Latest / Coffee and Bible Time Podcast / AI, Prayer & the Presence of God: A Guide for Today’s Believers | Dr. Drew Dickens

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AI, Prayer & the Presence of God: A Guide for Today’s Believers | Dr. Drew Dickens · Coffee and Bible Time Podcast

• 1:01
  Ellen Krause: At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
• 1:03
  Ellen Krause: Our goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living.
• 1:07
  Ellen Krause: Each week, we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk.
• 1:18
  Ellen Krause: We are so glad you have joined us.
• 1:21
  Ellen Krause: Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.
• 1:29
  Ellen Krause: I'm Ellen, your host, and our conversation today is about something relatively unchartered at this point in history, which is faith and AI.
• 1:39
  Ellen Krause: In history, which is faith and AI, I'm joined by Dr Drew Dickens, a theologian whose work sits right at that intersection of technology and spirituality.
• 1:49
  Ellen Krause: He specializes in innovative approaches to faith-based engagement and is the founder of Encountering Peace Meditation app and the Encounter podcast.
• 2:00
  Ellen Krause: Dr Dickens holds a doctorate in theological anthropology from Southern Methodist University and master's degrees from Dallas Theological Seminary and Baylor University.
• 2:12
  Ellen Krause: Today, we'll explore how to cultivate a deeper prayer life in a distracted world and how we can be prepared to navigate AI technology with wisdom.
• 2:22
  Ellen Krause: Welcome, dr Dickens.
• 2:25
  Ellen Krause: It's so exciting to have you with us.
• 2:28
  Ellen Krause: Wow, what a great topic.
• 2:31
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Ellen, it's an incredible joy and privilege and so proud of you and your team and everybody there.
• 2:37
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It's a great podcast that you've got and so excited for you.
• 2:40
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But thanks for carving out a few minutes for me today.
• 2:44
  Ellen Krause: Well, what a delight, and I personally am so fascinated by the topic of AI and faith.
• 2:53
  Ellen Krause: But I know for some people it can be uncomfortable or even unsettling.
• 2:59
  Ellen Krause: So my hope is to take this topic from a place that might be like that for some people to a place of greater understanding.
• 3:09
  Ellen Krause: But before we begin that part of the conversation, you recently came out with a prayer devotional that I had the opportunity to read and wow, it is so powerful.
• 3:21
  Ellen Krause: So I thought maybe you could just open our conversation today with a little excerpt from one of your guided prayers.
• 3:29
  Ellen Krause: Would you be willing to do that?
• 3:31
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I would love that and thank you for asking Whispers of the Spirit.
• 3:35
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And people ask me a lot because so much of my focus has been on AI and theology.
• 3:38
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And why write a book about prayer, a devotion about prayer?
• 3:39
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And it was really for me, it was.
• 3:40
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So much of my focus has been on AI and theology.
• 3:41
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And why write a book about prayer, a devotion about prayer?
• 3:43
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And it was really for me, it was a natural in my head, it was a natural transition, simultaneous focus, because as we get so mired in the technology and all of this, oh my gosh, you and I just went through how many hoops to try and make the technology work for you and I to talk today, and so it's so easy to get so exhausted and so exasperated with the whole.
• 4:03
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You know my phone's not doing that or whatever, and I thought you know what, even to myself, I just need to walk outside and walk in the grass and look up into creation and just pause and be still and know, and so this is a daily reminder for me to re-engage with God.
• 4:18
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You know, all throughout the day, without ceasing.
• 4:20
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So there are several elements of each day's kind of short devotion and this is day two, which I call basics learning to communicate Godward.
• 4:29
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And I started with Philippians 4, 6.
• 4:32
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God.
• 4:40
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And so in my introduction I said in the stillness, when your heart yearns for refuge, philippians 4 whispers a divine invitation present your request to God.
• 4:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Here lies the essence of prayer, doesn't it?
• 4:54
  Dr. Drew Dickens: An open-hearted conversation with God, where your worries, gratitude and desires intertwine in a sacred trust.
• 5:02
  Dr. Drew Dickens: In the quiet.
• 5:04
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Prayer becomes more than a ritual.
• 5:06
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It's an intimate journey through which your soul finds its authentic voice.
• 5:12
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You can release your anxieties in the landscape of worship.
• 5:14
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Well, here you lay down your troubles at the feet of the Almighty, not as an act of defeat but as a surrender, a powerful declaration of our dependence on God.
• 5:26
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And in this sacred moment, our heart swells with gratitude.
• 5:31
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Thanksgiving is the melody that harmonizes your requests, reminding you of God's past faithfulness and his unchanging nature.
• 5:41
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Reminding you of God's past faithfulness and his unchanging nature.
• 5:42
  Dr. Drew Dickens: In this symphony of supplication and thanks, we can find peace that transcends understanding, guarding our heart and mind in Christ Jesus.
• 5:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Our prayers become a sanctuary, inviting you to bring everything before the Heavenly Father, son and Heavenly Holy Spirit, one of the elements of each day's devotion that I have.
• 6:03
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I was drawn back in the 1400s.
• 6:06
  Dr. Drew Dickens: There was a Saint Ignatius of Loyola, and he was very passionate about using our imagination.
• 6:13
  Dr. Drew Dickens: When we inquire of God Ignatian spirituality, it's often called or imaginative contemplation, and I have a brief one every day.
• 6:20
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It's a great time of just closing our eyes and just resting back.
• 6:25
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Imagine a tranquil garden bathed in dawn's soft golden light.
• 6:34
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Here, in the symphony of creation, your heart unburdens its worries onto the path of prayer.
• 6:43
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I want you to see this path stretching out before you, smooth, level even.
• 6:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And each step you take down, this path of prayer you take is a whispered petition, a plea wrapped in gratitude, floating upward like the morning mist on a dove's wing, with your eyes closed, your mind's eye open, to see the Holy Spirit encasing you with the promise of the divine presence, enveloping you in a peace that transcends all understanding.
• 7:21
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And in this sacred space, on this path, lay down your worries on level ground at the foot of the cross, and allow me to close that moment in prayer.
• 7:30
  Dr. Drew Dickens: May you enter God's sanctuary with an open heart, knowing you are heard, loved, held in the presence of the Father, son and Holy Spirit, feel your anxieties dissolve into the hands of the Almighty as he reminds you that, in every moment, his grace, his love, his mercy are sufficient.
• 7:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: May the peace of the Lord, which surpasses all understanding, guard your heart and mind as you step forward into the world.
• 7:59
  Dr. Drew Dickens: May you remember not to be anxious about everything or anything.
• 8:04
  Dr. Drew Dickens: In every situation, through prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God, and may his presence be your constant companion, guiding you in every decision and calming every fear.
• 8:17
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Let gratitude fill your heart and trust in his unfailing love and provision.
• 8:22
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Now go forth in this assurance of his peace, always embracing each day with faith and courage.
• 8:30
  Dr. Drew Dickens: In Jesus' name we do pray, amen.
• 8:34
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Amen.
• 8:35
  Ellen Krause: That is so beautiful and, honestly, it's one of the deepest, most reflective, beautiful devotionals I've ever read.
• 8:46
  Ellen Krause: It truly is.
• 8:47
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Ellen, you're going to make me cry.
• 8:49
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Thank you, Glory to God.
• 8:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Glory to God.
• 8:52
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Glory to God, he is definitely at work in and through you for sure.
• 8:58
  Ellen Krause: Well, I've noticed that people who really connect with prayer, such as yourselves, often have a story behind how they got there.
• 9:07
  Ellen Krause: Could you share what your own journey into prayer has looked like over time?
• 9:18
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I'm going to cry again.
• 9:19
  Dr. Drew Dickens: My family, in so many testimonies, began.
• 9:21
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I was raised in a Christian home.
• 9:22
  Dr. Drew Dickens: We were not active in church, but we were just good neighborhood Christian folks and both of my grandparents I come from a legacy of believers and I don't take that for granted.
• 9:33
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I did not have a personal walk and not to get too much in the woods but weeds.
• 9:40
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But I had some abuse in my life as a child and struggled with that silently.
• 9:48
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I felt like that was going to have to be a secret that I always carried with me.
• 9:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And I went to a Billy Graham crusade back when I was in sixth grade and was invited by some neighborhood families and went and heard that there is a God who knows me, loves me by grace, accepts me, and I was the only one to come forward in my group that day, which was not my natural bent.
• 10:09
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And so I received a little booklet from the Billy Graham team about prayer and I'd never had a personal relationship and I found a little white book.
• 10:20
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Now I have a brown one, a prayer journal, and I just started writing every day and this was sixth, seventh grade now, and so early on I felt just a calling of the Spirit to write and to engage and to encounter God and felt His loving presence in my time with Him.
• 10:38
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So that's really how it all began and I've been in vocational ministry for my gosh 25 years or so now.
• 10:46
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Prayer has been an active part of every step of that process.
• 10:50
  Ellen Krause: That's incredible and thank you for being just so authentic.
• 10:53
  Ellen Krause: I know that helps the people that are listening and myself that we all have some type of emotional trauma perhaps that we're challenged with, and just hearing how you use prayer and that it's been such a valuable part of your healing process is so encouraging.
• 11:12
  Dr. Drew Dickens: No, it was interesting that you say that because for the longest, for 20 some odd years, I was a part of an evangelism ministry and we every day engage with people on the phone, email, chat, text, whatever they were interested in learning more about a relationship with Christ.
• 11:31
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And, as was often the case, we ended every call in prayer and every conversation in prayer.
• 11:38
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And it was fascinating to me how many times people would say could I have a copy of that?
• 11:45
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Instead of what, instead of that prayer?
• 11:49
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And I was like that was I mean, no, there isn't a copy, I just was praying from my heart and that idea just blew people away.
• 11:58
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And so, having that opportunity to understand and I don't mean it casually, but of course we know the power of prayer, but physically even the effect that that can have on people, so many people and, ellen, you and I take it for granted perhaps, but so many people navigate life without ever hearing their name and God's mentioned in the same sentence.
• 12:22
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Navigate life without ever hearing their name and God's mentioned in the same sentence.
• 12:24
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But you can send out a text message to all of your subscribers and all your friends.
• 12:27
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You can have thousands of people praying for you within moments, and so it's something I've tried to never take for granted.
• 12:33
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It's just the power of offering a prayer to someone.
• 12:36
  Ellen Krause: Yes, and it's always so incredible to see the looks on people's faces who have never experienced that they're just so truly and deeply touched, and that's God at work for sure.
• 12:48
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Amen Amen.
• 12:50
  Ellen Krause: Well, let's shift gears a little bit into this technology and AI.
• 12:54
  Ellen Krause: How did you come to view technology as an important aspect of the Christian walk?
• 13:04
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So let's move from prayer to robots killing us all.
• 13:07
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Right, you know what?
• 13:13
  Dr. Drew Dickens: When I was in seminary, I've always had this fascination.
• 13:16
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I've always been an early adopter when it comes to technology, first with the iPhone.
• 13:20
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I mean just, you know, if it comes out, I'm just I'm standing in line.
• 13:23
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And so I've always been fascinated specifically with the history that we have as people of faith and technology.
• 13:29
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So I've always loved exploring that.
• 13:32
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So when I started working my doctorate, I wanted to kind of narrow that down from just technology in general and this was six years ago, which sounds which is an eternity in this field, but I was really doing a lot of research in the early days.
• 13:46
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Really, you can trace AI back to basically World War II, but I started exploring some of the more recent works in that field.
• 13:54
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Gpt hadn't even come out yet, so everybody kind of thought I was crazy.
• 13:58
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But I tell you it has been a roller coaster ride because you can't lay back man, it changes every day.
• 14:10
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And writing my dissertation was horrible because it was written in pencil, because every chapter I'd write, I'd go okay.
• 14:13
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Well, that's not true anymore.
• 14:14
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I'm citing.
• 14:16
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I can't cite books, because books have been written on it.
• 14:19
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It's just moving that fast.
• 14:21
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So it was kind of a narrowing of my fascination with technology and how we use that to engage with God.
• 14:28
  Ellen Krause: You know, what's fascinating about that is that there's kind of this dichotomy between how we want to use technology but at the same time, we're living in a culture that's constantly buzzing with notifications and distractions and so much information.
• 14:47
  Ellen Krause: In your view, how does our digital environment affect our ability to be fully present in prayer when we have so much, but yet we really want to feel the presence of God in prayer?
• 15:01
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Oh my gosh, ellen, when I come out with the updated version of the book, I'm going to have you write one of the testimonies for it, because that is really the word, it's presence, and there's so many things.
• 15:10
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I was reading a fascinating book on the effects of the telephone and it talked about there was a lot of pushback on the telephone.
• 15:19
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Should we allow it in our homes?
• 15:21
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I mean just in general, and so we've always had this tension between these devices that are able to bring us into closer communion with each other and with the Lord, but they are fraught with distractions away from those very things, and I think we live in a world that is just fraught with loneliness.
• 15:43
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It's an epidemic and it's driven by so much of what we've been talking about social media and mobile devices and there are elements of that that are very much at play here with AI.
• 15:55
  Dr. Drew Dickens: One of the things that concerns me is the effects on our relationships.
• 15:59
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I think we need to be varied.
• 16:01
  Dr. Drew Dickens: To come back to your word, we need to be present.
• 16:03
  Dr. Drew Dickens: People always ask me what can we do?
• 16:05
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And I said this, ellen, what you and I are doing right now two humans, two broken, messy humans, struggling to find time to talk to each other, but making it happen.
• 16:17
  Dr. Drew Dickens: That's what we need to hold on to.
• 16:19
  Dr. Drew Dickens: That's part of what it means to be human, I think, to be in community with messy people.
• 16:27
  Ellen Krause: Yes, that's so powerful because I have really looked into that aspect of loneliness and it's just it's becoming such a tragedy amongst the youth right, like just not even knowing how to communicate anymore directly with one-on-one, just sort of even a fear of those types of interactions.
• 16:50
  Ellen Krause: But I love that.
• 16:51
  Ellen Krause: You know God gives us this AI technology because we can use it to even learn more about him, can use it to even learn more about him.
• 17:07
  Ellen Krause: So help us understand, from your perspective, how Christians should engage with AI, what are some of the great things that we can get from it?
• 17:13
  Ellen Krause: And then also, what cautions would you offer with that?
• 17:19
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Great questions, Thank you.
• 17:20
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I think it begins with not unlike what you were just mentioning about being present.
• 17:25
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I think it begins with being mindful and AI, I think, by nature, is built to help things become easier and that can become an idol.
• 17:37
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So I think we need to be mindful of our relationship with it, with its relationship and being careful with that pronoun there, its relationship with us, and to pause periodically and thank you again for letting me read out of whispers and pause periodically and walk in the grass.
• 17:57
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So be mindful of screen time, be mindful of how we're engaging with it.
• 18:03
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I had met a buddy for late afternoon coffee last week and he told me that he got into a long, multi-hour argument with AI about the topic and, more interested, about your draining.
• 18:16
  Dr. Drew Dickens: How did you feel after that conversation?
• 18:18
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Because anybody else, if it was he and I having that conversation at some point I would have said hey, pause, relax, man, Look at how this is affecting you.
• 18:36
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Ai won't stop you.
• 18:37
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It would have talked for another 10 hours.
• 18:39
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So again, just look at yourself as you're engaging with it and thinking how am I reacting emotionally in this situation?
• 18:48
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So be mindful of it.
• 18:50
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Some of the cautions I would have is.
• 18:53
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I just mentioned one of them is just not being mindful and allowing it to begin to affect you emotionally.
• 18:59
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You mentioned an epidemic of loneliness.
• 19:01
  Dr. Drew Dickens: We were talking about that just a moment ago and, specifically I know with a lot of your listeners and your subscribers, it's interesting how the demographics are falling into place around this topic.
• 19:14
  Dr. Drew Dickens: When it comes to AI, I think it has immense potential to address loneliness, but immense danger.
• 19:22
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So what I mean by that is imagine, if you will, someone that's elderly, in a nursing home, struggling perhaps even with mental illness or dementia, maybe not having any visitors, anybody to talk to.
• 19:31
  Dr. Drew Dickens: They now have an opportunity to engage with something, an entity that can be, have the presence anyway, of seeming to be empathetic, sympathetic, caring and loving forever.
• 19:46
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It won't have to go back home, it won't have to.
• 19:49
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Hey, I'm tired, I'm hungry or I disagree, and it's always there.
• 19:54
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Oh my gosh, what a beautiful tool that can be for someone in that situation.
• 19:58
  Dr. Drew Dickens: On the other hand and it affects us all, but I'm looking at both ends of the spectrum perhaps the young teenager, teenage girl who feels as though so often it breaks my heart, but so often I've been in situations where I've been able to counsel with someone not a counselor, but talk to someone around the topic of cutting and self-harm.
• 20:16
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And so often I'll talk to someone and they say I thought I was the only one in the world and my heart just breaks.
• 20:22
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Often I'll talk to someone and they say I thought I was the only one in the world and my heart just breaks.
• 20:25
  Dr. Drew Dickens: No, no, no, you're not alone and I understand the pain, but there you have someone who is able to now engage, chat and text with something.
• 20:32
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I'm trying not to assign it anthropomorphic, human characteristics, but it will be easy for us to fall in that and develop some friendships with AI.
• 20:41
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I've had several episodes of my podcast where I'm actually talking live with an AI and developing a relationship and having a fascinating conversation, and I asked my listeners at some point, did you forget I was talking to an AI?
• 20:54
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And so many people emailed me back and said totally forgot.
• 20:58
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And so again, you can see the advantages to that, but the disadvantages, Some of the exciting things, and sorry I'm going to.
• 21:06
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You asked a simple question, but it's a complex answer.
• 21:14
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I think the most fascinating aspects that have a benefit to us as believers, as people of faith, is for it to be used as a for the efficiencies of it for me to be able to have on my phone, on my device, on my computer, access to all human knowledge.
• 21:29
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Just kind of wrap your head around that phrase for a moment.
• 21:32
  Dr. Drew Dickens: That has read every commentary ever published by every Christian author, going back to ancient times.
• 21:42
  Dr. Drew Dickens: That has listened to every podcast.
• 21:43
  Dr. Drew Dickens: That's taken every college seminary course A phrase I coined years ago, but AI is incapable of not answering, so it won't say I don't know, I'll get back to you on that.
• 21:54
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It has within seconds an answer to every question.
• 21:58
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But, oh my gosh, how was is that?
• 22:00
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You know, my wife and I talked about, you know, going out of town for a long weekend and she's an avid reader and I just she always is involved in like two or three bible studies.
• 22:10
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I'm so amazed by her, but we were kind of joking.
• 22:13
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But I said, have you studied the book of jude?
• 22:15
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Nobody studies the book of jude.
• 22:17
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Okay, it takes five minutes to read and everybody kind of does.
• 22:20
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I said, you know, let's, let's have it.
• 22:22
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Come up with a four day reading plan and Bible study on the book of Jude, written as though you were Beth Moore kind of thing.
• 22:30
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Well, three seconds later, here's a you know four day reading plan with with questions and studies and, oh my gosh, just the.
• 22:39
  Dr. Drew Dickens: The ability for us, as believers, to use this tool to go deeper and to walk more closely with the Lord is immense and incredibly exciting, but we need to be careful on the way.
• 22:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Yes.
• 22:51
  Ellen Krause: You know one thing that just came to my mind, and you know there may be listeners that are even concerned with the accuracy of the information.
• 23:03
  Ellen Krause: And how do you decipher where even different, like religious denominations, christian denominations, answer questions differently?
• 23:14
  Ellen Krause: Are those usually spelled out when people go to search for that information?
• 23:20
  Ellen Krause: So I guess, discerning between you know what's truth and not truth and then just the varying ways of interpreting.
• 23:29
  Ellen Krause: Yeah, I was in John 20 this morning and I came across that passage.
• 23:35
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Was it Pilate asking that passage?
• 23:39
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Was Pilate asking I should have had this 18.
• 23:44
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Anyway, where Pilate asks Jesus, he said are you the Messiah, are you the King?
• 23:49
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And he said you speak truth.
• 23:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You say that I am.
• 23:52
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Then Pilate asked him what is truth?
• 24:00
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I can't think of a more pertinent question for all of us to be answering.
• 24:04
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Right now.
• 24:04
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I'm going to answer your questions backwards.
• 24:07
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So, truth we need to define what that is for us, and it's God, it's scripture.
• 24:10
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But as we're going to be pounded more and more with things that we see that aren't verifiable, I think we need to be careful of that and relying on podcasts like yours, where your listeners have a history, they know you, they know what you do, which now gets me again.
• 24:26
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I'm answering all your questions backwards.
• 24:28
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I'm going to get into now accuracy, which is where you started.
• 24:31
  Dr. Drew Dickens: That's a great question.
• 24:32
  Dr. Drew Dickens: The example I always give if I'm talking to a larger group, it's if I tell you I enjoy eating sandwiches, especially peanut butter and blank, you would say what?
• 24:41
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Jelly, jelly, and maybe 99% of the people would.
• 24:46
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Some poor soul is going to say peanut butter and bananas, or peanut butter and honey, or peanut butter and nothing.
• 24:51
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So it takes that information with all of its consumption of everything and it's going to say boy, you know what, 99% of the time the word jelly goes there.
• 25:03
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So really, ai at a basic level is a next word predictor.
• 25:08
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So it's learning how to talk.
• 25:09
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So, along the way, when it's consuming all this data, it's also picking up some sort of side interests.
• 25:17
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It's going huh, look, I've learned how to become a brain surgeon as I've learned how to talk, and I've learned how to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as I've learned how to talk.
• 25:25
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So now you're talking.
• 25:27
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Another level of training down one level when it's starting to maybe pick up some biases, especially when it starts talking to you in the beginning, because it doesn't know anything about you, it doesn't know your biases or your preferences.
• 25:40
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So it's going to start learning from you.
• 25:42
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It's going to start saying this and boy, you objected to that, and so I'm going to say it this way next time.
• 25:48
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So it's learning not only data that it's reading and consuming all over the world since before Sumerian writings to today, but now it's going to start learning you.
• 25:57
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So that's another level of training.
• 26:00
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So a third level which I think is dangerous is when you and I start fine-tuning it to our specific, aligned worldview.
• 26:13
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So in that case, I'm talking to AI, but I only want it to answer me back as if it's a evangelical born again Christian.
• 26:24
  Dr. Drew Dickens: That's great, but you could also fine tune one that's only respond back to me as an atheist or as a Buddhist or as a whatever, and not tell anyone.
• 26:38
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So now, all of a sudden, I'm engaging with an AI that's been fine-tuned a certain way and I don't know that.
• 26:43
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So you use the word discerning.
• 26:46
  Dr. Drew Dickens: That's important is I need to stop for a moment and go.
• 26:50
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Okay, who's been fine-tuning this?
• 26:52
  Dr. Drew Dickens: What language-based language model are they using?
• 26:56
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And that's a little harder to do, because now, all of a sudden, I just want to know how many quarts are in a gallon and I don't want to stop and figure out who fine tuned this language model.
• 27:05
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But it's going to be important to do for us to stop and go.
• 27:10
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Ok, who's behind this?
• 27:11
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I know your passion is about translations of the Bible and I love that you're going to ask me that question in a moment, because so many of us pick a Bible because of the size of the font you know, or how many flowers are on the cover or something, and we never really stop and go.
• 27:29
  Dr. Drew Dickens: You know who was on the translation committee of this thing and what philosophies did they have?
• 27:34
  Dr. Drew Dickens: We need to start asking those questions when it comes to AI, but it'll be easy for us not to to, because it's designed to give us quick and easy answers.
• 27:42
  Ellen Krause: That's so fascinating and it's like an onion with so many layers that you can keep.
• 27:49
  Ellen Krause: I mean, we could talk about this forever and I do.
• 27:52
  Ellen Krause: But I don't need to start to wrap things up here the single most vital thing that every Christian should understand before using AI in their spiritual or even their professional life.
• 28:08
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I think, kind of where we ended the last conversation is that it's not sentient, it's not human, it's not divine, it's not a created being, it's not sentient, it's not human, but I feel like we will begin to engage with it as though it is, and so that's what I would ask everybody to be mindful of.
• 28:28
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I've said it several times, in several different ways but pause, walk in the grass and engage with a real messy human, regardless of whether you're using this professionally or just for fun, or even in your spiritual walk.
• 28:41
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I would encourage everybody to not run from it, but walk towards it with eyes wide open.
• 28:47
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Right now.
• 28:47
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I would really encourage everybody to walk towards it, but with eyes wide open.
• 28:53
  Ellen Krause: Excellent, excellent advice.
• 28:55
  Ellen Krause: Well, Drew, where can our listeners keep up with you and just learn more about what you're doing and your prayer devotional?
• 29:05
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Well, you know what?
• 29:05
  Dr. Drew Dickens: The easy way is just Drew Dickens, my name, Drew, like a picture.
• 29:10
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Dickens, like Charles, drewdickenscom.
• 29:12
  Dr. Drew Dickens: And boy, everything except pictures of the grandkids.
• 29:16
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Everything's there about the Whispers of the Spirit, as well as the Encounter in Peace podcast and the AI and Spirituality podcast.
• 29:24
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So yeah, anything and everything drewdickenscom.
• 29:27
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Thank you.
• 29:29
  Ellen Krause: All right, well, we will make sure we include links to all of those in our show notes.
• 29:34
  Ellen Krause: Thank you, drew.
• 29:35
  Ellen Krause: Before I let you go, though, I have to ask you some of our favorite questions here that we ask our guests.
• 29:40
  Ellen Krause: So what Bible is your go-to Bible, and what translation is it?
• 29:46
  Dr. Drew Dickens: The ESV is my go-to and I had a pen in it and it broke and I messed up Genesis.
• 29:53
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So don't ask me to read from Genesis 35 to, but the ESV has been my go-to through seminary and I've actually had this rebound twice because with my notes and everything else and I'm sure all of us kind of feel the same way it is a what's called a not to nerd out a formal equivalence, more of a word for word translation.
• 30:16
  Dr. Drew Dickens: It depends upon why I'm reading.
• 30:19
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I will use the NASB, which is hard to read, but it's probably the closest word for word translation we have for both Greek and Hebrew.
• 30:27
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I also love using the Amplified just for fun, which is like reading the Bible as a thesaurus.
• 30:33
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But I just love the expansiveness of the Amplified If I'm reading just for the sheer joy of sitting in the grass, I just love the New Living.
• 30:45
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So again, I don't have just one, but probably the ESV, but then some others, depending upon why I'm in the Word.
• 30:51
  Ellen Krause: Awesome, okay, excellent, excellent translations.
• 30:54
  Ellen Krause: All right, do you have any favorite Bible journaling supplies that you like to use?
• 31:01
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Yes, and you might not have ever seen these before, but it's a paper journal and a pen.
• 31:07
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I don't know if you've seen those tools or not.
• 31:09
  Dr. Drew Dickens: If you don't know how to use them, you can look up on YouTube, I think.
• 31:13
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But I love to doodle and I love to hear Mr Digital AI guy.
• 31:17
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But I still go around with my computer satchel.
• 31:21
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I still have a legal pad and a pen in there all the time.
• 31:23
  Dr. Drew Dickens: There's my combination right there.
• 31:25
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Okay, last question here.
• 31:27
  Ellen Krause: What is your favorite app or website for Bible study tools?
• 31:33
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Well, that's not fair, because I've got an app.
• 31:34
  Dr. Drew Dickens: So one shameful plug for the Encountering Peace app, which, by the way, we're about to release version two, which I'm super excited about.
• 31:44
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I've had a really close partnership with YouVersion the YouVersion Bible app forever for 12, 15 years or so now, but I love the YouVersion Bible app and the Encounter Daily Meditation is based on their verse of the day.
• 32:01
  Dr. Drew Dickens: I just love that team.
• 32:02
  Dr. Drew Dickens: But so I would say the Eversion Bible We'll put links to both of those in our show notes.
• 32:09
  Ellen Krause: Well, dr Dickens, thank you so much just for being here, for sharing your insight and your heart, and certainly your experience.
• 32:19
  Dr. Drew Dickens: Again, as I said, I'm thrilled with what God's doing through you and your team and everybody there, and congratulations on all that and very honored for you to ask me to be a part of the episode today.
• 32:32
  Ellen Krause: Why thank you so much?
• 32:33
  Ellen Krause: And to our listeners if you were encouraged by this conversation and want more guided prayers, I would encourage you to check out Dr Drew's incredible devotional Whispers of the Spirit.
• 32:48
  Ellen Krause: Honestly, I cannot recommend it enough.
• 32:51
  Ellen Krause: It will be linked in our show notes and if this conversation has blessed you, please show your support by sharing it with a friend, leaving a comment and, of course, subscribing, so you'll never miss an episode.
• 33:05
  Ellen Krause: Thank you so much for being with us today and we'll see you next time on the Coffee and Bible Time.