Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Dr. Tonya Matthews Talks IAAM Homecoming '26, Teachings & Controversies Surrounding African American History + More

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INTERVIEW: Dr. Tonya Matthews Talks IAAM Homecoming '26, Teachings & Controversies Surrounding African American History + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hold up.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Every day I wake up.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Wake your ass up.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Y'all finished or y'all done?
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Just Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: We are The Breakfast Club. Laura Rose is here as well.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: We got a special guest in the building.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Dr. Tonya M. Matthews. Welcome.
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: Hello.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: How are you feeling?
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: I am well today.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I am well. You have your homecoming this weekend?
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: I have homecoming this weekend.
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  Speaker 1: And introduce her right.
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  Speaker 5: She's the president and CEO of the International African American
• 0:30
  Speaker 5: Museum in Charleston.
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  Speaker 2: South Carolina.
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  Speaker 3: I was talking about her homecoming this weekend.
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to go, but this is my homecoming weekend.
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: Listen, I understand. It's the season. It is homecoming season.
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  Speaker 2: So tell us what you do for the museum.
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  Speaker 4: I am the president and CEO of the museum. I
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  Speaker 4: have the humbling privilege of leading an amazing team. So,
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  Speaker 4: of course, you know, we steward the stories, all of
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: the stories, the real stories, the truth, the authentic stories.
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  Speaker 4: You know, those stories they keep talking about. We shouldn't
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: be telling to the children. Yeah, those are stories we got.
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  Speaker 4: So so we talk about that at the museum. We
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: are located right at the site of the nation's largest
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: transatlantic slave trading port. But I want to know for
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: folks who are coming, thinking it's going to be all
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  Speaker 4: sad and heavy. We do this amazing thing, which is
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  Speaker 4: we tell our stories, but we never forget the joy.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: We never forget the triumph. We never forget the victory.
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  Speaker 4: We don't forget the struggle. There's no victory without struggle.
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  Speaker 4: So it's all in there. But we have all the feels, right?
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: And so that's why it makes sense for us to
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: do our own homecoming.
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  Speaker 2: I was going to ask about attendance, right, with the museum.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: And the reason I ask is.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I have six kids, and I remember when
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I was a kid, we would have to go to
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  Speaker 3: museums a certain amount of times a year, right?
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was a school trip or
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: whatever it was, we had to. But I'm thinking about
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  Speaker 2: it now, and my kids are not forced to go
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: with school trips anymore. Like, my son just went camping
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: and hiking, and I'm like, well, why? He didn't go
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: to a museum. So I was wondering, how is attendance
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: with museums? Are there more and more kids coming, or
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  Speaker 2: is it less?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we are a little bit of an outlier.
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  Speaker 4: I think because we're still a newbie on the block,
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  Speaker 4: we got that new car smell. So we've had more
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  Speaker 4: than half a million visitors come to the museum, so
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  Speaker 4: really excited about that. But your point about school kids
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  Speaker 4: and school groups going to museums is a real thing, right?
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  Speaker 4: Even with, like you were saying, when I was growing up,
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  Speaker 4: it was considered part of education, right? It's part of
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  Speaker 4: the curriculum. You go there, you read it in a book,
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: then you see it in real life. And now it
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: sometimes skews to reward for good behavior. Right. Like we're
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: going to have a fun kind of thing, which is
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  Speaker 4: just as good because we want kids to think of
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  Speaker 4: museums as being fun places. But when you take us
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  Speaker 4: out of that necessity conversation, we need to be part
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  Speaker 4: of the education. So one of the things we have
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: at the museum is there is a portion of our
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  Speaker 4: funding that is dedicated to underwriting the cost of field trips.
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  Speaker 4: So this may also be a reason why we do
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  Speaker 4: have a really strong school group. population that comes in
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  Speaker 4: because we can at least support the cost of admission.
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  Speaker 4: Every once in a while, we got a little bus
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  Speaker 4: money too. So I think knocking down the cost, just
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  Speaker 4: emphasizing we want to be a part of everything you
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  Speaker 4: all are doing. And of course, you know, for teachers,
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  Speaker 4: my mother's an educator. The museum is tagged for the teachers.
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  Speaker 4: So if this is what your kids are studying right now,
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  Speaker 4: this is the section you go to. If this is
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  Speaker 4: what they study in next year, this is the section
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  Speaker 4: you go to. But I think it's important. We need
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  Speaker 4: the kids to go outside. Lord, they need to go
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  Speaker 4: outside in that part, too. But also, you know, museums,
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  Speaker 4: because sometimes not everybody's a classroom kid. I was a
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  Speaker 4: classroom kid, but sometimes you need kids that need to roam, right?
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  Speaker 4: They want to see videos. They want to see pictures.
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  Speaker 4: They want to see people that look like them on
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  Speaker 4: the walls. And so I think that's a space that
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  Speaker 4: museums will always have.
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  Speaker 6: Do you guys have a policy against having phones?
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: You know what? We don't have a policy against having phones.
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  Speaker 4: But I would say that as far as I can tell,
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  Speaker 4: the museum remains undefeated. Because sometimes I go down and
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  Speaker 4: I watch and I see what the kids are doing
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  Speaker 4: and they're not on their phones. Now, I don't know
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  Speaker 4: if the teachers have set up a policy and sort
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  Speaker 4: of those kinds of things. But, you know, we are
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  Speaker 4: still only about three and a half years old. And
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: so we do have a lot of technology built into
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  Speaker 4: the museum, including like touch tables and videos. So that
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  Speaker 4: may also be why. But the other thing is, if
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  Speaker 4: you if you give a child a challenge like, listen,
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  Speaker 4: you need to figure out these five things in the
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  Speaker 4: next 45 minutes. They actually like that. They sort of
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: gamify their own experience a little bit.
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  Speaker 3: So, yeah.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Well, what is homecoming weekend for those who may not know?
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  Speaker 4: What is international African-American weekend homecoming weekend? Yes, yes, yes.
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  Speaker 1: Which is happening this weekend.
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  Speaker 4: Which is happening this weekend. So first, let's back it
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  Speaker 4: on up. We know this is homecoming season, right? Some
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  Speaker 4: of y'all got your plane tickets, your tickets, you're trying
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  Speaker 4: to VVIP the universities you ain't even go to. Okay, right?
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  Speaker 4: But there's something behind that, right? It is cultural and historical, right?
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  Speaker 4: So you got your HBCUs coming up 1830s, right? 1830s.
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  Speaker 4: And we started out imitating. You know, we built the
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: structures we were taught to build. But then you come
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  Speaker 4: into the space where it's the safe space. It is
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  Speaker 4: the place. It's the center of community. The alumni are
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  Speaker 4: coming back.
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  Speaker 2: No, no, no.
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  Speaker 4: The grandbabies are coming back home, right, to show grandma
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  Speaker 4: what they got, what the degrees are going. You're bringing
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: in folks. So it became a real community thing. And
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  Speaker 4: then after that, well, we did what we do. We
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  Speaker 4: got extra, right? We eliminated the military-style precision of our
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  Speaker 4: marching bands and just started cutting up, like, the way
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  Speaker 4: that we do. But all of that is cultural, right?
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  Speaker 4: So there's a reason that, honestly, Mardi Gras, Carnival, and Homecoming,
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  Speaker 4: halftime shows at HBCUs, look a lot alike, right? So
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: that's us. So down in the low country, in South Carolina,
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  Speaker 4: you know, we could play that role. Like, we could
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  Speaker 4: have our own kind of Homecoming show Big shout out
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  Speaker 4: to all of my sister institutions in South Carolina. We
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: did avoid our HBCU homecomings. We do understand. We're joining
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  Speaker 4: in the tradition. So we've got homecoming on the yard
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  Speaker 4: on Saturday. So we don't have a football field, but
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  Speaker 4: we got a yard. We going outside. We got the vendors,
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  Speaker 4: the food trucks, all that set up. Some performers.
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  Speaker 1: And that's free, right?
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  Speaker 4: That's free. That's free. A big shout out to Royal
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  Speaker 4: Missionary Baptist Church, who is helping us have sponsored free admission.
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  Speaker 4: A big shout out to one of our honorary grand marshals,
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  Speaker 4: Brother Charlemagne the God, of course. South Carolina's own. So
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  Speaker 4: we've got that going. But for folks who like really
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  Speaker 4: deep dive in homecoming, you know, it's more than just
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  Speaker 4: the game.
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  Speaker 6: Right.
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  Speaker 4: And more than just the party party part.
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  Speaker 6: I was reading some of the background info on what
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  Speaker 6: you're doing. And I mean, of course, you know, there's
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  Speaker 6: history at HBCUs, but understanding why a museum would take
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  Speaker 6: part made sense when I think about the history.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: So there's there's a lot of history in it. And
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  Speaker 4: it's about remember, there were times and actually it's happening
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  Speaker 4: right now where there are spaces where we don't feel safe. Right.
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  Speaker 4: This is how we take up space.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 4: We create places where we can just be. Some folks
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  Speaker 4: will call it the third space.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 4: Spaces where you can hang out and just be. And
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  Speaker 4: the museum has always been a part of that. But
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  Speaker 4: it was very cool to be able to do it
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  Speaker 4: amped up style, to be able to celebrate it and
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  Speaker 4: welcoming people home. And again, just like we do for
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  Speaker 4: a regular homecoming, you don't have to be from South Carolina.
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  Speaker 4: You don't have to be a member of the museum, though,
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  Speaker 4: if you come on campus and you're not yet a
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  Speaker 4: member of a museum, I'm going to give you a
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  Speaker 4: QR code. It's all good. But all of that. So
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  Speaker 4: we just want to welcome the community, you know, and
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  Speaker 4: those who love us.
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  Speaker 5: But you know, it's funny, they always say if you
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  Speaker 5: shake your family tree, some South Carolina will fall out.
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  Speaker 4: 100%.
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  Speaker 1: And the museum is on Gadsden's Wolf. What's the number?
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  Speaker 1: What's the percentage?
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  Speaker 4: Oh, it's upwards of 40%. So historians estimate upwards of 40%
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  Speaker 4: of all enslaved people would have come through that spot. And,
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: you know, as Charlotte said, so I'm from D.C., I'm
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: from the D.C. area. Exactly. I spent like eight years
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: in Baltimore. I see you. I see you. And so
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: then I get to South Carolina. I'm like, what is this?
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  Speaker 4: My friends, my relatives, everybody popping up. Oh, this part,
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: like this part, King's Tree, Columbia. What is happening? So, yeah,
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: if you shake the tree far enough, somebody going to
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: drop out. Even if your people are also attached to
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: the islands, Envy. They going to be.
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  Speaker 2: Some South Carolina. My mom got family from South Carolina.
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  Speaker 2: My dad got family from Dominica.
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  Speaker 4: That's funny.
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  Speaker 3: Not Dominican Republic, Dominica, which is a Caribbean island.
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  Speaker 4: Exactly. Exactly. Right. So, you know, we are the source.
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  Speaker 4: You got that pilgrimage, that homecoming. But it also reminds
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: us of these are the places that we need to
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  Speaker 4: take care of, regardless of your very, very personal, half
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: personal degrees of separation, personal status. connection to these spaces.
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  Speaker 4: So when they talk about taking us out of the books,
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: moving us out of our homes, out of our neighborhoods,
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  Speaker 4: this is why HBCUs were created so we would have
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  Speaker 4: our own space for education and excellence. This is why
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: Black museums were created. So you need to support all
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: of your cultural institutions That are holding space, including us.
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  Speaker 6: You guys also will be doing a lot around legacy
• 9:12
  Speaker 6: and lineage. You have three families that you're bringing to
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: talk about preserving property. And I mean, you talk about
• 9:18
  Speaker 6: institutions and schools and you're teaching people how to do
• 9:20
  Speaker 6: that through their stories.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. And it's amazing. I know everybody's excited about homecoming
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: on the yard, but I'm really excited about the day
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  Speaker 4: before we're bringing in. Right now, we're just sort of
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: the three descendant families, and I don't want to exclude
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: anybody else out there who is fighting a good fight
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: because they are examples, not exemplars, of the kind of
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: thing that's going on. So we got descendants of, say,
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: the Clotilda, the last slave ship. If you don't know
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: about it, look it up. These folks have known who
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: they were for generations, right? They knew full well that
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: they were on this last illegal slave ship that came
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: up the Mississippi. No one would believe them because the
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: folks knew it was illegal. So when they got them here,
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: they sunk the ship. They sunk. for generations and generations,
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: they just finally found the wreckage in 2019.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: 2019.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: And folks were like, no, y'all lying. Y'all making it up.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: It's a family mythology. Are you kidding me? So they've
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: known for generations. And then you have the folks from
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: Dave the Potter, right? Edgefield, South Carolina. All roads lead.
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  Speaker 4: And he was making these amazing pots while enslaved, had
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: the audacity to write his name on these pots, right?
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: And you think, yeah, that's what artists do. But remember,
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: it was illegal for enslaved people to read and write.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: So the brother was risking getting fingers cut off, hands
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: cut off, whatever the punishment was. So you also got
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: to think about exactly what he was worth to those
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: who were enslaving him if they decided, okay, fine, this
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: is going to slide. So we have them, that family
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: has recently recognized that they are related. And so now
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: they are traveling the country, having conversations with museums, talking about, listen,
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: you know, our great, great, great made that pot. So
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: let's talk about compensation. Let's talk about reparation. Let's talk
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: about family ownership. And that's actually a very complicated and
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: complex question. And last but not least, there is my sister,
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: Tamara Lanier, who battled Harvard University for, for control of
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: images of her ancestors. And she took that conversation to
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: the mat so much that when they finally agreed to
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: relinquish her ancestors that were in this collection, they gave
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: up the entire collection. And she chose the International African-American
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  Speaker 4: Museum as where those images should be held. They are
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: the oldest known surviving images of enslaved people in the U.S.,
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: And that exhibition also opens for homecoming weekend. That's part
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: of coming home. So that's coming home.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm excited.
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: The three families have never met each other. Some do
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: and don't know about each other. So we're going to
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: sit them all on stage. They're going to have a conversation.
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  Speaker 4: That's what I'm excited about. It's going to be amazing.
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: When it comes to a lot of the artifacts that
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: you guys get donated and received, do you still get
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: a lot of artifacts donated to you guys or a
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: lot of that stuff missing, you know, damaged?
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Damaged.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: So we do have folks who are reaching out to
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: us often. So what's interesting about us is right now,
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: as a focus, we want the majority of our collection
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: able to be seen. Like, you know, most museums are
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: the opposite, right? This is not good or bad, but
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: it's just thinking about the stewardship. And so we don't
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: have a lot of storage area. So we collect to display.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: So one of the things we're working on now is
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: maybe we can collect and then make a way for
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: other museums, other black museums that perhaps don't have the
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: collecting infrastructure that we do for them to display. Right.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: It still belongs to us and we'll teach folks how
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: to take care of it and that kind of thing.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: Because a lot of times, you know, it's not just
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: about having stuff. It's actually about knowing how to take
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: care of it, like to host these images, even the
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: reproductions that we got out of Harvard. I had to
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: knock out walls. I had to darken spaces. We got
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: temperature control, all this kind of stuff. You don't usually
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: have that in your grandmother's basement. So if we think
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: about just making sure that this stuff does not deteriorate,
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: doesn't get lost, that's the reason you want things in museums.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: So we're trying to think about the right way to
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: kind of bring those into our collection and make sure
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: that they're not just hidden in a drawer for 100 years.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you because you mentioned something.
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Why do you think teaching the truth about American
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: history has become so controversial?
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: I really wish I could say I don't know. So,
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: you know, I think that there is an effort to
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: control the narrative, right? And then you think about, you know,
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: that saying, you know, to the victor goes the spoils, right?
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: You know, the winner gets to write the story of,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: I think, the war. And so... I think that there
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: is a false notion that understanding the truth and the
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: complexity and, frankly, the trauma of the building of this
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  Speaker 4: country will make us weaker, as opposed to learning those
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: stories has always made you stronger, right? Understanding what you
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: got over and how you got over has always made
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: folks stronger, I think, in that space. And so, you know,
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  Speaker 4: I think it also is a way of... of disempowering folks.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: So you lose confidence. So you think, well, you know,
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: there's no way we can get over this. We can't
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: fight this. We can't beat this. If you read your
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: history books, you'd be like, no, no, not our first rodeo.
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: We do know how to do this. And I do
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: believe that if you don't learn from your mistakes, you
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: will repeat them until you get it right. I think
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: it's cultural. I think it's biblical. I think it's spiritual.
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: I think it's all of the things. And so I
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: think one of the things that I am most anxious
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: about right now is I can see us repeating some things, right? Like,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: didn't we learn this? When folks say things like, I
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: thought we had gotten past that, that's actually what they're saying.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: Didn't we learn that? Didn't we understand that? Can't we
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: recognize that, I think, when that is coming? And so
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: I think as we do indeed move toward a more,
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: I'm going to say the E word, toward a more
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: equitable society, It is a challenge if folks understand their
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: power and what they're able to do, what their ancestors
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: did and sort of that kind of thing. And so
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: there's a reason to hide the story if you don't
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: want folks to understand that the power is within, that
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: the power is community. And like I said, you know,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: we tell the whole story at the museum and folks
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: don't really leave out the museum trying to burn stuff down.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: I love when you always say that. You always say
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: it's not a slave museum. You say this is a survival.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: It is so it is so not. But, you know,
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: that was actually part of the debate in our origins.
• 15:49
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: Some folks are thinking we need to tell this story.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: We need to tell a story of slavery and enslavement.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: Black folks came to the table. They were like, yes, and. Right, right, right, yes, and.
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: So our philosophy around that is that the story of
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: slavery and enslavement is neither the beginning nor the end
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: of the African-American journey. It's in the middle, right? It's
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: in the middle. So you have to understand that part
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: of the story to understand where we are today. But
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: you also have to understand there was a story before
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: that story, like where America is such a young country, right?
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: We are very, very young. One of the youngest civilizations
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: out there. That includes the civilizations, not villages, not tribes,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: the civilizations that were on the continent of Africa, right?
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: That are therefore part of the building of the society.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: And so, you know, we do all the things. You
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: get all the feels. You get all the feels. It's
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: like when your grandmother says, I'm about to tell you
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: a story. you better buckle up and grab a biscuit, okay? Listen,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: you are not leaving until the story is done. But
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: you don't leave feeling sad and depressed. You leave feeling impressed. Wow,
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: remember you went through, you did all that? And that's
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: the sensation that we want people to take away from
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: the museum.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: And they do.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: And I think that's the sensation people would take away
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: from the full story of American history if we were
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: brave enough to tell it.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: How do you decide what you will tell and what
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: you won't tell? And the reason I ask is there's
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: so much black history, so much African-American history. There's so
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: much black history.
• 17:25
  Speaker 6: But there is so much black history.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: There is so much. Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: So what do you.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: Decide what you display and what you don't and how
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: far back you go and when do you stop?
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Because, you know, you can go as far as musicians
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: and musicians in the industry. You can go for, you know, athletes.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: but you can also go through the slavery. So what
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: do you decide that you're going to show and not?
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really good question because, you know, anyone
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: in museum world will tell you we catch smoke on
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: that all the time, right? Because everybody has their favorite story.
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: And if your favorite story doesn't happen to be in
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: a museum, I'm going to hear about it. But what
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: I have learned that that means, though, is that people
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: only give their story to people they think will tell
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: it well. So when I catch smoke about not including
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: a story, I understand that someone is saying, I like
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: what y'all are doing over here. And I think that
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: you should be including my stuff because I can see
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: that and appreciate that. Right. So I've learned to internally
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: at least flip that into a compliment. But part of
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: what we do on this side is we think about
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: are there any stories that are currently not being told? Right.
• 18:25
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: So that we can be another part of the story, right?
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: Because we're not the only African-American history museum in the country.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: The other part we think about, is there any particular
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: story we can tell better than someone else? Because of what?
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: Because of where we are, because of who we're connected to,
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: sort of those kinds of things, right? So one of
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: the questions I would get all the time when we
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: were building the museum is, well, how do you compare
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: to such and such museum or such and such museum?
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: Which was code for why do we need more than
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: one black museum? That's really what that was code for.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: And so but after coming into the museum, people will
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: come into our museum, any museum and naturally compare. Not
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: compare to say which is better, but oh, this feels
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: so much different. I went to the Smithsonian. I went
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: to the African-American History Museum in Detroit. We have a
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: museum in my community. Y'all are so different, which is good,
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: which goes exactly to your point. There is way too
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: much African-American history, way too much history of any culture, frankly.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: To fit in a single building, no matter how good
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: you are, no matter how big your digital platform is,
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: we don't get it all in. So we're not competitive.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: We are cooperative and sort of building like this entire
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: full story. And the goal is once you fall in
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: love with one museum, every time you go somewhere, you're like,
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: you know what? I wonder what the museum scene is
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: around here.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: Like, you know, when you read a really good book
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: by that one author, you're like, well, what else they wrote?
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: So that's actually what we're trying to do as a
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: sector and as a community.
• 19:57
  Speaker 6: How hard has that become, though, with all of the
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: money and the funding that is being removed from making
• 20:02
  Speaker 6: sure y'all have these museum scenes? Like, I know y'all
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: are currently going through something.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: Yes. So this is when... I throw up the white cap.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: Now listen, y'all remember when that brother threw up that
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: white cap, right? And folk came running, cap thrown, okay? Listen,
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: all your brothers and sisters working at museums, we are
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: throwing up the cap. Where y'all at? Because it is very,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: very real. And I think one of the things that
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: folks need to understand is... that when an organization, and
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: I'm going to stick with museums, chooses to be nonprofit,
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: we choose to go the nonprofit business route for a reason,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: which is that we do not ever want cost to
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: be a barrier to coming in. If museums, I am included,
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: charge what it really cost us to operate, we'd be
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: paying Disney prices. You'd be paying Disney prices to come
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: up in here, right? Now, you know, for my history wonks, maybe,
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: but that's not what we're going for, right? We want
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: folks with six kids to be able to come you know,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: so to the museum. And so we work on a
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: combination of, yes, those ticket prices, But you come in,
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: you see, you want to support. That's where the donations
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: come in, right? That is where philanthropy comes in. And
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: black folks don't use the big word philanthropy all the time,
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: but we are natural philanthropists. We've been doing it ever
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: since we've got here. If you've ever pitched in for
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: a rent party, gave somebody a little $ 10, $ 15 because
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: they was going to college, helped somebody out with a book.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Bought a dinner.
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: Bought a dinner because folks look hungry. Any of that stuff.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: It's actually all philanthropy, right? So that's the space that
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: we're in. And it is Critical right now, because, yeah,
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: the big, quote unquote, big funders, the ones that require
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: the press releases, you know, they are pulling back. Some
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: because they were always uncomfortable in the space, some because
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: they they're scared to be in the space right now,
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: some because they've been told get out of that space.
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: So, I mean, the Trump administration did. The cut and
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: dismantled federal funding for libraries and museums.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: They did it straight out. He signed an executive order.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: They did. Right. And so so that's in that space.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: And I'm of two minds, which is one. I am.
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: We are. You are taxpaying citizens. And because of that,
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: you know. I think my taxes should be able to
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: fund some of the things that I like and maybe
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: some of the things that I don't like because my
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: neighbor likes something I don't like. Fine. So at the
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: end of the day, the museum community and sector, we
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: are still in the fight, right? We're still going for
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: what is ours, this whole thing of reclaiming. But in
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: the meantime, cap up, brothers and sisters. Which means that
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: we also have always had the power to support these
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: institutions ourselves. And what I ultimately want is the combination
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: of both of those things.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: I want the big resources. I want the grandmama pocketbook resources.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: I need all of that. But right now, clearly we're
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: leaning into the people. And, you know, I'm always appreciative.
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: Folks will come up and say, listen, I gave you
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: a little something. It wasn't much, but it was what
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: I could do. Just stop right there. I gave you
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: a little something. Period. Period. You have no idea what
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: it means. First of all, the spiritual boost alone, right,
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: is actually enough. And that's what we've actually seen with
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: a lot of the donations that are coming in right now.
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: Folks are also sending in words of encouragement. So one,
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: never second guess your gift.
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: It really, really does matter. And then tell people about
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: your gift because that matters, too.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm here. I'm literally on message. This is
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: what I do.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: Obviously, I believe. But sometimes it's even more important if
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: someone who's not directly connected with the museum in this way,
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: tell someone else, this is what I did. You should
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: join me because they are not obligated actually to be
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: to be in that space.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: When people want to donate, where do they go?
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: They go to the website, www.iaamuseum.org, and there are all
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: kinds of ways to donate. And for y'all ballers out there,
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: we also take stock and checks with lots of zeros. Hey,
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: let's run up to the museum. You want to be outside?
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: Just want to let you know. And then, of course,
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: for the folks who, you know, who like to have
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: their receipts in real time, you can always mail to
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: us as well. And our address is on the website
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: as well. Yeah, I wanted to know, going back to
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: the three families, how did you find them? So this
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: is also one of the things that I'm proud of.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: When when Miss Lanier chose us as the home for
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: the images of her ancestors and therefore everyone, we became
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: one of, if not the only museum in the country
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: that has artifacts and displays for all three of those stories.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: And part of that is because her story is one
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: of the newest ones. Right. And so we're helping to
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: make that that story part of the big picture. Now,
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: it's actually interesting. So I don't know how or why
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: I knew about Clotilde the Last Slave Shit, but I've
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: known about that since I was a little girl. Maybe
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: because I'm into like intrigue. And I was like, what
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: you mean? Like, who would make up the fact that
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: they people came on a slave? Who makes this stuff up?
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: So I was always fascinated by that. And I'm a
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: big Zora Neale Hurston fan. And so Zora Neale Hurston's book, Barracoon,
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: was published. I'm not going to get this wrong, but
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: it was published more recently than the interview. She did
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: the interview in like the 1930s. And then the book
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: wasn't published until I was in something like high school
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: or college or something like that. So I always knew
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: that story. And then, of course, I knew the story
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: of David Drake. Drake the Potter had no idea he
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: was from South Carolina. Now I know I should just guess.
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: If I run into an African-American person who has done
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: something great and I don't know where they're from, I'm
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: just going to assume it's some town in South Carolina
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: I've never heard of. And so... We had all of those.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: And I just woke up one day and I was like,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: wouldn't it be amazing if I could like bring all
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: three of them together at the same time? And so,
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: you know, I got a praying grandmother. I shot my shot.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: And they all said yes. But I think what was
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: really interesting is that they were all excited to come.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: And I actually forget what it is like to bear
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: the burden of having your story shared. squashed, right, or
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: having someone try to hide the story. And so a
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: call from a museum saying, hey, we're a museum. We
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: do history. We know history. We want you to come
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: and tell your story was just very different than a lot,
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: I think, of the experiences that folks had been through.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: And so I had to remember that. Meanwhile, I'm fangirling
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: over all of these descendants. And they're like, well, we
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: got a call from the International African-American Museum of So
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: I'm just really excited about that.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: So what is the They Lived exhibit? I haven't seen
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: that one yet.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: That's because it opens this week.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, okay.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So They Lived. So... This
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: is some interesting kind of background. So this, again, goes
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: to the images. And again, Google Tamara Lanier and see
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: more about her fight. And then you'll come to the museum.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: So these images that we got out of Harvard University
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: were taken in 1850. Taken in 1850. Of course, we're
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: in South Carolina. But the images were created to prove
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: that black folks were a different subspecies of human.
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: That's why the images were taken there. Even once that
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: theory was discredited, you know, the images were lost, locked
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: away in a drawer. She discovered that they were there.
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: And so we have the images. There are seven individuals.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: At the very least, we actually know all of their names.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: First names. I say first names depending on family and descendants.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: They will or won't take the name of the enslaver
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: in the plantation. And so when it was time for
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: us to think about how to display these images and
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: introduce them to the public, we didn't want to focus
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: on the situation. We wanted to focus on the individuals, right,
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: the people. And so they lived is a shout out.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: To that, right? They're not just pictures. They're not just images.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: They're not just stories locked in a drawer, accidentally discovered
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: in the 1970s again. And so that's where that's going.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: And I will let folks know, because as we start
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: to talk more about this, I know everybody going to
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: have their favorite person. Listen, listen. I told you these
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: things are old. And even the reproductions that we can
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: use for display are incredibly sensitive because they are daguerreotypes.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: Practice saying it. Degaria types. And so that means we're
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: only going to have two, three or four images on
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: display at a time because they need to rest. They
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: literally need to rest. Even though we have a darkened space,
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: they can even only be in that space for so
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: long that we've got to pull them back, let them
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: rest in complete darkness and isolation. And so luckily there
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: are 15 images in total. And so we will be
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: rotating them. But it allows us to tell more of
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: the story. And we're going to work on doing the genealogy.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: As I mentioned, there were seven individuals. We understand the
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: lineage of two of them, Renty and Delia. So we're
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: going to be doing the genealogy and try to find
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: living descendants of the other five individuals and let them
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: know that they are connected to these stories.
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: Now that's one of my favorite things about the International
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: African American Museum. You can go there and literally just
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: get lost in your family history.
• 29:05
  Speaker 6: Lost.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: Lost. We've got the Center for Family History. We've got
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: a genealogy center built right into the museum. And it's
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: not a closet. It's not a closet. It is a
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: nice big space. We have Live computers, live kiosks, screens,
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: specially trained staff and volunteers. And for anyone who's ever
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: played on any of these sites for genealogy, you know
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: it's a rabbit hole. You just go in there and
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: you just think, well, who's that? Who's that? So folks
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: will come in. Some folks have been doing this for
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: a while. If you're just getting started, we say, you know,
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: plug in the name of the oldest person that you
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: know in your family or the oldest generation. person that,
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: you know, just put their name in there and voila.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: Then sort of the story begins and folks are looking
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: left and right. If you get stuck, we'll help you
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: kind of get in stuck. We have free orientation classes
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: during the week. We do deep dive webinars, open access
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: from our website. We've got a podcast. Folks are very,
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: very much into the genealogy conversation. And I think it's important.
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: I think, you know, folks are, it's interesting. Folks are
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: very interested in even taking it all the way back,
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: you know, to the period of slavery and enslavement and
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: then getting beyond that, perhaps even going earlier than that.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: We're working on tools and techniques to do that, but
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: also then understanding, well, if you were enslaved here, How
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: is it that we ended up owning like a little
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: pharmacy over here, like in this space? And that's when
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: the journey becomes really interesting. I think really, really powerful. Yep.
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: Folks be finding cousins, all that kind of stuff. Yeah.
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: When people say, and I'm going back to just people
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: erasing black history, right? When people say teaching slavery makes
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: white children feel guilty, why isn't there ever equal concern
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: about what happens to black children when their history is erased?
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a powerful question there. And part of what
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: I would say is I'm big on language, right? And
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: so if it were possible to erase Black history, we
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: wouldn't be able to build a brand new Black museum, right?
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: So it is, as our icon, Dr. Lonnie Bunch has said,
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: a fool's errand in more ways than one. You cannot
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: erase it. That history is always going to live at
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: the dining room table. It's always going to live at
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: the porch. And one of the things, you know, I
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: think one of the reasons that we don't focus as
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: much on how sort of the way we tell history
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: now burdens other children is because I don't think that's
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: actually what happens, right? Obviously we have white families, white
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: students coming through our museum and Black History Museums all
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: over the country all the time, right? And that is
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: not what we see. We do not see them leaving depressed.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: We do not see them demanding emancipation from their parents
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: because they have decided that their parents are not doing
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: things wrong. We do sometimes see, especially the really young ones,
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: asking really basic and powerful questions. Well, that doesn't seem right.
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: How did that happen? Okay, buckle up, auntie. In terms
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: of that, but it does give, I think, adults an
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: opportunity to really answer, I think, the question. But I
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: do think that your point about not showing black and
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: brown children their stories and themselves in their history is detrimental, right?
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: It is.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: It is detrimental. It constrains the imagination. You know, we
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: like to say, if you can't see it, you can't
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: be it. I would gently disagree because black and brown
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: folks have always become things that we had never seen before.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: It's literally part of part of what we do, this
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: radical black imagination. Right. And so we do that. But
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: in the meantime, we shouldn't we shouldn't allow the weight
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: of that to live with those who are exceptions. Right.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: To those who can fight through all of the negative messages,
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: there are good and bad things. that are indeed happening.
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: But to pull all of the good things, to pull
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: all of the heroes, to decide that there are only
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: three people responsible for the civil rights movement, that is
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: not helpful at all. And people can't see that. And
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: I think sometimes what we also see is even, quote, unquote, success, right?
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: How will we decide? Maybe you got your name in lights,
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: you got the money, you got the house, all that.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: And folks are still wilding out, right, from the inside, right?
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: And you can see it's just not enough. And I
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: think part of that is because of those images, right?
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: Thinking that your power and the reason that you get
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: this is because of the accoutrements, the money, the fame,
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: not because this is how you were built.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, knowing your family history can be a form of healing.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: One hundred percent. And it's not just knowing that there
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: were heroes in your family, knowing that folks in your
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: family were not perfect and they made mistakes and they
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: made missteps. Right. But you are still here. So that
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: means that your mistakes and your missteps are not going
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: to destroy your descendants anymore. As they as they come through.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: And I think it's it's just really important. And I
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: think that if you are in the majority, we're using America,
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: but anywhere, if you are in the majority and your
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: story is dominant, I don't think I think it's more
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: difficult to understand what it's like to not have that. Right.
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: I think because it becomes so natural to see yourself
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: and hear bits and pieces of your story that you
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: can relate to everywhere.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: That it's hard for you to really conceive of when
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: that is not there, when there is a vacuum of it.
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: But there is some instinct around that. There's some instinct
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: around that because when you run into the scarcity mindset,
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: a lot of folks will say, are really saying, well,
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: if we take up time and space to tell your story,
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: what's going to happen to mine?
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: And so, A, that's a scarcity mindset. Okay, listen, we
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: can have as many museums as the people decide to fund. Ding, ding.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: So there is that. But so there is actually some
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: instinctual understanding that having your story front and center is important.
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: But I think the mistake is in thinking that there
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: is only room for one story. That is 100 percent
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: not true.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: What is the name of the podcast?
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: That's a very good question. I don't know.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Are you one of the hosts?
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: You can find it on our website. And actually, I'm
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: proud to say I'm not like our public historian. We
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: have Brandon. And then we also have the director for
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: the Center for Family History.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: He also leads the podcast as well. Sometimes we have
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: ourselves as guest stars. We got some amazing people. And
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: sometimes we bring folks on as well. You got the
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: voice for it. That's why I asked. Thank you. Thank you.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: No joke. Run the programming down again one time for
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: this weekend.
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: OK, so lots of lots of programming, lots of programming.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: So if you are within a driving distance and want
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: to come and hang out with us, the new exhibition
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: They Lived opens to the public this Friday, Friday afternoon.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: We are having that amazing panel that I just talked
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: about with all of the descendant families. That's actually followed
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: by a panel of a group of chefs called the
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: Oxtail Collective, Big Ups to Philadelphia. That panel is being
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: moderated by Chef Carla Hall, who is coming in. And
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: then that evening, we're having a private ceremony congratulating all
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: of our I Am Culture Award-y winners. And then they
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: will be floating around with our honorary grand marshals on Saturday,
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: Homecoming on the Yard. So admission to the museum is free.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: So if you plan to go inside, you do still
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: want to register on our website because, you know, we
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: get capacity, but we're activating the yard. So there is
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: no registration necessary for the yard. You know, come on down,
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: bring your family. And then for those who are still
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: going to be supporting from afar, because that's what I said,
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: you don't have to be there to support us. Definitely
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: check us out on our website and our social feeds
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: because we're going to have some influencers and folks doing
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: some real-time commentary. We're working on being able to open
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: up virtual access to some of the panels and programming
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: and that kind of thing as well.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: And my last question.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: Yes, sir.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: It's called homecoming.
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: It's called homecoming.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: What does coming home mean for people whose ancestors were
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: forcibly brought to this country?
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, home is space and home
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: is place. Home is the place that welcomes you in
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: all of yourself. Home is that place. Home is the
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: place that feeds you, sometimes physically, sometimes spiritually. And some folks,
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: I think, who are listening know what it's like to
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: have to create a home somewhere else or know what
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: it's like to be pulled into a home. And that's
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: what we try to do at the museum. There are
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: some folks definitely connected to South Carolina. Come on down
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: to the Genealogy Center. We will help you prove it.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: There are some folks who will feel the ancestors when
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: they come into that space. And there are some folks
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: who are wandering. I'm looking for a space that looks
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: like me, wants me there and welcomes me into that space.
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: That is homecoming. That is why we're bringing those images
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: out to share their full stories because they did live.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: But that is also why I get to come to
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: places like this and talk to the nation about this
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: is the place that you can call home, come visit,
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: come see, come feel welcomed. We might even give you
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: a biscuit. But then after that also, then think about
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: supporting us and go back home and support the organization
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: that looks a bit like us in your own hometown.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Tanya Matthews.
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: Good to be here.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 39:01
  Speaker 5: Dr.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Tanya Matthews. I just love the word homecoming. I just
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: love the word homecoming.
• 39:03
  Speaker 6: It just makes me so happy.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: Which homecoming are you going to this weekend?
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Probably the music.
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: What?
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Why are you lying?
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Because we're here to support our homecoming.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: It is another one. I said I love homecoming.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 39:12
  Speaker 5: It's the breakfast program.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Every day I wake up.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club.
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: Thank you for joining us.