Latest / Daniel and Kelly’s Extraordinary Universe / Are we Living in a Simulation?

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Are we Living in a Simulation? · Daniel and Kelly’s Extraordinary Universe

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Have you ever woken up from a dream, walked around
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and then realize you're still dreaming? Yes, And it's made
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: me wonder like, is reality actually part of a dream?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Like an inception or the matrix? How do we know
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: if we are living in a dream or even in
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: someone else's dream, or like a low resolution A bit
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: video game. Hi, I'm Daniel and I'm Jorge, and this
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: is Daniel and Jorge explain the universe, ex playing the universe,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the whole entire universe, all of it. Now you might
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: be wondering, who are these guys who are gonna explain
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the universe to you? Yeah? Who are we? Daniel? Who
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: are we? Anyway? That's a good question. Well, I'm a
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: particle physicist. I do my research at the Large Hadron
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Collider in Geneva, where we smash particles together and trying
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to figure out what is the universe made out of
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: and how does this all work? And mostly enjoy getting
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to play with enormous ten billion dollar taxpayer funded toys. Nice,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And I'm a former robotics researcher. And now I'm a cartoonist.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: And where do you do most of your work or
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: is it a fancy government lab. Yes, I do most
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: of my work in my pajamas in my garage. Um,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: usually starting late in the morning. And how does a
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: roboticist end up becoming a cartoonist? That is a really
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: great question. And I have to tell you that, Um,
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: my parents are also very worried about that whole career trajectory.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: But now, yeah, they're worried about their investment in your
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: in your education. There. I think they're just concerned about
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: my financial well being. But now I used to be uh,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I used to be I have a PhD in robotics.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I used to do research on legged robots and robots
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and could run and like jump around. Um. But then
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: at some point I started drawing comics and I really
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: like that and it kind of became more popular than
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: my research, and so I draw something called PhD comics,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: which is how we met because I used to be
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a huge fan of PhD comics. Yeah, and um, and
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I used to be a big fan of of like
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: the universe and so so until you know, it's almost
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: all of the universe now, and but the universe is
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: sort of where we overlap, right. I do research about
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: the universe, and you try to explain the universe in
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: your science, communication and all that stuff, and so I
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: feel like we have a significant overlap there. Yeah. I
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: just really like talking to people who know a lot
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: of stuff about something and just kind of learning new things,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: you know. I always I always get my mind blown
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: when I talked to someone who's a researcher on something,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: because it's just kind of amazing, like how much we
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: don't know about stuff. You know, you sort of walk
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: around feeling like, hey, we got everything figured out. Um.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: But I always love finding out what people are still
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: like wondering about, and I love pretending to know stuff
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: about stuff and blowing people's minds. So it's a perfect
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: setup right now. I think that some of these questions
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: are really interesting and they're really accessible, and my hope
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: is that people out there will be listening to this
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: stuff and think, oh, man, I wish I could have
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: done physics in high school, or some kid who's who's
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: listening to it out there it gets inspired and thinks about,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: um potentially going into physics, because there's a huge number
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: of really deep, fascinating questions that we still have to answer.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Like the topic of today's podcast Yeah Today on the
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: program is the universe a simulation the whole universe. I
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: love the size of these questions we're asking. Is the
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: whole universe simulation? Yeah? That's uh so, that's a crazy question.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: It's basically the question like are we living in the matrix? Well,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: first of all, the matrix is ridiculous because at its
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: basic premise it didn't work at all, you know, like
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: batteries what I mean, come on, humans consume and or
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: they don't produce energy. So the whole fundamental underlying assumption
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: of the matrix boom, toss it out the window. But
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: the core idea there that did we could be immersed
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: in a deeply realistic virtual reality that we're not aware of, right,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: that we think reality, that what we're experiencing is reality,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: when when actually it's something simulated. That's the fascinating way,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Like what we see and what we hear and what
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: we touch is not like actually real, it's just like
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: a a computer feeding as these sensations to us. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and only I think recently has this possibility even arisen
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: because we do now have virtual reality, right, you can't
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: have fairly immersive experiences and people extrapolate from that. It's
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: getting more real and real the simulated things we can
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the things we can simulate. Absolutely. I had a virtual
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: reality experience a couple of weeks ago. I went to
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: a go kart place with my son and I went
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: into a virtual reality go kart racing thing where you
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: sit in a chair and the chair shakes in your
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: car bumps into stuff, and um, it's totally immersive. And
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: you know, every time I was about to crash into
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the wall, which was a lot of times, I found
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: myself like throwing my arms up to protect myself and
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: ducking and stuff like that, because it really it felt realistic.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: It definitely triggered all of my instincts and absolutely, I
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: mean I would have wet myself ahead and pid just beforehand. Well.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I had a very intense virtual reality experience too recently.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I I am. I read the news and you think,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I hope that because this is crazy. Um, but yeah,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: so that's that's the idea, is that that's the question.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Is the universe a simulation, Like is what we see
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: around is real? Or is it Are we like sitting
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: in a vat of liquids floating somewhere in some alien
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  Speaker 1: beings um factory, being fed all of these sensations and
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: sights and sounds just kind of keep us happy. For
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: some reason, you make it sound so sinister. Why can't
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: it be like a cozy, warm, cuddly environment where we're
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: like nestled in a sunny garden somewhere and being fed
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: this beautiful, wonderful universe of simulations. Right, But you just
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: have to be like, we're experiments in some you know,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: we're subjects in some sinister experiments somewhere. Well, why else
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: would somebody do that? So let's take a step back.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: So this question has been kind of very recently come.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's always sort of been around in science fiction,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: but it's sort of become serious, lady, right, like Elon
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Musk is wondering about it. Right, And so we went
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: out in the street. We asked people if they thought
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: they were living in a simulation. So think for a
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: moment yourself, listener, do you think the universe could be
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: a simulation? Here's what people on the street had to say.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: We're like my trich or somewhere that it could be.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: But I doubt it. I doubt it, you know. But
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: it's because I don't want to tell myself that everything
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I do is the universe seems so let's normal. It
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like that could be fossible. So most people
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: thought maybe it was a possibility, but nobody really firmly
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: believed it. Nobody thought absolutely, I'm convinced. Yeah, most people
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: seem very skeptical, but a lot of them allowed the possibility. Right, Well,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: you never know, but maybe sort of a thing. Yeah,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: And I have to mean I fall into like Kemp,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty skeptical about this idea. Uh. And I like
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: one of the answers that they said, which is like,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's possible. Everything seems really realistic. Yeah,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that's a nice argument, and it's just because the universe
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: around you feel so detailed. I mean you look at
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the tiniest little water droplets and the light sparkling off
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  Speaker 1: of it. It seems like an impossible problem to write
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: a simulation that it's this realistic. It seems impossible, right, Yeah,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: But I don't know if that that's really very persuasive argument,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: because computers are getting faster and faster, and you just
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: extrapolate from what we can do now to what we
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: can do in twenty years. I mean, look at how
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: video games have improved from like Super Mario two super
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: realistic racing games. Now it's incredible how much more realistic
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: they are, from like Pong to like, uh yeah, like
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: World of Warcraft. There's so realistic now. Absolutely, So I
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: don't really think the it's impossible argument is very strong
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: also because you have to imagine if somebody is running
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: our universe as a simulation, who knows what kind of
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: computational powers they have, right, um, and and if they
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: are their universe, the one that our universe is running
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  Speaker 1: as a simulation inside of doesn't have to follow the
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: same laws as our universe. Right If we're in a
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: video game inside somebody else's universe, our video game can
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: have rules that don't exist outside the video game. Right,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: So they like F equals m A or general relativity
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: that could have been something they just made up because
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: they thought they would be fun or interesting, you know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: like like we like we create video games with crazy
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: physical rules. You know, Mario can jump half of the screen,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: he can jump twenty feet up in the air. Um,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: so maybe that's that's why our physical laws are. They're
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: just kind of like, hey, let's make this fun universe
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: where efquals are a kind of the idea that's exactly right. Yeah,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And I think that's partially the origin
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: of this idea. You know, what is physics doing? Ask
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: yourself that physics is trying to figure out what are
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: the rules of this universe? Right, what are the underlying
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: code that runs this universe? And so now that we
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: actually have pretty powerful computer programs, people wonder, well, if
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you were in a computer program and you were trying
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: to figure out what the rules of that simulated universe were,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you'd essentially be trying to understand what was the physics
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: coded into that universe. So in some sense, yeah, you'd
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: be a physicist exactly. Physicists are trying to reverse engineer
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the source code of the universe. Right, regardless of whether
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: you believe the universe is real or a simulation, it
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  Speaker 1: does seem to follow some rules, right. So it's like
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: when you first it's amazing that we can even discover those.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of like when you first play Super
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Mario or something and you're you're just jumping around and
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: move around trying to figure out how Mari moves. You're
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: essentially like being a physicist in that world. That's exactly right.
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  Speaker 1: Everybody who plays a video game for the first time
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  Speaker 1: is being I think that's exactly everybody who plays video games.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: That's right. That you just gave a whole generation of
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: listeners a reason to stop doing their physics homework and
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: turn on their video Thank you. The PC is only
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: valued inside the video game, that's right. But you know,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I think that there's a natural curiosity there, right. The
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: reason video games are fun is because you get to
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: explore a new world and figure out it's rules and
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: learn to master it. Also, the best science fiction is
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: the same way. The best science fiction. You're thrown into
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: a fictional universe and the rules could be different. Usually
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: they are, and you have to figure them out. You know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: bad science fiction they tell you in boring narration overtones
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: exactly how things work. But in good science fiction, you
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: have to puzzle it out for yourself. You have to
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: deduce what the history is and what the rules are,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and how things work in this fictional universe. Have to
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: be like an explorer, like an experiment er. Yeah. I
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: love how we're describing physicists as these like avant gode
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: explorers as the couch potatoes who play video games. That's
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: that's basically not that not that different from reality built
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: couch potatoes. Well, you know, I find it really interesting
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: that you so you're a serious physicist. I mean, like, um,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: you know, you you're like a professor, and you you've
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: you don't sort of scoff at this idea immediately, you know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: like I feel like it's a crazy idea, but it's
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: like something physicists uh uh, actually sort of, they say,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: are forced to say, yeah, it's possible. Right. Well, I
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: think part of the job of being a physicist, and
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: I would take exception with being called too serious. Seriously,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: part of the job of being a physicist is being
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: prepared for making mind blowing discoveries. You know, I think
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: best kind of physics discoveries are the ones that completely
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: change your view of the universe. You know that discover
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: where you discover the universe works really differently from the
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: way you did, And so you have to be open
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: to crazy new ideas if you even have a chance
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: to make a crazy discovery. I guess by serious physicist,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I mean an employed physicist. That's right, I still have
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: a job that makes me a physicist. On that note,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: let's take a quick break I like what you said earlier,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: which is that you know our universe right now, the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: one where even if it was not a simulation, it's
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: sort of like a simulation in that that's kind of
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: what a simulation is. It's like there's laws and then uh,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: you figure out what's going to happen in the next
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: time instant based on those laws. That's I mean, that's
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: basically what a simulation is, right, right, But is the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: universe like a simulation or is a simulation like the universe?
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I mean we can think simulations I know, or Ay
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: says whoa. I mean, we invented simulations in order to
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: model example universes, right, We said, what would happen if
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the universe was like this, Well, let's see, and then
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: we build a little simulation and we test it out.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: So simulations are built to mirror the universe on purpose,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and and we code in the rules of the universe
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: in that simulation because we think there are rules of
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: the universe, and we could have a whole other conversation
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: about like why does the universe have rules? Why do
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: those rules seem to be fairly constant, and why can
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: we discover them and express them in terms of mathematics,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: like enormous philosophy questions we haven't even scratched the surface of.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: And I thought, I really like thinking about, like what
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: is the computer of the universe except for a moment?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: The universe follows some laws, real or simulation. Right, they're
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: like imprinted in the way things are. Yeah, they're set somewhere, right,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: they're fixed somehow. How are those laws enacted? Like when
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: a particle bounces off of another particle, how is that
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: calculation done? You know what determines what is going to happen? There?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: It takes no time, right, it's instantaneous, no lag or
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: delay in our universe that says, oh you know, um no,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: there's no spinning ball of death when something complicated happens, right,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: No matter how complicated it is, the calculation is done instantly.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Like how does that little particle know to follow the rules?
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, It's just it's just done. Yeah,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: And like, what what is there to enforce those rules? Right?
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: If a particle was like, yeah, I'm not gonna follow
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the rules. I like how you try to give attitude
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: to everything like personalities. Yeah, maybe that's why I got
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: um fired from my robotics too. Um um, yeah, but
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: like what what what enforces the laws of physics in
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: our universe? Right? That's right? Well, if you if you
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: like the simulation model, right, then member that inside the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: simulation the rules are followed, but the calculations are done
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: outside the simulation. Right. If we build a simulated universe, right,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: you and me sit down de side when they would
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: build a little mini universe in which cartoonists and roboticists
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: or kings or something, and we can set the rules
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: of that universe, but the calculations for that universe are
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: not done inside that universe, are done in our universe. Right,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: in our computers, like in a simulation or a video game,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: you would say, all right, here's a mass of Mario,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and this is the force that's being applied to Mario.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Therefore he should be accelerating. You crunch the numbers and
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: you say he should be accelerating this much, right, and
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: then you apply that to the video games. Say we're
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: in universe zero, right, and we're simulating universe one. And
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: then as you said, things that happened in universe one
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: are calculated in universe zero right outside of our universe.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: That's the thing I find compelling about this is the
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: universe of simulation question because it touches on that question,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: where are the calculations done for our universe universe zero?
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Is there a universe minus one with some giant computer
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: that's doing these calculations blindingly fast or is it just
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: magically done? So, like, if if we're in a simulation
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: and everyone listening to this is an assimulation, what is
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: computing the calculations in the upper universe, in the outside universe,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: that's right? What is that computer? Like it doesn't have
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: to follow the same rules as our universe, And how
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: is it possibly doing all these calculations um to describe
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: our universe? And this is a question that's fair to
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: ask even if the universe is real, even if it's
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: not a simulation, you have to wonder how is this done?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: How is this um? How is this universe run? You know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really fun way. It doesn't It
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: doesn't go away. That's the interesting thing. It's like, even
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: if we are a simulation, then you still have to
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: answer the question about the aliens is universe, you know,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: like what how how does it work for them? Yeah,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: that's right, it's an endlessly recursive question. And you can
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: owe is ask are we in the stimulation or not?
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And you know, basic things that we assume, like the
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: universe has rules. Those rules don't change with time. That
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: could be different in other simulations or in the you
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: know this the universe that's running our simulation. That could
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: be different. It could be in their universe. The laws
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: of physics change with time, the speed of light is
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: variable with time, all sorts of other stuff. So they
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: were like, hey, let's have some fun. Let's create a
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: video game where the rules don't change. Yeah, for example,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's just one hypothetical, not one that I believe,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: but just it's a possibility. Um. And and that that
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: touches on other really fascinating stuff like say you have
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: some calculation you want to do. It's really complicated. It
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: would take one of our computers a billion years, right,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: If you can arrange our universe in such a way
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: so that it does that calculation for you, Well, our
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: universe appears to be able to do these calculations instantly, right,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: So so you might be thinking, well, that's absurd. Well
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: let me give you a concrete example. So you have
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: a ball that has like ten to the ten atoms
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: in it, and you want to understand how it drops right,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: how it falls right, Well, you could either do that calculation,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: which would take you a billion years, or you could
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: actually just drop a ball right. So in that sense,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: we can use our universe as a computer if what
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: you wanted to know was something that was going to
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: happen naturally in our universe exactly. And that is what
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: experimental physics is, is arranging physical systems to do instantaneous
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: calculations of things we otherwise couldn't figure out. Right. For example,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I kind of said it in a derisive way I can.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I said it is like, that's a silly idea, but
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: you're saying it's the basis of your entire research field.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: That's right, That's what it experimental physics. That's why we
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: do experimental physics because the universe is faster calculating this
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: stuff than we are. Sometimes in particle physics, we don't
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: know how to do a calculation. We're like, well, what
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: happens when this and this hits that? Well, we can't
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: calcul it. Well, let's just go measure it, because the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: universe can do the calculation without us. If you had
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: as a miraculous computer. You wouldn't need to do experiments
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: because you could just simulate every possibility in this magical
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: computer and you would know the answer that's right, And
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: the universe is that computer. Oh that's that's wild. Yeah,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: but you know it's it's not infinitely configurable. Like on
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: your simulation that you write on your laptop, you can
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: control everything, you can do everything you want. In the
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: case of the universe, we can't necessarily do any arbitrary
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: calculation because you can't arrange the universe to do it
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: for you. Like if you want to just know what's
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: going to weather going to be like tomorrow in Australia,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that's a really hard calculation. How would we set that up. Well,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: we'd have an earth, right, and we'd run it forward
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: for a day, But you wouldn't have the answer in advance, right,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: you'd have the answer tomorrow when it's tomorrow in Australia.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: So it's not it's not I'm not saying that the
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: universe is a perfect infinite computer that we can use
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: to answer any question. I'm saying that's kind of the model. Yeah, exactly.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: On that note, let's take a quick break. Well, I
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: find it really fascinating that physicists have come up with
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: ways to maybe check to see if we are in
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: a simulated universe. Right, Like, there's actually there might be
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: experiments we can do to test whether we are neo
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: in the matrix or not exactly. And that's step two,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: right for Step one is have crazy idea. Step two
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: is how could we test this idea? Step two get
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: money for the crazy idea, apply for grant fundings. Are
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: crazy idea? Um, it's pretty hard because you have to
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: make some assumptions about how that simulation is done right,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: and those assumptions are just guesses really, But that's fine.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Like a lot of times in science, we don't know
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: how to approach a problem, so we just make a
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: bunch of guesses so that we can at least try
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: to answer the question. And then maybe later we re
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: evaluate those guesses and try to widen the scope or whatever,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: but just so we can get somewhere. Right, Well, what
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: are some of these ways that physicists think that maybe
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: we could figure out if we're in a simulation. Well,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: one way is to look for things that move super
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: duper fast. And the reason is that if we were
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to simulate a universe. The way we would do it
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: is to slice space up into huge cubes and simulate
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: each cube. Because you can't simulate the whole universe at once.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: You'd want like a bank of computers. You would only
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: simulate the parts that are sort of relevant to the
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: video game players, that's right. And also you would want
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: to have a bunch of computers working in parallel. You
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want a single computer operating on the whole universe.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: You just want to slice it up and say this
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: cube light year cube of space is handled by this computer,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: and this light year cube handle them by that computer,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: and when things cross the boundaries, they have to talk
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: to each other. But that's the way we simulate. For example,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: you know an ice cube forming you have you have
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: a bunch of calculations of these water molecules, but you
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: do them in little cubes um and then you interface them.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: And so people think, what happens when something is going
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: super fast through the universe. It could cross a bunch
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: of these cubes really quickly, and that would be difficult
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: for this simulation to do correctly, and so we'd have
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: to look for little glitches like that, like you would
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: have to look for cases that are really kind of
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: pushing the limits of the computer that's simulating us potentially
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: to see if there are any like like if if
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the simulation breaks them out exactly and that's you put
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: it exactly right. But we have to assume we know
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: something about what's hard for those kind of universe simulators, right,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: which is like so presumptuous to even know. But if
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: what's hard for the universe simulators is the same thing
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: as what's hard for us when we simulate a little
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: mini universes, then one thing that's hard is things across
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: that go really fast. And so there are things out
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: there in space that's that zoom around super quickly and
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: that can potentially give us clues. So we have to
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: assume that a it's hard to simulate the entire universe
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: at the same time, so we have to break it
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: up and be we have to assume that, um, things
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: going really really really fast across these different chunks of
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the universe. Um, that's a hard problem, that's right. And
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: so one thing we look at our super fast cosmic
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: rays cosmic grains are just particles in space zooming around,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and it's a whole other interesting mystery about why those
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: particles are there and why they're going so fast. But
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: they're going incredibly fast, like ridiculously fast, much faster than
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: particles we make here on Earth, even at our fancy
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: ten billion dollar accelerators, and those are going so fast
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: that they might reveal these glitches. So if we look
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: to see if those particles are coming at the same
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: rate in every direction and this kind of stuff, we
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: might be able to get hints that there might be
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: little glitches in the simulation. Cool. So are there any
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: other ideas for testing this? I don't think there are
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: any ideas that have much widespread support. I mean, we're
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: already talking about crazy theories here, but I mean an
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: idea I have is communicate with the simulators, right, Like,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: let's send the message, you know, like like I know,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: like I know what's going on. We figured it out, right, Like,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: say you are running a simulation of a universe, right,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: and you don't tell the beings inside that universe that
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: it's a simulation because that would spoil your experiments somehow, right, Right, Well,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: if they discover it, then you kind of want to
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: know and maybe you be interested in talking to them, right,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: So I think let's try to send a message, you know,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: let's write something on it. It's the equivalent running s
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: OS on the beach or or something. But they would
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: because they're overseeing our our universe, so they would know
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: that we're actually bluffing. We say, ha ha, we found out,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: and they'd be like, no, you didn't. They haven't talked
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: to us so far. Why would they start out we
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: started bluffing. Mmm. That's a good point. But you're assuming
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: we are bluffing, right, What if we sincerely, honestly believe
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: the universe is a simulation. You're right, we don't have
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: any evidence for it, so we can't so we can't
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: scientifically sincerely believe that. Well, I think the biggest sign
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: that we're in a simulation is the fact that Kenna
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Reeves has an age to day. Surely that's that is
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: a glitch in the matrix right there, the matrix. Yeah, well, um,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: what would it be like to be in a simulation? Like?
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: What implications with that? It might be just like this,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: It might not be any different. Yeah, I mean, if
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: we are in a simulation, then we already know the answer.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: What's it like to be in a simulation? But you
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: probably meant something else you probably meant like you mean, oh,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I see, Like are we simulated minds? Like maybe we're
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: not um humans in a vat in a warehouse, in
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: an alien warehouse. Maybe we're like actually like pieces of coding.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: We're like artificial intelligences. Oh my god. Like maybe we're
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: like the fodder in a video game. We're like the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: mushrooms in Super Mario. You know we're here form right,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: sort of two levels there, right, Like one level is
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: you are a brain, and your brain exists in the
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: real universe, but you're being fed information about a fake universe, right,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: But your brain exists in the real universe. That's sort
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: of level one. Level two is you don't exist in
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: the real universe at all except in that simulation, right,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: a piece of code that describes a virtual person. Right,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: you could just exist in that simulation until the question
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: is like basically that are we real, are we conscious?
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Are we actually something? Or are we like completely fake
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: or right? Which is right now an open question in philosophy,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Like say, for example, I could perfectly simulate Jorge's brain
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: and Horee's body, right, and I had that inside a computer,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and it's a completely faithful reproduction right, and just like you,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: it's spent most of its day in pajamas and taking
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: naps in the afternoon. Right, Totally accurate. The question is
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: would that, Jorge feel anything? Would it be a where
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: would it be self conscious? Right? Because really we're sort
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: of computer ourselves, right, Like if we are real, we're
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: just a bunch of like neurons, which are really just
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: like little computers. We're just a massive computers in our brain.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: So maybe maybe there's no difference. Maybe there's no difference,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: right exactly. Maybe the thing that makes us us is
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: just the arrangement of these bits, right, just the information
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: stored in the physical computer that is me, of the
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: physical computer that is you. That's a little hard to grasp.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: It's a little hard to feel comfortable with thinking I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: am just this representation, right, because that means that you
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: could translate me into a totally different representation. Right, bits
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: inside a computer which are also a physical system, or
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: a computer is a physical system with switches and and
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: bits and stuff, and that that could be somehow equivalent
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: to me. The problem is, I don't think we could
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: ever know. And what I mean by that is, say
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I have a computer simulation which is a perfect reproduction
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: of Jorge, Right, I mean not that I'm not perfect already.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: But um, I'm not saying I wouldn't make a few tweaks.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: You want to make a few tweaks? Oh um, But
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: say we had the simulated version before hey, and we
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: asked it, are you real? Well, if I ask you
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: if you're real, you'll say yes. So if the stimulation
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: is a perfect reproduction of you, it will also say
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: it's real. How do we distinguish between something that says
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: it's real, seems real, and but isn't actually aware? Wow,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: we can't. That's a that's a topic known as a
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: philosophical zombie in philosophy circles. Yeah, well, the whole reason
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: we're talking about this is basically, um is that the
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: computers are getting so advanced now that it's actually kind
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: of a possibility A and B. Physicists can't categorically say no,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: that's impossible, and so that's why we're talking about it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: That's right, And there are even some people that make
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: the argument that it's likely, okay likely. Some people even
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: say that's not just like a crazy idea, that's not impossible.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: It's like there's there's strong evidence for it. Not strong evidence.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: But here here's the argument. You can judge for yourself
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: how strong it is. The idea goes like this, say
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: this one real universe, and inside that real universe, somebody
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: invents a simulated universe. Inside that simulated universe, somebody invents
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: a simulated universe. So now imagine a whole set of
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: nested universes, right, each of which is very realistic and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: high fidelity, and his beings in it to feel alive
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and love and hate and and all this kind of stuff. Um,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: then if there are this whole nested set of universes
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: and only one is real, then what is the probability
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: that ours is that real one? So they argue that,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: therefore the probability that our universe is real is small. Right,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: It turns the question on its head, is you see
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: universe is simulation two? Is the universe real? And it
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: suggests that that's unlikely? Oh, meaning that it is it
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: is possible to simulate a universe. Therefore, in the infinity
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: of a time him in space. Um, what's the likelihood
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: that we are real? Not a stimulation? Um, It's it's
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: like non zero, yeah, exactly. It's like if you're in
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: an infinite crowd and only one person is real and
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: everybody else is fake. What are the chances that you're
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the real one? Pretty small? Um. I think that's not
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a very strong argument because it makes a lot of assumptions.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: You know, it assumes that universes will always simulate another universe,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: and those universes would be high fidelity, and that all
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: of them would be like ours, um and that kind
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: of stuff. But you know, it does have that cosmic context.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I like the sender, the fact that it reminds us
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: that we don't really know where we are and what
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the context is, and that is important. As we think
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: we are sometimes it could just be that we are
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Super Mario brothers bouncing around inside a video game. That's
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: that's I think a useful reminder. I've always identified more
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: with LEGI, to be honest, because he's the taller one.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: He's I think he's a yeah, he's just kind of
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: the alert, the clearer brother. He doesn't care about getting
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: all the spotlight right. He's he's over that, he's above it. Well,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: whether we are in a simulation or not. Um, it's
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: really fun to kind of question the nature of the universe. Right, absolutely,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: And it's only in asking these crazy questions that we're
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: going to make crazy discoveries. Right, the universe might not
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: be a simulation, but in thinking about ways to test it,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: we might discover other weird stuff that that gives us
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: another crazy idea, and that one might actually be true.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: So this is we're all physicists in the sense that
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: we'd like to all think about big questions about the universe.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: It's like in trying to break the video game, that's
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: when you discover the hitting easter eggs. That's right, the
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: easter eggs of the universe. That's where we're all hoping for. Cool. Well,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys are keeping it real out there,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: and I enjoyed this discussion. I hope you're keeping it simulated.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: And have a great day until next time.