Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / Detroit Heroic From Dr Olaf Kroneman True Crime Murders That Need Today To Solve

Transcript

Detroit Heroic From Dr Olaf Kroneman True Crime Murders That Need Today To Solve · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

0:00
Speaker 1: Oh, we're having some fun over there on Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net.
0:04
Speaker 1: It's not just a podcast. It is a podcast network.
0:07
Speaker 1: We're having fun with Music's Lost History. We give you
0:10
Speaker 1: the song hints and the artist hints. And can you
0:14
Speaker 1: tell us before we share the answer with you? Music's
0:17
Speaker 1: Lost History, only on Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net. Enjoy your exploration. Hello
0:24
Speaker 1: and good morning, Doctor. How are you doing today?
0:27
Speaker 2: I'm just fine, thank you.
0:29
Speaker 1: I am so excited to share a conversation with you
0:31
Speaker 1: because I love it when somebody can take a moment
0:35
Speaker 1: and really give us something that's from the reality of
0:37
Speaker 1: life and put it into a book where we can
0:39
Speaker 1: sit there and explore through paragraphs. What was that journey
0:42
Speaker 1: like for you to bring Detroit Heroic forward?
0:46
Speaker 2: I wanted to write a crime novel, kind of a
0:48
Speaker 2: thought builder.
0:49
Speaker 3: And then as I was writing, I wanted to write
0:52
Speaker 3: something perhaps a little more significant.
0:56
Speaker 2: And I don't know. Our time now in.
0:59
Speaker 3: 2026 is quite contentious. And so I was going to
1:04
Speaker 3: write about 2026 and I said, well, wait a minute.
1:08
Speaker 3: 1968 was a much worse year and we survived it.
1:14
Speaker 3: And I have my characters, a couple of young physicians,
1:18
Speaker 3: trying to practice medicine and train in that environment. And
1:23
Speaker 3: it takes place in Detroit. The first day on the
1:26
Speaker 3: job they don't go to the hospital they go to
1:28
Speaker 3: the morgue where they have to prepare all these bodies
1:31
Speaker 3: so um what i was able to do is um
1:35
Speaker 3: create of that time period um and show how things
1:42
Speaker 3: were 50 years ago how much they've changed and how
1:46
Speaker 3: much they've stayed the same Wow, I'm just so.
1:49
Speaker 1: Blown away by this because being in radio for 47
1:52
Speaker 1: years and we've always heard about 67 and 68 being
1:55
Speaker 1: the years of the summer of love and everything. And
1:58
Speaker 1: I read a story like this and I'm going, oh
2:00
Speaker 1: my God. And because we had no idea, it's almost
2:03
Speaker 1: been like that it's been hidden from the rest of us.
2:06
Speaker 3: 1968, they say 19, you know, 2026 is catastrophic.
2:12
Speaker 2: 1968 was apocalyptic.
2:13
Speaker 3: And the more I got into the story- the more
2:17
Speaker 3: I realized what a horrendous year that was. And the,
2:21
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, I was a student in the
2:23
Speaker 3: 60s and we protested against things like, you know, the
2:28
Speaker 3: fact that our bombing on North Vietnam killed a thousand
2:32
Speaker 3: civilians a day.
2:33
Speaker 2: Okay.
2:34
Speaker 3: People protesting now want to keep men out of the
2:37
Speaker 3: girls' bathroom. To me, you know, there's a huge difference between,
2:44
Speaker 3: you know, the stands that we took and some of the,
2:50
Speaker 3: I'm not sure, not so significant stands that are being
2:53
Speaker 3: taken today. And, you know, I go back to William
2:57
Speaker 3: Faulkner's Nobel Prize acceptance speech where people have fights where
3:03
Speaker 3: nobody loses anything of value or wins anything of value.
3:07
Speaker 3: And what struck me about this time period also is
3:12
Speaker 3: that I wanted my amateur doctors to solve a crime.
3:17
Speaker 3: I think it's very appealing when you see people who
3:20
Speaker 3: are not professional crime solvers.
3:23
Speaker 2: So I needed a crime to make up.
3:26
Speaker 3: But then in 67, there was a horrendous crime where
3:30
Speaker 3: three young black men were murdered by police in a
3:34
Speaker 3: hotel and nobody wanted to investigate it until John Hersey.
3:38
Speaker 2: Now, this is true.
3:39
Speaker 3: John Hersey, the fellow that wrote Hiroshima, took an interest
3:44
Speaker 3: in this and actually he, um, was able to, uh,
3:49
Speaker 3: connect the dots and solve the crime. Now I was
3:51
Speaker 3: able to find, as I read and read and read
3:54
Speaker 3: about 68, there was a connection between John Hersey, Harry Truman,
4:00
Speaker 3: and Thomas Dewey and a small town in Michigan. So
4:04
Speaker 3: I was able to connect all these dots and make
4:07
Speaker 3: a credible, um, a narrative, which, uh, It surprised me,
4:13
Speaker 3: but fit well into the story.
4:15
Speaker 1: Don't you love it when this happens, when research allows
4:18
Speaker 1: us to make stories like that? Because, I mean, right
4:21
Speaker 1: away I had visions of my second and third grade
4:23
Speaker 1: teacher that told us to do exactly what you've done.
4:26
Speaker 1: But we said, oh, I don't want to. I want
4:28
Speaker 1: to write really upbeat stories about fast cars. And yet
4:31
Speaker 1: I'm so intrigued by Detroit Heroic. In fact, my wife
4:35
Speaker 1: and I both sat there going, if they don't make
4:36
Speaker 1: this into a binge watch, then we as a generation
4:40
Speaker 1: are going to miss out on something very valuable. Either
4:42
Speaker 1: that or NBC has to pick it up and make
4:44
Speaker 1: it a new medical show.
4:46
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I mean, I watch these medical shows and,
4:51
Speaker 3: you know, they're all sensational.
4:53
Speaker 2: There's no character development. Right, right. I mean, this guy
4:57
Speaker 2: gets an Emmy and I don't know anything about him.
5:00
Speaker 2: That's so true.
5:01
Speaker 3: You know, and so I really like, you know, how I,
5:08
Speaker 3: you know, and these are really, mosaics of people and
5:11
Speaker 3: patients that I've met and how they deal with events
5:17
Speaker 3: that are so devastating. In 67, 68, you were dealing with, you.
5:23
Speaker 2: Know, racism.
5:25
Speaker 3: Yeah. Accepted police brutality. And the police brutality was, you know,
5:31
Speaker 3: there would be no, like, there would be no way
5:35
Speaker 3: that those three murders would have gone uninvestigated in 2026.
5:38
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. But they were in 1968.
5:41
Speaker 3: Then you have the assassinations. You had Martin Luther King assassinated.
5:46
Speaker 3: You had Bobby Kennedy assassinated. And then here's something I
5:50
Speaker 3: found out. You know, the 1968 Olympics were supposed to
5:55
Speaker 3: be a happy time to get us out of the problem.
6:02
Speaker 3: Detroit was supposed to get the 1968 Olympics, but they
6:05
Speaker 3: were told that they couldn't guarantee safety.
6:10
Speaker 2: Turns out Mexico City got them.
6:13
Speaker 3: But two weeks before, they had what's called the La
6:18
Speaker 3: Teleloco Massacre, where the president killed anywhere between 200 to
6:23
Speaker 3: as many as 1,000 student protesters.
6:30
Speaker 1: How did you keep inner peace? Because uncovering all of
6:34
Speaker 1: this information like you have, I would get so angry.
6:38
Speaker 1: Or was it that you put your focus on, I
6:40
Speaker 1: need to educate the people and showcasing my personal emotions
6:44
Speaker 1: as an author, I can't do that. Because as a reader,
6:47
Speaker 1: I got so intrigued by it, but I was upset
6:50
Speaker 1: with the way that, like you said, these are three
6:52
Speaker 1: murders that went unnoticed.
6:54
Speaker 3: Why? Why? Why? Why?
6:56
Speaker 1: And that just gets inside my soul.
6:59
Speaker 3: There was a cover-up. Yes. And, you know, it was
7:07
Speaker 3: dangerous to– back then the Detroit police force, which is
7:10
Speaker 3: now predominantly black, back then maybe 5% black. So there
7:17
Speaker 3: was a conscious effort to cover up the truth. And
7:21
Speaker 3: it really is fascinating how they discovered– who, what, when,
7:26
Speaker 3: and where, and it was all due to really John
7:29
Speaker 3: Hersey's book, The Algiers Motel Incident. And I read that,
7:34
Speaker 3: I studied that book, also a book, 1968, which gives
7:39
Speaker 3: you a lot of details of just exactly what was
7:42
Speaker 3: going on. And, you know, I grew up in that era,
7:47
Speaker 3: but I didn't really.
7:47
Speaker 4: Appreciate, now in retrospect, I appreciate just what a horrendous
7:55
Speaker 4: time it was, but it was also, I think, the
7:58
Speaker 4: beginning of a lot of movements that made things better.
8:01
Speaker 3: Now, things are not perfect today, and I realize, but
8:04
Speaker 3: in 1968, you had the beginning of the women's movement.
8:08
Speaker 2: That's right. And the whole concept of abortion.
8:13
Speaker 3: Now, you can't write a medical novel from 1968 without
8:18
Speaker 3: bringing up the concept of the illegal back alley abortions.
8:22
Speaker 3: And my protagonist there he's conflicted because he sees these
8:28
Speaker 3: young women dying and yet he himself was against abortion
8:32
Speaker 3: but um he um you know he has this um
8:38
Speaker 3: you know epiphany that you know is it bad but
8:43
Speaker 3: but you know well it's kind of he calls it
8:45
Speaker 3: a battlefield decision because um his mentor uh he's an
8:49
Speaker 3: older physician mentor who was in vietnam and had to
8:53
Speaker 3: call in airstrikes on his own position because they had
8:56
Speaker 3: run out.
8:56
Speaker 2: Of ammunition, they were being overrun.
8:59
Speaker 3: So he said, I saved half of the people in
9:02
Speaker 3: my platoon, but lost half.
9:04
Speaker 2: And that haunts him through the whole novel.
9:07
Speaker 3: And that's his, you know, he gets my younger physician
9:11
Speaker 3: to go along with him, saying, you know, we're going
9:15
Speaker 3: to save, you know, two lives. And He ends up
9:23
Speaker 3: getting framed for an illegal abortion, and he has to
9:26
Speaker 3: go to the Detroit underworld to come to his rescue.
9:30
Speaker 3: So it's fast-paced, but there's stuff there. It's not just
9:36
Speaker 3: a medical thriller superficial, and that's how I started out
9:42
Speaker 3: writing it. But once you get into 1968, you can't
9:45
Speaker 3: help but raise all these– political, philosophical, religious issues.
9:57
Speaker 1: See, and that's what I love about this story is
9:59
Speaker 1: that even my granddaughter, who's 22 years old, gets into
10:02
Speaker 1: this story. And the reason why is because, like you mentioned,
10:06
Speaker 1: that it is pre-Roe versus Wade. Well, her generation actually
10:10
Speaker 1: is trying to find out more about that generation and
10:13
Speaker 1: And what happened is, is that she's connected to this
10:15
Speaker 1: story because it gives her a real look at what
10:18
Speaker 1: life was possibly really like, like in 68. Because, I mean,
10:23
Speaker 1: before that, everything's been washed away. It's been taken out
10:25
Speaker 1: of the headlines. You can go Google chat it. You
10:27
Speaker 1: can you can do something on Gemini. but you're not
10:29
Speaker 1: going to get a storyline like you've done. And kudos
10:32
Speaker 1: to you for taking your time in order to share
10:34
Speaker 1: this story, because you're right. They always want to rush
10:37
Speaker 1: to the hit or the hook of the song or
10:39
Speaker 1: something like that. But you took the time to really
10:42
Speaker 1: develop these characters so that we knew who they were
10:45
Speaker 1: when we would jump onto a page.
10:47
Speaker 2: Thank you. It was, you know, I grew as a
10:52
Speaker 2: person while I wrote it.
10:54
Speaker 1: Oh, I was going to ask you about that. How
10:57
Speaker 1: you changed yourself. I didn't know if you would jump
10:59
Speaker 1: into that, but how did you change?
11:02
Speaker 2: I became more patient, more reflective. And I think, you know, tolerant.
11:10
Speaker 2: And I think everybody should do that. You've got to
11:12
Speaker 2: take all views. And there is a common ground that
11:16
Speaker 2: we all have as humans. Self-control.
11:20
Speaker 1: No, I am so into that because I get in
11:23
Speaker 1: more trouble sometimes when people go, why are you always
11:25
Speaker 1: talking to people you don't know? Because they've got stories.
11:28
Speaker 1: If you would just take the time to listen to
11:32
Speaker 1: their stories, you're going to learn something about your community
11:36
Speaker 1: and basically about where we presently stand and where we
11:39
Speaker 1: came from.
11:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like... It's like those progressive insurance commercials where
11:44
Speaker 3: the people, they talk to everybody. And, like, I was
11:46
Speaker 3: doing it. I was in New York this weekend. They
11:49
Speaker 3: had a book launch, and it was great. You know,
11:53
Speaker 3: and here I'm from the Midwest. So I'm starting to
11:56
Speaker 3: talk to all these New Yorkers. My wife goes, no, no, no,
12:00
Speaker 3: you're right out of that commercial.
12:01
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, but look at the stuff we learned.
12:03
Speaker 2: Look at the viewpoints.
12:05
Speaker 3: I mean, it was just so much fun to talk
12:09
Speaker 3: to people and realize, hey, you know, we're all– You know,
12:12
Speaker 3: pretty nice.
12:13
Speaker 2: I thought the New Yorkers were going to be rough
12:15
Speaker 2: and tough. They were great. They had a lot of fun.
12:17
Speaker 1: I've always loved them. I always loved New Yorkers as
12:19
Speaker 1: well as people in L.A. And they always sit there
12:21
Speaker 1: and say, why do you like the big cities? I said, man,
12:23
Speaker 1: because if you go beyond what you think you know
12:25
Speaker 1: in these big cities, you're going to meet people that
12:27
Speaker 1: are going to help you become even more creative than
12:29
Speaker 1: what you are now.
12:31
Speaker 3: There is a lot of creativity in a city like that.
12:35
Speaker 1: Please do not move. We'll be right back with Dr.
12:37
Speaker 1: Olaf Kronman coming up next. The name of his book,
12:41
Speaker 1: Detroit Heroic. Trust me, you're going to be putting it
12:45
Speaker 1: inside your search engines to find out more about everything
12:49
Speaker 1: that's taking place. And he does it in a storybook form.
12:52
Speaker 1: I love this. Detroit Heroic from Dr. Olaf Kronman. I
12:57
Speaker 1: got to ask you then, I mean, because I am
12:59
Speaker 1: a writer and all of my work comes from a
13:01
Speaker 1: writing instrument. I don't type into a computer until I
13:04
Speaker 1: know it's time to go in there and do the
13:05
Speaker 1: editing and things. Did you get to write this down
13:08
Speaker 1: in tablets to study your own handwriting? Because I would
13:11
Speaker 1: love to look at that because of the things that
13:13
Speaker 1: you dug up. I would love to see how it
13:15
Speaker 1: emotionally affects your handwriting. Well, like it's a journal. I
13:19
Speaker 1: do a journal.
13:19
Speaker 2: Oh, that's beautiful.
13:21
Speaker 3: And then like my journal, my writing, because, you know,
13:25
Speaker 3: I do it at certain times of the day. And
13:27
Speaker 3: then as I'm tired, my writing gets pretty sloppy.
13:30
Speaker 2: Yeah. But I don't know.
13:32
Speaker 3: But see, if you don't write things down when you
13:35
Speaker 3: see them, you're going to forget them. Yep.
13:37
Speaker 2: Like passwords, man. I forget so many passwords.
13:43
Speaker 1: So did you have a favorite writing instrument? Because in
13:45
Speaker 1: my last book, it was the John Lennon Montblanc writing
13:48
Speaker 1: instrument that helped me write it. And I love, love,
13:51
Speaker 1: love collecting writing instruments that are only dedicated to the
13:55
Speaker 1: books I write.
13:56
Speaker 2: Now, my Montblancs leak. I know.
14:01
Speaker 3: So anyway, I used to love writing in a fountain pen. Yes.
14:07
Speaker 2: But now, as a physician, I was meticulous with my.
14:11
Speaker 3: Handwriting, and I loved writing my clinical notes with a
14:15
Speaker 3: Montblanc fountain pen. But now, we are forced to put
14:19
Speaker 3: everything in a computer and check boxes. Oh, no. That's
14:24
Speaker 3: another reason to write it. Actually, that prompted me to
14:27
Speaker 3: start writing. In medicine, things have changed from the art
14:31
Speaker 3: of medicine we always talked about.
14:33
Speaker 2: When I started my training, now it's the business of medicine.
14:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, I can relate with that so much because,
14:38
Speaker 1: I mean, my entire 47 years in radio, everything that
14:42
Speaker 1: I've ever done has been handwritten out. And when they
14:44
Speaker 1: said to make the move to digital for the questioning
14:47
Speaker 1: and for the research and stuff, I fought it because
14:50
Speaker 1: there's something to be said about the hand on paper
14:53
Speaker 1: coming from the heart and the mind versus I'm going
14:56
Speaker 1: to sit here and tap, tap, tap this into a
14:58
Speaker 1: computer screen.
14:59
Speaker 3: Yep. Like we have, unfortunately, I was in a, Elmore Leonard,
15:04
Speaker 3: the writer, lived right down the street, and he would
15:07
Speaker 3: always write with yellow legal.
15:09
Speaker 2: Pads and pencil.
15:12
Speaker 3: And I think Baldacci does the same thing. He uses
15:17
Speaker 3: the Black Warrior No. 2 pencil on a legal pad. And,
15:22
Speaker 3: you know, there's something about crossing things off manually as
15:26
Speaker 3: opposed to deleting that makes you feel more organic. Right.
15:29
Speaker 1: Have you met David Valdacci by any chance?
15:32
Speaker 2: I have not. Oh, my God.
15:34
Speaker 1: I hope the lords of life give you that opportunity
15:37
Speaker 1: because David and I have been together many times, and
15:40
Speaker 1: we have talked about exactly what you just said because,
15:43
Speaker 1: I mean, he is an inspiration to all writers, even
15:46
Speaker 1: if you're in the third grade or even in high school.
15:49
Speaker 1: That's what I love about you guys is that you're
15:52
Speaker 1: so willing to share in a generation that says, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine.
15:57
Speaker 3: You contrast that with the physician world and the writer world.
16:02
Speaker 3: The writer's world supports everybody and they encourage everybody. In medicine,
16:07
Speaker 3: I write about and go on about the interprofessional violence,
16:11
Speaker 3: which is a whole different topic, which I explore somewhat
16:16
Speaker 3: in the novel as well.
16:17
Speaker 1: Are you going to do a follow-up or what are
16:19
Speaker 1: you going to go, I mean, what is your next book?
16:22
Speaker 1: Only because I love this kind of storyline because it
16:25
Speaker 1: gives me the opportunity to go do research, to find
16:28
Speaker 1: out where you're coming from. And even though the characters,
16:31
Speaker 1: you know, you're creating things here for Detroit Heroic, it
16:34
Speaker 1: still gives me a base to go educate myself.
16:38
Speaker 2: I've got two plans.
16:40
Speaker 3: Well, I've also, I've wrote a memoir, but that's going
16:41
Speaker 3: to be, but one of my characters was a leader
16:46
Speaker 3: in the, um, You know, underworld in Detroit. It's a
16:50
Speaker 3: mosaic of people that I knew. I had a patient
16:53
Speaker 3: once who was the biggest cocaine dealer in the city.
16:57
Speaker 2: Nicest guy in the world.
16:58
Speaker 3: And he gave me all kinds of insight. You know,
17:01
Speaker 3: I asked him, I said, well, how long were you
17:03
Speaker 3: in prison? He goes, well, I did four state and
17:08
Speaker 3: seven federal.
17:09
Speaker 2: I said, man, that's a lot of time. And he goes, doctor,
17:12
Speaker 2: how long were you in school? I said, well, four undergrad,
17:15
Speaker 2: four medical school, four.
17:17
Speaker 3: He said, Doctor, you trained a lot longer than I did.
17:21
Speaker 3: So anyway, so I've got this character from my book.
17:28
Speaker 3: There was a doctor in our area who had the
17:31
Speaker 3: largest cancer clinic consortium. He had clinics everywhere. He would
17:38
Speaker 3: give doctors breaks.
17:39
Speaker 2: On the rent, and so he had a huge referral source.
17:44
Speaker 3: It turns out this guy was– treating people for cancer
17:49
Speaker 3: who didn't have cancer.
17:51
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
17:52
Speaker 3: And he's been away now for about, I think he's
17:54
Speaker 3: been in jail for at least 10 years now.
17:57
Speaker 2: So anyway, I was going to start with that.
17:59
Speaker 3: My gangster gets a diagnosis of prostate cancer and then
18:06
Speaker 3: he has to come to terms. He says, you know,
18:07
Speaker 3: I'm going to redeem myself. So he goes and does
18:11
Speaker 3: all these community service things that only an illegal person
18:15
Speaker 3: can do, get rid of bad people clandestinely and not lawfully.
18:21
Speaker 3: So he does all this stuff, and then he finally
18:23
Speaker 3: realizes that he doesn't have cancer.
18:26
Speaker 2: That he was set up.
18:28
Speaker 1: Oh, no.
18:29
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
18:30
Speaker 3: So then I've worked out how I'm going to do it.
18:35
Speaker 3: And then I have another idea. I worked in the
18:38
Speaker 3: last tuberculosis sanitarium in the country in the 70s, And
18:42
Speaker 3: it was run by these real unusual nurses. And you'd
18:47
Speaker 3: go in this one room and you'd see all these
18:52
Speaker 3: old iron.
18:52
Speaker 2: Lungs lined up.
18:53
Speaker 3: There were probably a hundred of them, okay? Now, once
18:57
Speaker 3: you went into an iron lung, and they were mostly children,
19:00
Speaker 3: 90% died. They didn't survive. It gave me the feeling
19:07
Speaker 3: that all these were like Egyptian sarcophagi. So... So then
19:12
Speaker 3: I'm developing a story where these nurses got into the
19:16
Speaker 3: Egyptian book of the dead to make all these children
19:20
Speaker 3: that they took care of immortal.
19:21
Speaker 2: Wow. I know. I mean, it scares me.
19:26
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it is so in touch
19:28
Speaker 1: with today because am I reading my headlines correctly when
19:31
Speaker 1: I say that tuberculosis is on a major increase right
19:34
Speaker 1: now here in 2026?
19:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:35
Speaker 1: And the.
19:37
Speaker 3: Thing, but here's the thing about TV is that Believe
19:40
Speaker 3: it or not, it's tough to catch. I mean, I
19:42
Speaker 3: was around at all, but the thing is you have
19:45
Speaker 3: to have an underlying, uh, weakness. Um, most people that are, are,
19:50
Speaker 3: are really healthy are not going to catch it. And
19:53
Speaker 3: in fact, like in the 19th century, it was usually
19:55
Speaker 3: women who caught it, who were anemic because of, you know,
20:00
Speaker 3: menstruation and all that. So, um, they were more likely
20:03
Speaker 3: to catch it, but, um, you know, you gotta be
20:05
Speaker 3: careful with it. And, um, The problem is some of
20:08
Speaker 3: the TV now is resistant to some of the drugs.
20:12
Speaker 1: One of the things, I'm so glad that you brought
20:14
Speaker 1: it up in that way because that reminded me of
20:16
Speaker 1: what I wanted to ask you about this because the
20:18
Speaker 1: way that you share the story with Detroit Heroic, and
20:21
Speaker 1: the way that you really put those pictures in my head.
20:24
Speaker 1: Do you feel like a modern-day Laura Ingalls in the
20:27
Speaker 1: way that that was her Wild Wild West? This is
20:30
Speaker 1: your Wild Wild West, and you're giving us these stories
20:33
Speaker 1: that are like, oh, my God, this really could happen.
20:35
Speaker 1: It did happen. But I almost get that vibration, just
20:38
Speaker 1: in the pacing itself, that it's like a Laura Ingalls
20:41
Speaker 1: revisiting our time.
20:43
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, it is a time capsule. It's
20:47
Speaker 2: a time, you know, the.
20:50
Speaker 3: patients beds you had to crank them up at the
20:52
Speaker 3: end um but uh it also um i think shows
20:58
Speaker 3: you that.
21:00
Speaker 2: The medical world can be like.
21:02
Speaker 3: The wild wild west i mean you're you're entering a
21:07
Speaker 3: world that you know has its own uh rules has
21:10
Speaker 3: its own um you know bylaws its own uh customs
21:17
Speaker 3: and If you violate those customs, you do so at
21:21
Speaker 3: your own peril. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. When I retire,
21:28
Speaker 3: I'm going to get into more detail. But for right now,
21:30
Speaker 3: we're just going to write it all as fiction. Wow.
21:32
Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out about you, doctor?
21:35
Speaker 1: Because I want them to really dive into your writing
21:38
Speaker 1: and everything else. Because, I mean, one of the things
21:40
Speaker 1: that caught our attention on this was that it's Pain
21:42
Speaker 1: Awareness Month. But I'll tell you what, this book is
21:44
Speaker 1: going to help you get away from your pain because
21:46
Speaker 1: it's a great escape.
21:48
Speaker 3: It's olafchroneman.com, and I also deal with pain in women
21:54
Speaker 3: who have the Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, which is a different topic.
21:57
Speaker 3: I mean, 10 million women in the United States have it,
22:01
Speaker 3: and yet most of them get the gaslight.
22:03
Speaker 2: Oh, there's nothing wrong with you, sweetie.
22:05
Speaker 3: So anyway, and their pain issues are very dramatic. But olafchroneman.com
22:12
Speaker 3: will give you insight into a lot of my writing
22:15
Speaker 3: and the background, and you You can purchase a book,
22:19
Speaker 3: and also, I put a lot of my fiction— I started
22:22
Speaker 3: writing short pieces, short stories, because that's the only way
22:25
Speaker 3: you can develop. If you write a novel, you sit
22:27
Speaker 3: there for three years, and you don't develop. So I
22:31
Speaker 3: wrote two collections. Nothing's been self-published.
22:33
Speaker 2: They've all been other journals.
22:35
Speaker 3: Sickles, Psychos, and Saints, and— If it wasn't for the nurses,
22:39
Speaker 3: we'd all be riding hearses.
22:40
Speaker 2: Ah, Jesus.
22:41
Speaker 3: I love that.
22:43
Speaker 2: That's funny. I love that.
22:46
Speaker 1: You've got to come back to this show any time
22:48
Speaker 1: in the future, Doctor. 20 minutes with you is just
22:50
Speaker 1: not enough time, man. I love your attitude.
22:53
Speaker 3: We've got to do Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome somehow. Make it kind
22:57
Speaker 3: of an educational thing. I'll tell you, within 10 years,
23:00
Speaker 3: it's going to be, people will.
23:03
Speaker 2: Be more sensitive to it. But right now, I'm right
23:05
Speaker 2: on the edge.
23:06
Speaker 1: So now, what is it that, because, I mean, I
23:09
Speaker 1: guess I'm in a circle of people now where it's
23:11
Speaker 1: like we need to be looking at certain things like that.
23:13
Speaker 1: I mean, because, I mean, my wife was sitting there
23:14
Speaker 1: the other day, and she goes to the doctor, and
23:16
Speaker 1: the doctor goes, hey, look, anything else bothering you? Yeah,
23:19
Speaker 1: when I rub my hand on my temple, there seems
23:22
Speaker 1: to be some pain. Well, she's going in for a
23:24
Speaker 1: brain scan, and her arteries checked on Wednesday.
23:27
Speaker 3: Okay.
23:27
Speaker 1: Because it's something more serious. We tend to ignore our
23:32
Speaker 1: pain because we think it's going to go away. And
23:34
Speaker 1: that's what I love about your book. It's not going away.
23:38
Speaker 3: And women's pain is dismissed to a much greater degree
23:41
Speaker 3: than men. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
23:44
Speaker 1: All right, we got to get together and talk about
23:46
Speaker 1: just that.
23:46
Speaker 2: Please.
23:47
Speaker 1: And because I just think that you are a wealth
23:49
Speaker 1: of knowledge, and the way that you're being so open
23:51
Speaker 1: with it is exactly what we want, and it's not
23:54
Speaker 1: chat GPT, thank God in heaven.
23:56
Speaker 2: Oh, no.
23:58
Speaker 3: No, but you could tell when chat writes it still.
24:02
Speaker 2: Oh, God, that's so true. That's so true.
24:04
Speaker 1: Well, you be brilliant today, okay, doctor?
24:07
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.