Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SAVANNAH GUTHRIE'S MOM MISSING DAY 10: VIDEO, PIX OF MASKED INTRUDER EMERGE

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SAVANNAH GUTHRIE'S MOM MISSING DAY 10: VIDEO, PIX OF MASKED INTRUDER EMERGE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Breaking news Savannah Guthrie's mother,
0:09
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie missing, day ten. What a night in the
0:16
Speaker 1: last hours we have obtained we have been given video
0:22
Speaker 1: from Nancy Guthrie's front porch. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.
0:26
Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
0:27
Speaker 1: being with us. Let's go straight to the video. He's ready.
0:32
Speaker 1: He's got his hands covered in gloves. Look to be latex,
0:38
Speaker 1: not the thin surgical gloves. Think you're latex. He's wearing
0:42
Speaker 1: a backpack. Hey, jump on that. What kind of backpack? Sold?
0:45
Speaker 2: Where?
0:46
Speaker 1: When leaning over? What is he doing? You're about to
0:50
Speaker 1: find out Genius pulled some foliage and he's going to
0:56
Speaker 1: try and cover up the camera with it. He's still
1:00
Speaker 1: trying to get it loose. He's still trying to crack
1:03
Speaker 1: it loose, leaving no fingerprints. Even his wrists are covered
1:10
Speaker 1: up so we can't see what color he is. But
1:13
Speaker 1: we've got a thinky suspicion. There you go with the foliage.
1:19
Speaker 1: He's trying to cover up the door cam. He came prepared,
1:25
Speaker 1: full on ski mask, wrists covered, face covered, hands covered,
1:33
Speaker 1: trying to cover the nest camera. The door cam. This
1:38
Speaker 1: could be the break we've all been waiting for. There's
1:43
Speaker 1: another video here. He comes walking up and is that
1:48
Speaker 1: a gun he's got tucked into his waistband, holding his
1:52
Speaker 1: face down, holding the face down so he won't be identified.
1:57
Speaker 1: Check out the backpack reflectors on the shoulders. Come on,
2:02
Speaker 1: can't we track that? Can we zoom in and get
2:05
Speaker 1: the shoes? We can get his height, We can get
2:09
Speaker 1: so much information. Now, let's see the steals off his face.
2:14
Speaker 1: You know what. She may have had a heart attack.
2:16
Speaker 1: She wakes up and sees that. That looks like a
2:18
Speaker 1: white guy. To me, a white guy right there. You
2:22
Speaker 1: can't see it. It almost looks feminine, but apparently in
2:28
Speaker 1: some of the pictures you see facial hair over the lip.
2:34
Speaker 1: It looks like brunette facial hair. Can't tell exactly, Dave
2:38
Speaker 1: Mac does that look like facial hair over the lip?
2:41
Speaker 3: It looks like a mustache to me, Nancy, it absolutely does.
2:44
Speaker 3: And hello, I love the bottom lip looks like chin
2:49
Speaker 3: hair as well.
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Speaker 1: Okay, from that, we are learning so much again. It
2:55
Speaker 1: almost looks feminine, except for what we fate could be
3:01
Speaker 1: facial hair. Joining us an all star panel this as
3:06
Speaker 1: we are also learning that buckle or buckle swabs are
3:10
Speaker 1: being taken from the inner circle surrounding Nancy Guthrie, the
3:16
Speaker 1: pool guy, the gardener, the granny, nannies, the you name it.
3:19
Speaker 1: And if they're getting bugle swabs from them, I'm sure
3:23
Speaker 1: they've already gotten them from the family. Now, somebody please
3:27
Speaker 1: tell me we've strapped everybody up to a polygraph. More
3:32
Speaker 1: and more, this seems as if someone close to missus
3:36
Speaker 1: Guthrie is at the heart of her kidnap. And again,
3:41
Speaker 1: the guy walking up, the guy, the person the purp
3:45
Speaker 1: walking up. See he's even got his neck covered, thinking
3:48
Speaker 1: we won't be able to identify what color is. This
3:55
Speaker 1: is not just a rape, just a robbery, just a burglar.
4:00
Speaker 1: We've been going round and around some people chasing their tails.
4:05
Speaker 1: Is this really a kidnap? I can tell you right now.
4:09
Speaker 1: Nobody goes through all this to run in and grab
4:12
Speaker 1: your VCR. What has he got in the backpack? It
4:18
Speaker 1: is chuck full. What's in there? It's stuffed so much.
4:23
Speaker 1: You can see when he turns around. He's not going
4:26
Speaker 1: in there to take anything. He's taking things in with him.
4:30
Speaker 1: Straight out to Lee Neubecker joining us out of Chicago
4:34
Speaker 1: cybersecurity digital forensics expert CEO of Enigma Forensics. What about it, Lee,
4:40
Speaker 1: What do you see?
4:41
Speaker 2: It's interesting because he hunches down as he goes through
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Speaker 2: the walkway. Had he not hunched down, you could go
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Speaker 2: out site measure the bricks and get us. I did
4:51
Speaker 2: a little bit of looking and making some assumptions, and
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Speaker 2: I think you guy's probably between five eleven and six
4:57
Speaker 2: foot two. But you can also see a shoes as
5:00
Speaker 2: he steps on those bricks, like right now, and also
5:05
Speaker 2: the first step it hold.
5:06
Speaker 1: It right there, right there, Yes.
5:10
Speaker 2: You're right, stop there. You could you could back up
5:14
Speaker 2: and if you knew the exact size of that brick,
5:17
Speaker 2: you could probably tell what his shoes size is. He
5:20
Speaker 2: looks like it appears to be a male based on
5:23
Speaker 2: my review of it, but knowing that his approximate height
5:27
Speaker 2: is approximate weight, and if his hair color truly is black,
5:32
Speaker 2: which it appears to be from the one show, but
5:35
Speaker 2: it could be brown, it's a definitely something to coal.
5:41
Speaker 2: I thought your comments about having the family members take
5:44
Speaker 2: polygraph was a good idea, but maybe matching up the
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Speaker 2: height of the people to see if they match up
5:50
Speaker 2: at least to Shoeshye, the shoe size which doesn't appear
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Speaker 2: to be larger than sized.
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Speaker 1: Well, oh, it is a man. There's no doubt about
5:58
Speaker 1: it being a man. It's a feminine with feminine attributes.
6:02
Speaker 1: But statistically, this is a man, and it's a freaky
6:07
Speaker 1: white man. Statistically, that's exactly what it is. I'm just
6:12
Speaker 1: wondering there he gets standing up straight right there, and
6:16
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if they're going to be able to get
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Speaker 1: any type of height from that. You know the problem
6:22
Speaker 1: with it, he's not standing right besides something to gauge
6:27
Speaker 1: the height. Lee Kniebecker, joining us Enigma Forensics, explained why
6:32
Speaker 1: he really needs to be standing besides something in order
6:35
Speaker 1: to get an accurate height.
6:37
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's enough there to discern the height.
6:41
Speaker 2: You can see where his shoulder when he bends over,
6:44
Speaker 2: you can see how high his shoulder is. Like, great,
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Speaker 2: there he's level. Yes, So you could do some mapping
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Speaker 2: to the bricks on the side by taking a tape
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Speaker 2: measure out and measuring the sidewall, you'd at least know
6:57
Speaker 2: where his shoulder goes up. And then later on, is
7:00
Speaker 2: he walks forward, his head's lifted and you can measure
7:02
Speaker 2: the head right about not there, but as he continues,
7:06
Speaker 2: he lifts his head straight and you break. So when
7:09
Speaker 2: he was standing back a little bit, there's some ability.
7:12
Speaker 2: There's certainly fascinating.
7:16
Speaker 1: Well, you know. Cheryl McCullum is joining me. Cold Case
7:20
Speaker 1: Investigative Research Institute, founder, author of a brand new book,
7:23
Speaker 1: Swamps Don't Swim in a Sewer, Solving the cold case
7:26
Speaker 1: of Flint River Killer's daughter. She's a host of a
7:30
Speaker 1: hit podcast which I play on Loop occasionally, Zone seven,
7:36
Speaker 1: and she is a forensic expert. Cheryl McCollum, how many
7:39
Speaker 1: times have you and I worked the case, worked the case,
7:43
Speaker 1: worked a case with blood, sweat, tears, literally working a
7:48
Speaker 1: case at our wits end, and then God drops a treasure,
7:56
Speaker 1: a miracle in our lapse.
8:00
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And you know, Nancy, it's not just the face
8:05
Speaker 4: that we get. That backpack. I want to talk about
8:07
Speaker 4: that a second, because that backpack is full, It is
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Speaker 4: tight with items. That's a kit, that's not somebody that
8:15
Speaker 4: went there to commit a burglary. There's no room for
8:18
Speaker 4: other items. If you watch, it looks like he is
8:21
Speaker 4: super prepared. He's going to get rid of the camera.
8:24
Speaker 4: He's got a backpack full of whatever he's going to
8:27
Speaker 4: use to do whatever he sticks in to do. But
8:30
Speaker 4: yet he's got to turn around and grab flowers to
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Speaker 4: hide behind to remove the camera. So this is not
8:36
Speaker 4: some pro Look at the odd placement of this weapon.
8:40
Speaker 4: I mean, everything is just really unusual. But another thing
8:44
Speaker 4: that sticks out for me is the flood cameras that
8:49
Speaker 4: were damaged on the guest house. Again, that looks staged.
8:54
Speaker 4: Why would you damage those cameras. It's nowhere near the
8:56
Speaker 4: front door. We know now for sure he went to
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Speaker 4: the front door, even tried the doorknob first before he
9:02
Speaker 4: did anything else. This seems stage to me, or either
9:07
Speaker 4: he thought the guest house was the house.
9:09
Speaker 1: What do you mean it seems staged?
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Speaker 4: Why else would you damage a camera on the back
9:14
Speaker 4: of the house that you're not even going to He
9:16
Speaker 4: went in the front door, we know that where the
9:19
Speaker 4: blood is, and we know the blood is Dancy. They've
9:22
Speaker 4: already said that that was the exit. So if he's
9:25
Speaker 4: only dealing with the front door, why would you damage
9:28
Speaker 4: floodlights on the back of the house. You're not dealing
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Speaker 4: with the back of the house.
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Speaker 1: Did you think that he tried to go in the
9:34
Speaker 1: back at some juncture.
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Speaker 4: Either he went there and he realized it was the
9:37
Speaker 4: long house because that was the guest house, and then
9:40
Speaker 4: he went to the front door.
9:41
Speaker 1: Take a look, guys, we were just receiving this in
9:44
Speaker 1: every once in a while, out of the blue, you
9:47
Speaker 1: get a break. Now, I'm telling you this was. It
9:50
Speaker 1: didn't just fall out of the sky. The FBI have
9:53
Speaker 1: worked long and hard to get this. To retrieve this
9:59
Speaker 1: because her home came was not recording, they had to
10:03
Speaker 1: go through a lot of hoops to get this. Joining
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Speaker 1: us is Chris mcdona, director Cole Case Foundation, former homicide detective,
10:11
Speaker 1: over three hundred homicides under his belt. He is the
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Speaker 1: star of the interview Room on YouTube. Okay McDonough analyze.
10:19
Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, I think you know there's a couple of
10:22
Speaker 5: things that we can learn here. Number one is the
10:25
Speaker 5: weapon that he's carrying. He's got it in the ready position,
10:29
Speaker 5: and that would tell us he's dominant right hand, So
10:33
Speaker 5: we're looking for somebody, you know, who is right handed
10:36
Speaker 5: that would fire that weapon. And then we look at
10:39
Speaker 5: his facial hair potentially behind that mask. It looks like
10:42
Speaker 5: he has a mustache and a goatee of some sort.
10:46
Speaker 5: Or at least chin hair of some sort. And I
10:49
Speaker 5: agree with Cheryl one thousand percent. He has come to
10:52
Speaker 5: this location completely prepared and then he puts his head down,
11:01
Speaker 5: you know, as he is walking towards the front porch.
11:05
Speaker 5: If you'll notice the lights in the background, somebody is
11:08
Speaker 5: awake in that neighborhood. So I'm assuming the authorities went
11:12
Speaker 5: over to those houses and canvas those houses pretty quickly.
11:16
Speaker 5: I also want to know where the suspects vehicle is.
11:20
Speaker 5: That's going to be a key piece of this puzzle.
11:22
Speaker 5: If he took missus Guthrie out through that door, because
11:26
Speaker 5: in this video we're not seeing any blood evidence at
11:30
Speaker 5: that point. So at some point there has to be
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Speaker 5: another video of him leaving potentially, or he put the
11:40
Speaker 5: rolling video into his pocket because it was battery operated,
11:44
Speaker 5: because it wasn't hardwired, it would still send this data
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Speaker 5: up to a server. So there's a vehicle still in play.
11:53
Speaker 5: And at some point he brings her out of that house,
11:57
Speaker 5: you know, potentially through the front door because of her
11:59
Speaker 5: blood is there or as you know Cheryl's talking about,
12:05
Speaker 5: this is a this is a staging situation where the
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Speaker 5: blood becomes an afterthought. This is after the situation that's
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Speaker 5: already you know, maybe she's been bound or certain other
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Speaker 5: indicators inside of the house, which we don't have data
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Speaker 5: on that.
12:30
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace guys gets just in and
12:38
Speaker 1: I believe there will be more. So Chris McDonough, I
12:42
Speaker 1: hear what you're saying. Look at what he's doing, Dave
12:47
Speaker 1: Matt What is he doing right there? Trying to dislodge
12:51
Speaker 1: the door cam.
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Speaker 3: He's looking for something, and you've been him reaching down
12:55
Speaker 3: to get the some type of shrubbery. But Nancy, look
12:58
Speaker 3: look at his hands, those gloves. It looks like he's
13:01
Speaker 3: wearing two pairs of gloves. Those things are stretched and
13:04
Speaker 3: that hand is much thicker than it would be for
13:07
Speaker 3: a person.
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Speaker 1: Of his size. And so I'm.
13:09
Speaker 3: Thinking that overglove he's got another glove underneath, which kind
13:14
Speaker 3: of goes back to that backpack. Why in the world
13:16
Speaker 3: would anybody come to an event like this with a
13:20
Speaker 3: backpack so filled that, I mean, what else does he need.
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Speaker 3: You're talking about eighty four year old woman who can't
13:27
Speaker 3: walk very far. Why would you need to have your
13:30
Speaker 3: backpack all filled with stuff? So something's really not right.
13:35
Speaker 3: And as you mentioned, taking the camera off I'm amazed
13:38
Speaker 3: they were able to get this much video from this
13:41
Speaker 3: system based on what they had to go through and
13:44
Speaker 3: how long it took. But I'm just I'm still looking
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Speaker 3: at this. It looks like the outfit he's wearing is
13:49
Speaker 3: brand new. It doesn't look like it's been used. Why
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Speaker 3: are they so thick except for wearing two pair?
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Speaker 1: I wonder if he changed clothes, like if he shed
14:00
Speaker 1: see what I mean? I had a purp do that
14:02
Speaker 1: before he robbed a bank in one outfit, double breasted suit, hat, wig,
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Speaker 1: you name it, came out of the bank, stripped it
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Speaker 1: all off, It was basted up the back, and he
14:13
Speaker 1: had another outfit on beneath it, shorts and a short
14:15
Speaker 1: sleeved shirt. Okay, is it possible? Look, you're right, it
14:19
Speaker 1: does look like his clothes, his hands, his legs are stuffed.
14:25
Speaker 1: Is he wearing another outfit underneath? Let's see him walking
14:28
Speaker 1: up again. Okay? Another question to McDonough, do you see
14:33
Speaker 1: if you could control room? Please show me a close
14:35
Speaker 1: up of the weapon that is dangling down from his waist.
14:41
Speaker 1: You stated that was the right hand dominant.
14:44
Speaker 5: Explained, well, if you look at his right hand there
14:48
Speaker 5: immediately he is at the handle of the weapon, so
14:52
Speaker 5: he'll he can reach right over and pull that gun out.
14:56
Speaker 5: If he was left hand dominant, it would have been absolutely,
15:00
Speaker 5: you know, the opposite direction. And so in this situation
15:04
Speaker 5: we know he's potentially right hand dominant. And if you'll
15:07
Speaker 5: notice also, Nancy, when he comes up onto the porch
15:10
Speaker 5: and then he turns around and goes back towards the
15:14
Speaker 5: debris in the you know, the area there where he
15:17
Speaker 5: bends over and picks it up. There's a brief second
15:20
Speaker 5: where he felt that maybe something he had heard, something,
15:25
Speaker 5: seen something. He pauses see him looking right there. So
15:29
Speaker 5: at some point y, Yes, there's something that spooped him
15:33
Speaker 5: for a brief second, and then he felt, okay, I'm okay.
15:38
Speaker 5: So this is telling us he's very comfortable in this
15:42
Speaker 5: environment because he continued on with that activity.
15:46
Speaker 1: Can you see which way the handle of the gun? Yes,
15:51
Speaker 1: which which side has a handle of the gun?
15:54
Speaker 5: Macdona, the right side, right where his right hand is.
15:57
Speaker 5: All he has to do is reach over and pull
15:59
Speaker 5: that weapon and all the hole.
16:00
Speaker 1: Strup, I see what you're saying. Now you're right there.
16:03
Speaker 1: It is that right there. That's the shot. That's the shot.
16:06
Speaker 1: You know, holding that shot. I wonder if we could
16:08
Speaker 1: tell what kind of tennis use he's wearing. Check it out.
16:11
Speaker 1: Everything matters, But I'm especially intrigued by the backpack. Cheryl McCollum.
16:17
Speaker 4: Why, Nancy, that backpack is stilled. Every single pocket it
16:21
Speaker 4: is stuffed with something. So it makes you think if
16:24
Speaker 4: this is a kit? Is there a tart? Is there
16:27
Speaker 4: other weapons? Is there something to bind her with, tie
16:30
Speaker 4: her up with. He didn't come there again to commit
16:34
Speaker 4: a burglary. He's got no room to put valuables. So this,
16:38
Speaker 4: to me is critical that they understand that even if
16:43
Speaker 4: you look at the very back when he bends down,
16:45
Speaker 4: even that back pocket, the small pocket has got items
16:49
Speaker 4: in it. So it tells me that is a kit
16:53
Speaker 4: like a kill kid.
16:54
Speaker 1: What do you mean, Why is looking through an opaque
16:56
Speaker 1: backpack tell you he's got a kill.
16:59
Speaker 4: He's got gloves though, he's got a way to cover
17:02
Speaker 4: his faith. He's removing cameras, he's removing lights. He did
17:06
Speaker 4: not have to do all of that and then carry
17:10
Speaker 4: more items with him inside the house and make an
17:13
Speaker 4: eighty four year old woman believe he went there to
17:17
Speaker 4: do violence. He went there to do harm. The only
17:20
Speaker 4: thing taken out of the house that we've been told
17:23
Speaker 4: is an antcy Guthrie. This tells me whatever was in
17:27
Speaker 4: that bag assisted him in getting her out of that
17:31
Speaker 4: house while bleeding. That was his goal. This was targeted.
17:36
Speaker 1: The Guthrie family has been notified about these images that
17:39
Speaker 1: have been shared with the FBI, we are told, but
17:43
Speaker 1: according to the family and law enforcement, so far, no
17:47
Speaker 1: one recognizes who the person could be. Because there was
17:52
Speaker 1: no recognition, no one could identify this guy. The FBI
17:59
Speaker 1: posted the images and the videos on a public post
18:06
Speaker 1: in the hope, in the prayer, someone could recognize the
18:11
Speaker 1: perp or even the clothing, which absolutely could lead to
18:16
Speaker 1: a break in the case. Repeat. According to sources the
18:22
Speaker 1: Guthrie family, no one within the family could identify this perp,
18:29
Speaker 1: and that is why the FBI chose to post the
18:32
Speaker 1: images and videos publicly, hoping and praying that someone would
18:39
Speaker 1: recognize not just the face, the gate, the clothing, but
18:44
Speaker 1: the backpack, anything about them. Now, the backpack to me
18:49
Speaker 1: is the most identifiable thing about it. Lee Newbecker, joining
18:54
Speaker 1: US cybersecurity digital forensics expert the CEO of Enigma Forensics,
18:59
Speaker 1: What can you tell us.
19:02
Speaker 2: The pattern of the bottom of the shoe could be
19:05
Speaker 2: validated against the size of the blocky stuffs on and
19:09
Speaker 2: that would be the easiest and fastest way to know
19:11
Speaker 2: what specific shoe and shoe size. With that information, it
19:15
Speaker 2: might being an Amazon account. It could ping a retail
19:19
Speaker 2: purchase somewhere. When you go to a shop and check
19:22
Speaker 2: out at Home Depot or any other retail store, any
19:26
Speaker 2: of the big boxes. They all have security cams and
19:29
Speaker 2: they feed that data so the intelligence can perform searches
19:33
Speaker 2: when things like this happen. But he has his foot
19:36
Speaker 2: in the snow there when he bent over, and I wonder,
19:39
Speaker 2: you know, did local police did they take pictures of
19:41
Speaker 2: the sidewalk, because somewhere there's likely a print of.
19:45
Speaker 1: Question for you, late Newbecker. What about purchases purchases of
19:51
Speaker 1: these gloves, this backpack, this face mask, which is also unique,
19:55
Speaker 1: How could it be trist.
19:58
Speaker 2: Well, there's a database captured. How did someone buy Did
20:02
Speaker 2: they buy an Amazon for every item? So the most
20:05
Speaker 2: unique items like the gun, holster, the hat, the items
20:10
Speaker 2: is one of your other guests that appear to be
20:12
Speaker 2: new and not used, you know, correlating, I mean, the
20:17
Speaker 2: shoes are the easiest thing. Plus a backpack probably be spotted.
20:21
Speaker 2: Once you get two of those, you're going to start
20:23
Speaker 2: to search. But presumably he had a cell phone on
20:26
Speaker 2: him somewhere too, and if that was on, it might
20:28
Speaker 2: be broadcasting his Bluetooth address, his Wi Fi address, and
20:33
Speaker 2: the cell phone towers might ing you know, you know
20:36
Speaker 2: who was in that area at the time. The ring
20:39
Speaker 2: cam was taken.
20:39
Speaker 6: Out crime stores with Nancy Gray.
20:54
Speaker 1: So let me understand Lee Newbacker guys joining us CEO
20:57
Speaker 1: in Enigma forensics, how these purchases can be trace and
21:01
Speaker 1: another thing that should be easily traceable. Well, nothing is
21:06
Speaker 1: easily traceable, but easier to trace. What about that hole
21:09
Speaker 1: st Look at the whole store he's wearing. Is that
21:13
Speaker 1: wrapped around his waist and then hanging down? Look at that?
21:17
Speaker 1: How could something like that be trice late Newbecker.
21:21
Speaker 2: Here's a way anyone could do it. You could your
21:23
Speaker 2: staff could do it. You could take a screenshot of that.
21:25
Speaker 2: You might have to edit to remove the glove. But
21:29
Speaker 2: if you have the size and you can establish dimensions
21:32
Speaker 2: by correlating to the brick size below, you can then
21:35
Speaker 2: do a Google image search and you can find anything
21:39
Speaker 2: that looks like it, and you might be able to
21:40
Speaker 2: find the same item, but the shoes are going to
21:42
Speaker 2: be the easiest one to match because the patterns on
21:45
Speaker 2: the bottom of shoes are fairly unique. Once you get
21:48
Speaker 2: the shoe, if you can correlate all the people in
21:51
Speaker 2: the area, presumably this person was local, not necessarily, but
21:56
Speaker 2: you got enough items there. If you get the backpack,
21:59
Speaker 2: you get the glove us or the hat looks fairly distinctive.
22:03
Speaker 2: The stitching around the eyes looks distinctive. You know, there's
22:07
Speaker 2: a number of items there, but searching for those items
22:10
Speaker 2: and finding a combination of them could like look right
22:15
Speaker 2: there at the center of the eyes, that's a very
22:17
Speaker 2: unique angle, and the stitching is fairly unique, so you know,
22:22
Speaker 2: identify it.
22:23
Speaker 1: Right, You're right, Newbecker. Is that a flashlight in his mouth?
22:29
Speaker 1: But I did not see him put anything in his mouth?
22:32
Speaker 1: Or is that some sort of reflective material? Let's look
22:35
Speaker 1: at him walking up again. Yeah, you know what I
22:39
Speaker 1: think you're hold on, hold on, back it up. Well, okay,
22:44
Speaker 1: I see it right there too. I saw it. Then
22:46
Speaker 1: it flashed on and off. I have a hat. I
22:50
Speaker 1: have a skull cat that I wear to all of
22:52
Speaker 1: my son's soccer games. And it has a flashlight built
22:55
Speaker 1: it to the front of it. So if he looks
22:58
Speaker 1: up in the stands he sees me, what is that.
23:02
Speaker 1: I did not see him place a flashlight in his mouth,
23:06
Speaker 1: but he could have done that, and he's using it
23:09
Speaker 1: to try and arrange the foliage. But Cheryl, what do
23:14
Speaker 1: you think it is?
23:15
Speaker 4: It could be a grill. You know, something that you
23:18
Speaker 4: place on your teeth that's gold or silver that maybe
23:20
Speaker 4: even has a diamond. It looks like something is reflecting
23:23
Speaker 4: off the light. If you look at the flowers, they're illuminated.
23:26
Speaker 1: Guys, take a look at this. There is the backpack
23:30
Speaker 1: shoulder strap close up with a reflective strip on it. Okay,
23:37
Speaker 1: back to you. What were you saying, Lee Newbecker about
23:41
Speaker 1: his eyes? I believe you and Chris were pointing out
23:45
Speaker 1: the glare in his eyes. What about it?
23:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were two shots. The last one that was
23:50
Speaker 2: held should that he was looking at the side. It's
23:53
Speaker 2: the camera. The next camera has a late to activates
23:56
Speaker 2: at night. At least some of the models do. The
23:58
Speaker 2: weight in his eyes when he's looking straight at the camera.
24:03
Speaker 2: The prior version showed right in the center of his eyes.
24:06
Speaker 2: It was light but it looks like he has something
24:09
Speaker 2: in his mouth. There there's a device called a bite
24:12
Speaker 2: a light. I sent a link to it. It's you
24:16
Speaker 2: put the flashlight in your mouth. You can tuck it
24:18
Speaker 2: inside your mouth. It's four bucks. You can bite with
24:21
Speaker 2: your teeth to turn it on or turn it off.
24:24
Speaker 2: And as you saw him lower his head, at one
24:26
Speaker 2: point the light was on, but his shirt started to
24:29
Speaker 2: light up as he lowered his head. So I'm pretty convinced.
24:33
Speaker 2: But as he lowers his head, the light's going down.
24:36
Speaker 2: Now up here, you'll notice the light will everything will
24:40
Speaker 2: illuminate more. As he looks at the camera, you can
24:43
Speaker 2: see the flashlight in his mouth. You can see his eyes.
24:45
Speaker 2: On the left of the picture, you can see both
24:47
Speaker 2: of his pupils. They're not lit up. It's lit up
24:50
Speaker 2: right below his nose. And he's got something emanating light
24:54
Speaker 2: coming from his mouth. You see that, Nancy, There you go.
24:56
Speaker 1: You see the zipper? Yes, catch Lee, you're right, hold it,
25:03
Speaker 1: hold it. Look look for there's the bright light to
25:06
Speaker 1: the left. Right below it is a zipper. And if
25:09
Speaker 1: you look up carefully, you do see his eyes. Oh
25:14
Speaker 1: my stars, Okay, Lee Neebecker brilliant brilliant. Okay, so what
25:22
Speaker 1: does that tell us? What have we learned? What about it?
25:26
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, what does this tell you?
25:28
Speaker 4: Again?
25:29
Speaker 1: He came prepared, Cheryl, You're right, So all of the
25:33
Speaker 1: chasing our tails about this being random is bs. So
25:36
Speaker 1: let's don't ever talk about that again. While we're looking
25:40
Speaker 1: at this, at these images, can you imagine Missus Guthrie
25:43
Speaker 1: waking up to this in her face that ski mask
25:47
Speaker 1: that Okay, I want to talk about the bugle swabs
25:51
Speaker 1: being taken right now, Dave mac who is getting swabbed.
25:55
Speaker 3: We know that Missus Guthrie has a lot of help
25:57
Speaker 3: around the house because she is living on her own.
25:59
Speaker 3: She is mentally very you know, she's perfect there. But
26:02
Speaker 3: I'm going to assume, based on an eighty four year
26:05
Speaker 3: old woman living on her own with physical medical issues,
26:11
Speaker 3: that there is help coming by to check on her.
26:16
Speaker 3: One thing, we do know she has a pool person
26:19
Speaker 3: that takes care of the swimming pool. We do know
26:21
Speaker 3: she has landscape yarding yard people who do the gardening
26:25
Speaker 3: and keep it trimmed up. We also know she has
26:28
Speaker 3: a housekeeper that comes by and cleans inside the house.
26:32
Speaker 3: So all of those people are considered just outside the
26:37
Speaker 3: inner circle e employees, people who show up every week
26:41
Speaker 3: on a regular basis and know that house and know
26:45
Speaker 3: all the inner workings of the house. Those are the
26:47
Speaker 3: people that are being utile swabbed this week right now.
26:50
Speaker 1: So in addition to the pool cleaner and the gardener
26:53
Speaker 1: other quote hired help. So I can't assume do you
26:58
Speaker 1: agree or disagreece you're almost that the family has already
27:02
Speaker 1: submitted to bugle swabs.
27:03
Speaker 4: I think so. I think a lot of people have
27:05
Speaker 4: voluntarily come forward. I don't think this is something that
27:08
Speaker 4: anybody's going to give them any trouble with. They want
27:11
Speaker 4: to clear this up. And again, if there was anybody
27:13
Speaker 4: that was hesitant, that would be a clue this.
27:17
Speaker 1: As we all are watching the clock, the purp stated,
27:23
Speaker 1: if the ransom not is to be believed that he
27:27
Speaker 1: and it is a male, likely a white male, would
27:31
Speaker 1: return Missus Guthrie twelve hours after the money was received.
27:36
Speaker 1: The money was received, we believe yesterday at five pm
27:42
Speaker 1: Mountain time. That means the purp has failed in the
27:50
Speaker 1: promise to deliver Missus Guthrie. And we've got to ask
27:52
Speaker 1: ourselves what incentive is left to hand her over. Now
27:58
Speaker 1: that we believe they've got the money, what about it, Kneebacker.
28:03
Speaker 2: I think that they're gonna this bital light that he
28:06
Speaker 2: appears to have in his mouth, which is separate from
28:10
Speaker 2: the nest camera light. Because you can see here there's
28:12
Speaker 2: a shadow under his chin. On the last shot, his
28:16
Speaker 2: eyes are illuminated. He's looking directly at the camera, and
28:21
Speaker 2: the white light in his eyes is centered and other
28:23
Speaker 2: shots you see it comes at an angle. So there's
28:27
Speaker 2: two light sources here. One light source is slightly.
28:31
Speaker 1: Overhead, you're right, and so because.
28:33
Speaker 2: Like this one there see the shadow under his chin.
28:38
Speaker 2: There's several things to notice here. The center of his
28:40
Speaker 2: peopil's he's centered up, looking directly at the nest camp.
28:44
Speaker 2: He's got what appears to be a bit of light
28:46
Speaker 2: in his mouth. You'll see when he's bending over he
28:49
Speaker 2: turns on the flashlight to find the grass that he grabs.
28:52
Speaker 2: But notice the shadow underneath his chin. Also, as he
28:56
Speaker 2: puts his hand forth, notice the glove. You can see
28:59
Speaker 2: there's a bright light or is coming from the front
29:02
Speaker 2: towards the camera. And as this progresses, you'll see when
29:05
Speaker 2: he's got the camera blocked, you can see that there's
29:08
Speaker 2: a light emitting from the camera. The fact that there's
29:11
Speaker 2: a shadow under his chin tells you that the camera
29:13
Speaker 2: is slightly higher than where his eyes are if that
29:16
Speaker 2: causes the shadow to gass.
29:18
Speaker 1: Does anyone detect a beard?
29:20
Speaker 5: I think he has chin hair, Nancy, he's shed. In
29:24
Speaker 5: that one photograph, you can see that he appears to
29:27
Speaker 5: be a darker shade there underneath his lip line. That
29:32
Speaker 5: could be indicative of facial hair. And then of course
29:35
Speaker 5: the mustache potentially above that. One other thing I think
29:40
Speaker 5: we're learning here is this gentleman is very, very comfortable
29:46
Speaker 5: doing what he's doing here. As Cheryl pointed out earlier,
29:50
Speaker 5: the fact that he's coming there, you know, with a
29:54
Speaker 5: kill kit potentially you know, within that bag, and we
29:57
Speaker 5: don't know that for sure, but that would be potentially logical.
30:01
Speaker 5: And the fact that he came with a gun tells
30:03
Speaker 5: us he is prepared to use deadly force whatever's necessary.
30:09
Speaker 5: And so one of the things I'm concerned about is
30:12
Speaker 5: we're not seeing any of that blood evidence in these
30:15
Speaker 5: photographs here or on this video, because we know that blood.
30:21
Speaker 1: Oh wouldn't the simple answer be that the blood was
30:24
Speaker 1: dropped when she was leaving so they wouldn't be on
30:26
Speaker 1: this video.
30:27
Speaker 5: Yes, but remember the debris that was dropped on that porch.
30:32
Speaker 5: Those photographs that we initially saw had the debris on
30:36
Speaker 5: top of the blood droplets. That look at the upper
30:39
Speaker 5: left hand corner the quadrant there where the debris is.
30:42
Speaker 5: Notice that one piece is over the top of the
30:46
Speaker 5: blood droplet. Okay, and those are ninety degree blood droplets,
30:50
Speaker 5: meaning they were straight down, but you'll see the debris
30:54
Speaker 5: is on top of them. So either he while bringing
30:58
Speaker 5: her out, had his own debris and she was bleeding
31:03
Speaker 5: and that would explain that, or you know, at some point,
31:08
Speaker 5: you know, how does this How does that debris get
31:11
Speaker 5: on top of the blood. That's the question I have.
31:13
Speaker 5: And what's concerning is is she being carried out because
31:19
Speaker 5: like the cherrol had mentioned, has she been bound you know,
31:23
Speaker 5: or something to that effect. What's going on, you know,
31:26
Speaker 5: because we know something happened inside that house where he
31:30
Speaker 5: injured her and she was ready or he was ready,
31:35
Speaker 5: you know, to do that evident of the fact that
31:37
Speaker 5: he walked in with the items that he did.
31:41
Speaker 1: Okay. I'm looking at the debris and what it is
31:44
Speaker 1: is gravel around her door and some of it got
31:48
Speaker 1: on top of the blood. I think one of the
31:50
Speaker 1: reasons she's bleeding is because she's on blood dinner. And
31:54
Speaker 1: I say that because if you look at the picture
31:56
Speaker 1: of her sitting in a lumb's chair, which we've shown
31:58
Speaker 1: over and over and over, you can see on her
32:01
Speaker 1: left hand, you can see where she's had bleeding just
32:05
Speaker 1: under the skin. Saw that on my dad on his hands,
32:09
Speaker 1: in his arms from the elbow down, over and over
32:13
Speaker 1: and over. That's what you get when you're on blood thinner,
32:18
Speaker 1: and you may even just barely bump your hand on
32:21
Speaker 1: something and that's what happens. So that tells me that
32:25
Speaker 1: she's on Eloquess or some other type of blood thinner,
32:28
Speaker 1: very common if you're on heart med's. It also keeps
32:32
Speaker 1: you from having a stroke. So anything could have made
32:37
Speaker 1: her start bleeding. On that front porch, I believe she's standing.
32:41
Speaker 1: You have low velocity blood droplets there, and if you
32:46
Speaker 1: look at the one furthest to the right, furthest to
32:50
Speaker 1: the right, you see a radiation, you see a radius
32:54
Speaker 1: of blood. She's standing still and she's dropping blood with blood.
33:01
Speaker 1: It's a blood within blood pattern and it looks like
33:04
Speaker 1: a nosebleed. Possibly where blood is dropping within blood. You
33:10
Speaker 1: don't see that she's being carried. You don't see smears,
33:13
Speaker 1: and I bet right there she needed assistant standing. And
33:19
Speaker 1: the gravel is all around the front door. Someone went
33:24
Speaker 1: to her left or she stepped into the gravel walking out.
33:29
Speaker 1: That's how I read it. What about it, Cheryl McCollum, I.
33:33
Speaker 4: See it a little different, Nancy. The blood drops, I agree,
33:37
Speaker 4: But if you look at what you're calling the blood
33:40
Speaker 4: drop and a blood drop, that's not what it looks
33:41
Speaker 4: like to me. That looks like medium, the high velocity.
33:44
Speaker 4: It's much further out than you would expect it to be.
33:47
Speaker 4: It doesn't have a pooling with a drop and a drop.
33:50
Speaker 4: If you look down toward the bottom, there is a
33:52
Speaker 4: clear transfer print. Those are the kind of things again,
33:57
Speaker 4: law enforcement should be captured, they should collected, they should
34:01
Speaker 4: have focused on. I agree with you. There's no drag marks.
34:05
Speaker 4: Nobody was pulled through that. But we know she has
34:09
Speaker 4: trouble walking. We know she's on blood dinner, So you've
34:12
Speaker 4: got to ask yourself, was she coughing? Was her handful
34:15
Speaker 4: of breads she touched down? Those are the kind of
34:18
Speaker 4: answers that I want to know about.
34:20
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm to me, a little more like more blood droplets.
34:23
Speaker 1: But you're right, blood droplets of her just standing there
34:28
Speaker 1: and continuing for blood to drop, likely out of her nose.
34:32
Speaker 1: So either way, what Cheryl was saying is correct. These
34:39
Speaker 1: patterns mean something, and the scene was left unsecured, people
34:46
Speaker 1: walked up and took pictures. Event that's where these pictures
34:49
Speaker 1: came from. Totally unacceptable for the crime scene to have
34:55
Speaker 1: been cleared with the blood still there. For Pete's sake,
35:01
Speaker 1: what else do we know at this hour, Dave.
35:03
Speaker 3: Mac But we know, Nancy, is that as the investigation continues,
35:08
Speaker 3: these pictures just being released. We know that the family
35:12
Speaker 3: that Savannah Guthrie has seen the pictures and they are
35:15
Speaker 3: asking people to come forward. Look at the pictures, look
35:18
Speaker 3: at the video. You know, if that's a loved one,
35:21
Speaker 3: that's a friend, if that is somebody you know, you
35:23
Speaker 3: can tell by the way the person is walking before
35:25
Speaker 3: they put their head down, they have a certain gait.
35:28
Speaker 3: Take a look at it. You can recognize the person
35:31
Speaker 3: actually knows when to slow down and stop a normal walk.
35:35
Speaker 3: You see it right there. And I'm telling you, Nancy,
35:38
Speaker 3: if that's your husband, that's your boyfriend, you know who
35:42
Speaker 3: that is, pick up the phone and call.
35:45
Speaker 1: Okay, here's the question until Lee Nubecker joining a cybersecurity
35:48
Speaker 1: digital forensic expert CEO Enigma Forensics. If they can pull
35:53
Speaker 1: a video from the door cam, what about the other
35:56
Speaker 1: cams like the one that was aimed down the driveway
35:58
Speaker 1: toward the street. Is there any more footage they can release?
36:02
Speaker 1: What do you think, Lee?
36:03
Speaker 2: Potentially there might be neighbors nearby that might have captured
36:07
Speaker 2: him getting out of a vehicle. I'd love to get
36:10
Speaker 2: this raw video, Nancy, because there's things I can do
36:12
Speaker 2: like color contrasting and other things that might reveal new
36:16
Speaker 2: clues no one's talking about.
36:18
Speaker 1: As we are all analyzing the most recent evidence, the
36:22
Speaker 1: most recent clues in the kidnapped the disappearance of eighty
36:25
Speaker 1: four year old Nancy Guthrie, Let's don't go down the
36:30
Speaker 1: evidentiary rabbit hole, because this isn't a show on dateline,
36:36
Speaker 1: this isn't a made for TV movie. This is real.
36:40
Speaker 7: Hi, there, everybody. I wanted to come on and just
36:47
Speaker 7: share a few thoughts as we enter into another week
36:54
Speaker 7: of this nightmare. I just want to say, first of all,
37:00
Speaker 7: thank you so much. For all of the prayers and
37:07
Speaker 7: the love that we have felt, my sister and brother
37:11
Speaker 7: and I, and that our mom has felt, because we
37:17
Speaker 7: believe that somehow, in some ways, she is feeling these
37:21
Speaker 7: prayers and that God is lifting her even in this
37:24
Speaker 7: moment and in the darkest place, we believe our mom
37:30
Speaker 7: is still out there.
37:34
Speaker 1: We need your help.
37:38
Speaker 7: Law enforcement is working tirelessly around the clock trying to
37:42
Speaker 7: bring her home, trying to find her. She was taken
37:46
Speaker 7: and we don't know where, and we need your help.
37:53
Speaker 7: So I'm coming on just to ask you, not just
37:56
Speaker 7: for your prayers, but no matter where you are, even
37:59
Speaker 7: if you're from Tucson, if you see anything, you hear anything,
38:04
Speaker 7: if there's anything at all that seems strange to you
38:09
Speaker 7: that you report to law enforcement. We are at an
38:15
Speaker 7: hour of desperation and we need drop.
38:22
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the case,
38:25
Speaker 1: please call one eight hundred two two five five three
38:30
Speaker 1: two four If you wish to remain anonymous five two
38:33
Speaker 1: zero eight eight two seven four six three. We wait
38:41
Speaker 1: as justice unfolds and our prayers go on for the
38:46
Speaker 1: Guthrie family. Nancy Grace signing off, good night, friend,