Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #188 Cyberbullying Question

Transcript

#188 Cyberbullying Question · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. Now.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Teenage girls don't necessarily have the maturity to manage their
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: relationships online, especially in a big group, especially when the
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: conversation has been going for hours, and especially when it's
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: late at night.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and Dad.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Hello, this is doc Justin Colson, the author of six
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: books about raising Happy Families. I'm here with my wife
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: and co hosts A Mom to our six kids, missus
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Happy Families, Kylie. Tonight, it's a big night for the
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: beginning of twenty twenty one. It's our first Q and
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: A for all of our premium members in a Happy
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Families membership. If you're a Happy Family's member, jump on
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: board tonight we're going to be So it's eight pm
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: New South Wales and Victoria at ACT and seven pm Queensland.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Answering your questions about how to make your family happier
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and Honeybun you want to talk about. One that came
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: through from a premium member who's having a bit of
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: a time is a bit of a taster for what
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: we're going to be doing tonight.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: She said, my daughter is in an escalating situation. She's
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: was a member of a snapchat group of about nine girls. Unfortunately,
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: she got into a situation of being ganged up on
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: by the group over a period of several hours into
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: the night. This culminated in her being pushed to her
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: limit and she said something she deeply regrets. She apologized,
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: tried to make amends, but the next day members of
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: the group demanded repeatedly again over a number of hours,
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: that she leads the group. She eventually did, But we're
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: going to fast forward two weeks now and the girls
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: are now messaging her anonymously through a shared account, telling
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: her that she won't have any friends when she goes
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: back to school and no one.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Will ever love her. Ouch. That's awful, And as.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: A mum, my emotions are starting to rise. I'm feeling
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: like the fourteen year old girl right now.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: So it's almost like you're seeing this happen to your daughter,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: and you're remembering what it was like when you were
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: a fourteen year old and worried about rejection and ostracism,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: not fitting in.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: My emotions are so caught up in my own experience
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: is that right now, I'm not in a space where
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I can actually be of use to my daughter.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And you didn't send this email, did you? I did it.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: My heart is racing, my head is thumping, and I
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: am I'm feeling really, really emotionally flooded right now.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Well, if you're going to help your daughter, you foughteen
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: year old daughter or son or whoever it is, that's
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: being cyberbull. The first thing you've got to do is
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: actually be able to look after yourself, right So what
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: do I do? Tell me?
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: What do I do right now so that I can
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: actually help my daughter? Because my heart is bursting to
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: be helpful to my daughter, but I am so emotionally
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: invested in my own stuff right now.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Well, you've heard me say this a number of times.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: When your emotions are high, your intelligence is low. Right now.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: It's not that your intelligence isn't there, it's just that
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: your brain doesn't access the thinking stuff because there's so
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: much emotion happening. There's a lot of neuroscience. I'm not
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: going to go into that. I don't have time with
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: so much to talk about with this painful email that's
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: come through from this mum. But it's really important that
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: we get ourselves under control so that we can help others.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: We cannot, We just cannot step into this situation because
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're catching her emotion anyway, right. Emotions are contagious.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: But if you step into the situation with fear and
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: anxiety and worry and stress and anger, your daughter will
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: catch that as well. And so, so what do I do?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Tell me so that you can stay calm? What do
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I do? A couple of months ago, we had a
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: conversation with Ethan Cross from the University of Michigan. I
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: remember he talked about this thing called psychological or self distancing,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: and this is I think one of the most powerful
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: strategies that we can rely on to keep ourselves calm
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: and in check so that we can be better parents,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: so that we can be better people. There's a whole
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: lot of different things that we could talk about. I'm
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: going to pick on just three of them really quickly,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: and in the interest of time. I'm going to do
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: them briefly because I really want to solve this mum's
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: problem as much as we can. Okay, So, the first
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: thing that you can do with self distancing or psychological
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: distancing is try to I mean, what you're really trying
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: to do is step out of the situation. You try
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: to put some distance between you and what's going on.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, whether I'm the daughter or I'm the mum,
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: and I am completely in golfed with.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Emotion, which you would be. I mean, you think about
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: what's going on both in the moment and even two
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: weeks down the track as it's escalated and gotten so
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: much worse.
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: How do I, without someone else's help, how do I,
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: as an individual step outside of that? Because I am
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: just emotionally flooded.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Here's the first thing that I would say, think of
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: somebody that you know who deals with stress really really
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: well and deals with these interpersonal dilemmas really well. So
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: if you can think of anybody who's just a great
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: example of staying cool and calm and composed and level
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: and balanced when everything's going crazy around them.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Is there such a person?
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Try and be that person. So for me, you've heard
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: me talk about I mean, you know my friend and
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: mental Wally Goddard very very well, and he's been a
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: mentor to me for the last two decades, and he's
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: always so calm. He is maybe I need to channel him.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Maybe you do, but I channel my inner Wally.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I've heard you say that so many times over the
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: years and it's never really resonated with me. But as
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: as we're chatting about it right now, I can really
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: see how that would be of benefit.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And you've seen the emails. People email me regularly and
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: say I just channel my inner doctor Justin Coulson and
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I'm a better parent. Then they're not actually becoming me
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: and I'm not becoming Wally. But when we try to act,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is what actors do on stage. When
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: you step into a different persona, you behave differently. So
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: think about somebody who keeps their cool step into that
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: persona and you will automatically become more relaxed.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: Can you tell me three?
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that's the first one. The second one, imagine
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: that you've got an audience, you know, like when you're
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: at the shops and the kids are having an absolute
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: lose the plot moment. You treat them differently in the
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: shops than the way you treat them in the living room.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Because there's an audience, people are judging you. You're aware
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: of it, and that creates a sense of psychological distance.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: It helps you to be on your best behavior. If
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: you're in your living room and your daughter is sobbing
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: because her friends are saying these horrible things, imagine that
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: there's an audience. Imagine that somebody's watching you, and you're
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: going to respond differently. So that creates psychological distance as well.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: My favorite one mental time travel.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: It's just because you want to be a superhero.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: We call it. We call it temporal distancing. And basically
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: what you do is you imagine ten years from now,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: looking back, as you're talking about that incident with your
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: son or daughter, what will their memories of this moment be.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: How will they remember you having handled it.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: It's back to the future, that's why.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's it. But you think about it.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: If you can imagine that, then you know that you
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: want them to say, oh, you were so thoughtful, and
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: you were so generous, and you were so charitable, and
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: you were so compassionate. All of these things come to
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: mind straight away, and you become a better parent. As
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: you mentally time travel, you know what you want to
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: be remembered for, and so you can actually be that. Now.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: Okay, so my heart rates lowered, hopefully my palms aren't
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: as sweet as they were. I've wiped them and I'm
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: feeling a little bit more grounded. So maybe after the
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: break we can talk about how we now best help
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: our daughter.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Let's do that.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Famili's podcast.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: For a happier family.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Try a Happy Families membership, because a happy family doesn't
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: just happen.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Details at happy families dot com dot au.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now, and we have
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: been talking about cyber bullying. We've got our own emotions
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: in check now and we really want to be able
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: to help our children. What is the best advice that
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: you can give parents who are dealing with these really
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: really challenging situations with their kids.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: There's a handful of things that we need to talk
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: about from this email that came through. The first is
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: that we're talking about kids, nine kids in a snapchat
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: group well into the night, several hours into the So chances.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Are if these these nine girls were actually face to face,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: this would be a very different.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: It would have to be situated almost certainly. Yep. So
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: you know, social media has some pluses and it has
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: some negatives. But when it comes to teenage girls and
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: social media, there are a lot of negatives. We know
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: from research the girls much more relational, they're more relationally aggressive,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: they're more likely to ruminate. This all sounds so stereotypical,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: and yet the research bears it out. Teenage girls don't
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: necessarily have the maturity to manage their relationships online, especially
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: in a big group, especially when the conversation has been
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: going for hours, and especially when it's late at night,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: when there willpower is lower, and they're just not dealing
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: with things quite so well. And so, as you said
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: in the email, this fourteen year old girl's been pushed
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: to her limit. She said something she regrets, she's tried
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: to make up for it, and now it's all gone
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: wrong because not only has she left the group, but
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: the girls that can smell the blood in the water.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: And not all girls are like this, And I'm sure
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: that there's a bunch of those nine girls who feel
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: really awful about what's going on, but enough of them
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: are pushing this forward that the other girls know if
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: they now step in and try to stand up for
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: their friend, they're going to be on the outer as well,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: and they know that that's poison. That's terrible. Now this
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: has all happened over the summer break, school's about to
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: go back. There's all sorts of concerns around this, and
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: so I think that there's a few things that we
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: need to consider. The first thing that I would say
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: is that if there's anything particularly destructive, toxic, or inappropriate,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: you want to get some evidence of it, so take
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: some screenshots. Next thing I would do is I'd just
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: block the account that the messages are coming from, and
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: if they keep on coming from other accounts, just keep
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: blocking the accounts. If it keeps happening, contact the E
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Safety Commissioner that website from. The E Safety Commissioner is
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: actually there to prevent this kind of thing happening. It's illegal,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: it's not allowed to happen, and at worst, the police
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: can actually get involved. Obviously we hope it won't get
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: to that. But if you've got a child who's genuinely
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: being victimized and attacked and bullied like this online, they
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: need someone to advocate for them and protect them. Now
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: that's going a long way, very very fast, but sometimes
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: that's the only thing that will work.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: So do I get the school involved, do I get
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: other parents involved?
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Are those steps going to be helpful in this situation?
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: The answers to those two questions are it depends. Let's
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: start with the school and then we'll go to the
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: other parents. When you get the school involved. I've seen
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: it go both ways, and I know that what I'm
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: going to say is really provocative and it's going to
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: upset some people, and I'm really hesitant to say it.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: But getting the school involved, more often than not, actually
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: doesn't work well unless the school has exceptional counselors and
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: a pastoral program that is just outstanding. Too many schools
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: will use this as an approach to do restorative circles
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: or you know, do some sort of punitive we've got
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: to stop this bullying and we're going to stamp it
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: out in zero tolerance, And all it does is pushes
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: the unwanted behavior underground. The fourteen year old girl in
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: this situation looks like she's a snitch and everybody hates
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: her and talks about her. It's just that they do
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: it in more sneaky ways. It doesn't usually end up
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: going very well. It can work out okay, but it
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: takes a really really skillful counselor or head of year
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: or head of house or whatever it is, to walk
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: through that and find conciliation, find a way forward in
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: terms of talking to other parents. Again the as it
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: could be yes or no. If the kids have been
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: friends for years, if you know the parents, then maybe
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: it's worth reaching out. If it's a group of people
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: that you don't know and you've got no idea what's
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: going on, probably not going to work. So well. You
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: just never know. I mean, we had an incident many
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: years ago where I reached out to a parent a
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: boy had sent explicit content or made explicit requests. Sorry,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I off one of our daughters, who fortunately just came
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: straight to us and said, this is what's happened. And
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: so I contacted the parents and I said, I'm not
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: sure of all of the background, but we've known each
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: other for years. I just thought I should let you
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: know we're really concerned because here's what's happened. And then
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: the requests from me was how can I help you
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: or what can we do to help the kids. It
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: should never be you need to fix up your child
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: and stop them doing this. It should always be I
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: really want to support our kids, They've always had such
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: a great relationship. How can we help here? And that
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: needs to be the approach.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: What happens Like in a perfect world, this is all
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: going to sort itself out. The girls are going to
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: go back to school and they're going to realize that
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: they've just been you know, absolutely nasty, and everyone's going
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: to be hunky dory again. The reality is probably not.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: That not going to happen.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Probably not going to happen like that, And there is
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: a chance that it will actually get worse once they're
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: in each other's spaces, because she's going to feel isolated, ostracized,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: left out and alone. So if things don't get better,
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: or if they escalate, what is the best thing I
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: can do?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Then?
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: As a parent, I.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Think that the number one thing that we want to
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: do is actually leave it up to our daughter and
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: empower her. The answers are inside her. She might need
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: some guidance, she might need some gentle support. I mean,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: if you say, what do you think you should do?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: And she says, I think that we should. You know,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: we've got those leftover fireworks in the garage from twenty
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: years ago or thirty years ago, before they were outlawed.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Actually it was longer than that, so they probably you know,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: and she says, let's go and blow up the letter
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: box so we know where they live. Then we're going
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: to direct her away from that. But usually our kids
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: there either say I'm really stuck, or they might say
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I need to find some new friends, or maybe I
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: can try to rescue two of those relationships. Because I
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: know that not all of them are saying this. I
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: know that a couple of them have sent me messages
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: of support. Even though they're not doing it publicly, they're
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: doing it privately, And so your children have got answers
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: inside themselves. What we need to do is, with lots
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: and lots of empathies, say something along the lines of
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: this is really hard, and you know and I know
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: that approaching this in a confrontational manner is not going
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: to make things any better, But what do you think
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: you could do? And how can I support you? And
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: bringing that approach to it and then gently guiding them
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: as they come up with answers. They respond so much
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: better when we give them that autonomy, when they have
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: that opportunity to make a decision for themselves about who
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: they're going to invite into their lives. Who they're going
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to sit by, what friends they'll reach out to, whether
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: they need to start a new school. I mean, there
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: are so many options if we let them just come
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: up with ideas and let them sit and work through
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: it with our gentle support.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Well, I hope this has been really helpful for this mum.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: It's a conversation that I think needs to be had
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: and I've learnt some stuff today in how to manage
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: my own emotion so that my intelligence doesn't leave the
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: room and I can be more supportive of my children.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: So I'm really grateful for that.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Q and A is tonight for Premium members. You can
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: check out the zoom link and please join us as
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: we answer a whole lot more of the challenging questions
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: that you're facing to make your family happier. And we
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: really hope you enjoyed the podcast. If you did enjoy
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: the podcast, please visit Apple Podcasts, leave a rating and
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: review so that the algorithms can push our podcast up
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the ratings and other people can find it so that
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: they can make their families happier as well. The Happy
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Families podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from Bridge Media
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: and our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If you'd like
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: more information about making your family flourish, you can get
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: all the information about our membership and monthly support from
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot au