Latest / Your Hope-Filled Perspective with Dr. Michelle Bengtson podcast / How to Cultivate Joy Even on Difficult Days

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How to Cultivate Joy Even on Difficult Days · Your Hope-Filled Perspective with Dr. Michelle Bengtson podcast

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  Speaker 1: Life audio.
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  Speaker 2: In a world that pulls our attention towards stress, exhaustion,
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  Speaker 2: and discouragement, many of us wonder how to cultivate joy
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  Speaker 2: on the days when life feels overwhelmingly heavy. What if
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  Speaker 2: joy is not something we wait for, but something we
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  Speaker 2: intentionally build into our minds and our spirits even during
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  Speaker 2: the difficult seasons. This conversation explores how we can experience
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  Speaker 2: joy as a steady anchor rather than an unpredictable emotion,
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  Speaker 2: using both biblical truth and the latest neuroscience research to
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  Speaker 2: guide us. Welcome to your Hope field perspective, where it's
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  Speaker 2: always our goal to restore hope, renew minds, and empower
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  Speaker 2: listeners to live in your God given identity. I'm your host,
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  Speaker 2: doctor Michelle bankson Board, certified clinical neuropsychologist, author, speaker, and
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  Speaker 2: companion on this journey to emotional and spiritual wellness. Thank
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  Speaker 2: you for choosing to spend a few minutes of your week.
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  Speaker 1: With us today.
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  Speaker 2: We are going to talk about how to cultivate joy
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  Speaker 2: even on difficult days. We'll dive into that right after
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  Speaker 2: this brief word from our sponsor. Some days feel like
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  Speaker 2: a battle from the moment our feet hit the floor.
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  Speaker 2: Yet the Bible describes joy not as the absence of hardship,
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  Speaker 2: but as a powerful spiritual resource the strengthens us from
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  Speaker 2: the inside out. Today, I want to explore how to
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  Speaker 2: cultivate joy even when life feels heavy, and we will
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  Speaker 2: draw from both scripture and the science of the brain
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  Speaker 2: to uncover practical tools that help you experience God given
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  Speaker 2: joy that endures. Today, I'm joined by my friend and
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  Speaker 2: co host, Jessica v Rokel. We are talking about cultivating
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  Speaker 2: joy on difficult days, not the easy days, not the
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  Speaker 2: days when everything goes right. We are talking about the
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  Speaker 2: days when joy feels far away and our circumstances feel
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  Speaker 2: like they are sing in on every side. Glad to
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  Speaker 2: have you back for this conversation, jess.
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  Speaker 3: I am so glad to be here, and I think
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  Speaker 3: this is going to be a great topic to discuss.
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  Speaker 3: Scripture tells us in James Chapter one, verses two through four.
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  Speaker 3: Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you
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  Speaker 3: face trials of many kinds, because you know that the
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  Speaker 3: testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its
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  Speaker 3: work so that you may be mature and complete, not
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  Speaker 3: lacking anything. Michelle, I love that we're talking about this
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  Speaker 3: because so many listeners carry heavy burdens. Some carry ongoing
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  Speaker 3: health battles, some shoulder caregiving responsibilities. Some face financial tension
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  Speaker 3: or relational heartbreak when life gets hard. The idea of
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  Speaker 3: joy can feel unrealistic or even impossible. But God never
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  Speaker 3: intended joy to be reserved only for ideal circumstances.
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  Speaker 1: Oh.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely, But I think in our humanness, yes, joy is
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  Speaker 2: one of those concepts that can be difficult to grasp.
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  Speaker 2: Out of that scripture, we're called to count it all joy,
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  Speaker 2: and yet what about when our situations aren't joyful?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: So, I think one of the first things we need
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  Speaker 2: to understand is that joy and happiness are not the same.
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  Speaker 2: We equate joy with the feeling of happiness, but happiness
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  Speaker 2: really depends on what happens around us, whereas joy depends
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  Speaker 2: on the unchanging character of God within us. Yes, I
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  Speaker 2: recall that joy is a fruit of the spirit, and
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  Speaker 2: that means there is something God grows in us as
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  Speaker 2: we draw close to him. The interesting thing is that
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  Speaker 2: science actually supports this truth. Research on emotional resilience shows
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  Speaker 2: that people who anchor their identity and worth in stable
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  Speaker 2: truths rather than in shifting circumstances. This has actually experience
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  Speaker 2: greater long term well being.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, and there is a fascinating study from the University
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  Speaker 3: of California that found that when individuals intentionally practice gratitude,
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  Speaker 3: the brain begins strengthening the pathways in the prefrontal cortex.
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  Speaker 3: That's the region of the brain that's responsible for emotional
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  Speaker 3: regulation and perspective. In other words, when we intentionally focus
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  Speaker 3: on what is true and life giving, the brain becomes
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  Speaker 3: better at recognizing hope even in hard situations. This is
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  Speaker 3: science affirming what scripture has declared for thousands of years,
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  Speaker 3: and it's exciting.
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  Speaker 2: Oh now you are talking my language, and I love
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  Speaker 2: it when science starts to confirm.
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  Speaker 1: What God had already told us.
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  Speaker 2: That reminds me of Isaiah twenty six to three, which
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  Speaker 2: says God will keep in perfect peace those whose minds
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  Speaker 2: are stayed in Him because they trust him. Neuroscience actually
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  Speaker 2: demonstrates that where we consistently direct our attention rewires the brain.
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  Speaker 2: My audience has heard me say many times, what we
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  Speaker 2: focus on grows. That's what I'm talking about here. Scripture
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  Speaker 2: actually calls it fixing our mind on him. Whereas science
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  Speaker 2: calls it neuroplasticity, but basically both point to the same truth.
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  Speaker 2: We can train our minds to recognize God's presence and
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  Speaker 2: goodness even on difficult days. So let's talk about why
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  Speaker 2: does joy feel so hard on difficult days?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I really think at this point that it's really
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  Speaker 3: important to acknowledge what you've taught me over time, and
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  Speaker 3: that is this that difficult days activate the brain's threat system. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: when we face stress or uncertainty, the amygdala lights up
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  Speaker 3: like an alarm and it says a message that says
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  Speaker 3: something is wrong. Pay attention. And that's why even small
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  Speaker 3: frustrations can feel heavy when the brain is already overloaded.
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  Speaker 2: And really, Jess, most people don't even realize that chronic
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  Speaker 2: stress suppresses the part of the brain responsible for joy connection, creativity,
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  Speaker 2: and problem solving. And when that stress response stays on,
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  Speaker 2: the brain gives more attention to what feels dangerous or negative.
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  Speaker 2: But the beautiful part is that God did not create
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  Speaker 2: the stress response to be a lifestyle. He created it
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  Speaker 2: as a protective mechanism and scripture, as you know, as
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  Speaker 2: we've talked about many times on this podcast, scripture repeatedly
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  Speaker 2: invites us to rest, to trust, to cast our cares
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  Speaker 2: on him because he knows we weren't designed to care
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  Speaker 2: everything alone.
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  Speaker 3: And I find so much comfort in that. The Psalms
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  Speaker 3: are probably one of my favorite books. I spend time
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  Speaker 3: in the Psalms four to five times a week, and
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  Speaker 3: Psalm chapter ninety four, verses eighteen and nineteen says this.
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  Speaker 3: When I said my foot is slipping, your unfailing love,
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  Speaker 3: Lord supported me when anxiety was great within me, Your
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  Speaker 3: consolation brought me joy. God knows exactly how to meet
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  Speaker 3: us in our anxious places and bring comfort that revives joy. Friends,
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  Speaker 3: we're going to take a brief break for our word
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  Speaker 3: from our sponsor. When we return, we'll turn our attention
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  Speaker 3: to what scripture says about cultivating joy.
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  Speaker 2: I want to turn our attention to what scripture says
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  Speaker 2: about cultivating joy. One of my favorite passages about joy
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  Speaker 2: is Zephaniah three seventeen, and it says, the Lord, your
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  Speaker 2: God is with you.
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  Speaker 1: He is my to save.
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  Speaker 2: He takes great delight in you, and he rejoices over
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  Speaker 2: you with singing. Oh, just think about that for a moment.
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  Speaker 2: Nobody else has ever sung over me, and others have
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  Speaker 2: enjoyed my presence, but I wouldn't go so far as
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  Speaker 2: to say they take great delight. But the God who
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  Speaker 2: created us rejoices over us. If that doesn't breathe joy
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  Speaker 2: into the darkest places, I'm not sure what will.
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  Speaker 3: I really love that you brought up that verse, because
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  Speaker 3: I've used that passage to comfort me, and I have
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  Speaker 3: felt like I'm failing when I'm not wanted, when i
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  Speaker 3: feel like I'm drowning in anxiety about fear of rejection
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  Speaker 3: and abandonment and insecurity, and the fact that God delights
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  Speaker 3: in us and rejoices over us brings such comfort to
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  Speaker 3: me Personally. One is Romans fifteen thirteen, which says, may
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  Speaker 3: the God of Hope fill you with all joy and
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  Speaker 3: peace as you trust in him. This verse reveals something
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  Speaker 3: really powerful. Joy increases as trust increases. Joy is not
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  Speaker 3: built on our feelings. Joy is not built on evidence.
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  Speaker 3: Joy is built on our confidence that God is in
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  Speaker 3: control even when our life is chaotic and out of control.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's important to highlight that both the verse
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  Speaker 2: that you just shared and the verse that I shared
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  Speaker 2: really draws a connection between how much we trust God
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  Speaker 2: in our experience of joy. Yes, and then there's Habacic three,
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  Speaker 2: verse seventeen through nineteen, which is such a raw and
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  Speaker 2: honest passage.
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  Speaker 1: It basically says.
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  Speaker 2: If everything falls apart, even if there's no fruit crops,
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  Speaker 2: no herds will still rejoice.
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  Speaker 1: In the Lord.
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  Speaker 2: That's not denial, it's defiant faith, a faith that says
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  Speaker 2: circumstances do not get to determine the presence of joy.
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  Speaker 1: God does.
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  Speaker 2: But in that passage, the writer made a connection between
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  Speaker 2: intentionally choosing to rejoice the Lord even when he might
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  Speaker 2: not have felt like it.
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  Speaker 1: And I think.
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  Speaker 2: That's important for us to remember, because I don't know
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  Speaker 2: about you just but for me, sometimes when my circumstances
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  Speaker 2: are really difficult, I don't feel like I want to rejoice.
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  Speaker 2: I don't feel like praising God for my situation. It
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  Speaker 2: is not calling me to praise God for my situation.
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  Speaker 2: That's calling me to rejoice in the Lord, not the situation.
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  Speaker 3: Such an important distinction. We rejoice in our God, yeah,
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  Speaker 3: not in what's happening around us.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think that's really key.
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  Speaker 2: We trust God, and joy is a byproduct, and.
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  Speaker 1: We choose to rejoice in God, not our circumstances. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: And joy is a byproduct.
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  Speaker 2: Both of those, though, require that we do something, and
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  Speaker 2: I think that's a hard part because we tend to
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  Speaker 2: equate joy with happiness, and happiness is a result of
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  Speaker 2: our circumstances, like we mentioned, but joy is our outcome
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  Speaker 2: of our intentional choices despite the circumstances. Yes, the fun
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  Speaker 2: thing for me is that there are neuroscience insights that
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  Speaker 2: support scripture. God breathed every word of the Bible for us,
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  Speaker 2: and it's just only recently that neuroscience is starting to
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  Speaker 2: catch up. But what encourages me is that brain science
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  Speaker 2: actually supports God's defy design for joy. Studies have shown
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  Speaker 2: that experiencing joy activates the brain's reward pathways, and it
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  Speaker 2: increases the release of neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin, the
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  Speaker 2: feel good chemicals. These chemicals help lift mood, improve focus,
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  Speaker 2: and strengthen resilience.
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  Speaker 1: That is so good to know.
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  Speaker 3: Honestly, it's I love that science is backing is proving
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  Speaker 3: that scripture is true.
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  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's so great.
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  Speaker 3: And even small intentional practices can stimulate these pathways, things
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  Speaker 3: like recalling God's faithfulness, practicing gratitude, engaging in worship, stepping
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  Speaker 3: outside for fresh air or connecting with trusted people. These
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  Speaker 3: simple actions send signals to the brain that counteract the
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  Speaker 3: stress response and then opens the door to joy.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, there's a study from Duke University that found
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  Speaker 2: that worship is not just listening to music, but actively
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  Speaker 2: engaging with God in worship reduces activities in the brain
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  Speaker 2: that are associated with worry. It's almost as if the
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  Speaker 2: brain breathes easier when we spend time in the presence
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  Speaker 2: of God.
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  Speaker 3: All Right, you've just inspired me to play worship music
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  Speaker 3: as I drive to the office later today, because I
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  Speaker 3: love that so much. As a worship leader, I'm always
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  Speaker 3: encouraging the people in my church to engage with God
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  Speaker 3: in music Monday through Saturday, not just on Sunday. And
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  Speaker 3: the fact that brain science is reinforcing why Scripture calls
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  Speaker 3: us to rejoice in the Lord, that joy was always
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  Speaker 3: meant to be anchored in a relationship with Him.
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  Speaker 2: There have been times when I've been in the hospital
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  Speaker 2: and I have played praise and worship music in my
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  Speaker 2: room twenty four to seven, and without fail, staff have
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  Speaker 2: come into my room and then wanted to come back
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  Speaker 2: into my room and have said things like I don't
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  Speaker 2: know what it is.
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  Speaker 1: It just feels so peaceful in here.
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  Speaker 2: I knew what it was because I know the power
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  Speaker 2: of praise and worship and what it does to our brain. Friends,
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  Speaker 2: we will continue our conversation, turning to practical ways to
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  Speaker 2: cultivate joy even on difficult days, right after this brief
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  Speaker 2: word from our sponsor. Okay, so, Jess, we've talked about
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  Speaker 2: what joy is. We've talked about scriptures that reinforce the
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  Speaker 2: importance of trusting God, of resting, of choosing to rejoice
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  Speaker 2: in Him, and we've even talked about what happens in
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  Speaker 2: the brain. So let's get real practical and talk about
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  Speaker 2: ways to cultivate joy on difficult days. What are some
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  Speaker 2: simple things that you think listeners can do to cultivate
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  Speaker 2: joy even on the hard days.
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  Speaker 3: I think the first is scripture, meditation, taking slow, deep breaths,
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  Speaker 3: spending five minutes of reading a verse and then letting
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  Speaker 3: it settle, letting it absorb into your consciousness and your brain.
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  Speaker 3: Research shows that slow rhythmic breathing activates the parasympathetic nervous system,
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  Speaker 3: which calms the brain. It makes the mind more receptive
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  Speaker 3: to truth. So imagine starting your quiet time with slow,
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  Speaker 3: deep breaths and just settling with one verse before you
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  Speaker 3: begin the rest of your quiet time.
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  Speaker 2: And I find that frequently when I do that, that
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  Speaker 2: verse keeps coming up in my mind throughout the day.
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  Speaker 2: So we can continue to meditate on it. We can
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  Speaker 2: continue to get it from our head to our heart
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  Speaker 2: if you will so good. Another practical tool is to
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  Speaker 2: practice attention training. This basically means choosing to look for
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  Speaker 2: evidence of God's presence in your day, noticing his privision
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  Speaker 2: in small ways.
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  Speaker 3: You know.
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  Speaker 2: It can be things like I notice a rock on
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  Speaker 2: my walk that kind of looks like the shape of
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  Speaker 2: a heart. Or it can be noticing how the leaves
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  Speaker 2: on the trees are budding out and they will soon
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  Speaker 2: go from having little buds and flowers to being fully
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  Speaker 2: leaped out. That's looking and seeing God's presence at work.
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  Speaker 2: But I don't want to be confusing. This is not
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  Speaker 2: about toxic positivity. This is not trying to manifest what
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  Speaker 2: you want to happen. But it is intentional spiritual attentiveness.
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  Speaker 2: And I have found for myself that the more I
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  Speaker 2: intentionally look for God's presence, the more that joy grows.
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  Speaker 3: So we're really These first two recommendations are about paying
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  Speaker 3: attention right, Well, I'm going to add a third one.
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  Speaker 3: I also recommend a practice called joy stacking. This is
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  Speaker 3: where you intentionally add the small moments of delight throughout
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  Speaker 3: your day. Maybe it's a warm cup of tea. Maybe
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  Speaker 3: it's that one worship song that's been playing on repeat
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  Speaker 3: in your mind. Maybe it's a two minute stretch break
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  Speaker 3: in the sunlight, or it's a two minute curl up
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  Speaker 3: time in a patch of sunlight on your sofa or
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  Speaker 3: your rug. These small joys accumulate and create momentum.
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  Speaker 2: But again that requires intentionality. One of my favorite ways
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  Speaker 2: is to recall past evidence of God's faithfulness because Jessica,
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  Speaker 2: I've got a pretty short memory and on difficult days,
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  Speaker 2: sometimes it's really hard to remember what God has done
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  Speaker 2: for me. But if I will take the time to
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  Speaker 2: sit down and ask the Holy Spirit to bring to
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  Speaker 2: my memoris times when God has been faithful, that helps
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  Speaker 2: up the joy quotient. Your brain does not distinguish between
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  Speaker 2: remember bring a blessing and experiencing it afresh. So remembering
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  Speaker 2: God's faithfulness literally reactivates joy pathways, as if you're experiencing
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  Speaker 2: that circumstance right.
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  Speaker 3: Now, Wow, that's amazing. But what about when joy still
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  Speaker 3: feels out of reach? Like we've applied these practical steps
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  Speaker 3: and joy still seems like this impossible finish line, So
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  Speaker 3: we want to take a moment to acknowledge something important.
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  Speaker 3: Sometimes people do all the right things and joy still
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  Speaker 3: feels unreachable. This doesn't mean failure. It means you're human.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yes, And it's often in those seasons that God
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  Speaker 2: carries us most tenderly. So if you are walking through grief, trauma, depression,
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  Speaker 2: or some other kind of overwhelming circumstances, please don't put
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  Speaker 2: pressure on yourself to feel joy. I don't think we
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  Speaker 2: can manufacture it. There's a saying that goes fake it
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  Speaker 2: until you make it. That is not what we're talking about.
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  Speaker 1: But we are.
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  Speaker 2: Instead talking about practicing gentle presence with God. Invite him
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  Speaker 2: into your pain, Choose to rejoice for who He is,
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  Speaker 2: not what you're going through. And joy may begin as
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  Speaker 2: a flicker, not a blaze. But that's where Jessica's suggestion
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  Speaker 2: of joy stacking I think can be helpful, because frequently
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  Speaker 2: joy does start as a flicker, and as we stack
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  Speaker 2: those experiences on top of each other. We start to
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  Speaker 2: then see more for which we can experience joy.
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  Speaker 3: So joy also grows best in honesty, not pretending. Like
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  Speaker 3: Michelle said, you can't manufacture joy, you can't drum it
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  Speaker 3: up in your own strength. Even Jesus said in this
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  Speaker 3: world that you will have trouble to take heart because
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  Speaker 3: he has overcome the world and bring our hearts to
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  Speaker 3: him and still trust him to restore joy in time.
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  Speaker 2: Friend, if you are struggling today, we want you to
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  Speaker 2: know that joy is not out of reach. Difficult days
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  Speaker 2: do not disqualify you, and hard seasons do not eliminate
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  Speaker 2: your capacity for joy. God is with you, He sings
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  Speaker 2: over you, He strengthens you, and he delights in restoring
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  Speaker 2: joy to his children. But as Jessica and I talked
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  Speaker 2: about today, we have a part to play. But I
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  Speaker 2: also want you to know that God is not disappointed
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  Speaker 2: in you for struggling. He understands you, and he walks
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  Speaker 2: beside you with compassion. Jess I'm so grateful for this
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  Speaker 2: conversation today, and I want to put those action steps
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  Speaker 2: into play more frequently. But I'm thinking about the listener
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  Speaker 2: reviewer who might be resonating with our conversation.
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  Speaker 1: What hopefield perspective do you want to leave them with?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I would like to encourage you to start where
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  Speaker 3: you are. Start today. Yesterday is gone, last week you
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  Speaker 3: can't do anything about. But today, in this moment, you can.
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  Speaker 3: So wherever you are, whatever you're seeing. I want you
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  Speaker 3: to picture Jesus the good Shepherd beside you, whispering encouragement,
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  Speaker 3: and to know that as you take the next step,
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  Speaker 3: as you strive to be faithful, as you choose one
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  Speaker 3: of the practical tips, to know that God will help you.
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  Speaker 3: It just starts with a heart that says, God, I
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  Speaker 3: need you, I want your joy. Fill me with your joy.
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  Speaker 2: I want to pray over you, Father. I lift up
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  Speaker 2: every listener who's carrying a heavy burden. Remind them that
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  Speaker 2: you are their strength and their song. Renew their minds,
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  Speaker 2: restore their joy, help them to sense your presence and
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  Speaker 2: to remember your faithfulness. Grow within them, Lord, a joy
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  Speaker 2: that cannot be shaken, no matter what the circumstances are
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  Speaker 2: that they face.
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  Speaker 1: I thank you that you are capable.
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  Speaker 2: I thank you that you love us beyond our comprehension,
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  Speaker 2: and that you can do this mighty work in and
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  Speaker 2: through each and every listener and viewer Because of and
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: in the name of Jesus, I pray, Amen.
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  Speaker 3: Amen, thank you so much for being with us today.
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  Speaker 3: We pray that this conversation gives you the courage to
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  Speaker 3: seek joy even on your most difficult days. If you
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: know someone struggling to hold on to joy, we invite
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: you to share this episode to offer them a biblically
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: hope filled perspective to encourage their heart.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Friends.
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  Speaker 2: I look forward to being with you again next week
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: to share another biblically based hope field perspective. But until then,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: you know it's my prayer for you that you would
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: have a hope filled week.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: See using.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: It is now known a depression is our greatest epidemic worldwide.
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  Speaker 4: It is greater than heart disease, cancer, and AIDS all
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  Speaker 4: put together. Unfortunately, there is a scarcity of biblically based
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: resources which identify the spiritual component that will help individuals
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: cope with depression, or resources for their loved ones who
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: are trying to support them. During doctor Bankson's thirty year career,
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: she has treated thousands of individuals with depression and has
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: also suffered with it herself. Because of her suffering, she
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: has come to understand the compelling need to address the
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: spiritual dimension of depression along with the physiological and emotional components.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: In her award winning book, Hope Prevails, Insights from a
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: doctor's personal journey through depression, she shares with thus her experiences.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: She combines her decades of professional expertise and mental health
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: with her personal insights to help you overcome depression. Scrip
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: Jance Sylvius, author of fool Proof in Your Life and
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: Same Life News Story, said this about doctor Bankson in
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: her award winning book Hope Prevails Insights from a doctor's
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: personal journey of th your depression. It is a unique
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: position to be both the doctor and the depressed patient.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Those dual experiences offer rare insight into the nuances of
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: a very difficult journey. Doctor Michelle Bankson has written a wonderful,
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: hope filled book for those who suffer from depression and
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: for those who love them. Because she's been in the
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: place of the patient, her compassion abounds. Because she has
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: been in the place of the doctor, her knowledge is
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: spot on. Because she is a lover of God. Her
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: book offers practical spiritual hope for anyone who is searching
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: I encourage you to read it. It will make you
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: better no matter your situation. Hope Prevails is available at
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: Amazon dot com, in other fine online book retailers, or
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: through her website at doctor michelleb dot com. Obtain your
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: copy today and begin your healing from depression. Thank you
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: for joining doctor banks and to your hope build perspective.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: We hope you are encouraged by her authenticity, vulnerability, and
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: biblical truths. If you enjoy today's conversation. When you take
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: a moment right now, open up your podcast app and
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: look for the subscribe button right next to our podcast
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: profile image. We think this podcast is best enjoyed with friends,
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: so tell a friend and click share in your podcast
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: app and send a friend or link to share Hope
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: with them. If you have a comment, question, or suggest
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: a topic for a future show, reach out to our
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: staff at info at Hope Prevails dot org for additional resources,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: information about doctor Bankson's books or free downloads, or to
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: contact her to speak at your next event. Please visit
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: doctor michelb dot com. Until next time, May you have
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: a hope filled week.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I'd like to take just a second to thank the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: team at Life Audio for their partnership with us on
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: this podcast. If you go to lifeaudio dot com, you'll
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: find dozens of other faith centered podcasts in their network.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: They've got shows about prayer, Bible study, parenting, and more.