Latest / Off Grid Down Under by MDC / EP 40 - His Grandfather Built the First Land Rover. He Builds the Hitch on Your MDC

Transcript

EP 40 - His Grandfather Built the First Land Rover. He Builds the Hitch on Your MDC · Off Grid Down Under by MDC

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're focusing on just outright durability.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't hit your caravan up to come home, that's gonna be the problem.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Seeing it on the computer screen, seeing it as the new product as we rolled out as the prototype typically is very different to how a user sees it and uses it day to day.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because then you can see, okay, this is this worked well, but next time we can do better.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: We want to make sure that we have a safe, compliant product for our customers and something that doesn't fail and it's very reliable and very easy to use.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So there we were at Pan Tam Bay with a hammer trying to smash our new product to pieces, trying to separate the two things.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of where you go, well, you know, this is the bit you don't get.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: What's V4 gonna look like?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Surely you got something in the pipeline.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: We do, can't tell you.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sitting here with managing director of MDC, Vaughan Heinley.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me back, Stan.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Today's going to be a very exciting podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: We've got some real tech stuff to get into here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: James Field, General Manager of Commercial and Product with MDC.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, Sam.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for having me back.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: And a bit of a figurehead in the uh off-road towing, off-road industry, Mr.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: Andrew Goddard from Cruise Master.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, how are you doing?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate the uh the invite and um haven't done a done done a podcast before, so this will be uh pretty exciting.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: It is gonna be exciting.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: Look, Cruise Master is a very well-known name in Australia, Australian company.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's a fair bit of history there too, which it's kind of what we're gonna dive into today.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Give, I guess, the audience a bit of an insight into who is Cruise Master, how did you guys come about?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: These are um the go-to hitch for the products on our off-road caravans and camper trailers and things like that.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: And uh they're a bit of a design evolution or revolution, probably, is a good way to describe it.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I'd like to dive into that a little bit today.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: And we've got James here to talk about it from a commercial application for the off-road market, and Vaughn here from a how did we end up in in partnership with you guys?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to hear the story from you because there's a bit of a family history here that goes right back in the off-roading community, and some big name, big name brands are involved.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: So tell us a little bit about yourself, Andrew, and your background.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I've been in the um in the in Cruise Master for uh quite a few years.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I started off um uh uh counting U-bolts and doing stock take as a as a kid.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um we won't talk about what age I actually started because we might get.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: We just won't talk about when you started getting paid.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I started at four and got paid at 27.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably about that.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: But um, so I uh I started in the business doing all types of things um through school holidays and that type of stuff, assembled components, that type of thing.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I finished school, I did about uh a year in the workshop.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was machining and welding and that type of stuff.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was when you're about 14.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not quite, I did actually finish school.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um I I remember when one day I um I think I was assembling a handbrake, one of our handbrakes that go in the back of the DA35.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought uh probably uh probably should expand my horizons and what can I do?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I went in to see the old man, and um he said, Well, why don't you sit with the engineers?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So my family is a family of engineers, my old man's mechanical, and uh my grandfather was a mechanical engineer as well, so it's in the DNA.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um joined the joined the engineering team doing drawings and stuff like that.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I've done graphics at school, so I could work my way around CAD.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went off to went off to TAFE.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I did an advanced diploma there because I was pretty rubbish at maths at school.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, did well at that and then went on and did my degree.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then um then ended up back in the back in the business.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: So how did the family become, I guess, involved and how did how did Cruise Master come about?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's um it's an interesting one because um my grandfather, um, like James James's uh James met him.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um he was uh he never stopped working.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um vehicle components is what the business was at the beginning.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, he bought that as a bit of a retirement hobby, um, supplying um specific trailer parts to uh councils and trades and that type of thing.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Then my old man came over from the UK, he was in the uh British auto industry, he came over with us um in 1998, and uh and from there he kind of took over the business.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we eventually, I'm not exactly sure how we got there, but we kind of transitioned from trade into um into recreational.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, and that that's kind of how we got into the into the caravan space with a couple of products, um, lots of products along along the lines there, and then in uh 2018 we rebranded from vehicle components to cruise master.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, interesting story.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't aware that sort of went that far back.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: So some of the heritage there, Sam.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Your grandfather Arthur did some exciting stuff in the vehicle space in the UK.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so he um out of the out of the war, he um he joined Rover and he was the uh chief engineer of the Series 1 Land Rover.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: How's that for pedigree?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's it's it's insane pedigree.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: The um the interesting thing is though, is he hated off-roads?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right, yeah, right, wow.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, uh really excellent engineer, really good automotive guy.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we're getting into this, you know, the four-wheel drive side of stuff and Bitcoin components and and cruise master, you know, you say, Oh, you know, you want to come and come and use the product or get your caravan to stay?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, oh, no way, I'd rather stay in a hotel.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but that um I think that um high-quality automotive engineer DNA is kind of what really sticks in the business.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did the four-wheel drive or the off-road side of the business evolve?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a good question.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: It probably predates me slightly.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was a it was a case of demand from our customers.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we we were doing B Max or stuff and that type of thing, and dad dad met a few car a couple of caravan manufacturers um through the journey and they kind of started talking about independence.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: There was other um small camper trailer manufacturers at the time that were doing their own independent, but no one had really um really mainstreamed it.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that was where where we came in, yep.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, creating those independents, and then kind of very shortly after that we got into the um into the off-road coupling space.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Which I think it that would be almost second nature.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: You'd start to see the limitations.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: We've got the 50 mil ball hitch on the front, which is obviously the very standard hitch that comes with you know most trails that the majority of people are familiar with.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: But then the the DO35 there is a very, very different system to what people are quite yeah used to, I think.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: Where was the point that you realised you were kind of following your your father into or your grandfather and that into the engineering space?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: Was it as you left school in that kind of hands-on role in the business?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was probably when I kind of took you know got into that seat in engineering um early on.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I didn't know how well I was gonna go academically.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I pretty much cruised school.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had other interests that weren't academic in the classroom.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um so I didn't know how I was gonna go when I got got out.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I went to TAFE first to kind of dip my toe in the water.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: That went that went well, went into um did my mechanical degree, did did well at that.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh well, maybe this might this might be a sensible path.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think perhaps a bit more earlier on than that, um there was a stage, I think, in about grade grade nine or ten, where as you do, you kind of get into computer games and stuff like that.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Dad wasn't too impressed, so he bought a go-kart.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that kind of changed that.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's a way to get you outside, isn't it?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I got kind of got into you know playing with that and cleaning it and setting it up for race days and stuff like that.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that probably generated a layer of foundation as well of interesting cars.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Then that off-road space when we were talking earlier, you obviously enjoy camping and you you live the lifestyle, and that is that a big part of your sort of family history.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: I know not your grandpa, you were saying he hated it, but where did that come in?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: Where did the camping and outdoors kind of space come in for you?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think um we did a little bit of camping um as a as a family when we were young.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, growing up in England, it's not really the place to camp if you want to be dry.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um then we came over here, did a little bit of it, but I think it was mainly kind of in the last year of school for me, and just after that, my mates all bought four-wheel drives.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um Daihatsu Rockies, um 60 series cruiser and stuff like that.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I bought my first four-wheel drive, which was uh Suzuki Sierra.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, and that was kind of um, yeah, I know the big the big towing vehicles, those ones.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those Kriana really where the hooks got in for me.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think the the turning point for the business was um I think it was 2009, was our first um what we call a route run.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's a testing trip where we take our products away, try to do it every year.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that started out where we'd been making a coupling that predated the DO35, the AT35.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we just we just created this new one.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm pretty sure Dad and I had this conversation.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, how do we know this thing's gonna be right?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because we'd never really tested anything before.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: We just designed something, you know, physically tested it to make sure it was strong enough and compliant and sent it.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then we've got all these cup customers using these products.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: We said, well, we probably should go and see what these conditions are about.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've heard about all now, all these rough roads and and the bull dust, and and and we hit the road, and that was that was that was a real turning point for the business, really focusing on that off-road space.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the rat run is, and I've watched some of these videos, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, remote area testing.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's where that comes from.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a pretty cool acronym.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: And when you guys go out testing, your engineers are putting sensors all over things, or they what are they actually testing for?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so most people think it's uh it's a nice holiday.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the engineers that have been on it, some that are still with us.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um they they realize it's not quite.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: The other ones are left out the bush, you can left them behind.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not not quite that cruisy, but yeah, we um we we aim to take all of our new off-road products onto a rat run and go and beat them up because only so much stuff you can do in the lab or around a test track, you know, you can get you can get the forces into them, but it's not the same as the dust and the heat and and the continuity you're doing it every day.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for suspensions, we'll put um right height sensors and G sensors and all types of stuff on it so we can measure what's going into the suspension and what's transmitted into the body as well.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we can uh we can measure what's going on.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: We um we're gonna dive into that a little bit and and sort of go into that in more detail.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Having watched a few of them, you've got a few series, obviously.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: Was the Gib the last route run you've done?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: 2024, I think was it?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: The Gib was the last one.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're um we're just planning our well, we're just about to start planning our next one.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fantastic, which is hopefully gonna be August this year, any minute.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: And look, that's the type of stuff that we're doing a lot of.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's something you've really invested in as a business owner to actually take the product out, test it, you know, do those trips and put it through its paces.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I know James sort of relies on a lot of that feedback from a product development point of view.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Where has the where did the decision come from, Vaughan, from your point of view to partner with Cruise Master?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's a that's a it's a big commitment to sign up to one company for a major component.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to say too much how a price might go up.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: But uh we really do rely on these guys for the off-road um vans and uh camper trailers.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um obviously the articulated hitch is where it needs to be, and there's not many to choose from.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think back in the day um we were using another brand, um, had a few failures with customers, and then actually had to find a robust product.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Can honestly say um hand on heart, and like you know, we've got more than 40,000 units out in the market.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: We've actually never had a DA35 fail that I'm aware of.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we want to make sure that we have a safe, compliant product for our customers and something that doesn't fail, and it's very reliable and very easy to use.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, we'll also like to support local businesses.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: These guys are in Brisbane, our head office is in Brisbane.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think first time I actually went and checked our ERP.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: When did we first buy a coupling?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think we bought one in 2013.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And now, you know, the purchase orders are in the hundreds each month.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that history comes back to that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they're they're standard across all our off-road vans and caravans and campers and stuff like that.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Andrew, do you want to just give the the viewers at home who for some people they probably recognise the red cap, right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: It sits on people's toe bars and people I think can leave it on there as a badge of honour.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: But um uh do you just want to give us a quick side-by-side of a 50 mil toe hitch versus the DO35?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um the 50 mil ball couplings are an extremely um good product for a segment of the market.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think we we got into the the off-road couplings due to a need for you know um being able to hitch up, particularly um in uneven conditions.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the the main claim to fame for the the DO35 is both its um axial rotation, so you know the yoke can go round and round.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: In theory, if you didn't have safety change, you could spin the caravan around the back of the car.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't advise it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um Do you want to just show us show us that because it I mean it's it's full 360, it's not just that 360 or it can go this it just spins, it's on a big thing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: Straight out of the box that way.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we tend to we tend to do them tight because of the the ball weight um loosens them up over time.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll do 360 that way.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the um the uni will do high articulation that way, and the the main key is the oh my I'll grab the pin so it makes sense.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, the it's really the shape of the toe pin.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the the tapered surfaces here and there's um the tapered surfaces within the uni there.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we see the other way out.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you've done this, you've also got a problem.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um you that that are that provides a self-alignment method of the of the coupling.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: As you were saying, if it's uneven ground, it's gonna feed it in, yeah, nice and easy.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we we had a coupling before this called the AT35, and that was similar to the polyblock with a pin which came through the top.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And whilst it had good articulation, it was a bit of a nightmare to um line up off-road.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where the DO, the drop-on part came from, which really is the bit, which I think revolutionized it all.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, like on a on a 50 mil ball coupling, you have a 50 mil ball that goes into the back of the car with the um with the tow pin that replaces that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the other major thing that it did uh at the time is that in uh Australian standard AS4177, there's a uh there's a height range with which a 50 mil ball has to be used.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that was okay when we towed caravans with Commodores and Falcons.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: So height off the ground.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, correct.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but when everyone started towing with land cruisers and patrols, three and a half ton off-road caravans, the ball height was no, the effective height of the drawbar was higher than that.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And because this isn't a ball, it doesn't have to comply with that standard, it only has to comply with the ADR.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the ADR um does not have a height restriction on something that's not a 50 mil ball.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where that's where that came in and provided a compliant, easy-to-use solution.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: So what version are we up to here?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: When did you first develop the first DO35?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And this current one we're looking at here, what version is this one?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: And why have we got to version three or four?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So this is V3 Plus.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess you could call it a three and a half.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: So this so the first one we did, I'm gonna flip it back over.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're very heavy, mate.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: They are you can just feel the quality.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can, yeah, you can absolutely see the quality too.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can smell the quality from you.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So our first ones, uh I was looking the other day, I think it was about 2008, 2009, because around that first rat run time we were we launched it.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was completely fabricated.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So in those days we didn't have access to kind of advanced manufacturing techniques that we do now.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So those bits of plate and RHS that we welded together in the factory.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: In Brisbane, we machined the parts in in Brisbane and we got them electroplated and put together.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we moved into a I think there was two versions of that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: The first one had like a swinging locking mechanism, if you remember those.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Then we went to this, then we went to this type of locking mechanism with a cap in V2.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: V3, we went to um cast and forged.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: So what we were seeing at the time is particularly on the heavy three and a half ton vans, the use of weight distribution hitches went up for obvious reasons, and people were coming up with more creative ways of getting the chain tension.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you'd see people hook the chains up and then they use a piece of pipe to get that extra bit of it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, and that creates a lot of um lot of extra load through the front of the coupling.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the previous ones are going to had a little plate and you bolted it through there.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we strengthened this to do that.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think V3 Plus, we reinforced some parts and we changed the cap because the old the old cap you had to have a certain way of putting it on.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: You put it on the back first and clip it over.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: This one was modelled off one of those um keep cups.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you just push the cap on, it just clips on.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that that was um that's how we came up with this kind of mechanism for putting the cap on, you could just kind of punch it on.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Coffee hitch.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a very smart design in that respect.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's from a usability and visual perspective.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not only do you press the button, you can hear that clip, and it's very satisfying to hear, but the only way you can actually click the the what do you call this, the checklock, the cap the cap on, is if actually if you haven't engaged the plate properly, it won't clip on.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you know if this doesn't clip down, you've done something wrong.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very smart, very intuitive design.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that um that came from us making the same mistake as others too.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember we were we were on a rat run, it's in one of the videos, and we'd been um we stopped at the side of the road, I think it was on the Udnadata track, and we were talking to a customer there about it, and we'd unlocked it to show how it worked, and we forgot to relatch it, and like 10 kilometres down the road the the caravan jumped off the back of the car.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I probably should do something about this.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so yeah, that that kind of guarantees that it's if it's clipped on, you're uh you're pretty safe.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: So uh talking about stabilizer bars there, obviously that's a that's a no-no with these hitches?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, they're uh weight distribution hitch compatible.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what one of the things that we realize I was talking before about the load in it is that the um the ADR in the Australian standard isn't really talking much about weight distribution hitches.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So um to get a bit too nerdy here, but there was um there was ADR 6201 and ADR 6202.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: They changed the performance requirement, so the peak forces that you have to test to, so they reduced it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So we we always test to the old standards because um I think we don't think you should back it off in off-road.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then when we're designing it, we consider these loads from weight distribution hitches.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we we were measuring them and then we use that as part of this, and then um along the way we've changed the height of this a few times to make sure things are clear and that type of thing.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they're perfectly compatible with weight distribution.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: More I guess more recently from an MDC or MDG market direct group perspective, we've moved to the DO45 for our gold-class caravans, which are typically a bigger, a bigger unit in themselves.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: They're our luxury range of products, but they're typically a lot larger.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um James, do you want to talk about I guess the need for that and then Andrew, I guess, the difference between the 35 and the 45s?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh and Andrew to be across this.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we've just recently launched our uh Gold Class Caravan's AC22C model, which is I guess our our first uh 4A into the 4.5 tonne category.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: So naturally uh we're looking for the best coupling in that space, and the O35 was a no-brainer for us there.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um very, very easy to to implement, design, engineer, make sure it's a very easy transition for us.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just need to make sure those front bolt uh footprint or uh what do we call it?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: The yeah, that bolt spacing.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the bolt spacing at the front's a little different other than that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a fairly straightforward uh engineering job for us there.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: But uh yeah, as I said, no brainer for us in that four-point fund for five time category to go with uh the DO45.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: So the the the 45 versus the 35, what was involved from a development point of view, Andrew, in terms of that evolution?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So everything's kind of a scale bigger due to the um the higher loads, but in above three and a half, you have to do dynamic testing as well.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to consider D and V value, which creates this um it's I can't remember the exact term, but it's like asynchronous.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to apply vertical and lateral loading at the same time.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit like rubbing.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Your tummy in your tummy head.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And these these things, like you get sometimes you get them, they align and you get big loads, other times they're out of phase.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've seen James doing that in product development.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not very good at it, but I'll give it a crack.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we we put some testing through.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: When we did the the V3 Plus and we went and and we we retested it, we actually did it with um with our new owners, Auto Pacific Group, before we were part of it, because they had the test lab that were able to do it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we had to we had to um we had to change the we had to improve the toe pin, we put some radiuses underneath it because the the big thing that was happening on the on the first gen prototypes that we had, the top would pop off the toe pin.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's quite a it's quite a reversal of the force, and then these then the pivots on the side they're different on the DF45 to the 35 where they all key in.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So otherwise it was the weirdest things, things you'd never see in the field occur during this test and stuff unscrews and all types of stuff.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: We had to we have to modify clamp loads with toe pins.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it was a reasonable job, but it's um it's been a pretty robust product.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's more than just a a stick and certification on the same product.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, there's obviously a lot more.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: The shank on the DO45, is it thicker?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I bought an American truck and they have the American tow hitch, is that sort of what it's built for?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, so it's from memory, uh, it's inch and a quarter.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because this is seven eighths on the three and a half, it's inch and a quarter on that, because you have it is bigger, yeah.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because you it's rep it replicates the 70mm ball.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh right, yes.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because yeah, I think um tightening torque something ridiculously insane, like 700 newton meters.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's got to have quite a massive thread on it to be able to be able to hold it.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: So just talking about that, so on my F-150, because I've got to tow the 22 around because it's our premium van that we've just released, and it's gonna live in my driveway for sure.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do I have to talk up the nut to 700 newtonmetres?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: You should you you should try, certainly try.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: You need a very long bar.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: Strong eye bottom.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have to go work it out.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna have to go buy something like uh maybe you could lift the maybe you could lift the to the ball of the 22 and just muscle up a bit.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Very interesting.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's really cool.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: So testing, let's let's go back to the rat runs and what's involved with those, because you know, you I love how candid you guys on those videos.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: There's all the series on YouTube, like you show all the detail.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: You've got cameras obviously running running full-time on all the components that you're actually testing.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you guys show that when things break or fail, this is what's happened, and we're gonna go and take that and change it.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: But um tell us how the need for that came about.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so like I mentioned earlier, it was it was a case where we were developing these products for an off-road market, we'd never done it ourselves, and you know, you have you have problems with your products, every everybody does, and they say, you know, well, I was doing the Strazlecki track, and you know, all of a sudden this came off.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you you know, you and you don't really know what these roads are like, you're imagining it's the you know, it's it's a road from hell, and it's like, well, we better go and start doing this.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we understand um do we need to add extra things into our development process?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: But if nothing else is understand what our customers, how they use their products and what they're facing.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think that's different to relying on a lab test?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: It it it's all the it's all the variables.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you can the lab test is what you put into it.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can make the lab test as easy or as difficult as you want, and it'll tell you varied results.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Until the rubber meets the road, you don't actually know.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and most of the time it's fine, or it's when you come around the corner and there's a great big washout and you get it 100 kilometres an hour and well, you've got a thousand K's of dust knocked into the hitch, and is it going to latch the same way?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's it's a good point you bring that up because that was what we found in the first route run that the first Gen DO35 for like the first month or two of production didn't have this little O-ring around the top there.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we did um we went up to the Cape and all the bull dust, we didn't have a cap on it at the time.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And all the bull dust went in there and it and it like created a um like a ceramic puck in there.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: And jammed itself.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there we were at Punsham Bay with a hammer trying to smash our new product to pieces, trying to separate the two things.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and that was kind of where you go, well, you know, this is the bit you don't get.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very true.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the other thing that I've found is particularly for new engineers coming into the business, if you're not, if you haven't done that kind of these places, how do you know what to design for?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or how important it is.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we talk about it all the time at work that you know, our customers that it's not like no, they've their TV's failed and you can't watch Netflix tonight.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: It is a case of our customers are on their holiday.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: It might be life savings, it's a trip of a lifetime, and we don't want to be the thing which causes them to stop.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't hit your caravan up to come home, that's gonna be the problem, right?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and same philosophy for the for the suspension range as well.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've got to get them there, you've got to get them, get them back, and or you want to be unnoticeable.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: So that Cape York trip was one of the first ones you did.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: Was there anything else sort of that really stood out that came out of that trip?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the first one was the first time you played with shock absorbers as well.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um the effect of valving a body size on temperature of the shock absorber.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can make a shock absorber last forever if it doesn't do anything, because if it doesn't damp, it doesn't create heat.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got to manage heat.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I I remember we were lying at the side of the road changing shock absorbers out in 40 degree heat and sending the car up and down, just seeing what would happen, what the change in temperature was like.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: So that comes down to having the sensors use, temperature sensors, pr pressure sensors, or what are the type of some of the tools you use?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, early on it wasn't that it wasn't that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Fancy.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh, that was hot.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got obviously we've got a we've got a bit more refined.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or there's oil everywhere.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that one has a lot of work.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So but yeah, these these days we run MoTec data logging.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, we've got infrared temperature sensors that measure body tempts of shock absorbers, um, gforce into the into the arm, into the body, whether what the position is, how much travel it's consuming, and that type of stuff.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Vaughan, though that remote area testing, you know, something that you've done since the start of the business, really.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: What have have there been some real revolutionary uh awakenings that we've discovered along our trips?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um nothing that comes to mind at the moment, but like Andrew said, you know, the importance of actually going out and and using the product.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, yeah, you don't know what you don't know, but once you're out there using it, things do happen.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: We've talked about it in podcasts with Banksy where we've had feedback from owners' groups.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's probably a different different style of feedback where people are talking about the use of it and how they apply using the kitchen outside or whatever, and they want to draw here or they want to this or that.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: I know that's where we've had some big change in the past, but I'm not really aware of any situations that we've had, certainly not failures or anything like that, where we've had to come back and redesign product or anything, but no, that's correct.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and we do take it out a lot, but also, you know, I'm a bit risk-adverse, so I don't treat it like you stolen.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: You're the bloke flooring it through the creeks and the rivers and from my point of view.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: You drive hardest out of all of us.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just I remember um we were at the big red bash one year, and some guy had bought a brand new Ford something, and he also had like an XT-12, and his claim to fame was he broke his Ford on his way coming uh I think it was west to east, and um they went back in and collected his caravan, but the car had to stay there for a while.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, he was talking around the campfire that he just dries flat tack.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Doesn't matter what it is, it's 110 kilometers.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: So you guys had a lot in common, is that what you're saying?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're actually It's only only when the camera's on me, then I'll go a little bit crazy and then I'll tone it down, alright?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think we've got the guts to uh go too hard a bit on a bust a car.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: With the the cars tend to go before the caravans do, which is a good sign.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: They do.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking before about the owners' groups and you know what do we get out of it and when Vaughan and the team go out with the product.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: For me and Angie, you'd appreciate this too.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very different seeing what something looks like on a piece of paper, on a computer screen, even the prototype sitting there when you're looking for it the first time, it's very different than giving it to someone else, seeing them use it, seeing it out in the field, because then you can see, okay, this is this worked well, but next time we can do better.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing for us, which we get a lot of benefit out of, is that connection with our owners and the continuous improvement, we're always looking at these things and making notes, and our teams have countless folders of files of feedback, and we catalog it in a way that when we come back around to a new model development project, uh, we'll then go back through all that feedback again and further refine whatever it may be through that feedback, through those things, and because yeah, seeing it on the computer screen, seeing it as the new product as we rolled out as the prototype typically is very different to how a user sees it and uses it day to day.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: One of the one of the things that I've witnessed in my time and been on the shoots that I've been on is even just the the footholds we have now on the Forbes 11, so people can reach the unlatching pins for the hybrid roof, right?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's easy to underestimate that that's high and doesn't not get a suit everybody.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: So just a small little thing that we picked up and went, geez, that's a good idea.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Make it a bit higher, make it easier to access, it makes a big difference.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: 2024 was your big you probably your biggest rat run.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: How many people did you have on that trip?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: And and tell us a bit about it.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they can watch it on YouTube, but um it's a just getting to the start of the trip was an adventure in itself.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was um it was three cars, seven people from memory, um one one videographer.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: We had a bit of a shuttle, we changed a couple of people in and out on it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, that was um we we um this trip we went to the Gibb.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was the main part of it.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And up until um that point, we hadn't been over there, and there's a like in this kind, I don't know whether you haven't said the same thing, but kind of May to July through the Christmas holidays is when you get your warranties.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: When everybody's on the road, and maybe you guys don't get warranties.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well we do in a case.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there we um and it always and you had these like got a customer at the GIP, got a customer at the Gip, we've got another customer at the Gibbs like what in the hell is going on with this road?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've done the we've done the Cave, we've done the Strays, we've done the Udnadata, we've done Flinders, we've done Northern Ferret Trees.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what the hell is with this road?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, well, you know, we're just gonna have to go and see what um all the fuss is about.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a long way to get there.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: It is from Brisbane, isn't it?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like it's our backyard.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you you're half now and I to be honest, I actually think that could be part of what you see because um if you're coming from the east coast, you're doing thousands of kilometres before you start the Gib.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on you know what your servicing is like up to that point, is the thing a bit tired before you before you hit it.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and then you know, the um then the then the Gibb does even more, has even more fun with you.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it was um I can't remember how many kilometres it was.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was nine or ten thousand kilometers by the time we get back.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: We we broke just about everything.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um we ran out of spares.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we were planning on doing a bit more of a bit more of a run, but we um we ran out of bits to fix stuff.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided it would probably be time to go back.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_03: We're sending one of our we're sending one of our brand new gold class caravans down the Gibb.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: Might even be almost there, probably on the Gibb now as we speak with the DO35.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think it'll have on the 17, on the AC17, with Mandy and Roley.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: We can talk about we've got that in a podcast that we did a couple weeks ago, so they're getting prepped for that.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll be another case for you down the Gibb and see how that's all going.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'd like to talk a little bit about the um, I guess some of the any oh no moments, you know, on those rat runs.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Is I I sort of think what happens if something fails?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: How do you get the care of it?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you you've put all you invest all your faith into the new product that you've designed.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: You take you obviously take a few spares with you along the way.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything anything that really stood out?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um we've ripped a few mounts off the chassis along the way for um for shock absorber mounts and um at the Gibb we ripped apart off there, which which caused a bit of an issue.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: The the biggest thing is the team, the engineering team team we take is super capable.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: So to date, I touch wood, um everything, everything that's gone wrong, we've managed to get out of.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess there was one on the old gun where we cracked a cross member and we had to get it flat-bedded into Alice.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: But pretty much everything else we've kind of nursed it to the other end.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: We've I think we tack welded with a um with a battery and a stick.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, do you take a generator and a good Tig Meg wheeler?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've done some of that and we've um you know up the up the cape, one of the guys welded Shocky mount back on with a stick welder upside down.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's a case of and it's having a really competent team of people with you, and you don't don't stress it, you know.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: You just generally, you know, unless it's the cross member failure, you can um you can nurse it.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, probably you're not gonna continue doing 100 kilometres an hour.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: You might slow down a bit, but yeah, I think something to think about too is it sounds to me it was actually the trailer or a part of the trailer that was failing.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't actually uh uh cruise master component, right?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it I mean I'm I'm not gonna hide from it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: We've had cruise master components fail, like the um the one where we welded where the shock absorber mount came off.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was a that was a current product, and it turned out that it would there was some fresh parts out of our robot welder.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know whether you know robot welders they only weld where you tell them to weld.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if something changes with a jig or a part, you can you can have issues with welding.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, we found a production issue with it, you know, and uh we I I believe in being honest with what's going on, and if we've made a mistake we'll we'll fix it and that and that found that, but other times, yeah, we've had um had caravans fall apart and you know the dust extraction systems fall off roofs and like the gib had the wheel come off the back of the ram and passed us on the side of the road.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: So everything that can go wrong.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: But that happened at an old Holden that I had when I was 16.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I think um, yeah, so you know, our team does a lot of remote travel as well, but one thing we never take is like a spare hitch or a spare pin.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like from our experience, we haven't had a failure, so it's not something that's on our list um to pack as a spare part.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a really good point.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: I've never taken one.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: I've towed yeah, all around the countryside, never taken one.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: We don't we don't anymore.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean the first year that first CAPE trip when we bought this out, I had a AT35 in the toolbox of the trailer just in case.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because you hadn't really bashed it around, and but you know, it just it just doesn't create issues.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you're heading out, you said August, or you're planning on all these podcasts.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: We typically take some time to talk around future and what does the future of the industry look like?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Where is the product going?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Where are our limitations?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: From your perspective, you've been in the game a long time, you're well connected with the OEs.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: How much more extreme can we go off-road?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: What are the limiting factors and what is CruiseMaster and others doing to take it to the next level to remove those barriers?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I guess um the thing which comes up in the industry a lot is what does off-road mean?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because the the the die-hard off-roaders will say what the majority of caravanners do isn't really off-road because you're not in low range.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the damage that happens to caravans is corrugations.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's that consistent vibration, it's the fatigue that causes issues.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: What we're seeing in the market is weight, you know, as you guys are stepping into.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: The vans are getting heavier, the American trucks, probably the super duty now, is gonna increase ATM's ability for people to take more and more and more stuff.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we're gonna see a bit of a bit of a change in that.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're obviously developing new products at the moment, and we're we're focusing on just outright durability.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people are using them harder, they're weighing more, they're expecting more of it.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps one of the things that we've seen over the journey is that early on, a a person that was taking a caravan into the bush, you know, they were uh 80 hundred series owner with a Kedrin caravan, you know, of the time.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they were they were carrying spare axles and leaf springs slung up underneath because they were expecting the stuff to break.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it it caught it created a certain demographic of people that would do this type of travel.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if I'm if I'm a bit egotistical, I'd say that Cruise Master doing reliable independence in mass allowed more people, perhaps less dedicated bushies to go out.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the market has changed with your customers and the durability of your product, it gives people confidence to go out there.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what we find though is that now people are going out there and they've got zero technical capability.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: So if anything goes wrong, um it's a major issue because they can't do deal with it with themselves.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: So our focus is on how do we just, you know, double triple layer of protection to make sure that stuff just cannot go wrong because the implication of it going wrong is you know, people aren't.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: You see in those pictures where they you know they get some um tie wire and strap a log underneath a wheel to get to the town.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't happen anymore.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to see that it doesn't matter.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, so send the flatbed.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it happened up at uh the Cape for me a couple of years ago.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't on my car, but it was on one of those new import ute, but it's all right.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: So it happens from time to time.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Another consideration too is while you're beefing that up, you have to make it lighter.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the really hard bit.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: People want more with less.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and the thing that we battle, well, I'm sure you guys do as well in suspension, you know, it is it's a big weight part of your vehicle, but people don't people don't put value in the weight of the suspension.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: They put in the the value in how many lithium batteries you can put in it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I would argue, obviously, I'm slightly biased being a suspension supplier, that the thing that gets you home is not you know not the temperature of the beer in the fridge.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's good when you're stuck at the side of the road.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's the suspension and it's your it's the it's the inherent architecture of the van.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's the chassis, it's the coupling, it's the suspension.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: And they're they're all the parts.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, our taglines escape with confidence, and I think that's where it comes from.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: So if we look at the MDC product, it is built on that single lack the single frame chassis with the independent suspension.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: We've done the miles, we're taking it out, we're testing it ourselves, and we're we're telling the same stories that you guys are.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: That people we we recognise that people are going out there, they're not taking spare parts, and we don't want them to have to.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: We want to make it accessible for the less experienced to go out and do it and buy if they do want to do that.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: I guess we've now got a nationwide service repair network, and I'm sure you guys are the same.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: You can almost get a DO35 pin anywhere around the country.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: So if if you were to have a failure, it wouldn't be a big problem, and that's what we're that's the network that we're building as well.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we're on the same page.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: We'll recognise that the market wants to do it.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's how do we make them allow them to do it with confidence and capability?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think people are time poor as well, aren't they?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got a couple of weeks to get to the Cape, you don't want to spend two weeks preparing for it or three weeks.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you don't want to be a week broken down, do you?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the other thing.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to get back to work, so we've just got to make sure we're all faultless and allowing people to get away.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: All this talk about product development.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just come up with a new product for yourself and the team, Andrew.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: And talking about all those lithium batteries that I have in my caravan.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Can you develop a suspension that as it moves up and down, it actually recharges my batteries?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Almost like a bill of regenerator.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, something there that's pumping power back into my batteries, right?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because on cruising down the bumpy road, it's always going up and down.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Patent pending bought on my PS26.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Andy's just there, like madly riding notes.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, he's not, he's probably got something going.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to make sure I don't have to pay Vaughn royalty.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: A license fee.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be a race off to the patent office who can paint them first.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: Talking about the patents, what's V4 gonna look like?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Surely you've got something in the pipeline.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: We do, can't tell you.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually been quite a challenge when you when you look at it and go, how do you make it better?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because it it it is it is it is a good product.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't want to, you know, you don't want to add things which you don't need.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like um last year we bought a set of bathroom scales.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be this is a this is a tangent.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we when you started them up, you had to connect an app and register to use a set of bathroom scales.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I just kind of I always sticks in my mind that I don't want to add stuff to products, which is which is you know, ticks the box when you go, oh, it's got Bluetooth, it's got Wi-Fi.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, you don't want to make you want to make it more complicated with that type of stuff.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to add value and be simple.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you know, the things that we're focusing on is kind of easy use type thing.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's an isn't there's you know the guy did a good job of getting it to everything.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: So what I'm hearing, V4 won't have Bluetooth or Wi-Fi in the DO35.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is that weird?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm guaranteed.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a wireless connecting uh ditch.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: So do we have an app to lock it?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is it you have to register with us and you buy tokens like a BMW?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you can hitch up.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, you've expired, you cannot hitch up to God, wouldn't that be a new case?
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then you don't have internet out in the bush and so you can't hitch up because you can't buy more tokens.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Your styling doesn't work, you're under trees, whatever.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: Look, one one little last thing, I guess you were part of the Auto Pacific group.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um we touched on it a little bit earlier.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't fr from an outsider's perspective, it doesn't seem like Cruise Master has changed at all through that transition.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: You'd think that selling a private company into a you know a larger corporate may see you lose that identity.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: Is that is there sort of something going on behind the scenes?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: Are you guys comfortable?
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do they give you a bit of freedom to Yeah?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: And look, it's it's been it's been uh it's been a big journey, but I think the the the critical thing was um particularly our sales director um as part of APG Mike Taverner.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: He he recognised the the uniqueness of the business.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very easy as you as you and I've been part of it for a while, and I've been part of um acquisitions, there's very easy to bring something in and smoosh it together and lose and and lose that identity.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's been a major push to not do that.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's obviously there's been does that come from you or does that come from ABG?
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's kind it's come it's come from both, to be honest.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: The recognition of recognition on both sides.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's there's been times where you can you've had to battle stuff out and you've got to explain because that's the big thing in within private businesses, there's a lot of tribal knowledge.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now, why do you do certain things?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like um simple stuff.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: When we when we started going to caravan shows, um we the first time we rocked up there, we rocked up with jeans and a hard yakker shirt.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't because we were lazy, it was deliberate to not look like you know a corporate competitor.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you that's not written down, and that's like this is DNA stuff.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: So whilst there's a and whilst there's an understanding of you know, we don't we've got to we've got to make sure we know we don't break the business because we paid money for it, it's got a return.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what the core of the business is.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and it's been generally well respected, you know, and um I think the big thing that we've we've we've been working on and as moving forward is there's a recognition um within the business that the the innovation part that cruise master brings is big.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the investment into that has been excellent.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's continuing, and our manufacturing footprint is pretty unmatched now as well.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's been there's been there's been some some push and shove, but we've we've kind of heading in the in a really good direction now and everything's everything is kind of finding its ground.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think from my point of view, um the linchpin for me is probably Clint.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah Clint Featherstone.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Been dealing with him actually since day dot um when we first started um using the Cruise Master product.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I don't deal with him so much anymore, but when we just came out of our national conference, saw him there, you know, had a beer, how you going, mate?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: How's everything going?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think having those familiar faces, particularly with an OE, um gives us confidence that when those sort of transactions do happen, that it's just business as usual.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Clint's been with us um quite a few years now.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: He's uh I think the thing I like about Clint is he's not uh been a salesman, you can get the pushy ones, but I like how he's just he's relaxed.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, and you know, we're here to work with you, not here to it's more about the relationship rather than transaction, obviously.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, we've got to get the transaction because that's yeah that's what pays the bills, but yeah, naturally, but it's it's having the trust to keep the customer because Vaughan or James could have said, Oh, we're a bit nervous about this, what's gonna happen?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_03: Are they gonna yeah, look at profitizing, profiteering over the over the product, but you've certainly stayed true to the what what the company's tried to develop and build, which is evident, I think, because it hasn't changed at all.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: From my perspective, and Andrew, I've known you for well over ten years, I think.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, from an outsider looking in and knowing the journey that you've been on and going from that family-owned business to now being part of Auto Pacific Group, I can see as an outsider the influence that Auto Pacific has had on Cruise Master in a positive sense as well.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: The capability, the global supply chain connections that Auto Pacific Group have, the the testing capability, you can see that in the rate in which your innovation has progressed, some things you're looking at differently, the partnerships you guys have teed up.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess from an outsider looking in, that's both that's exciting for you that you had probably these things back in the family-owned Cruise Master day that are always on the wish list but couldn't get around to for certain reasons, and having Auto Pacific involved have allowed you guys to evolve significantly.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: The the supply chain side of things is is excellent.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think from uh just hearing you talk, then I think one of the things for me personally is as a you know a small family business, you have a certain mindset.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think my professional development has improved, definitely, as part of being part of the bigger business, seeing things in a different way, you know, making and and um being able to pull on these resources, I think is um it's a really strong position for the business moving forwards.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it looks like you've got a pretty strong and solid future ahead for the business and a nice footing, obviously, and big active market and long-term suppliers and customers in the form of MDC like us.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: So it's um the future looks pretty exciting for you guys.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're looking forward to seeing what new products are coming out soon, too.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh well, let us know, can you?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let us know when they come.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: Just as a when might we start seeing some of these?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um hoping to see some stuff towards the end of the year.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: Exciting.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, cool.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: All right, we'll keep our eyes peeled and um I'm sure we'll hear about them pretty soon.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a uh new project on the agenda just have through having this podcast.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, James does all the development of our product.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we've just bought out a four and a half ton ATM um gold class caravan 22 foot.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: When he's going to make me a 32-foot quad axle, what does he actually have to take into account?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh definitely fit cruise master.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that was gonna be the first answer.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, you gotta you've got to throw it in there.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: A dual hitch.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's the DO40.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: DO 60.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's the double D.45, right?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that that was that was actually the first cut thing that made it.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the VCO18.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's made for um made for the councils to fit the NATO ball.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, it's uh is the next trajectory after four and a half, six tons.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna buy 2500 Chev and take it in.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna be the standard view.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: We need some more trucks for the business, don't we?
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Some more Banksy trucks.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: I can see you in one of those.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's exciting times.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hey, look, you might see us out on the road with a jewel hitch or something like that or a DO60, who knows?
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: But look, Andrew, thank you very much for joining us today.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's been really interesting and um another great, I guess, little Aussie success story.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: So thanks for sharing your insights and coming on.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: No problem, appreciate it.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, nice and easy, this.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, James, for being on again, and thank you, Vaughan, for your time as well.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Sam.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks everyone for watching.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: Please like, please subscribe if you're enjoying what you're seeing.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: And check out our range of off-grid down under videos where we take our product out in the field.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_03: We do our remote area testing as well.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, and by all means, check out some of the cruise master stuff that's up there as well.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's really exciting and great content.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, thank you for joining us.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.