Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 21 October

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 21 October · The Bolt Report

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Tonight I'll play some of the very moving and distressing
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: update that Phil Haynes gave on his wife Helen a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: couple of hours ago on this brutal attack that has
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: now cost her both her legs. Plenty more tonight also,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: including One Nation's new leader in New South Wales and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Gemma and Caroline. But let's get straight into it. Two
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: things about the reaction to the horrific attack on Monday
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: on independent MP Helen Haynes. After, you know, how she
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: was rammed again and again by a car driven allegedly
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: by Brendan Nugent. Well, the first thing is that the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Prime Minister was today totally exposed as a hypocrite. Anthony
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Albanese has been telling us we must now cool the
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: temperature of this debate. Maybe I shouldn't criticise him as
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: a hypocrite, but today he was confronted by the hypocrisy
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I mentioned on Monday, that his office last month itself
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: spread a dirt file on Haynes to journalists. After Haynes
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: dared criticise Albanese's dodgy $ 6 million grant to the Marrickville
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Golf Club near his home, falsely claiming he.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Had no role in giving.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: The grant, falsely claiming he wasn't a member of the
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: club and hadn't set foot in it.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Sports Roots was pork barrelling by deception. This is pork
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: barrelling by design.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Now, Albanese's dirt file implied that Haynes herself had a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: hidden conflict of interest in grants that she'd asked for,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: but it didn't offer a skerrick of proof. Now, here
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: is how Albanese responded to that today, refusing to admit
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: it actually played this dirty trick.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: Were you aware or give approval to your office to
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: distribute to the press gallery information about Helen Haynes, about
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: grants that she'd sought after she criticised you over the
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: $ 6 million Marrickville grant?
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Helen Haynes is a good local member. She puts forward
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: applications like other members do for grants and that's what
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: good local members do.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: So did the office send that out? Do you regret
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: that in hindsight, given the events of recent days?
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: Well, Helen Haynes is a strong advocate for her community.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Isn't that pathetic and gutless? But is he totally ignoring
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the question? The answer is, yes, it did send that out.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And pretending the dirt file was actually some kind of
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: tribute to Haynes, not a smear. I'm going to give
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: you a contrast. On Monday, I attacked a One Nation
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: cartoon that mocked Senator... Jackie Lambie, for having a sensitive
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: medical condition, I said it was cruel, it was shameful.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: The very next night, Hanson fronted up, took responsibility and apologised.
• 3:06
  Speaker 6: I respect people's views and opinions out there and it
• 3:12
  Speaker 6: wasn't as tastefully done as it could have been and
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: I do apologise for that.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: But as you just saw, Albanese did not have that
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: same integrity. He did not take responsibility. He did not
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: apologise like a man. Or in this case, did not
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: apologise like Pauline Hanson. He said, spin, spin, dishonest spin.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Story of this government. But there is something else that's
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: very strange about the reaction to the attack on Helen Haynes.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: You are now being manipulated, and by so many people.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: The truth is.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: All we really know so far about this attack is
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: that Haynes, a very gentle, independent politician, was rammed repeatedly
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: by a car.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Driven, allegedly, by Brendan Nugent. This is him years ago.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: We also know Nugent seemed out of his head, affected
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: by drink, drugs, mental illness, which is reportedly why police
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: couldn't interview him that night. Today in court, the magistrate
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: confirmed Nugent seemed to have some mental instability. And his
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: lawyer said he had a neurological condition. So a picturesque
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: building here.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Isn't it?
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: On top of that, add that neighbours have also told
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: reporters that Nugent had become increasingly erratic and aggressive and
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: possibly schizophrenic and had used marijuana to control chronic pain.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: In fact, today police also charged him with cultivating marijuana.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Nugent himself has posted that he was also on a
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: disability pension and broke.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Now, add all that up.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: We have here a picture of a wreck of a man,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: probably mentally unstable, seemingly not in his right mind at
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: the time. And what's more, Helen Haynes was a good
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: friend of his father and stepmother. So on this wreck,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: on this tragedy, on these circumstances, we have Politicians and
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: journalists and activists all trotting out their pet theories to
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: convince you to back their agenda. One theory is we've
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: got to control our social media.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: We had Anthony Albanese's system in a Julian.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Hill today flogging the government's digital duty of care bill.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: But where's the evidence that the internet inspired Nugent to
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: allegedly drive into Haynes? We also had leftists suggesting that
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: One Nation was to blame.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: One Nation!
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: At least in part.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Labor MP Mike Freelander, for instance, raged S to stop,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: particularly the disparaging and hateful rhetoric from fringe parties like
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: One Nation. And ABC host Raph Epstein wondered, yes, if
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: blame could indeed be pinned on One Nation.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: Does One Nation play a role in amplifying any dangerous rhetoric?
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: In fact, Nugent hated One Nation and is a global
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: warming crusader. Why would he then drive into a politician,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: oppose the One Nation policies and demanding action on global warming?
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: We're also told this attack proves the left is dangerous.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And it is true that the left is becoming violent.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: It is also true. that Nugent was a pro-Palestine hater
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: of Israel, an anti-logging fanatic, a follower of multiple green sites.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: All true. But again, why.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Would a leftist drive his car into a politician like
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Helen Haynes, who is a climate change activist allied to
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: the Teal Independents?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Doesn't make sense.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: And we're told this attack proves that political debate is
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: too heated. Albanese, he says, turn the temperature down. His
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: health minister, Mark Butler, says the hate has never been
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: so bad.
• 7:08
  Speaker 6: We've all seen a level of often hate and disrespect
• 7:13
  Speaker 6: and intolerance in our political debate that we never really
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: used to see here in Australia.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: But did Nugent, who's disturbed and perhaps drugged, that may
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: be schizophrenic and is poor and is in pain, really
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: tune into the debates between politicians and, as a consequence...
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: run down one of the least offensive of them, one
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: of the most polite politicians we have. And is it
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: true that political debate has become more toxic and must
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: be tamed? Our second longer serving Prime Minister, John Howard,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: said he doubts that and he'd probably know, having had
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: to wear a bulletproof vest when he pushed for gun control.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: And then there's this.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Is it a coincidence that Politicians shouting loudest for a
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: kinder debater are the ones who tend to be under
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: fire for making us poorer and more divided by their
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: catastrophic policies and mismanagement. Are they trying to dodge some
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of the tough criticism that they deserve? As it happens,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I actually agree that we do need more civility in politics.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Parts of the left are getting too extreme and violent.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Social media is weaponising bullies and thugs. Our culture is
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: becoming more brutal and politicians are in more danger. But so,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: of course, are Jews. So are salespeople at Bunnings and
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: in supermarkets now. And so are shoppers, especially in Melbourne
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: malls these days. And so are homeowners facing so many
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: violent home invasions. I can add myself to the list.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I've been attacked in the street, have been threatened with death,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: have been all sorts of things. But does Nurgent prove
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: any of this? Does this broke and mentally unstable disability
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: pensioner using schizophrenia-inducing drugs prove anything other right now in
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the knowledge we have than that there is always going
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to be some people out there twisted out of shape
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: and dangerous? Now, I agree, let's now fight for a
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: kinder society. Let that be our way of making something
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: good out of this horrific attack on a good woman,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: whose five words to the people who rushed to her
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: help were, thank you, you lovely people. But as yet,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: no one can make sense of this attack. So no one,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: at first start, should be shamed out of a vigorous debate,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: which is the heartbeat of democracy.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And our surest way to the truth. Helen Haynes' husband, Phil.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Today gave an update on her condition, and this is
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: a month before they were to celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary.
• 10:11
  Speaker 7: What took place on Monday was a horrendous incident, and it's,
• 10:16
  Speaker 7: as you know, caused Helen significant injuries. As a result
• 10:22
  Speaker 7: of that, Helen's left leg was amputated on Monday. We
• 10:27
  Speaker 7: had been hoping that her right leg would be saved,
• 10:31
  Speaker 7: but as of this afternoon or this morning, the surgeons
• 10:34
  Speaker 7: had to also remove her right leg. But the good
• 10:39
  Speaker 7: news in all this is Helen is alive and she's stable.
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: That is the most important thing for our family. And
• 10:48
  Speaker 7: I think when we reflect and talk about and think
• 10:50
  Speaker 7: about Helen, the two most important parts of Helen for
• 10:54
  Speaker 7: us as a family are her heart and her mind.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Her heart is huge.
• 11:02
  Speaker 7: She is a very compassionate, caring, loving person, incredibly supportive
• 11:07
  Speaker 7: of all around her, her family, her community, anybody she
• 11:11
  Speaker 7: comes across. And her mind, she has the sharpest intellect ever.
• 11:16
  Speaker 7: She has always had the most intense desire to learn,
• 11:18
  Speaker 7: to read, to synthesise and to understand what's going on.
• 11:24
  Speaker 7: We are grateful and thankful that at this stage both
• 11:28
  Speaker 7: her heart and her mind are in good shape. We
• 11:30
  Speaker 7: have had thousands upon thousands of messages of love and
• 11:33
  Speaker 7: support and I can only say how much a difference
• 11:36
  Speaker 7: that makes to all of us. So I thank all
• 11:38
  Speaker 7: those people for what they are doing and I ask
• 11:40
  Speaker 7: them to keep doing it. Helen's road to recovery will
• 11:44
  Speaker 7: be long and difficult But we know she.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Is a fighter. We love flowers. She loves flowers.
• 11:51
  Speaker 7: But it's a bit difficult to look after many bunches
• 11:53
  Speaker 7: of flowers. So we will ask people if they would
• 11:55
  Speaker 7: like to support Helen financially to make a donation to
• 11:59
  Speaker 7: Save the Children Fund. Please keep sending Helen your love
• 12:04
  Speaker 7: and our family as well.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Joining me is the political panel, Peter McGoran, former Federal
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Nationals Minister, and Michael Costa, former New South Wales Labor Treasurer. Peter,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: this attack has profoundly shocked and scared a lot of politicians.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: What does it, in fact, prove to you?
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot to unpack from your editorial, of course, Andrew,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: and I would agree with each of the contributory causes
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: that explain much of the background, although it doesn't explain fully,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: at least, the individual allegedly causing the horrendous issues, mental health, drugs,
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: and the two are so related, the bile and hatred
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: of much of social media. social isolation. You could add
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: weak courts and woke police forces. But for politicians, the debate,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: John Howard's perfectly correct, the debate between politicians is not
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: obviously more dangerous in its tone or its intent than
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: than it was in past years. Sure, there's more vulgarities
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: and there is some more personalisation, but it was hot
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: and ready, particularly during the Tampa, the turn back the boats.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: So I don't think it's the politicians that set off
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: the alleged attacker in this instance, or in other cases
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: and crime in the streets and so on. It's going
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: to take us along. But one thing's for sure, Andrew,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: and I think you're alluding to this. Australia is at
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: a tipping point. We either begin to address a range
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: of issues, economic and social and health, as you suggest,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: or we're going to go the way of the worst
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: of the European countries.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, How about tougher drug laws? That
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: might be a lesson out of this. I don't know.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: But the point is, I think a lot of people, Michael,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: are seeing in this, whether correctly or not, a symbol
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: of their real concerns about where Australia is going now,
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: whether it's caused by this or not, whether it's caused
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: this or not, the incivility, the hatred, the enjoyment of rage,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: all that is really frightening people now.
• 14:49
  Speaker 8: Well, that's true, Andrew, but I totally agree with your editorial.
• 14:52
  Speaker 8: I think it's up to the courts to decide what
• 14:55
  Speaker 8: the causes here were, not people to speculate with their
• 14:58
  Speaker 8: own agendas, and that's what's happening. I think you're absolutely
• 15:01
  Speaker 8: right to call out the hypocrisy, particularly from the Prime Minister.
• 15:04
  Speaker 8: I mean, you know, when I heard him speak, it
• 15:06
  Speaker 8: seemed to me he was peddling another slogan. I mean,
• 15:08
  Speaker 8: people forget... The tones are set by somebody, and this
• 15:13
  Speaker 8: Prime Minister has set the tone from the beginning of
• 15:17
  Speaker 8: his term. I mean, the division around the voice, the
• 15:21
  Speaker 8: fact that it's just been exposed that he was attacking
• 15:24
  Speaker 8: somebody that's now in a critical condition because she dared
• 15:29
  Speaker 8: to ask questions about grants. I mean, you know, this
• 15:33
  Speaker 8: deflection that's going on seems to me to be really
• 15:37
  Speaker 8: the core of people's distrust of politics in this country,
• 15:42
  Speaker 8: the insincerity that you see. And look, I might mention
• 15:45
  Speaker 8: the Greens. I mean, I see Green MPs or former
• 15:49
  Speaker 8: Green MPs out there calling, you know, for a toning
• 15:52
  Speaker 8: down of the temperature.
• 15:54
  Speaker 9: Yet on Australia Day, they're out there, you know, ranting
• 15:57
  Speaker 9: about the colony, you know, giving comfort to vandals that
• 16:01
  Speaker 9: are destroying national monuments, you know, supporting the demonstrations by
• 16:06
  Speaker 9: people who are giving.
• 16:08
  Speaker 8: Comfort to terrorists. I mean, you know, the hypocrisy across
• 16:11
  Speaker 8: the board is just rank. And that's why people hate
• 16:14
  Speaker 8: politicians as a general class. And I think we should
• 16:17
  Speaker 8: just wait till the courts decide this.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Peter, to something that Michael just mentioned there, the Prime Minister,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I showed you the clip, not confessing to putting out
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: that dirt file on Helen Haynes in retaliation for her
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: criticising the grants that he was giving out, certainly not
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: apologising it. In fact, implying dishonestly it was somehow a
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: tribute to her effectiveness as a politician, a tribute to
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: her work.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Your response?
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: He demeaned himself. and the office of Prime Minister by
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: his dissembling... I've never seen a politician who'll try to
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: tell you black is white and it's night, not daytime,
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: that I have from Prime Minister Albanese. And as a result,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: he thinks we're fools. How else do you explain One
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Nation's growth and... outright threat to the Labor Party, except
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: people are not being fooled. And he makes the situation
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: worse on numerous occasions by digging in. He should have apologised,
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: as you said earlier on. As far as dirt sheets go.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: That would have been on the lighter side. Some of
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: it was almost satirical. What it did, as you know, Andrew,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: was it listed all the grants that Helen Haynes had
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: supported in her electorate, like any local member does, and
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: then challenged her what due diligence had she done. Had
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: she received free bottles of wine because of her support
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: for the wine industry? Was she getting free chairlifts because
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: she wanted to support a project in developing her ski fields?
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: Absolute childish attacks by someone in his office. And he
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: very likely, Albanese, didn't even know of it, let alone
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: approve it. But because he won't take responsibility and fess
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: up immediately, this story is going to go on and on.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: An apology would have suited him much better. And of course, Michael,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: as you again suggested, his honesty is an issue.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: This is the guy who said he didn't fall off
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: a stage.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: He didn't lie about his tax proposals, he just changed
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: his mind, he just changed his position, et cetera, et cetera.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: It all comes when today's News 24 poll shows, for
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: the first time, Labor no longer leads in the polls,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: even after preferences, 50-50 with the coalition, if you can
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: actually sensibly guess of what the preference flows really are
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: with one nation there. But even on the primary vote,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: it is terrible news for Labor.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: But also encouraging a bit for the coalition. One nation,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Labor and the Greens, all falling by a point. One
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: nation still ahead at 27%. Labor now down to an
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: astonishing low of 23%, with the coalition up by two
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: to 22, I think it is. What does all this
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: tell you?
• 19:14
  Speaker 8: Well, it clearly tells us the government's on the nose,
• 19:16
  Speaker 8: but we already know that. The real worry here, of course, Andrew,
• 19:20
  Speaker 8: and you've heard me on this before, I mean, some
• 19:22
  Speaker 8: of these things are within the margin of error. And
• 19:24
  Speaker 8: I don't know how anybody attributes preferences from One Nation
• 19:29
  Speaker 8: across the board, given that they haven't had a track
• 19:32
  Speaker 8: record in relation to those preferences. But look, the government's
• 19:35
  Speaker 8: on the nose. People don't trust the system. One Nation's
• 19:38
  Speaker 8: support will grow. Unfortunately, the Greens are also growing because
• 19:42
  Speaker 8: people from the left are also disillusioned with Labor left
• 19:46
  Speaker 8: and are moving towards the extremes. But, you know, the
• 19:49
  Speaker 8: government got real problems, but he's still the preferred Prime Minister.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's in a three-way contest, so I'm not
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: quite sure that is a valid thing. I think it's
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: almost like the French, you know, polls where you've.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Really got to think what would happen.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: if they came down to just two candidates you had
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: to choose between.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Anyway, look, I've just got the graphic up now.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Labor 24, Coalition 23, just one point behind. So quite fascinating.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I thought the Coalition were done and dusted.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: They're coming back. Well, to some, quite a bit, I
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: would have thought.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, Peter, if Labor does now want to
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: give voters a scapegoat because it's in real strife, I
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: think there's still a bit in denial, but if they
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: want a scapegoat, Treasury Jim Chalmers is sure being set
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: up for the fall. And it's not just by some
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: in Labor. I mean, you know, there are people in
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Labor that are trying to edge him out the door.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: There's respected economist Professor Richard Holden. He now writes that
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: it is time for Chalmers to go. He has failed.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: He should be replaced.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Is he right? Definitely.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: The drums are beating within the Labor Party. But, of course,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: who replaces him? And the good professor, love his work, Holden,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: went on to suggest that candidates to replace him could
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: be Chris, the Energy and Environment Minister, Chris Bowen.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: Mark Butler, I think he said, too.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but Mark Butler has no economic credentials. He did
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: law in the liberal arts. The one who would shift
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: the dial, in my opinion, and would be the Liberals'
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: worst possible result is, of course.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Andrew Charlton.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: He's been in Parliament. more than four years. He's almost 50,
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: so he's not a boy wonder. He has got economic
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: credentials from Oxford, from Sydney University. He's written books. He's
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: not an egghead. He started a small business that was
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: acquired at a good profit. He's worked in corporations. He's
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: level and he's a very good communicator. If they don't
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: put Andrew Charlton in to replace the permanently damaged Jim Chambers,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: then they've got no hope.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, of course, you've still got to get past
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the Labor Party policies that have to apply, like global
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: warming policies. Peter McGoran, Michael Kosta, thank you very much
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: to you both. After the break, one thing, one nation
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: did get right. The man it picked to lead the
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: party in the New South Wales election, in my opinion.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Where's he come from? He's up next.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I said months ago that One Nation has to make
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: a change. Fewer stunts, more grunt. Less stupid, more smart.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: They had our attention, now they had to win our trust.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, just look at how One Nation is going
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: from having Barnaby Joyce there with his experience and his
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: common sense. And all that's another reason why One Nation
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: trashing Jackie Lambie's medical condition was not just cruel but stupid,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: forcing Pauline Hanson to yesterday apologise. Now, One Nation does
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: get some things right along the lines I suggest, and
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: I think one was recruiting Mike Newman as head of
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: its New South Wales branch ahead of the election there
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: next March. Mike Newman, thank you so much for your time. Look,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: we've had contact for quite a while. So, you know,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: you've had zero political experience, although I did note that
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: you watched your father trying to clean up the ABC
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: when he was chairman. And you've worked as a New
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: South Wales Senior Trade Commissioner in Japan and Korea. That, though,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: is not the obvious CV from a One Nation politician.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: So why did you put up your hand?
• 23:59
  Speaker 10: Well, thanks, Andrew, and good to be with you and
• 24:01
  Speaker 10: your viewers tonight. I was a Liberal voter pretty much
• 24:06
  Speaker 10: all my life, but the question was that I didn't
• 24:09
  Speaker 10: lead the Liberal Party, the Liberal Party left me. So...
• 24:12
  Speaker 10: I got in conversations with One Nation before, I guess,
• 24:17
  Speaker 10: the momentum took hold, because I really thought that there
• 24:20
  Speaker 10: was something afoot here, that something was really, this was
• 24:23
  Speaker 10: a party that I could get my teeth into, work
• 24:26
  Speaker 10: with and get to the position where hopefully we could
• 24:29
  Speaker 10: form government by bringing a completely different type of policy suite,
• 24:34
  Speaker 10: which wouldn't be hampered by internal factions.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Now, you know, you've actually had to go from a
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: standing start. And another problem is you're not running against
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: an obviously failing government. It's not like Pauline Hanson against
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: the Albanese government or your Victorian colleagues against that terrible
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Labor government.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: It's difficult. What's the biggest challenge you've faced?
• 25:02
  Speaker 10: Well, I don't know so much of a challenge. I
• 25:06
  Speaker 10: find it actually quite interesting that One Nation has no
• 25:10
  Speaker 10: seats in Upper or Lower House in New South Wales,
• 25:12
  Speaker 10: it were the talk of Parliament. Last month, One Nation
• 25:15
  Speaker 10: was mentioned 46 times in Question Time. And when I
• 25:22
  Speaker 10: went to Parliament House the other day, I wasn't thrown
• 25:24
  Speaker 10: out as much as that I was invited to be there.
• 25:27
  Speaker 10: But still, it was all about One Nation and not
• 25:30
  Speaker 10: the coalition. So really, We do think that we're living
• 25:34
  Speaker 10: rent free in the heads of the Labor Party, which
• 25:37
  Speaker 10: is good because we're offering something completely different. I'm pretty
• 25:41
  Speaker 10: sure that they do not know how to combat us
• 25:43
  Speaker 10: because we are not sort of a typical political force.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: You're not ranting and making some outlandish comments as well.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: That said, you're still third in the latest poll, but,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: you know, very respectable numbers. Labor has said, well, you know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: there you go, you're making big promises, Mark Newman, but
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: you won't say what they'll cost. So they've said, we're
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: going to change the law so that One Nation as well,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: and you who aren't yet in Parliament, you guys can
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: also submit policies to the Parliamentary Budget Office for free
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: so they can help you out with the costings.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Sounds a good idea, isn't it? Are they trying to
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: be helpful?
• 26:28
  Speaker 10: Well, the funny thing was I got a message from
• 26:31
  Speaker 10: Treasurer Mookie's Chief of Staff in a very collegiate kind
• 26:34
  Speaker 10: of sincere fashion, and then within 12 hours it was splashed,
• 26:38
  Speaker 10: I think, in the Sydney Morning Herald that One Nation
• 26:40
  Speaker 10: doesn't want to get their policies costed, and it came across.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: As a bit of a beat-up.
• 26:44
  Speaker 10: But I would say the most important thing about the
• 26:46
  Speaker 10: PBO campaign is not that we have an issue with
• 26:49
  Speaker 10: them costing it. The problem is that they do not
• 26:52
  Speaker 10: take into account second order effects. So yes, you can
• 26:55
  Speaker 10: say it'll cost X billion to cut payroll tax, but
• 26:58
  Speaker 10: you won't say how much that will be on the
• 27:01
  Speaker 10: other side of the ledger, increasing the amount of revenue
• 27:04
  Speaker 10: that comes through other taxes through just far higher business activity.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's a good idea to get to know
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: what a policy costs, at least voters would get some reassurance.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: And couldn't you just ask.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: The PBO, the Parliamentary Budget Office, look, I want you
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: to cost this proposal and I also want you to
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: model what it would cost, what it would gain, what the,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: you know, as you suggested, what would be the second
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: order gain in that?
• 27:33
  Speaker 10: Well, sadly, their purview is not to do that. And actually,
• 27:37
  Speaker 10: if we won government, we'd like the PBO or another
• 27:40
  Speaker 10: body similar to that to actually not so much just
• 27:44
  Speaker 10: do cost things, but look at the benefits, because the
• 27:47
  Speaker 10: benefits of cutting taxes will be immense, especially in Australia
• 27:53
  Speaker 10: and in New South Wales, that is tax to death,
• 27:55
  Speaker 10: regulated to death, And the businesses that we speak to
• 27:58
  Speaker 10: out in the hustings are all telling us we just
• 28:01
  Speaker 10: need the government to get off our back. Every single
• 28:03
  Speaker 10: day there's something new that they need to do. I mean,
• 28:06
  Speaker 10: I'll give you a good example. My cafe who has
• 28:08
  Speaker 10: a roaster, he does his own roasting. He had to
• 28:11
  Speaker 10: get a certificate for his local council to the emissions
• 28:15
  Speaker 10: of his afterburner for the roaster. He had to pay
• 28:18
  Speaker 10: $ 5, 000 to a consultant who didn't visit the site, took
• 28:22
  Speaker 10: no measurements, just to give him a bit of paper,
• 28:24
  Speaker 10: five grand. And this is the sort of thing that
• 28:26
  Speaker 10: if you open a cafe in New South Wales, you
• 28:28
  Speaker 10: need 25 bits of government paper to open it. It's
• 28:32
  Speaker 10: just simply ridiculous and killing business.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my former editor at The Herald Sun, Bruce Baskett,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: or The Herald, has put me.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Wants to put me in touch with a businessman who's
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: got even crazier examples of just that in Victoria.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I must follow up on that.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Mike, if there's one thing you want to achieve in politics,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: this new.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Business that you've decided to try out, what would it be? Well,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: look at this way, Andrew.
• 29:04
  Speaker 10: We are getting out of the taxpayer's way. We are
• 29:08
  Speaker 10: getting out of the way of business. We are going
• 29:10
  Speaker 10: to be on a deregulation diet. That's very much what
• 29:12
  Speaker 10: we're trying to do, reduce taxes and let the private
• 29:15
  Speaker 10: sector do what it does best. I mean, the fastest
• 29:18
  Speaker 10: growing industry at the moment in New South Wales is
• 29:21
  Speaker 10: insolvency agencies. That simply cannot be. We had 1,600 bankruptcies.
• 29:25
  Speaker 10: So what we want to do, as I said, cut
• 29:27
  Speaker 10: payroll tax. We're going to bring accountability into the senior
• 29:30
  Speaker 10: bureaucrats with the public service. where their pay will be
• 29:34
  Speaker 10: delivered on the basis of what they deliver as opposed
• 29:36
  Speaker 10: to paying no price for being wrong. We'll have an
• 29:39
  Speaker 10: omnibus bill within 100 days to get rid of every
• 29:43
  Speaker 10: bit of net zero that festoons our legislation and regulatory
• 29:46
  Speaker 10: framework to get prices down to get business moving again
• 29:51
  Speaker 10: and be basically a totally different offer to the people
• 29:56
  Speaker 10: of New South Wales, which we think that currently, if
• 29:58
  Speaker 10: you vote for either Labor or the Coalition, you're getting
• 30:01
  Speaker 10: pretty much the same thing.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe I should let Kelly Sloan have a say on
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: that one at some stage. But, Mike, I think it's
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: a great move for One Nation to to have you there.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Let's see if you can pull it off. We'll see.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: You've got a tough row to hoe, but good luck
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Mark Newman, thank you so much.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: After the break, the ABC caught up in a fact
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: check of the list of Palestinians it claims were just
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: journalists killed by Israel. You've been lied to again and
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: again about Israel's supposed war crimes in Gaza. Now the
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: ABC has been exposed. It claimed Israel had killed 240-odd
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Palestinian journalists and listed them. The ABC even paid tribute
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: to one filmmaker, Roshni Sarraj, in 2023, saying on October 22nd,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: filmmaker Roshni Sarraj was killed in Gaza... Early this month,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Rushdie filmed material for 7.30, the ABC 7.30 report. And
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: we take this opportunity to acknowledge his passing and send
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: our condolences to his family. Well, since then, Israel's defence forces,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: the IDF, said they have evidence that Sarraj was also
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: a member of the Hamas terrorist group. And now the
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Australian Israel Jewish Affairs Council says it's much worse than that.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: The AJAC has actually checked those 240 names of Palestinians
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: and The ABC claims were journalists killed by Israel and
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: found evidence suggesting that 85 of them were actually members
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: of Islamic terrorist groups. People like Abdullah Dawish, who was
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: filmed at the October 7 massacre of Jews in the
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: uniform of Hamas's Al-Qassam brigades near a vehicle containing the
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: brutalised body of Jewish teenager Shani Lowk.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: Now, so far.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Then there's 40% of the Palestinians listed by the ABC
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: as journalists killed by Israel have in fact been identified
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: by this AJAC report as terrorists. And they include, for instance,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: Assad Shamlak of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. This AJAC study
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: has actually listed the names of those 85 so-called journalists
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: with some of the evidence that they were terrorists.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: It's on their website. Have a look.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Those highlighted are people identified independently of information from the IDF.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Joining me to discuss his findings a short while ago
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: was one of the authors of this report, Bren Carlyle,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: a Christian Zionist, actually, with the Australian Israel Jewish Affairs
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Council and a former official with both our Department of
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Home Affairs and of Foreign Affairs. Bryn Carlyle, thank you
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: so much for joining me. Look, it's easy to say,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: of course, these journalists were actually terrorists. What evidence did
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: you get to prove that? Because I note, for instance,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: that one thing you relied on were social media posts
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: of these journalists actually in uniforms or being hailed as martyrs.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: What else?
• 33:10
  Speaker 11: Well, the.
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: We started off with the IDF list. The Israel Defence
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: Force at the start of this month published a list
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: of 170 people that it had targeted on purpose because
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: the IDF claims that they were terrorists, but these people
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: moonlighted or otherwise claimed to be journalists and media workers.
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: And so the first thing we did was compare the
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: ABC list of people that the ABC claims were killed
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: journalists with the IDF list. And we found that there
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: were 85 But then we thought, well, look, if we
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: took that to the ABC, there's a good chance the
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: ABC would just say, look, um, we don't believe the
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: IDF claims. So we thought, you know, wouldn't it be
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: good if we could find definitive evidence that some of
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: these people were absolutely completely terrorists and not just, um,
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: mere allegations on paper by, by Israel. And now there's a,
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: there's an organization in America called Honest Reporting. They've done
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: a lot of work in this sort of field. So
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: we had, we started off by having a look at
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: their various reports and, um, And through them, we found
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: that there were 27 individuals on the ABC list that
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: were definitively terrorists, whether primarily 23 of them was because
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: terrorist organizations themselves had published social media posts claiming these
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: individuals as fighters, terrorists. for the organization. So, I mean,
• 34:35
  Speaker 5: you can't get any more proof than that. And then
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: the handful of others were because of social media posts
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: by their colleagues or by their families, identifying them not
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: just as martyrs, but as fighters for Hamas or for
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: Islamic Jihad or so on.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: People will say, well, what about the others on the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: IDF list? We don't trust the IDF. Do I'm unaware
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: of information that the IDF has published, and a number
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: of them that include communications that it seized in Gaza,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Hamas documents, listing them, giving payroll numbers and phone numbers,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. How conclusive do you think the
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: IDF list is?
• 35:22
  Speaker 5: Look, the IDF has been claiming for years that it
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: doesn't target civilians, it doesn't target journalists, and all of
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: the quote-unquote journalists that it's targeted in Gaza were terrorists.
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: And Western media have dismissed this out of hand from
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: the beginning. I mean, the ABC Global Affairs editor, Laura Tingle,
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: says that Israel quote-unquote murders journalists in Gaza.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: So.
• 35:47
  Speaker 5: But even before the IDF published this list, you've had...
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: Hamas and Islamic Jihad have been publishing their martyrs' notices
• 35:56
  Speaker 5: of their combatants that have been killed. And you've had
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: people take the names and the photos of these journalists
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: in full military regalia to organisations like the Committee to
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: Protect Journalists and say, listen, you've got someone on your
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: list who is clearly a terrorist. We think you should
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: take it off. And in two separate tranches, CPJ, the
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: Committee to Protect Journalists, have removed names from their list
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: when it was definitively proven that.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: They were terrorists.
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: And they're very quiet about it, right? And even the
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: ABC took some names of its own list. It didn't
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: admit it was because that these people were terrorists. They
• 36:29
  Speaker 5: just said, editor's note, we've removed some names.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: But what that shows us is that.
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: Israeli allegations have been longstanding and bit by bit these
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: allegations have been proven to And I have no doubts
• 36:45
  Speaker 5: that of the 170 names on the Israeli list, over time,
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: day by day, month by month, we'll see, if not all,
• 36:53
  Speaker 5: most of those allegations definitively proven.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Now, why did the ABC not do this work themselves
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: before claiming, oh, you know, Israel's killed all these people
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: and they're all journalists?
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Look, that's a good question.
• 37:12
  Speaker 5: If you've ever watched Senate estimates, the ABC gets a
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: bit prickly when allegations are made against it of factual errors.
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: So there's that sort of institutional factor. But the other
• 37:23
  Speaker 5: thing is, you know, when Israel released this list of
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: 170 names at the start of this month, it was
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: big news in Israel. Now, the ABC has a permanent...
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: Middle East correspondent who lives in Israel.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: So there is no doubt at all that the.
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: ABC would have been aware that this list of 170
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: names was out there. Now, the ABC hasn't even, as
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: far as I'm aware, the ABC hasn't even reported about
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: the list, which is unfortunate, much less done the investigation
• 37:50
  Speaker 5: to think, oh, well, we've been claiming that Israel murders journalists.
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: Maybe we should have a look at our own claims. Unfortunately,
• 37:58
  Speaker 5: I've seen no evidence that that has happened.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Brent Cardle, thank you so much indeed for your time.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Pleasure. Thank you.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: After the break, Gemma and Caroline on the speeches, that
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: speech I played you before about Helen Haynes from her husband.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Plus Prince Harry plays the healer. Says he wants reconciliation
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: with his family but blames someone for saying no. Now,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I showed you earlier a big chunk of that very
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: moving update that Phil Haynes gave on the condition of
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: his wife, Helen. The politician ran repeatedly by a car
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: driven into her, allegedly by a man that, well, look,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: for reasons that none of us can know, at least
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: right now. Helen Haynes has now lost both her legs,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: but thank God, not her life. Joining me are Gemma Tonini,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: columnist and communications consultant, and Carolyn Russo, commentator and president
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: of the Western Journal.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Australian Liberals.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Gemma, Phil Haynes did not tell us any lesson that
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: he took from what happened to his wife or that
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: he thought we should take. He just asked for love,
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: for messages of support, donations to the Save the Children charity.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: The Governor-General also spoke, said we had to learn to
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: disagree with civility.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: We don't in fact know yet if the tone of
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: public debate was a factor here, but if that is
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: the lesson we choose to take from this anyway, then that's.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Good, isn't it?
• 39:31
  Speaker 11: Well, absolutely it's good and I think it's a lesson
• 39:33
  Speaker 11: that we've been desperately trying to learn. Well, those of
• 39:36
  Speaker 11: us who've sort of been awake to this thing have
• 39:38
  Speaker 11: been desperately trying to learn for some time, Andrew, and
• 39:42
  Speaker 11: this is just an abhorrent, unthinkable lesson set of circumstances
• 39:47
  Speaker 11: for Helen Haynes, for her family, but for those of
• 39:49
  Speaker 11: us who can't understand how Australia got to this place.
• 39:52
  Speaker 11: And I don't, I think for her husband, I'm not
• 39:56
  Speaker 11: surprised that that's where he focused on. They would more
• 39:58
  Speaker 11: than likely still be in shock. It's not the time
• 40:01
  Speaker 11: for sort of perhaps delving into those things. But I
• 40:04
  Speaker 11: think the one observation I'd make, Andrew, is it's one
• 40:07
  Speaker 11: thing for those who are trusted and entrusted with steering
• 40:14
  Speaker 11: the good ship Australia for want of a better phrase
• 40:16
  Speaker 11: and for stewarding this country to all of a sudden
• 40:19
  Speaker 11: turn around and say oh no we need to and
• 40:21
  Speaker 11: I hate this phrase with a passion dial down the
• 40:24
  Speaker 11: heat and that's the Prime Minister's favourite saying and the
• 40:31
  Speaker 11: Daily Mail's reporting this dirt sheet that the Prime Minister's
• 40:33
  Speaker 11: office has been producing was producing three weeks ago about
• 40:37
  Speaker 11: Helen Haynes. I mean at what point do we draw
• 40:40
  Speaker 11: a line in the sand and say This government has
• 40:42
  Speaker 11: been in charge for two terms and has overseen this
• 40:47
  Speaker 11: incredible fracturing, not just of our social fabric, but the
• 40:52
  Speaker 11: tenor of discussion in this country. And we have to,
• 40:57
  Speaker 11: as electors, hold them to account. But more to the point,
• 41:01
  Speaker 11: at what point are they going to stop gaslighting and obfuscating?
• 41:04
  Speaker 11: I'm so deeply... troubled by this incident, as I think
• 41:08
  Speaker 11: all decent Australians are, but more so, I'm so angry
• 41:11
  Speaker 11: at a government that turns around, wrings its hands and says, oh,
• 41:15
  Speaker 11: we need to turn down the heat, as if it
• 41:17
  Speaker 11: has had nothing to do with the circumstances in which
• 41:20
  Speaker 11: all of these things have been festering for two terms
• 41:22
  Speaker 11: of government.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: Look, it's interesting.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: The two terms of this government, or one and a half,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: has not addressed something. I was asked last year by News24,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: so then Sky News, to film a commercial, you know,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: one of our ads, what should we.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Be focusing on this year?
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: And I said, well, to me it was the sense
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: that so many Australians have that this is no longer
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: a country they recognise, they want their country back. And
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I just think this, Caroline, brings to a head for
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: many people exactly that overwhelming sense that this country is
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: no longer anything they recognise.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: From their past.
• 42:05
  Speaker 12: Yeah, absolutely, and I look very, very difficult to disagree
• 42:08
  Speaker 12: with that point. And there's the same feeling that I
• 42:11
  Speaker 12: think Australians had last year after the Bondi terrorist attack.
• 42:15
  Speaker 12: We were like, what country do we live in that
• 42:18
  Speaker 12: you can't go safely to the beach? I mean, none
• 42:21
  Speaker 12: of us ever think... that something like that is going
• 42:24
  Speaker 12: to happen. But, you know, and we've talked about this
• 42:27
  Speaker 12: many times. Look, we all have.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Opinions, right?
• 42:30
  Speaker 12: And our opinions are our own. But it doesn't mean
• 42:33
  Speaker 12: that we're right and it doesn't mean that we are
• 42:35
  Speaker 12: good or that necessarily people who share our opinions are
• 42:38
  Speaker 12: good and people who don't share our opinions are bad.
• 42:41
  Speaker 12: And that there, I think, is something that we've really
• 42:44
  Speaker 12: lost in recent years is there is this self-righteousness attached
• 42:49
  Speaker 12: to opinions. And I think that that's very, very dangerous because,
• 42:53
  Speaker 12: you know, someone can disagree with you and you should
• 42:56
  Speaker 12: just appreciate the validity of their view, even though it's
• 42:59
  Speaker 12: not the same as yours. And I feel like as
• 43:02
  Speaker 12: a country, we have lost that ability. As far as
• 43:05
  Speaker 12: the government goes and dialing down the heat and all
• 43:09
  Speaker 12: those sorts of things, I'm sure that Christian Porter and
• 43:12
  Speaker 12: Alan Tunge and Linda Reynolds are all sitting at home
• 43:16
  Speaker 12: with a very wry smile, remembering just how kindly and
• 43:20
  Speaker 12: dialed down this government was when it was in opposition
• 43:24
  Speaker 12: and the ruthless way that they attacked those three coalition
• 43:28
  Speaker 12: members of parliament.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I also think a lot of Australians would
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: feel that this in particular situation this lack of civility
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: and lack of, oh, well, there's one side, there's the
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: other side, you have yours, I have mine. They've been
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: seeing in their face for a couple of years now
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: pro-Palestine protesters, whether you like their cause or not, but
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: feeling entitled to disrupt concerts, hound people from the stage,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: boycott things, block roads, block bridges, create havoc, occupy politicians' offices,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: smear officers with paint and whatever.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Like, it's their way.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Or you are going to be bullied and made to
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: suffer and, if possible, lose your job. This issue, this
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: one issue, has demonstrated exactly this kind of incivility, hasn't it, Gemma?
• 44:22
  Speaker 11: You're absolutely on the money, and I think there are
• 44:24
  Speaker 11: two things I want to point out right here. First
• 44:26
  Speaker 11: of all, if I remember rightly, Andrew, the Prime Minister
• 44:30
  Speaker 11: had to relocate his own electoral office because of protesters.
• 44:33
  Speaker 11: So rather than, you know, he's the Prime Minister of
• 44:36
  Speaker 11: this country, and rather than actually drawing a line in
• 44:39
  Speaker 11: the sand, he allowed himself and his staff, more to
• 44:41
  Speaker 11: the point, to be bullied out of a physical office
• 44:44
  Speaker 11: because of the behaviour of these bottom feeders who, as
• 44:48
  Speaker 11: you say, are completely entitled... The second thing that I
• 44:53
  Speaker 11: want to make an observation about the last couple of years,
• 44:55
  Speaker 11: important for people to hear me, I'm not saying necessarily
• 44:59
  Speaker 11: that the Prime Minister himself has caused these things. What
• 45:03
  Speaker 11: I am saying is his lack of leadership and his
• 45:06
  Speaker 11: government's spinelessness has allowed it to fester and grow and
• 45:10
  Speaker 11: be unchallenged. I noticed overnight, and I haven't had a
• 45:12
  Speaker 11: chance to read into the detail of it, but I
• 45:16
  Speaker 11: noticed overnight that the Italian Prime Minister, Giorgio Meloni, has
• 45:20
  Speaker 11: taken emergency laws to Parliament that has made violence at
• 45:24
  Speaker 11: protesting a new crime. So you can still protest in Italy,
• 45:28
  Speaker 11: you can protest as much as you like, but the
• 45:29
  Speaker 11: minute that you cause commercial damage, injure a police officer,
• 45:33
  Speaker 11: injure a member of public, you go to jail and
• 45:35
  Speaker 11: there's a massive fine. That's called consequences. Like, we don't
• 45:39
  Speaker 11: have consequences in life.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: No, but that's the law already. That should be the
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: law already. That seems to be symbolised.
• 45:44
  Speaker 8: That's my point, Andrew, though.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Purely symbolic.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, look, I would have thought, how about a
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: new law saying you can protest all you like, but
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: you don't block a street? I don't understand why you
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: allow people to block the street as if they're entitled
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: to the road, as if their cause is entitled to
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: them to disrupt people. That's my point.
• 46:03
  Speaker 10: Right.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Just stick on an oval or walk on the beach
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: or stand in a park or whatever.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: But talking about kindness, Caroline, or the lack of it,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Prince Harry, he trashed his family in the Oprah Winfrey show.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: He trashed them as racist.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: He betrayed private conversations with his family for mere cash
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: in his big book. You know, he trashed his brother.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: He trashed his sister-in-law, described her essentially as a bully.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: And now, back in Britain, he's posing as a healer
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: saying he wants reconciliation, but his brother, at least that's
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: who he seems to be implying, he does not.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Have a look.
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: And then people maybe look at us and go, how
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: are you going to work it out?
• 46:44
  Speaker 10: And then maybe how I see you're going to work
• 46:45
  Speaker 10: it out, maybe that will help me work my stuff out.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: How are you going to work it out? Well, some
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: people don't want it to work out. I want it
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: to work out.
• 46:52
  Speaker 11: You do?
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Of course I do.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Again, with everything else that's going on in the world,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: the most important thing is to reconcile. You know, isn't
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: it kind, Caroline, for Harry to want reconciliation, to pose
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: as the Prince of Healing without saying sorry for his
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: grotesque betrayal and promising never, ever to dish his family
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: like that in public again and to actually say a
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: lot of his claims were false?
• 47:22
  Speaker 12: I struggle to even watch that. He doesn't want reconciliation.
• 47:27
  Speaker 12: He wants to get off scot-free for his behaviour, just
• 47:29
  Speaker 12: like Gemma was talking about, no consequences. You know, he sold,
• 47:34
  Speaker 12: you know, private conversations, aired dirty laundry, has carried on
• 47:40
  Speaker 12: and made an absolute spectacle of himself since, you know,
• 47:45
  Speaker 12: they left their position as senior royals and when they
• 47:47
  Speaker 12: moved to... And now, all of a sudden, he wants
• 47:50
  Speaker 12: reconciliation and other people are the barrier. Has it ever
• 47:53
  Speaker 12: occurred to you, buddy.
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: that it's.
• 47:55
  Speaker 12: Not all about you and maybe other people are protecting
• 47:59
  Speaker 12: themselves and their families because they don't trust you. And
• 48:03
  Speaker 12: I think that's ultimately what it comes down to. Everyone
• 48:06
  Speaker 12: else is in self-preservation mode because they never know when
• 48:10
  Speaker 12: Harry's going to go bonkers again and then start selling
• 48:13
  Speaker 12: the next lot of, you know, family secrets to pay
• 48:16
  Speaker 12: for whatever lifestyle. Oh, he can just get stuffed.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: LAUGHTER I think that's pretty well said. I think I
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: put a full point right there.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: Chairman Tonnini, Carolyn DeRosa, thank you very much to you both.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: That's it from me tonight. Up next is Shari Markson.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: Good night.