Latest / I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth / I Hate Soccer #120 - René Meulensteen, from Manchester United to the World Cup

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I Hate Soccer #120 - René Meulensteen, from Manchester United to the World Cup · I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: When people ask me what my favorite episode of this podcast is, I usually just give them like the Tom Brady answer.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: The next one, the next one's my favorite.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm probably gonna say that the one with Renee Muhlenstein is probably my favorite because this is a surreal moment.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Back when he was with Manchester United and assisting Sir Alex Ferguson, I would watch these videos on YouTube called Code Red.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it was basically just him talking about technique, technique development.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it really shaped me as a coach when I was about 20 years ago when I when I was an up-and-coming coach trying to figure it all out.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a surreal moment that during the North American Summit Current Expo, I spent three days with him, all in all, probably six to eight hours with him over the weekend.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um he just recently finished the World Cup.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um he was coaching with um Iraq, the Iraqi national team, uh last World Cup in Qatar.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: He was a member of the Qatari um national team staff, and he just took a um a position to be the uh director of football methodology uh at Stockport County, which is I believe they're in the uh the first division.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're the first division, and um uh we just we just get into it.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: We get into just player development.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hundred percent about player development, and it's a treat, it's a coaching education, and I hope that you guys enjoyed enjoy it as much as I did.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I hate soccer, no problem at all.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad because I was kind of like bummed, but then you were still here.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I thought you left.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when you started walking in, I'm like, oh thank God.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then because I just wanted to sit with you.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even necessarily care to uh have you on, I just wanted to sit with you more, yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Even outside of the camp.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that was good because those those informal these informal little chats, you know, they go they can go any direction.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, you know what I mean.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then that was nice when Ian turned up at the end.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, and he joined in, so that was really good.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I we can get into everything that we already talked about this weekend.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was thinking about it between Thursday, Friday, and not today, or actually it was Friday, Saturday, and today.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna spend like eight hours with you.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And like I told you, I used to watch those code red YouTube videos on uh uh on Manchester United when you were there, and I would just watch them over and over and over again.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just you talking about technique, and I asked you a question the other day do you think that like technique is kind of neglected or passed through?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I have young coaches ask me for advice, they're like, I want to coach at the U15 and up level.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to work on the grassroots stuff, I don't want to work on, I don't want to have to work on technique.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're kind of microwaving this process.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's not like how that's not how I came up.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I came up coaching U6 and then all the way to and eventually professionally on the women's side, you know.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, how or why do you think it's neglected?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Globally.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: You think it's global?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the ones that are maybe not as bad, that it's more of a cultural thing than anything else.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: As we all know, if you look at the South, South American, Latin countries, they've got this natural feel for technique.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Technique is part of the game, part of the culture.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: They they wherever they are, whether it's on the beach in Copacabana, they want to, you know, they want to show off, they want to show their skills.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's always been been part of their culture.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: But um where the countries in the world rely on on really um really uh proper skill development training um has been has been really neglected all over the world because for whatever reason, if they haven't put invested in it, there's not uh not enough skills development coach instructors that can you know uh uh develop uh specialized skills coaches.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I go back to my own journey and and when Manchester United came knocking in 2001, it was purely because they couldn't find a technical coach in England.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: In England.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So then eventually because of the context that came to me, and when I when I started there at Manchester United and started implementing it, it it was a for many coaches because I had to educate the coaches as well, because you know I can only do be in one place at one time, so you need to try to get as many coaches, you know, doing what you do so you can spread your wings, you know, as far as you can.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: So all those development coaches had to be educated to making sure that they did the right program.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, so Alex Ferguson played a massive, massive role in this, by the way, to take all the resistance away.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because at one point he brought all the coaches together at Carrington and he said, Let me explain why I bring Rene in.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's because he can do something that none of you can do.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you guys to really buy into what he has to to offer to the club because you know he's gonna create a different edge for us.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and since then it was it made because you know when when somebody comes in with new ideas and there is a change, you've got always those people that have you know those head scratches before they actually really see how it works on the back end, but they've already they already start criticizing right from the start without knowing what how where it's going to lead to.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I created all those repetitive exercises.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, but yeah, but you know what I mean.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to skill development is putting building blocks in place and you build, you add constantly, you know, to the to their uh to their repertoire.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: But when they got it, eventually when they got it, and when they start seeing that everything started to come off in these small-sided games, players, parents, they all started to get excited.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because it takes a while, because it's not something like you do, you train, you get you get a group of kids, and you you're adding, you're adding a move, and then you know, two weeks later, two weeks later they are technically sufficient.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, they're not.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: It takes months, it takes a year.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: But when you've got that foundation right, you can really build quickly.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, the first the first sort of three months introduction, and then it's it's reinforcing the same things, then adding new things.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So by after one year, especially two years, so I always say six to nine.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: About six years is when they cross the line, you know, from home to the club.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we know, we both know, possibly people people have heard of it, but uh a good friend of mine, Tom Bayer, he's very big on football stars at home.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I support that program massively.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all the bulb and appellation things, the fast feed stuff.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: The more they do that, the better they are equipped when they cross the line.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: But then they need coaches, specialized technical skill development coaches, that can take that a step further.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, between six and nine, massive window.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then from nine to twelve is a massive window because that is where they they're gonna they're gonna try to put it into place in all the small side of games.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Here there's a war on technical trainers and one-on-one individual small group trainers outside of club, because I don't know if it's ego or people are hurt because they're seeking outside help uh for their development, because our clubs don't train enough to be able to really focus on skill development, individual skill development.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: They want to teach, they want to teach team tactics, they want to teach pep tactics, they want to teach the full 11v11 game, they rush, they rush teams.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: They'll at 12 years old make them play 11v11.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what are we doing?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, and then you're attacking anybody that does get individual work, and the big knock is, well, there's no defender.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen a lot of your stuff.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of your stuff, you don't always have a defender.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, it's just you, it's just a player, ball to player ratio is one to one.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it's that's again the sequence, it's against building blocks because people players first.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Players first, and that is the problem where globally that the there's a lack, there's a lack of know-how, you know, the ideas behind skill development.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Secondly, people don't understand the structure because where do you start?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do you progress, and where does it need to lead to?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that is that is what you need to know.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the most important thing we have to start with is that players first need to master the ball before they can dominate the opponent.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's common sense.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't dominate the ball, if you still if you put pressure too early, too much of an opponent, he will have no success.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Skill development is all about repetition and kids experiencing success success.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: They have to have success, they have to have a level of success, and as soon as they got that, then you start implementing, you know, unopposed, you know, opponents.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Then you start conditioned uh uh opposition by maybe a defender uh you know defending a line or defending an area because you still want to have the player on the ball to have a little bit of an advantage, but eventually that leads to full competition, and that is that happens gradually and automatically because as soon as I put them in a 1v1 situation, they just compete.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: They go past each other or they lose the ball, they have to win it back, it goes up and down.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: When you play 2v2, they have a decision to make.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do I take them on?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do I dribble?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do I pass it to my teammate?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's all gradually.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the games, the format that I introduced at Manchester United in terms of the 4v4 in opposition to 8v8, because I was trying to explain to all the other clubs, listen, if we focus on skill development, and repetition is key, we need to try to get that repetition within the training session, but also in the games.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't make any sense that you go from you know individual skill development to playing 8v8, but there's 16 players on one ball.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: So how many touches do the players get?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I reduced that to 4v4.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: The reason 4v4, because it's the smallest, a small-sided game where you still have the tactical uh aspects of width and depth.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you do it.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then I created four formats.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: One was line ball, which means that I wanted to encourage the players to take peers on and keep running, because you can score over the whole line, so you can go any direction, yeah, as long as you maintain pace and and don't be afraid to take two players on or even three players.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you get to the line and he blocks it, can you come out and find somebody else?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then he goes.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: The other one was with two small goals, which means that you have to look after possession because if you of course you want to be positive and shoot, but there's a big chance you you're going to miss the small goal.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's the combination of keeping the ball, uh changing angles all the time, move it, you know, little move here and little move there.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Then we have the one with the four small goals in the corner, which is all about you know, dragging players over to one side, change the angle of attack, switch the play, and try to, you know, and try to score on the other goal.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you move the you moved your position horizontal all the time.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the last format was obviously four v4 with goalkeepers.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, you know, can you be the man and have a shot?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Which is obviously the most exciting one.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: So all those formats, all those formats, line bowl, two small goals, four small goals, and big goals, they came back through all the small-sided games from 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 2v1, 3v2, and 4v3.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's the whole format.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: So skill development, small sided games.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's all they need.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Bang, bang.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: You keep doing that, you know, for two, three, four, four years, then you create fantastic players.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: When you said like they expect skill development overnight, I would work with a player for five years and a new family would see that girl and like, I want to go work with Jason.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go work with Jason and see, you know, what they do.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: They give me a month and they're like, we're not seeing improvement.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, wait a minute.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: You wanted you wanted to be like her.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: She's been with me for five years.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: You're expecting me to be able to do with your daughter in one month what I did with her in five years.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work like that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I I have always believed that the better you are on the ball, the slower the game is.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: The slower everything around you is.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not comfortable on the ball and you haven't mastered the ball, everything is going a million miles per hour and you can't pick out a pass.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: You can't, you don't even know where anybody is, let alone let alone the.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: It creates time.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you when you when you're 100% comfortable.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: 100% comfortable because that is what all those players like at the top level show us.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you have got that skill and ability, they're always one step ahead.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because they know, you know, they they know what they want to do.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: They manipulate the situation, so they manipulate the possibly the opponent's movement, but then they already got the answer ready because they got the skills to choose from.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you haven't got that, then you only have one option, which is pass it to somebody else.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's nobody available, what happens?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: They just kick it and then hope for the best.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I keep saying yesterday to you, Jason, I said, football is is if you look at it, there's by far too many one-dimensional, one-directional players.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: You look at all the games, I'm telling you, you can stop like with a with a remote control, you say, Where is he going to play it?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: In the direction he travels and in the direction he looks, nine out of ten.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that because they don't have that second out or it I always want players to have multiple outs.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And there's always a second defender, whether it's out of bounds, it could be the touchline or an actual second defender.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And if you beat the first defender, there's always going to be a second defender.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're so focused on pattern play, and we're and pattern play is great, but as soon as there's not good movement off the ball, you better be good on the ball to be able to get out of a situation if you don't have an immediate answer.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have to be able to solve multiple multiple ways.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we are getting away from that because we are so enamored with pattern play and systems and style of play.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Frustrating.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it is frustrating, and it's it is frustrating for myself because I think obviously, as you know, we've just been here at a North American Soccer Expo when you see a lot of people coming and demonstrating and talking about so many things in football.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, like I said, I've I've been very fortunate with my journey to you know having played and having trained, really coached at every level that you can imagine.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the big difference is that the reason why I'm so confident and so determined about the mission about making sure that the world is going to see more specific skills development coaches, because it's what the young boys and girls need.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the big difference is that a part of in comparison with a lot of other people that have messages in soccer is the proof is in the pudding.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it at Manchester United.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I developed the players like Danny Weilbeck, who just signed for Chelsea.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's 37 years of age, he's still going strong.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And partly because of that is yes, he looked after himself, he's fit, but he's very skillful.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: He can still handle himself at the Premier League EPL at the highest level, and there's so many more players, but they've come through, and then I was able to introduce all those skill aspects at the highest level, you know, under Alex Ferguson with the first team of Manchester United, which was the most exciting time of my coaching career.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: But all those players bought in to the fact that when I started working with them individually, and I said to them, Listen, if we can add this to your game, you're gonna be more effective, more unpredictable, you know what I mean, more valuable for the team.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: They all buy into that, all the players do.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and that is why I'm so, you know, still uh it's almost a mission for me before before I leave this earth.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I really want, I really hope that I can can live a positive, leave a positive legacy by saying, you know, that that really people more and more coaches start to jump in the bandwagon.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: What it is here in the United States, Jason, is it requires almost a cultural change.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: That is the hardest thing to do.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that will take 30 years, a hundred years.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody asked me that question the other day in a club where I did a lecture.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: He says, if you would be in charge of your United States football, you you you have you can decide whatever happens in football, what would you do?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, if I would be the Donald Trump of soccer, I would say I would scrap the pay-to-play system, replace it with government funding, so clubs don't have to fight and recruit and make money and just to make sure to survive, that money is there.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no excuse.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously sponsorship deals that can help clubs in different ways, you know, to make it sure.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the most important thing is is that every club I would force every club to to hire a skill development instructor to develop skill development coaches, and in those ages from six to nine, it's only going to be four v4 formats, small side of the game formats, you know, same to almost up to 12 years of age, to then kick on, you know, because every the whole pattern of the whole skill technical development is going over four segments, four building blocks.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: First technique on a post, then into skill, yeah, or post, condition the post or a post, then it goes into small-sided games.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just scrimmages, they just play, they just compete.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then it goes into 11v11.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Bang, bang, bang, bang.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Every coach has to understand in that window of opportunity, that's how I call it, how and what he needs to do.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's specialized work almost.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly the same when kids go to nursery, preschool, high school, college, university, you've got different kinds of teachers that work at different windows of opportunity to making sure that the kids can learn at the right pace at the right time.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you're absolutely spot on by saying if you see all those coaches that work with 10 or 12 year olds and try to implement a Pep Gardiola style in 11v11, what we're doing?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because the kids, the kids will do what you tell them to do.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: But tactical development is all about two things.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's about awareness and understanding.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, you need to make the players aware, you know.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do you you know do you know 11v11?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what position you're playing?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Are you a right back, fullback, center back, midfielder, forward?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Are you aware?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are you aware about your own qualities, your strength, your capabilities?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Are you quick?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are you slow?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are you good in the ball?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Not so good in the ball?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are you tall?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Are you small?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Then the next thing is is bringing those players from awareness to understanding.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So do they actually understand how to defend in a certain system?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do they actually understand what their role is when they have possession in the build-up phase?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do they understand what to do when they get into the final phase in the attacking phase?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how to break opposition down.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a lot, it's a lot coming at it.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: If that's too early, it won't, it won't stick.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like throwing throwing milk against the wall and it will run, it will, it will run down, doesn't it?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to have making sure that you do those things at the right time, which is, in my opinion, around 14, 15, 16.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that's possibly the best age because ideal, in the ideal world, you have a very good tactical player by that age.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: They they they they are able to deal with any 1v1 situation on the pitch.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there's only four.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's many 1v1 moments, but there's only four situations.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's whether the defender is on the side of you.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I call those up and down moves.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm running down the wing as a right winger.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: The defender wants to stop me crossing the ball.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So have I got a turn to go back the other way?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Could be stop turn, crypt turn, step over, whatever it is.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm a midfield player and I'm attacking the space in an angle, defenders will come across to stop me going.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Have you then moved to turn away?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Outside hook, inside hook, flick behinds.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the moves that are very, very important to change the angles of attack.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if everybody talks about 1v1, mostly they think about is this right in front.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I got one in front, how can I beat him?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, wingers are getting in that position a lot, sometimes strikers, forwards, but mostly wingers because they've got the space and then to beat them on the outside or on the inside, right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: With a scissor, sidestep, whatever, or a double move.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and the last situation is when you got a defender behind you, which happens a lot to forward strikers, and the ball is played in.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of just setting the ball back, have you got a move to turn, you know, to turn right or left, and then maybe you set yourself up for a shot.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So all that, all that is that whole rounded package where players need to get through at the right at the right time.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that that is all what needs to be delivered between six to nine, nine to twelve.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because after that ace, that's when you can start, that's when the wrapping of the player comes off as well, in terms of what what what kind of animation.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking at?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking at a forward?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking at a defender?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking at a quick player?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Am I looking at a strong player?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't matter what you're looking at, one thing is for certain skillful.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're all skillful.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're all skillful.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that is also where I envision what the differences are going to be in the soccer in time to come.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it's not anymore just defenders, midfielders, forwards.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: It it is going to be a you know like a free-flowing thing.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Players end up in different positions, you know, centre backs end up in midfield.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh fullbacks end up in right back in right-wing positions.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they need to have the skills to be able to deal with those situations as well.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to be technically a far more complete player than just what it was years ago.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just a right back or a fullback, and my job is to stop the right or a left winger.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: What age do you think that you could say how old was Danny when he you were like, he's gonna be a first teamer?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um with with some of those really, really talented kids.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, you can uh it you can see fairly early, obviously, there is a massive uh the massive development aspect with regards to when it comes to what I always call the window of uncertainty when the kids start to grow and you get these growth spurts.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of things happening, you know, not physically but all psychologic uh psychologically, etc.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because to be able to, as well as to be able to to survive at that kind of level, it's not only about you know how good technically you are and how good your understanding of the game is technically, and that can you compete physically?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's the hardware, the mental side of it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that you have do you have the confidence to play that level, the attitude that carries your performances, you know, the winning mentality, because obviously, like I said, the problem is that a lot of problems that occur in the early parts of development here in America is because everybody focuses on winning.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And winning, don't get me wrong, it's not that winning is not important at the right window.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's important, you know, at the end.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Kids will always compete, it's not a problem at all.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: But all the way up, before they make that step into that first team, it's more than anything.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's competing, yes, and it's all focused on development, whether it's team development or whether it's the individual development.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: But Danny, Danny was obviously when you start, when you go through that gross birth and you come into you know the under-18s, where you start, where you really start to see the young man coming out, and you see the physicality, and you see, you know what I mean?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: You see that he still makes you know better decisions, good decisions.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: You still see him being important with assists and goals, and you see him executing all those skills and all that.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then what we did, um, or what I did when obviously there's one season when I had 2005-2006 when I had the reserves, but after that, when I took the first team, a lot of moments what we did was that we brought the younger players from the reserves with the first team, and uh no better, no better judges than first team players.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: They would they would tell me, listen, don't bring him again, it's not good enough.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: No good, but him and him and him, excellent, very, very good.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And those players then um in a very natural way start to find what the level is, where they have to be and where they have to get.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that was that was a sort of a reoccurring process, what we did at Manchester United to making sure that we blended those younger players in to give them all the opportunity to test themselves against the level they wanted to get to.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is that still happening today?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it will be happening to certain clubs for sure, yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: It EPL because because in the MLS we're trying to have a uh a youth movement.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I have to say one thing, Jason, though, that implementing younger players in the first team level at EPL level is getting harder and harder.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because of promotion and relegation.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the pressures that the coaches are under.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is all about winning there.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and what you're gonna get with young players, no matter how talented they are, they will always have a little bit of a a bit of uh, what do you call it, um uh a performance curve that goes up and down.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can see the talent, you can see the potential, but it's not not necessarily the consistency.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So they suddenly drop off, and that's normal with younger kids.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got too many, that will affect, that will affect the whole team performance.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why it's so important that when you do blend younger players in, you really need to manage that.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, bring them in, bring them in, keep them in, take him out, you know what I mean.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I had an I had uh lunch with the head of MLS Next uh the other day, and he had one of the better arguments against Pro Rel for MLS because of that.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: He thinks that if we added promotion and relegation, we're no longer playing the kids.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to get all 24-year-old to 27-year-old pros that have been in the fight, the kid aspect is gonna be gone.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought about that uh because I've never really thought of it like that, and that kind of opened opened up my eyes a bit.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Every every every action has got a positive and negative reaction.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: You need to think about it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: But the the biggest question you need to ask is or or thing you need to you need to look at uh the all the developments that have taken place, let's say over the last 20 years and see how the MLS has grown.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know, it's it's a massive league now with a massive commercial, you know, um thing attached to it, you know, the USL Pro, uh they're going strong with with all these leagues, so it's a massive pyramid and all this at the end of the day.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: But if you look at all the real American players that make any difference in the MLS, you're few and far between.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the MLS is still injected with all players from South America, Mexico, with other foreign players.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to myself, and I kept saying that all the time, because every time I go to America, I I really enjoy working with those with those with those young kids, and I see the talent, and with talent, you see the potential.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if all those good kids would be together and they would be in the right pathway, I always keep saying and asking the question: where is where is the the United States Messi?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Where is the United States Ronaldo?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Where is the United States La Minia Mal?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the United States Mbapper?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the United States Mdenbele?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're here, they are here, but people can't see it and they don't develop it because they they prefer then the athletes, you know, the bigger boys that can handle it and then all this, but it's not what it's not what the game needs.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I asked you the other day, what is United States identity?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have one.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It used to be like great and fighting.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Good structure, insurance, good defensive structure, yep, good goalkeeping.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Make it very exactly make it very difficult for the opposition to score, yep, and maybe Nick won on the counter.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what 2002 was.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: But why why did everybody criticize Brazil this year?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because they lost their way.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: They lost their why did everybody criticize Holland?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because they've lost their way.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: The identity, because Holland had a very strong identity.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, everybody knew and all those things.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody liked Holland because of the fan base.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: One, what they create, all those thousands of people with the orange shirts, fantastic.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: They love football, they're passionate about it, but also the way they play, on the front foot, always attack.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh good in possession, moving the ball nice and quick.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, they're not moving the ball nice and quick.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's too slow.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: We talked last night a little bit about how Pep is kind of the answer for England.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I said I think, I think that if that would happen, I think you would see a complete different England national team.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because they got the best players for a long, long time.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And look, England, again, England's got the strongest league in the world, EPL.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: They've created a monster they cannot contain.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you think about how many players Tuchel has to choose from for this national team that play in the EPL, you're probably looking at 70 players.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: 70.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And still there's plenty of good players in there.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of those would start for the United States.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they the guys that got left off.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he didn't even use Foden.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't even use Palmer.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: All those skillful players.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't even trend Alexander.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you bringing in the big guy when you could have just had Henry Maguire?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: With with all the experience.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: But but the reason why I said that is because um Tuchel had an opening statement when he took over and said, I want our our national team to play like almost like a Premier League team.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look at the EPL, what does EPL stand for?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: They stand for action, direct, energy, intensity.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've hardly ever I hardly have seen that in any of the England games.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And when they are faced up against teams that really play in a low block, like Ghana, they can't open them up.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because too slow in possession and not enough individual skill that make things happen.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because that is what you do.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: You have to isolate one or two players, make sure that there's a player that has an individual action to get past people, and then you drag players out, and that's when the gaps appear.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have that.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: With Pap, you would because Pap has got such a strong conviction of his and the way he played, and he obviously knows DPL inside out now.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: So he knows all the players.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he brings so much respect and charisma.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: You will see another thing.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Klub, Germany.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Germany, another disappointment lost its way.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm telling you now, you watch Germany within the next half year, they will go exactly like Liverpool.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Front foot, pressing high, uh, you know, exciting stuff, play through the lines quickly, you know, runners all the time.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's what club stands for.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what you want to see.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then do you think that there's something behind the no foreign manager has ever won a World Cup?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Does that matter?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently it does.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good it's no, it it but is it is a good statement.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, few have come close.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I still remember Ernst Hoppel was the manager at uh in Holland in 78 when Rob Ransenbring hit the post.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And otherwise Holland would have been 2-1-0, but he lost eventually 3-1.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: But uh it is it is an interesting one.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I myself obviously been as an assistant in two different different countries, and I know with Graham Arnold managing his own country, um totally different uh from obviously when he managed Iraq in the last 12 months, you know, going to the World Cup.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: Ansaloti with with with with Brazil, I thought it was a really, really clever move, you know, from from Brazil.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: But also for Ancelotti, it's different, you know, it's like just managing a different club, but then a nation.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you are talking about your own nation, the pride, you know, of of you know being Italian or Spanish or Dutch, whatever, it's it's in you.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, it's an interesting statement and an interesting observation.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um will we like you know, will we see you know a foreign manager ever win the World Cup with it with a foreign nation?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So so you're uh would you say Will was a uh a big mentor to you, or was he more like a co like uh like a co-worker like Will Curver?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Will was uh was uh just a massive inspiration to me.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just an inspiration because I believed in his his his philosophy about skill development and developing players that I said because he basically in a nutshell said all those all those associations and federations that have these coaching courses, where where is it based upon?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because every country's got his own sort of philosophy and they think that's the truth.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, no, the truth lies in looking at the best teams, they are the best teams for a reason, whether they come from Germany or Italy or Spain or whatever, but just look at them.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: They are they are the best for a reason.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you look at the same thing, he said he said, if you want to you want to be a top-top player, tennis player, analyze the best players out there, you know, past and present.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Why was Borg the best one at his particular time?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why was MacEnroe good?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why was Sampras good?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Why was Agassi good?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why was Federer good?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nadal and all of them, just analyze them.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: What did he do?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it always comes around those four blocks.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: How how good technically are they?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how good are they managing the game, understanding, decision making, physically?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: How good are they?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Look at Djokovic, that was one of his pillars.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and how strong are they mentally?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly for footballers, yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's exactly for footballers.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, and one of the ingredients of these top teams are they got they got quality players, and some of them, or maybe most of them, they got world-class.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And those world-class players are the best out there.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: So analyze them.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then he said it's simple because if you look at the attributes of the forwards that we all know, whether it's Puskas, the name of N Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, and all that, he all got a trick.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when he started to look at all these different you know, tricks to row.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Rivellino with his step over, that's where it came from.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: So Stanley Matthews, inside out, the Cruff turn that everybody knows.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he started to categorize them.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why he came to his his format.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So he was a massive inspiration uh to me in in uh in that, and and that has never left me.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's only it's only grown stronger over time.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But when I when I went to work with him, Jason, in 93 in Qatar, never ever I envisioned that I at one day would work with the first team of Manchester United.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: You think yourself, honestly, you do.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I saw the results that we had with these young Qatari kids in in those you know six months' time.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: We did a we did a test once.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I said to Real, we need to do a test.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I said, for one month, you're gonna split the groups in two.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: You keep doing what you're doing, you keep doing your skill development, one if you want to focus.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: I take the skill development out of these players.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll only focus on passing, just passing.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: They can only find solution with passing, no turns, just passing.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And after that, we did a festival, right?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: 4v4 festival line ball, small game, four goal, goalkeepers.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Our team, my team, didn't win again.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't win again.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because Wheel Curver did his stuff.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: The only thing he said to them is listen guys, if you don't have the ball, I want you to react straight away, press, try to win it back, and then off you go.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Off you go.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I want you to see use quick combinations, everything, but you play, and if you need a turn and all that.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I only had to, I can only play out from the back.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I just the passing element.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: And all the games we played, wheels team won all the games.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Did you communicate that to like what to the to the like the parents?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because you would have to do that here.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: We would we couldn't do that here.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, well, we did it.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: I did a similar test when when I came to Manchester United to show the coaches.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I did a similar thing.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's another thing where a lot of people forget it because sometimes there's always a big debate about when kids are getting born, right?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: Early in the year or later in the year.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: So all the boys or or girls that get selected, let's say they're born the born starts in January.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: January, yeah.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: January, February, March, April, May, June.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then July, you see it tapering off because obviously these boys and the girls are not developed as much yet.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So they can't really compete yet.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the lower, the sh the younger you go, the bigger that difference shows.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: The older they get, it all it all falls into place.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: It all comes together, it's not a problem.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: So in the cliff at Manchester United, indoor facility where we trained, we had uh 32 boys.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is that correct?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Four times eight.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I made four pitches, yeah, four pitches, and I had them in the first round of games, and I had about 20 scouts coming.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I mixed them all up, all age groups, and it was uh the the age groups were all the way over 12 months.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the oldest one was born in January, the youngest one in December.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I had I had players of all months of the year.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: The first uh games, 4v4, in the different 4v4, the players were all mixed up.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they played eight-minute games.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted the scouts to look at field A for two minutes and pick the two or three best players.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: So they had to write it down.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Field two, field three, field four.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: So at the end of all the fields, they had to give me a list.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: These are the best two players.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then put it away.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: The next round, I divided it in half and half.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we had players playing from June to July, and the rest August to December.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: So two pitches here, two pitches here.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Again, same thing.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Give me a list of who's the best two players.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: The last one, I had the oldest one on this pitch, second oldest ones here, the youngest, mid-youngest one, and the youngest here.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: In the first two rounds, in the first two rounds, none of the younger players were selected as being one of the best players.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: None.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: In the same group, in that group above, also, none, none selected.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Only in these two older groups.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: When we played the last round of those mid-group and the youngest group, four or five players were selected.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And just because I stripped the onion, I filtered it to making sure that these kids could compete at their own level physically.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly you saw the talent and the potential coming out.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the biggest mistakes globally as well.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: That a lot of a lot of those young kids are snowed under.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because of that they are born, you know.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: In December.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: In December or November or whatever it is.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then the focus goes, you know, that.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was an eye-opener to all the scouts to say, you know, we really need to.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a problem because when the game situation is as such that all those young players have to compete in an 8v8 with those older ones, who's gonna who's gonna stand out?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: How would you organize teams if you could, in terms of when they were born?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because we were when Jurgen Cleansman came, we switched to birth year.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: So teams would be from January to December, all on the same team.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And now we went back to July or August 1st to July 31st.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the cutoff.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: What do you guys do in Holland?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: What do you guys do in England?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think I'm not sure about England, but when I was there, they also had the the birthday 1st of August.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh to July 31st.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't, it doesn't really mean a thing because at the end of the day, even if that's the birthday, the best players were August, September, October, November, December.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because now you're now you're the olders.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: You just shifted.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not it.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: The key is to making sure that you have to give it, you have to make sure that you create a place for all those kids, even the younger ones.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to stream them.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: So when we had the kids coming in at Manchester United at eight years of age, and we looked at the birthdays, we knew where they are, but more than anything, we just stream them.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you get three lines.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you are eight years of age, born in November, and you are you are happy to where you are, no problem.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's always good you stay where you are.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are better than that, I stream you up.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the other ones, if you are not there yet, we stream you down.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we just make sure.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had a Erin and I had a camp just across the road on Thursday morning from nine to nine to uh to twelve.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we had 40 kids.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: First thing I did, I just lined them up physically, from tallest to smallest.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I divided them in those four groups.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: See, you lot, you go there, you go there, you go there, you go there.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when a kid comes to me, but I'm I'm already, you know, like this old.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: See, but that doesn't matter.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't matter.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to to making sure that you can can train and practice and compete at your at your level.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: That you get the most out of it.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I put you in your age group, you are with those giants.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've never seen those kids.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: First time I've seen them.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you do your work, you go to the progress.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it worked an absolute trait.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because every kid enjoyed, you know, the things that we did.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Small sided games, they're very, you know, they're obviously very competitive, but obviously we we encouraged them to do, you know, to do all the technical skills and and stuff that we've been practicing before and it was just fine but that's what I would do always make sure you stream them into into you know into a level where they can can handle themselves and still feel challenged.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Were you familiar with horsed wine at all?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah yeah yeah he um he came out and did a coaching course with my old club our director thlew and he did a coaching course and going back to your game uh about 4v4 and in small sided games he came in and it kind of like changed my philosophy of how we start training how we do everything and he when he would play like the four goal game he would have a scoring zone that you had to be in you had to dribble into the scoring zone and it'd only be three yards from the small goals so it'd be within three and that's penetration right making sure that you can dribble and get into to the to that space before you can finish and once I started implementing that it was different.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: All of my players were able to solve that problem if if a pass wasn't there they were able to solve that problem.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can you go into your four penetration power penetration and unpredictability yeah but uh like I said that's again the quality the quality of the coaching and like any four of you four you with with little simple conditions right you can you can create so for instance give you an example if you go to the four goal game like you just spent it he he created like a scoring line you have to get over the line yeah I wanted to make sure that the players understand the importance of switching play.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: So what I did on the side I created a challenge a channel okay so when the ball was on this side I encouraged the players that were away from the ball go and stand in that channel.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody can come in there just you so this player then knew listen I know I have to outside hook switch the play because he will be in that in that safe channel and then you attack the scoring zone.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that is all part and parcel because any 4v4 you can manipulate in certain ways to get the max to max out of it.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about how you keep challenging the keep challenging the players because every session you know uh runs around you know uh four things to me first of all the purpose right so in that purpose I mentioned that before but uh in terms of the attacking way what we were stood for strong for with United was all about pace power penetration unpredictability right and especially that unpredictability that is a combination of moves and skills and combinations but that would be the purpose from the attacking point of view also in the small side of the games you know what I mean use your pace you know what I mean use your power to get past people you know powerful powerful movements etc penetration keep running in behind you know what I mean that type of thing or keep passing the ball in between the lines and in the thing even even a even a even a shot and a small goal it's penetration.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes it's like almost a pass into the strikers you know I mean yeah um but that's the purpose the the next thing is always make sure you keep challenging the players and in that small sided games format players are constantly challenged you know in different ways you know like I said you've got a a a whole array of things to choose from and then I don't know whether you saw my demonstration the other day but I took that group from one 1v1 right let him do a few times 1v1 everybody gets a go now 2v1 different decision different challenge yeah yeah do I pass do a dribble then it became two v2 again now you have to work together yeah do I do I do I move towards the ball do we stay away from the ball what happens if I stay with the ball and the defender doesn't come with me I'm free if the defender comes with me his guy's in a 1v1 take him on then it became three v2 and again you got one extra man but numbers increase so you got more options so you need more and better decisions then it's 3v3 level and then four v3 and then you end up with four v4.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you constantly and when you take those players through that rhythm constantly the purpose is still clear pace, power, penetration unpredictability yeah the challenge is constantly working with different numbers different formats whether it's a line ball, four goal game goalkeeper game.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right and the last thing is all the sessions revolve around two things quality and intensity they are interlinked.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and especially the higher you go with the higher when I was working with the first team level those things didn't change players knew exactly what the purpose was of the session whether it was a team thing whether it was a unit thing whether it was an individual thing I always made sure that I I knew how to challenge those players but the the quality of the players a lot of times with the conditions you put on challenges the players already but then the thing I was always looking for was quality and intensity because they're interlinked if the quality if the intensity is too too too high too rushed players make mistakes so they need to make sure that they calm things down in time if if the tempo is too slow it's not game realistic.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that those are the two uh ingredients you need to be very sharp you know to make sure that the quality is maintained with working with younger players you are much more you know you're much more looking at kids to be confident express themselves no problem if they make mistakes you know what I mean whereas with the first team you know it's it's really you know it has to it has to stick you know right in possession that players need to understand if you do a conditioned possession they understand is that the aim is to keep the bull you know you don't want them to give sloppy passes away you know and that's again all about standards because purpose and challenge is all about standards meeting standards um can we talk about Ronaldo?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Of course when did you when you got to menu at uh 2007?
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: No no no I got to menu nine in 2001 oh okay so I was uh five six years I was uh sort of the skill development coach at the academy then I took the reserve team with players like Jared Piquet and Johnny Evans and Jeppa Rossi and Fraser Campbell and really exciting a really exciting team and that was for me again an opportunity to take that skill into strategy yeah into 11v11 so I did a lot of technical work still with those players but I wanted all those players to implement that in those games we played with the reserves and then obviously in 2007 I became the first team coach got it and that is also when Cristiano came in as an 18 year old how patient were you with him when he first arrived because I remember getting frustrated watching him in 2007 when it in his first years at United and it's like he had he had so much but there wasn't a lot of end results.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah correct yeah but then you added something to him he didn't change it and add don't change um well the first thing I did with him uh when I started working because I did a lot of individual work with Diego Forlan at the time and he saw me working with Diego and he came across and he says what are you guys doing I says well I've got a special technical program for for Diego he says can I join in yeah no problem join in uh which already was the most important step because he wanted more it wasn't like the club or me had to tell him listen we're gonna do this and I'm gonna add this he came to us and he uh he he got excited about it but the biggest transformation thing was when I sat him down in a one-to-one conversation and I what well the biggest one was it I sat one day when I was working with him and we were finished with the session and he said how you how you feel yeah good enjoy yeah brilliant this and that the other and I said to him he says um can I can I tell you something he says uh I know exactly what you want and he said what do you mean I says I know you want to become the best player in the world and he looked a little bit smiled a bit in some ways and and he basically said how do you know he says I know and I tell me correct me if I'm wrong he says not once you want to do it multiple times you want to be really one of the best and what you're doing is you embrace everything that can help you get in there correct he said yeah says what are the things that you feel that you need to improve upon this I want to get stronger and fitter and all this and so what about your football game and I set him down uh after we we had showers and all that with a piece of paper and I drew a line like that from zero to ten split it in five four three two one all the way to ten it says on top here that's where the world class players live who are the world class players in your opinion so you mentioned a few you know like Bailey and Maradona and all of that.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: I say so you want to be there then don't you then I drew a line about where the number five was halfway through I says what are your what do you think your strengths are as a player that can get you to here and mark it six seven eight or nine because this is the area where you're good at well I'm quick you know what I mean I've got skill uh I've got a good shot left and right and you know um and you went off to whatever it is it says are there also things that you think you need to improve upon and again it's all psychology I didn't say I didn't say to him are there also things you're bad at you know it's negative I just say are there things that you need to improve on so you got it but you want to be better those are under here on this line below five so he mentioned a few things here and you know all these things are there but I didn't do anything it was his input so then I said I said let's connect a few things together because you say you're strong and quick uh you know uh uh agile so what kind of qualities are those he said physically yeah so I circled them and connected them and uh yeah he I said um I need to be better at um like decision making you know uh he would he he mentioned one of the strengths I'm a confident you know a lot of self-belief and all them so I connected all those dots and he says I'm skillful you've got a good shot two feet they said what qualities are they they're all technical so I connected though you know the mental side the tactical side but they're all got numbers and I said you say you are quick what number is it is it a 10 is it a nine is it an eight you know what I mean it doesn't matter what number it was but I said everything what is written in there you need to try to see to find ways to make a six a seven seven and eight eight a nine nine and ten and you push everything towards that world class level just small small things small ads so then I explained him the player profile that you've probably seen you know with the the the the yellow the tactical the physical the mental kind of thing and the reason why I did that is that I strongly believe that any player that wants to take ownership of his own development needs to first understand himself about those four qualities what are his strengths and what are the areas to improve if you don't how can you develop yourself if you don't know where you need to focus on so when I did that player profile thing and I set him down and I said Cristiano you are in here and you've got a defensive or an attacking chop in the game where do you think you make most of the difference he said on the attacking side I said correct he says now if you look at those qualities you know tactically awareness understanding do you are you aware Cristiano what your strengths are as a player in the position you play are you aware what what role you have to play whether you play on the left wing or the right wing but more than anything do you understand your job defensively when we're pressing or when we're dropping into a into a into a shape you know do you understand when to play one touch when to receive the ball when to run it when to crawl etc do you know when to make your runs into the box when the ball's on the opposite side so that's the decision making bit that's what top world class players do.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: They make the right decisions this is an area where you really need to improve one physically he wants to get stronger and better and quicker but yes he had pace he had strength agility and stamina no problem that was only getting stronger that's one of the strong really strong sides that you've got to back up your performance to make a difference mentally your attitude your personality very determined very driven very self-confidence great attitude not afraid of any occasions you know what I mean enormous winning mentality that is your hard drive that will drive everything on he said the only thing is is that your mental personality affects your decision making he says what do you mean I said your decision making now is based too much to impress people so too many step overs which don't lead to anything your decision making in terms of finishing is also because you always want to score the winning goal and you always want to score the most important goal.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to score as many goals as you can for the team whether it's a simple tap in or whatever it is because those winning goals and what more important goals they will be in there anyway.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: Secondly your basic attributes are good you know you're passing your saving you're shooting no problem at all I think heading is an aspect where you can improve I really think and he became one of the best absolutely same thing but also you need to be more effective in your moves and skills.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not about three four step overs it's about one and a half step over beat the player and create an end product whether it's a shot or a cross or a pass.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that is where I started to focus on on those things the effectiveness of the moves and his finishing so when it came to his finishing thing and I I told him that I showed him a video for possibly about three minutes of all most of the top strikers that United had had had with Cole uh York Cole Sheringham Solshaff and Esteroy so and it was just a minute of really go go go go go go and I asked him after the video what did you see?
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah a lot of goals I know but what did you see?
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you mean?
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna tell you watch it again telling me what you see watched it again so what did you see yes I saw a lot of variety of goals he said correct I said she saw headers you saw volley she saw uh tapping she saw whatever goals after they did a move whatever the variety of goals one great secondly what did you see 90% of the goals were scored in the box correct I said thirdly most of the goals were scored one or two touches I said those are exactly the three ingredients we're gonna work on so then when we were on the pitch and the goal was here the goal was here and I actually had a special area design the goal was here I made two lines to the edge of the box I said this is scoring goal scoring zone number one and I said that's the most important goal scoring area because you got the biggest chance to score because the goalkeeper will be in the middle you can score any any side of him bottom or top I says and then I make a line this way to the edge of the box and here so now you had this sharp triangle area here.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is scoring zone on the left hand side scoring zone angle on the right hand side so if you're in this position here always remember the goal doesn't move the goalkeeper does because when you are at this angle goalkeeper will come here so you need different kind of finishes so you bend it into the far corner or if there's a defender in front of you it's better to beat him on the inside because you travel into zone one which increases your chances to score if you beat him on the outside you travel into zone three closer to the byline not impossible to score but more difficult so you will start to look at a different end product maybe a cross maybe you cut back so we did all this systematically I worked with him through these zones scoring zones and I said you are a person at this moment in time that can score a goal but I want I want to make you a goal scorer that's the difference and to do that you need to change your attitude and your appreciation of scoring goals and any type of goal so in from now on you're wearing an imaginary rucksack right and it's got a clicker on so every goal you score in training in in matches whatever it is it will click what means is that I create all kinds of scenarios where you're going to be in that that's going to happen in a game but when you click that in your rucksack it will stick on your hard disk on your hard drive so when you come to games in time to come and there's a situation occur you already know that you scored a goal in training so you know okay this is the run I need to make that's the type of finish I'm looking for I I love that I mean so you're exactly right about being able to score in multiple ways I started this bingo sheet with some of my players especially mine like forwards it's like I want you to score in every single way one touch with the inside of your foot right foot left foot I want I want you to score on a on the dribble I want you to score a header I want you to score on a one touch volley out of the air I want you to just everything um and they would have this bingo sheet and one of my girls scored what did she score I want to say she scored 36 goals in her freshman high school season she's a really good player.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_01: She plays in the ECNL flash and she almost got every single type of goal and I was like this is the type of player that you need to be you can't be a one trick pony there's two and and you talk about your zones and that that scoring zone it's funny because when you watch technical trainers they're always shooting from outside the box they're always shooting from 25 yards they're working on galazzos it's like no where do they all come from here there was a Clemson coach that uh he studied one of the World Cups he was one of my coaching course uh uh directors and he broke down like zone 14 and then uh he would talk about uh like the gold standard and where crosses would come from and and he showed us every single goal I think it was the 2010 World Cup he showed us every single goal and you're exactly right all of them were mostly from inside the box most of them were one touch then he goes okay let's watch US in every chance that they created and all of a sudden the crosses would come from like 30 yards out from the touchline zero chance of scoring his his thought was like if you if this is the 18 that he wants crosses from here not out here he wants you to get into here and then try to create into zone one and it was so that was eye-opening and you basically just did the exact same thing one thing another thing about Ronaldo and this was in Sir Alex's book uh he it was either you or or him they went to Ronaldo and said we only need you to create three quality scoring chances a game and if you do that we're gonna win a lot of games yeah is that it yeah but that had to do with that had to do with um targets um setting yourself targets um in games because I said I said and I said it to most of the players I'd introduced it with the reserves initially but I did it with the first team players as well especially the front players and I said to them he says um do you actually do you actually set targets for yourself before you go in the game and people what do you mean they said well I said to uh Marcus Neunmeyer for instance example on the right wing he says he had a back and mask cross it says do you set yourself a target of how many crosses you want to put in in the first half he says no and I says do you know that people that set targets in life are by far more successful than ones that don't because if you don't set any targets you might cross one ball two ball doesn't matter because you haven't set any targets whereas it's one of your biggest attributes but if you say to yourself I want to create at least four to five good crossers in the box to help my player score you play with far more purpose.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Then you just go through the motions.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: That was exactly what I did with Cristiano.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to start setting yourself targets.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have at least, let's say, three, four really good box runs.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have at least two or three good headers.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have at least two or three shots in the first half.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want, etc., etc.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if it doesn't happen, you can then analyze to say, Well, why is it not happening?
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: Does he not get the servers?
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or did he miss, you know, did he miss certain opportunities, whatever it was?
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can always analyze that things.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: But when that happens, and when you are individually a little bit more and more focused, and you have and most of the players in the front line doing that, you get by far more by far more thrust and direction because people are chasing something.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: Paul Scolles, I want to at least chew three or four times outside the box because that's what he's good at.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: Nani, I want you, I want you at least to get at least two or three times in a one if you want.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because you you just go past them, beat him.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: T Sun Park, I want you at the least to make three or four box runs in the box to come to the end of a cross.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: So constantly, everybody is in you know that that mode of achieving what they set themselves out to do.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I remember another video of you, and you were with Nani, and you had those big exercise balls inside the box, and he was trying to hit those.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: He was crossing the ball and he was trying to hit those.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, that's another just like brilliant thing.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk about okay?
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody tries to sell train like a pro, train like a pro.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's all like rondos and stuff like that.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: But when I went to the NWSL, the real pros, it's what they did after training.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_01: They stayed after and worked on something to improve their game.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what I believe is training like is training like a pro.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: You with Diego, like how many of these guys train individually after or before a session?
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's the difference.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, before the session was all predominantly making sure that they did all the uh the injury prevention stuff and all that gear.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: But after every session, after every session, players did something specific at the end.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it was Rio, Ferdinand, and Vidic working on defensive headers or uh switching play, passing long balls, whatever it was.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest thing that really I get really annoyed about, Jason, is when I hear, and and it and everything has its place, but sometimes I think they've overstepped the mark.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole strength and conditioning thing is is an important aspect of the game, don't get me wrong, and and it's got a place and it's important.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I feel they they they've gone a bit of a step too far.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is because whilst I was with the Australian national team, I asked all those forwards uh how much finishing they did at Clubland at their own club.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, we hardly do any finishing, why not?
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, whether it's not incorporated in the training sessions or the strength and conditioning team doesn't allow us.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: What is the most important thing of the game?
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_00: What's the most important goal?
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: Most important thing.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, or or keeping keeping the ball out, the net, and that's why they've got speci uh you know specialized goalkeeping coaches.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: We at Manchester United, we did finishing every day.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: Every single day after training.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: We did 10, 15, 20 minutes finishing.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's one player, two players, four players, eight players.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I always made sure there was a kind of a topic and it was specific.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because what's the point in having a winger straight in front of goal?
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because you hardly ever get there, so to finish.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: He always comes at an angle.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: So he had to score from zone two.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas midfielders like Fletcher and Scholes and Carrick, they are more central and Owen Hargreaves.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you won them.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you know what I mean?
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then the different variety, although, although uh uh goalkeepers always never like it when you have the the the close finishes, but that's the real that's the reality.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the most the most one one of the sessions that was most enjoyable for all the players, where I put I put mannequins as defenders in a cluster in the box.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah?
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I had, let's say, one, two, three, four players in and around it, and I had Paul Scholes from a distance fire the ball into those mannequins.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it could go could go anywhere.
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just hit the mannequin.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then they had to pick the ball up, and then they had to shoot, finish through the mannequins, or quickly find a pass.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because what do defenders do?
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: They block, don't they?
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's and then and then little reverse pass, bang, finish.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I never seen anybody do it, but play they these these players loved it.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: They loved it.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But that's another thing just to recreate something that can happen in a game.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're going to play against Bolton, Wigan or Stoke, there's there's defenders in the box, boys.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's where the scoring from outside the box, so you bypass everybody.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or it is a situation that the ball gets played in from whatever angle or across, and you need to react to that second ball.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that type of stuff.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, so the individual stuff, like I said, we had a little cage at uh at at Carrington at the time, so with the boarding, and Christiana would go in there with a ball and you know, ping the balls against the board, receive it, do a turn, bang, play, hit a goal, that type of stuff.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like I said, we did all extra work afterwards, you know.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was all again um about revolve around two things, you know, quality, quality and intensity.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Don't drag it out.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that is also such an important thing because a lot of players, a lot of I did a lot of individual work with players, and you think, you know, what's the secret to that?
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: We mentioned it before.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure that you talk to the players, add, we're gonna add this to your game.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: But then in the routines, I always worked in repetitions of four, right?
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that depended on the distance I worked in, right?
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: How many repetitions I did.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So always four, because four keeps the concentration high and the quality high.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_00: The moment you go five, six, seven, eight, you know, shots, let's say shots on a row.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, as soon as you go five, six, the concentrations fade, quality goes.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Repetitions are four.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Bang, bang, bang, bang.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on the distance you work, you do, let's say if you if I do an exercise box to box, there's probably four repetitions, two or three rounds, because of what you want to achieve.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_00: If it's smaller distances, you do four repetitions, but maybe six rounds or four rounds, and then you change.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: That type of thing, you know what I mean?
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's those are the magic, the sort of the magic ingredients if you work individually with with players, and always work from small to big, small to big areas.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not shrink, not big and then shrinking.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, start small.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Start small to get them open.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_00: You you work, you work like sort of of certain technical aspects in a certain area, and then you start working at the end product.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where does this need to lead to?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a pass over five, six, ten yards, or is it a switch of play over 25 to 40 yards?
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't want to start with that.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: You you build you build that up.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have an opinion on training to game ratio, especially for like younger ones?
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want them training like four to one or three training sessions for every one game?
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys focus on that or not really?
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, not really.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit bit of a bit of the system because at the end of the day, you want enough playing within the training as well.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_00: But the proper matches, you know, the matches that as always revolves.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: The system normally it always revolves around, you know, a game in a weekend, in it.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a game in a weekend, and during the training, during the week you train with young kids.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously with Manchester United first team.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_00: The EPL, when it's in full swing, you you and that's gonna be uh an interesting challenge this year with United, obviously with Michael Carey carrying on, because last year when he took over, he didn't have any Champions League or Cup games to worry about.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: So he went Saturday to Saturday, Sunday to Sunday, Saturday to Monday.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you have all the time to recover, all the time to prepare the team.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're gonna go from Saturday to Tuesday, Tuesday, Saturday, Saturday, Wednesday.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if you look at that, you've you've only got you know a day of recovery, second day of recovery, uh, match day minus one, and you're playing again.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Different scenario altogether.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: What was the schedule like in the academy when you were there?
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh obviously for the younger ones, I have to think now very quickly with the development centers, they had three moments in a week.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so they had their own sessions uh twice in a week, uh, wherever they were, because we wanted the the parents not to travel more than 15-20 minutes max.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they all feed into.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh I devised, I designed like four advanced centers.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, uh advanced center, if you got development center one, two, three, four, five, the best players would come in the advanced center on a Sunday.
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I would coach them, and I would coach all the coaches as well.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Week after would be five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you had four of them.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so those were three moments, and then you had the uh the festivals on the Sunday, the the four for four festivals.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So they had about they had about four moments, the younger ones, under eights, on the nines.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same, obviously, all those kids that already started to play, you know, all under 12s were playing 8v8 or 9v9.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So they had the same, you know, three sessions and a game.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously the under 16s and under 18s that become young pros, they were they were possibly normally in, I would think possibly six days a week.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, including training in games.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can you go into your goalkeeper defenders, midfielders?
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's an interesting one.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an interesting tip, uh for for what which I think will help a lot, especially when you start working with teams that you need to start to to tactically develop them more in the way that you want to play, the system you want to play, and all that.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I see it all the time where coaches come in, they bring the team in, they address the team, and the team stands there in a circle.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and everybody just stands wherever they walk into.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you got a goalkeeper here, the goalkeeper there, and the defender there, and all this.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I at one point, I I I discovered myself that I was constantly turning and finding, you know, to this, and I thought it must be a better way to do this.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_00: So from that moment on, I said, whenever I bring so I had the reserves at Manchester United, right, and I brought them in.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, listen, the moment they're gonna bring you in and I'm gonna address you all, wherever I am, I want the goalkeepers on my left-hand side, yeah, mostly two, yeah.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then I want my defenders, my central defenders, yeah, then the fullbacks, then the central midfield players, then the wingers, and then the strikers.
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I like that.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever I have to address any of your unit, I only have to look at a small group of players and not constantly go, you know, and switch.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um it just made it so much easier.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because players also knew, oh, he's addressing this, he's addressing the the defense now.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now I need to pay attention, but he's talking about the midfielders.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you're direct, you talk about all of them because they're all there together.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a really, really handy tip, uh, which I would definitely encourage players of coaches to do.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So when you are working with, like I said, teams, like whether it's you know, on the 16, on the 17s, on the eighteenths, on the nineteenths, the older ones that you dress a lot of times tactically, when you bring them in, even after the game, you want to recap certain things.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_00: The moment you stand there automatically, they pick those positions.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: What's next?
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_00: What's next for you?
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what's next for me is I'm uh obviously heading back to Manchester this afternoon.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll uh I'm gonna start a new job as director of methodology uh with Stockport County, a club in League One, yeah, which is basically quartered between Manchester United and Manchester City.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um smaller club, but a nice club.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that overlooking the entire academy, first team, everything?
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they want me sort of, you know, uh to come in and spread my wings and making sure that also, again, my technical skill development program is is being implemented, you know, at the at the foundation phase, grassroots phase, helping, educating the coaches, uh looking at the uh looking at the ages of all under 16, under 18, you know, uh what you know at the elite standards of the players for that level.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_00: What what have we got have we got something and how can we how can we elevate them?
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, it's important for them whether to progress them close to the first team or create market value.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's another group, which is to just hang in the buffy under uh under 18s, like you know, between 23, 20, 23.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's an important group to see which ones can push through and which one we need to think and listen.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously we need to look at the uh the first team.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, my my my oldest son uh Joppe is the first team coach at Stockport with uh with other staff.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_00: They brought in a new manager, Jim McMilt, um, who's a young, youngest coach, 40 years of age, but has got really good ideas about how he wants to play and uh exciting exciting way.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but it is always good to have a little bit of experience in the background, you know, to uh to monitor the the whole process basically.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I just there and I'm just there to to have a look at it and and and there we go again, Jason.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere I feel I can add something to the club, you know, whether it's on the development side or whether it's on a on a practical side or a technology side or a coaching side, you know, uh I can draw obviously from an enormous you know experience for so many years.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, so it's it's a it's it's a new chapter, but um a bit close to home.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Did your daughter play growing up?
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, not really, not really.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's funny though, really.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, as you know, my daughter is uh is a TV presenter and and and soccer commentator in uh working for Sky Sports in the UK, and uh she was obviously invited by Fox Sports to do the presenting, uh to the presenting um for the World Cup, for the World Cup 2026.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So no, but um funny enough, she's she's she's followed in the slipstream of us all, you know.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: But uh she's got a good understanding of the game and uh she's doing a great job as a presenter.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And my youngest son, obviously, is uh professional player in Holland.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So they all ended up in football.
• 1:20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_00: In soccer.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's great.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_01: When's the next time you're seeing Sir Alex?
• 1:21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully soon.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully soon, because I told him I said I he knew that I I was away for uh for a time here in America, and I said I'd touch base when I get back, which I always do, and he's always appreciated when when I come for a cup of tea and have a and have a a little chat for an hour or two.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_00: No problem, thank you.
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is like surreal.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's great, great to meet uh to meet each other eventually, and uh good luck with your podcast and everything, and I'm sure we'll uh we'll see each other again.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_00: One thing, yeah, most important thing is my virtual world.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: My virtual coaching world.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people ask me, can you come and come and do a demonstration and can you do some coaching courses and all this?
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I realize that I'm not getting any younger and it can only be at one place at a time.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So over the last 14 months, I've developed a virtual online coaching academy.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, everything is focused on that skill development.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So any coaches out there, any coaches out there that want to learn more about my experiences, but my expertise uh especially, they can find it in the Müllsteenacademy.com.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Mulsteinacademy.com.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you go to Müllenstein Academy.com, you come into uh a landing page where you got an introduction video, an introduction thing.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's a video there, and like I said, you can then easily go and uh I think scan a QR code and you can see how you can get access to the virtual world.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's unique in its world, it's the only one that exists.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it's an opportunity to basically for coaches to walk through my virtual world where everything has been explained about my philosophy leading into skill development, you know, how you transfer that to small-sided games.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a very it's a very interactive, comprehensive uh football hub.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Only first phase, because we're gonna have phase two and phase three as well, where we're gonna have an introduced to parent zone, we're gonna build an app.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I want to also have uh the books that I've written, the coaching books that I've written with a company called Soccer Tutor.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the Moolenstein's method of success with Man United, which again is a great, great way for coaches to learn more about my way and work, especially with the first team of Manchester United.
• 1:23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Those key principles of play will also be in that virtual world eventually with with videos and animations that people say, okay, how did you with Man United?
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_00: How did you press?
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, what were the cues?
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll all be there in animations.
• 1:23:36
  SPEAKER_00: There will be a partnership with a specialist uh strength and conditioning department that will people that want to know everything about how do I develop my kids physically at a certain age, it will all be in there.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this has been launched at this North American Soccer Expo this weekend.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh wonderful.
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just I want to make players and people, clubs, coaches, and parents aware of it because it's also important for parents that want to help their boys and girls just go in there, take what you need.
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, like I said, it's it's very accessible, it's it's not very high priced because my dream is that I want to get as many boys and girls access to the proper skill development coaching.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't even really talk about the Muellenstein method or your camps with Erwin and stuff like that.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's Moonstein method.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is Moonstein Academy.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 1:24:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they they they work, they obviously support each other, right?
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_00: But Moonstein Academy is that new project which leads to the virtual world.
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I like it how you have a strength and conditioning component because like what we were talking about with Ian last night, about UEFA has a fitness.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's all good, but there's also a science behavior lab in there.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there will be all information about, you know, look at anxiety or resilience or confidence or self-belief.
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So this guy I'm working with is an expert in that, you know, in in those things.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And there's all courses you can sign up for.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, um, it is uh it's it it's been it's been hard work, but it's it's been worthwhile and uh and hopefully uh we're gonna see coaches signing up and and and take advantage of it.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna pump that out everywhere for sure.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Are you on like Instagram and stuff?
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry?
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Are you on Instagram?
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you go in the Moonstein Method of Moonstein Academy, you will find it on Instagram.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_00: You will see a lot of uh uh traffic going out in social media outlets, media releases.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_00: That is all gonna happen.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to make sure that more and more people in the world, because it's not for America, it's globally.
• 1:25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I want to roll, I want to roll it out globally, you know.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, like I said, there's so many coaches uh and and and soccer has played everywhere in the world.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I wonder every coach that has an interest to have the ability to come and learn from me 24-7 anywhere and anywhere in the world.
• 1:25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you can make I we always talk about player development, but coaching development, you can make an even bigger impact because because they're hitting so many more kids that you'll never touch.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:26:05
  SPEAKER_00: But if you give me a few minutes, um I'll grab my laptop and I will show you what it looks like.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a good idea?
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go get it.
• 1:26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Jace.
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I hate soccer.