Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Hardcore Cardinals Conversation

Transcript

Hardcore Cardinals Conversation · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
Victor Scott I think. Super exciting for the future.
0:03
Maybe the present? Maybe the present?
0:06
You know you brought up Whitey Herzog.
0:07
Think about a little Whitey ball type team.
0:10
Little Victor Scott. Little Mason win.
0:13
Everybody running around fast hitting, hitting balls in the
0:16
gap triples. Fun excitement.
0:18
Stolen bases. That's what I think of.
0:20
I think of defense. I think of a team that has one
0:23
center fielder likely to be healthy at the start of the
0:26
season, and they have. Siani was a good defensive
0:29
player, doesn't doesn't have much Major League experience.
0:32
So if you're going to pick between the two and young Victor
0:36
Scott has looked very good during the spring games, maybe
0:39
you go in that direction. We were debating this.
0:42
There's a good side to throwing a guy into the mix.
0:45
There's also the side of, well, if he's not going to play as
0:48
much or maybe he's a little overmatched in the beginning,
0:52
does that hurt his progress as a player to get to the major
0:56
leagues? So you look at, I don't know
0:57
what the answer is. I do know I like that kid and
1:02
he's going to be fun to watch whenever he comes up.
1:05
But I wonder, based on injuries, do you give him a look now?
1:10
Well, I would at least at the beginning of the season, and I
1:13
know some some folks have been discussing this.
1:15
I would say, look, I understand hindering somebody's
1:19
development, especially position players, if they're not playing
1:22
a lot. But if you have an injury and
1:25
Victor Scott starts the year and gets a couple weeks in the big
1:28
leagues, if he fails and he can't overcome that, then then
1:34
does a player have it in him to do it anyway?
1:36
You know what I'm saying? Like Mason Wynn has failed at
1:38
every level and he comes back like if you if you have a bad
1:42
two weeks in the big leagues and you can't overcome that.
1:46
And I'm not specifically talking about Victor Scott here.
1:48
I'm just saying I don't buy that particular argument that, oh, we
1:52
could, we could break him. Well, if you're able to be broke
1:56
for two bad weeks in the bigs and you can't overcome that,
1:59
does that player really have it in him to ever be a really good
2:02
baseball player? Good point.
2:04
I mean, that's kind of the Colby Rasmus discussion there.
2:07
There was some of that like you do have to be.
2:10
And Tony, Tony, really, he would say this.
2:14
Tony would challenge folks so much that he's like, if you
2:17
can't handle me in the regular season, how the hell are you
2:20
going to handle the World Series?
2:22
And I get that. So if a dude can't handle some
2:25
failure, baseball is a game of failure, man.
2:28
I mean, you're going to fail 75% of time.
2:30
You're going to lose at least 60 plus games per year.
2:33
If you can't mentally overcome failure, then you're not going
2:38
to be a good baseball player. So my question was if if it's
2:40
two weeks, I totally agree. If the injuries linger and goes
2:44
beyond that, maybe there's something to it.
2:46
Kobe was a different animal, and I like Colby Rasmus.
2:49
The alien artist. But when you have a guy that
2:53
veterans who everyone respects say, I tried to take this guy
2:57
under my wing and I've had it, and I know a couple of them that
3:03
said, I tried to work with this guy, give him guidance, He
3:07
wanted none of it and I'm done with it.
3:09
So. That's.
3:10
More than. That's more than the pressure
3:13
that Tony put it. This was a guy who refused to
3:16
March to the beat of someone else's drum.
3:18
Refused to. But he was also, and I love
3:20
Colby, but he was pretty soft mentally and he also had his dad
3:23
still in the mix. He did walk.
3:26
Away, he had an MLB tattoo. He did, and he made a lot of
3:30
money. He had a he had a MLB logo while
3:33
as a as a young player saying I just want to be part of the
3:37
team, it isn't about me. He had an MLB logo on his
3:40
shoulder and his license plate, said MLB Razz.
3:43
Really, as a young player who hadn't?
3:45
Made the Oh my God. But don't you think he was also
3:48
humble? I liked him, that's.
3:50
The thing like I didn't know him, if you if you told people
3:53
this dude has an MLB tattoo and he drives with the with the MLB,
3:57
whatever it is license plate, you would think he's a huge ego
4:00
guy and he wasn't. He used to come to the events,
4:02
He used to come to our events and hang out.
4:04
He was a great guy. He was really soft spoken.
4:07
Really. And respectful.
4:08
Really. Yes, Mr. Charlie.
4:09
Mr. Jim. Wearing his Mickey Mouse shirt.
4:12
He was a really nice kid, but all I know is that when people I
4:16
respect like Lance Berkman. I love him.
4:20
Said I I can't. I can't do it with this guy
4:24
anymore. I can't reach him.
4:26
There's there's more going on. And Lance Berkman is a coach now
4:29
in college at Dallas or Houston Baptist, Dallas Baptist, One of
4:32
the two. It's not rice.
4:35
Maybe it's rice. It's a it's a school.
4:37
In Texas did. He go to rice.
4:39
Possibly. How about this lineup?
4:41
Wombat throughout while Newt and Edmond are out center field.
4:45
Victor Scott, Brendan Donovan, Second base.
4:49
Nolan Arenado, Third base. Nolan Garman.
4:52
Nolan Garman batting 4th DH, Paul Goldschmidt batting 5th,
4:57
first base, Jordan Walker right field, Wilson Contreras, catcher
5:01
Alec Bros in left field and Mason win at Chartstop.
5:04
And who's your starting pitcher? Michael, Zach.
5:07
Thompson. Hide your horses.
5:09
Zach Thompson Whoa, Cole. Can we have Cole?
5:13
I would like to hear from Cole. Can we get your take on how
5:16
these pitchers will do your honest opinion?
5:18
I'm not trying to chirp. I would like.
5:20
If you had to throw. Money on it and you can just go
5:22
all 5. Just give me, give me how many
5:24
starts you think they'll make and just throw an ERA out there.
5:28
Oh man. Just simple.
5:29
Simple. Keep it simple.
5:30
I'm genuinely curious. Sunny Grey is the one you're
5:32
thinking. Sunny Grey I actually really
5:34
like. And how many starts?
5:39
I I I would hope 30 for all of these guys, but probably not.
5:43
I mean just injuries are going to happen, so I don't know who
5:45
it's going to happen to. Well, clearly it's already
5:47
happened to Sunny Grey, but injuries are going to come and
5:50
go. So just like high, I would say
5:52
high 20s for all of them. Just if not, if a couple of them
5:56
might get into the 30s, a couple might stay healthy, a few might
5:58
get injured, whatever, they'll do some rotations.
6:02
I think Sonny Gray is, I think he's really good.
6:06
So I would say for him somewhere in the neighborhood of like 3-3,
6:13
give or take. And then I think the other four
6:16
are going to be just slightly different variations of each
6:19
other, all kind of in the high fours, low fives neighborhood.
6:23
What about Michaelis? Michaelis can have the really
6:26
good year. He has.
6:27
He's done it before. And it's usually every other
6:30
year. And he did it recently.
6:31
But when you have a drop off like last year and the same
6:35
thing goes for Lance Lynn, I just think that as you get
6:39
older, maintaining that consistency as an athlete is
6:42
probably a lot harder. And so a drop off of that
6:46
significance. And it was like an entire what
6:50
was it like since May 3rd or since June 3rd of to the end of
6:54
the season? Miles Michaelis was like almost
6:56
the worst qualified pitcher in Major League Baseball.
7:00
So I don't have a whole lot of optimism for him.
7:03
It wouldn't be tremendously shocking if Miles Michaelis kind
7:07
of separates himself from the rest of the pack.
7:09
I think Gibson and Mass are for sure going to be some four or
7:13
five, but I I just. If he has a 4 ERA Gibson, I'll
7:19
take that as AW no. No, I mean fourth or fifth out
7:21
of the five starters. So I would say that I am the
7:26
most optimistic truthfully probably of Miles Michaelis just
7:30
because a a couple of years ago All Star pitcher, but if you had
7:34
to rank him by optimism, Michaelis, then Lynn and then
7:39
flip a coin for Matson Gibson. I sent you a present, by the
7:42
way, a text. Thank you.
7:44
And you could save that. And you can like when it's time
7:47
to lay your head down, you can get a big smile on your face.
7:50
Lance Lynn currently has an ERA of 18 training.
7:54
Thank you. He starts today.
7:56
People are chirping cold, Jack. Thompson, by the way, was really
7:59
good in his last start. Like, I like that guy.
8:02
Yeah, I think he's good rotation depth.
8:05
I just don't think they have enough of that.
8:07
I I would like to, I would like to be optimistic by the way
8:10
about Libretor. I just think that back-to-back
8:13
years of being optimistic about him and then him getting the
8:17
basically a full time reliever role.
8:19
Now I don't see the few unless unless he's an A rock star in
8:25
the bullpen this year and maybe they view him as a starting
8:28
option next year because both Gibson and Lynn are going to
8:33
have expiring contracts. There are going to be two open
8:36
spots maybe you take the money that you were going to spend.
8:41
I mean those are two different, those are $22 million right
8:44
there that's coming off the books.
8:46
You can maybe spend a decent amount of money for one pitcher
8:49
and then promote Librettor or something like that.
8:51
But that I I've basically been resigned to the fact that my
8:55
optimism in Librettor over the past couple of years is kind of
8:58
just not there anymore. He's a reliever.
9:00
I think a lot of people feel that way.
9:01
And so he's been stretched out as starter insurance, as death,
9:07
and he hasn't been good at spring.
9:08
And I'll be honest, I watch him out of the bullpen and he's
9:12
better as a reliever. I don't know.
9:15
First of all, he looks ticked off, which I like.
9:18
Secondly, he's got more Velo because he's not trying to pace
9:21
himself or try to get through four or five innings.
9:24
He's kind of letting it all hang out.
9:26
He was better as a reliever, and I would say that's the path.
9:29
But they don't have a lot of the young pitchers who they thought
9:33
would develop haven't. So their depth right now, as it
9:37
stands today, is Thompson, the libretor who's gotten beaten up
9:40
at spring. There's a lot of guys like that,
9:42
too. Look at Andrew Miller.
9:44
Look at Andrew Miller's numbers as a starter.
9:46
They were horrific. He was a huge pick.
9:48
He was like the 10th pick, whatever it was.
9:50
And as a starter, he was awful. And then he became, I mean,
9:54
hell, that World Series run by the Indians.
9:56
He was the freaking MVP of that team.
9:58
He was an amazing reliever. Look up, Look up his stats as a
10:03
starter. I bet you his career ERA as a
10:04
starter was something about 6. And he was a freaking lockdown.
10:09
Awesome reliever. Except for here.
10:13
Well, that was towards the end of his career.
10:15
He was also beat up a little bit.
10:17
Does that count as a cheap choker bargain bin?
10:20
Signing him and Cecil cause both of those guys.
10:23
Cecil, I remember. Cecil, just so you know at the
10:25
time was really good and no one. But.
10:29
The no. The the background.
10:31
I know it's easy, no. No, I'm serious at the.
10:33
Time. No, they overpaid, JAMA Zalak
10:36
said. Look, it was early.
10:37
We had money, we overpaid 'cause we needed that piece.
10:41
And he was good and he lost it all at once.
10:44
And they actually overpaid for him.
10:47
So cheap. Maybe choker, but they overpaid
10:51
for him. Well, here's what I would say.
10:52
Both of those guys, Miller and Cecil, had the same profile.
10:55
They were really, really, really good, except for the year that
10:59
they were heading into free agency.
11:01
So hold on, though. Andrew Miller as a reliever, was
11:05
freaking good for a long time. His ERA the year prior to
11:11
hitting free agency in Cleveland was 4.24.
11:14
The year before that was 1.44. OK.
11:17
They also ran him out there for multiple innings for the entire
11:21
October of that World Series run.
11:23
But that was the year after. So, but look what What is his
11:27
career ERA as a starter versus a reliever?
11:30
That that's what I'm saying. That is what I am figuring out
11:33
right now. So as a starter his ERA, you
11:36
were basically hit it on the head 5.7.
11:39
As a starter, and let me guess so it's probably like in the
11:43
threes as a reliever twos. Not even 295. 295 and and.
11:49
The the WIP difference is also 600 some odd points.
11:52
Yeah, and the years he was, he was good.
11:55
I mean there was a five year stretch where he was
11:57
unbelievable. Yes, just All Star unbelievable
12:01
that that World Series run Tito Francona.
12:04
The usage of Andrew Miller is how they got to the World
12:07
Series. Right.
12:08
And then the year after that, he was still really good.
12:12
So he went, he went 14. How about this man?
12:14
So he's what you're saying That's the age of 33 also?
12:18
This stretch in New York with the Yankees, this is this is
12:20
when he first hit free agency. The Yankees picked him up and it
12:24
was a four year contract and obviously he got traded to
12:26
Cleveland in between. But his four year contract, once
12:28
he hit free agency the first time at 29 years old was two O
12:32
220-414-5144. And then I guess there was an
12:37
option for the 5th year whatever and then that fifth year after
12:42
all those low twos, middle middle of the road ones.
12:46
His final year in Cleveland was 424.
12:48
That was two years removed from the World Series year.
12:52
With a 3.51 FIP correct, there's a lot of volatility for
12:57
relievers. I and I agree with that 100%.
12:59
I'm just saying for him, the first five years or so, he was a
13:03
failed starter. Then for five years or so, he's
13:06
one of the best relievers in all of baseball.
13:08
And then, as he age, she just became a reliever.
13:11
Which is kind of why I would be OK if the Pirates traded David
13:14
Bednar, because he's got I I think that relievers are not
13:18
built to last. I mean, not everybody's a Rhoda
13:21
Chapman man, by the way. I I shouldn't have even brought
13:25
that name. I see.
13:27
That I did see that I already talked about that.
13:30
How hell? Yeah, brought that.
13:31
You think I missed that? What was I?
13:33
Think I missed that. Charlie, I was like, what is
13:35
'cause I'm like, is that his dad?
13:37
At first 'cause you know, obviously.
13:39
One of my friends thought it was a guy too.
13:40
Yeah. It wasn't.
13:41
It was not. It was not.
13:43
Oh, what I was going to say was a couple things.
13:44
First of all, don't you think a big part of the cardinal
13:47
strategy with relievers now is a correction on what happened with
13:52
Brett Cecil. They realized relievers are
13:54
super volatile the way and and again this is the heim bloom
13:59
philosophy is to have 10 relievers cheap and throw them
14:03
all out there. Rule 5.
14:05
Cheap guy coming off an injury. Throw 1010 bodies and four or
14:10
five of them are gonna stick. The other thing is, and then you
14:13
don't have to pay a dude 30 million for four years.
14:15
The other thing that's. What to say the cheap four
14:18
years, $30 million? How could you stick that in the
14:22
cheap bin? They overpaid.
14:24
Well, I would have to see what other options there were at the
14:28
time, but. Four years, $30 million for a.
14:31
34 year old. OK, but.
14:32
Also second free agency. So Andrew Miller, they also
14:35
learned from that. What did he get, 25,000,000 for
14:37
three. Whatever it was, they probably
14:39
learned from 8. Probably doesn't make sense to
14:41
give 20, five $30 million multi year deals to relievers.
14:45
So maybe they've overcorrected too much and they've depended
14:49
too much on on young guys, but also they're learning from these
14:52
mistakes that we're bringing up. I would view Josh Hader a little
14:56
bit differently just because of the age.
14:59
Now Brett, that may have been Brett Cecil's first free agency,
15:02
but you you were investing, you were going, you were dipping
15:06
back into the well for a second round of big money free agency
15:09
for Andrew Miller. I think that was the risk.
15:11
And my again, my point Brett Cecil, he was really good up
15:15
until his contract. The year before he had a ERA of
15:18
3/8, which doesn't signify running out of room in your
15:23
career. It doesn't signify running off
15:26
the tracks. It was like 388 up from 2
15:29
something. So they they looked at whatever
15:32
the numbers were, they saw what they liked and they overpaid and
15:35
it blew up in their face. But to say it was cheap or they
15:40
they they picked the guy who no one had interest in.
15:43
They overpaid so they could win the bidding war, quickly get it
15:46
over with, and it blew up in their face.
15:49
Another thing, you mentioned starting pitching.
15:51
I haven't looked immediately here, but I remember reading an
15:54
article about a month ago. So this this winter you had all
15:58
these big name starters. Next winter it's not the same.
16:01
And Zach Wheeler remember just gets locked up.
16:04
So the ability to add a big time starter and now you see Dylan
16:08
cease getting traded. I could also see the Padres
16:11
flipping him again right? Maybe next winter or at the
16:15
deadline if they're not good. But my point is, look, if the
16:19
Cardinals this winter, let's say they don't want to resign Lynn,
16:23
Kyle Gibson, whatever it is and you need a couple starters,
16:25
maybe you fill one internally. Where's that front end starter
16:29
now if you want to play the game of, hey, maybe we can try to get
16:31
a Logan Gilbert type guy again. But this was the year where
16:36
there's a lot of starters available still, by the way.
16:40
So they got to be at some type of discount, at least in terms
16:43
of years. At this point.
16:45
I I don't remember seeing the starting pitching market for
16:48
this upcoming winter being nearly as strong as this winter.
16:52
I'll look it up right now, but I remember Wheeler was going to be
16:55
coming up. He's obviously staying.
16:57
I agree. No, I agree with you.
16:58
There were a ton of names out there and like I said, I like
17:01
Sonny Gray. I know not everybody does.
17:03
I know Kevin Slade doesn't like Sonny Gray and says that he's
17:05
not a number. Yi mean, he was the he had the
17:07
number 2 ERA in the a American League last year.
17:10
I don't know if it's built to last because he's 34 years old
17:13
and I I still don't understand the contract, why they would
17:17
back load the contract at the current age that he's at that
17:19
that just didn't make sense to me.
17:21
But I still think that right here right now, he's a really
17:23
good pitcher. I just, I I don't know.
17:27
We'll see what where he's at 2-3 years from now.
17:29
If you're a team, why would you always defer?
17:31
Though it always makes sense for a team to defer, especially if
17:34
you didn't know. For ticket wise you had the TV
17:36
deal, there was uncertainty. If you're a team, it always
17:39
makes sense to defer money, but always.
17:42
To that degree, like he's going to be, he's making $10 million
17:45
this year and 35 in two years. Like he's going to eat up a lot
17:49
of whatever you're. Obviously there's no salary cap
17:51
in baseball, but every team has an ideal budget and if he's
17:55
making $35 million at age 36, a 36 year old pitcher is going to
18:00
be eating up that high of a percentage of your budget.
18:02
I think that's significant compared to $10 million when
18:05
he's, you know, a little bit younger now at 34.
18:09
I just think the Cardinals we're looking at this year, they're
18:11
coming off a bad season. They had uncertainty with TV,
18:15
which, by the way, is still there with what's going to
18:17
happen for the next couple years.
18:18
So if I'm them and Sonny Gray agrees to it, it makes perfect
18:22
sense to kick that ball. But I agree with you that they
18:25
probably will use that as an excuse two years from now when
18:29
they say, oh, we're at our payroll limit because Sonny Gray
18:33
is eating up a huge portion. So I agree with you on that.
18:36
Would you have? Been out on hater?
18:38
You know what his ERA in 22 was? Let.
18:40
Me guess it was like 6, wasn't it?
18:42
Five point he was with San Diego.
18:44
It was like 7. Milwaukee was like 4 something
18:48
and Milwaukee saw something. And remember when he was traded,
18:52
he was immediately terrible. His ERA was 5 and you you looked
18:56
at Brett Cecil who had ERA of 3.8.
18:58
What was it last year with hater?
19:00
Good. One point something, but I'm
19:02
saying after 22, yeah, he was great again because he's a great
19:05
pitcher, but he had a bad 22 for whatever reason.
19:08
I don't remember. If there was injury you would
19:10
have been out because he was done.
19:12
Well, it's a little bit different with hater because we
19:14
were questioning whether or not you had a closer period on this
19:17
team. So I think that.
19:18
No, no. I'm asking about performance.
19:19
If a guy has a bad year, you're out because he's done.
19:24
That kind of was your point. Brett Cecil's ERA ballooned from
19:28
2/9 to 3/8. There's no way anyone wants him.
19:31
That's why the Cardinals got him.
19:34
That's kind of your argument. You could also make the case
19:36
that it never makes sense for a closer like even Edwin Diaz.
19:39
I know that was totally flukish and he's celebrating in the
19:42
World Baseball Classic, but with the volatility of relievers and
19:46
the fact that you have to pay them when they're about 30,
19:49
like, name me $100 million Reliever that it was a good
19:52
contract. I could be wrong.
19:54
I'm sure Rolas Chapman got up $75 million deal he's fondling.
20:00
I look. Forward to the year 2030, when
20:03
Dylan Cease is finally old enough for the Cardinals to
20:05
acquire. Was that calories, you said?
20:07
Well, no. See, he regurgitated a Twitter
20:09
joke that he put on Twitter yesterday.
20:11
Kyle, get some new material. Kyle texted that in.
20:14
Well, I saw him post that on. I did.
20:16
I did too. I wanted to make sure that
20:17
nobody was stealing his joke. Plenty of baseball writers are
20:20
picking this crap Cardinals team to finish third or fourth in
20:23
this absolute shite division. Now, Charlie, who's the last
20:26
legit pitcher drafted and developed Waka?
20:30
By the. Cardinals, Cardinals.
20:32
That really went through and so drafted and developed.
20:37
That's what I'm reading. Draft and developed so Waka was
20:40
13. Did they draft Lynn?
20:42
Carlos had a couple of good years.
20:44
A couple good years. Carlos Martinez he just.
20:46
Went to Western Illinois well. Crazy.
20:47
He did stay out of there. Lance Lynn.
20:51
Lance Lynn was pretty Dang good for the Cardinals.
20:53
That's a while back I. Don't care if you draft him
20:55
because if you if you trade for him when he's a minor league
20:58
prospect and then bring him in, that's, I still think that
21:00
counts as developing. I agree.
21:03
OK, like, like Wayno, you didn't draft him, but I'm sure that
21:06
everybody here would claim him as their own.
21:08
You should you should count Wayno as developing.
21:10
Yeah, he was drafted or excuse me, he was traded in.
21:12
What a ball. Yeah, and then JD Drew had the
21:15
best year of his life in Atlanta.
21:16
But it was only one year. OK, so they're not cheap,
21:19
they're just morons. Another win for the Simp wombat.
21:23
OK, but whoever said baseball writers picking them third?
21:26
And I don't know if you guys talked about Devin Williams,
21:28
That's terrible. Saint Louis area kid.
21:30
Three months. So.
21:32
I mean, do you really think the Brewers, you think the Brewers
21:35
are going to be competitive? No, I think they're going to be,
21:37
I mean. Devin Williams is a freaking
21:39
stud. There you go about the
21:41
volatility of relievers and and folks always thought his arm
21:44
wasn't going to hold up because of the the action and his change
21:47
up and this was what, a stress fracture in his back.
21:50
I don't know. I saw was three months.
21:51
But either way, he's amazing. He's not going to be there for
21:54
three months. I don't see the Brewers being in
21:57
it for the long haul. Even if they're competitive, the
22:00
Brewers usually do the arbitrage thing and try to, you know,
22:02
stay, stay decent all the time. The Cardinals, in my opinion,
22:07
should be at least second place just based on the effort to
22:11
compete, which I'm not even giving that much credit.
22:14
But the rest of the division, I mean the NL Central, they just
22:18
take it. Somebody take it Every year.
22:21
Somebody just takes. Even the even the Cubs, OK, you
22:24
get Bellinger. The Cubs are now this team that
22:27
they spend very intelligently. You're like you're Chicago.
22:32
You could be, you don't. Have enough pitching.
22:34
I know, I'm saying like you could be Dodgers.
22:36
Ask Not exactly the Dodgers. But you are not a small market.
22:39
You're you're in the Central with a bunch of small markets,
22:42
with a bunch of Pittsburgh's, Milwaukee, Saint Louis.
22:44
You are a freaking big dog market.
22:45
And I. Don't get and the Central didn't
22:48
used to be where it was a bunch of also rants.
22:51
It wasn't that long ago that the Central was a dogfight every
22:55
year. Katie Wu just reported Edmond
22:58
will be shut down from hitting activities for one week minimum.
23:01
Progress looking worse. Sauce monkey.
23:03
Yeah, I like I said, I wouldn't count on on Tommy, I wouldn't
23:08
count on Newt. And I'd be very, very careful
23:11
with Sonny Gray because you need that guy because he's your best
23:15
starting pitcher. That's why I don't care if you
23:19
don't want to start the clock on a Victor Scott.
23:21
But if you're short handed, whatever you have to do to
23:26
patchwork this thing, do it. Do it now.
23:29
Cam Mason when is batting .2 Hundo.
23:32
He cannot hit North County three.
23:34
We'll see. Because it's his job.
23:36
We'll see. The fact that you all struggle
23:40
to come up with one pitcher they drafted and developed in the
23:42
past ten years, that's the issue.
23:44
I have a problem. We agree.
23:46
I No one, no one, no one disputed.
23:48
That truth be told, I don't know what was going on with the Saint
23:50
Louis Cardinals in that three-year stretch where they
23:52
missed the playoffs. I can't.
23:53
I I don't know who was here and who wasn't here.
23:56
You know, the truth is a lot of these guys that we've heard
23:58
about for a couple years. It was like a Jerko era.
24:00
Haven't, haven't been, haven't developed the way everyone
24:04
thought they would. No question, Cole.
24:06
Yo, stop budding in your little comments.
24:09
Add nothing to the conversation 636.
24:12
That I disagree with. I do too.
24:14
You made. This Why does Cole keep trying
24:16
to butt in? Cole shut the hell up and let
24:18
the adults talk. Ellisville Angry Dragon.
24:21
What was that from? The Angry Dragon.
24:23
Just it is not my biggest fan. When did you Were you trying to
24:26
trying to chime in and be funny or something?
24:28
I don't remember. He's fine, I'm sure.
24:29
He's fine. What's on?
24:31
The baseball. Can I correct myself?
24:32
No. Now there's a million dudes with
24:34
options, but for next year it is a little better than I said.
24:40
Now I think Shane Beavers on the wrong side of it.
24:43
I wouldn't pay big money for him.
24:45
But you do have Corbin, Burns, Max Freed.
24:48
Those are two pretty big names. Walker Bueller's always hurt.
24:52
You have a bunch of option guys like Garrett Cole, Justin
24:55
Verlander. So there's a couple names if
24:57
you're the Cardinals, Corbin, Burns, Max Freed.
25:00
Those are certainly front end guys that you could potentially
25:03
get next winter. A lot of a lot of options and a
25:07
lot of older dudes like this is, this is.
25:09
So Cardinals, let's be real. This would be the time where you
25:12
finally get Max Scherzer, right? It does feel Cardinals asked to
25:16
get him when he's 41 or whatever the age is.
25:19
Or or Verlander. Now you'd have to still pay.
25:22
Like who? Would you rather have?
25:24
Verlander. Well, Verlander's much better at
25:25
this point, I mean, in terms of staying on the field and
25:28
whatnot. I mean, they're both on the edge
25:30
of retiring. Yeah, they're, they're both.
25:32
Way up there. And those guys have options, by
25:34
the way. Or Verlander does.
25:36
Grew up with Devin Williams. I'm happy he's succeeding in the
25:38
MLB, but that dude was such a cuck growing up.
25:42
Hated playing on his team because he would bitch and cry
25:44
whenever things didn't go his way.
25:46
Really. Well.
25:47
OK. Interesting.
25:48
I'm sure things went his way a lot.
25:50
Seth on out with him back in the day.
25:52
Oh, is that? The kid he's talking about or he
25:55
He stole cigars from his mom and dad when they weren't home and
25:57
he's still worried about it. By the way, Charlie, I'll say
26:01
this to you, 'cause it'll get cold, angry, but I really wanted
26:04
them to get Waka 'cause, you know, he's my buddy and
26:08
everything. I would have liked him better
26:09
than Lynn because although. Instead of Gibson, you you got
26:15
two innings guys. I would have they to me.
26:18
We've talked about this. We agree it's redundant.
26:22
They're two of the same inning eater type.
26:24
Instead of Gibson, who I like, seems like a nice guy, let's see
26:27
what he has. I would have gotten Waka, who
26:30
doesn't guarantee you 180 innings.
26:32
He's going to give you 130 really good innings and he's
26:35
done that for a couple years in a row.
26:38
What? Do you think, Charlie?
26:40
I I like that on paper. Listen, I'm not saying it's
26:43
going to work. I'm not saying this strategy is
26:45
going to work for the Cardinals and I've said 5,000,000 times,
26:48
so I'm not going to argue with myself.
26:49
I said the Cardinals needed to get 2 pitchers better than Miles
26:53
Michaelis. They didn't achieve that.
26:55
So I think it's going to be hard to be really good and to
26:58
actually make a run with this starting staff.
27:01
That said, I understand why they think that innings big picture,
27:06
solves a lot of their problems, not just with the rotation but
27:09
also the bullpen and, and it's early, this could be a really,
27:13
really good bullpen, not just because of the arms, but like
27:17
Lance Lynn is a guy. If he's Lance Lynn, you should
27:20
let him go 6 innings and allow four runs every once in a while
27:24
and keep him in there. I think they will.
27:26
And then maybe your bullpen gives up one run over the last
27:30
three and you can win a Game 65. As opposed to, I mean, one of
27:34
the reasons the Cardinals sucked last year was look at early on
27:37
and we all know Wayne. It was really bad.
27:39
They're pulling dudes in the third.
27:41
I mean, 2, 2/3, three and a third.
27:43
Your bullpen all of a sudden is being asked to get a million
27:46
outs. And then and then your bullpen
27:48
usage the next day. That guy can't pitch.
27:50
That guy can't pitch. Everybody's fried.
27:51
All of a sudden down the road, everybody's everybody's tired.
27:54
They destroyed it. The starting rotation destroyed
27:57
the bullpen early on. You know who has not looked
27:59
good? Who's a guy that I thought would
28:01
be in spring training? I don't know.
28:03
But Jojo's been beaten. But they got some other pieces.
28:07
Guys. I mean, some of the new guys
28:09
they brought in have looked really good.
28:10
They have pieces in the bullpen. That's not my concern.
28:14
The concern is do they have enough starting pitching?
28:19
I think they're going to hit, too.
28:20
Call me crazy on that front. I think they're going to hit.
28:23
Randy Flores has been drafting for eight years.
28:26
Flores gets a lot of back slaps for building the fifth worst
28:30
team and the potential of Walker win and hence potential.
28:34
The Cards were fifth worst team last year.
28:37
Hey, we got a. 5th Worst in Baseball, you.
28:39
Got a high draft pick? I think it's fair to say that.
28:42
And look, they went with some high end position players and
28:44
they've hit on some Gorman, Walker and all that.
28:46
That 2020 COVID draft could be an amazing draft with Walker
28:51
with win. Well that was what Burleson that
28:54
was 10. Kent as well, correct.
28:55
I think so. OK.
28:56
But the Cardinals made their money when they were great on
29:00
drafting and developing pitching.
29:03
They had bullpen guys. They had starters all those
29:07
years. Lynn.
29:08
Waka, Seagrist. I mean, who else?
29:12
Carlos Martinez. Shelby Miller.
29:15
There were a lot of guys, and that was coming.
29:18
Trevor Rosenthal. I mean, you're getting guys in
29:20
the ninth round that are amazing pitchers.
29:23
So they're they're not that anymore, unfortunately.
29:25
Yeah, now they draft. When they draft a pitcher, it's
29:27
a guy who everyone thinks highly of and it it's taken them a
29:30
while and they have been great. They haven't been the guys ready
29:33
to replace other guys in the rotation.
29:36
So you have Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson.
29:38
I'm tired. I'm tired of all these guys
29:41
hating on my guy. Cole, that guy does a solid job
29:44
and wears a lot of hot hats around here.
29:46
Cole, your haters need to go back to watching SpongeBob.
29:50
That's Bill, I agree with. That did I text that in under an
29:53
alias. Name Bill and Jeffco.
29:54
That's Bill man. He's been around for a long.
29:55
Time. Thank you, Bill I.
29:56
Totally agree, except with a lot of hats.
29:58
That's true, wearing one hat. Like he.
30:01
I wear no hats. Like the trivia hat he don't
30:04
wear anymore, he don't make the questions up.
30:07
Producer. He hands out a sheet in the
30:10
morning when he gets here. At 3A producer.
30:12
Audio Uploader. Yeah.
30:13
Where is that sheet? Funk did.
30:16
We not get a sheet today. Not, not today.
30:17
No. Bet you.
30:19
Where's my sheet I? Take that hat on, I.
30:21
I I did make an announcement when I walked in.
30:23
I said just bet US today. We had the guy.
30:26
On So I I functioned the sheet. I I've got Randy on hold right
30:29
now. Put him through.
30:31
Let's see. Randy, what up?
30:32
Did you hold all the way through, Randall?
30:36
Nope, he's gone. I swear I just heard.
30:37
No, he's gone. I swear I heard him.
30:39
I am excited about going down to Billy's right there, right next
30:44
to Billy's on Broadway for the home opener.
30:47
Oh yeah, that would be. A Dang good time.
30:49
We're going to have a party down there.
30:51
We're going to have a Dang good show.
30:52
Jimmy's going to be in there for an hour and he's got work to do.
30:55
Well, let's have a good time and it's going to be a long day.
30:58
A fun day. Not long, Fun Time flies when
31:02
you're having fun. Pace yourself a little bit.
31:04
It's all good. We nap somewhere.
31:05
We just go to one of the hotels, nap in the thinking about that.
31:09
You know what? You know what in.
31:10
The foyer, the bridge. Friend of the show.
31:12
I'll mention it to him. You can nap in Moe's office.
31:16
Yeah, all. Right, yes, I'll say MO can, can
31:18
we crash here a little bit? And he'll say absolutely.
31:21
That'd be fun. Back in the day, I knew a bunch
31:22
of people with that point .4 hundo.
31:24
We could have gone up there and napped, but what about, I don't
31:27
know him anymore? What about the guy that always
31:29
used to call on the other show forgot his name already?
31:31
We talked about him construction.
31:32
Guy Oh yeah, Steve Souder. No.
31:35
Oh yeah, he isn't. Biff.
31:36
Biff. Biff oh Steve as well.
31:38
Steve's down there too, at Ballpark Village.
31:40
I know Steve. No, we know people live down
31:42
there. We'll go nap at their place.
31:44
We were talking about Biff because he, his Goldfinger would
31:46
fly guys. And I always thought it was
31:49
weird, like sometimes Doug would be on the flight and then he got
31:52
bumped one time because strict. Yeah, wanted to go on.
31:55
I was like I it's hard to. There's so many layers to that I
31:58
couldn't figure it out. Sometimes higher.
32:00
The mosaic as Bush stadium's poop collector.
32:02
Oh. Wow, say that poop collector.
32:05
All right, Cam is not napping in his office.
32:07
Charlie and Cole can. I did not say that.
32:10
I'll go to that millennial Millennium building that's
32:13
empty. Let's go down there.
32:14
Let's go check it out just for some.
32:16
Reason I. Saw somebody having a video and
32:17
went in there. Scary looking.
32:20
By the way, since we're talking about Cardinals related events,
32:22
I have RSVP D for the Cardinals radio lunch and I'm a media
32:25
member. Again, good for you.
32:27
Back-to-back months, you know. What?
32:29
Every year I RSVP D to that I never actually go.
32:32
They also give you tickets. Yeah, two tickets.
32:35
Yep. Two tickets.
32:38
Paradise. And there you me.
32:40
So nice. So.
32:42
They and they also do like AQ and A with MO I think.
32:45
So you you could be like in the. All right, I'll take some
32:49
questions from the assembled media.
32:50
Thank you guys for coming out. We'll start with Cole.
32:53
Why are you cheap chokers? It's blatant.
32:56
Brett Cecil. Yeah.
32:58
He was. He was built like a milk bag,
32:59
though he was. Really weird.
33:01
Did a lot of video games. That was the that's what really
33:05
ticked people off, including his team mates, that his ERA was 12
33:09
or something. It was almost 7.
33:11
And he would, And he would play video games.
33:13
Oh, really? So they took away the video
33:15
game. Like a child.
33:17
And there was the one spring I feel so bad because it was the
33:20
last year where they just invited him just because
33:23
contractually he was still on the team.
33:25
Like you knew he wasn't even going to pitch.
33:27
It was over. Remember, he lost all the weight
33:30
and he sits down with everybody at spring training.
33:34
And he had like, I think he had two tragedies happen in his
33:37
family in the last year or so. So he's already bad.
33:41
He is a nice guy. He sits down.
33:43
I don't even think he pitched that year, but he sat down and
33:45
did everybody's interview. And he's like, I can't remember,
33:48
'cause I have a terrible memory. But two bad things happen with
33:50
his family and you're just feeling bad for him.
33:54
No, we This was a yeah, Maryland.
33:57
This was a trivia. This was a Charlie Special.
33:59
He pulled it out of nowhere. He's he just feels like a East
34:03
Coast. Well, that was based on, that
34:05
was based on his dialect. He didn't.
34:08
I thought he wasn't a Southern guy.
34:10
So that middle, that middle, there's not really a dialect to
34:14
people who live in Maryland. He also showed up in the
34:17
clubhouse. Remember, they sent him away.
34:20
Like he went to Florida. And you know what?
34:23
I saw him on a flight and he was supposedly in Florida rehabbing
34:28
and he wasn't. He was going somewhere else.
34:31
He's like, yeah, I'm not going to Florida until like the 14th.
34:35
Everyone thought he was there working, nice guy.
34:37
And then here's the other thing, as bad as things got, if you
34:41
wanted to talk to him, he would talk to you.
34:43
He didn't hide. He didn't.
34:45
Even when his ERA was a million, he wouldn't hide.
34:48
He was a nice I like. That I like that.