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Learning Differently: A Mother’s Journey to Understanding and Real Support · All About The Joy

• 0:00
  Carmen Lezeth: I have all these questions ready for you.
• 0:03
  Nikki: Oh, wow.
• 0:03
  Nikki: Okay.
• 0:04
  Carmen Lezeth: So it's gonna be it's gonna be really simple.
• 0:06
  Carmen Lezeth: But you just let me know when you're comfortable and ready.
• 0:08
  Carmen Lezeth: And here's the thing.
• 0:09
  Carmen Lezeth: Wait, is it Alicia?
• 0:11
  Carmen Lezeth: Am I saying it right?
• 0:12
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 0:14
  Carmen Lezeth: No, how do you want your name said?
• 0:16
  Carmen Lezeth: How do you say your name?
• 0:18
  Nikki: Mario calls me Nikki.
• 0:19
  Carmen Lezeth: So what do you want me to call you on the show, Nikki?
• 0:23
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, we can go by Nikki.
• 0:25
  Carmen Lezeth: Are you sure?
• 0:27
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 0:28
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay.
• 0:29
  Carmen Lezeth: All right.
• 0:29
  Carmen Lezeth: So here's what I'm gonna tell you because you're doing this.
• 0:32
  Carmen Lezeth: I'll go out of frame.
• 0:35
  Carmen Lezeth: You're not gonna be still.
• 0:36
  Nikki: I'm trying to get situated so that I don't move again.
• 0:41
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm gonna put this part in because it's funny.
• 0:43
  Nikki: I love it.
• 0:44
  Nikki: Okay.
• 0:44
  Nikki: All right.
• 0:45
  Nikki: So now I am perfectly situated.
• 0:47
  Nikki: I can't move comfortable.
• 0:49
  Nikki: Yes, I am comfy.
• 0:51
  Nikki: Okay.
• 0:52
  Carmen Lezeth: Hey everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
• 0:54
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm Carmen Lisette, your host.
• 0:56
  Carmen Lezeth: This is the private lounge.
• 0:57
  Carmen Lezeth: And visiting us today is I'm gonna say Nikki because you told me to call you Nikki.
• 1:02
  Carmen Lezeth: But we go by Nikki and you've given me permission to say Nikki.
• 1:06
  Carmen Lezeth: So I appreciate that so much.
• 1:07
  Carmen Lezeth: Welcome to the show.
• 1:09
  Nikki: Thank you for having me.
• 1:11
  Carmen Lezeth: Let me ask you first, let me just say this.
• 1:14
  Carmen Lezeth: We have never met.
• 1:16
  Carmen Lezeth: This is our first time.
• 1:17
  Carmen Lezeth: And I just want to say thank you so much for being a viewer and for supporting the show and just for being so kind.
• 1:24
  Carmen Lezeth: But you reached out to me because I had done a Carmen Talk, which is one of the other shows I do under the All About the Joy umbrella.
• 1:34
  Carmen Lezeth: And I had talked about a learning disability.
• 1:37
  Carmen Lezeth: And you as a parent reached out to me.
• 1:40
  Carmen Lezeth: We went back and forth on DMs, and I wanted to continue this conversation.
• 1:45
  Carmen Lezeth: And you said yes.
• 1:46
  Carmen Lezeth: So thank you so much.
• 1:48
  Carmen Lezeth: So welcome to the show.
• 1:51
  Nikki: Thank you for having me.
• 1:53
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, and I wanted to ask you, I guess we should also say that you are one of our hosts' relatives, but you and I have never met yet, but we will someday soon, I hope.
• 2:02
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 2:03
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, I did not tell the host that I was having you on the show, by the way.
• 2:07
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't know if you know what I didn't tell, I didn't tell my cousin either.
• 2:10
  Nikki: So this will be fun.
• 2:12
  Nikki: This will be fun, and then it'll be fun surprised.
• 2:15
  Carmen Lezeth: Um, so the first thing I wanted to ask you was what made you reach out after listening to that episode?
• 2:23
  Nikki: It was what you were talking about.
• 2:24
  Nikki: I hadn't heard anyone talk about like the same thing that my son went through when he was younger.
• 2:33
  Nikki: I hadn't heard anyone like describe the same type of autoprocessing disorder that he was diagnosed with and the type of resources that he received through his IEP.
• 2:46
  Nikki: You were talking about that they have made adjustments for you, and you were talking about how there was nothing wrong with you, you just learned differently.
• 2:56
  Nikki: And that was very similar to my son.
• 2:58
  Nikki: And then once he had his IEP with the adjustments and things made for him, he did so much better in school.
• 3:05
  Nikki: He even was on honor roll a few times in high school.
• 3:09
  Nikki: Yeah, so it was just that was just what he needed, and he actually had some great facilitators along the way that taught him like very successful tools that he still uses to this day.
• 3:21
  Carmen Lezeth: Can I ask you?
• 3:22
  Carmen Lezeth: I have the clinical definition of IEP.
• 3:26
  Carmen Lezeth: Can you just tell our viewers what that means?
• 3:30
  Nikki: Individual educational plan.
• 3:32
  Nikki: So it is a plan that they make up for each student that needs it.
• 3:39
  Nikki: And it's a plan that basically tells whatever teacher or support system he has when he's in school what he needs to be successful and what type of resources that their special education department and the regular teachers need to provide to him?
• 4:01
  Carmen Lezeth: When did you, and thank you for that?
• 4:02
  Carmen Lezeth: I just want our audience to know what we're talking about because I didn't know what IEP was.
• 4:06
  Carmen Lezeth: I was like, oh my God, that's a great name for it.
• 4:09
  Carmen Lezeth: Um let me ask you this: when did you first notice that your son had maybe this different learning ability or was struggling or whatever it was?
• 4:20
  Carmen Lezeth: When did you first notice it?
• 4:22
  Nikki: Oh, it was evident early on, like kindergarten, first grade, he was not, he did not grasp phonics, like phonetic sounds with the letters, and so it made it extremely difficult for him with the reading.
• 4:39
  Nikki: But then we noticed that if things were read to him, he was more successful.
• 4:47
  Carmen Lezeth: Wow.
• 4:48
  Nikki: So there was something happening, so even like kind of first grade, when they're like teaching you how to read, they would have the teacher's assistant work with him after school or spend a little bit more time with him, and they realized that he was successful when they did that.
• 5:05
  Nikki: So that was when he went to a private school for the first part, so they had started doing those things for him.
• 5:13
  Nikki: But my concern in the private school was that I came from private school, and one of the issues that I felt like was an issue was that private schools teach you in their environment, they teach you to succeed in their environment.
• 5:28
  Nikki: And then sometimes when you leave that environment, it's a little difficult.
• 5:33
  Nikki: So I pulled him out of there after first grade and I put him in public school.
• 5:40
  Carmen Lezeth: Oh my God, that is such I think that is such a profound thing for a parent to do.
• 5:45
  Carmen Lezeth: You wanted to make sure he could use those skills and learn those skills in regular life, not just in private school, and so you made that decision.
• 5:54
  Nikki: Because I realized they were making adjustments and things, but I didn't want the pass-along to keep happening where he wasn't, where the problem wasn't being identified and they weren't doing things to actually fix it.
• 6:09
  Nikki: I didn't want him to get to sixth grade and then we have to look for another school, and then he's not successful.
• 6:16
  Nikki: Wow.
• 6:17
  Carmen Lezeth: So when was the turning point for you when you were like, you know what, we're gonna stay out of private school, we're gonna put him in public school?
• 6:25
  Nikki: That was second grade.
• 6:26
  Nikki: I put him in a different school district.
• 6:28
  Nikki: I won't say the school district, but I put him in a school district.
• 6:32
  Nikki: Nobody knows where you are in the country, but right, for the city that we were living in, and immediately that's when I knew that there was a problem because the private school wasn't saying anything other than, oh, he just needs a little more help with the reading.
• 6:45
  Nikki: And so that's all they were saying, but I knew something was wrong.
• 6:49
  Nikki: I was speaking to your co-host, well, actually, two of your co-hosts, the ones that are married.
• 6:55
  Nikki: We can say who they are.
• 6:56
  Nikki: Yeah.
• 6:57
  Nikki: I'm not trying to avoid Mario and Alma.
• 7:00
  Nikki: So Alma works in education.
• 7:01
  Nikki: I spoke to them, and so I put the I put him in public school, and immediately they wanted to retain him.
• 7:10
  Carmen Lezeth: When you say retain, when I was growing up, it's called put him, keep him back a grade or so.
• 7:15
  Carmen Lezeth: Yes.
• 7:16
  Carmen Lezeth: And they tried to do that three times, you said, right?
• 7:18
  Carmen Lezeth: I thought I had raised.
• 7:19
  Nikki: No, second and third grade.
• 7:22
  Carmen Lezeth: No, and you said no.
• 7:23
  Nikki: I said no, yes, because I believe Alma was the one that told me that I have a right to say no.
• 7:30
  Nikki: I don't have to agree to it.
• 7:32
  Nikki: So I said no, and they gave me like a you have to fill out something.
• 7:35
  Nikki: But you can say no.
• 7:36
  Nikki: And a lot of parents don't know that because actually a few of my friends were shocked that you can say no.
• 7:42
  Nikki: And so I had to fill out like this, it was like very official, like this pink like a waiver or something.
• 7:48
  Nikki: Yeah, it was like this pink triplicate form and all that, and they tried to shame me, the principal, and oh, you're doing him a disservice.
• 7:56
  Nikki: But my problem was what is holding him back going to do for the problem?
• 8:02
  Nikki: And they didn't have an answer for that.
• 8:05
  Nikki: How is that going to help him?
• 8:07
  Carmen Lezeth: Parenting right there.
• 8:09
  Carmen Lezeth: No, but it's like I I love having you on here because, and I say disrespectfully, I wish I had somebody, I wish I had a parent or an adult do that for me.
• 8:20
  Carmen Lezeth: And that's why we have you on the show because talking about this is teaching parents that you can advocate for your children and help them through this process.
• 8:29
  Carmen Lezeth: But go ahead, I'm so sorry.
• 8:31
  Carmen Lezeth: So they shamed you, and you were like, What's he going to do?
• 8:35
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 8:35
  Carmen Lezeth: You were like, what's putting him back going to do to solve the problem?
• 8:38
  Carmen Lezeth: Nothing.
• 8:39
  Nikki: And so then by third grade, they I feel like because I didn't hold him back, it was like they were calling me for everything.
• 8:51
  Nikki: Oh it was like it was everything I was being called to the school for.
• 8:56
  Nikki: And I believe they thought I was like a single mother with no support for some reason.
• 9:01
  Carmen Lezeth: So some reason.
• 9:03
  Nikki: So then I called in his uncle to start coming with me to the school, right?
• 9:09
  Nikki: I decided to pull him out.
• 9:11
  Nikki: And so I did my research and I found a school that was in trouble, which is another fun fact for parents.
• 9:22
  Nikki: If you look up a public school that is not the best public school, they have like more requirements from the school district to be like on top of everything because they have lower tw test scores, they have they're not meeting their marks.
• 9:42
  Carmen Lezeth: Oh my god, this is this is great information.
• 9:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Go ahead.
• 9:45
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 9:48
  Nikki: So I put him in a school that was in a different school district that was close to my parents' house, like actually like within walking distance.
• 9:56
  Nikki: So I put him there, and within the first week, the teacher called me and was like, We have a problem.
• 10:03
  Nikki: I think that I need to refer him to special education because something is wrong, and I think we need to figure it out.
• 10:10
  Nikki: And I started the process with the IEP.
• 10:14
  Nikki: The first thing they told me to do was to speak with his doctor, and that was the first like round, which I had no idea that the pediatrician is a part of the process.
• 10:25
  Nikki: I had no idea.
• 10:27
  Nikki: So we had Kaiser at the time, and so the way they handle it is they first check for ADD or ADHD.
• 10:35
  Nikki: Okay.
• 10:36
  Nikki: So they send you to that department.
• 10:38
  Carmen Lezeth: They also send you to neurology, like they check everything across the board before so this is from you and a teacher having a collaboration, a conversation, and a teacher saying we need to figure it out.
• 10:51
  Carmen Lezeth: This is how it should work, by the way.
• 10:53
  Carmen Lezeth: And then here are all the places we should go and start with your pediatrician, and then your pediatrician is saying, Let's figure it out by going to neurology, going to ADHD, all these other things.
• 11:06
  Nikki: Yeah, special education was the one that told me to start with his doctor, that it starts there.
• 11:11
  Nikki: And so I went to speak to her, and she wasn't surprised when I came because she had actually noticed a few things.
• 11:20
  Nikki: I won't say that because it has to do with someone else, but she had already noticed some things about me and his biological father.
• 11:29
  Nikki: Okay.
• 11:29
  Nikki: She and then she would always ask me when I would bring him, has he tried to play organized sports yet?
• 11:36
  Nikki: Has he had a problem with that?
• 11:37
  Nikki: And she would always ask me that, and I had no idea why.
• 11:40
  Nikki: But that was why she was asking those kind of things.
• 11:43
  Nikki: Was he having any problems yet?
• 11:45
  Nikki: And so when I came and told her about that, she wasn't really surprised because she had a feeling that something would show up somewhere.
• 11:54
  Nikki: So she gave me the referrals and he didn't have ADHD, he didn't have ADD.
• 12:00
  Nikki: They sent him to neurology, they did all of these tests, and then he worked with someone in the I forgot the department, I think it still has to do with neurology.
• 12:08
  Nikki: They see kids and she gave him like these fidgets.
• 12:12
  Nikki: They gave him like a bag full of fidgets and things, and that was when they diagnosed him with the autoprocessing disorder.
• 12:20
  Nikki: And they said that diagnosis is specifically for children who learn differently.
• 12:27
  Nikki: And that was when they gave me a report.
• 12:30
  Nikki: Yeah, that was they named it, and they printed out a report that I could take to the school, and I gave it to special education, and I will say the lady's name, Miss Love.
• 12:40
  Nikki: She was the special education facilitator that wrote out his initial IEP.
• 12:46
  Carmen Lezeth: Wait, her name was Miss Love?
• 12:48
  Carmen Lezeth: Yes.
• 12:49
  Carmen Lezeth: Come on now.
• 12:50
  Carmen Lezeth: Props to her.
• 12:52
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm sorry.
• 12:53
  Carmen Lezeth: That's just for a fact.
• 12:54
  Carmen Lezeth: Yes.
• 12:54
  Carmen Lezeth: Okay.
• 12:55
  Nikki: Yes.
• 12:56
  Nikki: And she worked with him until I believe fifth or sixth grade.
• 13:01
  Carmen Lezeth: Wow.
• 13:02
  Nikki: Yes.
• 13:03
  Nikki: And everything changed from that moment.
• 13:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Everything changed in that moment when you know the diagnosis and you can work within it.
• 13:10
  Nikki: Yes.
• 13:10
  Nikki: And the IEP that she wrote out for him was amazing.
• 13:15
  Nikki: And she told me when she wrote it out, do not let anyone change this IEP.
• 13:20
  Nikki: And she told me that you have rights as a parent.
• 13:23
  Nikki: And she explained all of my rights.
• 13:26
  Nikki: And she told me that I have a right to tell them not to change the writing.
• 13:31
  Nikki: Do not take away his resources.
• 13:33
  Nikki: And so his IEP stuck with him through college.
• 13:37
  Carmen Lezeth: And can I just say, and you shared that with me, and thank you so much.
• 13:41
  Nikki: Which I didn't know either that you could take an IEP to college.
• 13:44
  Nikki: I had no idea until she told me that.
• 13:46
  Carmen Lezeth: I wish I, again, I I'm older than you, but I wish you had been my mama.
• 13:50
  Carmen Lezeth: Like I said, I don't think that much older.
• 13:52
  Carmen Lezeth: But you know what I'm saying.
• 13:54
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, I feel like the reason why this is such an important topic is like I was talking about my situation, hoping it would help somebody else.
• 14:02
  Carmen Lezeth: But what you're doing is actually putting the structure around how parents can deal with this.
• 14:08
  Carmen Lezeth: And at the same time, realize your son, here's what I love about the way you interacted with me, the emails you sent me, and even this conversation.
• 14:17
  Carmen Lezeth: Not once did you ever think your son was not capable.
• 14:22
  Carmen Lezeth: Not once.
• 14:23
  Carmen Lezeth: You knew that something else was happening.
• 14:26
  Carmen Lezeth: And what happened with me, and I think you got this, was I thought I was the stupid one.
• 14:32
  Carmen Lezeth: I thought I was dumb.
• 14:33
  Carmen Lezeth: I thought I was it was such a struggle.
• 14:36
  Carmen Lezeth: So I just I love that you I'm jealous.
• 14:40
  Carmen Lezeth: No, and I saw that struggle.
• 14:43
  Nikki: I saw that struggle in him.
• 14:45
  Nikki: And it was hard to watch as a parent.
• 14:47
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 14:48
  Nikki: And it was hard to watch other people not understand it.
• 14:51
  Nikki: Just say, oh, he's just spoiled.
• 14:53
  Nikki: Oh, he's just bad.
• 14:56
  Carmen Lezeth: Trying hard enough.
• 14:56
  Carmen Lezeth: He's not trying hard enough, which I think was the worst thing that people could say to me when I knew I was struggling so hard and failing, anyways.
• 15:06
  Nikki: Yeah, like people said a lot of things to me about him when he was younger.
• 15:11
  Nikki: I just have that type of personality or demeanor where I really don't care what someone says.
• 15:20
  Nikki: And if you can say it, and I don't I I had I used to have this habit of not saying anything at all because I just didn't care.
• 15:29
  Nikki: It's like you could say whatever and I didn't say anything.
• 15:31
  Carmen Lezeth: But it's about your children.
• 15:33
  Nikki: Yeah, it's like I didn't care.
• 15:35
  Nikki: But then I realized that I had to start responding back because people took my silence as the weakness or to keep going with it.
• 15:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 15:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Like they they like permission that they could keep doing.
• 15:47
  Carmen Lezeth: I was always shocked by adults who didn't handle me when it came to the situation, not with care, not with nurturing, not with and I'm not saying everyone, because clearly I then succeeded because I met all the right adults in college, but it wasn't till college that happened.
• 16:04
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 16:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Because one person noticed.
• 16:07
  Carmen Lezeth: But let me ask you this part how did your son deal with it?
• 16:12
  Carmen Lezeth: If that's okay to ask.
• 16:14
  Nikki: The younger years, it was a little hard for him at first, like third, fourth grade.
• 16:20
  Nikki: I want to say the was it elementary.
• 16:22
  Nikki: It was a little hard for him because kids don't understand.
• 16:27
  Nikki: Oh, you're being pulled out to go to special education and they're asking questions.
• 16:33
  Nikki: And then he had one teacher.
• 16:35
  Nikki: It was an older lady.
• 16:37
  Nikki: She wasn't very nice to him at first for a while.
• 16:40
  Nikki: I spent a lot of time, I feel like, fighting her because he would come home and she was mean.
• 16:47
  Nikki: And it was ultimately because she thought he was, she thought he was spoiled, she thought he was lazy, she thought I babied him.
• 16:54
  Carmen Lezeth: But it wasn't until he had teaching who think this about children.
• 16:58
  Carmen Lezeth: But anyway, but go ahead.
• 16:59
  Nikki: I know it wasn't until he had a health issue.
• 17:02
  Nikki: He got these sores on his hand that we couldn't get rid of.
• 17:07
  Nikki: And they actually ended up having to prescribe him a cream that they prescribe cancer patients.
• 17:14
  Nikki: But the cream is so strong that you can't put regular bandages on it.
• 17:18
  Nikki: You have to put duct tape.
• 17:21
  Nikki: Oh God, I know nothing about that.
• 17:23
  Nikki: You have to put the cream on, and then I had to cover it with duct tape.
• 17:27
  Nikki: So I went to Michael's and found, I let him pick which duct tape.
• 17:31
  Nikki: He found one with flames.
• 17:33
  Nikki: I cut it into what band-aids would look like because they were all over his hands.
• 17:38
  Nikki: So it would be like it was probably like six or seven on one hand, five or six on the other.
• 17:44
  Nikki: And so it wasn't until that happened, and then I had to tell her why he had that.
• 17:51
  Nikki: It wasn't until then that she was a little bit more compassionate towards him because I think she started to think, oh, there may be a little bit more going on with this kid than I realized.
• 18:01
  Nikki: But at first, she was very mean.
• 18:04
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, and I'm so sorry about that.
• 18:06
  Carmen Lezeth: Let me ask you this question.
• 18:08
  Carmen Lezeth: As a parent, how was it for you to see your child struggle in this manner?
• 18:16
  Nikki: It was hard.
• 18:17
  Nikki: It was hard.
• 18:18
  Nikki: But at the same time, my child was so empowered and so confident.
• 18:23
  Nikki: My parents got him a cell phone.
• 18:27
  Nikki: He'd had a cell phone since he was eight.
• 18:29
  Nikki: He was, I actually had to tell him sometimes, you gotta chill.
• 18:33
  Nikki: Because he would be like, Call my mom.
• 18:36
  Nikki: You want me to call her?
• 18:37
  Nikki: I have a phone.
• 18:38
  Nikki: And he'd pull it out.
• 18:40
  Carmen Lezeth: Like he was calling me.
• 18:41
  Carmen Lezeth: Oh, he was calling because he was upset or something?
• 18:45
  Nikki: Yes.
• 18:45
  Nikki: Or they would threaten to call me and he'd be like, Yes, call my mother, please.
• 18:49
  Nikki: And they would take that as disrespect.
• 18:51
  Nikki: But he knew that I was going to advocate for him.
• 18:55
  Nikki: Because I'm one of those people where if you tell me what my son did, I'm gonna ask you what happened before that.
• 19:02
  Nikki: Right.
• 19:02
  Nikki: And what happened after that?
• 19:04
  Nikki: And so he knew that I'm gonna hold everybody accountable.
• 19:08
  Nikki: Like, yes, he may have done what he did.
• 19:10
  Carmen Lezeth: But parents isn't that we would want is involved parents.
• 19:14
  Carmen Lezeth: So the phone thing, so he would use the phone to not only call you and his grandparents, but also to stand up for himself when an adult who should know better would threaten to call us.
• 19:25
  Carmen Lezeth: He'd be like, Yeah, here, call them exactly my mama's gonna come and defend me, my mom is gonna come and find out what the real answer is.
• 19:32
  Carmen Lezeth: Now, if he did something wrong, right, you would hold him accountable as well.
• 19:36
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 19:37
  Nikki: But you usually there's you know how they say there's always three sides to a story.
• 19:42
  Nikki: And yeah, I found out that, especially with him, that adults did not handle a lot of situations well.
• 19:52
  Nikki: No, but I found out that adults can be really childish, especially if they just yes, they can be cruel and they can be childish.
• 20:00
  Nikki: I was happy when he got out of elementary school.
• 20:03
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, I had a professor at and I said this in that video that I did for Carmen Talk, who just berated me in front of the class, but also would say, You're trying to make it on your personality.
• 20:17
  Carmen Lezeth: Like he would constantly try to act like that.
• 20:20
  Carmen Lezeth: My personality was the problem.
• 20:22
  Carmen Lezeth: And I have to tell you, that knocked me.
• 20:26
  Carmen Lezeth: It it hurt me so much because I started questioning, like, so I'm bad because I like people and I like to like I started really doing this bad thing.
• 20:38
  Carmen Lezeth: So that's me being in college, freshman year, being an adult, having other adults who we're supposed to be learning from.
• 20:48
  Carmen Lezeth: So can you imagine being a kid?
• 20:50
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, that's why I'm advocating for what you're saying, you know?
• 20:54
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 20:54
  Carmen Lezeth: And I love it and I'm jealous, and but I mean, I'm fine, but you know, I have these moments.
• 20:59
  Carmen Lezeth: What would be your advice for other parents?
• 21:03
  Carmen Lezeth: You know, before we go there, when you noticed this was going on, when you noticed that your son was struggling, do you remember what some of the other signs were?
• 21:13
  Carmen Lezeth: You said he wasn't good with phonics, you said there was some, but you didn't bring that to the school.
• 21:18
  Carmen Lezeth: You thought maybe school would help fix that.
• 21:20
  Carmen Lezeth: Or were there other signs?
• 21:24
  Nikki: Um he would get distracted very easily, and he would get frustrated very easily because he would put the effort and then he just couldn't get it.
• 21:39
  Nikki: And it was the frustration that was the part that let me know something was wrong because he was genuinely trying and he just couldn't get it.
• 21:49
  Carmen Lezeth: I'd be in tears.
• 21:50
  Carmen Lezeth: I'd be in tears.
• 21:51
  Nikki: It was hard, it was hard to watch.
• 21:53
  Nikki: It was hard to watch.
• 21:54
  Carmen Lezeth: How is he now?
• 21:57
  Nikki: He is a rock star now.
• 21:59
  Nikki: He's in the army.
• 22:01
  Nikki: He works in construction.
• 22:04
  Nikki: He's 24.
• 22:05
  Nikki: He'll be 25 in a couple weeks.
• 22:08
  Carmen Lezeth: And that changed the game for him, just knowing how he learned.
• 22:11
  Carmen Lezeth: He was able to embrace that and move forward.
• 22:14
  Nikki: And I just army doesn't recognize any of these things.
• 22:20
  Nikki: So when he went to take the test, he had to pull out some of those strategies that he had learned from.
• 22:29
  Nikki: Right.
• 22:30
  Nikki: He had a really great, he had a really great special education administrator in junior high as well.
• 22:37
  Nikki: Um great woman.
• 22:41
  Nikki: I still follow her on Instagram.
• 22:43
  Nikki: She used to check in with him when he started high school.
• 22:45
  Nikki: She came by our house to see him.
• 22:47
  Nikki: She gave him strategies for life.
• 22:51
  Carmen Lezeth: I think that's the key because I use the same strategies too.
• 22:55
  Carmen Lezeth: Nobody cares about any of my quote unquote learning disabilities.
• 22:59
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, you know what I mean?
• 23:00
  Carmen Lezeth: Nobody cares.
• 23:02
  Carmen Lezeth: But because I learn the strategies and I understand how I learn and how I work, you incorporate that into your everyday life.
• 23:10
  Carmen Lezeth: And so nobody notices it.
• 23:12
  Carmen Lezeth: Like here's what I'm saying.
• 23:13
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 23:14
  Nikki: And that's what she taught him.
• 23:15
  Nikki: Like the invaluable lessons, like that he still that he still carries to this day.
• 23:21
  Nikki: So yeah.
• 23:22
  Carmen Lezeth: So I'm going to tell people like one of the other things that I did have I stuttered a lot as a kid.
• 23:27
  Carmen Lezeth: That was one of the I think signs people might have noticed if they were paying attention.
• 23:33
  Carmen Lezeth: There was a lot of stuttering.
• 23:35
  Carmen Lezeth: And I still stutter to this day.
• 23:36
  Carmen Lezeth: And now that I told you, you will hear it.
• 23:38
  Carmen Lezeth: But I do a really good job of editing.
• 23:40
  Carmen Lezeth: But this, it's the same kind of thing.
• 23:43
  Carmen Lezeth: The skills that I have learned when I speak, it's not that I no longer stutter, it's that I've learned breath work.
• 23:51
  Carmen Lezeth: I've learned all the tools that I need to learn so that I don't stutter normally like I used to all the time.
• 24:00
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 24:01
  Carmen Lezeth: And not that's I was using that as an example, but it's like all of those were little signs that people said would have noticed that I was struggling on so many levels because that's that was a stress thing.
• 24:13
  Carmen Lezeth: I was also crying a lot.
• 24:15
  Carmen Lezeth: I was doing all the things that I think you you're talking about, maybe a little bit differently, but it's fascinating to me.
• 24:22
  Carmen Lezeth: What would be your advice for other parents who have young children who might be showing signs of this or even older children?
• 24:34
  Nikki: I would say to them to remove the stigma that they have in their mind about special education and what IEP is.
• 24:47
  Nikki: IEP is an individual educational plan for your child.
• 24:51
  Nikki: I would just say, and do your research because it's the best thing for your child.
• 24:58
  Nikki: It's not embarrassing.
• 25:01
  Carmen Lezeth: It's not people hear special education, and it that in and of itself has a stigma.
• 25:08
  Nikki: That has a stigma to it, right?
• 25:09
  Nikki: And then that puts a lot of apprehension and that makes them not want to.
• 25:14
  Nikki: It almost screams, my child's not normal, or my child's stupid.
• 25:18
  Nikki: And that's not what that means.
• 25:20
  Nikki: Not at all.
• 25:21
  Nikki: Not at all.
• 25:22
  Nikki: These are things that can make your child successful.
• 25:25
  Nikki: These are things that can bring out the brilliance in your child.
• 25:30
  Nikki: My son was on honor roll several times with an IEP.
• 25:35
  Nikki: So it can make them successful.
• 25:38
  Nikki: It can all it does is remove the barriers that are not making them successful.
• 25:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Well, and I would even say, and this might not be fair, this might be my ego.
• 25:48
  Carmen Lezeth: I think kids who struggle in this way because society isn't set up to acknowledge how people learn differently, those kids that are struggling are actually much smarter than anybody realizes because they're working so hard just to try to get at the bare minimum.
• 26:08
  Carmen Lezeth: Right.
• 26:09
  Carmen Lezeth: And it's I'm not saying that's a good thing.
• 26:11
  Carmen Lezeth: I'm saying the stigma that you have is based on your perception of what you think normal is, when actually, from my point of view, being normal is actually acknowledging that we all learn differently.
• 26:26
  Carmen Lezeth: And because of that, I'm going to excel if I have that information.
• 26:31
  Carmen Lezeth: Even if society is set up not to embrace how I learn, having that information makes me learn the skills I need to have in order to be brilliant and microf.
• 26:43
  Nikki: And then knowing that you have a right to choose what's best for your child.
• 26:48
  Nikki: Yes.
• 26:48
  Nikki: When he started seventh grade, I had put him in a junior I had put him in a junior high that I thought was great.
• 26:55
  Nikki: I thought, oh, this celebrity started these charter schools, or he's on the board of these charter schools.
• 27:01
  Nikki: I'm going to try this out.
• 27:03
  Nikki: This might be good for him.
• 27:04
  Nikki: They didn't even have a special education person on staff.
• 27:10
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 27:10
  Nikki: Um, many times.
• 27:12
  Nikki: I had to pull him out within the first three and a half weeks of school.
• 27:17
  Nikki: Yeah.
• 27:18
  Nikki: And luckily, the school he was at before, I went and talked to the principal and I told her what was going on.
• 27:26
  Nikki: And she was like, Yes, I'll take him.
• 27:30
  Nikki: I'll take him back.
• 27:31
  Carmen Lezeth: Thank God.
• 27:31
  Carmen Lezeth: I really have to applaud you as a parent.
• 27:34
  Carmen Lezeth: And I I hope you don't think I'm being condescending.
• 27:37
  Carmen Lezeth: I think there's so much also, you know, you you had said something earlier, and I kind of made a face, and I kind of want to explain it.
• 27:45
  Carmen Lezeth: The reason why people had an image or an idea is because we have a stereotype of what a black mother would be like, and it's bullshit.
• 27:54
  Carmen Lezeth: That's why I made that face, but I want to explain it to the audience, and it's being invested in your child is what makes you a good parent.
• 28:03
  Carmen Lezeth: And just because people aren't gonna stand back and let you tell them what your child should and should not be doing does not make you a bad parent, makes you a great parent.
• 28:12
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what I mean?
• 28:12
  Carmen Lezeth: I love that.
• 28:13
  Carmen Lezeth: And I just want to applaud you for that as well.
• 28:16
  Carmen Lezeth: How would you let's say you it's not your kid, it's some other kid.
• 28:22
  Carmen Lezeth: What would you say to possible kids or young adults or people who might be struggling and might be having an aha moment?
• 28:30
  Carmen Lezeth: What would you maybe share with them if they're thinking they might have this same problem?
• 28:36
  Nikki: I would tell them to go to their, if they're in school, go to their resource centers and talk to them.
• 28:46
  Nikki: Because a lot of schools have resources for students who know that they have a certain problem.
• 28:55
  Nikki: And I learned that with going on campus with my son when he took a copy of his IEP to college.
• 29:02
  Nikki: There were students in there who did not have IEPs, they just needed help.
• 29:07
  Nikki: And they offered resources free to help them.
• 29:11
  Nikki: So I would say you can be your own advocate also, even in high school, even in college.
• 29:17
  Nikki: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Nikki: They have the resources there, you just have to seek them out.
• 29:21
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 29:21
  Carmen Lezeth: And I graduated, I'm happy to tell people, I graduated in 1994 from college.
• 29:25
  Carmen Lezeth: So it was in my freshman year.
• 29:28
  Carmen Lezeth: And what I didn't know that there was a way in which to I really thought I was just too stupid.
• 29:34
  Carmen Lezeth: I thought I was too dumb.
• 29:36
  Carmen Lezeth: I wasn't, but if you are struggling and you are stressing yourself out and you know you're doing the work and you're not doing well, anyways, go ask someone for help.
• 29:45
  Carmen Lezeth: Ask.
• 29:46
  Carmen Lezeth: And if that person doesn't want to help you, ask another person because there will be somebody out there who understands that you need to be tested.
• 29:53
  Carmen Lezeth: You need to be tested.
• 29:56
  Nikki: And we have to remove it because in those offices, all I saw was white people.
• 30:02
  Carmen Lezeth: Yep.
• 30:04
  Nikki: They were taking advantage of those resources.
• 30:06
  Carmen Lezeth: Yep.
• 30:07
  Nikki: Every one of them.
• 30:09
  Carmen Lezeth: It's absolutely true.
• 30:10
  Carmen Lezeth: And I went to the University of Vermont.
• 30:12
  Carmen Lezeth: Doesn't get any whiter than that.
• 30:13
  Carmen Lezeth: I mean, maybe it does, but and it's true.
• 30:17
  Carmen Lezeth: It's true.
• 30:18
  Carmen Lezeth: And what ends up happening, just so other people understand, so I grew up without parents on the streets, blah, blah.
• 30:24
  Carmen Lezeth: So that stigma on top of it was like, oh, she's lazy, she's from a poor, blah, blah, blah.
• 30:30
  Carmen Lezeth: All this, it's just piling on instead of trying to fix the problem.
• 30:35
  Carmen Lezeth: Instead of trying to see that maybe as an individual, I was trying really hard.
• 30:40
  Carmen Lezeth: I had gotten here to college.
• 30:43
  Carmen Lezeth: You know what I mean?
• 30:44
  Carmen Lezeth: Like, so help me.
• 30:46
  Carmen Lezeth: And you know what they did?
• 30:47
  Carmen Lezeth: As much as I hate UVM for so many other reasons, I do give credit to the people that were there.
• 30:53
  Carmen Lezeth: And I mentioned it before the Barry Mansfields, the Patty Corcorans, the people that went out of their way to make sure that I had a fair chance and got arrested, you know?
• 31:04
  Nikki: Because they have note takers, they turn your books into spiral.
• 31:09
  Nikki: They have all of these things that people may think are unimportant, but they are important to people who learn differently.
• 31:15
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 31:15
  Nikki: It's important that book is spiral, you know, for people who learn differently.
• 31:20
  Nikki: You may think that it's not, but it is.
• 31:23
  Nikki: It's important for someone else to take notes and you read it because sometimes you just can't catch every single thing when you're trying to write your own notes.
• 31:33
  Nikki: Those things are important.
• 31:34
  Nikki: Man, I wish you'd be able to do that.
• 31:35
  Nikki: And having extra time, having a little extra time when you're taking something, not because you're not ready, but just because you take a little bit extra time on each question.
• 31:46
  Nikki: So you need a few more minutes more than everybody.
• 31:50
  Carmen Lezeth: And you're also reflecting back to that initial video I did where I talked about what ended up happening was I was given more time to take tests because part of my problem was I didn't have the skill sets I needed in order to read as quickly, or I get really stressed and I couldn't do multiple choice.
• 32:08
  Carmen Lezeth: But if you asked me the question, I could answer it.
• 32:12
  Carmen Lezeth: But if you put all these multiple choice questions, all of a sudden my brain was doing way too much trying to, and it would take up too much time.
• 32:19
  Carmen Lezeth: So I had a lot more time to do things.
• 32:22
  Carmen Lezeth: But I didn't have someone taking notes.
• 32:24
  Carmen Lezeth: I'd like to have that now at work.
• 32:28
  Nikki: Wouldn't that be nice if someone just wrote out everything for you and then handed it to you at the end?
• 32:33
  Nikki: It would be so much easier.
• 32:36
  Carmen Lezeth: Do you have any last insight you want to share before I give you my last love fest on I'm so glad we've met?
• 32:45
  Nikki: Um, I would tell parents, be an advocate for your child.
• 32:48
  Nikki: Just be an advocate and listen to them and start asking when your child is in trouble at school, start asking the question, even to the adults, what happened before that and what happened after that?
• 33:00
  Nikki: Because those are important questions.
• 33:02
  Nikki: And I don't say that lightly.
• 33:04
  Nikki: I say that because I used to be an after-school coordinator.
• 33:07
  Nikki: Uh-huh.
• 33:07
  Nikki: And those are some important questions to ask.
• 33:10
  Nikki: Because you find out a lot more information, and sometimes you find out that your child was reacting to something.
• 33:18
  Nikki: Exactly.
• 33:18
  Nikki: And then that's important too.
• 33:21
  Nikki: You know, why your child reacted that way.
• 33:24
  Carmen Lezeth: You said listen to your child, and I wanted to add and believe them.
• 33:28
  Nikki: Yes.
• 33:29
  Carmen Lezeth: Yes.
• 33:30
  Nikki: And then because even in the lie, there's truth in there sometimes.
• 33:33
  Nikki: So you have to listen to your child.
• 33:35
  Nikki: You have to listen to them.
• 33:37
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, because if not, your kid, and it's because it's what I experienced.
• 33:41
  Carmen Lezeth: Not because anyone did wrong anything wrong to me.
• 33:43
  Carmen Lezeth: I don't want anyone to think that it's just the circumstance of how I grew up.
• 33:46
  Carmen Lezeth: And that is what it is.
• 33:48
  Carmen Lezeth: I didn't have a consistent adult watching me in my life to notice things.
• 33:53
  Carmen Lezeth: It's just what happened.
• 33:55
  Carmen Lezeth: But I had a brilliant childhood and I wouldn't go, I wouldn't change a thing because I've invested way too much time.
• 34:01
  Carmen Lezeth: I need to see how this ends up.
• 34:03
  Carmen Lezeth: But if someone is telling you something, if someone is sharing something with you, believe them.
• 34:11
  Carmen Lezeth: Yes.
• 34:12
  Carmen Lezeth: And I think that's always been the hardest thing is that people really didn't believe me.
• 34:17
  Carmen Lezeth: They just thought I wasn't trying hard enough or that I could do better.
• 34:21
  Nikki: You know, like no, I didn't think that I was a perfect parent.
• 34:25
  Nikki: I thought I made a lot of mistakes.
• 34:27
  Nikki: But my son, when he turned 23, he told me that he was thankful for how I was as a parent when he was younger, because he said that he knew that he could trust me and he knew that I was going to listen to him.
• 34:44
  Nikki: See?
• 34:44
  Nikki: And he liked that I held everybody accountable for things when things went wrong, especially in school.
• 34:54
  Nikki: Yeah.
• 34:54
  Nikki: Yeah.
• 34:56
  Carmen Lezeth: Nikki, Alicia, Nikki.
• 34:58
  Carmen Lezeth: No, Nikki, thank you so much for being here.
• 35:02
  Carmen Lezeth: And I just want to close out by saying this.
• 35:05
  Carmen Lezeth: This is what all about the joy is about.
• 35:08
  Carmen Lezeth: It's about bringing people together, learning stuff from each other, finding joy in it, anyways.
• 35:13
  Carmen Lezeth: And I just feel like you embody the ideal audience member.
• 35:17
  Carmen Lezeth: And I say that respectfully because I don't have millions of followers and listeners or whatever.
• 35:22
  Carmen Lezeth: And I'm always like, oh my God, I wonder if I'm making a difference at all.
• 35:26
  Carmen Lezeth: And I just love that you reached out to me and made me feel so, I hate to say it this way, but like that what I was offering was valuable.
• 35:35
  Carmen Lezeth: And now we've had this next conversation, and I hope it's going to help other people.
• 35:40
  Nikki: I hope so too.
• 35:41
  Nikki: I hope it empowers parents to be advocates for their children.
• 35:45
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah.
• 35:46
  Carmen Lezeth: So thank you so much for being here.
• 35:47
  Carmen Lezeth: And you'll have to come back and we'll talk about the show.
• 35:49
  Carmen Lezeth: Thank you for having me.
• 35:50
  Carmen Lezeth: Yeah, thank you so much.
• 35:52
  Carmen Lezeth: I appreciate it.
• 35:53
  Carmen Lezeth: And everyone, thank you so much for stopping by.
• 35:55
  Carmen Lezeth: Appreciate your support and your love and for hanging out with us.
• 35:59
  Carmen Lezeth: And remember, at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy.
• 36:02
  Carmen Lezeth: Bye, everyone.
• 36:04
  Carmen Lezeth: Bye.
• 36:05
  Carmen Lezeth: Thanks for stopping by, all about the joy.
• 36:08
  Carmen Lezeth: Be better and stay beautiful, folks.
• 36:10
  Carmen Lezeth: Have a sweet day.