Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #103: Dr. Craig Harper Gives Us A Deer Habitat Master Class

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Wired To Hunt Podcast #103: Dr. Craig Harper Gives Us A Deer Habitat Master Class · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. In this episode one and three
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: tan the show, we're joined by Dr Craig Harper, one
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: of the nation's foremost experts on deer habitat management, and
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: we're talking food plots, timberstand improvement, old fields, and much
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: much more. Hey, the guys and gals, and welcome to
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sick
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: and Gear, and today we're joined by someone who I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: guarantee you're going to enjoy hearing from. I first heard
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Dr Craig Harper back probably six or seven years ago
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: at a Qutum a Dear Steward course, and then since
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: then I've heard him speak at a number of other
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: deer and habitat related events and seminars, and every single
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: time I've walked away from these, you know, seminars, having
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: learned a ton and haven't really enjoyed myself as well.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Dr Craig Harper is a Professor of Wildlife Management in
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the Extension Wildlife Specialist in the Department of Forestry, Wildlife
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and Fisheries at the University of Tennessee. He's also a
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: renowned authority on all things dear Habitat. He was named
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the two thousand thirteen QTUM a Professional Deer Manager of
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: the Year, and on top of that, he's also the
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: author of the highly claimed guide to Wildlife Food Plots
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: in Early Successional Plants. So today we're going to pick
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Craig's brain on all things dear Habitat and deer habitat improvement.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: But before we dive into all that, Mr cost Dan Johnson,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: do you have any important updates from this past week?
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Did you kill a turn yet? I did not kill
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: a turkey, but you did? I did. Yeah, I want
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: to hear that. I want to hear that story. Oh man,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: it was a mess, to be honest, So I'll make
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: it as short and sweet as it possibly can. But
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: we we headed down to Ohio this weekend to do
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: some work on the property and a turkey hunt, me
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and and Buddy josh Um. So I got there Friday night,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Saturday morning, we got in started hunting and there are
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of birds gobbling, but couldn't get them coming
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: off the roost. So eventually, after a couple of hours
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: just been walking around, had a couple of actually kind
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: of relatively close calls while running gunning, but just couldn't
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: quite make it happen. So then for the rest of
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: the afternoon we trimmed out lanes for some of our
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: tree stands, check some stands, stuff like that. UM went
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: back out in the evening and moved our little pop
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: up blind to this corner of the farm where you
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: can see into like all the different open areas on
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: the property. UM, this is one angle where you can
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: seem like four different set into this field. Otherwise, we
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: blocked off and our plan was basically to sit there
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: and watch and just hope we might catch some birds
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: moving across one of these open areas and try to
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: talk to them and get them convinced to come in.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: And it was really windy and it's supposed to rain,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: so I didn't have the highest of hopes that anything
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: would hear us. UM, but I figured at least here
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: we could see things and lo and behold. After sitting
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: there for like an hour, here come three birds, probably
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: like I don't know, five yards away, cutting across this field.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure how far it was but very far away,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: and the head out across this field, and I was
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: kind of thinking, well, I guess just throw out some
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: noise and hopefully can get their attention. But like, yes,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: it was really windy, so I just started squawking away,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: just trying to do anything just to catch their attention.
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  Speaker 1: And it seemed like they heard, because they stopped, perked
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: their heads up and looked my way. But they just
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  Speaker 1: kept slowly feeding across the field going the other direction,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: and they just milled around to the other end of
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: this field for like twenty minutes, and we kept on thinking,
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  Speaker 1: how they're gonna come this way? Are they gonna leave?
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  Speaker 1: And we were debating if they if they go around
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: the corner, should we grab our stuff and just sprint
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: down the field and try to close the gap. But
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: eventually they just slowly turned and started feeding our way
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  Speaker 1: down the middle of this finger of just basically what
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  Speaker 1: was cut beings from last year, And over the course
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of the next hour, maybe hour and a half these
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  Speaker 1: three times, is slowly, slowly pecked their way down the
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  Speaker 1: field towards us. Never once in a while I do
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: a little call and they look my way and keep
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  Speaker 1: moving that direction. So fast forward, like I said, like
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: an hour. They finally it's like, wow, this is really
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: gonna happen. I can't. We've been sitting here watching these
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: birds like an hour and a half, and now it
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: does look like we might get a shot. So me
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: and my buddy Josh from the blind and they circle
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: around us, um instead of coming straight and they circle
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: out wide. And now we're coming in from our left
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  Speaker 1: side and I can't get a shot because the blind,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: the windows of the blind aren't open that way. Um.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: So basically now they're in it like I don't know,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: thirty five yards or so, and they're getting a little nervous.
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  Speaker 1: And so now at this point they got to thirty
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  Speaker 1: yards or just inside that and they're about turned to
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  Speaker 1: like bust way. You don't you ever see that where
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  Speaker 1: they kind of take a couple of steps and then
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  Speaker 1: they spin around the other way and they take a
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: couple of steps and spin around. They're kind of jumpy.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I was like, Josh, just take a shot, just just
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: take we're trying to get a double. But I was like,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: just just get your bird, because I you know, I
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: already killed one in Michigan, but he hadn't got to
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: get out and hunt yet. So he took a shot
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: and we don't know what happened, but but he missed
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: and they go taken off, and by the time they
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: go taken off, they didn't really run that far out,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: and so Josh was trying to get another shot at
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: the bird he had taken the shot at the first
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: And while that's happening, I see that they are still
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: within shooting ranch. So I pulled down this other window
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: on the other side, pull my gun out and take
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: a shot at one as this bird's running off and
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I rolled him and Josh took another shot and he
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: missed his, so so he was really bummed, and we
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: were all confused. Like I was like, was the bird
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: that I shot? The bird that you shot? And he's like, no, no,
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  Speaker 1: you you you took yours out the first shot, the
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: one I was the one I shot at. He never
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: never connected, So we don't know if someone's going on
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: with this gun. But it was chaos. We went running
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: out of the blind, chasing after the bird, and um,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: you know, I got one down. He was nice Tom
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: and I was glad to have it, but I was
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: I was really just bummed for Josh because he this
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: was his first time out this season because of other
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: commitments and stuff, and I really wanted him to get one,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: and he just got struggle with bad luck. Kind of
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: the same thing. Unfortunately, exact same thing happened to us
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: last year. We had a double and I don't know
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: his guns not patterning. Well, I guess we gotta we
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: gotta check it out and figure out what's going on,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: because he was super bummed, and it kind of took
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: some of the excitement of my bird because I just
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: wanted him to get one. So nonetheless, it was nice
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: to get some some more meat in the freezer. And
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: it was a crazy hunt. And the next day we
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: went back out and just couldn't get anything to come
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: in again. So it was a fun weekend. Got trail
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: cameras up, like I said, got some work done on
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the tree stands. So now I'm just we're gonna you know,
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  Speaker 1: I had out west for a couple months, and I'll
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: come back in August and go back to the property,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: check the cameras and hopefully Junkyard JJ are back. Well.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Congratulations and good luck. Thank you, sir. I. Speaking of
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: trail cameras, you proposed a trail camera bet to me
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: on Twitter the past week, but you never responded to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: what I proposed as steaks? What what that you can?
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: If I win, I get to come hunt in Michigan
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and if you win, you get to come come up
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: my Iowa farm. I think that's perfectly fair, perfectly fair
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: and very very equal prizes there. I wonder what the
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: other hunters would say if this guy pulled up in
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: another hunter pulled up, I was like, yeah, I lost
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: the bet. This guy gets to hunt here this year.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: It's just tough. You gotta I gotta deal with it.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. Let's think of something else fair enough,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: But but we are on for a bet, right, We're
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: gonna do the same same rule, same thing as we
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: did last year. Uh, Velvet, do you want to have
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: do you want to have a two part bet? Excuse me? Explain? Okay,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: two part bet, one in velvet and one hard horn
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I like that. Okay, So, uh, biggest velvet buck take
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: surprise and biggest hard horn buck takes surprise. So for
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: the hard horn buck, are waiting until the end of
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the season then to do that one? Yep? Well you
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: let's let's say yeah, at the end of your season
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: in the end of my season, which is somewhere around
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: what January, first week of January. Yeah, so let's say
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: mid January, we will reconvene for the hard horn, but
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: we can we can do the first part in uh,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: let's say September, mid September, after the velvet comes off.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I like it. Let's I don't know. I'm I don't
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: have an Iowa hunt this year, so my locations for
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: quality bucks will be going down, but I'm think of
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: a cross for Ohile. I'm willing to get into it.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: And uh, I was close last year, so it could happen.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: You were close. You were close. It was uh, I
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: bet you when coming you know, coming down to it.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Those two bucks were really close to the same size. Yeah,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: it would have been interesting if if either one of
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: us could have killed one to get it, to get
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: a tape on them and see. But either way, cool deer,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: beautiful deer. So I actually tried contacting the Boone and
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Crockett club official scores to take a look at those pictures,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: and just all I said was, you know, hey, I
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: just want your best professional guests on these two deer
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: and what they score. And I showed him two pictures
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: of each buck, and they never responded to me. It
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: was worth a shot. Oh that's funny. Well, I'm excited
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: to get the summer kicked up. I always get really
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: pumped up about the summer velvet pictures and velvet scouting,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: getting video of velvet bucks out in the fields. That's
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: still a lot of fun. That's right. I'm not quite
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: done with spring yet. I still I'm still going out.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I found a ton of mushrooms last night, which would
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: have been Monday night, and uh so I'm gonna eat
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: those tonight Tuesday night. And this weekend I'm Saturday and Sunday,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Saturday and Sunday. This this week is I'm just here. Oh,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon, you're like a little brother the U. Now
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: I've lost my train of thought. You were talking about
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: this weekend Saturday and Sunday. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: go turkey hunting this weekend again. Friday or Saturday morning
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: and Sunday morning. Those are the probably the last two
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: times that I'll be able to get out because I'll
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: be gone on business the following week and I don't know,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I think the season I might get one more week weekend.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Get closes on the twenty second MAYWOD is when the
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: season closes here in Iowa, So we'll see what happens.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: I gotta make it happen. You know, you you did
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: your you did your good deed for the season, and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: you got your your wife and stepped out of bourb
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: and now's your turn. Well maybe my buddy, I'm I'll
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: be hunting on my buddy's property and he's never gotten
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: a turkey before, so my goal is to try to
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: get him one. So maybe maybe I get out and
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: get it done. Maybe I don't, but uh, we will see.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's just as much fun when you
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: get to be there, like guiding and calling and stuff.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I get pumped about that. I think last year I
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: was able to quote unquote guide on three or four
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: different kills. Last year that was awesome, And this year
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: it hasn't worked out. But but it's it's a blast,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: but it's it's coming to an end. Turkey season was
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: a it was a wild ride for a lot of people.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like some people start so early these these days,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: like February seasons at early March seasons, and we're slowly
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: getting to this next phase of the year. And and
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: now I'm working on some food plot stuff. I've been
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: out spraying food plots and I gotta plant some stuff
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: here in late in May, I'm gonna be putting in,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: um a food plot screen hopefully if if ever this
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: spot dries out enough. We've been getting so much rain
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: we did too recently. But that's that's an exciting time
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: of year. And that's what we're talking about today, I guess,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: is food plots and habitat projects and different things like that.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: And I don't know you've probably have you ever heard
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Dr Craig Carver before, Dan, just a little bit um
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: from the information that you sent me yesterday, I did.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I did a lot of reading on that. Um I
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: shouldn't say a lot, but I became familiar of what
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: he does, and I'm looking forward to it for the
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: pure fact that hopefully the information that we get today
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: and through what I read, helps my very first food
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: plot improve, you know, like be better than if I
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: didn't go, you know, if I just killed the grass
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and three seed in the ground. Yeah, yeah, they're they're definitely.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you will learn things that are gonna help
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: you to make sure you do something better than that. Uh,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: he's just a very interesting speaker, and I've I've seen
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: him a number of different events, and he's just just
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: a guy I could sit and listen to for a
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: long time and very very very notable. So I think
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: we're in for a treat. And I suppose with all
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: that being said, we should just make that happen. So
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: let's take a quick break for a word from our
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: partners at Sick of Gear, and then we'll give Dr
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Craig Harper a call. So, as most of you know
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: are good friends at sick Gear are the ones who
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: keep this show on the air, and our Sikest story
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: series will be continuing next week, but today I wanted
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: to share a slightly more traditional plug for these guys
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: you know. Over the past year so we've shared all
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: sorts of interesting tidbits in this sickst segment, from the
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: recent story series to our specific product related tips and
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: gear advice from Don Zuck, But not too often do
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I personally talk about what I like about Sick of
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  Speaker 1: Gear and why I've been wearing their stuff for six
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: or seven seasons now, I think, and I guess that's
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: partly because there's such a long line of specific things
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I could mention, and that would honestly just be boring.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: You know. Yes, I love the fit and finish and
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: quality of their gear. Yes, I love the fact that
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: they utilize, you know, the best technologies and materials out there. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: I love the attention to detail. I really love the
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  Speaker 1: really meeting the actual needs of serious hunters. But maybe
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: maybe what I appreciate the most about SIKA is that
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like they've developed a culture and a tribe
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: of hunters that I just one percent feel like I'm
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a part of, you know, the sick could tribe as
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: they call it. It's full of guys and girls who
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: love to hunt, who just put it all out there
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and who are absolutely sick for it. And that, my friends,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: is something I can relate with. So if you're sick
• 14:59
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• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and try this stuff out. I don't think you'll regret it.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: And now, without further ado, let's get back to the
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: show and give Dr Craig Harper a call. All right
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: with us Now on the line is Dr Craig Harper.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Welcome to show. Craig. Nice to be here. Mark. Yeah,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I was talking just a little bit ago about how
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I've been able to hear you speak at a Dear
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Steward course the number of years ago, and in a
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: couple of different seminars and habitat days, and and every
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: time I just learn a ton and I also just
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: get a kick out of here. And you share your
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: hunting stories and food plot stories and stuff. So I
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: know our listeners are are in for a treat today.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: But I guess for those that aren't familiar with who
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: you are and what you do, could you share with
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the audience to a quick bit about your professional background
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and what you do today related to deer inhabitat. Sure,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I'm a professor in the Department of Forestry, Wildlife and
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Fisheries at the University of Tennessee and um the extension
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Wildlife specialists, and so my primary responsibilities are to assist
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: natural resource professionals, whether that be state wildlife biologists in
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: our cs of course, extension agents throughout the state, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: others even beyond the state. We do a lot of
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: in service training in other states as well assist them
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: in both wildlife programming and with recommendations related to both
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: population management and and habitat management. And UH often use
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: the word we when I say we we did this,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: or we went out and did this or collected this information,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: what have you? Uh. Most often I'm talking about my
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: graduate students and technicians that work with me. Of course,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I would have very little to share with others out
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: across the country if it weren't for some really hard
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: work and graduate students who are out there collecting all
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: these data. And because i'm the extension Whilie specialists operate
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: a little differently than a professor whose appointment is teaching
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: in the classroom or strictly research and that of course
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: I keep maintained and direct graduate students. But as soon
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: as the information is coming in, uh many times even
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: before it's analyzed, and of course I share this with
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the audience. Look, these are preliminary data, but here's what
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: we're fighting. And that's fun for me, and I think
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of fun for the audience because they
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: get a look at what we're doing with regard to
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: uh the science and research. And UH it's fresh off
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: the press and sometimes even before it hits the press,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: so UH that's always fun to provide them just up
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: to date information on what we're doing and a little
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: bit about my interest. Um. I'm a manager at heart,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: always have been, growing up on farm and growing up
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and always spending time outside and wanted
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to be a manager. But life has its twist and turns,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and as I was in school, was eventually got into
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: a master's program, and then that led on to a
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: pH d program and before you know it, you know
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I'm working as a professor at a university rather than
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: sitting on a tractor working on a w m A
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: as a wildlife manager. So my interests remained the same.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And what I'm getting at is the research I conduct
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: is always management based. It's always research that is designed
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: to help wildlife managers, and that may be professional wildlife
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: managers or it may be landowners who want to manage
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: their land for wildlife. So that's the approach I take.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little about the types of
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: research projects and issues that you're doing. I remember reading
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: about some different things you've done when it comes to
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: food plots and studying different types of forages and things
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: like that. But I guess could you elaborate on that
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: what specific types of things are you guys actually collecting
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: that on. We have done lots of things over the years,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and I will summarize a little bit of what we
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: have done and what we are doing currently. Of course,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: we've done a lot of work with food plots, and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: for I think it was about twelve years or so,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: we maintained several sites and what we will call cafeteria
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: style plots, and this was done throughout Tennessee, but we
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: also occasionally had some sites in other states as well.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: But we looked at all kinds of forages, and for example,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: we might have a two or three acre field and
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: that be separated into tent acre blocks that are planted
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: two separately to twenty two twenty five different species, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: we would maintain exclusion cages in those individual units, and
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: we would clip the forages inside the cages after each month,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: and then we would have one cage that would remain
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: for the entire growing season. So we could track things
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: like what dear preferred first, second, third, fourth, right on
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: down the line. We monitored how much forage deer eight
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: each month. We had areas that had high deer densities,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: medium deer densities, low deer densities. We began to look
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: at lots of different mixtures. What happens when we mix
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: this together or that, what grows best together? How many
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: pounds you know, what rate of each should be added,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: um which herbicides can we use to get rid of
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: these weeds that are you know, coming into our plots,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and then which mixtures are well suited because you can
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: or cannot use herbicides with this forage, but you can
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: with that forage. So in essence, we spent you know,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: twelve years at least, and then even longer than that
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: with some of the other herbicide stuff, and what I
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: would call putting a puzzle together as to which forages
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: were best to use in different areas that deer preferred,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: that withstood grazing pressure or did not, that would be
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: complementary in a mixture, and for which you could fight
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: various weeds. So that's the food plot research. And we
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: also did food plot research as related to either forest management,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: where we would implement practices in forests such as uh
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: different types of harvests and thinning within without prescribed fire
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: within without different herbicide applications, and compare that to food
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: plot plannings. UM. We've done a lot of firework both
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: in woods and in fields or early successional areas. We've
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: done a lot of work looking at which plants deer eat,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: in which plants they don't eat, in early successional areas,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: how to manage those areas, whether by disking or burning,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: or different herbicide applications, mowing, drum chopping, on and on.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: A lot of stuff has been done over the years.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: With that, of course, we've looked at wildlife response to
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: some of these things, whether it's especially Northern Bababwai, done
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: quite a bit of work with with Northern Bababwai, whitetail, deer, elk,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: wild turkey, rough grouse, UM work with grazing UH, especially
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: with native grass systems, the effects of grazing native grasses
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: on grassland songbirds and and also on on Northern Babapwai
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: it uh. And then of course herbicide work both in
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: early succession whereas food plots and in the woods, whether
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: that be broadcast applications or stem applications in the woods
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: with regard to timber stand improvement. So both what I
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: would say woods fields and food plots, a lot of
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: different applied management approaches. Wow, I have a I have
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: a quick question. And I know you're on a roll.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: We're going in the right direction. But this next question
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: is kind of for just my curiosity. But when you
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: use the term wildlife research, are you, guys um when
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: you do your research, are you looking at all types
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: of animals, all types of wildlife from you know, the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: biggest animal, which might be a deer, all the way
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: down to bugs and birds and squirrels and you know,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: smaller mammals. There are projects that do that, and and
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I have been involved in some of those and and
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: have led some of those. But most of what I
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: do is strictly habitat based of For example, we might
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: we have an ongoing project right now where we're looking at, uh,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: the effects of field management on habitat for different species.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: All right, so we know what represents habitat for grasshopper, sparra,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: northern bob, white white tail, deer, phons, wild turkey, polts,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: eastern cotton tail, etcetera. I know what represents habitat for
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: those species and what is not. And we know what
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: the vegetation measurements should and should not be for those
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: species because that work has been done and it's published
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in the literature. But the questions that remain is how
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: should we manage some of these areas to get the
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: composition and structure of vegetation that these species prefer. When
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: you put, for example, radio transmitters on these species and
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: follow around, follow them around and see where they go
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and where they don't go, does that make sense? Yes?
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: It does? So sorry, were you going to continue? Well,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I'll just say one other thing. Of of course, research
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: is always uh metered by funding, and so it doesn't
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: cost as much money for us to go out and
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: look at habitat management practices and just measure the effects
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: on the vegetation, the forage, etcetera, whether whether for cover
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: or forage, as it does for us to go out
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and do that and spend many, many, many, many thousands
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: of dollars on radio transmitters, trapping these animals, paying people
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: to follow them around, etcetera. And the size of the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: area that you need to look at is is infinitely
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: greater when you're looking at you know, the home range
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of a wild herkey, or the nesting territory size of
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: an indigo bunning or a field spare or whatever. The
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: case may be as opposed as opposed to just looking
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: at the vegetation effects. So you know, the size and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: complexity of the project is always much greater when you're
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: involving um home range habitat use of different species. Interesting. So,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: so you had talked a little bit about a second
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: ago about you know, different types of ideal composition of
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: habitat and all the different um you know, needed aspects
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: of habitat for certain species. So you know, let's talk
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: about deer, of course. Can you describe to us the
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: ideal habitat situation for deer, the composition of of you know,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: timber versus early successional habitat versus, etcetera, etcetera. Can you
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: describe what that ideal habitat would look like? I think
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that might be helpful for our listeners to compare that
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: to maybe what they do or don't have. Yes, and
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna make this really really simple, and I hope
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: people will appreciate that. And it's not going to be
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: what most people will be looking for. Um. Most people
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: are probably going to expect me to say something like
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: it should be uh, mature forest, young forest or brushy
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: cover ten percent early successional cover and five percent food
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: plot or you know whatever something like that. That is
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: not the case. Period ideal habitat for a white tailed
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: deer is an area where they have sufficient food and
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: sufficient cover to obtain maximum body size and are able
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to reach age where they can represent and show their
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: maximum atler size. It's as simple as that. Now, think
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: about this, How could I give you a certain percentage
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: of woods or fields or anything else When we can
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: go into Wisconsin where there's lots of Boone and Crockett
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: books and the vegetation composition is totally different than if
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: we drop down into south central Kansas and there's no
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: forest whatsoever, and so the mixture of forest to field
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: and brush and all that. You can't say that it
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: needs to have certain percentage of this, certain percentage of that.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Just look at it as a as a much more
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: simple concept, adequate cover, adequate food to allow them to
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: reach maximum body size and maximum matler size if they
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: reach you know, an appropriate age. Um. You just can't
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: really look at it any other way. And then it's
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: funny because I was in a conversation similar earlier today
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: where someone was talking about where they needed x amount
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: of mature forest in Pennsylvania for acron production and uh
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: you know the the uh forbes that are growing in
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: the wood woods during the springtime, how nutritious they were, etcetera, etcetera.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: We only get a good acren year about uh one
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: or two years out of five. If mature woods are
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that important, then what are the deer deer and doing
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: during those three or four years when we don't hardly
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: have any acrons? What about those deer in Kansas where
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: there's there's no acrons in certain portions of Kansas, no
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: oak trees. How about South Texas? Ever seen any mature
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: forest that in South Texas? You've seen lots of big
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: deer down there though, So again, you can have big
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: deer with mature woods if the mature woods are managed
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: in a certain way and if there's other vegetation types
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: along with the mature woods. But you don't have to
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: have mature forest in order to have uh good deer habitat.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: That makes a lot of sense. My question then, is, though,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: how does someone go about auditing their own property or
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: trying to quantify, you know, what the the right move
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: is on their own unique piece. How do you go
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: about figuring out what that optimum level of food versus
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: cover to manage and and get your dear to you
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: the best health is possible into the adequate care and capacity.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: How do how can the average guy go about figuring
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: that out? Because it kind of seems like a from
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: high level makes a lot of sense, but how do
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I actually do it on the ground. Yeah, that's it's
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: a good question, but it's very complex, and that every
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: property is different and different regions are very different, and dear,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: home ranges are going to vary at least somewhat from
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: uh place to place. But in a nutshell, when I
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: go to a property and I'm helping someone who is
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: truly concentrating on deer, the first thing I identify is,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you know, number one, their objectives, and and then what
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: is owned the property with respect to the habitat at composition?
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: You know how much woods, how much fields, how much agriculture,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: et cetera. And then look at the forage base, how
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: much forage is available naturally occurring forage, what's going on
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: around the property. It needs to fit in with what
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the person is doing on this property. That's always a limitation. Uh,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: you know, if you have five or eight thousand acres,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: that's one thing, but especially for you know, the poor
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: soul is trying to manage, you know, twenty eight acres,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty acres, even three hundred acres whatever,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're highly susceptible to what the neighbors
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: are doing. So that cannot be overstated how important it
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: is to look at what the neighbors are doing, try
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: to work with them, and try to look at what's
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: being provided outside your property boundaries, and then what you
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: need to provide inside the property boundaries. And that's really
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: important to look at an aerial photo and see, Okay,
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: where is the cover, where is the food? Lots of
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: times where the cover is you actually don't need cover there.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: You would be better off with food there. And and
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: many times where there is food or where there is
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: some kind of field, really you would be better off
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: with some good cover there. So think about the arrangement
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: of cover versus food, what's going on on surrounding properties.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: And then we dropped down at the property level and
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: get outside and look around on the ground. And one
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: of the first things that I do is, of course
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: ask them about any records they may have on dear
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: density whether that be uh harvest records or whether that
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: be of course, some survey that they've done with cameras
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: or whatever else. Get a feel for how many deer there.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Look at the plants. I can look at various plants
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and see which ones are eating and which ones are not,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: and the extent to which there they are eating. Obviously
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: you're gonna see, you know, uh, get some feel with
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: the density of tracks around in certain areas. You know,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: you get a feel for about how many deer are
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: talking about. And then you start looking at, uh, what
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: the condition of the understory is in the woods. You know,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: if I'm in the eastern United States where there are woods,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: what kind of plants are there, what kind of forage
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: is there, what kind of cover is under there, for example,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: for for falling. Uh Usually usually it's it's it's poor,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: too bad, and there's lots of work that could be
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: done to the woods to improve that. And then you
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: get outside the woods and you look around in fields,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: and so often there either hay fields or they're just
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: old fields with a base of non native perennial grasses,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: whether that's tall fescue or brom grass, or if you're
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: down south bermuda grass or whatever the case may be.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: You've got to get rid of that. You get rid
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: of that, and by default, instantly you've increased the forage
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: availability by at least tenfold just by killing the the
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: unneeded grass that is keeping everything else from growing. So
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: there's lots of little simple things that can be done
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to really increase the quality of forage and the quality
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: of vegeta of of cover that's available on the property.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: So with the like probably rambled a little bit there,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: but it's that's a complex question with you know, lots
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: of ifs and the ends right, So what you're kind
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: of what you're trying to say, there is no magic
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: equation like X plus Y equals z type of scenario.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: But in order to you know, you do your research
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: projects and in order to hit your goal of you know,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Z equals big racks, big bodies, you know, the maximum
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: potential for those two things. How much trial and error
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: can one person expect to have to go through or
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: upping something or taking something down a notch to to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: reach that maximum potential? Not trying to be facetious, but uh,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: most likely for the rest of their life or as
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: long as they're in this um I tell people all
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the time. Habitat management is not an event that then
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: it is a way of life. The vegetation is going
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: to continue to change until Gabriel blows his horn, and
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: you've got to be there to manage that and get
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: that steered in a direction that is suitable for that species.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: And you know, for example, we go back to the
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: to the woods or open area and we're in you
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: know again, uh, pick on south central Kansas. That's a
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: really nice place to be, but you're out there. Another
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: factor is, Okay, what is the current land use? Are
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: they grazing it? Are they haying it? Uh? Does the
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: landowner have an uncle that's using it? For this? That
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: there's always a restriction on some property. I have no
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: idea how many properties I've been to a lot all
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: over the place. I have yet to visit one property.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I've never visited one ever that there isn't some kind
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: of restriction that keeps you from going full bore as
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: far as you can go. Most often it's money, but
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: almost as often it's something related to money, such as, well,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: we really need to grow this, and we got to
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: grow hay over here, and we need cows over there,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: and we really like to see those woods in this condition.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Or uh uh, my brother he really likes to mow.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: He likes to see it clean. There's always always something,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: and it's usually uh, you know, somewhat difficult process to
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: to try and work around what at or those some
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: things are. But as long as you have good cover
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: that is relatively dense from about four or five feet
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: tall and down, and you have lots of good food,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: and it's placed strategically both with regard to holding the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: deer own your property and with regard to your hunting's success,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: all of which is really figured out on an aerial
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: photo rather than on the ground at least initially. Uh,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you're going to be in good shape. So if anybody
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: tries to tell you what percentage of woods or what
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: percentage of of fields that you need to be optimum,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I would look at that with a raised eyebrow and uh,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: and then start to question it a little bit. So
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: so I guess, continuing down this line of thought, then
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: if if I'm a property owner, I'm looking at my property,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: I think if I had to really dumb it down,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: oversimplify and correct me, if you think these are not
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: the right categories. But if I had to oversimplify the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: categories of habitat that I might want to consider, and
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: we'll just assume this is a property that has all
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: the buff Let's say there's timber management, maybe early successional habitat,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: and then potentially food plots. If we were to break
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: it down in those three categories, which would you say
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: is the most important just on average to start thinking about,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people when they think
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: habitat projects, a lot of people jump to food plots.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: That's kind of the sexy thing to think about and
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to do and plan and put in. Is that where
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: you think someone should jump first? And I know this
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: is going to come down to a you know, parcel
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: by parcels all you know, different for each person. But
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: if you wanted to right now, if we could start
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: the conversation and one of those three categories that you
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: deem the most important at least for us to discuss,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: which would which would those be? If you're in the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Eastern United States, on most properties, it's going to be
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: your woods. Because on most properties that are managed for deer,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: that's what comprises a majority of the property. It always
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: and I shouldn't say amuses me. But I've always find
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: it curious why somebody wants to manage their property but
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: they only want to manage about two percent of it.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, if I think about that, just think about
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: that for a second. You really want to maximize your
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: property for deer, but all you're concerned with is planting
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: some food plots. And rarely does anybody plant any more
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: than you know, two or three percent of their uh
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: property and food plots. Yes, I have been to some
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: that you know they have twenty five you know, planted
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: in food plots, but uh, it's it's it's not necessary.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: And it is so much cheaper and efficient to manage
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: woods and fields four deer than it is to manage
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: food plots. I'm a huge fan of food plots. I
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: just wrote a book, another book on on food plots,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and they can help you get to that next level
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: with regard to nutrition. But you've got to have a base.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: If you don't have that base and you're trying to
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: manage your you're exclusively on food plots, believe me, you're
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: going to be frustrated. So so let's start there. Then
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: let's start with timber and then open area successional habitat.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: What should a deer hunter, dear manager be thinking about
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: when it comes to managing their timber. How do they
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: audit whether they're timber is high quality or not? And
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: then if there needs to be improvements? Can you can
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: you share this some some thoughts on how you might
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: be able to go about doing that if they are
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: wanting to manage specifically for deer. If the tree value
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: is not what's important, but the deer's what's important, then
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: it's very simple. It all comes down to sunlight. And
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: so look at your property without seeing the trees. Try
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: to envision this. You're looking across your property and you're
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the woods. Try to see that.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Just just remove the trees from your side. Now, what
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: do you see whether you're standing in the woods or
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: whether you're standing in a field. That should be the same.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense. I've got I've got vegetation. It's
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: anywhere from heed to five feet tall. Okay, that's the
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: starting point. That's the cover I need. And by default,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: for a majority of the plants, it's going to be
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: some kind of decent forage. Some is always better than none,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: at least for the vast majority of species. But if
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I've got cover that is that tall in my woods,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: bam the deer in there. They're not going anywhere. They're
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: not gonna run through my woodlot to get to the
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: other side where there's a thicket. Do you follow me again?
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Look at your woods without seeing the trees. The all
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: the trees are doing is blocking the sunlight. And they're
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: providing a boost of acorns every once in a while,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: and that and that's the way that should be viewed.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Just a boost of energy in the fall occasionally. Congratulations.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: But you can manage dear at the same level without acrons.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: The forage that is underneath, by far, by far is
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: more important than the acrons that are produced every once
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: in a while. Now do I manage for acrons? Also?
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Of course I do, because I have oak trees, you know,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: in these stands, and so why shouldn't I try to
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: get that extra boost out of them. That should be
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: viewed the same as your food plots, helping you give
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: a little boost at different times of the year. So
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I'm managing my fields with UH and and and the
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: fields are the early successional component that herbaseous UH plant community.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: You know, that's not a young forest. You know by
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: the way, you know you've got a uh two or
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: three or four year old regenerating stand. That's not early succession.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: That's a young forest. And when we talked about early succession,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: we're talking about her baseous plant communities that are out
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: there the field. We get rid of the rank perennial grass.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: We got uh variety of forbes and uh maybe some
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: scattered shrubs and that kind of thing coming up. It's
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: uh four or five feet tall. It's perfect cover deer
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: walking around in the daylight. Uh, they're perfectly covered up. Um,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: they're they're feeding around the entire time. They're bedding in there. Uh,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: they're bedding in there during the summertime, they're falling in there.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: They are are bedding in those fields in the wintertime,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: especially during the day when they get good direct solar radiation.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: And then we get over into the woods or the drawls,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: brushy areas, and that's where you work on having good
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: thick cover uh for escape and uh. And you can
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: either manage those areas where it's kind of moving around,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: you know, cutting different areas at different times to have
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: that thick vegetation coming in, or if you don't have
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: that much property you can burn for example, those areas
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: where you got good thick woody cover. When it starts
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: to get to that point where you can see, oh,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: let's say, you know, twenty yards or so, it's time.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: It's time to burn and set that back. And so
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: then all that stuff re sprouts and you don't lose
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a year in your cover. It's it's right back to
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: where it was. It re sprouts, vigorously grows very quickly,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you know, on vast majority sides. Of course, there's always
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: some exceptions to this, but on the majority sides, and
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: then you can maintain that that good escape cover just
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: in one particular area if you want, Can you elaborate
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: on how to safely manage a prescribed fire like that
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: in the timber to achieve that outcome that you just
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: you just mentioned it, because I think for a lot
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: of guys and gals that's a little bit intimidating, but
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: I know that there's so many benefits of doing that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Can you walk us through what goes into that? Again, Mark,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: you're asking questions that would tell a lot of time
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: to answer, but I'll try to be as succinct as possible.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Number one and I have to say this, it's uh
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: it should be automatic. You have to have a burned
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: plan in which you are stating your objectives and then
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: you were outlining how you're going to do this, and
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: you are involving people who know what they're doing. If
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: you don't know what you're doing, Okay, So I'm gonna
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: say that's that's a given, all right, So I won't
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: go into all the safety and whatever whatever. Um. Of course,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you need a firebreak around the area that you're burning.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: A firebreak most often is created with a tractor and
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: a disk or a bulldozer. It might be a road,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: it might be a creek, it might be a field
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: on one side of the wood just been uh plowed
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: or disked or whatever. Or if you're in the woods.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: What we do more than anything else, a couple of
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: us and and me included. I don't just put this
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: on the technicians backs, but we will put backpack blowers
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: on our back while down through the woods and literally
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: in uh forty five minutes to an hour's time, you
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: can have a nice six eight foot wide firebreak be
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: where the leaves are all blown out of the way
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: right down to uh to the soil which obviously doesn't burn.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: And you know that is the firebreak, and you can
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: have that connecting where there's a road or a creek
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: or uh whatever the case may be, and that's how
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: you contain the fire. Then, of course, you only burn
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: when the weather allows you to. So you have to
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: look at the weather days in advance, and you're targeting
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: the forecast with regard to how many days since the rain, um,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: the temperature, the relative humidity, and the wind and so
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: in essence, you want to burn on a blue bird day,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: not a cloudy day. If you burn on a cloudy day,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: you're probably going to have problems with smoke. And more
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: times than not, the fine fuel moisture will be relatively high,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: and so you're just gonna produce more smoke and you
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: don't get as good as a burn, and and you
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: want to always get that smoke up and off of
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: the area. And and there's something on the fire weather
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: forecast called a mixing height that you pay attention to,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: uh with with an unstable atmosphere, where that smoke will
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: rise vertically very fast. And then you have those transport
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: winds way up there, you know, feet to transport the
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: smoke and and get it off the site. So a
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: blue bird day, relative humidity you know, usually somewhere between
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: thirty and and uh uh a wind you know in
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: stand um wind at that you know that's hitting in
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: the face at about two to five. So then we
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: go in and we light the fire on the down
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: wind side of where we're gonna burn, immediately adjacent to
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: the firebreak. And so your flame links are only you know,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: six eight inches tall, and you have a line of
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: fire and it is backing against the wind because the
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: wind is in your face. Correct or you follow me.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: You let that burn slowly with a back and fire.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: It's very safe. Uh. You're not wanting to damage the
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: trees that you have not killed or cut down, and
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: so you don't want a hot fire. You don't want
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: an intense fire. You let that back through the area
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: that you're burning. It's very safe. It's moving against the wind,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: it's moving slowly. Um. You can speed that up by
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: running some strips of fire perpendicular to your line of fire.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: That's called a flanking fire. Uh. You also could use
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a strip heading fire, and that's where you walk in
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: front of the fire line, the firing front with your
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: drip torch, and you might walk up their fifty feet
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: or so and walk parallel to the firing line, the
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: fire line, and let that strip of fire then blow
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: with the wind into uh that backing fire line. That's
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: called a strip heading fire. But usually just let the
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: fire back through the area. You might use some flank fires.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: UH take your time, let the fire do its thing.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: As long as you're getting the cambium layer, which is
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: that layer just inside the bark of those little uh
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: saplings and seedlings and the understory. As long as you're
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: heating them up to about a hundred and forty five degrees,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: that's that's not that hot. Okay, that take and fifties grees,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: just forty five degrees, you've top killed them. And so
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: you're continually setting back, setting back, setting by that growth
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: in the stand to keep it at a level that
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: is providing good cover for deer, providing forage for deer.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: You know, once that leaf structure gets up there six
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: ft or so, you no longer have forage for deer.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: And once it gets up to that level, it's shading
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: out everything on the ground. And so it's important, it's
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: it's it's necessary to continually uh burn these areas to
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: set back the successional process, and uh, make sure the
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: sunlight is hitting the ground and stimulating the vegetation. How
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: would you say that prescribed fire improvement compares to the
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: quality of habitat you create with another timber improvement practice
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: such as hinge cutting or select of cutting or clear
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: cutting or anything like that. I mean, if you had
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: to rank, I suppose your tools, how would you how
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: would you do that? Well, think about it. Both of
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: them are are all of those are using the same thing,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: which is what sunlight. That's exactly right. And so if
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: you thin the trees with your chainsaw, which is necessary
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: before you start using fire, because if you use a
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: if use fire in a close canopy stand that is
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: not allowing you know, at least twenty perhaps of sunlight
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: coming through, then you're not going to stimulate the vegetation
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: in the understore. There's just too much shade, see what
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. So if you go in and you thin
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: the trees, and whether you girdle and spray the trees,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: or whether you hinge cut or whether you cut them down,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: how long will that sunlight last before the regenerating trees
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: grow up and prevent the sunlight from hitting the ground.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: How long do you think several years? That's right, And
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: in the eastern United it States, it's it's it's amazing,
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: very very consistently, it's gonna be six d eight years.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: So we target seven years as what we call the
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: maximum fire return interval. So with that being said, you're
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: asking me to rank those. Had I rather go in
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: and burn my stand every five to seven years, or
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: had I rather go in with a chainsaw and cut
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: down more trees as frequently as needed, that's up to you. Now,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: one thing I can do with fire that you cannot
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: do with a chainsaw is stimulate the herbaceous plants in
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: the understory. If you're only cutting with a chainsaw on
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: most sites, you're gonna be dominated by woody species, woody brows.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Where you're using fire, you can turn much of that
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: woody composition into herbaceous composition, and that's gonna mean drastic
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: improvements in the nutritional quality. Most of the woody species
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: are going to have somewhere in the neighborhood of twelve
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: to eight crude protein. Most of the herbaceous species that
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: you would be maintaining with fire are going to be
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: somewhere in the neighborhood of at least eighteen up to
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: you know, thirty four crude protein and much more digestible
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: on the average. Can you can you ever have too
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: much of that type of habitat? I mean when we talked,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: you talked earlier about the importance of properly thinking through
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: how all the different pieces of a property work together.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: From a hunting standpoint, strategy standpoint. If I've got timber
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: spread out across my property, would you tell me I
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: should be improving it in this type of fashion all
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: as much as they possibly can, or would you rather
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: have some areas that are improved other areas not so much?
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe so that we minimize dear travel in certain areas
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: and maximizeing others. That's two different approaches. My My approach
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: is to maximize things. Literally, when I'm riding around on
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: a t v S with landowners, we are constantly pointing
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: out what needs to be done. Why would you have
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: this area that is not productive And there's a term
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: that's been coined for that, it's called usable space. If
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: it's not usable for a deer as cover or food,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: then in my opinion, something needs to be done about that.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Now I realized that there is, uh, you know, an
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: approach that you just mentioned to think about dear travel
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: and them not see you or whatever. But that is
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: not an issue with me because I know how to
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: position roads, paths, et cetera, work with the wind. So
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: everywhere on the property is usable for d here, and
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be usable for the same thing.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: But I find it wasteful if there's an area the
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: property that deer you know, are not using because there's
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: no cover and no food. I for me, I don't
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: see any reason for that unless that's you know, the
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: driveway or something around the shop or whatever the case
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: may be. Okay, fair enough, that makes sense. I can
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: definitely see. I can definitely see that point of view.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: And I'll tell you something else that I've kind of
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: called that is odd area management. I've never seen or
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: heard anybody else mentioned it, but it's something that I
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: routinely talk about. As you're driving around and you're along
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: the edge of a field or the edge of the woods,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: you know, I asked, guys, why why have you not
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: sprayed all this tall fescue that's along the edge of
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: the field, or they're at the edge of the woods.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: I mean there's there's uh fifteen or twenty feet from
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: right here over out of the edge of the woods,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: and you know they'll just look at you all, well,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just a little bit, that's true.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: It's just that little bit. But think about this, if
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: you add up all of the little bit all over
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: your property, you'd be surprised at what percentage of the
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: property is in that little bit that is not managed,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: especially if your property is broken up, uh considerably, you know,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: with woods and fields and agriculture and different vegetation types.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: So so let's let's talk about these little bits in
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: these open areas and such. You talked a little bit
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: about earlier the importance of your open areas and managing
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: old fields and everything like that. I know there's a
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: lot to it. But for someone who maybe has not
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: started diving into that at all. They know about food plots,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: they've dabbled maybe in food plots, but they have not
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: been managing these fields to be maximized in nutrition and orcover.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: What does someone need to know to start managing their
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: old fields in creating optimal early successional habitat Where we started,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: the number one thing. Number one thing, get rid of
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: the non native perennial grasses. If you're in the northeast,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: that's gonna be tall fescue, orchard grass, and timothy. If
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: you're in the mid South, it's gonna be tall fescue
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: and orchard grass. If you're in the South, it's gonna
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: be tall fescue, bermuda grass, and Behaa grass. And from
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: the mid South down during the summertime, you're also going
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: to have Dallas grass in many of those areas. If
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: you're in the Midwest, UH, Missouri, East Kansas, portions of
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Eye what cent out through their southern Michigan, UH, You're
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: gonna have tall fescue. You're gonna have a lot of
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: brome grass, especially smooth brom, but you can have other
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: brom grasses as well. Get rid of spray and kill
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: all of the perennial, non native cool season grasses. UH.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Best approach is to do that in the fall, after
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: you've gotten a couple of good frosts. After those frosts,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: all of the warm season plants go dormant. Right Once
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: they're dormant, then you can use a broad spectrum herbicides
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: such as glyphosate to selectively kill the perennial cool season
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: grasses that are vigorously growing and photosynthesizing at that time
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: in preparation for their winter senescence. Although their cool season,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: they also will go dormant during midwinter, and so that
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: is the optimum time to kill them because they're transporting
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: all of those nutrients from the leaves down into their
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: roots in preparation for winter senescence. If you spray them
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: in the spring, you can get what appears to be
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: a good kill, but you don't actually get as good
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: of a kill on the root systems. And with in
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: two years, you'll you'll likely see thirty thirty of that
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: grass cover back out there. So you're saying by doing
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: it later in the fall, after this frost, you can
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: apply like you mentioned, like glyph which would be which
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: would kill almost anything except for the fact incrept me
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. But at that time of year, the
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: types of grasses that you want to survive will be
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: already going dormant, so they won't draw in that glyph
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: and they won't have that negative impact, but it will
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: kill the grasses that you do not want. Those perennial
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: grasses I believe he says that is that right, That
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: is correct. Unless the plant is photosynthesizing, the glyposide is
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: not going to kill it. Glyphocide has no soul activity,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: and so if the plant is dormant, or if the
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: seed has not germinated, an application of glyposide is not
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: going to impact it. So rather than needing to go
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: spot treating these with a little backpack sprayer, you could
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: go out there with your a TV sprayer almost and
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: and spray the whole area into much faster for fashion,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: it seems like absolutely And and for most of these
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: fields that would need a broadcast application anyway because they're
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: covered with these grasses. And while you're at it, use
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: your spray gun and spray all those odd areas as well.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: And and at a minimum mark, at a minimum, by default.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Just by doing that, you have increased the forage value
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: of that field at least ten times, and usually a
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: whole lot more than that. And you have immediately increased
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: the cover value because of what's going to germinate and
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: grow after all that rank grass cover is killed. Because
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: all that grass coverage, you know, it's it's a sod
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: and it's preventing the seed bank from germinating and growing,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: and so you've got it's it's like Christmas once. Once
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: you kill that grass cover, you've got all this different
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: stuff that's just popping up. You never know what you've got.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: You know, it might be something you know, sucky, like
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: a tie or whatever, but it might be something really good,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: you know, and you shot then you never know. So
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: you you just spray all the cover, you pull the
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: what I call you pull the carpet off of the
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: field and get rid of it, and then you let
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: all that stuff underneath pop up and grow. Now, some
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: of it you're not gonna like. You know, if you're
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: out in the Midwest, it might be teasel. If you're
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: down south, it might be sickle pod. If you're in
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: the Northeast, it might be curly doc. You know, there's
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: all kinds of you know, plants out there that you
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: don't won't that are going to respond. Of course, there's
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: gonna be some grasses to Johnson grass on many of
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: these fields. When you kill you know, the brome grass
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: or the fescue or whatever it's going to be on
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: some of them, there'll be an explosion of Johnson grass.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: That's all right, remember this is a way of life.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: When that Johnson grass gets up there about eighteen inches tall,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: go over it with an application of You could use
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: glade to say, but I would probably use plateau. That's
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: a broad spectrum selective her beside that will kill the
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Johnson grass and won't keep most of the other plants
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: that you want them to retain. So, you know, if
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: anyone thinks that they can just go out there and
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: you know, do something with quote their habitat, you know,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: once or twice and it be good that it's just
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: that's incorrect. Habitat management is a way of life. It's
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: something that you're gonna have to get into and don't
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: be discouraged just because you see a plant that isn't
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: good for deer, go out there and kill it. You know,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: if you enjoy killing deer, you are to enjoy killing
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: plants that deer don't lie. So there you go. Now.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: I think when a lot of people think about providing
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: nutrition for their deer, right they jump to food plots
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: clover beautiful little green fields full of this lush, high
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: protein food. But from what I've heard and from people
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: like you, there's a huge nutrition, nutritional component to these
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: types of these old fields, if you if managed properly
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: like you discussed, they provide tremendous forge value. That is
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: that correct, absolutely and in a great big way. You know,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: it's funny you mentioned that I just got an email here,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: let's see about an hour and a half ago there,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: and then that you want to talk about brand new
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: hod Off press is not eman the press. I just
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: got the email from the lab. I just got this
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: from the lab an hour and a half ago. And
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at at the exhale spreadsheet and the graphs,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: and uh, we did we put in some treatments for
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: we mode portions of fields, and we burned portions of fields.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm looking at the crude protein and askid detergent
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: fiber content, as well as the percentage of phosphate, potassium,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: and calcium. So I'll just run through a couple of these. Uh,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Carolina geranium crude protein only nine acid detergent, fiber point
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: five percent phosphorus. That's outstanding, especially on some of these
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: poor souls that we have. Uh, let's see, where's another
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: one that you would recognize. Here's a golden rod thirty
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: two percent crude protein only eleven point eight percent acid
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: detergent fiber uh point seven percent phosphorus. It's outstanding. Um.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Of course BlackBerry, everybody is familiar with BlackBerry. Percent crude protein,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: ten percent acid detergent five. The percentage of acid detergent fiber,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: you want that to be low. In Anything less than
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: about thirty five represents a highly digest table forage. So
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: these are these are outstanding forages. But keep in mind
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: when we're collect them, this is in the spring. We
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: just collected these and send them to the lab because
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: we want to see what is available. Two doze that
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: are late in gestation and about to give birth that
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: this right now is the period when the highest nutrition
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: is required by both doze and bucks. You know bucks
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: here they started growing their atlers of a few weeks ago,
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: and so you want them to have optimum nutrition right now.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Right now is the time we're we're in uh early
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: to mid May, and they need the best that they
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: can possibly have right now. These plants meat or exceed
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: any food plot planning that you would plant. Okay, pick one. Um,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: here's daisy fleabane, and I'm mentioned in species that that
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: dear highly select I'm not talking about plants that they
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: don't eat. You know, we're we're looking at all plants,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: all kinds of plants out there, but I'm specifically looking
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: at the ones that that they are selecting in the fields.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: And you know, we've record whether the plant is eating
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: or not in what extent, et cetera, as I've mentioned
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: for the food plot stuff as well. So uh, again,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: you are missing the boat terribly by overlooking your field.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, the poor guy out there that's got some
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: you know, old field dominated by fescue and got some
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: little trees growing up as ten acres that they're bush
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: hogging every year. Oh my gosh, it's well, there's there's
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: virtually zero food value out there, virtually zero ten acres.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: He can have four thousand pounds per acre just by
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: spraying the fescue. Now that's gonna be a good one.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: But but easy almost anywhere uh one to two thousand pounds,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: and you know it might take, uh, of course, a
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: little bit of effort with regard to spot spreading some
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: pot problem plants like I mentioned. If you know Johnson
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: Grice explodes, you know, don't think you can just spray
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: the fescue and stop right there. As I mentioned, it's
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: an ongoing process. But the value that you can get
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: from these fields is truly outstanding, and and it's just
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: really disappointing that more people don't understand that or don't
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: take advantage of it. So would you stay for someone
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: who's on a budget and they have some type of
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: old field like this, and there they've been thinking, well
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: that they want to put a food plot in. Would
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: you tell that person, on average, their better bet for
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: on a budget, and that's of a situation would be
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: don't plow it under and plant something, take advantage of
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: what you already have, optimize it, and create great habitat
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: in that way. No, I would tell anybody that, regardless
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: of how much money they have. Right and and think
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: about this, I think, think about this, What are you
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: going to plant that has more than you know, crude
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: protein and uh point four point five point seven phosphorus
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: and uh one to two calcium. I mean, these are
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: outstanding forages. Now I'm not saying don't plant food plots,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: especially if you have the means to do so. Now
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: here's the trick that in my opinion, a few people understand.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Now you look at okay, when is nutrition waning or
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: limiting on my property. Now, according to what you have
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: out there in the fields? Are according to what you
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: have in your woods and when it's growing and when
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: it's providing what That's what you have to identify. When
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: is nutrition limiting on your property for your for the
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: for the deer that's on your property, then that's what
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: you use to decide what you need to plant. You
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: need to plant something in your food plot, then that
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: is filling in that natural nutritional gap. Follow me, definitely.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: You don't just plant you know, whatever whatever because you
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: know you saw somebody on TV doing that. You know
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: what you see people doing on TV. I hope this
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: isn't a revelation to anybody, but it's based on sponsorship.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm playing. I mean, let's just be real,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: real honest here, So and and and many products are outstanding.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not speaking for against any product, but don't be
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: misled by what you see on TV and in the magazines.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, let don't don't just keep the wool over
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: your eyes, pull your head out of the dirt. Think
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: about your property and what you have available. Natural nutrition
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: is limiting, hello that when you need to fill a gap. Okay, now,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: choose a planting whose natural production is greatest during that period.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: This is not rocket side, So okay, so let's continue
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: from there. Then let's say we've reached this point where
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: we've we've been optimizing our timber, we're spending time on
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: our old, old fields. Now we find where these gaps are.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: What other considerations should I be thinking through before planning
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: my food plots? Now, let's say it's the first time
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: food plotter who's thinking through all these things for the
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: first time. What are those first things or questions they
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: need to answer before starting on a food plot project.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: I would go back to my photo. Go back to
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: your photo and look where you won't cover and look
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: at where you want food. Where you want food is
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: not necessarily where there is an existing field. Okay, that's
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: that's the first step determining where to plant your food plots.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: You determine where to plant your food plots according to
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: your photo, not according to you standing out in in
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: on the property and looking across the field, because too
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: many times, well obviously you don't want to plant where
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: it's adjacent to a road, and usually not where it's
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: adjacent to a property line or whatever. But you've you've
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: got to put together the puzzle for your property with
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: an eye towards the arrangement of the cover and food.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Now here's where the art comes in. And you're putting
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: together an arrangement for what for your hunting success? Okay,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: were we all want to kill something? We're not just
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: doing this because we want to see them healthy. Yes,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: we like and we want to see them healthy, but
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: we want to see them healthy, Let's be honest, so
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: we can kill them. And so as you were setting
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: this up, you want to do so for your hunting success.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: So with that in mind, you determine the places that
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: you want to plant. Um, what I would recommend is
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: also to look at a souls map as you do this.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: Your souls map can help you determine some of these places.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Especially you know, if if you've got several places where
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: you might plant and over here's a place where the
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: souls are much better than over there, that might help
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: you determine where you need a larger feeding plot as
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: opposed to a smaller hunting plot. Does that make sense?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: So you're looking at your photo deciding where to put what,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: looking at your souls map deciding where it would be
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: best to put larger fields because where the souls are better.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: That means you will have to spend less money on
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: amendments to achieve the yield that you were looking for.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: And something very interesting that we're doing right now we're
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: all in the middle of it, is looking at this
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: relationship between plant nutritional quality and souls, and it is
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: extremely interesting. Most people and myself included, would intuitively think, Okay,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: why do we put out fertilizer to uh make plants
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: more nutritious. No, we put out fertilizers and amend the
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: soil with lime and you know, other amendments so we
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: can achieve a higher yield, more tonnage or more bushels
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: of grain, preaker, et cetera. There is no producer who
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: fertilizes fields to make his soy beans more nutritious. They
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: fertilize their fields to get a higher yield bushels per
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: acre of beans out of their soy beans. So don't
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: be mistaken thinking that your food plots are going to
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: be more nutritious just because you add fertilizer to them,
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: you're gonna have you're gonna obtain greater yield out of them,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: which is very important. Because you don't want to have
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: to plant any more than you have to for the
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: expense of planting and managing a food plot. Correct, okay,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: but there is a certain amount of of soil nutrients
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: that are needed for that plant to grow. And so
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: you can get uh lots of food plot plantings to
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: grow in poor souls, but you're not going to grow
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: very much. And if you take a plant sample of
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: your soybeans, that our only you know if they're healthy,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: and they're only up there about, uh, you know, twelve
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: inches tall, and you pull out those tender leaves and
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: ends of the stem and you send in send those
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: into the lab and you get the report back. It's
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: going to be outstanding forward quality. It's just that if
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: you have amended the soul, now your soil beans, according
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: to what variety of planting, of course, is going to
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: be three feet tall. And so instead of two hundred
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: pounds per acre, you've got four or five thousand pounds
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: per acre. Wow, I can definitely say how that makes
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: a big difference. When you think about that way, well,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: think about your nutritional care and capacity and how many
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: deer you can support. So so when it comes to
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: now we're thinking through these types of questions. Now we're
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: thinking about actually preparing a food plot location. Is there
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: any common mistakes you've seen or anything that maybe is
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: above the normal advice that you found from your research
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: and experience when it comes to how to properly prepare
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: food plot location and seabed or or amending the soil.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Any any couple of things that stand out there that
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: people should know about. If you're planting with uh a
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: no till drill, your seed bed preparation is just spraying
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: the existing vegetation and so as long as that vegetation
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: is you know, and I'm talking about herbaceous vegetation. Uh,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: figuring that you've taken care of those small trees or
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: something coming in, of course you're gonna have to get
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: all that removed with mechanical you know, uh equipment or whatever.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: But uh, you spray the field with the appropriate herbicide.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: You know, almost always glide slike to kill everything down,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: and then uh you wait for the soil conditions to
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: be appropriate, which usually is is very moist so you
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: can get the proper seeding depth according to what you're planting. Well,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: you always want the proper seed and depth regardless of
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: what you're planning. But for some uh plants such as
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: you know, soybeans, they can be or cow pas for example,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: you know inch and a half to two inches deep,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: but I definitely definitely want them an inch deep, uh,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: you know. And then of course for smaller seeds, especially clovers,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: uh even chickory, joint vetch, et cetera. I don't want
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: that any deeper than a quarter of an inch. It's
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: essentially sitting on top of the ground. And so your
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: seedbed preparation when you're planting with a no teel drill
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: is simply to control uh competition. Now, if you're planting conventionally,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: you know, by by disking and covering the seed with
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: a disk or what some people call I do all
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: or what have you, then uh, you need to to
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: work up the salt where you have for most things
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: a fine seed bed, and then you have to pay
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: particular attention to how deep your planet. And that's going
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: to be more difficult with conventional equipment as opposed to
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: no tail planting, which means for many things, you need
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: to plant more seed per acre than you would if
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: you were no til drilling, cause your seeding depth is
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: not as precise, and so your German nation rate and
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: your seedling survival is not going to be as good.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: And then finally, after you've prepared a really good seed
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: bed and and of course beforehand you've amended it properly
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: with you know, lime fertilizer or whatever, and especially if
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: we're talking about small seeded species, it is critically important
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: to go over with a culter packer, something that provides
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: good firm seed to soul contact. And I'm not talking
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: about a drag. A drag is something that you pull
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: across the field to help smooth out the seed bed
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: and break up clods and that kind of thing. But
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: a culter packer actually firms up the seed bed and
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: provide you with good firm seed to soul contact, which
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: definitely improves UH seedling survival rates. So so the idea,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: I know a lot of people talk about using those
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: two things interchangeably. Like if you only have a culter
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: packer a culti packer, you can drag an old chain
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: link fence or something like that. Is it really not
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: going to achieve nearly as as much of what you
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: want to with a dragon that way, or is it
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: still a poor man's version that can kind of get
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: the job done. Um No, it's not a poor man's version.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: It's just using uh, the incorrect piece of equipment. A
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: drag does not achieved the same effect as a Culter packer. Period.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: If I don't have a Qulter packer, then I'm going
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: to go over the field, usually with a four wheeler,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: and firm it up with the four wheeler tires and
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: try it yourself. Go out there and top so your clovers,
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: and then right across it with your fore wheeler about
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: every you know, five or six ft or whatever. Come
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: back two weeks later and look at the green stripes.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: There will be green stripes wherever your tires are, and
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: in between there will be, of course some clovers or
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: whatever you plan it coming up, but it won't look
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: as good as one of those tires went across. I
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: can attest to what you're saying, because that is I
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: do not have a Culti packer, and so I do
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: exactly that. I write over every square inch that I
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: can of my food plots with my tractor tires. Very
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: you know, cussing up myself for not just buying a
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: Culti packer of the the whole time, and then I have
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: seen where if I do miss an area, you can
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: absolutely tell that you can. And you know, I'm not
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: saying you need to pack the soul down. I don't
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: want to pack the soul down. And you know I've
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: got uh some big tractors that you know I would
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: not do that with because that's that that's too much weight.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to compact the soul. I'm just trying
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: to provide good firm seed the soul contact, just just
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: firming it up. Because if you don't do that, think
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: of this. When conditions are are right, the seed germinates
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: and you've got a little rootlet that's coming out of
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: the seed, and if it can't get good immediate contact
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: to mineral soul and it's kind of loose, you're not
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: going to have as good a seedling survival as if
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: it's you know, got good firm contact and that little
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: rootlet can go right down into mental soil and start
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: getting the water. And NU can said it need Yeah,
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: it makes sense. Now I've got a question for Dan
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: over there. You are a first time food player, so
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: as you're hearing Craig walked through all these things from
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: your perspective, as that person who hasn't yet dove into
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: this at all, what are you thinking? What are your
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: what's where are you still confused? What's your question about this?
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: Because I'm I'm hearing all this and I've done it
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: before and I'm familiar with it. But from your perspective,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: where's where's your head at? Where your questions at? My
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: My whole big thing that I'm going to have to
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: focus on is the this area that I have is
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: an old garden. It has been cleared and in a
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: garden was placed there years ago where they grew vegetables.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: Now it hasn't. No one's taking care of this area
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: for you know, two years, maybe three years maybe, and
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: there's now this weed bed basically of a grass. My
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: whole thing is how am I going to get equipment
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: down there to get this grass out? You know, I'm
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: gonna spray it, I'm gonna kill it, and I might
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: even do a burn from the sounds of it. But
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: I'm still curious on what needs to be done to
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: remove that that I guess first inchest of where all
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: the this bad grass is growing for me to be
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: successful when I do plant my seeds and you're gonna
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: plant conventionally. Uh, well, I'll probably plant broadcast style. Um. Yeah,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: So you're gonna you're gonna disk up a seed bed
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: and then you're gonna top sow the seed. Correct? Correct?
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: Uh what equipment do you have, Dan? I'm men do
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: a four wheeler with a disk or some kind of
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: planner or a tractor and a desk or what. As
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: of right now, I have two arms and a garden rate.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: All right, And you just want me to hang up?
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: I can no. No, there there is hope, but it's
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: a different style. What you're gonna have to do is
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: something called um no till top sewing. Okay, okay, you're
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: not gonna know till drill. You're gonna no till tops o.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: And you're gonna be forced to use something that has
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: small seed if you know, till tops so large seed
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: such as you know, as I mentioned, cow peas or
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: corn or soy beans, what have you. It's gonna lay
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: there on the ground and rot. It needs to that.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: Those seed need to be covered, and you have no
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: way to cover the seed. So what you're gonna rely
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: on is mother nature allowing the seed to sift down
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: through dead and decay and organic material that you're gonna
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: spray and kill and it will finally get into a
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: place where it can germinate and grow and you can
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: get a good stand out of that. But you're gonna
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: have to sew at approximately double the rate that you
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: would if you were preparing a seed bed. Okay. And
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: I can't sit here on the phone and tell you
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: exactly what I would do in that field because I
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: don't know what is in that field, But for most
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: of those situations, uh, what I would do is so
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: the best thing for those situations small all seed would
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: be something like, of course clovers or during the warm season,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: where are you dan, uh Eastern Iowa, Eastern Okay? Well, Uh,
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: I would stick with clovers, and later in the in
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: the growing season, like in in August. You also could
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: know till tops O some brassicas and and and they
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: will come up. Uh you can know till tops, so uh,
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: some cereal grains. I would recommend an onless variety of wheat,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: and that will that will, that will do fairly well.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: The critical thing is you've got to control that vegetation.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: And what I like to do is about three weeks
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: before I hope to see my planting germinate and come out.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: I will sow the seed at that time and then
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: go through and spray the entire area with glyphosate. In
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: three weeks time, that material is going to die down
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: and it's gonna you know, be starting to fall down
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: on the ground, uh, providing more organic material and you'll
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: see your planet uh seeds starting to come out. Now
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: according to what the seed bank is, you know, you
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: could have uh some other stuff come out as well,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: and then you're going to be at the mercy of
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: the seed bank with regard to what you can get
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: rid of with with clovers, there's some really good herbicides
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: that you can use to attend to weed pressure. But um,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: you know that that's something that you have to attend to.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: So I would look at no till top sew and
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: and spraying at least three weeks prior to when I
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: hope the seed would germinate and start to grow. Got you. Well,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: there you go down and of course and of course
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: apply the appropriate amount of lime and fertilized according to
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: your soul taste. Right. So okay, so you you started
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: walking us through some different forage options. Given Dan's set
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: of circumstances, and you also alluded to this earlier, how
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't just plant based on what you see on TV.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: A lot of people, you know, ask what's what should
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: I plant my food plot? And they expect there to
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: be one single answer that's always going to be correct,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: And of course it's always gonna be different based on
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: your goals, your circumstances and also done different things like that.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: But could you walk us through at least the process
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: that you think somebody should go through when trying to
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: answer that question for themselves. What is the right thing
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: to be planning? We've we've already talked about looking for
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: the gaps in nutrition across your property. I'm sure that's
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: part of this, but is there anything else that somebody
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: should be thinking about when trying to answer what should
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: I plan? Well, again, I would go back to what
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier about looking at the property and identifying,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: you know, when those gaps are, and then I'm looking
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: at what is providing food at that time. So that's
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: going to vary a little bit with regard to where
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: you are in the country and you know, the the
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: growing season, of course, but just about everywhere think about this.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: You tell me when our bucks beginning to grow antlers
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: where you live April April and what if you're in
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Oklahoma beats same time? What about New York time or
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: even North Florida. You know, it's interesting that the timing
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: of bucks growing antlers is really actively tight across the
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: country as opposed to the timing of the rut. Have
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: you ever thought about that? I think it's pretty pretty interesting.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: It is. So if I'm trying to plant something that
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: is going to provide optimum nutrition for bucks, I'm looking
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: at what's occurring on my property naturally, and I want
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: to make sure that at that time, uh, there is
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: just plentiful, high quality forage. If there's not, you definitely
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: need something that's gonna fit that April May and early
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: June winda um for most areas of the country of
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: the antler growth is complete by August the one so
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, they will plant soybeans,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: which I am. I am big on planting soybeans for
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: for various reasons. But you know, if you go in
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: and drill your beans or plant your beans in early
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: to mid June, or let's say you planted them in
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: mid May, but you put a fence around them to
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: keep deer out until late July. What did you just
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: achieve You've kept deer from eating the highest quality forward
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: you have during the time that they needed the most.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's just ultra curious to me.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: Why why would you do that? I mean, unless you're
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: planning some little bit of plot, you know, for for
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: bow hunting or something like that, and you've got so
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: many deer you can't even get a food plot to grow,
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: which you know, I would argue you have other problems then,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I want something during that April to June
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: time period, and something that is really good regardless of
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: where you go across the country is perennial clovers and
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: chickery during that time. UM. Another good forage during most
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: of that time is some of the annual clovers. Uh
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: according to where you are, that maybe uh crimson, that
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: may be air leaf, that may be balanza, that may
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: be barsine, and there are some cold tolerant varieties of barsine.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: Don't overlook the annual clovers that they they will have
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: a place in the management strategy of food plot UH,
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: strategy of most properties. You know for deer and if
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: I'm needing something during the wintertime, I'm concentrating on uh
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: a cool seasoned grain, along with annual clovers and uh
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: of course possibly various brassicas. The perennial forages are not
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: producing forage during the wintertime. Uh literally, unless you're down
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: south where you've got really really mild winters. Uh Well,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: most areas of the perennial clovers and chicory or in
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: in alfalfa or either dormant, wilted down, or producing no
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: more than literally twenty five or fifty pounds pre acre
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: during during midwinter. They are not what you're looking for.
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: You're looking for annual, cool season cereal grains, especially oats
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: and wheat, and in some areas of really far north,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: I would go as far as say cereal rye uh
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: annual clovers in the and in various brassicas. And then
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: during that summer period if you're down south, I like
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: uh joint vetchan and alice clover. I like soybeans and
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: cowpeas almost anywhere. But you've got to think about the
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: growth cycle of these plants. You're usually planting them. You
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: know it's going to differ. You know, in latitude, whether
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: you're in uh Michigan or North Louisiana, of course, but
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: typically you're talking about planting in in May early June
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: and something like that. But those plants need a while
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: before they're really providing much production. And so your peak
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: production is going to be August through September according to
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: you know what variety, et cetera. So that's an important time,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: especially for fons. You know, after fons are winged, they're
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: requiring a very high crew protein content, you know, like
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: nineteen and so that's the time when those natural forages
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: that we talked about earlier that are you know, crew protein,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: are very low, relatively low in uh nutritional value, although
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: many of them continue to produce leads on the ends
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: of the stems that are very high in in UH
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: in nutrients. And and that's something that's that we found
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: very interesting looking at the difference in nutrition level of
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: young leaves versus old leaves on given plants. But you've
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: got to feel that window of times of the year
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: when nutrition is limited on your property. So as you
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: as you've been discussing this, you've brought for a couple
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: of terms that people new to food plotting may not
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: be familiar with and that's annuals versus perennials and cool
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: season versus warm season. Can you can you help us
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: better understand what those mean and then what are the
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: right applications or or the benefits to either or. An
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: annual plant germinates grows, flowers, produces seed, and dies in
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: one year or within one year. A biennial species germinates grows,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: for most of them will overwinter either with green leaves
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: or a green rosette, according to what plant you're talking about,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: and then it will flower the next year, produce seed,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: and die. A perennial species will germinate and grow. Most
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: of them will flower their first year, produce seed, and
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: then go dormant, and then arise again from their roots
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: system each year thereafter, according to which one you're talking about,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: from many years, so a perennial species continues to come
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: back from the roots. An annual species relies on throwing
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: off seed to uh to continue you know that species,
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: to persist, and a bi annual species throws off the
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: seed uh in in its second year. Warm season is uh.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: I won't get into great detail, but in essence, a
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: majority of them grow and produce most of their growth
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: during the warmer months of the year and flower and
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: produce seed toward the end of summer and uh fall.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: Cool season species grow during cooler months of the year,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: but not necessarily through the middle of winter, but certainly
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: during the fall and spring months, and they typically flour
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: and produce seed in spring or early summer. So the
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: phonology the timing of these plants is absolutely critical for
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: you to understand in order to one put together a
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: food plot mixture and number two meet the demands of
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: when a new nutritional gap may occur. You know, it's
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: I said something about, you know, the commercial products I am.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: I am neither positive or negative on them, but I
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: look at them objectively. When I turned the bag upside
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: down and look at the seed tag, and it's got
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: warm season plants and cool season plants, and fords and
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: grasses and a little of this, a little you know,
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: you can just flip that over and put it down.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: They have put that mixture together for somebody out there
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: is totally ignorant, and they're going to plant it in
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: a wet spot, a clay spot, a dry spot, a
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: sandy spot, and win or summer whenever, and they expect
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: to see something come up and and and they will,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: but oftentimes at least half of the contents in the
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: bag is totally wasted because they're planting it on the
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: wrong side or at the wrong time whatever. If you
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: understand what you're planting and why, then you're only gonna
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: have species in the mixture that fit the need and
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: the time of when you're planning, and and your successes
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: is far greater. So to the annuals versus perennials again,
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: what would be the benefits to using one over the other.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: I've certainly, I've certainly got on this path, and I
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: think I understand it. I've been utilizing annuals to reach
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: some of my goals and prails for other goals. But
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: for those that haven't, maybe you know, I just try
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: to understand that distinguishment and utilize that or choose which
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: is the right of the two for their goals. What
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: would that be? When would you use each in different applications? Um,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: If if I'm up north, then I'm using more perennials
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 1: than annuals. Probably, and it's according to the property, but
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: probably because perennial cool season species Ladino clover all site
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: clover alpha alpha chickory, etcetera. It's peak production is made
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: through July early August. So although it's it's called a
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: cool and it is cool season species, it's peak production
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: time is during the summer. And that's especially true in
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: the northern latitudes. So the perennial cool season species act
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: as a warm season forage. Then if I'm up north,
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: I'm also going to have either annual cool season species
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: to fill any uh nutrition gaps in winter, or I'm
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: going to have something like soybeans and corn, which are
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: warm season species, but they have food, you know, either
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: the soybeans seed or the corn grain that is available
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: in fall and winter for a good energy source. And
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: of course if you have soybeans, then obviously that provides
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: an outstanding warm season forage source as well. And that's
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: really the reason why soybeans, in my opinion, all things considered,
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: soybeans have to be ranked number one of all food
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: plot plannings because they provide such outstanding warm season forage
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: as well as a fall and winter uh source of
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: energy in their beans. But but food plus soybeans are
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: not you know, a cure all for for for everything.
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: You're You're not going to have of uh soybeans available
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: during that March April May time in most areas of
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: the country, you know, way down south, you can you know,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: plant soybeans priorily, but still then they're just gonna be
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: tiny and trying to come out of the ground. So
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: during that uh late um or you know, the the
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: early phoning in late just latestation periods in the early
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: phoning and that initial antliger and phase soybeans are providing
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: nothing because they're not out there. And is that that's
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: probably somewhere worth than like your perennial clover might fill
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: that gap, right that that's correct or according to where
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: you are, various annual clovers as well, and um you know,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: one of a favorite mixture of mine is winter wheat
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: with crimpson clover and araw leaf clover. And according to
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: the situation, I might also add red clover with that.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: But the crimpson clover and the and the wheat come
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: out of the ground, you know within with with if
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: there's moisture within two weeks after you planet, and so
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: you've got a graze herble stand within four weeks. It
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: goes right through the winter. It will continue to produce
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: through the winter and it, and the crimson clover is
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: good up to about southern Pennsylvania southern Michigan, you know
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: that latitude and and down and air leaf clover might
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: be a touch lower than that, but those two grow
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: through the winter. The crimson clover will flour and die
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: in late April. At that time, it's when you really
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: see the air leafs start to pop out and you know,
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: grow out of the crimson clover. And at that time,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: the wheat is bolting and producing a seed head. If
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: you've used an onless variety of wheat, or some people
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: call it beardless. You know those wheat seed heads that
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: have those long, stiff hair like structures on it, those
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: are called LMS A w N. Do not plant uh
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: and on the variety of wheat, plant on less varieties
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: of wheat, it's producing a seed head. At that time.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: Deer will eat those seed heads in the milk stage,
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: and then they will eat those seed heads after they've dried.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: And on a pro acre basis, you can get you know,
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: a thousand, fiftundred pounds of forage just out of the
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: wheat seed heads. That's free energy. Why would you not
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: take advantage of that? That's one reason why I tend
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: to place wheat above oats and cereal right, because of
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: the value of the wheat seed head. Now, Dear will
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: selectively choose of the cool season grains oats first, cereal
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: right second, and wheat third. And then also, if you
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: have barley, it's it's way way way down, uh, whenever
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: we planted barley and wherever, deer don't touch it, but
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: they will hammer the oats, the rye and the wheat.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: And when I say rye, please know that I'm talking
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: about annual rye serial right. I'm not talking about rye grass.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: That's a completely different species. And there is no situation
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: whatsoever anywhere in which I would plant rye grass. There's
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: simply way, way too many other things to plant that
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: are far better and that are much highly selected by
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: deer uh than than rye grass. And so even though
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: oats is selecting number one serial righte number two and
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: wheat number three, I typically go with wheat number one because,
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: first off, the value of the seat did but number two.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: If you have all three of those out there, you
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: will see dear select one over the other of the other.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: But if you take one of them away, they will
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: be eating the other two. If you take one of
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: those away, they're gonna be eating the one that's left,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: just as if you you had the other two. You
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: see what I'm saying. So you know, if you don't
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: have oats or right, they're gonna eat wheat like they
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: would oats or rye if if they were there. Um,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: but if they're together, they'll select the oats first. So
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: if you're just trying to plant a highly attractive plot
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: and you're not worried about carrying nutrition through the winter,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: oats is a perfectly fine thing to use. Uh, It's
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: it's very attractive. It's an outstanding forwards. You you know,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: amendo soul where you can get good production and uh,
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: the nutritional value gonna get easily in excess crew protein
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: and and until the cool season grains begin to bolt,
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: the acid detergent fiber content will be very low. But
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: once the those cool season grains, those grasses start to
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: get large and begin to bolt, the dear use of
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: them drop off precipitously. Now a lot of people look
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: at that or gosh, you know they're not eating any
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: of this. We just need to mow this to, you know,
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: get some fresh growth. Well, if you're planting using wheat
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: and you have those clovers mixed in with it, you
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: don't want to do that because the clovers are still
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: in there and that's providing really good, attractive, nutritious forage.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: Plus the wheat then will produce that seed head that
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: that deer. Then we'll come in and I mean, it's
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: it's amazing that you know, the pictures that we have
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: where we get down and take a picture, you know,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: about two ft off the ground, it's just nothing but
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: wheat stock spikes all across the field with not one
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: seed head on it. It's it's it's it's very attractive
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: during that time Megan June and and the air leaf
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: is coming out. The air leaf persist until July. It'll
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: start uh flowering in July, and it'll finish up in
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: late July. So right, there's a plot that I plan
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: it in early to mid September. At this latitude, it
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 1: is provided outstanding forage and every month of the year
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: through late July. And then if I had red clover,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: according to what latitude I'm at, that red clover will
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: persist until August. That is the only mixture that I'm
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: aware of, and all of our work that truly is
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: a year round food plot. For dear, there is nothing else.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: There is no other mixture that I'm aware of that
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: is truly year round in terms of producing during every
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: month of the year and have an adequate standing crop
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: that is sufficient for pretty dog on heavy grays in
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: every month of the year. Mhm. Now, as you're talking
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: about this mixture, I know that there are and you
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: you kind of alluded to this already as well, that
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: there are some things that mix well together. There's some
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: things that don't or they don't make sense to mix
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: together at all. Um, are there any other other handful
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: or a couple of different other mixtures that you've found
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: work well together for whatever goal it might be that
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: you want to you as an example. Oh, yes, there's
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: there's lots of them, and uh, we've put them all
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: in this food plot book. Um. And you know I
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: can't go through all these different mixtures, but you know
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: it's it's easy to get a hold of. You can
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: go to the the UT Extension and Publication site and
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: order it. You can go to the Quality Deer Management
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: Association website and and and order it. And we've you know,
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: we put all of this together. And in this edition
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: here I've put a plant i D Guide in the
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: back of it that shows nice full color pictures, you know,
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: several pictures of each species, so you can see what
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: these plants are that might be growing in your food
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: plots or in your in your fields. How to identify
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: whether they're good for wildlife or not, and if they're not,
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: you might do use or spray to get rid of them.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: That's perfect. That was exactly one of the things I
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: was wondering about as we were talking through all is
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: different aspects of habitats. How do you identify which ones
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: are good, which ones are bad, what the deal with them?
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: And that's that sounds it is not easy to find
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: that information. And I get asked at all the time,
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: and it took, to be quite honest with you, a
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: long time to put this together. But uh, and and
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: you know, there's there's still more that that that I'd
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: like to add, and might do that in a in
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: a later edition, but this one I think I've got.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: Don't hold me to this, but it's it's more than
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: two d and fifty species it's in there. And uh,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: of course it's not everything that you would find everywhere.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: But it's got species and pictures in there from uh
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: everywhere from Michigan and Iowa and Kansas to uh Mississippi,
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: the mid South, New York, Pennsylvania, throughout the Eastern United
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: States across to the Great Plains. So, in addition to
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: the species identification and those things you just mentioned there,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: what else is in the book? What else should we
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: be looking for? Well, the first of the whole portion
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: of the book is a guide to wildlife food plots.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: So it tells you everything from considerations and a food
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: plot management plan, UH, considering your objectives, UH, everything about souls,
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: soil nutrition, amending souls, everything about the various nutrients and lime.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: It's there's a chapter of course on weed and pest control,
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: all about the herbicides and pesticides. There's a chapter on deer,
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: a chapter on turkeys, a chapter on UH bob white
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: morning dub waterfowl, a chapter on woods roads. UH. There's
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: appendices that provide planting charts and UH charts on which
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: species do you prefer? For a second third, UH appendacies
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: on the herbicides and pesticides. UH. And and then you've
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: got the whole plant I D Guide In the back
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: of it. So so this is I think it's a
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: perfect place for us to wrap things up too, because
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: we've taken a lot of your time and we appreciate that.
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: But it sounds like if anyone out there this conversation
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: is that that the the appetizer, this is the beginning
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: of your interest in food plots, or you know you
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: want to do it, but you haven't really had what
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: maybe the resources or the get up and go to
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: go do it. Now, if you've heard this and you're
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: excited and you're motivated, or you want that little extra,
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: it sounds like this book of yours, Craig is going
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: to give them everything else they need to do to
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: take from our conversation here as a starting point to
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: then apply to everything else they need to to go
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: and actually put something in the ground that will make
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: a positive difference for their dearness. I believe you're also
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: there's also more information about the early successional habitat as well. Correct, Yes,
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: uh that you know that plant I d guide in
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: the back that is a guide to early successional plants,
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: and there's information in there on of course, managing early
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: successional areas, and we have other publications on that as
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: well if if somebody goes to my web page perfect
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: well on that note, then Craig, I know you mentioned
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: it briefly, but can you again tell us where we
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: can find that information and where we can purchase the
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: copy of the book, either through the University of Tennessee. Uh,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: you can go to UT Extension or you can go
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: to the Department of Forestry, Wildlife and Fisheries. Uh. It's
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: easy enough just by googling my name and uh U
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: T and you'll find that easy enough. And of course
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: the Quality of Deer Management Association carries the book. They
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: provide it in uh in what they call their shared
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: where you can buy products and and I might also
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: mention the people who want to get more of this
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: kind of information. We we provide this and so much
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: more in those Dear Steward courses offered through the Quality
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: Dear Management Association, and they're held across the country, and uh,
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a great opportunity for somebody learned all
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: kinds of stuff about dear dear habitat and uh you know,
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: some aspects about hunting as well. So true, Yeah, as
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, I attended one of those courses I
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: think seven or eight years ago, and it really was
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: one of the without a doubt, probably the single greatest
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: educational opportunity I've had when it comes to Dear Habitat
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: and all these things. So so I can't I cannot
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: recommend them enough and creg are you gonna be participating
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: in them again this summer? Yes, we have uh I
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: think two Dear Steward one courses and at least to
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: Dear Steward two courses. Okay, one of them is coming
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: up here pretty soon and in Iowa. Uh yea. If
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: they through, I believe it is great. And I think
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: that includes a site visit to Bill Winkie's property as well,
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: which I which I imagine would be pretty interesting. Yes, yes,
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: it'll be. It'll be a fun time. That's terrific. Well
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: for anyone out there who who hasn't already checked that out,
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: I highly recommend definitely giving it a look. And if
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: you can't make one of the in person opportunities, which
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: which I do think are the best way to go
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: about it, I think there are also some great opportunities
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: with the online modules that are available. There's an online
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: version of the Dear Stuart of course, which definitely can
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: be a great education too, so check those out at
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: qum a dot com and Craig, I just can't thank
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: you enough. This has been really, really interesting and I
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 1: think for everybody out there who's ever wondered about food
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: plots getting started or taking their food plot game to
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: the next level, I think you just made a huge
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: difference for them. So thanks for that. Well, you're most
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: welcome and I enjoyed it and appreciate you asking me
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: to be absolutely and Dan had to jump off because
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: of children issues with a little little kids in the family,
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: but he wanted to say thank you as well, Craig,
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: so I we will make sure to include links to
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: everything you mentioned for folks to check out the book
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: and uh, I guess until we chat next time. Thanks
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: again and good luck this summer and fall. Alright, very
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: good same to you and look forward to seeing you again.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: Well there you go, talk about a serious education on
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: deer habitat. Just awesome, awesome stuff there. And with that
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 1: we are going to wrap things up a few quick
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: reminders though. First be sure to check out the New
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: Wild podcast. We've just released a new episode featuring Rod
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: Owen of the Jury Outdoors team, and we're discussing how
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: to sell film your hunt, so check that out and
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: please subscribe and leave us a rating or review on iTunes.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: It's a huge help. We also need to thank our
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: partners who helped make this podcast possible, so big thank
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: you too, Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds,
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: Tara Maps, Oxonics, Carbon Express, Maven Optics, and the White
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: Tailed Institute of North America. And finally, thank you all
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: for joining us. I hope this episode inspired you to
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: get a little dirt in your hands and to get
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: outside improving deer habitat. And of course, until next time,
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: stay Wired to Hunt.