Latest / WoT Spoilers / A Teaching Chamber - Towers of Midnight chapter 47 - EP575

Transcript

A Teaching Chamber - Towers of Midnight chapter 47 - EP575 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Who boy, is this a long chapter?
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Well, that's why we're only doing one.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no kidding, it was I looked at that
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: and I was like, wow, that is that's a lot
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: of pages, all right, A couple of povs plus the
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: next two chapters go together really well.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, getting near the end of this book, so it's
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: getting denser. We can't argue that we're still in the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: build up anymore.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: No, No, this is certainly the Avalanche, Sandal Lanche, Jordan lanch,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. Yeah, this is luck
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: going on.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's just how books work. I think it's
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: just how books are structured at this point.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think I think with Sanderson there's a
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: particular back end loading of this stuff right there. He
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: has very few accomplishments in the middle of his books,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: which sometimes makes them a little difficult to get through
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: because there's this sort of middle where he's just setting
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: up all these things for what's going to be this
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: really cool ending that you're going to be really excited about.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and he's gotten better about it in his
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: later books. It's not quite as heavy back ended, but
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: that you can see where this is. This is certainly
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: early on in his career where he's sort of like
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: really carefully laying out his pieces, and then there's a
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: mid game where everything's kind of moving and you don't
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: really know why, and then there's this big end game
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: which is very exciting.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this chapter has a lot of really important
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: conclusions that pre date his setup of this book. Right.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: You know, we've got Fayel and Parin negotiating with Elaine
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: about the future of the Two Rivers, Like that's been
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: an inevitable conclusion or collision ever since, like book four, right,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Like as soon as paren was like, I guess I'm
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the leader of this space. Now it's like a CONFI
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: with the Queen of Andor was ordained.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I would say, as soon as he put up the
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: flag of Manethren to distract from what he was actually doing.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: That made it extra inevitable.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Sure, sure, I believe that's the point when it was
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: truly became inevitable that this conflict was going to happen.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's, you know, something that we've been needing
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: to get to for a long time. And then also
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Elida and her traveling ability, making an impact in the
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: shan Chan institution that yes, you know, it's a more
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: recent addition to the plot, but it is not as
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: anderson invention. That had to be addressed. You can't just
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: have a light of Vanish forever. We need to have
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: one more scene with her in the collar.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's addressed, right. But then I sort of went
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: looking through the shan Chan plot and at no point
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: do they like decide not to attack the White Tower.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I was wondering about that.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: They like they decide to aid them in the last battle,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: but there's this like gap where like you kind of
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: don't see too on for a minute, and then she's
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: and then Matt's like, come on and help us out,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: and She's like okay, fine. And I was really looking
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: for the moment when she decided to not open gateways
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: and wipe out the White Tower, and I don't see
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: it anywhere.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was wondering about that. When I read that section,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, wait, that doesn't happen. So she must
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: decide not to or be convinced not to, And I
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: assumed it was part of like a negotiation with Rand.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: But if you're saying that, you couldn't find it then
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: that was is just not because all the confrontations with
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Rand are pretty you know, massive, Let's.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: See, all right, So the next scene, Matt rescues her
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: from her gray Man, they spend the night together. Maybe
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: at some point in that moment he talks her out
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: of it. But then we're in the last battle and
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: we have Rand doing his whole kneeling to the Crystal
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: throne to you know, fulfill the prophecy. So maybe, and
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: then I guess possibly in that moment she signs the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: dragon piece and decides to like not but like she's
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: gonna honor that and not attack the White Tower. That's
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: my only that's my best guess.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess it might not even be a matter
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of deciding to not attack the White Tower so much
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: as like the chest moves just preclude it. If she's
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: allied with the Dragon Reborn, she can't attack one of
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: his strongest allies. Until you know, this present issue is
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: dealt with and the strategizing's moved on. I feel like
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that should have been given a little bit more airtime
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: for her to like look to solution and be like, well,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I guess we have to put those plans on ice huh.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Because she ends up coming to their aid after they're attacked, right.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Right when the Sharons come in. Then the shawn Chan
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: are like, no, no, we're the people with the stupid
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: s name in this continent.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Right, We're the weirdos who are going to attack you
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: with the power within slave channelers. God damn it, Like,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: don't copy our thing.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the shan Chan and the Sharans like, we are
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: gonna be We're gonna be tripping over our tongues when
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: we get to those sections. It's gonna be worse than
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: GWayne and the Lane.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: What do you mean? I always get those right?
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: This is not literally one of the reasons I wrote
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: to you guys in the first place, to be like,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: can you please get the damn names straight? I will
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: be a co host on your freaking podcast just to
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: get the names right more often.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: It's funny how long ago that feels that, Like, I
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: know I still mess up the names, but I still
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: but I know which ones which now.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Well, I think we're all better now having than we
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: were before this podcast, or I think we've all collectively
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: gained some reflexes.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I've lost some too. Though it's been eight almost nine
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: years now, as in what probably by the time this
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: podcast comes out, it'll have been nine years for sure.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Wild Yeah. All right, So with that being said, should
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: we actually start the chapter properly?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's uh, yeah, because you're going to cut most
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: of that, right. No, Well, great banter, chapter forty seven,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: and our symbol is the Adam because there's a lot
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: of imprisoning the ice ad I the former Amerlyn Well and.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Like literally the POV with the Sean Chan and the
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Domani is called the teaching chamber or she says that
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: this is her the teaching chamber.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Right, right, So that's all based around that scene. There's
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: a couple of other scenes in this one too, but.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for once, the symbol and the title are completely
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: lined up, right.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I always try and look for, like is there a
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: cross reference with the teaching chamber, And I wonder if
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: like the throne room could be considered a teaching chamber
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: as well, right in this first scene.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Well, but it's not really the throne room. It's the
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: room off to the side right where they actually retreat
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: to have the discussion. The throne room is just the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: big public facing thing, and then the actual chamber where
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: the important decision happens is like more of a sitting room.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Right, so maybe that could be called maybe it's like
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: the teaching room or the teaching chamber as well, and
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: that would be a nice little fun overlap between the
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: two if that was its nickname.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I think you're stretching, but I'm sure it's good for
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: your back at your advancetage.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: How did you know?
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: I'm just you know, I gotta crack it every once
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: in a while, and really just just I gotta come
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: up with wild theories every once in a while, or
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: that muscle is just gonna like atrophy, and we wouldn't
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: want that, because come on, what's half the fun if
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: not coming up with crazy head cannon.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: That's true, that's true. I didn't really see a good
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: like read in Chunk for this. It's very boring. As
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: an opening, the tld R is that Fayel and parent
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: are writing up to the palace, kind of thinking about
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: how that's gonna go. We get the great line from
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Galade that he's already caught up with the lands and
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: he doesn't need to see her anymore. Autistic do you
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: want to see your sister?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: No, we have had our conversation we are good. I
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: will go now bye.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I have achieved the appropriate amount of interaction time for
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Enrichmond in my enclosure. I will not be needing another
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: visit for another six months. Good to go. It's amazing,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: it's amazing. But yeah, otherwise it's just by You'll being
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: nervous and going over her plans for the umpteenth time.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: As they approach the Palace, I.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Would say, there's one important thing. Grady tried to make
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: a gateway to the Black Tower and could not, which
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: means there is a dream spike there. So we know
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: at this point, you know, timeline match up, right, that
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: dream spike has been activated, the trap has been closed
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: in the Black Tower.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Paren is now experienced enough with dreamspikes to
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: be like, yeah, I'll go check it out tonight, right.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Like I'm sure there's probably a dome.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, oh, Grady, that seems like a problem. I'll
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: go fix it. I'll go do my dream thing.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Fix it.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: It'll be no big deal.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Right. We see the cloud cover has broken around Camlin.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I'm convinced that's because Elaine's there and she's linked to
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: Rand through the bond, and it's Rand's effect.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely does make me wonder what's going on where? Well,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I guess Avianda is either has been with Rand ers
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: in the desert where there are no clouds. But how's
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the cloud cover over?
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: Men?
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Where's men? Ohmen's with Rand, Men's with Rand again?
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, I would assume that if the three
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: wives were all in different locations with cloud cover, there
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: would be three whole punches in the cloud cover scattered
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: across the continent.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Because it's veins of gold, right, and they're the veins
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: of gold, and that's what broke the cloud cover in
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: the first place. So of course his loves are going
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: to be cloudless.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Because gold is sunlight is connection through the sky, through
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: the clouds of the dark one.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: All that jazz, let there be light. The dark one
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: is dark, right, Like it's a whole thing. It's an
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: analogy and it works on a lot of levels. Yay,
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: gold is Land's hair. Gold is Iliana's.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Hair, iliana sun hair specifically, let's see parent gives Fayel
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the lead in the diplomatic negotiations, refuses piling up in
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the streets. I'm not clear on why now that the
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: siege is over, but I guess there's a lot of
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: people there because end times, and then they go to
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the throne room by a different route than fight you'll remembers,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and she wonders why. I'm assuming it's because the palace
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: has rearranged itself. I'm assuming that that's why the route
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: is different than she remembers. I don't think it's like
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: a nefarious plot to confuse them about the route. I
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: think literally just the old route doesn't exist anymore.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I think the refuse is just to point out that,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: like the city is really full and they're just having
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: a hard time handling all the all the numbers of
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: people end.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Times, refugees. It's not siege specific anymore.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Now, it's just yeah, exactly, Camlin is one of the
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: few places that's safe anymore that has food, right, so
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: you have you know, So it's just all the refugees. Yeah,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: that's my belief about not that like, oh, she can't
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: manage the trash.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: That was why I was confused. It's like I thought
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: we were past that question. But no, you're right, just
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the sheer population.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, because the sentence right before, that's inside the walls,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: the streets teemed with people holding is the market packed.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, so it's just literally the municipal services
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: are overwhelmed by the population. All right, fair enough, So.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're marching in. They get like, they take their
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: big group and make it smaller, and then make it
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: smaller still until it's just like, you know, it's like
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: every they start with a thousand and then they're down
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: to one hundred, and then they just take take the
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: guards with them to see a lane, and then they
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: leave the guards behind. And this is this whole winnowing
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: down until it's just like paren and his you know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: immediate friends and wife with Elaine.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: It's what you do, you go, because this is not
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: just about parent and Elaine talking about their feelings on politics.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: This is also about showing the entire population that can
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: see that there is a powerful force paying respect to
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: a larger institution. And so you have to bring a big,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: giant train with you at first, and then as you
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: get closer and closer to the actual conversation, you can
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: k the stage and shrink the number of players until
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: you're down to, yeah, the six most relevant people and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: that's it. But it's theater. There is so much theater mm.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Hmmmm, which is kind of funny to see between two
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: characters who we, you know, would think of as friends, right,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: because they're two of the main characters. They're friends with
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: all the same people. But they've never really met, right
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Elaine and paren as far as I know, this is
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: when they are introduced for the first time. Well, we
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: did say, no, they've met. They've met, that's right, because
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: they met in Dragon Mount in Tier the Stone the Stone. Yeah,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: you lose some things over time, Okay, you lose some reflexes.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: It's been a while since we've talked about the Stone
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: of Tier, but yeah.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like two weeks since we went over this exact topic.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I know, shut up, but yeah, they we agreed then
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: that they've never had a meaningful interaction. They've been in
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the room, they've been introduced, they've probably like said hi
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: at the line for punch at the company get together,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: but like they've never really talked politics or anything else
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: for that matter. And they're not just coming together as individuals, right,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: They're coming together as leaders of groups with demands that
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: they have to represent.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: And I would say they have both changed significantly since
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: their time in the Stone of Tears. She's gone from
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: spoiled my mom will get you to legitimate queen. And
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: he's gone from shy axe wielding bserker to you know,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: leader of one of the biggest armies you know in
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: all of the lands.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And they've both dealt with a lot of really intense
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: level ups in terms of responsibility for other people's deaths
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and how do I lead? How does my arrogance get
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: in the way? Like they've both passed through a lot
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: of different crucibles, so that way, we as the readers,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: are like, Okay, I feel comfortable that they've both grown
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: enough that this is going to be an adult conversation
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: with a reasonable outcome.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Not to mention personal power ups right the way she's
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: a much more powerful channeler, the way he's got much
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: more powerful dream walking and Mahollanier now and all those
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: things where he's yeah and soon teleportation.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: And also like they're both married now. Yeah, you know
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: they were both dating last time they hung out, like
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: they were both in the early stages of dating their
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: eventual future spouse, but now they are both married.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: It's really why I would have no problems stretching this
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: series out over like if it was written to cover
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: a ten year span rather than a two year span. Yeah,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, like there's enough pauses where you can
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: be like and the year passed and things were relatively
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: stable for a while. It would be hard to explain
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: why select the Forsaken Satin did nothing for that long.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And like, some people can't just get lost in the
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: wilderness for ten years, right, like they can for like
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: the one or two years that the book goes by.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I would. I would have no problem stretching
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: it out just to because I think the characters changed
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: so much it's hard to believe it all happens in
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: the span of you know, less than three years.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, college is a wild WorldWind experience where you
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: do grow a lot, but it is only a few
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: years of your life, like those events in these books. Yeah,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: they could use a decade to breathe instead of just
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: all being packed into a few semesters.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Like it would give him a chance to like solidify
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: his rule over certain kingdoms before he went on to
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: the others. It would feel a little more realistic. And
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: I get where magic and Gateways shortened that time span
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: quite a bit.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: I like the part where as they're walking through the hallways,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: fail thinks about how when they were here before, and
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Rand was here, like Rand looked insane as hell, like
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: that's back in book six. But it's like he hadn't
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: even gone into the box yet, blah blah blah blah blah.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: And She's like, no, he was insane, like from the
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: outside as someone who didn't know him and wasn't in
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: his head. That man was Bunkers at that.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Point, No question, that glimmer of madness it was in
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: his eyes.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Yet, Just what's a good enough reader of people? I
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: think she's the most correct here, not us who were debating.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Is he mad? I don't know. I don't think he's mad. No,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Fayel knows what's up.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: He was mad well, And if he's got the dragon scepter. Right,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: that's after snow Igloo, which is I think after his
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: trauma and after being in the box. Right, No, No,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: it's before the box.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I think it was so long before the box. It
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: goes and he's still in the waist and the box
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: is way after he's come back out into the web.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're right, you're right, you're right.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Relativistic dating, it's the geology skill. So yeah, they go
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: in there and more gaze is hanging out as in
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: a clear advisory position next to a lane, and then
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Aleandra makes sure to bow more deeply than Fayel. Right,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: everyone's positioning themselves in a very specific kind of It's
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: not a pyramid legally, but it is a pyramid kind
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: of shape. You know, everyone is literally physically showing with
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: choreography how these power dynamics are going to work.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Right that they're all behind Paren essentially, and Paren and
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: will be there all behind Fayeel, and Fayel's with Paren.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Well no more Gaze is with Elaine.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, well yes, obviously yes, but the rest of them.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: But it's it's so funny to see her on the
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: opposite side of that, considering she's been with them for
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: such a long time, like serving them tea, and now
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: she's sitting in this position of power on the other
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: side of the aisle. And yeah, no, it is. It
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: is a little bit like it feels a little betrayal, right, like,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: and I get that she advocates for them, but it's.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Not a betrayal. That's what she said she was going to.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Do, I know, I know, but like, oh my god,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: it's just like or Gueze, you're very hard and like
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: the separating the duty from what she did in hiding
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: for them. I think I would have a hard time
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: with that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: You're with fayeel I'm feeling salty about it.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely salty about it.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with Paren. I'm like, I don't know, she
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: did what she had to survive. It's it's fine, it's whatever.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: But I mean, you and Fayle aren't wrong. It's just
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: different emotional takeaways from the same facts. But she does
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: speak up pretty aggressively in this, like when the meeting
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: is starting to spiral out, like more gaze is the
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: one who steps in and cools the problem.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that does help quite a bit.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Elaine's pissed that they used her as
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: a servant. I think that's silly because that was literally
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: her cover. Like what we're you supposed to do? No,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: you're the cunavan to Ryan Sitsch Like, No.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I don't think she's pissed so much as she's like, oh,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I can kind of use that negotiation if I want to,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: as like this talking point, and I'm just like, no,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: you can't.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: No, I reject that entire premise, Elaine. I don't think so.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Faya is that they're being too salty, but you are
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: being too too sea folky about this Two Eyes to Die.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: What do you think about when she gets the tray
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: with the one power and feels like a demonstration and strength.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: I think Elaine's just like tired and doesn't want to
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: walk over a bit up the tray.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I think it has more to do with that she's
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: glad that in this moment she's able to hold the
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: power right because she's like all the struggles with pregnancy
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: in her moods and this is in her head. She's
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: probably going, oh, yeah, my moods are cool, my control
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: is good, I can channel. I'm just going to revel
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: in the fact that I can channel and be calm
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: for this meeting. I think that's what it is. I
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: don't think it's a flex.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, do you think maybe he's that's Sanderson saying, hey,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: she's cool and calm, that she's not gonna have like
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: a weird emotional fluctuation in this one because she's holding
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: the power.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Maybe that that would be the logical conclusion from what
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: I said. But also I don't know.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know, or do you think he just was
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: doing something else with the doing the power play thing
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: and just didn't even think about how that would.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know, actually metagiming at what Sander said was
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: trying to think there, I don't know. I don't know.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: And then there's this argument between paren and Elaine where
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: she like, you're rebelling and he's like, yeah, we're not
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: going to pay taxes because you don't help us, and
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it's not rebelling because you don't help us.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's like, well, I wasn't out there because
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you didn't need me to be out there to keep
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: you out of rebellion. And it's like, that is a
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: solution in search of a problem, is what that is?
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: You were saying that the only reason that you need
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: to have a presence in a place is to control
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the people, not to It's just her argument is so spurious,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: and in fairness, she does give it up pretty quickly.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: But yeah, she goes into this really like entitled, like
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: she just expects parent to ask to be a lord,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: to be pardoned and to start paying taxes, to be
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: grateful to be allowed to buy into the great and
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: glorious civilization that is the nation that was abandoning them
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: for the last six hundred years. And didn't even have
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: the capacity to know that they needed military aid back
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and book for right, like it's so entitled in parent
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: in typical working class fashion, is like that doesn't seem
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: very reasonable. I feel like the workers should own the factory.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: You know, we have had the means of production sees
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: for the past several centuries by virtue of you not
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: being around, So why would we change that?
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: And then it was this thing from Fayel that I
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: thought was a little fourth wall breaking where she's like,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I wonder if Benethron had to fall, if the two
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: rivers had to rise to provide a place for Randolthor
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: to be raised among farmers with the blood.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, Sanderson, now I do see you there, and I
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: do need to describe your fingerprints a little more thoroughly.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Off of that, that was two on the nose. The
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: fourth wall was there serves a purpose, and you have
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: proven why the fourth wall needs to exist with this comment.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: When characters start talking about like what the pattern is doing,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and that clearly is just like, oh, that's something the
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: writer's doing. It feels and they're not like an I said,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I talking about like the fate of a character in
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: some ironic way when they're actually like legitimately talk. I
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: don't know this. This feels very like, oh, yeah, guess what.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: There had to be a prophecy that sent his mother
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: off to the you know, Shaiel whatever fu original name is,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Tara Tygraine Ti Grain off to the waste, so that
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: there could be a war, so that there could be
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: the right ruler in place that he could go to
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: the waste. It's just like, yes, yes, we understand the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: history and the plot and the causation right, like you
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: don't need to spell it out.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That was one of the fun things in doune Is.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: They were like, hey, you know this thing that's really
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: obvious and dumb, let's just make that an entire reason
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: to be more mad at the Bene Jazerat for existing.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: It's great they lay that out.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Which what did they lay out? I didn't catch the reference.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: So the entire prophecy of maudeb and all of that,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: it was all seated there by the Bena Jeser like
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: as just just in case kind of plot, Like they
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: literally set it all up just in case some day
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: someone needs to use it. And then Paul and Jessica
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: show up and Jessica's like, ah shit, all the pieces
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: are here for me to put together one of these,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: you know, ikea messiah things. And you know it's I
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: liked that take on it where it was like, we're
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: going to take that fourth wall and use it to
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: build a fifth wall. But uh, this is not that.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: And the whole thing about that is there is some
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: prophecy ability in the Beny jess writ right, So it's.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: True acid does let you see the future in that universe?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Yes? Right, so you know there's unbelievable of like is
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: it a prophecy that they made up and seated or
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: is it something that they saw was going to happen
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: and seated it so that that person could rise to
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: power and they were creating that person, right, That was
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: the whole point of the breeding program.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which we don't need to get all into the
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: weirdness of Dune. But I'm just saying, when it comes
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: to explaining prophecies, there is a right way to do
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: it and there is a not so right way to
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: do it. This is the latter.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: See now I kind of want to get into the
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: weirdness of Dune.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Look, I'm telling you, I can be seduced into starting
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: any number of podcasts. It will be bad for my health,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: but I don't know how to stop listen.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: The fear is the mind killer. Just more, don't fear
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: more podcasts. You can do more. Put your hand into
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: the box, enjoy the pain.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Look once this podcast is over. Okay, seriously, back to
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: the thing. So essentially, I fay Ya proposes that we
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: retcon that this was always a legitimate arrangement, and Elaine
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: says yes, and we can use dragon reborn halo effect
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: to justify anything else we need for the future. Wam bam,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: thank you, ma'am. It's done. You can just do what
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: you've been doing. But now there's a royal letterhead on
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: the proclamation.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: And I think they're talking about bringing nations together, right,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: and I think the five nations, right, So they geal
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: it on mayn and or Kyrie in and.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Then the tu versus as a bonus sixth because, as
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: we're going to see in the upcoming two chapters, right,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the Pact of the Griffin is going to be necessary
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to counter the shaun Chan Empire and its holdings. Right,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Like the shaun Chan Empire is got a lot of
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: satellite states, so the resistance nations are going to need
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: to also be in a coalition. So yeah, Basically they're saying,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: we come with a lot of connections, a lot of power,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: and we want to team up with you. All we
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: want is a little bit of agency and then you
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: gain a lot of allies. And Elaine is very pragmatic
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: and goes, yes, and I want to create an arranged
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: marriage with children that aren't even conceived.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Yet, and parents like fuck, no, I'm not that kind
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: of person.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And says we'll talk about it.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He's like, we don't have to force them, but
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: we can encourage.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And Elaine is willing to let that be enough, because
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you keep them in the same social
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: class hanging out with each other, odds are they're going
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: to pair up on their own, because.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at look at the lineage of these kids.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Some thrown and or Saldaea two rivers. I mean, that's
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: that's an insane tract of land that spreads across the
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: entire continent and basically splits it in half.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Right, those kids are going to be having horseback riding
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: lessons in summer camp together, regardless of if they have
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: actual arranged marriages. Some of them are gonna end up
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: deciding to pair up. It's just it's, yeah, it's inevitable
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: if you keep them. You know, if there's enough kids
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: and you can have a whole boatload of them, something
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: something politically productive will come out of that.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Mm hm. They settle on the steward of the two
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Rivers as a title for paren instead of like something
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: grand noble or whatever they were talking about.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Before, high Lord whatever.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: High Lord. Yeah, it's just.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: A way for him to have equal political standing with
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: economic exceptions to the other end or in lords. And
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: then there's this really interesting line here about the real
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: houses Vander will accept as blah blah bla. We'll have
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: him appoint parents linus his stewards instead of you're pitching
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: your redicules within my borders. I'll be seen alive. The
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Dragon Reborn, the man I love to elevate his good friends.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, at what point did we make it
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: public knowledge that she loves the Dragon Reborn as part
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: of just government state?
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I noticed that too.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: So if he's the man you love, how are you
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: hiding the father of your children's identity?
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. I feel like once they killed Melar, they
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: kind of had to like go with, yeah, it's Rand.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: But they didn't because Elaine literally or I Faya literally
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: rolls in there wondering about the identity of the father.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Meller's been dead for a hot minute by the time
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that this meeting happens.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Like I know, and we did just see her tell
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: her mother like, oh, it's Dragon, but we don't. We're
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: not spreading it around, and it's like.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, exactly, And I feel like I feel like you
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: were spreading it around if you're gonna I mean, I
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: guess maybe she means after the last battle, once people
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: are worried about all of the details, it'll be fine
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to have. I don't know. It just felt really premature
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: anachronistic to me.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: It's like, once he's dead, I can just go ahead
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: and tell everybody.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, the Mandor will be fine with the fact
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: that my children are born from the dragon reborn, like
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: that's just a given. I'm like, I don't oh, I
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: don't know. I thought that was weird and anachronistic feeling.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: It does feel very circular logic, but I feel like
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: that's the point is it's just circular logic. To be like,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: we're just going to make this happen.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I just feel like that's a weird thing to say,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: really blase, like after you've made such a recent deal
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: of the fact that you're still keeping it secret, Like
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: you the man that you love is a secret, the
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: dragon reborn is not the man that you love. As
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: far as you're front facing, pr arm.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Goes, well, I agree. That feels like a plot hole.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: That feels like a plot hole where she just kind
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: of forgets that, Oh yeah, I'm keeping that a secret.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That seems real odd to me.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: But it just it feels like now that she's queen,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: now that like the last battle is starting, now that
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: her pretend it's like that plotline ended, we're done with that.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what it feels like to.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Me, except that it literally didn't. It really didn't, So
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: that's just a mistake. So they talk about taxes and
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: how it's good not to execute paren and then we
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: get a little update on Agwain being Amberlin. Just randomly
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: by the bye. Parent's like, oh, yeah, that's cool, and
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like more followed through, more follow up, more talking
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: more talking about that.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Well, like parent knows because I think he saw her
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: in the World of Dreams being Amberlin.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and he just shrugs it off like it's
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: not worth talking about, Like come on, man, come on, like,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: shouldn't you be whatever.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: He doesn't get why they're in the wolf dream. I
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: don't know. He thinks it's his own place.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: The entitlement is not only on a Land's.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Part, No, it's it's just a weave.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so yeah, then we get to close this out.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: We get Elaine describing the whole Agwaine wants to prevent
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Ran from breaking the seals. We're getting together a coalition
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: to convince him about that, and Paren does a very
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: eyes to die thing and says, I think I can
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: help with that, And we know later on everyone is
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: shocked when he's like, no, no, no, Rand's the one that's right.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I came along to convince you all to listen to Rand.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I can help prevent you from
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: stopping him. Basically is what he's saying, because he's like, no,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I get it. You know. He takes it from the
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: blacksmith point of view, right, you can't reforge your broken sword.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: You have to melt it down and start new.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't tack weld a sword back together. You
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: melt the whole thing down into liquid and start the
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: fuck over. I mean not that they have welding, but
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: And that takes us to the Fortuana pov h.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pov over to North Korea. I mean Sean Chan.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I mean technically it is shann Chan on this side
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: of the ocean, but you know what I mean.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: So here's where I really feel like this is the
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Tuan from before she was kidnapped. Yeah, and we just
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: lost all the character development that she had during that
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: entire journey.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Well when she upgraded, when she leveled up, she left
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: all of her baggage behind.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: It's just it just drives me nuts. It drives me
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: nuts that, like, why are we writing a character that
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't exist anymore? This could be like copied and pasted
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: into you know, book seven, and I would have believed
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: it more.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: It's like she literally underwent a personality change as part
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: of becoming Queen Empress.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Which like her and a Lane both.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if they had the Crystal throne here and she
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: had gone through a literal crystal throne ceremony, I might
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: be like Oh, maybe the mind control works multiple ways,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: but all we have is the pomp and circumstance to
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: explain her change, and of course the author transition.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Right everybody kissing her ass basically. But yeah, I just
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I feel like like she was sort of understanding that
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I said, I and sold On are people too, and it's.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Just like, I don't know if she ever did. I
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: honestly don't think she did. The way that she made
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: comments at the end of enjoying her discussions with satala
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: an On about the basic concept of human rights just
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: made me question if she was doing anything more than
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: playing nice with people she disagreed with. But I do
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: agree that this feels like the two on that would
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: have stepped off the boat if we had seen her
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: more in her full position instead of being under the veil.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: But again, we've really never seen her out from under
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: the veil. This is the thing, too, is like she
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: was literally under the veil from the moment we met
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: her until now. This is the first time we've seen
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: her out from under the veil. So maybe it's not
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: so much a regression of the writer as I mean,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: it is regression of the writer. But maybe we can
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: explain it more with we never got to meet unveiled
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: tou On.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Mmm. Fine.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Plus she's leaning in, she's leaning into being empress now right.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: She used to be a free agent with a little
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: bit of choice, and now she's wearing a dress that
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: says the Empress is shan Chan. She has to be
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: lifted into her thing like she's she's not questioning any
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: of that. She's just falling into the thing she was
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: trained to do since she was a child. So it's
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: gonna be regressive because she doesn't care about personal growth.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: She just doesn't. I don't think she ever did, even
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: under Jordan's ben I don't think she cared about anything
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: other than playing the people around her for her own ends.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: But we just we're back to her like relaxing by
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: breaking demany completely, like just casually. That's how you relax
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: by breaking living women.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: You've relaxed by torturing people or just watching them get tortured.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: It's like you are the worst kind of oppressor. You
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: enjoy watching people's spirits get broken, whether or not you're participating,
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Like you are a deeply broken person who should probably
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: just take a long walk off a short peer.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Well and continuing the brokenness, just like the oh my god,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: like Matt and Beslyn might actually not actively try and
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: betray me. And then this whole scheme from a Gallgun
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: about how he like hired a bunch of assassins to
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: kill her and then killed them before they could kill him,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: And that's showing cunning but dedication but also ambition, And like,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I just don't understand these people who aren't trying to
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: assassinate me. What it's like. That's a deeply, deeply broken society.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that needs to be burned down and started over.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: That is an irredeemable social structure that you have positioned
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: yourself on top of. Like literally the concept of watching
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: the money being broken soothes her, Like your nervous system
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: is so warped, your humanity is so in abeyance, if
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: this is what soothes you, like, I've read a lot
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: about how acts of racial violence in our actually United
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: States history are like soothing to the nervous system of
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: the perpetrators, which I find just incomprehensible. But I've read
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: it enough times in enough context to believe that it's
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: just something I can't wrap my head around, rather than
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: a fake thing. It's part of our national reckoning, on
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: our racist legacies, that we don't understand how our nervous
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: systems got fucked by perpetuating that violence for so long.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: And here's two on, just like fucking living emblem of
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: all that is wrong with that wearing symbols of power,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: watching people being tortured for fun, but also needs to
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: be lifted by her property into her chair because she's
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: so bedecked with crap. I just I don't know the
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: crystallization of all that is wrong with the United States.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: In two on, this tiny little black woman just really
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: gives me a lot of full psyche squicks a lot
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: of different ways.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Can I make it worse for you?
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Please?
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Do?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: The only reason I believe she's so awful is because
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: we need to torture Alida aka Sufa, right, And because
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: what does this book due to women? It imprisons and
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: tortures them. It kills the men bad guys, but the
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: women get imprisoned and tortured, and we have to see
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: that torture on screen. It has to be presented to us.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: And two on, somehow not the bad guy two on
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: somehow escapes having any kind of punishment, any kind of retribution,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: even any kind of personality change. She just gets to
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: be cool because she's a tiny little doll with super
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: dark skin who enjoys slavery. It's weird. It's just this
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: whole And again, I wanted to see Alida again after
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: being taken. I wanted to see the impact of her
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: bringing traveling to Schanchin. That was such a big, massive moment.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: I needed like one more little epilogue ps of payoff
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: But I don't really feel like we get that because
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: this is not the traveling. Yeah, she just opens the
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: gateway and sees a bald eagle, you know, like that's
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: like and takes out of.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Which is a powerful omen, don't you know. Yeah, right,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: red tailed hawk shriek here.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: And then they just kind of have gateways like everybody
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: else does, where they just kind of use them to
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: go have meetings with each other, right, and show up
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: to the battlefield in the last battle.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's handy, but they could have learned it
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: any number of ways, right as soon as they made
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: alliance with Rand, that could have been like his olive
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: branches will give you traveling, and like that shows an
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: amount of trust in you as allies. Like we didn't. Yeah,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: this does not serve the purpose it should have served.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: But I also did. I mean, if you're gonna steal
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: a lighta and make her a demani, I do want
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: to see her as a demani. MM would have rather
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: that she just you know, managed to fall off the
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: rockin because she struggled so hard and that was her end.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: That would have been way better, you know, like I'd
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: rather die than be a slave, and she manages to
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: achieve that, you know, that would have been great.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I would have loved that she was on one of
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: the rock and that again fireballed.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: And she had one final moment of gratitude to Agwayne
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: for saving her. Yeah, that would have been good.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: She like fell to her fiery death. Yeah, and then there.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Would have been a sense of a baton pass of like, no,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: the new Omorland saved the old Ombreland from like a
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: fate worse than us. That that would have been good.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: That would have been good. They could have found her
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: body in the woods afterwards.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: You know, right with the sort of Shoden freud of
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: letting a Gwain fucking fireball her enemy to death.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Right, it would have been really cool. All the enemies
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: at once. Also, no one ever mentioned having to deal
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: with like burned broken rock and bodies scattered across the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: plains nearby Tarvalin. Like, I don't think that she was
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: vaporizing them. I think that there were like burnt and
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: broken dragon bodies crashing down into the area. No one
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: ever talks about that.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm assuming the warders had to take care
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: of it, and they don't get to, you know, complain.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: No, I mean like off of the island, like once
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: they had flown like far enough away, they would have
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: been crashing down like out over the river and like.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then they probably just ended up in the
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: river and swept down river.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: This is the origin of dinosaur bones.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Do you mean dragon bones? I mean they're dinosaur bones.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because dinosaurs aren't real obviously, they're legends from Seanchan,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: their shadows spawn.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I love the way Elia is just like willing to
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: give away other women's lives for her own. Just what
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: of that?
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: If you ever had a question of if she was
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: an appropriate candidate to be ombrelin, that's your proof she
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: was a bad omborline. She's like, I will give you
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: twenty of my most powerful people in exchange for no, Nope,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you don't deserve to be Omereline. Agwaine would have thrown
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: herself into a thousand pits of lava before beginning to
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: utter those words.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Agwaine would never especially because she has the O throat
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: on her. So you know, it's the truth, right, It's
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: not like a bargaining technique or anything like that. It's
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent the truth.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, she is. I mean, it's the thing about brittleness, right,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: that's the thing with someone who's so strong that they're brittle. Right,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Once they break, they're broken broken. She was so sure
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: of how right she was that now her brain pressels
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: are like, it is right for me to elevate myself
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: above others in this way. It is right for me
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: to survive at any cost, even the cost of betraying
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: everything I stand for.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Intellectually, we get a name drop her brother, Halveate. I
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: didn't look that up. Let me do that really quick.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But yeah, So apparently her brother enjoyed training wild
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: girl like she enjoyed training to money. I'm assuming this
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: means he was something of a cowboy, you know, like
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: taming Mustang's kind of.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Deal and Halveate is named for Matthew Halveth, a fan
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: of the Wheel of Time.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, a fan of the Wheel of the Time. Nice,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And he died in that sentence he was introduced, and
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: we also learned that he died. He was assassinated.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, now it's his introduction and his death. So that's
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: just offscreen life and death reference to the brother of Tuon.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: But I guess that guy gets to be get to
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: say I'm the brother of Tuon from now on.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: M Yep, he does, he does.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I guess if that's what he wants. I don't know.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want that two on being a wildly problematic character,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a character.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I just she had so much potential to have a
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: redemption arc and to stand up against the institutions that
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: she is embroiled in in a way that could have
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: been so powerful, and we just Jordan and Sanderson just
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: didn't have the courage to tackle that storyline. Yeah, he's
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: willing to call out Sean Chan's America with his freaking
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: bald eagle, but he's not willing to go through the
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: emancipation of the slaves.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, very performative American. We passed a law, so
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: now we're going to post racial society kind of approach
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, it's disappointing. It's it's on brand for
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: tall ye men who were making it in American capitalism
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: and Christianity. But you wish you could see something else.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: It's too bad. No one other than until white Christian
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: men have ever written books.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Nope. I can't think of any other white Christian men
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: who were white fantasy or sci fi.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: I just can't think of any other authors. It's like
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: I would read something else if something else existed, but
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing else to read. Sorry, guys, the
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: cynicism spiral might have caught me a little hard.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: I think you're joking.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: I am joking, but I'm also really depressed about the
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: fact that we're a month into a war with Iran.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: So sorry, anyway, speaking of war, what else is happening
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: in Seawan Chan?
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: They're realizing the explosion that they've been scared of this
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: whole time. The secret weapon that Alane created was just
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: like a freak accident.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that is like they are so far behind
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: the times, But it's kind of cute, like, oh, you
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: finally figured that out. Huh you finally figured that out. Okay, okay,
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I mean it's true, but it's funny, like that's so old,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: like that is they just chased it down at Chekhov's
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: gun so hard, like they just spent so much energy
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: on a complete wild goose chase.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: And I love that for them, But it was also
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: one of the reasons that they kind of stopped advancing.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: It was sort of this idea that like, oh my god,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: they're afraid of this weapon and they therefore are going
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: to secure themselves and not worry about advancing any further.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: It was holding them at bay a little bit.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's a good mistake. It's why I
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: love that for them, Like the wild Goose Chase helped
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: our main cast not have to deal with as much
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: sawn champullshit. And then yeah, Besselin points out the traveling
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: is really really powerful, and Tuon says, we will use
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: that to annihilate the White Tower, and then we never
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: hear about that plan ever again, which seems like a
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: very weird loose thread to leave hanging.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Yep. Yes, I don't know what to say other than yes,
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: that seems very weird.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Like we talked about that before on recording, right, we
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: did actually record that whole discussion.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, I believe.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: So it's very weird. It's given so much don Daun
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Dawn kind of energy, and then it just there's nothing.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: And then I feel like they go sign the Dragon's Piece, right,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: and I feel like that's at that point that she
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: can't anymore and honor her word best I got, but
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: she could break it. She talks about breaking the Dragon's Piece,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: and then Matt comes along as like, but come on,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: you gotta and she's like okay and goes and rescues
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: the White Tower.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like deciding to give up on taking
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: down the White Tower should have merited at least to
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: half a thought.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Right, right, so if we missed it, like we'll come
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: across it and we'll have to Mia koopa, yeah eat
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: crow and be like, oh, we just didn't read carefully,
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: but like, I feel like it's not in there.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Well, but as we've established, I have no reading comprehension.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: So somehow your reading comprehension is great on the first
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: eleven books, and then these last three books you're just like,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I kind of skimmed them once.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I guess it's embarrassing. But I don't know how I'm
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: supposed to study for the last book.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: It's hard. I'm definitely gonna have to read it a
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: couple of times. I think that's I've been pushing to
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: take a little bit of a longer break before the
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: last book, including maybe slipping new Spring in there, and
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: that'll give us a chance to sort of review and
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: maybe read that last book a couple of times.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: I swear, we love these books.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: We do, we do, we do, we do. It's just
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: it's so funny that these were the conclusions. And it's
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: like you ever get that point where, like you have
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: a TV show you love, you watch it one hundred times,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: and then the ending comes out. You watch it and
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, that was amazing. But you're like,
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: I know this show so well, but I only watched
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: the ending once or twice, and I can never remember
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: what happens to all the characters at the end. Yeah, yeah,
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that's that's what's happening here, where
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I guess once you know what happens to
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: the characters, there's a certain finality and there's a certain
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: amount of like I don't need to go back and
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: rehash the deaths over and over and over again.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, there's a certain amount of often
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: to the sunset. My fanfic can just fuzz out that
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: that end now, then it doesn't end. It doesn't end.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: There's just more content I haven't gotten to yet. I'll
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: get to it eventually. You can kind of just trick
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: yourself into that. Yeah, for sure. It's another reason to
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: start another campaign at Balder's Gate instead of actually completing
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: X three.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, it's all about the journey, not the destination.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: So if we never get there.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Though, I will say I have actually finished
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: that game once and the emotional resonance was worth it.
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: It's it was hard. It was really hard, but uh,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: it was well written. I will give them that. It
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: was a very well written ending, at least the one
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: ending I got. I guess there's like over a thousand
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: depending on how all the different characters go. But anyway, I.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Still need to get a computer powerful enough to run that.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah you should. It's and if you don't want
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: to ever have any free time or brain space ever again,
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, Samanas I said that for all Mankind
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Season five premiered on Thursday. I did not know that
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: because Apple TV doesn't want people to watch their content.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: But that's very exciting soap opera in space. Love it.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know that One.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: For All Mankind is a fun It's very soapier than
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: I could wish, but it's a fun alternate American history
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: where the Russians beat us to the moon and so
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: our space program never got shut down. Yeah, I've told you,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: it's really really fun. There's just some really weird soap
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: opera level plots in it. But I'm very jazzed that
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: season five is premiering. And I'm being told by a
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: friend because yeah, Apple does not want you to watch
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: their content. The concept of promoting their content like gives
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: them an allergic reaction. They just don't want you to
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: know that they're making intro TV at all. All Right,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: So final POV of the chapter is some of the
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: reunion energy that we wanted done, almost good enough to
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: not make me want to throw the book.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: It's certainly better than the easing the badger scene that
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: I thought was eye rollingly bad. You know this, this
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't call this good, but this is like.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: I think having Tom here helps.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is acceptable reunion level banter, even if
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: some of the banter is corny and clearly written by,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: you know, a very tired Sanderson. Yeah yeah, it's just
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: not it's it's really it's Sanderson level humor, which I
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: just I he's just not very I wouldn't even say
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: it's not the so much. So it's clever. It's again
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: that he's written so much that I've seen his humor
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: over and over and over again, and it's not that
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: unique anymore.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: But I really like Tom's participation in this. When you know,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: parents say, wow, Matt's married, Mats said you didn't have
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: to tell him that part. Tom says, oh, I assure
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: you I did.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: That was good. That was good.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: That was the character. I could hear the intonation, the
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: basiness of his voice like that that moment. Really like,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I think Tom really helps here. I think that Sanderson
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: has an easier time writing Tom than the boys because
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Tom is a farther back character. He's more of an archetype.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: He's an older character, whereas Parent and Matt, it's the boys.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: I gotta do all this stuff, you know.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: It's like I have to have every trope in one scene,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: all at the same time, and they just don't get
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: up to relax, and Matt feels like an ADHD version
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: of himself where it's just like bouncing all over the
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: place instead of the Mat that has come to chill
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: out quite a bit and relax quite a bit and
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: is much more stoic than the Mat in the begin.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I feel like Parent shows some growth here though, paren
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: is I mean because at this point Sanderson is much
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: more comfortable with writing paren I think because he's written
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: so much of Parent's growth under his own pen. So yeah,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: this scene is closer to the reunion energy that we
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: were looking for, I think. And we have another very
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: famous name drop in this little section here.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, at the Happy Throng we have Denzel, which
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: you know is one hundred percent based on Jason Denzel,
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: a fan of the Wheel of Time, you know, but
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: a very special fan of the Wheel of Time, both
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: because he runs dragon Mount, which was you know, back
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: then Dragonmount was Jason Denzel, and I believe Theory Land
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: was Matt Hatch. So these are the two Towers of Midnight,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: of the fandom Towers. They're both very tall men men.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: They were doing the fandom on the online fandom work
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: before the books were done, right, most of the fandom
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: comes into existence after the books are completed. These guys
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: were there first.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, these are the old school this is and these
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: are the people who kind of started Jordan Kahn and
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: the sort of the original con scene. Now. I mean
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: there are other people involved who were part of the fandoms,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: who did a lot of the work. I don't want to,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: you know, say it was just these two men who
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: did all the work. And the other reason why, you know,
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Jason Denzel, I hold him dear to our heart because
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: he basically posted the first When I put up the
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: first episode on Reddit, he saw that and sent out
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: a tweet to basically everyone who was part of dragonim
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: out saying, hey, here's a Wheel of Time podcast. You
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: guys should check it out. And that was probably by
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: far our first big bump and the first time I
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: realized there was going to be more than a passing
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: interest in this content. And you know, between that and
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: following people on Instagram is I think how we got
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: our initial following, and you know, we definitely have grown
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: and shrunk with people since then. That was sort of
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: the core group that existed in the beginning, who created
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: the initial life following, who created the initial downloads, and
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: who got us, you know, going, And we're the beta
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: testers for everything that we had to figure out in
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: the beginning with the communication and the microphones and all
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. So, you know, huge shout out
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: to Jason because you know, I think he could be
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: considered the grandfather of this podcast, right because he sort
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: of was provided a little bit of the initial seed
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: that got us going into the fandom.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: Like initial springboard into finding people.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the springboard that got us going for sure, And
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: That's part of why, you know, I've always wanted to
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: make sure that we do as much cross pollination and
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: uplift of our fellow people and the fandom as possible,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: because that's the reason that this podcast got where it
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: did was because of a fellow person in the fandom
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: being like, hey, you're making content. I want to uplift
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: that and make it go places. Yeah. I think that's
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: a really important part of what makes this fandom awesome
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: socially and creatively. And it's yeah, it's nice to see
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: that Denizel here is not just some random character that
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: gets thrown away. He is much like innkeeper Hatch, the
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: owner of an inn that has a lot of like
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: other little bits of hat tips and structure to it
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: that says that, like, this is more than just a
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: red shirt, right, This is a really important person in
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: the fandom. This is not just someone who donated. This
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: is someone who like made the fandom and thus the
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: experience of finishing these books what it is.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: And it's like the carved wooden sign hung outside the window,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: dripping with rainwater. It depicted faces wearing strange hats and
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: exaggerated smiles. The happy Throng. There was probably a story
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: behind the name. That's the fandom. That's the fandom of
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Drag Him Out has been described as the happy Throng.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: I just I think it's so neat the way that
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: was incorporated. I think that was that was well done,
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: and just the way we have the connection, you know,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: well not that you know. It's just I love the fantom.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I love the phantom. I think it's great. I think
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: it's great that he included some of it. Some of
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: it's a little ham fisted, but I mean.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Strikey talks about him being all but dragon sworn, having
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: a portrait of Rand commissioned, and it's like, these are
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: rabbit fans. Rab Bid. You come to this man's house,
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: you are aware of his love of the wheel of time.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: You come to this man's bar, you're aware of his
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: love of the dragon ray Born either way.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: And what's funny is that that initial fandom was ended
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: up just being a small percentage.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: And even the physical description is of him a lean
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: man with his head kept shaved, like, oh, yeah, used,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: the name is enough, but yeah again, much like it's
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: not like there's zero percent chance of this being anyone else.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: They talk about Varren a little bit. They haven't seen
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: her in over two weeks now because she's dead.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: So dead dead, dead, buried or whatever it is that
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: got done with her body. We literally don't know.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe she's alive and talking to Avienda in her dream. No,
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: she did, she did. And you know, Matt's like, she's
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: worried something might happen to her. Yeah, something happened to her.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: He was correct that she was worried something would happen
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: to her. She was very much giving those letters out
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: as a tingency in case she couldn't get back in
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: a few hours a few hours that was what she
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: was hoping for. It's been weeks now.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: So they're basically hanging around until you know, Grady walks
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: in and goes, yo, it's midnight that your wife wanted
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: me to tell you, which, again I don't really like
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: the wife bad humor here.
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: Did not enjoy that. Well you your wife asked me
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: to remind you, So you have a whole ass human
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: being operating as an alarm clock nag for the wife
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: because wives be like that, am I right? Yeah? Super annoying.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was not my favorite humor right there. I
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: was just like, come on.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, parent can't be trusted to come home on his
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: own because boys, am I right?
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: And he's hanging out with Matt, and Matt's so irresponsible
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: and he's the known you're responsible, and who's going to
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: keep him up late and out late and he needs
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: his sleep and.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: You're up drinking because they just don't know what's good
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: for them, but women know what's good for them. Women
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: have discipline.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I got the same feeling. I was just like, okay, anyway,
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: move on.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: And then we get this whole analogy story about a
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: quote unquote group of savages, which not a fan of
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: that term. But it's this whole weird little analogy story
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: that Tom gets to tell that Matt gets to corroborate
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: with war memories about how sometimes being a leader who's
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: really obvious about being a leader is dangerous because you
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: have a target painted on your back, and we needed
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: a page and a half to say.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: That to Yeah, it's sort of I'm half convinced the
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: only reason you survived this long is because the Forsacan
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: don't know where to find you, which is kind of half.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: True, like a quarter true.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Mostly they just didn't know they were targets, right, like, yeah, really,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: only I think land Fear and is Shaemael knew what
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: they looked like or who they were, or they because
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: they were the ones who would track the Taveran. They
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: were tracking Rand by being Taverance, of course they'd be
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: able to find other Taveran as well and know they
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: were important. But I don't think any of the Forsaken knew,
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: which is funny because a bunch of the Dark Friends
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: knew because Shamael told them, but then that didn't go
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: back up, which just you know, that's how much the
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Dark Friend organization was under Ashamael only and not the Forsaken,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: it really was. That's why, like Lanfear always called them
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: fools because they worshiped Shamael, not the Dark One. I
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: feel like that got changed a little bit after book
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: three or book four, where like then now the Dark
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: Ones are just all or just they. Shamael was able
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: to transfer that warship up to the Dark One very easily.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of weird holes
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: and retcons and how information traveled behind the scenes amongst
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: all the bad guys. Sure, and yeah, and there's so
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: many times when Forsaken know where they are, right, Like
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Mugeddion knew where a lot of these guys were for
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: a while, as Modien was there in the camp with
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: them for a long time. But again Tom doesn't know
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: all of it. You know, his supposition is not incorrect
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: given the information he has.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: I think at various points in time these boys have
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: been wanted to be killed, and I think, but not
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: all the time, and not by all the Forsaken.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's the Forsaken are not a monolith, which
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: is again something that someone like Tom is not privy
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: to all the information necessary to have that nuance.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: So then I think I have Matt asking for a gateway,
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: which gets Tom all excited because of course he wants
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: to rescue Moraine. Because he's all very excited to rescue Moraine.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Can't imagine why.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Fine looking woman, fine looking woman.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, there's yeah, this other ham fisted
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: part where parents like, I'm slightly smart and Matt says,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: you're so devious now you've changed, and parents like, I'll
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: try to take that as a compliment. And that's that's
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: the banter that feels weird, like I know what it
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: was trying to do, and it's so yeah, let's get
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: ahead to being excited about Morin.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: It's like the ribbing your friends give you. But that
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: was never really their relationship.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Certainly not on the page. We needed to see it
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: on a page in order for it to feel like
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: a callback.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Like there's maybe a little bit in the beginning where
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: like I think Matt said something and parent like blushed.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: In the early books, yeah, in like the first quarter
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: of the first book, like it's not it's not a
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: meaningful callback. Easing the Badger was a callback that was
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: done so badly. It also doesn't work, but like it's
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: just whatever, So yeah, Matt does this very weird ADHD
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Matt thing of saying, yeah, we need a gateway for
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: important stuff. Oh, I guess I should explain like he
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: was just gonna like ask for it and move on.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: And then Paren asks one follow up question. I was like, okay, well,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: let me give you the whole story, and I'm just like,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Did I feel like you should have
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: led with that for the evening catchup? You know, de
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: is like a weird thing to do as you're collecting
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: your coats is to mention that Moraine's alive.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: I was the thing. It's funny that, like they spent
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: so long trying to figure out where the Tower of
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: Genjai is and and there's like this whole prophecy about
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: it that they had to use to figure out who
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: to ask, and like it's parents, Like, oh, yeah, I
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: remember that it's over there.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: I know, right.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Why did you ask? Uh? Okay? Paren? Wait? No wait
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: no parent? Paren wasn't on the boat. Why is parent?
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Parents saw it? Because he woke up in til I
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: run Riodd leaning against it one time?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Uh didn't didn't he follow Slayer to it as well?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: And Slayer tried to trap him with it. Yeah, that's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: what it was.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: He interacted with the intelliod and he got a lot
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: of the information from Burgida, who is also the same
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: source of information that Matt has. Right, they're both getting
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: information from Burgita, just at different points in the timeline,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: got it, that's right. Yeah. It is really funny how
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: it's like every time that Matt tells anyone from his
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: life about it, they're like, oh, yeah, I know about that.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, but he's running around going to like soothsayers
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: and strangers and random old books trying to figure it out.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: And it's like literally everyone you've ever met in your
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: life has some actual lived connection to it.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: The pattern being like, it's over there. You just ask
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: your friend, No, don't ask the will see there. Let's
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: ask ask the boat driver. No, don't ask the fuck Okay,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: ask the little kid you've been raising. At least he
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: might be able to point you in the right fucking direction.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna have him play the game in front
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: of you over and over and over and over again,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: and maybe maybe, Matt, you might get the hint.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so then yeah, with that, they decide that actually,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: wives can just go suck a fuck, and they're going
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: to sit down and drink more wine and talk sorry.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't matter that the nagging wife is going
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: to be upset because you can tell the alarm clock
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: to tell the wife to go shove it and it'll
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: be fine. That's the chapter. I don't know if you
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: want to actually do a read out there cool, So yeah,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: there you go. That was a long and meaty chapter
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: that did not merit getting a reading or a readout
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: because we're snobs at what spoilers.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: You know, if it's set the scene, Like I like
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: the readings that set the scene or did introduce you
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: to character. But a lot of these are just like
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: boring descriptions of things that I don't even know. I
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: don't know, man, I couldn't tell you what the beginnings
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: of these are even.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: And I think it might just be a writing style
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: thing that Jordan liked to open and close his chapters
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: with a little more a plum than Sanderson does, which
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: might just be a stylistic thing, but for our purposes
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: we do a lot less readings and redouns now that
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: we're in the Sanderson books.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: I think there's a difference in prose quality. I really do.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to get real anxiety about what happens in
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: a year when these books are over. I'm trying to
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: get real anxious.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: About it and why just in terms of, like this
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: is something that you don't.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Gonna do with my Yes, exactly what am I going
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: to do with my time and my energy? And like
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: who am I going to yell about with books with
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: on a regular basis.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's why we're doing Crawler, Carl.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: It is, it is. But this has been here for
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: so long. This has been here since before I changed majors. Right,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: I've been doing this since before I changed majors. Like,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: this is a really big part of my life, and
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: it's given me anxiety to get near the end of
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: the second to last book that last book is going
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: to be a problem.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: No, I'm there with you. I'm also I'm feeling it right,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Like I'm feeling that like weirdness and that like uncertainty,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: and like that's why I want to take a big break.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: That's why I want to do New Spring, right, Yeah,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: And our current plan is to because the New Spring
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: chapters are pretty short, We're going to try and do
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: I think that the five at a time, five per
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: episode and just do like big long episodes until we
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: do five and get it done in like I think
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: five weeks.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to take a Jordan retrospective bounce back
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: between books. Yeah, do it in four or five episodes,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: and that will be dur five or six. That's going
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: to be our side quest before we actually do Memory of.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: Light right right, and then I will probably also push
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: to take I think else is planning on like a
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: month off of just no recording, just to like, yeah.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got right, we got some other life stuff
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: to do and breathers between the books. It's yeah, the
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: summer is going to be a little bit different for
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: release stuff, but we still have the rest of spring
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: to get through that we literally just started. Welcome to Spring, everyone.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed whatever your cultural and regional holiday
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: for the seasonal transition was. I hope that you enjoyed
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the snacks and the family gatherings and to and happy
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: fall to everyone you know down below in the fake Continent.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: The upside down, the down under. M hm.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I'm ready to close this recording out,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: take a little break, and then go do the new podcast.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: That I'm not anxious about ending because it's only just beginning.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we'll get started on that. But yeah, again,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: I guess this is a good time to shout out, like, hey,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: you know, if you like what we're doing here at
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: Wheel of Time Spoilers, and you've been listening to us
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: for five hundred plus episodes at this point, please come
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: enjoy what we're doing with Dungeon Crawler Carl. We're just
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: having a lot of fun with it. They're really easy
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: to consume episodes, we're keeping them under an hour. Yeah.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: I think that's the way I think you can ease
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: a radius anxiety about the Wheel of Time Spoilers ending.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Come support us in Dungeon Crawler Carl. If you feel
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: bad for a radia, which.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: You should, I'm not even going to fight it.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Come listen to our other podcast. That's my plug.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do it? Do it for my mental health.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's for Aradia's mental.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Health, which means if you don't do it, I'm going
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: to assume that you hate me and want my mental
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: health to go in the toilet. So congratulations, don't.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Make a cry. Support our Dungeon Crawling Carl podcast podcast
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: at donut by here from Fox and Raven Media. Bye.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watts
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: at Foxendravenmedia dot com.