Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / The Importance of Tap Class and Why You Should Be Taking It

Transcript

The Importance of Tap Class and Why You Should Be Taking It · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: The language of tap dance takes on many forms, from classic Broadway style to gritty, resonating professional.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Tap dance has a rich history that's uniquely American, but sadly it's one of the styles that can be neglected in the studio and the competition world.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: On today's episode, we are joined by tap dance specialists Michelle Tolson and Angelina Young Savage to talk about the importance of tap dance and how it can help you achieve success in other styles.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, this is Courtney Ortiz, your host for Making the Impact a Dance Competition Podcast.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody! Before we jump into this week's episode, we just want to say thank you to everyone who's been listening and supporting us on this podcast journey.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: The response has been overwhelming, and we are so thankful for everyone who's been listening and sharing.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you to everyone who's been subscribing as well.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want to stay up to date, we launch every Monday throughout the dance season, and you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and leave us a review.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to do that.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot to talk about today, and we are talking about all things tap.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: So let's start to get to know the amazing IDA judges that we have here today.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to start with IDA judge Michelle Tolson.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me all about you and all of your credits and things and anything you want to share with the podcast listeners.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Hi.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, Courtney and Leslie.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Michelle Tolson.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: I am originally from Manchester, New Hampshire.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up tapping there, and my parents drove my little brother and myself to Boston as we got older to take classes.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Jeanette Neal Dance Center, very well known.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_03: I had some wonderful teachers.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was very fortunate to become a Radio City Roquette for six years.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I was a college professor at Wagner College, working in their tap and jazz programs.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've been an educator for 31 years and a judge for 19.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you're amazing.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you do everything, and you're a rock star.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Next up is the amazing Angelina.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Angelina.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, everybody.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Angelina.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I now live in Las Vegas.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so you're all recording.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like at night, and I just left work early, so here I am.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the former director of Resonance Tap Experience.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: We ran tap festivals in Pittsburgh and Cleveland and Indianapolis.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sold that whenever I moved to Las Vegas.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And now I am an entertainment manager for Best Agency here in Vegas, and we do lots of casting, and I do full show production and all of that jazz from downtown Summerlin, like little mall parades to we cast.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: I work with the tap dancers at Rose Rabbit Lie.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we do a little bit of everything out here.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: We have got some awesome guests here with us today.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys so much for being here.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to mention, as you guys know, and Angelina, you were actually a contributor on this original blog topic back in 2017.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh good.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, vintage.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Vintage.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: We uh all of our all of our podcast topics are pulled from our blogs, from the IDA blog.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And this one was our first tap blog.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was called Keeping Tap Timely in a Contemporary World.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, listeners, if you want to check out the show notes to find the link to that blog and read what those contributors had to say, including some of Angelina's thoughts, head on over there.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm excited to talk about tap tonight because tap is such an important part of the dance world.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we're going to talk about this eventually in the podcast, but you know, as judges, I don't see as much tap on the stage as I wish that I did.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we're here to talk about tap and remind everybody how fabulous it is and how important it is.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so to kick things off, why do you think that tap is a dying art form?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, why do you think what happened in the industry?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I remember, and I think we all know that like I started with tap.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: That was like one of the very first dance styles I learned.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: I did a combo, jazz, ballet, tap class, you know, and like learned rhythm and learned how to shuffle step and stomp around.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why what happened to the tap world?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: What happened to tap in the dance world and specifically the competition world?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think it's left us so much?
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that uh unfortunately kids stop taking it at a certain age, and that's why you see less of it in competition.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: We also have studios that don't emphasize it or need it for their comp teams.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: It just makes me sad.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then a lot of kids think that you have to have all the tricks of the flash and have to hoof to be a tapper, and that is so not true.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Kids don't know time steps or cramples anymore but are doing wings and pullbacks and figgity bops.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's a multiple reasons why we're losing tap.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: I know as a teacher, when I'm at convention, the first question I ask is, Who is your favorite tap dancer?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of kids have no clue about who a tap dancer is.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: They can't name a historical one, a contemporary one.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: They can't name a woman.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we're lacking in our education at the studio level and at the at the university level.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think we don't put as much emphasis on it, unfortunately.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Angelina, what do you think?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I same.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it's so the lyrical and contemporary and jazz probably 10 to 15 years ago were so over awarded and over-emphasized, especially in the competition scene, that tap just kind of got forgotten and it wasn't being rewarded.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of studios were just like, oh, if we're not gonna win with this, then we won't we don't need to offer it to our students and or we won't showcase it in competition.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then if we're not going to perform in a competition, parents aren't gonna pay for it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's a lot of where especially in the competition world it came from.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: We were lucky to come from a studio that you at least had to take a task class.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like so many places now it's like you don't even it's not required, and then you see that trickle down the line where you're losing the musicality and you're used losing some of the performance and moving with your full body, and then you just I don't know, like it's just it's that trickle effect.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: I also think some people do not want to tap at competition because of the Marley.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: I I know if you have some I've seen some wonderful tappers, but they're losing their sounds because they have to be on the Marley, so it can be discouraging as a tapper.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm also sad to see the art of dancing in heels gone in tapping.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: I grew up tapping in heels.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're going to be on Broadway, you have to tap both flat and heels.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: So that I just feel like we're losing the art form.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I know we have some fantastic tappers out there trying to pass that knowledge down, but I I do think a lot of it is that it's not emphasized anymore because, like Angelina said, jazz contemporary, that's all we're doing.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it I think that's is exactly it.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I think all of those points are so true.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the same, you know, very much can be said about jazz.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like contemporary is so I I don't I don't know why every kid in America just like, I want to do contemporary solo.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's all everyone cares about.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that they care about it because they win.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Those that's what ends up winning.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I know for a fact, and I've sat on judging judging panels, and I'm sure ever people who have been listening who have sat in the audience and watched a killer tapper come out and sweep the competition.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you are an unbelievable tapper with exceptional skill and technique and style, that's gonna honestly I I will make that win.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I will I will recognize that happens.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I'm and I sometimes just sit there with like my jaw dropped, like this is unbelievable.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so inspired by you.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, thank you for bringing something different to the stage because you're not doing contemporary and you're actually good at tap as well.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So like I think that dancers shouldn't get discouraged or feel that like, well, contemporary is the only thing that's gonna win, so I need to do it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if you're good at tap, do tap.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like and don't be afraid to do it and bring it to the stage.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: We wanna see that.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I I feel going back to what Michelle said about the Marley, that a lot of students get discouraged because of it.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, we know what we're watching.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Go tap on your Marley.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: We we can see what your feet are doing.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: We don't need to like you can still hear what your intentions are.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we know if you missed that step based on what your feet are doing.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So just go do it.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't mean because there's Marley, you need to tap the stage away.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you don't have to try to tap so loud that you're tapping totally like gonna hurt yourself because you're trying to be so loud.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I d what and what do you guys think?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually really curious because I've seen this a couple times and I have my own personal thoughts.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear y'all's.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen soloists and even a couple group members actually come out with their own personal individual tap board.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I see.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: What what do y'all think?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: In the competition setting, like that totally valid to have for your own personal practice and everything, but at a competition, what do you think about that option?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if you're coming out with your own tap board, I'm expecting you to blow me away.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: So you've already set up an expectation.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm hoping you're going to be amazing.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: If your dance is not star search ready material, your tap board didn't help you.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Same.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: If I see that tap board out, I will you better wow me because if you're bringing in the tools that you know you need to succeed, you should know enough to be on stage with like power and personality and like all of the things that you need, not just a board.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: But sidebar with competition, I also think it's difficult for kids to want to tap because many judges don't know how to judge tap.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Preach, preach it to the back of the room.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: So uh they could be killing it out there, but if a judge doesn't know tap or love tap, I mean, I'm not huge, I'm not a hip-hop dancer, but I can enjoy a good hip-hop dance.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes the kids feel like they're scored lower.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I would hope that competitions would take that into account when picking their staff.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Which I do know for a fact that at least the competitions that I work for with IDA do do that every time because I staff the competitions that use impact dance adjudicators and IDA judges at their events.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So those competitions will come to me and they will say, We need a tap judge for this location because they know based on who is attending that they have a huge tap, you know, client coming and they they need to have quality tap critiques.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's smart casting of your panels right off the bat.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of competitions need to do that more often, especially at least cater to who they know is coming.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you see that there's a whole huge entry list of tap routines, make sure that there's at least one judge at least that knows advanced tap.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Every judge should know basic tap, but there needs to be at least one that knows advanced.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that is important.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I would challenge all of the any other judges too, that if you don't consider yourself like the tap judge, take enough tap classes that you can judge it intelligently and that you know what you're watching for.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't just judge mean, yes, we should be judging personality and arms and everything else, but that you have a little bit more feedback to give than judge that's just a cool your arms.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and even thank you for using the stakes.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like well, and you can't do that with a tap board, which is my my personal pet peeve about the tap board, because I'm like, okay, cool, like you could have made all those sounds anywhere on the stage and made some interesting shapes with your body and made some interesting patterns with your choreography.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I'm judging a full well-rounded piece, I don't want to just stare at you in one spot, which is what a tap board eliminates is your ability to move anywhere.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a little torn about it, but like you both said, if you're coming out here and you're gonna and you have a tap board number one, you've spent the money because you work hard enough to be able to wow me by buying that, however much tap boards cost.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you better be on point.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And talking about spending money on a tap board, can we talk about tap boards?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Very good.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about them.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so you ladies are both, you know, tap is your specialty.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I know both of you do everything, but tap is is where you kind of that's your sweet spot.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, let's ask this question.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: What what are your favorite tap shoes to wear, Angelina?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have a pair of Acropolis tap shoes that Pete gave me at the Capizio store when I was in college.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're my like, I think I've had them resold probably 10 times, and I keep trying not to give them up.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: But when they saw their last days, I got a pair of Miller and Benz that were my resonance colors, and I love them, but they still don't have that sentimental value or the sound quality of micropolis, I have to say.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: But I haven't, you know, you haven't been wearing them for 15 years either.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: But those are my I have a pair of K360s, they're fine.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: I like my Miller and Benz better and then my my there.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's nothing like having a pair of peach shoes if you've been there and got had the chance to do that.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And Michelle, what about you?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Michelle's smiling.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: I can tell she knows.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's a tough question.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: I think it depends on a person's foot.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: I have a long, narrow foot.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: So every tap shoe falls off my heel.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: I am partial to a K360.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: I've had a pair for 15 years to different typical pairs.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: I just moved into a Jay Samuels though, and I gotta say, I really I'm not tapping as intricately now.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm at a different studio, so I'm starting their tap program.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: So for what I'm doing, the sound is great and the comfort is great, and the price was half that of the K360.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: But I do love the bass sound of a K360.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: But that being said, if I see a 10-year-old coming out with a Ben and Miller, I got some issues.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me, tell me these issues, Michelle.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, first of all, I think it's a lot of money to spend on a shoe that your kid's gonna outgrow in three months.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: I absolutely agree.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Second of all, you don't have time to break them in because they're custom.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: You you're getting them a month or two before competition, they're not broken.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: And they take a while to mold to your feet, any of these shoes that we're talking about.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to learn how to manipulate them to get the sounds you want.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's a heavy shoe for a child that has not grown into their shape or their foot or into their genre, even.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm not mad about a Mary Jane.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: I have my kids in Mary Janes, and I I don't I have no problems with that.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: I just think you need to be able to manipulate the shoe and understand the language of tap before going into a semi-pro or a pro tap shoe.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: But in manipulating the shoe, Michelle, correct me if I'm wrong.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean that you want to be able to manipulate your foot so much that we're in a split soul.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Preach it, preach it to the back of the room.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So like bring that up and just say that like I am so I do not want to see those slip-on tap shoes and those split soles tap shoes.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And how many have you seen fly across the room?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Every toe stand, it's like I'm terrified because they're gonna, you know, they're like, they're in a it's a jazz shoe with taps on the bottom.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's essentially what it is.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's just dangerous.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then you come out on the Marley and you wanna like tap again, go back to tap tapping through the floor because you think you need to tap so loud.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's even more injuries waiting to happen because you don't have a soul to even take any of that shock absorption.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think that a shoe is a misconception.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think that some people think the more expensive the shoe, the better you're going to tap.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I worked at a studio for 14 years and they were strong tap dancers, and they were just wearing a block tap shoe or a TV tap shoe, a$50 tap shoe, and we killed it at every competition.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's what you teach them, it's how you teach them, it's how you teach them the language of tap.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's missing too in the tap world.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Tap is a language.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: You're telling a story, and I just talked about this at convention.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's a story, just like jazz, just like lyrical, you're still telling a story.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think that we lose that.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and kind of going back to everything that we just said, I feel like that, you know, talking about tapping in Marley on Marley and talking about, you know, the different types of shoes.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that a lot of teachers are kind of like, oh, well, the judges didn't the judges obviously didn't know what tap is because they they didn't score it properly and they didn't know what that step was, and they called this step that step.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's so many times when I'm watching and I'm like, I don't know what step you're trying to achieve right now.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I in the group or in the solo, I'm like, was that uh I'm not sure what it what that was supposed to be.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So then I just take a guess and then the you know, the teachers listen and they get offended that I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm like, no, no, no, but I do.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the issue is not that doesn't know what she's talking about.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Her vocabulary is solid, but the dancer's execution of that vocabulary, that could very well have been a falla, but it was supposed to have been a shuffle.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: But how are we to know because you didn't execute it properly?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we take a guess and say, if that was, and I usually say this, this is how I get around that critique of our critiques, is if that was supposed to be a shuffle, it was not.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: It looked more like a falla.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: It shows that I'm very confused.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not because I don't know what I'm talking about, it's because your execution is not executed properly.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that again goes back to the language of tap.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, you know, yes, are you in a shoe that's going to properly support you?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Which the reason teachers out there, and I know, you know, there's a million different opinions about this, but clearly on this panel we all agree the split soul tap shoe is not a supportive shoe.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: It is not a well-constructed shoe.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason those shoes are not$300, you know, and it's it is a jazz shoe with taps attached.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the backup to some people's opinions about why that's okay is that it it's easier to articulate.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's just like if you were trying to do point, you know, in a ballet shoe.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can articulate better.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can point your foot better in a ballet shoe than you can in a point shoe if you don't want to work hard.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you would like to work hard and articulate and work through your shoe and let the shoe mold to your foot, you know, a split little tap shoe is going to do that in a second because it's not built to make you work for it.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, sure, okay, you can you can articulate a little bit better, easier, quicker, but do we want that?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's cheating.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's, you know, skipping over a foundational element of tap dance is training those muscles to work through the shoe to articulate the way you want, right?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna I want to go back to talking about shoes.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Again, that studio I was at for 14 years.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: I would have them one year compete in flats, hard shoes, and the next year compete in their heels because I wanted them to get used to wearing both kinds of shoes.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so we would take class in both kinds of shoes.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that needs to be stressed too.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say this for jazz as well.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: Dancers need to learn how to dance jazz and musical theater in heels.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how you go to convention and take a musical theater class without your heels.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I you're preaching to me about the right things because I say that in my class every time.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, please get your heels on.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time they don't.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I understand not all dancers have their musical theater heels, but you know, if they do, you should have them in your dance bag.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if musical theater is on the schedule, you should be putting them on your feet.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I I'm with you.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like speaking of tap and heels, I mean, I I didn't grow up doing tap and heels.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not exactly sure like what style tap I learned growing up, like if it was like more like a rhythm tap, I guess.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: We did like classic tap and we did like a little heel sometimes, like if depending on the costume.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: A little heel.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: But we never like right now, you know, I'm a professional dancer now in New York, and in New York, you tap in heels.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you really don't not tap in heels.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I for for the longest time, I mean I've been here for 10 years and I just got taps and heels.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Where we always borrowed my tap heels.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like finally, because I was like, I can't, I'm not a heel tapper, like I don't know how.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I I got them and I made the mistake of getting three-inch heels.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, poor choice.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a bad choice, but they were cheap and laducas, cheap laducas.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, okay, but it's a whole nother ball game.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just like in jazz and to musical theater from flats to heels, same thing for tap, because you're already on the balls of your feet, and then you add a heel behind it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now you have to figure out how to get even higher up, you know, your weight's in a different place.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it just really changes the game a lot.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's smart for dancers to understand how to do both.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I had maybe a little head because I grew up in heels, I think that being a rocket was a little easier for me.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: That transition, it didn't feel awkward to me to be in the heels every day because at the age of 12, I in my shimmer types, I was uh dancing to liberace with some boas, you know, like to I love a piano.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, no, I had a I had some wonderful beginner tap teachers that gave me a strong, strong foundation in tap.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: I know like 120 time steps.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even know we had that many.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then when it was time to move on, my parents realized, okay, we're gonna move you on.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's when I started learning what rhythm tap was.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I have a classic tap background with a mix of the rhythm tap.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: My brother is a tap dancer as well.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: He I would consider him a hoofer.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a hoofer, I'm a mix.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would love to hear both of y'all's thoughts on and just sort of an explanation for people who were like, what did I grow up learning?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because I I'm similar to Courtney, like I had a little mix of both.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we did Al Gilbert graded records, yes, little children records that we we learned how to tap dance to.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I that was my basis.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had a little bit of a rhythm tap mix thrown in.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then once I got to college, you know, then I started learning more about the history of rhythm tap and, you know, your Nicholas brothers and and all of those amazing people, the tap gods who come before us.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: But what what do y'all consider the differences between Broadway and Rhythm Tap?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And can you elaborate on why you think they're both important today?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I started in a studio kind of similar to everybody else, that we did a little bit of everything.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was in Pennsylvania, so there wasn't a strong tap following there.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So my teacher was from the same area that I was from, so we all just kind of knew what the convention teachers at the time were teaching, and that's what was taken and brought given to us at the studio, or from whatever artists that we could bring in from Chicago or from New York to teach and help us out.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's I don't know that the I there's not a style, it's just Whatever was being taught at the time.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went to college in Allentown and studied under Shelly Oliver and Nicole Hawkenberry, mostly under Shelly.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Nicole was a member of Shelly's company at the time.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I learned really about rhythm tap and about more intricate timing and more intricate counting, working more into the floor and things like that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, because I'm old compared to you guys, there was no hoofing when I was growing up.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I told you shimmer time.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it was classic tap.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: I I learned I had an 80-year-old tap teacher, and then I had an older gentleman that taught me.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, like I said, time steps, cramp rolls, flaps, shuffles, irishes.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: I learned every way to turn a step.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: And my brother was stuck at the studio with me, and he started taking tap, and then he got very good at it.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: And he was friends with Derek Grant, and him and Derek worked with Savion Glover.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's when I was introduced to the world of hoofing.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't do it.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: I watched them do it.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then I, like I said, went to Boston to do Jeanette Neil where I danced with Julia Boynton.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I was on scholarship at Dusty Ordano, so Lane Alexander.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I had these wonderful teachers that were teaching me the language.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I keep going back to that because rhythm tap is just a language.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's all what do you hear musically?
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: And when I'm judging, I tend to not even watch a tapper.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm ear to the floor, tilted to the side, listening to the story you're telling me.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: So rhythm tap is, I guess it's like lyrical contemporary.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what I'm saying?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like you got your lyrical and you got your contemporary.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: You've got your tap and you've got your huffing.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's the same thing, but it's different.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's just, it's, it's given to you differently.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the same.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that a lot of the Broadway style that we send, we tend to think that Broadway automatically means that you're in heels and you're doing a lot of flappal change with flexed wrists.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's not necessarily the case all the time either.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then I guess that kind of trickles down even into the musical theater in general.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: That what do we call musical theater versus what do we call jazz dance?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's a whole oh, that's another whole bag of worms.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's another whole thing.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we should totally do one of those.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: But when I was teaching at Wagner, I remember because it was a musical theater program.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: So just teaching them the 42nd Street combination side audition for that, teaching people how to do rolling shuffles.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can't go into a studio and get separated shuffles.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like I never see it on stage anymore.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a that's a basic step to me that we don't use anymore because we think toe wing pullback thingies are more important than being able to execute a shuffle shuffle properly.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: One of my favorite classes to give is like an hour and a half just workshop on do you do a shuffle on a one, a two, or one and a two and a three and a four and a I love that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Work that over and over.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's mind-blowing for for students.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: They have no idea that there's different ways to do it.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or or a full appeal, you know?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I taught last summer, I think, at a very, very good tap studio.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is a tap studio from my hometown that like everybody knows it as a great, great tap studio.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they do, they do a lot of your flex wrist, flat bell changes, but like, you know, just like Michelle said, they know how to turn everything, they know every single time step there is, they dance in heels.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I went in and I was like, okay, so we're gonna do fallap heel, fallap heel, a one, two, a three, four.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I changed it a one and a two and a three and a four and blew their mind.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, but that's not how you do a flap heel.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, but it could be, and is because it is, it's still a full.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just the so and this is actually a really wonderful segue into a question that I have for you.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: How important is music theory to tap dancing?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: So important.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Check done, moving on.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I teach music theory as part of teaching tap and thinking about tap.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm a slave to counting, probably too much sometimes, but I want everything to have its place to know how it fits in the music or how it fits in your internal music if you're just doing a cappella.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's absolutely important, especially as young dancers, to teach how to how to hear tap sounds in the music if it's not right on the one, two, three, four.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't think that kids should start learning that right away.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: I agree with you, Angelina.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm always surprised when I see like eight and nine-year-olds try to do these complicated rhythms.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, just follow lap ball change, follow lap ball change.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so happy there.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: But I do think that what's lacking as well in tap is the percussion.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like I do body percussion across the floor.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: I it's just step, clap, ball change, clap, and kids can't ball change on that beat, which surprises me.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's an important way to start working into hoofing.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I like to try to do overlapping rhythms during warm-up, like the shim shim.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: One group start on the eight, one group start on the one.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'll add another group starting on the two, and another group starting on the three.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: So the other two have eight, one, two, and three.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so funny.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: The first couple times I'm like, I have no clue.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: But we're gonna try it again.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: And we'll work on it all year because they're learning to listen to one another, which is always a problem in a tap group at competition.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: We tend not to listen to one another.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: We get very excited as a group and we're we're off the beat.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: So it's working in the classroom on listening to but knowing your count, that's the other issue.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of teachers don't count.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't have to.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm a counter as well.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Same.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: But I think I think working on body percussion is a help to to move into hooking.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that like music theory, I learned music theory because I took tap my entire life.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like I am the dancer and the teacher and the choreographer I am today because of tap class.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I look back at that and do I tap often in my professional career?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not as much as I'd like to, honestly.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I grew up tapping a lot.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I grew up in the competition world and I always competed tap and I never had a tap solo, but like I'd do trios and small groups and things, and like I learned all the styles like we talked about, but but it was so it was very strict.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we counted everything in jazz and lyrical and contemporary.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I learned that because I was in my classic basic tap class and I grew with that.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And now as a teacher, I will give you a count for every single detail of that musicality, and there will be musicality in there and it'll be with the lyrics, but it always has a count.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like to me, I feel like that dancers need to understand how important tap is to help them in other styles.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just like you said, Michelle, not everybody counts.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Some will say do a hoom bada da da da ba-da-da.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's great.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you can also count that if you really want to.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: A one and a two, a three, and a four.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's also that.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I I sometimes dancers just don't really translate that and they're like, I like to listen to the lyrics instead.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's great, but you also need an you should know how to count as well.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's an important skill, and tap teaches you that.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because of course, you know, if you're doing a lyrical tap dance to Celine Dion and she's holding out a beautiful long note, you can't just be like full lap, and that's all you do.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: You have to count within the eight counts.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: A lyrical tap dance to Celine Dion.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: I would think that's like she would throw it at you later.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: We've also brought up Celine Dion like a thousand times.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want her to listen.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: We have to like hashtag her or something because we talk about her a lot.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Celine.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, all right.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: But you were saying about dancers counting or dancing to the words.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what about all this tap trend right now where it's all spoken word?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's no, it's all instrumental.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: What what are you counting?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: What are you dancing to?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Because there are no lyrics.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to have some musicality.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're like the even the a cappella.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: But are you are you the violin?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Are you the drums?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like again, there's the language.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: Who are you being in this piece?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And like the a cappella tap dances.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about those for a minute.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because every time at competition we see very often the trend of we have a song and then the song cuts out, and then it's cuts out for like a minute, and then it comes back.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we hope that we are still in the beat with the song, but most of the time we're not.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it really comes down to can't to counting and having that internal metronome with us.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just because the music cut out doesn't mean that you just get to pick whatever tempo and timing you want to, and it's a free-for-all.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: You still have to maintain that same beat the whole time.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something you know, a lot of a lot of teachers I think get a little upset because they're like, wait, but this was so it's executed so well.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hear how great their sounds was?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, but you weren't in the beat at all.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like you weren't counting your own.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't find your one.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is always my biggest critique is like, where's the one?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: Where's your one?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can't find your one.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And like you might as you might very well be making all these beautiful sounds, but if I can't find your one, then I don't really care because then you're not speaking to me.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're not speaking the language that I understand.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I will absolutely all the time say, huh, maybe I just like we said in contemporary or not contemporary choreography, like sometimes you went on a journey that I don't understand.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: But if you believe in your journey and I believe that you believe in your journey, then more power to you.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it happens with tap, and especially because I'm not, you know, I I would prefer and do better at judging nameable steps.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to say, okay, in your triple time step, you need to make sure that spank happens on whatever count you chose it and you know, accentuate your sounds.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want to be able to name what you just did.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're doing a lot of hoofing and rhythm tap and it's happening in two minutes, and there's 17 of you, it's very hard to speak about that in a small time.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Leslie, I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in on you.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: You should still be able to name the set because it doesn't change.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Jazz is jazz, ballet is ballet, tap is tap.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Just because the the the music is different and the execution shouldn't change what a shuffle looks like.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think that's where it gets a little murky because we're thinking it's hoofing, I can stomp and tow and make up the stuff and not we've lost our foundation.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: We've lost our fundamentals a lot of times when it comes to hoofing.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that well, or maybe this is a question.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Does some of that come from teachers who only teach by showing?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is it just do this, now repeat it?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: And they can't verbalize what it was that they did.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think it might be that, and I think it might be teachers that don't necessarily have a strong tap background so they can execute something that looks close.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it looks nice, but in the competition world it it might not score as well.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get into the groups where you have 17 different versions of whatever that step was, because we don't know if it was a shuffle blah change, shafull hot step.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a blah blah blah blah to dig it up.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I would love it to do that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that I feel is worth mentioning, especially for like all the listeners, whether it's a dance teacher, a dance parent, a dancer themselves, coming from the judge's perspective is that everybody has different names for tap steps based on across the region.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely and across around the world.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: So enroll.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Very different.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know what I call certain things, and I've sat next to a judge who was calling something completely different, and I was like, what were you saying that was?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I call that step this.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because you don't realize until you're out of your region that other people call it different things.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So please remember to all of our listeners and all of the people that are attending competitions that the judges are coming from all over the place.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they're not coming from down the street, most likely, from where you're at.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're coming from flying across the country.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they might call the step that you reference completely different than what you know.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean that they're uneducated or that they're wrong.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: That that just could be how they, you know, describe that step.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And like what a beautiful history of tap that you can get from that.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: Let's we just had this conversation.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: What was it?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: A broader.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or Shirley Temple.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Or Shirley Temple.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and then also about that.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_03: A bombers.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: He'll clip bombershe.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a million different things.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's probably one of my most favorite things about tap as a style is that, you know, a plie is a plie is a plie.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I've said this before, but a tap tap can be so many different things because of its history coming from so many different places and so many different regions.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I love that.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love just the rich, you know, storied history of tap.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Did you guys ever grow up calling something, like calling a step something that like your teacher just made up the name of, and then later you found out, oh, that's actually called a this?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because mine, we did Michelle and I talked about this.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was it's a Broadway, flat, peel heels, bank heel toe heel, or a Shirley Temple.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: These I learned in college, but we called it a too many heel step because there's too many heels in that step.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's cute.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: I teach I taught for a studio that they called it my favorite.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh they were like, can we do my favorite step?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, go ahead, show me your favorite step.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, No, don't you know what my favorite step is?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a migrator.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's funny.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: Can I can I throw in something?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: As a judge and as a judge that loves tap, I love seeing a song that is picked out that works for the child's personality, a costume that works for the child's body type and joy on their face.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think doing what you do for lyrical and jazz is so important for tap as well.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think choreographers miss that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: I also think it's important in tap class to teach to jazz music, as in jazz style music, not jazz dance music.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: As well as teaching to contemporary.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's why some of the kids don't love tap because they may not like the music.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's the same for ballet.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: When I teach beginner ballet, because I'm only teaching beginner ballet, and by beginner I mean six-year-olds, I will use Disney princess music for plas before I go into classical music.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I think you have to do the same thing to hold the interest of your class.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I think music plays a big part in that.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And speaking of holding interest, I we have a few more minutes.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: I want to cover a couple more things.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Holding interest.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: We s we began this episode talking about why tap seems to just have kind of fallen off.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do we fix that?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: What can we do as teachers, as studio owners, as business owners, as convention teachers to bring it to bring it back up into the forefront and to make it interesting and to make it something kids want to do?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: I just taught at a convention and I had people that never took tap before.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I the first thing I ask is who takes tap, who likes tap, who doesn't like tap.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I was surprised it was like 15 people.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: Totally fine with that.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't you like tap?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't get it.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: By the end of the class, they came up to me.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: This was the best tap class I've ever had.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: And a girl that did not take tap register for tap the next day in her studio.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be difficult, and you have to love what you do.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think it'd be like me trying to teach hip-hop.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't love hip-hop.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: You would probably not love my class, but I love teaching tap.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you to understand tap.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that plays a big part in in all of this.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: You have to love it.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to teach your kids what the history of tap is.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: These kids didn't know.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, Angela.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_03: They didn't know the movie Tap.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: They'd never seen White Knights.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: I asked him who they follow.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: But we've got such great tappers that are making an impact.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, Syncopated Ladies and Derek Grant, Jay Samps.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's a lot of amazing tappers that have been around that are finally getting their due.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: So they're the they're our next wave.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we lost Gregory Hines and Savion's still around, but he's pretty quiet.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: But there is a wave of tappers and hoofers specifically that are out there doing it.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: We just need to know who they are as teachers so that we can educate our students.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: And students have it so easy now.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like with you can go to the computer and see any tap dancer you've ever wanted to see on YouTube.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just get lost on that YouTube train for hours and hours, and it's amazing.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like we used to have to put the VC the tape in the VCR.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: If you could if you could catch it from like the PBS documentary record.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like But unfortunately the kids are going and and nothing against it, they're going to watch dance moms.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Also, I mean I mean, the those kids are amazing.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: We all know that.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: But they're not they're looking at the tricks and and and what that looks like.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: And they they don't realize that, you know, these kids are homeschooled.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: They're at the studio like 14 hours a day.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or they're looking up, you know, how to stretch and get flexible and things like that.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you see like a flexible picture on Instagram or something and they're like, I want to learn how to do that.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: But they probably aren't looking at like an awesome tap video, you know, of an inspiring tapper.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, I don't know how to get kids, you know, more invested in tap.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, Michelle, I think that the class has to be fun.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I remember I always looked forward to tap, and I we would we would do fun things in my class, but I just loved my teacher and she was inspiring and I looked forward to it and it was different, and it wasn't as strict as ballet and it wasn't as intense as jazz and we had a good time.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And but I think for me, like for me, bringing like where I'm at now and like where my career has taken me to give like uh advice back to the youth is oh I can't I'm so glad that I took tap.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I can't say enough good things.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, it's the dancer I am today.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or I I think that if dancers realize how essential tap is and how important tap is to uh their training, that they might be like, oh, well, if tap will help me get better musicality and then I will be able to do my contemporary solo better, then maybe I I'll start taking it.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like yeah, well, it will, it automatically will.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if any dancer is like, I'm gonna be a professional, well, guess what?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: You need to know how to do tap because you need to know how to do everything.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: So put the point shoes on, put the tap shoes on, learn how to twirl a baton, learn how to breathe fire.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, seriously, like the more you can do in the industry, the better.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: So don't eliminate yourself from tap because you don't like it or you, you know, think it's boring.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you it'll help you.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you go, I mean, speaking to the professionals again, when you go to a tap audition, first of all, there's way fewer people.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and if there's not, about 75% of them can't do rolling shuffles, and you're gonna have to do them alone, and then they're gonna cut you if you can't.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's, you know, as as somebody who can do rolling shuffles and is a good tap dancer and feels confident in that, you know, I was always, boom, here's my rolling shuffles, here's my time step, here's my pullbacks, here's some wings, like here's whatever you want.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt good, but I felt so bad for those people who it you just you listened and you were like, that's not even.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's getting cut.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Those rolling shuffles are not even and she's getting cut.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know, that that could have been fixed had you taken a tap class for several years, you know.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Even basic tap.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh, there are so many times where out of an audition, you know, it'll be a jazz combination and then like the final cut.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the choreographer the choreographer will say, like, there's just a little tap section.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: We just need to see who can kind of get get through this tap.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this doesn't mean anything.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: We just need to see like where what your tap is what tap level is like.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something as simple as what we think is simple of rolling shuffle or a time step even.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean like the basic, basic things that every dancer should just know and have up their sleeve in case that's ever asked of you at an audition, because it might be.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that'll separate you from the next the person next to you.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: It'll make you more rounded well rounded.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: I worked for Sesame Street Live for 10 years and I ran the auditions.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: We always ask in auditions, show us a time step.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Time step of your choice with a break.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And every one of our shows had a like short tap section in it, and so you had to know how to do it.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you couldn't do your time step and a break, we didn't even consider most of the time didn't consider you unless you wowed us somewhere else.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Cool ladies.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that we should probably wrap up.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: But the way we like to wrap it up is to let you lead us out with any inspiring final thoughts and final tap words of advice.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Say my word of advice, one for teachers and anyone cleaning dances, lay down on the floor and watch your dancers' feet, especially in groups, so that you can see all feet and what they're doing, because your judges are 99% of the time sitting at that eye level.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: So keep in mind when you're cleaning your dances, not just for tap, for all of your dance forms, where your judge's eyes are whenever you're cleaning your own choreography.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then for any tap dancers anywhere else, tap dancers, tap teachers, listen to your music and play with your music, not just in your tap shoes.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like in your car, drum out your rhythms on your steering wheel, do a little scat and play with the different variety of musical rhythms and phrasings and things that are out there all the time.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I love tap.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a a wonderful genre of dance.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: I've been it it just it makes me so happy to hear clean tappers.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: So, this is my word of advice for choreographers more so than teachers.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_03: Make sure your dancers are able to do what you give them and make sure it's clean.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's really what we care about when we're judging.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: We love a clean dance on the beat of the music that works for the child.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not looking for the most intricate steps.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just looking for a clean piece that your child, your student likes to do.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you enjoyed this week's topic about tap.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to our very special guests, Michelle and Angelina.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Follow them on Instagram.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle at Michelle Tolston and Angelina at Angelina underscore young underscore savage.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: The original blog that inspired this episode was released a couple of years ago in April of 2017.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: More recently, we had IBA judge and tap specialist Kelly Kramer hit the blog as a guest writer with her article, The Importance of Tap Class and Why You Should Be Taking It.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly's article was a huge success on social media with over 1,000 shares.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Check out the show notes or head straight to our website to read now.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: A quick shout-out from one of our sponsors at IDA Affiliated Competitions.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Spirit of Dance Awards is a dance competition and convention with events on the East Coast, dedicated to providing a fun, fair, and exciting venue for dancers to showcase their talents.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: At SDA, you will find our judges and guest faculty to be highly qualified and knowledgeable dance professionals, with judging panels provided by Impact Dance Adjudicators.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: At each event, they offer VIP perks, designated dressing areas, and scholarship choreography and title awards.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: There are three levels of competition as well as the new Spirit class for dancers with special considerations.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: You will also find SDA events to be on time and stress-free.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Launched in 2016, their Trophies for a Calls program has proven a wonderful success.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: They have been honored to facilitate donations on behalf of participating studios totaling to over$35,000 today.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: To learn more about Spirit of Dance Awards, head to their website now at spiritofdance awards.com.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a dance competition question you've been dying to ask a judge?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now's your chance to send us your questions.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: We might answer them on the show and give you a shout-out, or you can choose to remain anonymous.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Submit your questions to us on our website at www.impactdanceadjudicators.com slash podcast via audio or text.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you like what you heard on today's episode and want more, don't forget to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: We love hearing from all of you listeners, and we may even share your review live on the air.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Coming up in the next few weeks, we've got some exciting topics, including competition kindness, social media, interviews with convention owners, and the February edition of QA with Courtney.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and Spotify.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And tune in every Monday for new episodes.