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Transcript

Rugby Direct: Episode 218 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Follow this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Straight Down. They get inside the game from every end goal.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier powered
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: by News Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Heaven Health Physio book
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: today and stay in the game. Back for our midweek
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: podcast and I can't believe it. Back face to face
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: for the first time in what this must be two months,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I think, Liam Napier, Good to see your face again.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: You too earlier. It's been a long haul. It's still
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: a long haul head, but yeah, great to see your face.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: And thanks for shaving for me.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: It's making exactly you know, I did think about shaving
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: this what age? I thought, Now I can go another
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: another day or two. So it is looking really sloppy.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Some big news this week since we recorded on Tuesday,
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Mowana pacificat disbanding the Pacific Medical Association, their owners saying
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: that they are unable to fund them for future seasons
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: of Super Rugby Pacific, so this will be their last
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: year as it stands, although, as The Herald has reported
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: that you know new Ze New Zealand Rugby is saying
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: there could be some interested parties out there that they're
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: willing to talk to around securing the license and the
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: ability to run Mowana Pacifica. But on the surface of it,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: they are gone from Super Rugby after the season. Your
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: initial reaction to the fact that that one is pulling pin.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: I think, first and foremost, it's it's sad, isn't it.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: You never want to see a team go under, particularly
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: one with a stated purpose of building depth and connection
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: with the Pacific Island community and back to the island nations.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: But it's not a surprise at all. This has been
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: brewing for probably since their inception, really had visions of
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: being based in the Islands. I've taken games back there
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: and it's it's a business. Rugby is a business. This
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: is not a club team. This is a team that
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: needs to come up with ten to twelve million a
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: year to stay afloat. That's what it costs to run
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: a Super Rugby team. And yeah, I wouldn't draw a
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: line through them just yet because there is a possibility
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: that White Night emerges, but it does seem increasingly unlikely
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: that they had a tender process out at the end
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: of last year, so what are we five six months
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: on from that and they haven't found anyone yet. There
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: was talk about a consortium in Melbourne. Ali Williams had
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: a bit of a look at it and then decided
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: against it. So unless someone's willing to come in and
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: throw money at it and be prepared to lose upwards
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: potentially of three four five million a year one as
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: this will be there last year, well it.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Would have to be a philanthropic venture or an ego
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: venture or whatever it means. You know, the idea of
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: owning a sports team, because a twigging someone like that
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: that's got not going to miss the amount of money
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: that they're going to lose on this, because running a
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: sports team in this part of the world is a
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: loss making venture and the Foundation Super Rugby franchises find
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: it hard going hard yakat to turn a profit or
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: even break even. We've heard a number of times about
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: the fact that a lot of the Super Rugby sides
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: rely on making the playoffs and having a home playoff
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: game to break even in a year. So when you
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: combine Mowana's poor results, their poor gate revenue, their ability
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: and ability to prep secure big names from the Pacific
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: for the team. It had become dre I say it,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: you know ardisav aside, but it wasn't you know. There
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: were certainly players like Miracle Fire Lungey, they'd come through
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: moan as pathways and done very very well. But a
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: lot of the players were using it for one last contract.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: And yes that bad names Julian Sarva, Nonula up A.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: There are others there, Leediafano, Sikorpikiph even you know, players
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: that we know we're looking for one last contract and
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: to retire as and want a player, and that is,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: you know, a noble thing to do. But it's also
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: you know, at the back end of their career, is
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: not getting in their prime. So it feels like Milana's
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: death is buy a thousand cuts. There's no one specific reason,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: but ever since they entered the competition, and it felt
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: like they were almost on borrowed time from the start.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, look the financial picture is grim from Winer
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: and has been for some time. They when they came
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: into the competition, they relied on massive government grant I
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: think it was four million dollars. They in recent times,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Sky were their front a Jersey sponsor. I think that
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: was worth maybe three hundred k. That's not likely that
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: that wasn't going to continue. They get a share of
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: the broadcast revenue, but it's not a great deal. And
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: then they had funding from World Rugby which is going
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: to cease apparently as well. So you have to find sponsors,
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: you have to find backers. And I did a lot
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: of reporting about the Pacifica Medical Association. They lost a
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: massive contract so they were always up against it whether
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: they could continue beyond this year. So the financial picture
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: did not look good. And when you take a step
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: back about professional rugby at this level globally, one aren't alone.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: We've seen the Melbourne Rebels go under. We've seen major
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: league rugby teams fall over consistently over their premiership clubs
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: are losing money hand over fist. Welsh rugby is in
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: a die financial state. So the other New Zealand Super
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Rugby teams, as you say, rely on playoff games. The
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: Hurricanes last year I think lost two point five million
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: dollars and Wellington Rugby had to sell their share their
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: stake in the Hurricanes. So this is not an isolated
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: financial situation running a Super rugby club in this part
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: of the world, or a professional club in any part
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: of the world is a highly expensive and very challenging
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: thing to do.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I spoke to Limasopouwanga yesterday on News Talk ZB and
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: he talked about, you know, ideally, get there's a you know,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Ryan Reynolds type that you know, Rex and FC that
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: can come make a Netflix or a Disney Plus show
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: and the Rock Jason Momoa, Taikawa tit whoever it might
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: be red Bull potentially you know someone that can intervene
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: and maybe have a Red Bull more on a Pacifica.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: But these are all nice ideas and look, maybe something
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: does happen in that in that realm, but it's hard
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: to see at this point. Is this something that World Rugby, though,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: should be looking to fund more regularly? You know, is
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: this beneficial to World Rugby that they could keep funding
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: at and dig a little deeper into their pockets and
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: help out Wanner Pacifica in terms of keeping them alive.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Look, I think it's a very valid question because if
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: you look around the global game, the proliferation of Pacific
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: players is very evident, whether it be in the All
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Blacks or England or professional rugby in any part of
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: the world. The Pacific players bring that flair, that athleticism,
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: and there's not a lot that funnels back to those
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: national teams are they You look at Samoa, Tonga, Fiji's
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: the exception. The Dura have really made an impact and
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: Fiji have improved and they've actually come to the top
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: table from an international perspective. But there's a real argument
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: that will Rugby needs to do more and there's a
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: there's a duty of care. But there's also longstanding problems
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: in the Pacific of corruption about where this money goes,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: where it's spent, and that's not a need thing to
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: solve either.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: No it's not. And speaking of as I said, death
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: by a thousand cuts for Mwana. You know, ideally this
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: was the vision that they were going to be based
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: in the Pacific, whether it's an up again and lookal
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: ward over and run or co run by Samora and
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Tonga and rugby unions, and that was the dream initially,
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: but never quite got to that point. They started at
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Mount Smart, they've ended up at North Harbor Stadium. They
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: played a few home games in Pokakoe Rot. I'm sure
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: they try the other places that played as well as
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: home games. There've been no mads, but the fact that
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: they were never based in those Pacific islands didn't help
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: bring that connection like the Drua have done in Lowtoka
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: and Suba and bar wherever.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: They've played every I think every match because it was
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: the Chiefs of the Crusaders. The Blues have actually taken
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: games to the Pacific as well, and all those games
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: have been lost making ventures and one were meant to
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: go to Nolfaloka this year and ended up playing in
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Pukakoe because the facilities weren't there, because they were going
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: to lose a lot of money. So it's very easy
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: to sit back and say rugby needs a team based
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: in Sarmon, Tonga, and yeah, they probably do, but there's
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: all sorts of questions around that, do players want to
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: live there, what are the facilities? Does it stack up
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: financially and most of those concerns don't stack up, and
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: so it's a real vexed issue that nobody's been able
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: to solve about how you contribute to the Pacific nations
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: that give so much to the global game it is.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Indeed, there's also been the criticism or their ability to
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: retain some of their key talents Levi and Muller, Tamathy
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: tavetav naw Way, Cirentine wifel Hour have all been quote
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: unquote picked off by New Zealand franchises. Part of me goes,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: that's not what one was built for, was to give
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: these players pathway. The other part of me goes, well,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: it's professional sport. You're entered in a professional arena and
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: part of that is the retaining and signing of players
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: or letting go of players. But again it's been used
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: a little bit as a shop window for some of
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: the New Zealand teams to get some talent through the
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: doors in the franchises.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the one exception was they managed to
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: come up with the cash to get more Ardi there
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: when he was paid more to play for Muana than
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: he was the Hurricanes or what the Hurricanes were willing
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: to offer him. So that's the one exception. The problem
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: there is those players you mentioned or view the All
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Blacks as a superior pathway, a superior way to set
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: themselves up financially, and that's a reality. Players who go
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: back to represent their island nations have endured many issues,
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: whether it be insurance or travel or not getting paid.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: And the disparity between playing for Tonga and Samoa and
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks is massive.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: It's huge, isn't it. It really is huge that they
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: you know, and if you have the eligibility and think
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: you're a genuine chance of making the All Blacks, you
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: can't do it out of playing for more on Pacifica.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Those are the rules. So Tom Wilf had to move elsewhere.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: They retained Subi sid to Paultayler who was unwanted by
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: the Highlanders, didn't make their full squad. He got them
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: in their last year and now he's resigned for a
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: couple of years. So but he would be ineligible for
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks despite having you know, All Blacks eligibility.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: So there are there are players like that little fish
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: hooks right around the system. I guess, the question being
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: we're too now for a number of these players, including
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Ardisavia who is under contract for more Wanda Pacifica for
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven and what would probably be is last
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: year in New Zealand rugby.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a big question. And unless some white knight
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: comes in and does prop up More for another year,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: which does seem increasingly unlikely. Ardie will become a free agent. Look,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: he could make bank abroad by going on another sabbatical
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: without be Japan.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Do you think New Zealand Rugby would allow that.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: No.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: In short notes, this his last year probably of his contract,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: one of the new je rug also his current contract.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: And it's a World Cup year. I think you if
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: there's one year you're reluctant to let players leave the
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: country and not be in the shop window, and not
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: be monitored from a workload perspective, all those things. If
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: he went to France or Leinster. It's a big old
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: year with a World Cup on the horizon. So no,
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't completely draw a line through him going offshore.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: But I think New zeal Rugby would be hugely reluctant,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: having already granted him two sabbaticals in this World Cup
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: cycle and having come close to losing him. Look at
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: this point, I would say, I don't know this for
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: a fa but I would say the Blues are favorites
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: to land Ardi because the Hurricanes have great depth and
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: their loose forwards. Mentioned that they're loss last year. From
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: a financial perspective, they're not gonna be able to break
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: the bank and pay Ardie what he wants. Probably, you've
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: got guys like Jordie. I think he's their top earner
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: and that's not going to change. And the Hurricanes are
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: going great. They're not going to break the bank for
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: one guy. The Blues are the richest New Zealand franchise.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: They have a suite of sponsors. John Hart has rich
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: businessman in his pockets and contributing. They're losing Dalton, Papali,
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Hoskinsitutu and others. I've got Anton Signa. But it does
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: make a lot of sense. The only thing is Ardie's
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: family is based in Wellington. But at this point I
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: would say if Minor folds that that's where I think
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: he would.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: He would have been expecting to spend most of the
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: season in Auckland with more Waner Pacifica, so that's a
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: natural switch that he could go play for the Blues.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: His brother Julian obviously is up in Auckland and playing
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: for Morena at the moment and living in Auckland, so
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: that's a possibility. Look pretty good in red and black
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: at the new Stadium. Yes, I thought, you know, I
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: don't think anything Blackett assigned for next year for the Crusaders,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: so that they may be in the market potentially.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Some thought, somehow I can't see that penny ass.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: But there are other players obviously other than ard that A. Now,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: well that's the question. You know, if you're a player
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: that is either on contract for twenty seven or off
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: contract with more Wana Pacifica, is your contract now null
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and void with more Wanna Pacifica. You know, yes there
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: might be some new owners, but does that contract hold?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Are you now a free agent? Would you trust that
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: there could be someone to come through? So if you're
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: a player that is under contract, are you able to
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: break that contract because there's no ownership. So that's the
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: intriguing thing for me is that surely these players not
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: bound by the contracts that they may have in their
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: name for twenty seven and possibly beyond that.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if you're a player in that vulnerable
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: situation right now, you are looking elsewhere and you would
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: have the right to secure your future by moving on.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: The closest comparison is the Rebels. We saw them fold
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: and by and large a lot of those players are
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: snapped up by other Australian teams. Some of them went offshore,
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: but the pool of professionals of contracts in New Zealand
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: is going to shrink drastically if WINA falls over. The
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: other question is I don't know if it's a question
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: as such, but think back, this is from a results perspective,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: things have changed drastically, haven't they. The financial concerns were
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: always there, but last year Wina were riding such a high.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: They were on the cusp of the playoffs. Ardie Severe
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: was the best player in the competition named MVP before
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: the end of the regular season. The crowds were coming,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: the vibes were there, and then it's just all unraveled
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: from a results perspective, from a momentum perspective, very quickly.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: But it is the financials that's ultimately potentially going to
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: be there undoing.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: It is indeed, and you're right, they were riding high
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: last year. Artie was getting the wins, that big win
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: over the Blues at North Harbor Stadium. There are others
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: in Christy, the Hurricanes. Yeah, there was a real sense
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: of self belief last year that this team was building
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: and you know, obviously take our Artie sav and that's
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: always going to hurt things. But Look, if you've been
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: there this year, the crowds might have been bigger, the
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: results would have probably been better. I don't think they
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: would have been in the situation that they.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Are, but the ownership situation doesn't.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: That that doesn't change either, And they would have had
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: to pay Arti an extra season that maybe they couldn't
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: have afforded to, but knowing that he was only going
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: to be there for twenty five and twenty seven. So
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: there are all sorts of little things. But yeah, if
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: you're a player like a Miracle Filene, surely New Zealand
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: franchise is looking to him now. Player with leadership crudentials
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: some on international could slot in somewhere around the traps
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: in New Zealand franchise. He's a quality players and he's
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: he tupor Tayler, you know from Southland. Maybe the Highlanders
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: look at him for next year under Jammie Joseph.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think his own franchise will we look at them.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: I've heard whispers already that Miracle will probably go to Japan.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know if Artie's potentially opened a few doors
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: up there for him, but whether he goes, you wish
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: him well. Don't you His pathway from an unknown talent
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: in Samoa to captaining a Super Rugby franchise and he's
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: a pin up boy now for someone in rugby.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: He was he was picked by more in the Pacific,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: his talent, scouts of coaches at a combine and some
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: more out of club rugby and some more. He's where
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: it's worked well, but there are a number of issues
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: where it hasn't worked well for more in a Pacific.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Where does this leave Super Rugby for twenty twenty seven
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: and beyond that?
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: It's another massive kicking the balls from the credibility. When
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: did the Rebels fold? Was it two years ago? Now?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was twenty four? I think it was from
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: memory yea.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. See, you've had a couple of teams go under
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: in recent times and a competition that is struggling to
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: get fans through the door. I don't know why are
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: in a massive draw card, but an eleven team competition
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: wasn't ideal either, but it does nothing for your credibility
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: of your competition when you're losing teams, when there's uncertainty
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: around your competition, when you can't put together a draw
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: right now for next year, when there's questions about the
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: financial viability of the competition, the structure of it for
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: next year, How does it work, how does it look?
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: It doesn't do a lot for your brand, does it.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: No, it's certantly over the last ten years being in
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: a state of flux. And this is again another unwanted
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: chapter for Super Rugby. And this goes back to even
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: before the South African size left. You know, they tinker
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: with it so often, got to eighteen teams. It was bloated,
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: it was a horrible structure. There was too many teams
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: at one point. There was a confusing competition structure in
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: some ways. And now they have another thing to deal with.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Is it viable with ten teams going forward?
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: It probably has to be. Look, the on field product
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: is actually pretty good. But the other problem with Super
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: Rugby is it's just highly predictable, isn't it. There's a
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: real lack of jeopardy. The top six right now is
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: the same as last year. You could probably pick the
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: semi finals before the season starts. There's the odd upset.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: But even for you know, bolted on rugby fans, is
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: it generating the interest it needs?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: No, it's tired. It is as predictable. Look, you know,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: we know that the top Sex by and load there
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: might be you know, one team that exits and one
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: team that comes through, but other than that, they're bolted on.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: And they've been bolted on already and there are still
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: five six weeks of Super Rugby round robin to go.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's healthy for the state of the competition.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: And there is an inherent dip and interest, at least
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: on this side of the Tasman when New Zealand teams
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: are playing Australian sides, and that's because of the records
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: that New Zealand teams hold against the Australian sides. And
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: yeah they've picked up the odd win here or there,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: but until you really do have the jeopardy in those games,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: then it is going to continue to be a competition
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: where the derbies generate more, much more interest than the
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Blues playing the war Tars, Blues playing the fours, Hurricanes
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: playing the you know, the Brumbies. Even even though that's
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: been a rivalry of sorts and there's been an up
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: and down results, it's.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Still I've had great results against the Zealand teams this year.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: But again, you sit on Tuesday. They couldn't win the camp.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: They've been and everyone but the Hurricane. I stand by
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: there and this is where the competition is. So is
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: it feasible to continue Super Rugby?
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: I think it has to be. But the other point
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: to make is it pretty much has to be a
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: ten team competition because when the Rebels folded, there was
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: all sorts of talk and speculation about where they would
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: get a twelfth team from. They investigated the Huguardias, they
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: looked at potential on the West coast of America. But
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: a startup team would almost potentially be the death kniel
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: of this competition. Bringing in a whipping boy is not
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: what this competition needs only for it to fall over.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: I just can't see any viable option in that regard.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: So it has to be a ten team competition.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Our friend of the podcast, Christy Dorian, brought yesterday in
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: The Australian that stand the Australian broadcast is a keen
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: on a conference model for Super Rugby, which would split
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: the teams into two pools. Obviously you'd have probably have
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: the Druid jumping in with the Australian sides, and that
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: conference model would mean that Australian sides more easily make
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: the playoffs and particularly home games, you'd probably well ten teams.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how many you'd qualify for the playoffs,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: but potentially have to before we think so. But yeah,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I mean the guaranteed Australian sides you maybe have two
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: from each. That that again hurts the credibility I think
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: of the competition, double round robin could bigger possibility, but again,
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: as anyone you know, again, that would elongate the competition
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: by a little bit. You might be able eliminate a
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: bye week potentially or something there. But again it's is
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: anyone wanting to see the Highlanders play the Force in
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Perth and Dunedin twice in the season or even you know,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: even some of the you know games like internally in
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: New Zealand. Does it really hold muster to make that
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: a double round robin.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: I think there's a clash of ideals here that revolves
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: around revenue and broadcasters between what fan interests. I think
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: from my perspective, there only would need to be a
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: home and away once and it's a short hit, but
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: the interest is far more than dragging something out longer.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: But from a broadcast and revenue perspective. They want more games,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: So again there's that tension between interest and what would
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: engage fans, between where the money comes from.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, I mentioned this. Spoke with Limosopowanga, the former
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: All Blacks and some on International yesterday and new Stik
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: ZB and he said ten teams was a mickey mouse
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: competition for super rugby and promotion. And this is an
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: idea that comes up every so often of supercharged NPC competition. Now,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I think in fancy it sounds great. In reality it's
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: probably looks a little bit different because players think that
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks will be spread around. They'll all go
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: to their home franchise. As you have the Barrett brothers
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: playing for Tartanaki. You'll have players that grew up in
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: those regions going home and playing NPC. That only works
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: because they can do it for a short hit or
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: maybe outside their All Blacks commitments can align themselves with
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: an MPC team. It's a lot different for a competition,
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: and again the financials would be the question mark whether
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: that could generate the revenue required for New Zealand rugby.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't mind the idea. I think there's a
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: real patriotism that comes from the NPC that super rugby
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: has never really been able to capture, maybe in its
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: early years, but certainly not probably for the last decade.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: That there's not that staunch loyal following or honestly passion
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: that people have for their provinces. But a sole domestic
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: competition would not generate as much revenue because you don't
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: have multiple broadcasters, and maybe the players then wouldn't be
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: able to be paid as much because you're spreading them
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: around more, there's more team so that the pot is diluted,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: and then maybe more of those top players are actually
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: looking off shore, so there are spin off effects. But
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: I think from a interest point of view, it would
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: probably be.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: More following yep, And now I think I think it
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: genuinely would be. I think there would be more following and.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: You could have a crossover with Australia at the end
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: of it.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's the blubb Board Cup potentially coming down
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the line as well in a couple of years. But
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: it feels like that may be the recipe needed. Again,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: usual on rugby likely to say the financials just don't
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: stack up to deliver this competition, But at some point
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: you've got to figure out what fans want and what
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: the interest levels would be and how much blood is
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: left in the stone I guess of these New Zealand
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: franchises and indeed the competition which is losing teams. So
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: it feels like Super Rugby is at a very delicate
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: and perhaps a wee bit of a tipping point, doesn't
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: it It does?
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and look at that conference mode you talk about
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: the other thing we haven't discussed as an open free market.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: So Australians can come to New Zealand's any New Zealand
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: can go to Australia and it's a free for all.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: They can still be picked for their national teams. I
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: think that would boost the competitiveness of the competition. But
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: good luck telling the Crusaders to let Rich and Wong
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: and go when he comes home.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Or but again they could go to market and try
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and pick up Joseph Suliki or whether it might.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Be that would generate massive interest in a draft alone
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: about where players end up. But does Joseph suiely you
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: want to go and live in christ Church?
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't seems like a weird argument to make, Glenn. But again,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: yet that this is The thing is that this is
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: another one that's been floated as a possibility. But again,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: like you're not getting paid enough to go Yep, we'll
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: move over to that part of the world. You know,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: even if the force of willing to pay overs to
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: get you, you've still got to pick up your life
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: and move over to Western Australia and that may not
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: suit you, your family, whatever it might be. Whereas we're
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: talking about this offline before we recorded, in North American sports,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: you're getting paid so much money and you're at the
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: will of these team owners that you get told where
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: to go. And that's not the same in Southern Hemisphestal.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: It's not. No, you're comparing apples with oranges. We've discussed previously.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Maybe teams get to protect twenty six players and then
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: beyond that there's a draft. I think that's a viable option,
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: but I can't see a world in which it's a
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: complete free for all.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: No, no interesting times for a super Rugby will keep
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: across it here on Rugby Direct. Let's get into our
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: tipping us before we jump into the mail bag. Liam,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you have a two point lead in our tip and competition,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: so good on you.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: I've also rocketed up the fantasy have you. I think
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: I'm in the top ten now.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Because I forgot to do my team a couple of
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: weeks ago.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: McKinsey, mate, Okay, yeah, I.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Troubled captain Will Jordan two weeks ago against the drawer
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: and he distributed a lot that night, but didn't get
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: a lot of points. Unfortunately.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: It's going to be special when I take home the
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: championship winning Hurricanes jersey.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well you can pay for it out of your
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: own pocket. Blues Highlanders kicked us off seven o five
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: on a Friday night on Gold Sport on iHeartRadio. Blues
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: belted last week at on Ree Stadium and Wellington. Do
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: they return home and get the win over the Hohinders?
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: They do. The Cavalry's returning, aren't they Patrick two, Polo
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: two and others coming back for the Blues. I suspect
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: they do it pretty comfortably.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a definite steal to their full pack that
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: was missing last week when you put in Papaleisatusu into
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: the mix, and that elevates the starting side but also
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: elevates the bench because you can tweak it with those players.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: They've gone with a six two split on the bench
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: as well, which is interesting.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: Probably tells you where they're going to go at the Landers,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: doesn't it.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just can't see the Hunders coming out to
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Aqui and winning unfortunately for them. I think they've run
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: their race. Wartors more onea Pacifica in Sydney on Friday night.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: This is interesting, isn't it?
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: And this is a bit a bit of feeling around
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: this one there and whether when a team loses a
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: coach or there's a big off field issue brewing and
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Mowana's case, potentially counting down the days that they've got
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: a lot to play for they do.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Is there he willing to pick them? I'm not, no,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: are you I'm going to pick them? I think there
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: will be fire in the bellley. The Wartors have been
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: up and down this season. Yeah, I think I think
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: there will be a bit of a motion around Winer Pacifica.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so too, And there's probably a bit
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: of there might be a decent turnout.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Yep for that as well. Yeah. I noticed Prince Harry's
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: going that was announced before more wide to shutdowns, so
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: it's another thing he's ruined. Prince Harry Chiefs Hurricane seven
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: oh five on Saturday night Game of the Round again
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: we had one D two larg this week. We've now
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: conspired to get one v two again in Super Rugby
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: the Chiefs and second Hurricanes and first.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: Grand Final preview earlier calling it now.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And it's later in the night when the Force play
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: the Crusaders mate Chiefs Hurricanes.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Well, of course I'm going to go the Cane train,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: but I'm a bit nervous for this game. I think
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: the Chiefs. Chiefs have found a bit of form, getting
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: a few bodies back, Wallace to Titi back on the
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: bench for the first time in a long time, Quintupire
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: to center in an all black trial matchup I think
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: against Billy Proctor. So very intrigued to see how that
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: plays out. But on top of my Canes mate.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Luke Jacobson is one hundredths as well for the Chiefs
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: to play for them. They've got No. Two po vai
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: this week, which I think is a big loss and
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: that's why I'm also going to go with the Hurricanes
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: at coming in and getting the win away. Brumby's Fiji
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: and Drew and Canberra. Hard to see the drawer going
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: to sunny Canberra and picking up points there isn't it?
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, a bit of a contrast and which they won't enjoy.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: So I'll go the Brumby Stair.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: And forced Crusaders. A lot of outs of the Crusaders injuries,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: they would have Villian concussion protocols. Christian Leo Willy captaining
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: this week. George Bridges at center form the Crusader for
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: the Force. Zach Lomax is starting for them on the
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: right wing. They were disappointing in sloppy last week the
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Crusaders and now they've lost some more bodies. Can you
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: can you see which way do you see this one going?
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go the Force, he Earliott. Okay, that
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Crusaders team is extremely lightweight. You've even gone no Hopem's
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: on the bench. I think it's a great risk after Yeah,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: there's a massive injury outs, but I didn't like what
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: I saw for the Crusaders last week, and Perth can
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: be a bit of a bogey place to go. The
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Force have been better this year, so big upset on
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: the cards.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going to the Crusaders, but I think it'll be tight.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Will Jordan out for three to five weeks so that
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: rules them out of the opener at the New Stadium
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: next week, but also some big derby's coming up, and
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: we've seen what the Crusaders without Will Jordan, not only
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: this year but previous couple of years. That might be
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: enough to draw a line through them this season if
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: they can't find a way to win without him and
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: the next week while then I can't see them winning
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: the comp.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, big outs. I think they'll go to them all
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: and try and use that against the Force. But I've
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: always liked the Force, Elliot.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, You've always been a big Force Gype. You bought
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: a jersey when we're over there last year, you had
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: the Force Camp everything like that. You can get in
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: touch and follow us in the fantasy as well, as
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: you mentioned on Rugby Direct a podcast. Time now though
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: to jump into the mail bag, producer Mark has slid
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: into the studio. Producer Mark, you have something out of
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: the mailbag for us, Yes, thank you, Elliott.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: This is coming from our man Floyd over in Sydney.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: Thanks for emailing and Floyd through nine rounds of Super
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: Rugby less than seventy days away from that first All
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: Blacks test of the year. What's your Blacks fifteen looking
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: like for that first game at France. I believe even
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: christ isn't it. We will start with our guest and
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: studio Liampe.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Great to meet you and see you. Finally, it's right
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: great to great to be be back with a bionic arm.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of a lot of equipment that you
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: brought in with you.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: It's a hell of a nick. Sorry, maybe we should
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: put that out there for the world to see it.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go fairly stock standard Ethan the grouts,
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Cody Taylor, Fletcher Newle with Tyler L. Lomax not playing
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: a lot this year to provide in great form locks interesting.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: I'm going to back to Scott Barratt to come back
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: and get in some sort of form, so I'm gonna
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: leave him in the starter's capacity, with Fabian Hollands out
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: for the whole year. Patrick two Polocho hasn't played any rugby.
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: Josh Lord has been in good form. I'm gonna promote
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: Devin Flanders for his debut blindside. I think sue rugby
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: form has to count for up me. He's been knocking
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: on the door for a number of years. That blindside
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: role needs to be solved and I think Simon Parker
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: has been a bit indifferent this year for the Chiefs.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: He doesn't offer as much as Devon from an offensive perspective.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: Alreadie openside. I'm going Peter Luckeye at number eight. He
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: was brilliant last year. He's played predominantly eights. Cam Roy
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: guards ten is very tough. Rich Warner is not available yet,
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: so I'm gonna stick with Bowden. Not entirely convinced about that.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Jeordi at twelve, Quinti Pie at thirteen, Caleb Clark on
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: the left, and you know what, I'm going to pick Forehei.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Before he goes to newcast.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, get him in there, mates, he's not going I'm
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: putting the foot down right on the rights. And Will
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Jordan at fullback.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, I am similar across the board. Thank you Floyd
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: for your question. I think this first at least this
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: first run on team will be fairly standard. The squad
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: might have a few different players in there, but there's
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: so little time together for Dave Rennie. He's obviously got
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: a mission before the World Cup to get these players
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: up to speed, but he's got so little time with
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: him before the first Test that I think it'll be
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: about keeping things simple and we might see some more
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: variations as time goes on throughout the course of the year.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: So my front row is the same de Groot, Taylor Newell.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: My second row is slightly different. I've gone Lord and Barrett,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Scott Barrett, I believe. Yeah, I'm backing him to come
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: back and just int form. I could have gone to
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: it a lot too, but again he hasn't played with
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Seeing him this weekend for the first time two po
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Vis at blindside flanker for me.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm not sold on him as a sex
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: I think he lacks a better pace.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not sold on him six either, but I'm not
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: sure about Flant like I really I think Flanders having
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: exceptional season. He would be in my squad at this point,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: but not in this first team of the year. So
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: via open side, Flanka Satiti at number eight, Roy gard
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: A half back, Boden Barrowed at ten. Did think about Love,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: but I think he's got to work his way and
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: see a bit more from him the Super Rugby season.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: But I think we will see Rubin Love at ten
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: a bit later in the year for the All Blacks potentially.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, needs a crack there.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's gonna interesting to see how Dave Rennie
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: approaches that. Caleb Clark and Caleb tungkytower to Caleb's and
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: my wings, midfielders barrot In Supier, and fullbackers Will Jordan.
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, fairly similar.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think this first team, this is run on
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: team or the twenty three of the year, is going
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: to be fairly straightforward from Dave Rennie. I might be
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: completely wrong.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in the wider squad there will be
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: some players that he picks on work great and character,
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: maybe some guys that are not necessarily on the radar.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: We saw that during his time with the Chiefs, so
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: I think there will be a couple of surprises. But
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: from a starting perspective, you're right, they're not going to
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: have a lot of time and a lot of those
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: players picked themselves.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it'd be great to go, Yep, you're gonna
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: try Ruben Love at team. You're gonna do this, You're
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: gonna do that. You've still gotta beat France, and yeah,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: it might be a second string France that comes, but
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: there is a job to do. We've got eh Lee
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: the following week and with all due respect to your
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Italian heritage that is, and the way they've been playing,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: they've been very good, but there can be some changes
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: for that week before you got Island in week three.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, the South African Tour on the horizon
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: has those midweek games where you are going to have
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: a chance to give fringe guys game time, and that's
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: hugely beneficial because there's been too many examples Ruben Love
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: stands out of players who have sat idle and not
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: had enough opportunities in recent times at that level.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And look, I know the argument is made
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: around the lack of Tier two teams that the All
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Backs have played over the last two years, but you
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: do need to text some risks at some point as well,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: so we'll see how that unfolds. We might do a
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: proper all black squad draft or a picking a bit
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: closer to the announcer in which I believe is around
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: the end of Super Rugby as per that'll do us
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: for rugby, Dric. There is another question the Malbury that
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: I do want to get to, but Tim has been
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: asking around Ruben loveve Dang Carter. I do need to
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: run the stats, so I'm going to try and dig
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: into that before. You will get to that in a
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: week or two here on Rugby Direct, but you can
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: get in touch with us Rugby Direct at newstalk zb
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: dot co dot z's great to see you back in studio, Liam,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: don't be a stranger.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: I won't be punching you with the left hand this year.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: No, that's right. You know we're going to be safe
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: from injury on tour, which is really good for me.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks Mark Kelly for producing. We will see you back
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: after the weekend of Super Rugby. Enjoy your Rugby could
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: see Oh Heaven Health is her book today. Stay in
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: the game
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talks EDB, listen live on air
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: go with our podcast on iHeartRadio.