on the website, um, or it's not important to them.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right, they don't think consumers care about the vaccines, so they're not going to put it on there.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to get to the bottom of it and find out.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually um called and I I called Applegate.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up getting an email back.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing happened with ButcherBox.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can only actually email them.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what this is a snippet of the response I got from ButcherBox.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our partners follow industry standards when it comes to the vaccination of animals.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: We only administer vaccines that are approved by government regulatory agencies, just like our listener got the response, only USDA approved um, you know, sprays.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, Cena, I mean, I mean, I love that.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are so many red flags right there.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many red flags that if you're if your radar is on, listen, if you're listening to this podcast, your radar should have just gone bonkers.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: When Cena read that the read that response from ButcherBox.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then for me, it got worse.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the response continues.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Vaccines are administered to protect the health and well-being of an animal.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Vaccinations vary by species, and within a species can vary by farm location and other circumstances.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because of this, we are not able to provide a list of the specific vaccines.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is important to remember, though, that our suppliers don't administer antibiotics or give hormones.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, so no antibiotics and hormones, good, but you know, we do, they do do vaccines.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then it says we have written confirmation from our suppliers that if they are exploring the use of mRNA, that we would be informed before any changes were made.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's not very reassuring to me.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Also, because if you talk to um a lot of the farmers, um, they're not even aware that the traditional type of vaccines are being replaced by mRNA vaccines.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're not even aware.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like I'm saying, oh, your supplier is going to be dubious on purpose.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying they probably aren't going to know.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: They're at large outfits, they may not even know that that's actually already in the works.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so to me, this is a these are big red flags.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why I call or I email and I ask the specific questions.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: I actually like to email because then you have it in writing, right?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you can go back and forth where they email you, and then you can you can you can tease apart, you know, like you can go into more depth upon their answer, and they will email back and forth with you, you know.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't, I I've never had anybody not continue to email me.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if they don't, then that was a red flag right there, right?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to go to that person or that company.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that that's well said, and they um that that answer that you got is a very it's an example of a cleverly written stock answer.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Stock somebody somebody didn't sit down there and customize that answer to you.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, they copied and paste that from paste that.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a stock answer.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and it's assuming that you, you know, um that you'll you'll buy, you know, that that you'll you'll uh you'll smell what they're shoveling.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And yes.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, Joel, I'm glad you brought that up, that it's like a stock answer because the responses that I got from like Applegate and the other couple companies that I emailed, they were almost identical.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Almost identical.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it was almost like, wow, are they all getting together and coming up with some answer that like the Cattleman Association gave them or something?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, that's totally speculative on my part, but we have seen that happen with RBGH, right?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I I can I can give you the answer, Cena.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: The answer is yes.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: They they they you know, they they go to trade shows together.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they they have their their industry trade shows, just like you know, the podiatrists get together and the dentists get together.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, trade shows are wonderful.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I love trade shows.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's where you get the latest whatever stuff.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so these folks are going to seminars on how to craft answers.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there is there is a tremendous amount.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they they they'll they'll do a trade show and they'll hire a you know, uh a Cracker Jack um, you know, advertising agency wordsmith to come in and do a day-long uh seminar on uh and and they'll throw specific questions.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how do you you know deal with this?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, this is a this is an entire um um you know sub subvocation.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a it's an entire vocation that people devote their lives to um to crafting messaging.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, we don't we don't hire ad agencies, but we do it here.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, anybody that's in sales is always trying to craft their message in a way that's attractive to the majority and uh and not offensive to the minority.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we're we're all doing that.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, I I don't have a problem on their part of doing this, but yes, to the answer to the question, do you think they're actually getting together and colluding?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, absolutely.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: They are colluding and and they're they're sitting there in their you know, they have breakout sessions and let's write one for this response.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's write one for this response and they're you know, their$500 fee to go to the to go to the conference.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they come home now with you know with templates, templates of um, you know, of of good of good messaging to be able to answer these kinds of questions.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I haven't encountered that when I've inquired at local farms, right?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: The response is very different, like an email response or a phone message response.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's very different.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's also that's one thing that I look for actually.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in terms of you started this segment of this podcast on let's let's be a little helpful and give some more websites.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um let me pick up there just briefly.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned that sometimes I buy organic from um organic produce from Misfits, uh Imperfect Foods, although I think they might have just been bought out by Misfits.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm don't quote me on that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also purchase organic, um like more perishable items, like my grain-free ketchup, for instance.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um I get that from Thrive Market.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also a lot of my friends buy from, I never pronounce it right, it's like Azure Standards.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Azure.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Azure.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Azure Yes, from Azure Standards.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they love their like some my girlfriends um get their food and they're like they've they've always had positive things to say about them.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that that's another option.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um Joel, do you have any any additional no?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've I think you've covered a lot of good ones.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, we're at we're out of time here, but I I think I think that we've we've kind of addressed this and and you know we we continue to to come back to this because our our listeners um I mean this is one of the most common questions, right, in the world is where do you find this stuff?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I certainly in this podcast, I think we've given everybody some some really good nuts and bolts, practical places that you can go, um, some tips on on vetting, you know, through websites, some of the questions to ask.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, I think to wrap it up, we would simply say uh don't give up.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh be encouraged and and don't give up.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and you will, if you if you keep um, you know, if you keep searching, uh, you know, you you'll you'll find that uh that option.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um and and I think that's that's our that's our final encouragement to everybody to um you know to to just not not give up and stay with it.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us on another Beyond Labels podcast.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Cena and I uh appreciate your listening.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if you like this kind of information, please share it with your friends so that we can uh continue to get more of this practical advice out to our world.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being with us.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: We look forward to you on our next Beyond Labels podcast.