Latest / Coaches Rising / 282 - Tara Springett: The 9 Stages of Consciousness

Transcript

282 - Tara Springett: The 9 Stages of Consciousness · Coaches Rising

0:00
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching.
0:20
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the coach's rising podcast welcome back and today I am delighted to be joined by Tara Springett.
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Tara is a Buddhist teacher, Jigang teacher and a therapist who specializes in spiritual crises and Kundalini syndrome and at the moment Tara is inundated with people as more and more people
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: go deeper into their spiritual practice.
0:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Torres also, the author of several books, including higher consciousness healing, advanced manifesting, and the award-winning book, the stairway to heaven.
0:55
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about that book today.
0:57
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about nine stages of consciousness.
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the key motivations at each stage?
1:03
[SPEAKER_00]: How can we stabilize our stage through certain meditation practices?
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And what?
1:08
[SPEAKER_00]: things move us from one stage to the next.
1:12
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll also talk about manifestation and how Tara learnt about this through her Buddhist roots and how Buddhism sees manifestation.
1:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's really helpful and we'll talk about spiritual crises as well and what are some of the key things that Tara does with her clients.
1:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So as you'll hear Tara has such a wealth of experience and knowledge
1:38
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, Tara, it's delightful to be with you.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking forward to this conversation actually a lot, so Thank you.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, maybe a good place just to begin is just to say could you say a few words about who you are and what you do?
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I am a psychotherapist and I'm also a Tibetan Buddhist teacher and I mostly work with people who have a spiritual crisis or also known as Kundalini Awakening and they have spiritual crisis symptoms like very strong emotions and negative feelings of energy in their body and confusion and these types of things and that's my main work.
2:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we'll get on to that hopefully today.
2:28
[SPEAKER_00]: We wanted to talk about also, and I can imagine for you, maybe this is a good question before we segue, are you probably in demand these days?
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I can imagine more people as they going practice are having these kinds of experiences.
2:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, in very high demand.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm flooded with clients as true.
2:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
2:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And is it as someone who actually had, you know, spiritual crisis myself, you know, and it can be quite a scary experience actually, do you find that it's people find it's easier to move through it than they expected?
3:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I hope I give them the good tools and the help that they can move through it very quickly.
3:18
[SPEAKER_01]: feel kind of normal again as much as that as possible because you are changed by these experiences forever within a number of months, you know, most of them do.
3:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And particularly if they take the meditations that I give them on board and implement them, then they feel better very quickly.
3:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
3:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
3:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's do what I said.
3:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll come back to this topic.
3:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'd love to ask you first about a book of yours I read.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really enjoyed it.
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Stay way to heaven.
3:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, in that, yeah, exactly.
3:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you write about these stages of consciousness.
4:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd love to kind of unpack that a little bit.
4:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in particular, to our audience, you know, around the kind of sharing
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe even bliss stages, I mean more rarefired, but could you tell us what these stages of consciousness are, first of all?
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are nine stages of consciousness and I have discovered them through observation, but also through reading other stages of consciousness, other authors who discovered some stages of consciousness and I made a completely new model out of them, which brings in what others have discovered, but also what I have observed and I also merged different other models.
4:48
[SPEAKER_01]: and merge it with my own understanding.
4:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we have these nine stages of consciousness.
4:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And the first one is called innocence.
4:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Here, and the person is in a state of la relative happiness.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a few cars.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: There are also very confident.
5:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not plagued by the self-doubt that most of us have on the highest stages of consciousness.
5:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to be an enviable place, but these people are also a black desire and so the lack of desire they're done achieve much.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're usually in a tightly knit family group or plan or tribe or some sort.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And they live a very low, relatively low-key life in relative harmony.
5:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But as I said, they have very little desire, but what they do have is addictive problems.
5:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So if they are exposed to drugs or alcohol, then they're find it very difficult to say no to that.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So because they don't have the defenses in a strength to say no and resist these temptations.
6:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they're experiencing some sort of trauma, or there are for some reason separated from that group and they find themselves alone.
6:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're basically, for the first time ever, their confidence is threatened and they look around and they see, I don't measure up, you know, other people have more, they're a look better, you know, all the stuff that wasn't a problem when you're at the innocent stage, suddenly, you become aware of that.
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And what happens is then a very big rage, you know, people get very angry.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: and very grateful about it, you know, we can just imagine a very angry man who says to another, what are you looking at, you know, because there couldn't, there can't even stand to be looked at, because there's so much shame but also so much aggression.
6:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what we call personality disorders, narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy, that's all people in the dominant stage.
7:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And they want what they want with violence, by any means.
7:15
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have self-restrained.
7:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, they're also getting into a lot of troubles through that maybe even I have to go to prison or get some other repercussions like divorce or something like that.
7:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And divorce is also a problem for the innocence people because lack of self-restrained leads to promiscuity and then affairs.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they might lose their partner and then they're kind of fallout of this harmony and then they have to fan for themselves.
7:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But the positive thing about dominance is that people get finally access to their willpower.
7:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They say, I won't.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And they say it very loudly at the dominant stage.
7:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and, and,
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: They want to pursue their goals, but at the dominant stage, they do it in a very unskilled full way, you know, basically with violence or with criminal means or something.
8:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if they're experienced quite a lot of repercussions of any kind of sort of divorce or prison or other types of punishment, they might move onto the next stage, which we call obedience.
8:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the obedience stage of consciousness, people try to submit to a higher rule or authority.
8:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And we find that, for example, in people who are part of fundamentalist religion, they see the world as a big pyramid, God is at the top, and then the angels, then the priests, and the man, then the women, and the children, and the animal.
8:55
[SPEAKER_01]: they are in movable in this place.
8:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So everybody has their place.
8:59
[SPEAKER_01]: This gives a sense of security, but there's no social mobility if you're born into a lower class family, that's where you stay or your life, you cannot come up in some way.
9:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And here, people are still very angry.
9:13
[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't really, they have repressed the rage from the dominant stage, but they're then projected on some outer enemy.
9:24
[SPEAKER_01]: in the society, you see this all the time, you know, it's the immigrants, it's the Jews, it's the people of different races, so they get scapegoated and that can be very very cruel at this stage, even though there are so-called Christians or part of a religion, they are truly quite cruel, and they're also cruel to themselves, and so they might have, you know, problems with their health or with their mental health,
9:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But they don't even know that because at that stage, mental health is very stigmatized.
9:59
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't talk about it.
10:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And now at that stage, maybe people experience a betrayal, maybe there's church leaders, have affairs or a bezel money, and so they'll lose their face.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Or they have a personal tragedy, a child dies,
10:20
[SPEAKER_01]: then they lose their faith, you know, God, there's no God, otherwise he wouldn't have done that to my child.
10:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they move on to the next stage, which is the Ambition Stage.
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Ambition Stage is the prevalent stage in our normal, in our Western societies.
10:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So this stage is, we have democracy, we have free speech, we have a form of equality, everybody is allowed to achieve and people try to achieve a lot and so therefore, they are also very stressed.
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So in this stage, it's all about status.
11:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I look better, I have my money, I have their higher position and the packing order of some sort.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: A little bit similar to the dominant stage,
11:11
[SPEAKER_01]: people can keep to the rules, and they are also have better principles, for example, democratic understanding of basic equality of people.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But people are very stressed in that state, they are not happy, and they might get a question of what's the meaning of this all, I'm working, working, working, yes, I have the big house, I've got the two cars, and now what,
11:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And if this crisis deepens, then there might go on to yet another stage, which is the sharing stage of consciousness.
11:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And on this sharing stage of consciousness, people very much worship nature.
11:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They love everything that's natural, natural food, natural childbirth, nature, just, you know, in the countryside, it all should be wonderful, and that shouldn't be so much tarmac.
12:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're also very, very friendship very much.
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem on the sharing stage is that people often have a victim mentality.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: They have feel themselves to be scarred, for example, by their upbringing or by any kind of trauma that are experienced or by society that doesn't allow them
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: to thrive, maybe they have a small, let's say, carpenter, business or a small business of some sort, which is economically not viable, because you can't compete with big mass production or something, and then they have some sort of grief and feel like a victim in our society.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And this kind of, at some point, people might feel I've had enough of this victim identity, you know?
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There might be in there for a while and then eventually they say, okay, there must be something better than this.
13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there might move on to the responsibility stage.
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, usually in the during the sharing stage, people have a special awakening or re-awakening.
13:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And the lower stages, innocent dominance, obedience.
13:24
[SPEAKER_01]: People are usually part of the religion in which they're born into, they're down to that.
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the sharing stage, people say, oh, I don't want to be a Christian anymore.
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I go to the East, I become a Buddhist, or Hinduist, or something like that, or Taoist, as all new exciting new possibilities.
13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then when they go to the responsibility stage, they do away with the victim mentality.
13:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And they basically take responsibility for every problem that they have in their life.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a problem.
14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I cost it myself.
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: How do they understand that through the law of karma?
14:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So they really start believing in the law of karma and believe that whatever happens to them
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: that they have caused themselves and they apply that even to things like a genetic disease because they are also believe in previous lives and then they say, okay, I got that, I brought that with me from a previous life.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's nothing basically excluded from this radical self-responsible attitude.
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: The only problem at that stage is that people can be a little bit overconfident.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So they usually start working with the law of attraction that they try to get what the one sort of visualization techniques and then they think I can manifest anything I want very quickly and I can heal my body and I can eat even unhealthy food and it doesn't matter because I can heal myself.
15:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all a little bit overconfident.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: While we can bend reality to our liking, so these types of techniques like the law of attraction, it is only to a degree.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And we also have to accept certain limitations in that.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, overconfidence, there can also come across a little bit uncompassionate.
15:26
[SPEAKER_01]: The might say, well,
15:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You have an illness, clearly, you must have done something wrong.
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And that surely a person who's sick doesn't want to hear that.
15:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not very compassionate and helpful to say things like that.
15:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if the person on the responsibility understands that, then there might move on to the next step, which is the last stage of consciousness.
15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And here, the person really makes loving kindness, spiritual loving kindness, the centerpiece of their life.
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: go around and bless everybody.
16:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They're sent love to everybody.
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There's been many, many hours and meditation doing Buddhist loving kindness meditation.
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be Buddhist, you know, any kind of loving kind is meditation.
16:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And they make that the centerpiece of their life.
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem at this stage, there are not so many problems, but one problem that can occur is that you might at some point feel a little bit that the world is on your shoulders, that you feel a bit grief straightened by all the suffering around you because you feel it very, very keenly.
16:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the person might earn for more special bliss and then they go on to the next stage of consciousness.
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is the bliss stage of consciousness.
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And here people experience themselves basically a free space.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So the limitations that they had before, I am this person, I had this childhood, I'm born into this culture, and I have limitation with all of this.
17:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of that falls away radically.
17:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And the person experience, I'm just basically free space.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I can be who I want to be.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, they get in contact with what the Buddhism we call, the Buddha Nature, which is wisdom, love, this, and which we have all as our own deepest nature.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And they really start to experience that on a regular basis.
17:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And all they want to do is to deepen that,
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: help others to feel that as well.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And now the only problem at this stage is while you are diving deep into your divine nature, all the unresolved issues from your shadow side will come to the surface.
17:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And then suddenly you get rages, where you think I never had that.
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: for that case, where is all that rage coming from?
17:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, now I remember this trauma, oh, this is terrible.
18:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I remember that trauma, that must be for my past life, this can't even be from this life, you know, because I can't remember this.
18:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And so people have to work through this type of shadow work.
18:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they do that diligently and willingly,
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: They basically slowly and gradually move into the last stage of consciousness, which is enlightenment.
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And on the enlightenment stage, a person doesn't experience themselves anymore as their identity as their experience themselves before.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: They're experienced themselves as a divine being, as the divine being of their worship.
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So for example,
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: your own deity that your worship is a partner, partner, partner, partner, partner, from Tibetan Buddhism, then you experience yourself as an embodiment partner, a partner, a partner, and you know, first, it is an internal experience, and gradually others will see that in you as well.
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you can stabilize there, then you have basically
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: of your development?
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
19:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That's rich.
19:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
19:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can feel the kind of frequency of some of these stages as you as you describe them.
19:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I've got loads of questions.
19:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm imagining
19:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've explored different developmental stage theories as well on the podcast before, and you know, you write about this in your book, but I can imagine people feel like, well, in some places in my life, I feel...
19:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I can feel like I'm at the certain stage and in other places I feel like I'm at another stage.
19:57
[SPEAKER_00]: People are quite rich and nuanced and I'm just wondering how you see that that maybe over time things stabilise but that yeah, we can maybe there's compartmentalization or places where we're not quite integrated or yeah, we show up differently.
20:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So just for your listeners, on viewers, I want to say that I assume that people who watch your podcast are most likely on the fourth stage of consciousness, which is ambition, or the fifth, which is sharing, and the sixth, which is responsibility.
20:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the most likely place where there are.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's just say there are the responsibility stage.
20:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they're very self-responsible and they're also very altruistic so they want to work for others, not just after their egotistical status-seeking, and then, you know, but a person like that can also sometimes get a temper tantrum and smash a cup or something.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you add the responsibility stage, if you do something like that, you will afterwards feel very guilty about that, a very regretful, and you say that was terrible, this is not like me, I'm wondering why I did this and maybe you analyze yourself and and you apologize profusely.
21:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you're a true dominance person, which is the second stage, then you would say, well, they're so that coming, didn't they?
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You would actually be pleased with yourself that you'd.
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: that you did this, you would not be sorry.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the difference.
21:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So under stress, we can be grasped to lower stages.
21:45
[SPEAKER_01]: We can also, let's say, a parent dies or you know, you're drawn in family dynamics and then the obedience stage will become more prevalent in you that you feel like in my parents, I have certain duties and I have to work according to what I feel those duties and you get very duty bound, which is stuff
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can fall down into lower stages but again you come back to your predominant stage more easily and then
22:17
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have a wonderful meditation, and you experience yourself with lots of love, and also with even with bliss feelings, then you, for a short moment, you've gone up the stairway of Countess Ness, and then after the meditation, you come back to your normal life, and then you'd say, how to bad, I can't stabilize myself at this high stage, and I want to have this every day, but unfortunately, if you don't.
22:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and I can imagine a lot of people listening, you know, I think a lot of coaching.
22:52
[SPEAKER_00]: people do who listen to this is working at that responsibility stage.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure, and I think there's an include transcendent include.
23:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So ambition and sharing, but I think in a lot of our programs we've talked about this pivotal moment where you start to take full responsibility for your life and the reactions that you have and that it's very easy to kind of subtly start blaming
23:20
[SPEAKER_00]: the world and I catch myself doing that regularly.
23:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think what's changed is how quickly I can catch myself and I think over time as well like the healing and integration work means that there are less and less hooks, you know, less and less places where I get into that kind of
23:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen this in my life, and there's this where the more I've matured, sometimes it's feel like I'm going backwards, you know, because it's like, as you said, like, suddenly shadow, material can start to break through.
24:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I had my spiritual crisis, it felt like going, it felt like I'm backwards, along way, backwards, you know, it's like very disturbing.
24:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
24:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe you could say something about that and like, you know, around this responsibility stage moving into love and to bliss what what's key, you know, what what what what are the key things we need to start to to do really and to to help us stabilize or or develop.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:33
[SPEAKER_01]: To stabilize under responsibility stage specifically.
24:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, we could talk about that and maybe love.
24:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this, you know, you were saying this rare few of people, but moving into love and bliss.
24:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And my sense is, I'm meeting more people who are having, like, deeper spiritual breakthroughs these days.
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
24:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so in the book, I have outlined a few meditations to stabilize ourselves at the highest stages.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for responsibility, stage,
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: which the main practice is mindfulness, you know, to instead of lashing out or being reactive, we sit down and examine our own reactivity and then that way we learn to be self-restrained
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: we also use the law of attraction practices where we visualize our dreams and where we where we say if I can hold my mind step fast on my goal it can manifest and in my own life I've used that a lot of I have come across it for four years ago and I have ever since used that to basically manifest pretty much anything in my life or everything.
25:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I know for my own experience that this works brilliantly.
26:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And but on the lower stages of consciousness, you just don't trust that.
26:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You think, well, you visualise this.
26:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha, this will never work.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you come to the higher stages, you do get more trust.
26:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And you are more willing also to have the discipline to work with that.
26:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, can I jump in and ask you about that whilst you're talking about it?
26:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, I know we were checking in before we hit record and one of my first, but his teachers was Shempen Harkham.
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a bill, a bill of it, a teacher.
26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you also met Shempen.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you were saying her and Riggs in Shikpo were sharing these.
26:46
[SPEAKER_00]: practices on manifestations, so they have buddhist roots to them.
26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you say something about that?
26:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe you came across them earlier?
26:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, you probably know, in the listeners now, that there's lots and lots of books about the law of attractions, hundreds, thousands of books.
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, particularly of an America where they have that as a tradition, you know.
27:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We have that lesson, you know, but in America, they have to have this new sort of mind, which goes to shortly.
27:14
[SPEAKER_01]: 100 years ago, and famous figure of that is Napoleon Hill think and grow rich, something like that.
27:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And after that, hundreds and thousands of authors who wrote about this topic.
27:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So in our Western society, this is very well known.
27:36
[SPEAKER_01]: in the new age type of circles, but in Tibetan Buddhism, it is also known and it's known there as it's called wish practice.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And wish practice basically has the same thing like the law of attraction.
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: If you focus on it, you can get it.
27:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is embedded in a lot of ethics.
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and the ethics is first of all, you need to wish for something that really brings you
28:05
[SPEAKER_01]: that that won't do that and then they have the stories that somebody wants money and then man comes to the door and gives them a shake with that amount of money but as a compensation because there's some just died in the factory and of course that's not what you want it you know and there are lots of the stories you need to be make sure that what you wish for truly is
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: benefit you deeply and and the answer how you can achieve that is by making your wishes in an altruistic way so that you say whatever I want the house, the partner or whatever it is you know that it somehow should be beneficial for the whole world and if it is beneficial for all beings
29:05
[SPEAKER_01]: totally and truly beneficial for you.
29:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's a lot more of a deeper view on what truly brings happiness and a lot of caution to wish for the right things and wish for them in the right way.
29:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And to do that basically, we need to mix our own personal wishes with an
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: that wants to bring happiness to other people too.
29:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So for example, if you wish for a partner, then you say, as a couple, we want to do good for the world together.
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that, this is not so difficult.
29:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if I have a beautiful house, then you say, an abutal garden, then you can say it, open my garden for charities so others can enjoy this too.
30:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you can find,
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: and artistic aspect to every of your personal wishes unless they're truly very selfish, then you can't.
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And but you should not wish for a really selfish things.
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And you should also, for example, not really wish for money because money is only a means to an end.
30:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You should ask yourself, what do I really want with that money?
30:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I want this beautiful house?
30:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I want these travels?
30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I want whatever it is, then wish for that directly?
30:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It implies that somehow you have the means to get that, or maybe somebody gives you this as a gift anyway, so you don't need the money.
30:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's all these kind of teachings around the basic technique of manifesting.
30:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember Champagne saying about this, like, be careful what you wish for, you know?
30:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And she also said, people wish, the things people wish for many different things all the time, conflicting things, you know, and they don't, they don't actually maintain a focus on the most important wishes that they have for themselves, which is, you know, so they're not charging that wish.
31:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, what I want to ask you, because I think,
31:15
[SPEAKER_00]: When I came across spirituality and many people also with Buddhism might say, you know, manifesting things for your health, self like a house or a, you know, that isn't it isn't that kind of
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: that's not what Buddhism is about or spirituality is about.
31:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you say something about okay yeah it's it's important for it to be altruistic and I really appreciate it.
31:37
[SPEAKER_00]: The book you have on manifesting for that.
31:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I recommend people read it and could you say but also we are the important so far is aligning with what we wish for you know that we do want a partner
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's right.
31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So the ultimate wish in Buddhism is to reach enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings.
32:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And you say that before every meditation, you meant to say that.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And you meant to also mean it.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the ultimate wish to unfold your highest potential so that you can help others to do the same thing.
32:17
[SPEAKER_01]: However,
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Apart from this ultimate wish, we also need to eat and to live somewhere, right?
32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have to work in a lousy job in a very stressful environment And if you are sick, and we haven't got a nice house, which is quite enough to do meditation Then all that becomes difficult.
32:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is completely legitimate to wish for stuff
32:48
[SPEAKER_01]: to live the life in which you then can meditate and pursue the path of a towards enlightenment.
32:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and that's part of the part where it's also a human companionship, so to want a partner.
33:06
[SPEAKER_01]: to under family, you know, to help the children to grow up and help them, that's the body sufferer path.
33:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So all the things, the ordinary things that we normally need in life, a home, a partner, family, good work, a work that is appreciated by others, meaning well paid, but the point is it's appreciated so that you're not just doing good stuff and everybody treats you
33:34
[SPEAKER_01]: As if this is worthless and so then you work yourself into the ground because you're not getting enough money for it, so that you can live for it.
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that is completely compatible with the ultimate wish for enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings.
33:52
[SPEAKER_00]: that's really helpful.
33:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Where do you see people going wrong with these wishes?
34:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think there's a common way that people do it where it doesn't work so well?
34:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so on the ambition stage and the main wrong wish that people have status, they
34:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And somehow you need to be up and be superior and you need to avoid being down.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever it means for you, you know?
34:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And you believe if I have this success and I'm up and I get the PhD title and I look amazing and in some way I'm better and have higher status than others that will bring me happiness.
34:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's actually the way I understand this,
34:49
[SPEAKER_01]: animal nature, you know, because animals, mammals live in packing orders.
34:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And then need to be up and need to avoid to be down on this packing orders.
34:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so as human beings, we still do that.
35:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if we meet somebody, we compare ourselves, hmm, in my map, are you down?
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's good.
35:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, it's the other way around.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That's bad.
35:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And now if you're bad about myself,
35:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's normal feelings everybody has that and but this is also where we go most wrong, you know, because happiness and enlightenment doesn't come from status.
35:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Happiness and enlightenment comes from love from being from loving relationships in your family life and also in your work life, you know,
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: partner, but you still what you do needs to be done with this kind of loving wish to benefit this person.
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have that, you know, you will find true fulfillment and no status can ever give you this.
36:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That's super helpful.
36:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we could go back to, you know, you were talking about the practices that help people stabilize at lay to stages.
36:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking, you know, maybe moving from that responsibility to love stage.
36:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I know a practice I've had is like blessing people, you know, I was given just like see the highest potential in people and bless people.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so for the responsibility level, we have manifesting mindfulness and also the greatfulness exercise to be profoundly grateful for everything that you have and basically genuinely be able to let go of the complaining and the blaming and the you know the winging and all of that because you are truly grateful.
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And then on the love stage of consciousness, it's basically meditating on loving kindness.
37:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And in Buddhism, we have beautiful meditations for that.
37:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You send love to yourself.
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You send love to your enemies.
37:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You send love to the neutral person.
37:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So the person that you feel nothing about, the shop assistant or the taxi driver.
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And...
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: and then you send love to your village, to your country, to the whole world.
37:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And you just do that for hours and hours and hours either in retreat or every day.
37:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And it will establish you on the love stage of consciousness.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have, you know, once done a retreat like this on loving kindness.
37:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And they had profound impact on me.
37:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really, really beautiful.
37:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And the bliss stage of consciousness, you know, there are various methods, really there, but you know, there isn't really a true method to come to the bliss stage.
38:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The bliss is more a fruition of what you've done before.
38:03
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've done, you know, if you do gratefulness, you manifest your dreams, you know, it's a lot of love.
38:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Naturally, you will become happy.
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you then focus on that feeling.
38:15
[SPEAKER_01]: itself.
38:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It will spread and you get into a more and more profound states of social bliss.
38:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's not something that you can actually reach for the techniques more fruition that comes by itself.
38:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And then from the bliss stage of consciousness, if you do that long enough, you at some point spontaneously arise as the deity, you will find yourself to be the deity of your
38:44
[SPEAKER_01]: There might, in Tibetan Buddhism, there do what is called deity yoga, but you visualize yourself as the deity to help this process along.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The danger with that practice is that it can really foster mechlamania, that people who have grandiose tendencies say, yes, yes, I am Guru Pachea, I am Waitara, you need to worship me now.
39:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is of course a big trap, you know, so we have to avoid that.
39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So I teach more of the parts where this happens more spontaneously.
39:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
39:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Something, this reminds me of something I read in your book about where you said like one of the most efficacious practices.
39:26
[SPEAKER_00]: The best practices is to kind of resonate or connect to somebody who embodies
39:34
[SPEAKER_00]: the quality that you'd like to embody yourself.
39:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Could you say something about that practice?
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so this would be a devotional practice.
39:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And contrary, what most people believe about Buddhism, a devotional practices are actually seen as the fastest way to enlightenment.
39:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of people think, yeah, Buddhism doesn't know any days and they just do all the work themselves, they're just meditate on their meditation cushion, but that's only part of Buddhism.
40:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And Tibetan Buddhism really very much have also the devotional past and it's seen as the superior past.
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: The only problem is that many of us are not devotional by nature, particularly if you have a lot of education and if
40:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I need the emotional tendency in U.S. been shredded in the rational analysis of a reality then it's a little bit hard to get back to that, you know, and so for those of us who are not very devotional, we need to do more work on the meditation cushion, but if you have any kind of
40:47
[SPEAKER_01]: A tendency towards that, you know, you should try to focus on this and develop this and really try to have a personal relationship with your own higher power, or whatever name you call them, that's completely fine, and spend time in prayer and in communion with them, and the more you can do that, that will be the fastest path.
41:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So would you advocate them people how would you advocate people to develop a devotional relationship with a like a higher self or a guide or like just start praying and contacting speaking to them more?
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be one way.
41:35
[SPEAKER_01]: In my personal practice the way I work with my clients
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't have this devotional tendency or talent anymore, you know.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I'm saying to them is imagine your deity or your higher power as a small figure.
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: As a light figure in your heart, in your chest, and imagine that light writes, radiates out into your body and all around you as if giving you a hug.
42:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my standard practice that I teach.
42:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is also a Tibetan Buddhist practice.
42:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would have done in my work, I have summarized and simplified some Tibetan Buddhist practices to make them more accessible to the general public.
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So taking out a lot of the ritual, the jargon, but the essence I have very much preserved and teach that in that way to help people who are not having the karma to be a Tibetan Buddhist,
42:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Tibetan Buddhism can be a bit strange.
42:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to share my experience a little bit here, because I think it could be a nice springboard to talk about, to ask some questions, and I kind of alluded to it before, and I'm not making any,
42:57
[SPEAKER_00]: claims about my stage of consciousness.
43:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think some of the things you've shared really reflect a journey have been on.
43:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and I, because I think my move is into a conversation about spiritual crisis and what to do in those moments, because I think more, I see more people
43:17
[SPEAKER_00]: going through this too, so I've shared this story on the podcast before, but I was doing to bear in tantric practice and energy work, and I was a father of a new baby, and then the pandemic hit, and just everything, I could feel myself starting to cut, you know, and one morning I went out for a walk, and I felt something like rip at the top of my head, and then this kind of
43:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, went back to my wife and I was like, what, how'll just happen?
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And from there, like over the next weeks, I went through a process of, you know, like,
44:00
[SPEAKER_00]: dissolving, like everything deconstructed and dissolved and there was a lot of energy in my body moments when everything dissolved into a void and through contact with spiritual teachers and embodied support and move through that.
44:18
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I'm sharing is because then I start to experience these like states of well-being.
44:24
[SPEAKER_00]: that were profound.
44:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I would just be sad on the couch, you know, and to, you know, if I'm honest, there was a little bit when I like when I used to take ecstasy when I was a, you know, I'd like just have this love, this bliss in my heart or in my belly, and I'd just be, and, you know, it kind of integrated, but now I've noticed in my journey, it violates in and out.
44:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, some more often in these days, and
44:51
[SPEAKER_00]: and devotion has become really important to me.
44:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is gets to another question.
44:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just layering a few things in and I'll see where you take it.
45:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I used, when I was more exclusively Buddhist, what I liked about Buddhism was it was like, your means of your own liberation is in your own hands, but I got to a point where I was like, there's this,
45:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I just thought I'd pray, you know, prayer became, and I was like, I just don't want to do it all myself, you know, and I started praying for support and for grace and the sweetness that came through was just profound.
45:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder for you if you see that being, you know, what's my question here, I'm not asking about where I'm at, but it's more like, are there commonalities that you see from people who go through spiritual crises and what's supportive to those people in those moments?
45:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, I do see very much the commonalities.
45:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the main work that I'm doing.
46:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And so commonly, this kind of special crisis is known as Kundalini awakening.
46:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't personally like that word so much because it might some people are afraid of the Kundalini and think it's a snake lying in your abdomen somewhere.
46:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And and I've come up with the Kundalini test.
46:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody can do that.
46:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You can just go to my website.
46:26
[SPEAKER_01]: put your name in there and you get the Kundalini test.
46:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm also going to say it here now.
46:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's just five criteria.
46:33
[SPEAKER_01]: The first one is, when you have a Kundalini awakening or a special awakening, first of all, your interest as virtual spirituality becomes much more intense.
46:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It becomes the absolute center point of your life.
46:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Might have been already before the awakening, but it becomes even more intense afterwards.
46:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're, so I'm sure you would not you had that's correct.
46:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that you experienced so as well.
47:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And then your emotions get intensified.
47:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not just getting fear.
47:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll get terror.
47:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's just having a bit depressed.
47:12
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you have terrible existential despair.
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, lots of
47:18
[SPEAKER_01]: intense emotions and with that it goes also and much intensified sensitivity.
47:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You go into a room you say the vibrations so bad I have to go out immediately.
47:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This is terrible.
47:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't stand this or I could feel these other persons thoughts and feelings.
47:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure it was them but I'm pretty sure.
47:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you go into a church and you say oh the vibrations so beautiful.
47:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in a bliss state, you know, so this extreme sensitivity and and then you also have energy movement in your in your body which you also said something ripped off from your skull and then a terror descended so you felt this tangibly as a kind of energy and people have that done a lot.
48:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So what before the Kundalini awakening is maybe a lump of that meat apart from maybe sexual arousal
48:12
[SPEAKER_01]: certainly becomes a whirling of water.
48:16
[SPEAKER_01]: place of energy going up and down and damming up in certain places and making blocks and then dissolving into sweetness and necked streams of neckters flowing through your being so you can have these experiences and then for a lot of people they also get paranormal experience, you know, they get more clairvoyant, they might see beings and they are
48:46
[SPEAKER_01]: the divine beings become more real so the bacteria, the devotion becomes much easier because you don't experience.
48:56
[SPEAKER_01]: your higher power is whatever a statue or a picture from somebody who lived a few thousand years ago, you know, they become a living presence to you.
49:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that makes devotion much easier.
49:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And these are the five criteria really.
49:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And when they all come together, then I would classify that
49:22
[SPEAKER_00]: what can people do to help move through that process?
49:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that's like you said that's the core of the work you do.
49:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there specific things that people can do?
49:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, obviously reaching out to you, doing work with you.
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you allow me, I use you as an example.
49:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you'd come to me with your crisis, tell or descending into your body.
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So then I would have
49:49
[SPEAKER_01]: or terror, do you feel?
49:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And you might have said, Nile, okay.
49:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And nine out of ten.
49:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And so very bad.
49:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I would have said, then I would have told you the anti-exit technique, which has four stages.
50:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we just described it all of our books for anybody who wants to
50:11
[SPEAKER_01]: find out how that works and then you would then I would practice this with you for five minutes and after the five minutes you would be from nine mostly let's say down to six or five and then I would practice another five minutes together and then you would be two and a half so because it's working very very fast then I would say to you that's great you can do it.
50:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you practice this every day.
50:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't expect you to get the results quite as fast as we do it together, but you can do that.
50:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And then within weeks, you would be from nine down to at least five probably lower within months, you would be.
50:57
[SPEAKER_01]: a three or two depending on how diligently you practice, and then you can have all the deconstructions of reality.
51:05
[SPEAKER_01]: You would find that amusing.
51:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You would find that interesting.
51:08
[SPEAKER_01]: If the anxiety is out of the question, you can look at all of the picture, then you can look at all these spiritual deconstruction or whatever happens with curiosity, with amusement.
51:23
[SPEAKER_01]: and you would go home to your wife and would say, you don't believe what I experienced today.
51:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I see the nature of reality now.
51:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not what it seems, and when it's all not terrifying anymore.
51:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just take the negative emotions out, everything else becomes easy.
51:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that really really resonates because I've had that where you have certain phenomena and if things exist there, it's like, oh, but if you're feeling the wellbeing and the bliss, it doesn't, it's completely different.
51:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, that's really helpful.
52:01
[SPEAKER_00]: What would you say is the, the, the, the,
52:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably very unique to every person, but do you think deepening into a awakening is about, disconnecting from life and living in a monastery or is it becoming more and more functional in the world, more and more loving and connected and intimate and human?
52:26
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been an inquiry I've had with friends, and people
52:30
[SPEAKER_00]: rejecting these days more it seems like a kind of transcendent view of reality which labels earthly things as in the way of our fulfillment and awakening.
52:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so Tibetan Buddhism gives us a very clear answer to that.
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: The household alive is superior for reaching enlightenment.
52:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good answer, right?
52:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's great.
52:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you like it.
53:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know,
53:05
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean if your man go nanda, that's wrong or that you're disadvantaged.
53:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's just say in the Buddhist context, if you're nanda on monk, you know, everybody gives your reverence, everybody falls the hand in the master and bows to you and you're not getting challenged.
53:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you live at home with your partner and your children, your ego and your
53:32
[SPEAKER_01]: your wife becomes your your guru basically she tells you now today you're very rompier again yeah that was very selfish of you and then your ego goes oh how does she criticize me no in a minute I need to be patient here and compassionate and so you have so ample space for practicing out of this because quite honest to get bliss in the meditation this isn't
53:58
[SPEAKER_01]: even that difficult, you know, this can be taught actually quite quickly to people to maintain compassion and view in the face of provocation, that's harder.
54:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And from that we need the household life.
54:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't, you know, and there we can learn this much better, particular with children.
54:27
[SPEAKER_01]: to drive us to distraction because then we will give them a boundary and then need the boundary.
54:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and therefore there will test the boundary every day of their life, at least most children do.
54:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, to do that, to fulfill this parenting role in the compassionate, but
54:50
[SPEAKER_01]: not a less-if-fair way, you know, just do what you want, but really educate and bring up the child properly with boundaries.
54:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this is quite a task and in a fantastic body suffer training, I think.
55:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I completely agree, it's really, it's the ultimate training because just as you think you've got it, then they change or it's different, so it's like you can never rest.
55:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, how do you see the times we find ourselves in, where it feels like we're in the level of uncertainty,
55:31
[SPEAKER_00]: feel so palpable, maybe we're waking up to how things were always so uncertain, but we just didn't see it.
55:38
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, certainly right now, you know, do you feel like these are even, because I've noticed that in me, it's like I've had to meet parts of myself, and so it feels like a gift, you know, these times, and I'm privileged, I'm not living in a war zone or something, so, you know, it's easy for me to say that, but how do you see these times?
55:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I am a determined optimist.
56:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we never had it better than now.
56:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I think these are the best times ever.
56:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, I'm 65 now.
56:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So from when I was young, children were still, you know, different races, disabled children.
56:23
[SPEAKER_01]: gay people all the lot were terribly discriminated against.
56:28
[SPEAKER_01]: When you look how much loving kindness there is, particularly let's say I live in the UK, I think the UK is a particularly compassionate country, you know, compared to my home country which is Germany or other countries that I know of well, you know, so much compassion, so much help for everybody, so much effort
56:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is quite wonderful and also through the internet now so many people getting access to this special teachings that there would have never touched touch with the barge ball before but now you scroll through your YouTube or whatever and then you come across about this and that and you know deep breathing or what to do about toxic
57:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And then somehow it just, you know, it educates you.
57:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It educates you in a spiritual and psychological way.
57:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So people develop in an unprecedented speed.
57:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see that, you know, the last 20 years in my counseling practice, a very important aspect is self-love.
57:46
[SPEAKER_01]: People need to kind of be compassionate with yourself.
57:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to teach this a lot less,
57:52
[SPEAKER_01]: 30 years ago, you know, self-love, that was blasphemy, that was embarrassing, you wouldn't, you just didn't do that, you know, and people suffered so much.
58:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But now, most people know self-love is a good thing, we shouldn't be so hard on yourself.
58:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I can see human kind developing, and I also see that people getting nicer and friendly,
58:20
[SPEAKER_01]: every year, you know, and maybe not everybody will agree with me, and maybe this is just my personal experience, but I certainly see that, you know, times are getting better and better.
58:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't matter, that doesn't mean there isn't a war in various places in the world, but there are always have been wars, you know, and there always have been developments where people are trying to
58:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And as we can see in America now, you know, very conservative movement, you know, yes, there's always a discussion in that, but this is, we are going forward in a positive way that is what I perceive.
59:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you, you know, you may not feel like this is the right way to frame it, but I don't know if it's either, but I see some teachers talking about how we're in the midst of, you know, that there's a coming kind of breakthrough in consciousness coming, you know, where we will.
59:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, love will break through, not a love which is opposed to fear, but which can include fear and but yeah, do you see something like that happening?
59:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I do, you know, as I've just described, you know, through the internet, people who would have never gone to a workshop on shadow work, let's say, and then I go and do this shadow work on YouTube.
59:53
[SPEAKER_01]: and the students for 21 years, you know, and then I think, what are you doing shadow work for, you know?
1:00:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, it was on YouTube.
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they opened themselves up to these dimensions.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have seen this acceleration of special wisdom and psychological development, definitely since the internet is there.
1:00:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, we forget the internet has only been there
1:00:23
[SPEAKER_01]: before we were in the dark ages, you know.
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember those days very well, I was 40 when the internet came, you know, before we were lonely because there was no forum and which you could go and chat with other people, there's no Facebook and giving comments and,
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_01]: connecting with other people and you know you were sitting at home you might get a phone call or you were ready for and that was that you know you could watch a bit of telling but you didn't have all this this way of connecting to others like we have now this is just so much change it's so absolutely wonderful.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah that's
1:01:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I find it amazing too, not only the creativity of what happens when all these different communities start connecting and new ideas and projects emerge out of that, and I came across your work through the leading edge, and that's an example of a community that's come together
1:01:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I see more of those kinds of things popping up.
1:01:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're getting close to our time, Tara.
1:01:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just wonder if there's anything you would like to share to our listeners, you know, you've shared so much already, but there's so many anything that comes up for you that feels important to share as we move to a closing.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so basically just by reading the books,
1:02:10
[SPEAKER_01]: um you can determine quite easily on what stage of consciousness you are and you will also from that know very easily without a lot of pressure and a lot of effort know what's the next step is in your life it will basically evolve and you just from reading the book so I had that feedback
1:02:31
[SPEAKER_01]: many times that it it helps you to have a compassion understanding of yourself, a compassionate understanding about the world, and maybe you can even join me in my optimistic view of the world development.
1:02:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I know not many people do, but it's definitely a better place to be rather than perceiving doom and gloom around you at the whole time.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not just because I'm a fluffy person and just want to see everything positive.
1:03:01
[SPEAKER_01]: The framework from which I say that is because I can see that our societies as the whole, as a whole, are moving up this area of heaven, you know.
1:03:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know,
1:03:15
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, you can see the signs and symptoms of that.
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is a real evidence for that.
1:03:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just a nice feeling that I have.
1:03:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to experience that true, just read the book and I hopefully this will invoke and you effortlessly a more compassionate, liberating and optimistic view of yourself in the world.
1:03:39
[SPEAKER_00]: beautiful.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And I recommend people go to your website as well.
1:03:43
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of resources there.
1:03:46
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your website address?
1:03:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Taurusbringat.com.
1:03:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
1:03:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Tara, thanks so much.
1:03:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Really happy to share this with our community.
1:03:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Jo, I'll come.
1:03:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me.
1:04:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we are.
1:04:01
[SPEAKER_00]: We're at the end of the podcast.
1:04:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a heads up again.
1:04:04
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not on our mailing list and you want to stay in the loop about other things we create, then head to coaches rising dot com put your name in the sign up box there.
1:04:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll also find some of our other offerings online trainings for coaches there and just want to end by wishing you well and I'll see you again next time.