Latest / ninetyfive / In Conversation with James Francis | Creativity, consistency & finding your own voice

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In Conversation with James Francis | Creativity, consistency & finding your own voice · ninetyfive

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's a rapper inspired by Dave, but he's also classically trained and a true 100%er.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're getting to know James Francis.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: The first time I tried to do that, I listened to Good Kid Man City and listened to sing about me dying first and was like, why is the song 12 minutes?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we're here with the legend, the rapper, producer, musician, editor, graphic designer, music commentator.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot, it's a lot.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: I've said a lot, I've said a lot already, but for anyone who doesn't know you, what do you want to be known for?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: What do I want to be known for?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just being a creative person, I guess.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: I do a lot of things, obviously, music, graphic design.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I feel like trying to learn through the process and being a creative through line through all of that stuff.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: So artists.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: A little bit of that.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: All creative outlets.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: All creative outlets.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we obviously know you're classically trained.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: So how does the classical music come into your music today?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um, especially in terms of music theory, like when it comes to music production, um, like all of the all the music theory I internalize from all my classical training.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think also in terms of like arranging songs, like a lot of the times in classical, especially in like sonata forming classical music, like it's very sectional.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it really helped me think about hierarchy like when when it comes to song arranging.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's also when you do a lot of different creative practices, like it just allows your brain to do different, like it allows your brain to do different stuff to like connect like disparate ideas to each other.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: I guess because you do a lot of music kind of critiquing and reviews and stuff, and you break songs down to molecular levels.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that that has got a like from that musical training.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you did like transcripts and stuff as well.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did transcription for a bit.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was fun.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was mainly mainly a lockdown, but I think yeah, a lot of the critique stuff I do is pulling is pulling from that and now after spring.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: We live in a time where like it's easy to do like hot takes or like to critique stuff, but the way that you the way that you analyze music is actually super interesting because you there's that you're not hot headed for one, it's not clickbaity, it's like very measured, but it's also like justified and like there's rationale behind it, and you can explain why things are the way that they are or they're not.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously there's your own opinion and perspective in there as well, but I think it's a very it's a fine line to be able to like provide an objective and criticism not I feel like it's associated with negativity, it's not negativity, but to be able to do what you do and it be well received is uh is very impressive.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So well done doing some good stuff.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's difficult.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think um yeah, like you said, I'm always writing a line of like nuance, especially in short form, it's really easy to like dumb down a really complex idea and like completely gut all the nuance from it.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um, but at the same time, I don't want every time to make it super long as you know just to counteract that.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's always a balance of like what information is worth keeping whilst also keeping the nuance.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, obviously, we've talked about your commentary of other people, but you, as we said at the start, are an artist and you embody all of the facets of that.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we we we know that you've spoken about like psychodrama being one of your like earliest discoveries of like an album and Dave being one of your main sort of like inspirations.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we wanted to ask, like, what is it about him and maybe that album in particular that was like I want to do this as well.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um I think uh yeah, Dave was for me, like I'd listened to Kendrick, obviously, um especially through my older brother, because my older brother is also an artist, um, but I hadn't really delved into Kendrick's discography yet.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first time I tried to do that, like I listened to Good Kid Mad City and listened to Sing About Me Dying of Thirst, and was like, why is the song 12 minutes?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh yeah, and then at the time I was in um I was in the production space, like especially in like the Christian hip-hop space, doing a lot of production.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and psychodrama was the first like concept rap album that I sat down and internalized.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of it was UK context, um, but also I think part of it is because Dave is fantastic at wordplay, but he's also super accessible in terms of his storytelling, um, in a way that because sometimes people can be complex and it can make you feel dumb for not getting the pattern.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Too much overwhelming, like too much, yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially like for an entry-level person, I think at that early stage, like Dave validated for me like, oh, like I can storytell, number one, and also two, I can tell a narrative that's outside of just one song.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and for me that was just like such a mind-blowing concept because all the music I grew up on is not really concept albums, like outsiders, um, outside of like miseducation of Lauren Hill.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, outside of that, I hadn't really heard like a rap concept album with a narrative.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: We've listened to your like latest release, the 2023, and on your 23rd.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Happy belated.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we can we can definitely hear that Dave influence kind of come in.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else you kind of want to speak to that song in terms of a breakdown?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like for a lot of the other birthday songs, since I've done a couple, yeah.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I produced the beat ages ago and then I adapted it for what I was doing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think this was the first time I went in being like, I want to produce this type of thing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um I also wanted it to be more like confessional than some of my other birthday stuff, because I think a lot of the other stuff was very hype for me at the time.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but maybe not as confessional.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think I really wanted it to be like like hit more personal than some of the other ones that I've done.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it definitely feels like kind of a marker in the ground.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that that's your first release since like 20 well on on like DSP since like 2024, right?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's looking forward to like kind of what's what's coming, man.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man, that's it's a very very accomplished song.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's yeah, I have yeah, very much enjoy it listening to it.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So big up, man.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Big up.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, we spoke about just now as po uh releasing on DSPs, but obviously, so much of nowadays the promotional side of things is like social media, as we all know.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um in 2024, you posted every single day online.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we were saying before, like it's easy to speak about the premise of just post every day, just post every day.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: But what did you actually learn by by by doing that?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and just just your posting every day isn't it wasn't regular, isn't it?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a nerd for fonts, and the fonts were clean.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um it wasn't just you kind of just talking to the camera and that's it.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: There was like a lot behind it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that whole year was such a learning process.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, I think in retrospect, a lot of it made me think about in terms of people talk about like building a personal brand.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the posting every day for a year was it made me realize like so much of content is identity formation in terms of communicating the essence of who you are at like at its core.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a lot of that is being honest with yourself with who you are.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and especially because I was posting every day, it was really hard to not be honest when you're documenting like every day of your life for a year.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think it really pushed me to be more honest in my content and and more honest in the way that I come across.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you try and like if you try and convolute yourself through like, oh, I'm gonna have distance between who I am and the way that I present myself, it's just gonna come across as inauthentic.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I feel like that was really the main takeaway, and also like the consistency of like constantly sharpening my skills like as the year went on.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Such a good way of thinking about it.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes people think, oh, maybe my opinion's too too niche, so I'll I'll shy away from sharing sharing that 30%.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in that, everyone has like those smaller things that they think are niche and specific until someone else shares it and you're like, oh, I can really relate to that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like it's actually such a nice way of like you you think that you might be speaking to nobody, but it's probably such a swell of people that are like, oh my gosh, I feel exactly the same.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you classically train, so you have an analytical brain, listen to a lot of music, have a lot of perspectives.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: How does that all of all of that like impact the process of making your own music as James Francis?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been really interesting.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um because yeah, the analysis stuff, it kind of came by accident.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I mainly started doing it because I wanted to teach myself like what are the things I value in other artists that I can take away and internalize in my music process.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was posting every day, my initial plan was I'm just gonna post my music and something's gonna blow, and then that's it.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I realized if I do this for a calendar year, I'm gonna burn out.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna like document the process a little bit more.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then a lot of that turned into turned into commentary.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I feel like um those videos, um, as much as they're still for other people, they're mainly for myself.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, it's clarifying for myself, like what are my values in the music that I'm creating and like why doesn't this land for me?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that helps me to communicate better like my vision as an artist because I remember it was there's something uh baby king said in the in the beginning of Casino of like I'm not for everybody.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um I think that's super important of like you you clarify who you are like identity-wise as an artist by going, I like this and I also don't like these other things.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not like to put a value judgment on like what's good and what's bad, it's to go, I'm defining that this is who I am, and I think it it helps to make clearer decisions rather than being like more wishy-washy with like your end goal.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, what what was the moment when you were creating where you thought this is who I am and this is worth something?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm not sure it ever like coalesced into one moment where I was like, I get it, man.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it, I've cracked the code.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've cracked the code.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think um I think when um when I was about halfway through the year, I definitely had like a mindset shift.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I think well, those two points.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So the first one was when I hit 10k followers on Instagram, that was like two months into posting every day, and I was like, I can do this.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the time before that was um very early before that, Rhapsody um like posted one of my videos on a story, and I was like, okay, like if I just like stay consistent, um, then I can really lock that in.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then crazy cosign, by the way.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was so mad, it was so mad that that was such a a chance thing.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I think um a couple years prior, I did some graphic design stuff, um, and she DM'd me about it and was like, this looks really sick.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I did a freestyle basically, because at that point I was just like, Well, I didn't really have a lot to lose.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also just like, I just need to talk about the things that I like.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I did a freestyle basically saying to Rhapsody, like, I really appreciate XYZ.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then yeah, she put it on the story and was like, this is really sick.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I think at that time I was just like, I can actually do this.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and then the second time I think was when I was around 50, 60k.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like at that point I was in a bit of a rut um with myself.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think pushing through that, there was like a couple of weeks where I was just like, I'm so ready to quit this.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like pushing through that, um, I think it really helped clarify for me of just like one, like how thicker metrics can be often, um, and two, that like the identity formation is like never reaches a front.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're constantly evolving.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy to say like that you're you thought that you were in a rut, because uh seeing like there's the trajectory that you've you've been on, it feels like it just rocketed, so it's crazy.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you're 23 now.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um we saw we saw on one of your reels you said kind of once speaking of metrics, one of your goals is to kind of hit a million followers and let's go, man, let's go.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: You got this.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: So beyond the numbers, like what would success look like you to you at the end of the year?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I feel like putting out this project and just being happy with the process of it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think, yeah, definitely at the beginning of the year, I was very goal-oriented.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like less so now.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I'm I'm also enjoying the process of just like making music again.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think um the the one thing that I missed in 2024 from posting all the time was I wasn't really writing because I was spending so much time filming and editing.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I feel like in the last two years I've scaled a bit back on the content to get back to making music, which has been so so fun.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, the main thing for me is just like to get at the end of the rollout and be like, I'm happy that this is in the project.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: It exists, yeah.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's sick, man.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for your time.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna let you get upstairs to the studio what you're working on today.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm mainly gonna do a listener session for this project for um some of my audience.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna sick.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So is it is the project complete?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Almost.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like 99% there.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, love it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, man, it's been a pleasure.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Have a good one.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Love, man.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: See you soon.