Latest / The ACL Athlete Podcast / 068 | Kelsey Griffith - Mental Skills Specialist and Fellow ACL Athlete - Part 2

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068 | Kelsey Griffith - Mental Skills Specialist and Fellow ACL Athlete - Part 2 · The ACL Athlete Podcast

• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome everyone to the ACL Athlete Podcast.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is the podcast where we talk about everything related to the ACL, whether that's the injury itself, the rehab process, return to sport, and more.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Robbie Patel, performance physical therapist and coach.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Between myself and fellow guests and experts, you'll learn through the lens of the patient, the healthcare professional, and the coach.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: The goal of this podcast is to equip you, the athlete, with the education to make the best informed decision about your care and your ACL journey.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive into today's episode.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back, ACL athletes.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are covering part two of this two-part interview series with Kelsey Griffith, a mental performance coach.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something that we are so excited to dive into.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you have not listened to part one, go do yourself a favor, go listen to part one, and then that way you can get set up for this part two incredible episode.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, sit back and enjoy the episode.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about like this return to sport or return to activity or whatever goal that an athlete has set of like, okay, this is the end, like the end point.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: But then what can be tough is that if like you said, we hit a setback or we have some sort of uh thing that happens in the ACL process that it can really derail things and then it almost feels like it's so far out of reach, right?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things that we will try to use with our athletes is this A B Z framework.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's uh essentially trying to use these little point-by-point systems.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So A is essentially where the athlete is, right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So where they currently are.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Z is that end goal of what they want to be at.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we set that as the end, and that's what we're working towards.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but then we have a B.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: The B is the next small step.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so you need to forget about the Z.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's your big you know, mountaintop, if you will, or the hill that you want to be on.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to forget about that and then have really good tangible goals for whatever that B is.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you get to B, you set another B or you set a Z or sorry, a C and start to work towards that Z.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully, like you are taking those small steps towards that and not getting too caught up in this whole big picture thing, because it can be really challenging in this process because it's so long.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of uh it's comparable to how I describe it to athletes.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I call the end goal like the beacon, right?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the lighthouse that you see, and you're like, I want to get there.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: But if you get into the ocean in a boat and you don't have the paddles, like you can't that that beacon can shine as bright as it wants as it wants to, but if you don't have the steps to get there, you're reaching for this thing that isn't attainable in that moment.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So to keep the beacon there, to keep it shining, but to know very concretely what you need to do, what are actionable items that you can do each and every day to get closer to that beacon.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you got the paddles, like have your GPS, whatever the case may be, know what those steps are and like commit to them, you know, to say goals.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Usually when I work on goal setting with athletes, which is a big part of my job, yeah, they usually roll their eyes at me.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's because like they learn about goal setting sporadically in school, and like it's not, I don't know that it's always done as effectively as it can be, you know.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they talk about it and they might do it once, then a lot of times they never come back to the goal.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like set your goal for the number of books you want to read this year, and they do, and then like the end of the year comes and it's never revisited, and that then of course goals don't feel you're like, why am I gonna take the time to do that if like I'm never gonna come back to it?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why yeah, that's a waste of time, you know?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: So to help athletes recognize the difference between those outcome goals, between those performance goals, process goals, and I think with ACL in particular, the process is the thing that matters.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: If an athlete says to me, like, all right, I want to get back to sport, I'm gonna back them down and say, Okay, what do you need to do to do that?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna say, Well, I need to get stronger, I need to get faster, I need to get more range of motion.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I joke, I'm I'm an annoying English teacher.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always going to ask you how or why, and I'm gonna make you give me the details.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you need to get faster, how are you gonna do that?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: You need to get stronger, how are you going to do that?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because each of those breakdowns give you something you can feel good when you do.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good breeds good.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: So when an athlete sets a goal and achieves it, they're like, oh, okay, like I did that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: That was what I wanted to do.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I set out to do it, I had a game plan and I got there.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like one little piece that they're like, all right, I'm gonna try that again, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And each goal gets a little bit bigger because you're getting, you are, you're getting closer to the beacon, and then it shines brighter.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, okay, like this, this is working.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm gonna keep keep these small steps, which I love.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I think is Herm Edwards, it's a cheesy, but it's very true.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a goal without a plan is just a wish, right?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it's one of these things where like, you know, we do talk a lot about goal setting, and with any, I'm sure with any of your athletes, athletes I work with, like, that's the number one thing we talk about because we got to set our sights on something.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's like, okay, what is the game plan to get there?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's gonna be really important.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna take two parts here.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be very much on the athletes' part to be able to, you know, talk about this, to actually think about this in detail, and then also with the professional that you're working with, hopefully to help, you know, create that GPS system to help guide you there.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so with the professionals that you're working with, any ACL athletes out there, ask them what is the next step, like you know, to be able to like make this a bit more tangible, whether you're going through your physical therapy or there's other pieces with this.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that way it doesn't feel like okay, you're waiting till three months or six months.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: As we had already talked about, time is a bit arbitrary and it can almost play against you.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I personally do not like time in the ACL rehab process because every person is so different.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't account for all those differences, whether it's setbacks or just the context of the human being themselves.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so being able to set our sights on things that are more tangible, like maybe range of motion or a certain level of strength, or you know, being able to do X, Y, and Z that's outside of time can be so beneficial.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And being able to get that from professionals you're potentially working with will be helpful as well.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I love that, Robbie.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really important as an athlete.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, those of you listening, it's okay to ask the professionals you're working with to help you do those things, right?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because I can tell you all, many friends who are PT, RPTs, I've been in PT for probably the last 20 years of my life in some capacity, they're setting goals all the time, right?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because they have to.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And my thing is, why shouldn't you be a part of that process, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like the more the athlete can feel involved in setting those goals, the more control they can have in something that is very much out of their control.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds probably like, you know, we've talked about all of this.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you, you are doing those things, and that's so helpful.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of times I'll work with an athlete and I'll say, like, do you know what you're working towards at PT?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: They have no idea.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, I'm doing glute bridges every day, more glute bridges than I ever thought I'd do in my whole life.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: But like, they don't necessarily know why.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And to understand the why is also huge.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as a soccer player, when you're like, Why have I done glute bridges for the last 42 weeks of my life?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And when a physical therapist can say, you know, this is what X exercise is targeting, when you're in soccer and you do X, Y, or Z, that's where that strength and foundation and stability is going to help you actually play better.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's incredibly motivating, right?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of just I'm broken and so I'm getting better.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's all right, here's how that again, how this can help me become more than I was before I got hurt.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is that benefit.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: When you get hurt, you start the weaknesses are unveiled, right?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know, like, okay, like hamstring strength wasn't what I needed, you know, X, Y, or Z.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so like, take the opportunity and build back and feel stronger and feel more ready so that when you do get out there, you're like, oh, I feel good.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: I am faster.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't have pain in X when I run anymore.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't even realize that was a problem.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's being a part of that process in PT that understanding the transferability of skills and strength gains, I think is so crucial.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, be being involved in the process, and one of the things that can even be helpful is having feedback loops.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So these are something where you kind of circle back to things to be able to kind of check and assess.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So what I will do with some of my athletes is you know, we'll have check-ins where are you on track for your goals?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do is there any way to um is there anything you need help with in terms of getting there, or do we need to re-evaluate where you're at based on how things are going?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what's going to be really important in order to get to that next step and get closer towards like that beacon that you said, or the end goal.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so sometimes that has to be the initiative has to be on you to be able to work on those goals and to make sure that those are at the forefront to keep you motivated in this process.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, one thing I do want to ask you about is what advice or strategies do you have for a setback?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So setbacks happen all the time, and we talked a little bit about this, but it's the thing that can get really tough with this process is that you know they go to good example, is they go to run and then all of a sudden their knee kind of swells up.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so then that feels that's a setback.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so what do we do in that situation, especially from the mental side of things, to handle these?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's usually multiple ones during this journey.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's a great question.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: This speaks to well, speaks to a lot of things.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: The two things I'm gonna touch on.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: One, I think goes back to that idea of comparison to others or even to your past self, right?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not going to go from zero to 100 for you or for anyone.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And comparing to what you could do only takes away from what you can do right then.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I talk a lot about like your best is enough in that moment, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: We know the challenge as humans is we know what we're capable of, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: We know what our like ultimate best is.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's running without a blown up me, like you're like, that's what I want to be doing right now.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: But in that right now, it might not be possible.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the more we fight it, the more frustrated we get, the more kind of hyper-focused we are on it, the harder it's going to be to get there.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Similarly, the more we focus on, well, so and so started running and they didn't have a problem.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's so-and-so's best, right?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like you literally can't control that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and as normal as comparison is, like I always give the example, I step outside and someone walks by me, my brain instantly goes, that person's taller than me, right?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Comparison is how we organize our world.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: But when we compare from a better or worse sort of place, it's just energy sucking.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So something to keep in mind, I think, is like, what are you comparing to?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because in essence, like you've never been in that moment.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: You've never had to try that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess if you've had multiple tears, perhaps you have, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: But like in actuality, you've literally never been in that moment, even if it's your second time doing it, it's still a different moment.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So say, okay, this is my best for today.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I got 10 seconds in and it didn't feel good.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna step back a little bit, right?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Rebuild, start small and feel good.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: You probably have said this 12,000 times, but it's true, feel good about the small wins.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: 10 seconds is better than zero seconds, right?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I would encourage athletes to do from the get-go, self-talk.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So developing self-talk statements based on your own experience with my ACL athletes, a lot of what I do is we'll take moments of overcoming adversity in their past.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: So whether it's another injury, whether it's sports specific, it doesn't matter.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: But what I want to do with athletes is help them develop phrasing that they can believe in.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because in that setback moment, when your knee blows up and you can't run, you have to back it down a little bit.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can isn't gonna feel super believable because the argument is gonna be like, well, I actually didn't.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I could, I tried, and I didn't.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: However, if you have phrasing, I call them like your pocket phrases, have them at the ready.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: If you have something like, I can do hard things, that's believable.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because chances are, if you're already at the point of running, you've overcome a whole lot of stuff along the way.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And even if it was hard, you did it.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or something like, I will keep fighting.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like that kind of acceptance piece of like, this sucks right now.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really pissed.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not what I intended for the day, but I can get caught in those feelings and resist them and feel angry about it.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's only gonna get harder to overcome that.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or I can say, Yeah, I'm pissed.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sucks.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Not what I wanted today, but tomorrow's a new day and I will keep fighting, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I think again, puppies and rainbows, not what I talk about.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important to be able to acknowledge both sides of it, to say, to tell an ACL athlete, like, but it's gonna be fine.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: In that moment, they don't feel that way.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because in that moment, all they wanted to do was run.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna be the first to say to an athlete, when a setback hits, let yourself be upset by it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you pretend you're not bothered by it, and some may not be, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's not a one size fits all situation.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you pretend you're not bothered by the setback, like then at some point it's just gonna rear its head and it's probably gonna come at you even harder.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So acknowledge it, accept it, and redirect with those self-talk statements, those pocket statements that have meaning to you and weight to you based on your own experience.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the even the you know, the idea of finding something where you had overcome adversity.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because in that moment, you might just be like, you know, this sucks.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And like you had mentioned, that's okay to do that and have the space to do that, but to be able to reach into your own past experiences of times where you have dealt with adversity and to be able to know that you came out of it better on the other side, right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's sometimes hard to be able to just be like, oh, I can do this, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but the self-talk stuff is so important, and I'll never forget watching uh who was it?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was one of the USA gymnasts, it it kind of passed around, but she was about to go on, and uh, I think it was Simone Bowels, it might have been someone else, but uh they went on, and you're like talking about at the elite level, right before she stepped onto the balance beam, she said, I got this.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And she crushed it and she got the gold medal for it.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of these things where you're just like, if these Olympians who are like literally doing this day in, day out are talking to themselves like this, these are strategies where we can utilize in our daily lives to be able to make sure that we don't let these things in, or if they do, that they go quick and that we redirect with positive self-talk.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's so great.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I actually just recently saw on Instagram Sumi Lee.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: So she's competing in as a gymnast at Auburn.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a letter.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: She had written a letter to herself before she competed, and it's awesome because I do that, I do a lot of like text messages with my clients.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, before you walk into PT, what are the reminders you need?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Give yourself that pep talk.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, okay.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And when I saw this letter she had written, I was like, this is so awesome.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, you got this, you know, your best is enough today, your expectations, your expectations only, all you can do is all you can do, or you know, something along those lines.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wow, to see, like you said, these athletes who I think, you know, we start to see these elite level performers and assume like, well, their mental game must be totally in check.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And they have to keep it in check.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's an active choice to say, like, I'm going into X situation already mentally and physically, which is great because again, I think with the conversations happening more and more, uh us like normal human athlete folk are like, oh, okay, if they're doing it, like then it's totally okay if I do that.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Not that we need that permission, but I do think it helps to see that you know, on a larger stage, they have to do it too.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's one of these things where it's like if we have some of these strategies in place, then you know, it could be one of these uh situations where we do kind of get into this slump and we go back to these strategies to really help pick us back up.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I'll try to get my athletes is whenever they go into surgery or right before to record a video of themselves.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: They could just kind of save it on their phone.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: But just know that there are going to be setbacks potentially in your process, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to record a video of you talking to yourself and talking about what your goals are, what your why is, and being able kind of like the letter to yourself, like she wrote, right?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Seemingly like to be able to be like, okay, um, why I'm doing this.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so then that way, whenever things do get hard, maybe they could reach out and they could like watch this video and help turn things around quicker than just letting letting yourself sit in it, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and adversity is like I had a client the other day who had come back from a surgery and things were going great, and then got into tryouts and things kind of crumbled a little bit.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: First couple practices crumpled a little bit, and then he literally was like, No, we're not doing this again.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And he like flipped the switch and started crushing it.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to him, I was like, I know this is gonna sound so weird, but like I'm really glad you had those bad days because it made him realize like he could be in control of that, like he could say, and the thing is, we're all gonna have bad days.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like we are human, and we you know, we cannot, and it's what do you do with that?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on the flip side, I think it's important for everyone listening to recognize sometimes the bad days do stick around, and we need then more support, right?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: So to recognize that line between today's awful, tomorrow I'm turning it around, and like it's been awful for a really long time, and I'm having a hard time dealing with that, knowing that your resources are there to support you, be it from a mental skills coach or a mental health professional, don't hesitate to reach out.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like you should you shouldn't have to be in this alone, you know?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to hear that and know that it's normal for this experience to be really hard is really helpful.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of the things that I would like to ask you is how with your athletes and especially dealing with injury, how do you get over the fear of re-injury, especially with something like an ACL, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like we go to do a movement, especially something new, you know, how do you get over that fear of re-injury?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really hard one and something I still battle with myself.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's funny.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: One day I remember saying to my mom, like, I can't do this again.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Yeah, again.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And of course I was a violent, she's my mom.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: But like, she was right, you know, and I think sometimes when we are so fearful of having to go through the process again, that's the thing that gets in our way, like, because you're like, I can't do this, but you can, you can, and it doesn't mean it's going to be fun or easy, but you can do it, and it's almost like if you could let go of the like what if it becomes easier to move through that experience, if that makes sense.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and I think there's that acceptance again to recognize like this sucks.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to have to do this again.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: If I had to, I could.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're it just creates space for you, I think, to experience the fear and not get stuck in the fear.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Great mental skills coach Justin Sua, who works for the Tampa Bay Rays, and he has the phrase, like what we resist persists.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: So the more you sit there and think, I can't do this, this is horrible.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: What if I get hurt again?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: The bigger that's just going to be.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: And what I will say to most of my ACL athletes, like day one, we're probably not going to erase that fear entirely.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: But what we're going to do is we're going to work to turn down the volume on the fear and then turn up the volume on the things that will help you.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because from a functional movement standpoint, like people often ask why I work at an injury prevention facility.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm currently the only me here, and the rest of our staff are athletic trainers and training conditioning specialists.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what I say to clients is like, what happens when you're stressed?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I give the example of like take your fists and squeeze them as tight as you can.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when I had them do that after about like, you know, five, 10 seconds, like, what happened to your breath?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, well, I stopped breathing.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, exactly.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: What happened to your shoulders?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, they were at my ears.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: We can't do what we need to do biomechanically in the most efficient way possible when we're feeling stressed and overwhelmed.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: So when we can learn to quiet the fear, our body is going to do what it knows how to do best.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we at that point, we do need to trust in our readiness.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that readiness piece is such a huge part too to have an athlete, you know, as they're going through the process, I'll give them prompts like I'm ready and here's why.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: So before they run, I'm ready and here's why.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I got my range motion back.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: My doctor says I can, I'm feeling much stronger, and I'm really excited.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Trust that.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: As you get back to sport, I'm ready and here's why.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like so to balance the stress management, I think, piece of the fear, turn down the volume, and then also support the readiness with evidence, that can be super helpful.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: We people like evidence, they like to see like this isn't just like, okay, you're free fly.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're free fly because you've done all of this work.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's the value there.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a good point.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And being able, and that's where your rehab and the training that you're doing, these things go hand in hand with the mindset piece and the physical training.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially with athletes I'm working with, we will try to show them, you know what, this is where you're at, and these are the things that you can do.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or let's even flip this and say we have an overconfident athlete who's like fearless or whatever.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm like, okay, well, let's do this.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, nothing to danger them or re-indanger.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd be like, okay, well, like, let's do this movement, and they can't do it.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then it's like it allows you to self-assess and be like, I can't do that yet.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: But the other piece, too, is for the re-injury piece, is knowing, like, have you done everything from a physical preparation standpoint to make sure that you do feel like the fear of re-injury is more so just like, all right, now I just need to kind of work on the mental side of things because you have checked all the boxes on the physical side, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: I do also think, you know, for athletes listening to remember, and I think I alluded to this earlier, it's not gonna go from zero to a hundred.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of times, like athletes hear clearance, and I keep using soccer as the example.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I currently have quite a few soccer players, but they tail pairs.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they think like, all right, I'm gonna go to a 90-minute game.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that is overwhelming.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I look at them and I'm like, forget the soccer part.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, can you run for 90 minutes?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, oh, you're right.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that is hard.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I'm ready for that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's why a place like McKelly, like, that's why we exist, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: To really help in that transition piece so that clearance isn't zero minutes of soccer to a 90-minute game.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Clearance is your baby steps.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: The beacon is now the 90-minute game.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're back to score.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: You hit that beacon, and now this one is I want to play in a whole game like I would normally.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the steps are okay, in practice, I'm back to drills.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: In practice, I'm back to scrimmaging, no contact.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: In practice, I'm back to scrimmaging with contact, right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And seeing that progression so that it's not so overwhelming.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's the anticipatory worry can get so huge.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how am I supposed to do that?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're supposed to take small steps to get there.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know, no one should expect you to go from not playing soccer for a year to playing a 90-minute game.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's just populistic, you know?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the thing that makes this really tough, and this is after, you know, talking with a lot of different athletes who are going through this process and it, you know, coming back to the resources that they have, and you know, whether it's the physical therapist or this transitional, essentially the gap, right?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of this, we have things that work against us that I don't want to go on tangents about, but it's you know, insurance and healthcare and depending on geography and things like that will play a big role into having these resources available.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the things that a lot of athletes will deal with is the gap that exists to be able to transition to something like that, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if the insurance visits run out, what do I do next?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why there are resources out there, whether it's like remote coaching or being able to find someone local to be able to help be that GPS for you in this process instead of trying to figure it out yourself.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the the figuring out themselves, I feel like these athletes, like the expectation is they should be able to, most of them are kids.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean people, adolescents, but like you're 16.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't get in the car and drive yourself.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why should you be figuring out these next steps?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, if you feel like competent to do so, go to go to town, right?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: But like you're right, it's it's encouraging them that like you shouldn't have to do that on your own.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: But then the next step is but what resources are available?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that is there are so many logistics that contribute to that.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I do think the silver lining of COVID is so many people are now working remotely, right?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So those resources like we didn't have, I wasn't working virtually before the pandemic, and now I'm working probably 90% virtually, you know.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I get to see clients from California, which is super, super cool.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's so awesome.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where resources like this can be available, and you don't have to just feel confined to maybe what is like in your city, right?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if the resources are a little scarce in that sense.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that you touched on is like kind of like this progression, and one of the things that we'll use is uh instead of it being like a on and off switch, right?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like all of a sudden, let's say you hit six months or whatever it is, and you're ready to transition back to soccer or or the sport, you're not just gonna go and play in a 90-minute match, you know.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: So the way to look at this is like a dimmer switch, and instead of it being something that's on and off, like flip the script, it's more so of let's use the dimmer switch and slowly brighten up that light.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that way it's like a very slow progression, and then that way it doesn't seem very daunting, or you put yourself in a position where you're like, uh-oh, what am I doing here?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you feel prepared for it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: Keep it digestible.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: The dimmer switch is a great analogy.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: This leads uh us towards the end of the podcast.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: What we will do is we'll have to have Kelsey on for another episode because there's still so many things that we'd love to dive into and we could probably talk all day about.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely good, yes.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, Kelsey, it was such a pleasure to have you on the show today.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where can people find out more about you online and how can they keep up with you on social media?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, thank you, first of all, for having me.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: This was awesome.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, I could definitely talk about this all day.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so exciting that there are more resources like this podcast, Base Yale Club, as we mentioned, um, for athletes to know that they're not alone in this process.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: To find me, so on social media, I'm not like the most social media savvy, but you can find me on Instagram um at PsychUpSorts.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: So P-S-Y-C-H-U-P-S-P-O-R-T-S.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Also online in terms of booking.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: If you are interested, I offer one-on-one sessions if you're local to the Boston area in person, if not virtually.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that you can find me at themkaycenter.com, and I will definitely spell that one.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So T-H-E Amazon Mary I C H E L I C E N T E R dot com.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: We have all sorts of resources online.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can find me there under our mental skills coaching.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, please check this out.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out to Kelsey if you're interested in this.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have talked a lot about this, and she was one of the best out there, and you would be in really good hands.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um, we will put that information, uh, all of Kelsey's information, the McKelly Center, in the show notes below.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Kelsey, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's been awesome.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love talking to people who have gone through this process, especially about the mindset and the mental aspect, as it's such a huge role in this injury.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all the ACL athletes out there will be able to take a lot away from this conversation.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Please feel free to reach out with any questions.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that wraps things up for this episode, guys.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: As always, thank you all so much for listening to the ACL Athlete Podcast.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host, Robbie Patel, signing off.