Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 890: Mushroom Poisonings in California, Mule Deer in Alaska, and an Ex-NRA Chief in Trouble

Transcript

Ep. 890: Mushroom Poisonings in California, Mule Deer in Alaska, and an Ex-NRA Chief in Trouble · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the news show.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: This week, we've got the NRA in continued legal trouble.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: We've got does it really help to make fish drink pop?
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: What is beach access? And why do some wealthy folks
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: hate it so damn bad. Spencer reports on an outbreak
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: of mushroom poisonings and deaths in California and me Steve
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: is troubled by the word outbreak in that context, but
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: we will see. We've got Despite what you've read, there
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: is in fact no evidence of jaguar pups living right
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: now in Arizona. And it happened a hunter in Alaska
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: killed the first ever mule deer killed by a hunter
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: in Alaska.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Plus a whole lot more. But first, what is first? Oh?
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Walleyes?
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: Oh, we're going Walleyes.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know what else is first?
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: T RCP Hunt giveaway.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: This is something I've talked about all the time, I'm
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: gonna start talking about the interview show too. Right now,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: go to if you want to win the annual Turkey
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Hunt giveaway, go down to Uh, Phil, what camera is
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: it when I'm not talking to that thing?
• 1:19
  Speaker 6: Well, that's that's your camera always. I'll switch it to
• 1:22
  Speaker 6: Spencer and Randall if they're talking, I'll spit switch it
• 1:24
  Speaker 6: to Brody if he's talking. But that one is me,
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: that one is you. Okay, I got confused because of
• 1:28
  Speaker 6: that thing we got sitting there.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Sorry.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: If you want to win this year's Turkey Hunt Giveaway,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: where me and Janna's take you turkey hunting, we do
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: everything but wipe.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Your bottom like.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: We bring in a cook that cooks for you. We'll
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: help you get tie your boots. All your expenses are paid.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Jannis and I will cater to your every need and
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: desire when you win. And we have years worth of
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: winners to back us up on this. So you buy
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: raffle tickets. Go to TRCP dot org, go to the
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Turkey Hunt Giveaway or the Spring Fundraiser Summer fundraisers they
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: call it.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: If you go to the head undergiving, it's like the
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: first thing blow your cursor.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Buy your tickets. Okay, someone wins every year. If you win,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: you and a friend. You could take your husband, you
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: can take your wife, you can take your best friend.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Last year we had a couple of brother in law's, right,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: whoever you want to pick. We cover your airfare, We
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: cover your tag. We cover your food, we cover your lodging.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: You pay nothing.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: You leave your wallet at home.
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: Did they bring a gun?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: We have in the past brought a gun out. We've
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: in the past. We've had in the past where we
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: brought a gun. We had a guy bring basically a
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: coach gun. He had a ten gage, single shot sawed
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: off gun. He missed with it, and then we had
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: him switch.
• 2:51
  Speaker 5: Gun actional.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: I was cheering for that guy. Yeah, see anything like it,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: une like it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I thought that turkey was gonna be not ave anymore
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: after the shot, the conclussive boom, but the turkey is unfazed.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure what happened.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: I think you ought to bring some of the last
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: tss ammo in the world for that hunt.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: We'll supply your ammo. We'll supply your ammo.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: All you do is you and your friends show up,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: eat good food that you don't have to cook, eat
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: off dishes you don't have to clean, and have fun.
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: Who's doing the calling on these hunts?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: I hunt with one. We do a little deal. This
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: year we Drew Straws, so I had my guy, Yanni
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: had his guy. But we switch it up. But my
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: guy got his turkey in ten minutes.
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: And Yannie's guy got his turkey that afternoon. Our guys
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: this year got their birds first. We had two three nights,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: two days to hunt. But in the past, if we've
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: had a bad couple of days, we always we work
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: it out. So you're calling though, yeah, got it, Well,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Yannie's calling, I'm calling. And then if and then when
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: our guy got a bird, then we started hunting for
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: the chef. The intention was the chef would get his
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: bird and then I'd start hunting too.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: But it's it's busy, it's packed in.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: If you get your bird right away, there's still plenty
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: of hunting to be done because we're gonna switch to
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: me hunting. It's a great time. Go buy your raffle tickets.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: It goes to a good cause. All the money goes
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: to t RCP, like like we we take care of
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: the expenses. All the raffle money goes straight to TRCP,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: whose slogan is guaranteeing Americans quality places the hunting fish.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: Mm hmm.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: That's it for that.
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: Speaking of Teddy, I don't know the rest of that.
• 4:34
  Speaker 5: There's something with Teddy Roosevelt merchant here but I don't
• 4:36
  Speaker 5: know this talk about it.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, I'm sorry. Uh well, I was going to
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: talk about the roadless rule, which I don't know where
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: you are in the dock. Why did you say?
• 4:47
  Speaker 7: Say?
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: Oh, someone deleted it said TRCP Hunt Giveaways and Teddy Merch.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: He's going by memory. Yeah, if you're following the news.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Mike Lee is up to his old tricks. And he
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: introduced an amendment into the Wildfire Prevention Act of twenty
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: twenty five that would nullify the roadless Rule. And so
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: this and that dude loves him a road man. I mean,
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: it must be nice. He just loves the run. I
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: wish I had one thing in my life that I
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: was so single minded and passionate about as he has
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: what he has in doing bad things to public lands.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: What was the quote you heard from someone just recently.
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: It's not a resource if you can't research.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Or if you can't access it. Yeah. Yeah, So, in
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: any event, that got slipped into this bill as an amendment.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: And so the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee voted
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: eleven to nine to adopt the amendment and advance it.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: So it's now going to go to the Senate for
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: a full vote. So get out there, make your voice heard.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Let your senators know that you oppose the nullification of
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: the roadless rule. You can take action at I haven't
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: checked this, but I assume almost all major conservation groups
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: hook and bullet groups have action alerts on their websites
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: b H A, TRCP. Let your lawmakers know how you
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: feel about it, one way or the other. I'm not
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: going to tell you how to weigh in, but old
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Mike Lee just constant, constantly turning to turn back the tide.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: So that's good.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Walley spear in Michigan. This is a news This is
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: actually a Newsy item. Four years ago, Michigan opened up
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: its first spearfishing season for what had traditionally been regarded
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: as game fish. So you've always been able to spearfish
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: for non game fish rough fish. I don't use the
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: word trash fish, but people like that word, which included
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: some non native things like Eurasian carp asiatic cart and
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: some game thing and some native things like native sucker
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: speces both in all that, but a few years ago,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Michigan opened up a initially provisional spearfishing season for three
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: coveted game fish. Coveted game fish being Walleye Lake trout
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Northern Pike, not salmon for some reason, but Walleye Lake
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Trout Northern Pike. And they opened it up where they
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: took basically the Michigan shoreline of southern Lake Michigan and
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: the northern shoreline the northern shoreline of Michigan's stretch of
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Lake Huron and did these test seasons and Angler's spearfishermen
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: could get a free stamp with their fishing license, and
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: they had to do monthly reporting to report on their activities.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: What they found over that time, to sum it up,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: and I talked about it before, what they found over
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: that time is the harvest is negligible, and effort instead
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: of going up as the new opportunity came in, effort
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: went down. So people were thinking they wanted to go
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: and then and then we're finding that they weren't going.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: They were giving out about four thousand They were giving
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: out about four thousand spearfish stamps. Of those, a few
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: hundred people went once. Of those, I think one hundred
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: and eighteen people like got a fish, okay, and.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: Just but despite all that, there was a big pushback
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: from some hooking line.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I know, Yeah, I don't know that you there was pushback.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know that it would be big pushback, and
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: there's some continued pushback. Yeah, there was some pushback. For
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: context though, So Saganawba. Here's my Michigan map. Okay, I
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: was brought up right here, this is Saganawbe right for context.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Last year Roden reel anglers.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Caught five hundred thousand walleye out of Saginawba in the
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: entire state, in all open waters for spearfishing, so not
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Saginaw Bay, but of all waters open to spearfishing. Last year,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: spearfishermen killed four hundred and thirty.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Walleye, less than one percent, less than one percent.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: They killed zero point zero eight six percent of the walleye.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: But keep in mind it's apples and oranges. Five hundred
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: thousand got caught out of Saginaw Bay. Four hundred and
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: thirty got caught out of here and here. Okay, negligible harps. However,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: now there's this part. We went out to hit it.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I went, my buddy Greg fonz went who's been on
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: the show a bunch, and we were hosted by Jonathan Dirk,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: who was instrumental in establishing the spear fishing season, and
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: we set up a little contest where we fished against
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: a couple of Roden real anglers, Chester the Divestor and
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Seth and man did we just beat him real bad
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: every day? Beat him real bad.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: Came back to Montana with his tail touched.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: They were pouting from day one. Beat them bad.
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: Give me an example of the pouting.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: It's just like body lighting.
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: Say something to you.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Like trying out, like trying out a lot of ideas.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: You know, Well, first it was the first day it
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: was real, Sonny and calm to Sonny and Tony too calm.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Next day was cloudy, was overcast and windy.
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: To cloudy to windy.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: But then it was like whatever. Then it became this
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: big like local intel. You know, we had local intel.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: They didn't have local intel. They had an opportunity for it,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: but they didn't. They didn't want it. Then it became
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: just whatever.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: I want to know, Like what's a rough comparison to
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: doing the walleye thing compared to like whatever dive in
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: dive in a rig like as far.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: As well we dove wreck like saltwater fish?
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: That are they more?
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: Are they spookier? Are they more Chill'll.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Get into that. Yeah, that's a great question. First, I
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: want to touch on this so well. The first thing
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: we did is we went and drifted at a river mouth,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: not a river mouth. If you get down to the
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: bottom of Lake Huron. Uh So, like Lake Superior flows
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: into Lake here On through what's called the Saint Mary's River.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: It's like you almost think of like a narrow strait
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: right where the lake spills down some twenty feet well
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: at the bottom of Lake here On it flows down
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: into Lake Erie, and they call that overflow the Saint
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Clair River.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: So they drew the spearfishing line kind of at the
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: mouth at the head of the Saint Clair River, but
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the current is already picking up pretty good down there,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: and the whole damn lake next down and forms like
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: a like a big river and it flows out into Erie.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: So it's a river, but it's kind of like a
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: narrow spot in the lakes. There's a lighthouse that marks
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: the spearfishing border. Can't go past that lighthouse. But by
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: then there's a plenty of current. So we're doing drifts.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: We're dropping in and doing drifts, So you drop in,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: breathe up, dive down, twenty feet of water and just
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: ride the current. Big old sturgeon down there, but the
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: current's so strong you can't turn around. I blow past
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the sturgeon. I blow past the sturgeon, and I try
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: to go back up and check it out. You can't
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: get back right, I'm blowing back tackle the mount of tackle.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: I blew past.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: There's three bottom bouncers snag down a log, laying like.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: The bottom bouncers are laying together, touching like tackle like.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't believe down there. You could open a tackle
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: shop with the tackle on those trees and tires and
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: whatnot laying down there in the bottom. But as you're blowing,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: every time you dive down, you're just zipping down the bottom.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: And there's there's when I say this, don't think I'm
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: like saying throwing out a number. There are thousands of
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: white suckers spawning on gravel.
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: Did you shoot some of them?
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: No? No?
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Well yes, because I missed the walleye and hit a
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: sucker on accident. Yeah, I mean thousands of white suckers.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: With my hand, I'm showing you how that what they're doing.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: They're in the current. The ones you know as there
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: mil team.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: They're like.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: You come down through those schools the suckers, and the
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: walleye are laying in with the suckers. So it's just
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: you just got suckers parting like you're like Moses, and
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the suckers are the red sea dude. And in mixed
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: in with them are wally dogs. And we do a
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: bunch of drifts and gotta limit a walleye. But there's
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: rotten real dudes cleaning up two right, right, But there's
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: small walleyes.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: They're eaters.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Then, and that part of the lake it's like size
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: limited fourteen. I think it's a fourteen.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: Minimum something like that. Five a day.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: So we got three guys on guns. We're only fishing
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: two guys at a time because that's the tournament rule.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: So one guy's operating the boat, two guys are drifting
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: and we get our fish. Then we go out to
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: a wreck somewhere else and dive a wreck and those
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: in forty feet of water, and got three berbot off
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: that wreck.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: Hiding in the wreck.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: M The next day we start just go to a
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: whole different area to start hunting for walleye. And I
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: always think of like, you know, when you're fishing walleye
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: and someone gets one, you get real excited. You think
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: you're gonna get another one in this area. You would go,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: you would kick two hundred yards, say, and there'd be
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: oh walleye, I mean, ah walleye. Once you find him,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: it is not hard to get him.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: You.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: When you find him, you are gonna get a shot.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: He's not gonna spook.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: There's a ninety chance when you find him you will
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: get a very good shot at him.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: In that area where they bigger, even though there's.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: A nice walls. Then we're in a nice wills, but
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: few and far between. That's day two. We don't get
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: that many, but we get some good ones. A bunch
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: of small mouths which you can't shoot. But you go
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: along and they'd be like, oh walleye by itself, no
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: other walleye anywhere around, separated by what seems to be
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: hundreds of yards of.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: No walleye, Oh walleye. And you find.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Them, there's a there's a nine and ten chance you're
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: gonna get a shot. You might miss. There's a nine
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: and ten chance he's gonna not spook bad like they
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: are not suspecting that you're gonna shoot at him Day three,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: we're doing that and all of a sudden, we're just
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: into them, I mean lots of Biggins. Then the guy
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: we're with that was instrumental in bringing on this opportunity,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: he started to get uneasy.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Because he's like, man, this.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: Is when you're trying to make the argument of negligible take.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: And but it was the ones It's like, we had
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: it all. We had clarity. It's it's very cold water.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: We just had we had good water clarity, which never happened.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Just like everything came together perfectly. And man, did we
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: have a day that I will I will remember the
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: rest of my life.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: Did any party you feel bad about spearing those things?
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: No?
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: No, I'll remember that day for the rest of my life.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: It's just one of those days. One of those days.
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: I was texting with Max, who was there with you
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: guys on this shoot. And I don't know if it
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: was his joke or if it was a joke that
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: you guys were making to each other ten times a
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: day when you'd like punch each other in the shoulder.
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: But I had asked Max how the fishing was going.
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: He said they were biting really good on spring steel, horizontal,
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: very fast presentation. I thought that was fun. Kudos to
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: whoever came up with that. I enjoyed that bit you did.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: That was a good joke.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I was telling them to tell to text Seth because
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: they were struggling. I was saying, maybe tell them the
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: spring steel horizontal, very fast presentation seems to be.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: It seems to be working. I was amused.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable, just like one of those days of fishing, the
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: likes of which you probably never see again.
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: You're gonna do it again? I don't know.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Ye if I lived there, you won't be able to
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: keep me out of the water. But I live there,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to keep out of the water. A
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: downside I don't want to take too much time on this,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: but a downside too it would.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Be this, see I'm from there.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I guess if you're from there, you can hack on it.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: There is a monotony. There's a monotony to the environment
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: when it comes to being underwater in a fresh water environment,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: like in salt water, like a diving a reef or something.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: You're down there and you're just.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Like, oh my god, oh my god. If it's like whatever,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: you know, you're half scared shot. You're just like suckers. Yeah,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: you know, and you're seeing stuff.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: You gotta go look it up, you don't, you know
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: what you know what I mean, it's just a lot
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: going on. There's always a right, there's just a lot
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: going on. It's a very dynamic environment. It's dangerous more
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: us there's it's just a it's an enthralling dynamic environment.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Some of those areas in some of those areas in
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: the Great Lakes are not I mean, let's just be frank.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: There's some areas that are desert like. There's some areas
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: that are desert like out in the Great Lakes Proper
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and the Great Lakes Popper, like the stretch of Lake
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Michigan I grew up on. If you went out and
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: did big drifts out there, up and down the between
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: the sandbars, you could not go hundreds of yards about
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: seeing anything. You could go miles without encountering a fish.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: It's a very places are very sterile. So you're hunting
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: a very sterile environment, right, and that it's just it's
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: just a little bit different.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: Did you come across either of the other two legal
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: game fish species?
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Never let it?
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we went and dove one day for Lakers, and
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: and my what I gather is that they they're they're
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: not into the whole thing. Lakers do not want you
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: to shoot at them. So what these what these guys
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: are saying. And they've gotten a couple, they're saying, Lakers
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: are like, no, I'm out. So Jonathan saw a Laker
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: and all he saw of that Laker is that Laker
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: being like, I'm out. But walleye for whatever reason, in
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: a Walley's head, that's not what he's thinking. But a
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Laker is like, yeah, I don't know what that is,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: but I don't like it. And we didn't try for
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: northerns Yeah. Yeah, A weird thing with this whole deal.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: When it started, they were using flashers for lake trout
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: and it seemed like that was effect like very effective,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: and the state very quickly said no flashers, but you
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: can use a flasher rotten reel fishing.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: How would you use a flasher spearin?
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: You just like.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Suspend it vertically, So you tie a big string of
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: flashers or a flasher on a booie and you just
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: drift and work the flasher and then dive down to
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: the flasher and you're just bringing fish up checking the
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: flash rout. So at first you could do that and
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: they had some good luck, like you could like lakers
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: that come from long ways and they'd interact with the flasher.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Then you could dive down get the blaker. But then
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: right away they're like, oh, never mind, no flashers. But
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: they didn't do that for rodden reel guys. You could
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: run flashers all day long m hm, and then put
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: a hook behind them. And why because flashers weren't really
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: good and they lure lake trout. And then the lake
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: trout gets lured and he bites your hook and you
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: catch them and that's cool. But if you're spearfishing, uh uh,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: it's a weird, weird deal that you can flasher for
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: roden reel, but you cannot flasher for spearfishing. And you
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: know how, check this out. Guess how many of the
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: lakers the spearfishermen are killing annually. Take a guess a dozen? No, seven, No,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: they are killing they into The four year average is
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: that the spearfishermen are killing five lake trout a year.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: The spearfish are killing nineteen northerns a year on average.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: But you can't use a flasher.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: Does Michigan have a like is there?
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: It's insane?
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: Is there a fishing season? Both spiros and rod and
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: real guys have to like, is there a walleye season?
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: If it's open, it's open.
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: You guys have seasons there, It's not like, yeah season.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when we were there, Northeast weren't open. I'd go
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: with spidos spirro. You're a spiro. It's a spirow.
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: I picked that up along the way.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not one like it's a spiro. I'm sorry, it's
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: too late. It's like you can't like think of a
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: new word for like something that's yeah.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, it's too late. They already got a
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: name for it's computer spiro.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: That's my report. That's my report. I would like to
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: see them open up salmon. I would like to see
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: it that you could chum and I'd like to see
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: it that you could use flashers. And I think it's
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: insanity that you can use a flasher for rod and
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: reel fishing, but you can't use a flasher for spearfish.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: Fish to open for all of the three native game
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: fish species, but the non native salmon is not.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you open it for salmon, I
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: think you'll find that the spearfishing harvest is about a
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: salmon a year.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be about a salmony.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: Depends how close you can get to a river mouth
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: at certain times.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Of the year. It'd be great, man, Just like most
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: people aren't most people like I mean, let's be frank,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: most people do not have the dedication in physical fitness
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: required to free dive in fifty degree water.
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: Yep. It's just they just don't or interest.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: And you don't want amateurs trying that stuff.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: You can catch Walleye and I don't have a problem
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: with it. You can catch Walleye shit faced with the
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: TV on and you're not breaking a rule. No one
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: would be like, well, that's what's the challenge.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Now you're ship face ship face, but.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: A dude, it's a climb in fifty degree water and
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: dive down to the bottom and thirty feet of water
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: where the water is now thirty two degrees because of
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the thermal climb and beat himself up like that. It's like,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: knock yourself out, bro.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Well, if Seth had bested you in this feet, I
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: think we could have done a rematch where you're fishing.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: It shit faced watching TV wileye anglers, but well.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: That's what they do because they got forward facing sonar
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: to hear. They also brought up an ethics thing. They
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: wanted to introduce an ethics conversation. It's like, Plummett, aren't
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: you the guy with forward like aren't you the guy
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: live scoping walleyes?
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: Which is basically like looking at them, you know, the
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: same as you're doing them fishing.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: If you want to see a side profile what them
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: fishing looks like, here's what them fishing looks like. Can
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: you get me fill yep? This is what them fishing
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: looks like. Because they're watching, it's like you know what
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I'm saying.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're going like.
• 24:56
  Speaker 7: Oh oh oh, oh.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: There he is.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: That's that. That does seem harder to do a cross
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: that drunk. Anyhow, I'm done talking about that.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Did I include that we had a phenomenal time?
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: I gotta tell you the funniest part of it. I'll
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: cut some news. I'll cut one of my new stories
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: out to make more time for this. Here's the funniest part.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: There's a restaurant right where we're staying. They do that
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: deal where you can bring your fish and they cook it.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: So the night before they're.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Down and they brought their burbot down there and some
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: wally dogs down there, and they cook them all up. Well,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I get a big old so like a bourbon is
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: a true cod. Oh, while we were there, we made
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: a T shirt where it's already done. It's a Bourbot.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: It's a Bourbot and it says load of loada which
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: is Lenayan name in italics, and it says a ka
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: and it has all the bourbot's names. Oh good, it's
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: a fish of a thousand names.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: Like, we can't do that a lot. I'm explaining to
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: the boys, mose are already sold out.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I'm explaining to the boys how cod have huge livers
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: and the oil in that liver is like a buoyancy mechanism.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: So if you're if you're pregnant and you're eating cod
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: liver oil, so your baby's real smart. CODs have big
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: livers and a Berba is the only fresh water cod.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: So I pulled this big honk and liver out of
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: this thing, and I'm telling the boys, like, you can
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: actually eat this. It's not good, but it's interesting. So
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: it makes its way into the restaurant, and I'm thinking, well,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go in and I'm gonna slice it
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: as you do your real thin You slice the reliver
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: real thin, and you put it on a hot cast
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: iron skillet and fry the oil out of it, and
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: you basically make like a cod.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Crack I can see where this is going. You make
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: a cod liver crackling.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Well, the fellas go into the cook and they're like, oh,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: he he just wants you to fry this liver and
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: red in my hand.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: He batters it.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he batters the liver like just the liver, and
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: it's basically like your deep frying oil.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: It's like if you took oil, it could bread oil.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: And the like, if you could somehow like get oil
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: cold enough to be solid and then bred it and
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: deep fry it. That's basically what he makes. And the
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: lady comes out. She's like, I don't know what the
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: hell you're gonna do with that?
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: What did you do with that thing?
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: We tried to eat spoonfuls of it. Yet to eat
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: it a spoon It was repugnant. But I was telling her,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I'm like, listen, man, I mean, it's not your fault,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: but that's.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Not you know, yeah, I just you know, that's funny.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Then she fried our burber up and our wally dogs
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: get a hint of liver with that.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: That's what someone was saying. Someone's like, now we're eating
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: out of the same oil that had that damn god liver. God,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: she was a lot of fun all the gall that
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: open to own that restaurant.
• 27:57
  Speaker 5: Your news here, we got a nick from any email
• 28:00
  Speaker 5: from Nick in Pennsylvania. He says he was fishing at
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: a local state park, a group of anglers on shore.
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: He catches a largemouth bass. He was using a Texas
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: rigged worm, and in the hook set he makes, he
• 28:15
  Speaker 5: damages the large mouth's gills and the bass shows up
• 28:18
  Speaker 5: bleeding when he gets it to shore, and he says,
• 28:20
  Speaker 5: there's an old couple next to him fishing, and they
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: reach for their styrofoam cup of Coca cola and say, well,
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: here's what you do. You pour that on the gills
• 28:28
  Speaker 5: and that'll fix it up right. They'll swim away happy
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: and healthy.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: I'm familiar, Okay, not with his story.
• 28:33
  Speaker 5: But Nick is. He is a little bit hesitant to
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: do it, but the old lady insists, and so he
• 28:41
  Speaker 5: like doesn't want to have a confrontation in front of
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: these kids and stuff, and so he just goes with it.
• 28:46
  Speaker 5: She pours a coke on the gills, he releases the
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: fish away, and he says he was so bothered by
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: the whole thing that he just left after that because
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: he was like, it was like kind of gross. I
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: don't really like how that all played out. I think
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: the social interaction and also what did I just do
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: to this fish? The woman insisted that she has seen
• 29:01
  Speaker 5: this work on muskies. It's how you fix a fish's
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: bleeding gills. So Nick writes in says, did I handle this? Okay,
• 29:08
  Speaker 5: what do you guys think I wrote about this?
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I'm not interested in that question, which question what he
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: ought to have done?
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Okay, I'm interested in what is that about?
• 29:20
  Speaker 5: This started on Facebook about a decade ago. There was
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: a couple viral videos. One of them was from this
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: musky guide in Canada and he says, here's what you
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: do if you gill hook a fish and he pours
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: I think it was diet coke. Diet coke was like
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: his drink of choice.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: I don't understand how that happens the first time, Like,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: how did someone like I had got an idea here.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, that's what you're saying.
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: Anyway, this guy figured out, he saw somebody figure it out.
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: He pours the diet coke on the muskies gills, musky
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: swims away, and he says, voila, that's how you save
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: a fish's life. Video got one point two million views.
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: I know that number because I wrote about this shortly
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: after to talk about this theory, and that that was
• 30:04
  Speaker 5: the number that I had at the time. It's probably
• 30:06
  Speaker 5: tripled that by now. But basically, these folks would say,
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: you have a fish with a gill injury, you pour
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: soda on it. It cauterizes the wound and allows the
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: fish to swim away. That's that's the science behind it,
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: like the acid.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: In the coke or something.
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: Yes, I think you could. You could envision in your
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: head if you were to pour a soda across a fish,
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: it would just sizzle, right, and that's like doing the
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: cauterizing of the gills. This is what these proponents would
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: say of this. I was like, no, that that sounds
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: really dumb. So I interviewed some fish biologists, a fish doctor,
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: what do you think about this? Fish doctor of pouring
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: soda on a wounded fish's gills.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: And basically they're all like, this is as dumb as
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: it sounds, you should not do this one. You're over
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: handling a stressed fish, particularly if it's like a northern
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: or a muskie, and they have that slime. That slime
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: is coming off on your hands. They need that to survive.
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: That fights off like because of the shallow warm water
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: they live in. That's fighting off different infections they might
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: encounter up there and make them faster. Musky and pike,
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: they need that to survive. That slime on them, So
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: you're over handling the fish. Not good for them. You're
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: introducing a foreign substance to a very sensitive part of
• 31:16
  Speaker 5: the fish's body, its gills, particularly one that's acidic, like
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: Brody pointed out, also not good for them. And finally,
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: if it was working out like what they say, you're
• 31:25
  Speaker 5: cauterizing the gills. Well, the fish's gills are doing gas exchange,
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: so you're just cauterizing their whole gas exchange system. They
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: kind of need that to breathe. So if that's what
• 31:36
  Speaker 5: you're witnessing happening, you're probably not improving.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: The fish's health.
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: So I wrote about this after interviewing these biologists a
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: year later. Some biologists actually study this. What they do
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: is they take some fish. I think it was pike
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: that they worked on. This was in twenty twenty. They
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: took a player's and they wounded the fish's gills. They
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: then poured soda on it.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is as bad as testa shampoo on little rabbits.
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: Yes, they and then they release the wounded fish into
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: a tank and they observe it for a half hour
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: and watch what happens. Uh. They determined that it did nothing. Oh,
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: that there was no improvement to the fish's.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: Health, but no detriment.
• 32:14
  Speaker 5: I don't know that they knew that. I don't think
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: that was like a takeaway that they came away with.
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: But they were not helping. And again, if we go
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: back to things about like you're you're over handling the fish.
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: It's already stressed out. Just get it back in the water.
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: Fish their blood will naturally clot in water. And so
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: if you are witnessing what you think is something working,
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: when you're pouring soda on it, you're just like witnessing
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: the fish's body doing its own thing without your soda
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: being present.
• 32:42
  Speaker 6: Just simply because pouring soda on it makes a similar
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: sound to a hot iron cotter, something like, oh, it
• 32:48
  Speaker 6: must be doing it.
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: Yes, And so the one I talked about John and
• 32:53
  Speaker 5: Phil this per fill up John Anderson, Musky guide from Canada.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: Even after this came out, he said, Uh, no, I
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: don't believe the biologists. Actually, and he started a campaign.
• 33:03
  Speaker 5: It's called Save a million Fish. And this is like
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: the main pillar of this campaign is you pour soda
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: on fishkills?
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Uh? But what so he is?
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: He said? He said, he's purtisonally witnessed at work on
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: eighteen muskies, so he knows that it works, and he doesn't.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: He doesn't, but he would have to be living in
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: a place where he could run two realities at once.
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: He must be doing that, yeah, only only saying that
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: the like just because the fish live, doesn't mean it
• 33:28
  Speaker 5: lived because he poured coke on it. No, and the
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: science or the like, your your witnessing event is about
• 33:35
  Speaker 5: two seconds after that fish. You have no idea what
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: it does after that. Save a million fish, Save a
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: million fish. John said that he still like has dyes
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: at coke with him so he can perform this diet coke.
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: Diet coke, I know, actually I think it was diet
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: coke is what he used to do. I think maybe
• 33:51
  Speaker 5: he transitioned to just a carbonated water. Now that's what Johnny.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Cauterizes, just the bubbles. The bubbles are caught at.
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: Phil, make the sizzle sound again.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: You're good at it. That was.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: But yeah, but this guy wants to know if he
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: should have ignored that lady and just let it go now.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: That I know what I know.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Like, for instance, one time, my daughter got all bit
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: up by hornets and a lot of people had advice
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: about what she ought to do, and a lot of
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: it I knew wasn't gonna work, but I was just
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: like that, sure, you know, they're like, put motor oil
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: on them.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, Like, I know it's not gonna work,
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: but I don't want to be rude.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: But in this case, I feel like he he would have,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: knowing what I now know, I would say. I think
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: he'd say, ma'am, I appreciate it. Having done a little
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: research into this, I know it's well intentioned. I don't
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: think that that's the best thing for this bass.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: I caught him.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: I kind of got the bass into this situation. This
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: is my this is my deal here, you know, this
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: is my program, and I'm gonna have to do what
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: makes sense to me, which is putting the fish back in.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I love this guy's style. He had an unpleasant social interaction.
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: He just left. Yeah, a strange detail. He does provide
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: about this couple who tries to save the fish with
• 35:08
  Speaker 5: the soda. They said they were fishing with children's fishing rods.
• 35:12
  Speaker 5: Genera know that I've witnessed this.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: My wife would call that avoidance.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: He has an avoidance problem, or if she was, if
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: that was if she was criticizing me for something, she'd
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: be like, you're having avoidance.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: That's where you get mad and walk off, or something
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: Don't pour soda on fish gills.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: Eating bears that eat rotten bait. This is a quick one,
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: I think, pretty easy. One guy writes in I just
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: got my first archery bear in Saskatchewan. I've tried bear
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: me a sketchewan try. I've tried bear meat and I
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: enjoy it. I was looking forward to filling my freezer
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: with something other than venison for.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: A little variety.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: However, the outfitter baits with meat scraps from the butcher.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: They're not kept in a freezer at camp, so they
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: get a little rotten. He highly recommended I do not
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: eat the meat from bears because of this. I was
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: a little disappointed. Do you think that bear meat would
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: be okay and just and just make sure that it's
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: thoroughly cooked. Do I need to find an outfit or
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: that has a better baiting process that is more conducive
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: to better bear, to better bear meat for the freezer.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: Bears eat rotten meat all the time, whether it's that
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: a bait station or not. Yes, deer carcasses, elk carcasses,
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: road killed raccoon, whatever they can find other dead bears,
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: So that's not going to have an effect on whether
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: the meat is safe or not.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Now most of that is probably rotten.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a persistent idea though, Yes, there's two.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: There's two things go on. I got to final, not final.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: I have go ahead.
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: You can say what you're gonna say.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: This idea that like, if it ate something that you're
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: then eating what it ate, right, you are, but you're not. Yeah,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: if you shoot ducks that were running around on a
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: cattle where they're graining cattle your winter. Those ducks are
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: eating cattle where I recommend that you eat cowshit. No,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: can you eat a duck that might have ate some Yes,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: if if there's all kinds of things to eat, all
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: kinds of things, it's not the same as you eating it.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: If a wild pig eats a rattlesnake and they will,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: or a havelina eats a rattlesnake, you're like, can't eat him.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I'll be poisoned by the rattlesnake. It's just like you're not.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: It's going through a whole it's going through a whole
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: digestive process and then through complex chemistry that I can't explain,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: is later converted into muscle and.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: You're eating it. It's not like a direct fac simile
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: of what it ate. Yeah. I go through this all
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: the time because my dogs go out and eat shit
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: and then they come in and give me kisses. I
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: tell people, it's not like I ate shit.
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: That is, I just can't. Can't dogs that eat ship.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Some of them suffered from it.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: I have some like kind of experience in this area.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: I got one big, last final point. You're ready for
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: you move on.
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: I don't want to throw shade at this outfitter. But
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: I hunted with an outfitter in Idaho on a It
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: was like a group like industry hunt thing where it
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: was hounds and bait bait, a bear hunt and there's like,
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know, six or seven hunters at that camp.
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: I was the only one that kept the meat from
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: the bear I killed. Everyone killed bears. The outfitter same
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: thing like, ah, the meat is no good, it'll make
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: you sick, blah blah blah. I am thoroughly convinced that
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: in that case that outfitter was looking to get out
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: of doing the work of dealing without meat.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: It is I've never hunted there and can I've nerd
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: done the Canada bare thing. But report after report from
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: people I know well, people that I know and trust,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: I've heard report after report of outfitters telling clients that
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: they'll try out you can't bring it back.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: What do you mean, I can't bring it back? Well,
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: you shouldn't bring it back. It's not good.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: It's like there is a culture, not ubiquitous, but there
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: is a culture of trying to talk people out, and
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: it's because it's just to ditgch it and they come
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: up with all these reasons why you can't use it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: I have friends that have been where they're like, I
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: don't understand, Like I just want it. You can't have it, No,
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I looked, I can't have it. Well you can, but
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: you don't, right.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: And when I when I, it was like a surprise
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: to these people that I like shocking that I would
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: want to keep this thing. So I would tell, like,
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: if you're going to book another hunt up there with
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: a different outfit, or like, be clear up front that
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: you're very interested in keeping the meat and get that
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: sorted out from the start.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: But to get more specifically into his question, like sure
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: it it's not. If it's eating rotten meat, it's not
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: a safety issue for her. It could be a palatability issue.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Like I got a buddy that killed a I got
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: a buddy that killed a black bear here, killed a
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: black bear off a rotten cow, all full of maggots
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: and stuff. He was feeding on it, and he said, man,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: you could always smell it on that meat, and there's
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: real off pudding. It's not a safety issue. It's a
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: palatability issue. If I was baiting bears, I would want
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: to bait bears. I would bait bears or something where
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: I'm like, if I'm gonna do this and feed them,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going to feed them something that kind of adds
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: to the quality the same way, the same way, you know,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: the same way you do in cattle production, or the
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: same way you doing wagu production or whatever. Like, there's
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: certain that give you a certain result. Big grain fat
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: and Coyle's tastes pretty damn good. They got good fat
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: on them. Some people like it, some people don't. But
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: it's like a result from what you feed it. H
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: And so sure I could picture that I was gonna
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: feed it all stuff that I thought was gonna yield
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: like a good flavorful fat, Like if I could feed
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: it grain and molasses, I'd probably feed it grain and molasses.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: Yep, you got this next one, Steve, Oh.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: This is a note. Yeah, okay.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: He says he was listening to the last week's news
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: show and we were talking about dying from pea fast,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: chemicals and fish. He was thinking about time he about died.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: He says that our show intro is more dangerous than
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: pea fast. So he says, I was standing at the
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: top of the ladder listening to the Meat Eater podcast
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: one after another. I was under a bunch of willow
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: oak trees that were the inevitable cause of clogged clogged gutters.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: There was the long pause between episodes per usual, and
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: he's talking about like the show intro. Well, he's up there,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: and here's in the show intro. There's the tree falling.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: We've gotten multiple reports from people about this yep that
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: the tree falling noise led him to believe that the
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: willow was breaking and he about stumbled and fell off
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: his ladder. We had a guy sitting in his tree
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: stambo hunting one time and the same thing happened to him.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: He was just kind of waiting for things to mellow out,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: listening to the show and heard that tree crack and
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: thought it scary.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: This tree was coming down.
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: I have a buddy who swears his dog is triggered
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: by it. I don't know if the dog thinks the
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: tree is falling, but whatever that specific noise is, he's
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: just not into it.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Doesn't like that sound doesn't bode well.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: So out of the news. Now here's kind of a
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: perennial news story that keeps popping up. With it's popped
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: up again and it's about legal trouble for the NRA.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: So let's kind a little bit of a long I'm
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: gonna try to do a simplified version of a long
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: story the New York Attorney General. There's an attorney general
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: in New York named Letitia James. Latitia James is kind
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: of I mean, she's famous for a handful of things,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: but one of the things she's famous.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: For is.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: She went after the Trump business very heavily for a
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: claim that they had falsified real estate values in order
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: to apply for loans.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: So basically.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Overstating the value of collateral in order to get loans.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: And so after Trump's first term, when everybody was trying
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: to prosecute him for all this kind of stuff. Everybody's
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: looking for any reason to prosecute him, she was one
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: of the people trying to prosecute him. And then the
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: tip then it got turned because during Trump too, they're like, hey,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: we're gonna go use the legal system to target her
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: the way she used the legal system to target Oh,
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: so then they're going after her about I can't remember
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: what the hell they're going after her about, but anyhow,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: that little saga, So if you recognize the name Latissa James.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: That has to do with this kind.
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: Of law fair.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Retribution, counter retribution between her office and Trump administration, Trump
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: business empire. She really wanted to go after the National
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Rifle Association, So how do you go after a nonprofit?
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: So what she wanted to do she wanted to attack
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: the NRA, and she comes up with this idea of
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: looking at how they're utilizing money.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: And like, an important detail is NRA was headquartered in
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: New York, right.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: So it was her business because it was a nonprofit
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: stationed or certified in New York. So the nonprofit is
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: under New law, you can form a nonprofit and establish
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: it in all kinds of different places, but they happen
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: to be certified or basically chartered, incorporated whatever under New
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: York law. So she she's not really interested in I mean,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: in all honesty, she's not interested in how the NRA
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: is governed. She is interested in tearing down the NRA.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: And doing this, she uncovers a bunch of bad spending
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: practices and makes this case that the NRA is defrauding
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: its membership by blowing money on things they should be
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: blown on.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, And so Susan, what she wants.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: She wants to say the malfeasans is so bad, the
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: NRA is defrauding their membership so bad that they should
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: be basically killed as an organization. She doesn't get that.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: She gets is that the long time president is it president?
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Is it called president or CEO?
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: And you're at the NRA. I believe president CEO. Okay,
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: Wayne LaPier.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Everyone you've seen Wayne LaPier your whole life. The guy
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: ran the n RA for thirty some years.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: What comes out of this is that Wayne Lapierre owes
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: the organization four point three million dollars. Okay, So the
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: claim is Wayne LaPier misspent four point three million dollars
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: and owes it back to the organization. He appealed it.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: So when you're seeing it pop up in the news again,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: now is the appeal failed. Some other things got thrown out,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: but the appeal failed, and it still is like Lapierre
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: owes the.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: Org back four point three million dollars. The spending.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: So some examples of the spending here be like this.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: This generated a ton of headlines. Wayne LaPier spent two
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: hundred and seven seventy five thousand dollars. So again, two
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five thousand dollars on wardrobe okay, at
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: a Beverly.
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: Hills boutique custom made designer suits.
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: The argument on his part is, Hey, I play a role,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: I'm on TV, I need to look a certain way,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: and that these are basically costumes that I must wear.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: People being like that is insane. Two hundred and seventy
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: five thousand dollars for some suits for wardrobe is excessive.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: Okay. There was a there.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Was a some restaurant tabs at an Italian restaurant, like
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: a five three hundred and ninety eight dollars restaurant tab
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: a place they had a cigar bar. There was some
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: gifts like Wayne Lapierre bought gifts for people or friends
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: of the organization, Like he bought I'm on a twelve
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: hundred dollars handbag and build it back to the NRA.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: He bought someone a pair of eight hundred and sixty
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: dollars candlesticks, build it back to the NRA. Some of
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: these things seem kind of nitpicky, and I don't really
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: get the problem. At his home, he has security people
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: at his home. The security guys were getting bid up
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: real bad by Skeeters. So he spends eight hundred and
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: ten bucks on a Skeeter control package, saying, Hey, the
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Skeeters are tearing up the security guards. It's eight hundred bucks.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know that.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: Feels you know, I don't know. But he also like
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: took his family on a vacation rights like private.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Here's the one that got Here's the one that feels
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: a little a little nutty. So after the Sandy Hook shooting,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: there was two mass shootings that kind of came close together,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: and Wayne LaPier, who has a security detail and the organization,
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: did say to Wayne LaPier, like, it's not safe for
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: you to fly commercial as the head of the organization
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: when there's so much animosity toward the organization around the
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: gun rights debate. It was agreed to for security purposes
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: he should.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: Not fly commercial.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Well, after those shootings, he had said, well, I'm gonna
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: skip what he said. He went on a very expensive
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: trip to the Bahamas, Okay, and stayed on a super
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: yacht owned by a contractor who has done one hundred
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: million dollars in contract work for the NRA. Builds some
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: airfare to the NRA and goes to the Bahamas and
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: does a lengthy vacation, which it's a it's a vacation
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars in total. When
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: pressed on it, La Pierre said it was a safety,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: a security vacation that after the Sandy Hook shooting, things
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: were so hot, I had to get somewhere to protect
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: my safety, and I knew I could protect my safety
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: if I went into the Bahamas and stayed on this
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: super yacht. But then it's like, but how is it
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: that you were also at a family member's wedding while
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: you were there?
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: That was pre planned?
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: So for that reason, some of this caused like a
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: lot of internal upheaval and internal strife within the NRA
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: and some people. Even though Latista James is in no
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: way trying to help the NRA, She's not like, oh
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: I feel bad, this is really terrible that they're misusing
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: their funds. She's going like, I want to kill the NRA.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: How could I kill them? Well, I'll kill them over this,
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: pretending like I'm trying to help me and protect member money.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: But it brings up all this embarrassing stuff. It's caused
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: a ton of trouble for the NRA, and then within
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: this fight. There's this other fight. They use a main
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: PR firm, so that so here's the NRA is a
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: nonprofit organization, but much of their work is done by
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: a PR firm, which is a for profit organization. So
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: what you have in nonprofit land is you wind up
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: going like, Okay, we'll take tons of money and hand
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: it to our PR firm, I mean hundreds of millions
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: of dollars and hand it to the PR firm, and
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: then the PR firm Ackerman McQueen, Yeah, Ackerman McQueen. The
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: PR firm because their for profit will then do a
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: bunch of the weird things m hm, because hey, we're
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: just paying them all this retainer money and then they
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: do the things, and so it gives you like these
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: ways to get around stuff.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: All this has been quite scandalous. Yeah, there's and then
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: they they also tried to hide a lot of this.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: There's a quote from someone in the NRA say we
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: have to be careful because Wayne wants to get through
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: the whole year, saying he hasn't used private aircraft. Ye,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: so it's just like real bad. They knew it was bad.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Certain people, like longtime staff people within the organization start
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: there starts to be a lot of turning on each
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: other within the organization, and then the organization has a foundation,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: and there's tons of bickering within the foundation. But the
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: thing here, since twenty nineteen, the NRA's revenue is down
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: forty six percent since twenty nineteen. Member dues member dues
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: at the NRA since twenty nineteen have dropped fifty seven
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: point five percent. Before the MIRA became like a really
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: a gun rights organization, it was a safety and training organization.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Their safety and training spend twenty seven and a half
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: percent decline since twenty nineteen. Part of what made well,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: let me so, their legislative spending, Okay, money they spend
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: on lobbying, lobbying campaigns.
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: Spending time when they're an extremely powerful lobby.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: In DC they were.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: That's what I was going to kind of close on
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: here is well, let me say this at first, their
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: legislative spending, so the core money spent to like influence
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: legislation is down by over fifty percent from twenty nineteen.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: But twenty so twenty nineteen was an AWF election year,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: but down by or fifty percent, so like core mission
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: spending down, I mean they are in a tough spot
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: to the point where they're liquidating investment assets in order
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: to cover expenses right now. But they were probably and
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: maybe I'm wrong. I don't think I'm wrong. I think
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: that they were at the height of their powers, probably
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: the most effective nonprofit organization in American history. I cannot
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: think of a rival in terms of just how effectively
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: and tenaciously they defended Second Amendment rights. Can you imagine if,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: like the wildlife conservation movement had a organization of that power.
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the NRA like had the advantage of
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: just having to focus on a very narrow single issue.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and never having anything that doesn't like.
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: The track from what they you know, what they were
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: able to accomplish.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Part of the current split within the NRA is between
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: it's like the split within the Iranian regime. It's a
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: split between like the old Garden hardliners, right, And so
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: there's a there's there's like Wayne Lop people that came
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: up with Wayne Lapierre and and like his vision, like
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: his mandate. I'm not saying they like the spending the
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: spending issues, but like that vision. It's like a like
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: rigid take no prisoners, like non negotiable defense, Second Amendment
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: rights to all offense right that want that, And there's
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: a version that wants a there's a faction that wants
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: a softer version more well of general public opinion.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: And they're and they're duking it out.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: But yeah, they were, I mean, bar none like I
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: challenge someone to think of a of a nonprofit that
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: that defended its core mission as effectively as the enter
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: like I used to have. This is the crazy part.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Back in these days, they would come after. They would
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: come not just enemies, they come after you for not
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: being friendly enough. I used to have people within this
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: come after me because that wasn't like I'm like, I
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: make a show where we run around with guns, but
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I somehow wasn't like pro gun. That's all I ever
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: do is play with guns. But I wasn't pro gun.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: Yet they had so much money they were going attacking
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: the pro gun people.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: They'd be like, dude, we've we've gotten all the anti
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: gun people. Now we're gonna go get to some of
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: the gun We're gonna have to the gun guys.
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: And now it's just different.
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: And your research did what did it attribute that that
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: you know just fall off and membership and dollars.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought that up. I don't know I have.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: It's two things. One, there was just a lot of
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: I mean this, the infighting, the financial stuff made.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: A lot of people hesitant.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: I think that people have alternatives now in defending their
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: secondment rights, more local organizations, whatever, people.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: Have alternative gun owners of America.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Politically, it's it's tricky politically. You like, what happens is
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: if you had if you had someone come into so
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: in two years, let's say in two years you have
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: a very hard core or gun legislation candidate emerge on
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: the Democratic ticket.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: Okay, someone that's.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Going to campaign gun Sorry, you get the Democrats put
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: forward a guy and he's campaigning on gun control. Of
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: course you're going to see a spike. Yeah, in the
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: gun business. There's a thing in the gun business called
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: the Trump slump. And people don't feel with Trump in office,
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: people don't feel that their gun rights are at risk.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: So gun spending goes down, Ammunition spending goes down because
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: people feel secure and having the rights they have. But
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: what's weird is this huge decline since twenty nineteen included
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: four years of Biden a gun control president. So I
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: could see if I was looking at some chart that
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: showed over the last eighteen months since Trump won that
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: there's been a decline, but this decline was through a
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: gun control administration.
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: I think the I mean, I think the financial improprieties
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: had to heaven well they I think they came out
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: for the first time in nineteen Like I think this
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: is like a five year running story. Yes, the first
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: big wave. And I mean I think like there's a
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: lot of people that died in the wool guard carrying
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: members who saw the NRA suits thing at fifteen hundred
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: dollars a night hotels, yeah, and pulled their bucks. Yeah.
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: And I just wondered if it was like an aging
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: aging out of membership. This is changing demographics.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 58:35
  Speaker 5: According to federal election filings, fifty six percent of NRA
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: donors reported their occupation as retired. So I think they're
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: probably just dying out. Is like one of the one
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: of the elements of this toom.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: So most of the James case, most of the James
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: to sum up, most of Latsia James's case has not
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: gone the way she won, but there's still this obligation
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: that La Pierre owes this money back to the organization.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Not only that, as it stands right now, he can't
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: have a position. He cannot have a formal leadership position
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: within the NRA for ten years. He can do fundraising,
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: he can volunteer, he can write op eds, but he
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: can't have a formal leadership position within the organization for
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: a decade after thirty years of being at the HELM.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: But he resigned right when the thing, when this corruption
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: case came up. I'm gonna skip the Lake Michigan Beach dispute.
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, let's hear about some mushroom deaths.
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: Forgers in California can't stop eating poisonous mushrooms. We'll talk
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: about it. From November November twenty twenty five to May
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: twenty twenty six, that's a seven month span, there were
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: forty nine reported cases of wild mushroom poisonings in the state.
• 59:53
  Speaker 5: Officials are saying it's the largest outbreak of mushroom associated
• 59:57
  Speaker 5: poisonings in California history, the largest outbreak in American history,
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: in one of the largest outbreaks in modern global history.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 5: It's not an outbreak. This is go ahead. I'll tell
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 5: you the verbiage I'll tell I'll take it up there.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 5: Here's here's the verbiage that California you uses. This is
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: from their California Department of Public Health outbreak of severe
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: illness and death linked to ingestion of poisonous wild mushrooms.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: The CDC says the California Poison Control System has responded
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: to an outbreak of thirty nine cases of amatox and
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: mushroom poisoning. That's the verbiage they use. I don't think
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: it's because, like if there was a salmonila outbreak, you
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 5: would call it a salmonil outbreak from lettuce at Costco
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 5: or whatever. But I think that's the language that they're
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: applying the same thing here.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: I think this goes back to zombie deer in Turkey's
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: ambushing people. Just like using the wrong word.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: I would call it a bunch of dudes messing up.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: I would say California is growing mushroom poisoning. Streak of
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: dudes messing up is the biggest ever in the US.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: The largest in American history. Of those forty nine cases,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: four have resulted in death in another four have required
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: a liver transplant. Victims in this lash of poisonings range
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 5: from age nineteen months to eighty four nineteen months nineteen
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: months babies. Most of the poisonings are from counties on
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 5: California Central Coast and San Francisco Bay. The mushrooms were
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: picked in urban parks, wreck areas, nature preserves, national forests,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 5: state lands, and at least one case a National park.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: So coming from urban and very much wilderness areas. The
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: two primary culprits are the Western Destroying Angel and the
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 5: death cap, both of which are species of Amanita mushrooms.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: We're looking at those two mushrooms here, death cap on
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: the left. That is an invasive mushroom that showed up
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: I think in thenineteen thirties, likely on some lumber from Europe.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 5: And then the Western Destroying Angel, which is native.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: Now are they mistaken those for something else?
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 5: Spencer, We'll get to the reasons why.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: Or are they thinking, oh, that's a Western destroying angel.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: Why don't I try it?
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: So you know, honey, can you go grab the baby,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: give it some Western destroying Some.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: People might if they don't know, they'll just be like mushrooms,
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: I want.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 5: To eat it to some of the reasons. And second,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 5: if you're not familiar amanita mushrooms are they are mushroom classic.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: They are. You know.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 5: They have a straight stock with a big cap. It's
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: got very defined gills underneath. The most well known of
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: the amanita species is a fly a garrick, which is
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 5: a red cap with white warts. This would be like
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: if you told the cartoonists to make a mushroom for
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: a kid's book. This is what they super Mario mushroom
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: is a fly a garrick mushroom.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, that thing is used widely in art.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: And I'll point out that you should mention the nice
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: little gift I got you.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 5: Oh, Steve got me a gift where you were in
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: State of Washington, d C. And he brought me home
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: a nice little serving tray that has an amanita musquerra
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: or a flying garrick on it.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: It's the best kind of gift when you see someone
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: and you just you see something and just yeah, kindness
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: of your heart.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: It was a kind gift.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 7: I was.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: I was.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 5: I think both of our wives were actually probably more
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: moved by it than we were.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: Because my wife was astounded.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: She was, and then my wife when I told her
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: the story, she was like, Oh, that that's so nice
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: and that she also liked. Hearing that, Katie was like,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 5: you know, amused by please Steve, yes do it? Uh?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: And my wife hearing that that interaction happened. Friend, Yeah, no,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: it was. It made an impact beyond just Steven.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: I was like, I got half mind to do a
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: nice thing for Spencer.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: Uh, this this is mushroom classic that is the most
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: famous Amanita.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: It's it's like the one that shows up all over
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: pop culture. It's what Mario eats to level up. It's
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 5: the mushroom that Toad's head is based off of. It's
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: what Alice in Wonderland eat to grow bigger or smaller.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: It's feature in the Elder Scrolls as a magical item.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: It's what the Smurfs live inside of. That that is
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 5: pop culture's mushroom, and it allows Steve to tell his
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 5: favorite antidote about the fly garrick about the Reindeers.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's it's got hallucinogenic characteristics. And these guys
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: in Siberia figured out you could feed it to a
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: reindeer and then drink that reindeer's piss and you trip.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah, this is truth and if Santa Claus is of
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: course real. But folks who say he isn't, they say
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: that those shepherds came up with Santa Claus after drinking
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: the tainted urine while they were tripping off of the
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 5: fly Garrick urine.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 3: That's why he's red and white.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 5: Yes, exactly, and like the reindeer were flying that they
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: were tending to.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: So oh, it's definitely true.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, Santa is real, but of course if he wasn't,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 5: they would say this is where it was created with these.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: Why you're telling me is true? I just know it's yes.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking we ditched this year's Family Feud Trivia and
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: we film a special episode of Well.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 5: To Steve's credit, I was. I was also, I'm surprised
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: by this. When we were doing part of My Plate
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: a few years ago, I found some fly Garrick's in
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 5: Montana prior to us filming, and I said, Steve, if
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 5: I find more, can we eat them for the show?
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: Is that okay? Fully expecting you to say no, And
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 5: then I could be a martyr and be like if
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 5: and Steve would let me eat the hallucingenic mushrooms. Steve said,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 5: go for it. I excited. I was again. I was
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 5: moved that Steve would let me make a YouTube video
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: eating the fly garret mushrooms. Now, if you want to
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: do that, we're not you don't do it. But if
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 5: you want to do it, you have to boil them.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 5: You toss out that water, you boil them a second time,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: and then you can ingest small amounts of the fly.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: Again, don't do.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 4: It, Yeah, don't do this.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: But a question, Yeah, I want to wedge your question
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: in here. This is fascinating, you know how like we
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: just girls out of the ground. Yeah, but they used
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: to have laws about even though it's a plant, like
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: most plants out in the woods, you can just eat them.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: But then they make but you can't eat that plant, right,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: and then certain other drugs come out of the ground
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: and they say you can't eat that.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: Sure, or you could take right during prohibition.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: You could leave an apple land around and it turns
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: into booze. They'd be like, you can't drink that, yeah,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: and you'd be like, it's just growing out in the woods.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: Why not.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: If you were run around eating those, you're not breaking
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: a law.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 5: Probably not, I bet if you were to like sell
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 5: them at a park on the bench you'd be breaking
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: the law. Then that's where like the line gets drawn.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 5: But I think if you were, just if I gave
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 5: them to Brody, I don't think the law gets broken
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 5: in that instance.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: Unless you would you could prove you're trying to kill me.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: Sure, So again, that is a fly garrick. That is
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: a type of amanita mushroom that we're discussing closely related
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 5: to the death cap and the destroying angel. Amanita mushrooms
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: are what are causing all these poisons. To put this
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 5: into perspective, the United States has about fifty cases of
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 5: amanita poisonings each year. California hit that number itself in
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: seven months. So why the surge of poisonings Brody. There
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 5: seems to be two contributing factors. One is that the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: area has simply had more amanita mushrooms this year. Typically
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 5: in central and northern California, amanita are around in December
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: and January, and they're kind of limited to that short window.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: This year due to some unusual rains, they were showing
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 5: up early and staying late. I talked to one forger
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 5: I know in Yuba County. Her name is Ellen. She
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: said that this last foraging season had the most amanita
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: she's ever seen in her life that goes for the
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: edible varieties and the poisonous varieties. She said her local
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 5: forging friends are seeing the same thing this year. Ellen
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 5: also said that typically she doesn't see a lot of
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: death camps at higher l elevations. Death camps are the
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 5: invasive ones. So maybe this is how long it's taken
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: for them to spread to some higher elevations in the
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 5: Sierra Nevadas, or maybe it was just the weather this
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: year that allowed them to grow so prevalent. So reasonumber one,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: there are a lot more amanita is out this year.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 5: Reason number two. Most of the victims are foreigners. California
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: has reported that forty nine victims speak seven different languages,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: so many of them are relying on foraging knowledge from
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: Central America or Eastern Europe, not realizing that they're picking
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: a mushroom that has the word death in it. The
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: state is taking some action to spread awareness. Napa County
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: is now running radio ads and three languages to warn
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: of poisonous mushrooms. California has updated flyers that warn about
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 5: amanita poisonings to include nine different languages now, and they
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 5: are making that signage more prevalent. Here three examples English, Ukrainian,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: and Vietnamese. So you'll start now seeing these around some
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: national parks and city parks other places common for foraging.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: So this is what California is trying to do to
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 5: stop this. Just talk about it a lot. Tips to
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 5: avoid mush poisonings if your a new forager, stick to
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 5: the fool proof form morals, Chantrell's Chicken of the woods. Puffballs,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: as the name implies, those are the easy to identify
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: ones that are found across the continent. Once you've mastered those,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: you can you can learn a few more oysters, bullets,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: pheasant backs, headed the woods. If you know the fool
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: proof fur and those four I just mentioned that will
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: get you through ninety percent of scenarios when you're wondering
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 5: if I should eat this when you're looking at a mushroom.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 5: And then last tip is when looking at puffballs, do
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 5: a cross section on them. That simply means you cut
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 5: in and have vertically going from what would be like
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: the head of the mushroom down to its toes. Some
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 5: poisonous mushrooms from the Amanita family or vomitters, they will
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 5: look like a puffball when they're a juvenile mushroom. We're
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 5: looking at one here. This you can see is a
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 5: small mushroom that from the outside would look just like
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 5: a junior puffball.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: Now this I did not know.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 5: You cut this and happen cut it in half. You
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 5: do the cross section. If you see any gaps in there,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 5: or if you see what appears to be like someone
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 5: took a stamp and they put a different mushroom in there,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 5: that is a juvenile amanita or a juvenile vomitter. That
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 5: is one you don't mess with. But from the outside
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 5: it looks just like a puffball.
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: I'm seeing something vaguely sexual.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a puffball.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: Just be white.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: There's nothing.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 5: The next picture, phill, this is what a puffball will
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 5: look like. It is just solid white flesh from one
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 5: side to the other. Yeah, it's total fish.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: Steve and I'm are on a turkey hunt with the kids.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: A few years back. We found some of those giant
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: ass puffballs. Very underwhelming, man.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 5: So do the cross section thing. I saved a co
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: worker at worker who texted me one day. They're like,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 5: this is certainly a puffball, right, and so it looks
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: like it cut in half and send me a picture
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 5: of that, and they did and it was an amanita.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: So I'm like, yeah, don't eat that one. So it's
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 5: easy to have.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: That's a good bit of information right there.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 5: And remember, there's old mushroom hunters, there's bold mushroom huns.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 5: There are no old bold mushroom hunters.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: My only thought here is, uh, I'm all for putting
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: your kids in all kinds of situations that that, and
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: I don't want to blame the victim that something just
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: strikes me as unusual.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: There nineteen month old, nineteen months old.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 5: There was also some of the folks involved in these
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 5: poisonings I had were labeled as unhoused. So just like
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 5: grabbing what was accessible in a park. I don't know
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 5: that that was the case with the toddler in this story,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 5: but it but it played a role among the forty
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 5: nine victims.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: Case you haven't heard, the first ever mule deer was
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: killed by a hunter in Alaska. This happened in mid April,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: so just like six six eight weeks ago.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: Spring hunt.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: Yep, I assume he must. I didn't really figure this
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 4: part out. He must have been bear hunting.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming no man him they've been seeing him around.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: They just hadn't gotten a chance. I got it out
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: of his yard.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, okay, so Skagway resident, and can you pull up?
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: There you go there it is just the dough mule
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: deer there. Can you pull up that map?
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: Phil?
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 6: I don't think I sent him, but I'll find it.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: I sent it to you.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: If not, I'll find this guy. This guy's name is
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 4: West and Nelson. He killed this deer neared Skagway, which
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: is kind of sits at the top of the arm
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 4: of Southeast Alaska like that, that coastal stretch of southeast Alasta.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: And I think, like any true Southeast Alaska, looks like
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: he went for the old headshot.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, neck er, had you yep?
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: Yep. That's that's proof that he's a he's a low
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: He's in a grey hooded sweatshirt.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 4: And so got he got the first one ever in
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 4: Alaska that they know of that hunter has killed. This
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: dough had previously raised a fawn, but it was not
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 4: pregnant at the time of harvest. According to Alaska Fishing
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: Game uh Nelson gave gave fish a game biological samples,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: had hired all that stuff they wanted to to kind
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: of dissect and look at. He also kept the meat.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: In Alaska, mule deer are classic classified as a non
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 4: native species with no established historical range there. They're not
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: native to the state of Alaska. Therefore, there's no close season,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: no bag limit. Hunters are encouraged to shoot them if
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 4: they see them. Wildlife officials kind of are classifying this
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 4: this event as like a management like a milestone occurrence
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: of a new species showing up, and also a management
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: opportunity because it helps like see what's going on with
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 4: the species and what those deer might be carrying into Alaska.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 4: If you're wondering, this isn't the first deer mule deer
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: that showed up in Alaska. They've been there before.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: One got hit on the road.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they one got hit in twenty seventeen. One got
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 4: hit on the highway near North Pole, Alaska. Occasional sightings
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 4: go back to at least the seventies. Three mule deer
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 4: reported north of Delta Junction in twenty thirteen, So it's
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 4: just like something that's kind of happening more and more.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: We've talked about this with with mountain lions, just.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: A little while back coming down the Stakeen River yep, yep.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 4: But the most recent sightings have kind of clustered around
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: that the Skagway Haines Eagle area. They've been seen as
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 4: far north as Fairbanks, So they're kind of like all
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 4: along that western border of the Yukon territory.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, points of entry, like the south ones are probably
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: coming down the Staqin, yeah, and the North ones are
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: coming in along. I think the northern ones are coming
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: in along the Alaska Highway yep.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 4: And that's that's one of the reasons they give, like
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: for why they're they're coming into Alaska's human development, like
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: building roads and giving them avenues for easy avenues for travel.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: All these deer, again are coming from the Yukons. The
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 4: mule deer date back almost one hundred years than late
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: nineteen thirties in the Yukon territory. They're not native, they
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 4: kind of moved in there on their own. And they
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: believe that there's about a thousand mule deer in the
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: Yukon Territory right now, so this is probably going to
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: keep happening. Biologists pointed a few different factors for why
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: they're coming in. Warmer winters reduce snow depths. Agricultural expansion
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 4: is a big one, so like they're able to move
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: into these area and the areas and fine food sources
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: on farms. Then again we talked about road construction gives
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: them travel avenues and then just natural dispersal. This this
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: kind of surprised me when I looked into it, like
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: why Alaska would not want mule deer to become established.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: The main reason I thought would be CWD. It's actually
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: winter ticks is what they're worried about the most, because
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 4: winter ticks have devastated moose populations in New England and
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: the northern tier of the United United States Minnesota and
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: then into Canada as well.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: I had that completely wrong as well. In fact, I've
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: even said to people, yeah, that as you see more
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: and more and they made that rule, you can shoot
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: them whenever you see one. I've told people because they're
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: concerned about disease coming in, and they are. But what
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: I was reading from there, like you're saying, yeah, primary
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: concern is THEI like tipload.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: Yep, So they're worried about them carrying both parasites and
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 4: pathogens into the state. Some other concerns are mule deer
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: didn't involve in Alaska, so biologists don't really know what
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 4: impact they might have on an ecosystem like with brow
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: species and things like that, at how they might interact
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: with moose, caribou, the native, uh Native black tail deer.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 4: So it's a story to follow. We'll see what happens.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: I think it's not going to be the first. It's
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: not gonna be the last mule deer that hunters kill
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: in Alaska.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 5: What a white tail might be next. They are the
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 5: same fear over them walking in. I think it.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 4: I mean, it could happen, but I think, you know,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: the mule deer thing is something they're going to have
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 4: to deal with for sure.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: I I totally support what they're doing, Like I get it.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: It's it's like I think they're doing the right thing.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: Just a thought. I don't know.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: The non native is like if something's walking in, if
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: something's yeah, if something's walking in on its feet, not
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: to question the decision they made. I think it's the
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: right decision, but it's it's kind of like I wouldn't
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: say non native.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 4: Not at this point, it's natural. It would just be
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: like historically they weren't present.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: Historically, not present, but now I'd be like, well, they're
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: native now.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 4: Nobody dropped them off the native now.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: But I totally get why they're doing what they're doing,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: and that you could also argue that it is human caused,
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: if it's agriculture, road construction, whatever, that you'd be like,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: it is human cause it's not. It's not as weird,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: it's not as direct as if you put them in.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: A box and turn them loose.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you're not going to find a state that like
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 4: manages game resources like better than Alaska as far as
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: like providing food resources for their.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: Residents and things.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: And then like that's I think a big concern here.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: Is yeah, they have challenges.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: Nobody's perfect, but I am generally a big fan of
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: Alaska's approach to fish game.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 4: And it's tough for me. Like with mule deer, they're
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: like my favorite animal. They're they're struggling and a lot
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 4: of their range, so to see him kind of be
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: painted that's a bad guy here is tough, but it's
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: what Alaska has to do.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 5: Here was an article from quite a while ago from Alaska.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 5: It says they had reputable reports of white tails near
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 5: Hyder and Haines.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, that was wrong. Haines is one of their reputable reports.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 5: Reputable reports, they said they have not had one confirmed.
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so I was maybe wrong.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 5: This direct quote is they are basically without spitting distance
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 5: of the border, so probably.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: The same area there.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 5: The mule there are coming from roy church Well area
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: biologists for Juno.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: Oh. Okay, so that's mostly wrong, but unconfirmed. Unconfirmed.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 5: That was from twenty nineteen.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: It's unconfirmed that I was mostly wrong. Yeah, let's let's
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: make sure of that. Reputable reports still fall into the
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: category of unconfirmed.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 4: Sure you got h you got more mule deer stuff
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 4: for us?
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 3: Randall he do you want me to do it? Or
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: should we? Should we keep our powder dry? Man, It's
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: up to you, buddy, you've been sitting there. I don't know.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: Let's do it. Let's do it. Because I've fulfilled a
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: lifelong dream, well not a lifelong dream, maybe five years now.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 3: I've wanted to introduce my wife to Kevin Monteeth and
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: I finally did it this weekend. Wow, and please take
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: her over his house sometime. Well, Laramie is a good,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: good little drive. But we went down to the Wyoming Range.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: Kevin Monteeth is a biologist at the University of Wyoming
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: and a taxidermist and a wonderful human being and multiple
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: podcast guests, multiple podcast guests, brilliant guy. It's always just
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: like you walk away from many times bet with him
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: having learned something like substantive about something that you thought
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: you knew about and that you really care about. So, Kevin.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: One of the projects that's that falls into the umbrel
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: of Kevin's big operation, there is a collaring dear study
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: in the Wyoming Range of Montana, and Rebecca Rafferty is
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: running that program. She's a PhD student there, and so
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: they captured deer and collar them multiple times a year.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: In March, they captured some of these collar deer and
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: the dose they ultrasound and to check them for pregnancy.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, are they collaring them for that migration study or
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: just general.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: A bunch of different studies. They're looking at migration. I
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: mean the main thing that they're interested in is how
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: the animals use the landscape and the relationship between what's
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: interesting about this has been going on for ten years
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: and so they have like multi generational data of dose,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: their health, their offspring, the success of their offspring and
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: all that. And so one key moment in the annual
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: cycle of that study is when these dos in March,
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: when they check them for pregnancy. The ones that are pregnant,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: they fit with what they call VIT, which is evaginally
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: implanted transmitter kind of looks like a giant iud and
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: it has a thermometer in it, and when a pregnant
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: dough begins to give birth, it's like right, it's right
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 3: outside of the cervix. And when a pregnant dough begins
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: to give birth, it drops that transmitter, and as that
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 3: transmitter cools down, as it's no longer being warmed by
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 3: the internal temperature of her body, it starts giving off
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: a signal. And so these guys, Rebecca basically lives down there.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: Kevin kind of drops in and out because he has
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: all kinds of other stuff going on. But they're chasing
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: down birth sites as they happen within hours and going
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 3: and checking on the fawns, putting collars on the fawns.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: And so I've always wanted to get down there and
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: do this. We drove down on Friday, and we timed
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: it so that this is usually the peak of the
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: fawning season. It's been super early this year and they
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: don't really have a clear explanation of why. But the
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 3: hypothesis is that it has to do with a.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 5: Full moon during the run.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: Well, no, that was a joke. Yeah, I mean, well,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 3: the interesting thing is they know so when they when
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: they ulter sound them in March, they know when they
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: were fertilized based on the size of the eye that
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: they can measure in the ultrasounds. So like they know
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: when these when these deer were conceived, and then they
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: can draw that out and say they'll be born this date.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: But it's interesting though that the rut fell a couple
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: of weeks later than than normal.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but but it was a weird winner. Yeah. So,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: so what they're seeing and a lot of this I
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 3: might just be mistranslating from the scientists speak, but what
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: they're seeing is that these deer this year got to
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 3: their their summer ground super earlier, their fawning ground super early,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: and some of them are just giving birth when they
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: get there rather than waiting until their their fawns are
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: fully developed. So yeah, so they had this was supposed
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 3: to be the peak weekend and they had already collared
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: ninety one fawns, so they had less than ten fawns
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: to go. Like, they had really good rates of pregnancy,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: especially among younger does this year, but they're all the
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: fawns are just dropping pretty early and they are seeing
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: It's not like they're all underdeveloped, but they He was
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: saying that sort of as a percentage of the overall,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: there's probably more premature fawns this year. So we drove
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: down Friday and they said, we think we have one
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: for tomorrow morning, Phil, if you can pull up that
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: first map. So so the green dot there is where
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: the transmitter dropped.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: So we those are at nine thousand feet.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: The top of that is ten ten hundred feet. So
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: this deer. I knew we were in trouble because they
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: said this is this is a deer they call sheep
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: deer because every year she drops her fawns up in
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: the cliffs and before the head is she's trying to
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: get down the cliffs to get to the fawns. But
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: we hiked in and we sat that blue waypoint there.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: We kind of sat there waiting for another transmission. So
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: once the vit drops, they wait for collar day to
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: upload to see if she's hanging out around there or
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: if she moved, and kind of she she missed her
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: nine am data upload, just depending on how she could
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: link up with the satellite. So we sat around until
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 3: one and then all of a sudden we had this
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 3: waypoint way over there. If you look on the map,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 3: we were kind of sitting on top across this little
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: draw from where the VT dropped. And then we realized
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: we had to go over the top and drop down
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: this avalanche choot and then side hill across this really
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 3: nasty stuff. And like we we had a dot on
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: the map where she had been milling around at one o'clock,
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: and we went over there and sure enough, I mean,
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: this is like steep, brushy stuff. I fell a few times,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: it was. It was like very vertical. And we get
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 3: over to that spot and Phil, you can go to
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 3: the next slide there, so that that yellow dot is
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 3: where she had been milling around, and that red dot
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: is actually where the where the fawns were. Next next
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: photo these faunsh So so this was tough. So you
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: can see this is like the perfect deer bed. I
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: mean you if you walk like ten feet in any
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 3: direction of that, you're going to be hanging on to branches.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: It was just a little bench in this like you
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 3: could have laid a sleeping bag down and covered the
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: whole thing, but this this little bench on the side
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: of this face. One fawn was stillborn. And then this
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 3: guy was small, I think he was. He was right
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: around two kilos, so he's going to have a rough
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: a rough go like that was pretty disheartening after that
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 3: long day. But we you know, when they when they
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: get him, they take some sand, apples, blood hair for
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: genetic analysis and nutritional profiles. They measure them. They measure
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: like the size of the fawn. They measure the hoof
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: growth so they have a better sense of like how
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: long they've been on the ground. This one was definitely
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 3: on the ground for less than eight hours when we
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: walked up on it.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 4: And that does nowhere around like blowing at your een.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: We never saw her. We never saw her. We never
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: saw sheep dear, which is a good thing, because I
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: been rather upset with her because she just, like he
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: was saying that some of these does when they dropped
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: that transmitter, like a lot of them will stay there
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: and give birth. But she dropped her transmitter and then
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 3: just took off across this mountain side from like this
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 3: great little bench at the top to just this hell hole.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: So that was a long day. We got back after dark,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: hiked like three thousand feet and probably nine miles or
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 3: something like that to get to her, and then and
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: then the next day go to the next one. Phil Okay,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: So the next day we had another transmitter that got dropped,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: and this one was gonna be in a much more
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: As you can see, this is a great place to
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 3: give birth. But so this one we hiked up there
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 3: and we thought she was still around. So we actually
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: he pulled out the telemetry wand you know, to identify
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 3: where the dough actually was. It was kind of in
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 3: this this big curve in a closed road, and so
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: we circled the road around and eventually we saw her.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 3: She stood up with her collar on, kind of right
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: where Sydney's sitting there, and she bounded off about fifty yards.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 3: We walked down and then Kevin and I were looking
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: for the fawn, and we walked right through that little
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 3: gap that's lit up in the trees and Sydney Sidney's
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 3: like you got. We walked within two feet of this thing.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: It's right at her feet there, Phil. If you go
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: to the next picture, that's so that's actually another one.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: That's we had to walk around and find the second one.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: This was about like twenty yards away, but the dough
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 3: stayed close. We could still hear her circling around us
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: and all that. So next picture, Phil, there's the first
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: fawn we found, just tucked in the tucked in the brush.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: And when you walk up on them, they they're like
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: main defense is I forget the name something breaking cardia,
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: which means like when they when you walk up on them,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: their heart rate drops like sixty percent, and they they
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: don't even blink their eyes. They're almost like in this
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: state of suspended animation. And so we got these two.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: They're nice and healthy. They're they're like almost twice as
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 3: heavy as that other one.
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 4: What do they do when you're handling them?
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: Do they nothing? Nothing? What's interesting is he said that
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: these and this is what we observed. The ones that
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 3: are like little and maybe not gonna make it. Those
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: ones will move a leg here and there, but the big,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 3: healthy ones just do nothing. See, you know, we picked
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: them up, moved them to a safe spot to measure
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: them and everything like that, and then Phil, if you
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: go to the next one, Yeah, there's the two fawns
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: and we're fitting them with collars there. So they'll fit
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 3: these with collars. Then they'll recapture them, put different collars
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: on them, and uh, next one.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 5: Those things just have like eternal handling at some point
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 5: if they're always getting captured. Yeah, collared captured.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: That's that's the interesting thing is you know, like when
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: you have a piece of information but you shouldn't tell
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: people the truth.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well I have one of those.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: They tell you that, oh, don't touch it because the
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: mom will never come back.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: They tell you that because you shouldn't be touching it, right,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: But it's not true. No, yeah, we these they do
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: all this, yeah, and put a collar on it, and
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 2: the mom comes right back and we.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: So before touching, you know, you pick up dirt and
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: you rub it all over your hands. You grab grass,
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: you rub it all over your hands to try to
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: mask your scent. Oh, for sure, she was watching us.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: She was watching us. The other really crazy thing is
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 3: that you think where I mean, and this is all
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: stuff that you know sort of theoretically, but you think like, oh, yeah,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: of course, deer clean up the birth site, like you've
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: heard about them eating the afterbirth and all that stuff,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: Like that earlier photo where that little deer is just
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 3: laying in that bed, things bone dry. She's consumed all
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 3: of the after birth. There's no fluids anywhere, there's no
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 3: hair anywhere.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: I was wondering about why they look so clean. It
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: don't look all slimy. She cleans them totally to avoid scent.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: And so you walk up on these things and it's
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: like just the hand of God drop them on the
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: side of the mountain. There's no like evidence of birth,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: so I don't know if there's more. Yeah, this is
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: measuring the measuring the hoofs and then is there anything else?
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: Phil Yeah, I mean just just unbelievable, like they're and
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: like the first day was a little challenging because there's
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: the stillborn and the one that was pretty like but
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: super cool, and just the amount of information that they
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: have about these animals and and how mom behaves around them,
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: how they rear them up. You know, like he has
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 2: data on the grandmothers and great grandmothers of these animals
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: and where they give birth and all that stuff.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 3: But it's kind of funny they have. They have such
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 3: an intimate knowledge of these deer that they can tell
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: you all about how they use this, how they use that.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: Cheap deer obviously has a reputation for just giving birth
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 3: and and uh, just really just a pretty incredible weekend.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: If you love deer like it was. You walk in
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: there and at first, there's this part in the back
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: of your mind it's like I shouldn't be here, like
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: I'm intruding, and like it is sensitive stuff, right, like
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: you you don't want people to go out and handle
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: these things, like you should never go out and handle
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 3: these fawns. You should let them alone. But once you
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 3: get to measuring them and thinking about what all this means,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 3: it it was just a really powerful experience. So I
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 3: don't know if I have another photo I feel last.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: But the other disheartening thing is we uh to get
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 3: to those deer. We hiked up this closed OHB route
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: and we when we put that second one back, we
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: started walking around to see if we could find the
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 3: transmitter at the birth site, which is about one hundred
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 3: yards away, and that little fawn got up and started
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 3: walking and we said, all right, we're just going to
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 3: back out. We don't want to pressure him or anything.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: So we turned around and walked out, and we got
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: like two hundred yards down the trail and I hear
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: something and there's five side by sides playing loud music,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: drinking beers like Walleye Fishermen. Yeah, and we you know,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 3: and is very clearly close. So we go back down
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: to the truck and then they come bombing back down.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: There's the big gate that says no OHV behind this line.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: They they drive over the vegetation to get around the gate,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: and four of them peel off, and the one guy
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 3: stops right in the road, like you could see a
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: half mile road in either direction. He stops right in
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: the road, right next to us, as close as he
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: could get to us without pulling off the road over
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: to our vehicles. Just comes out, lights a cigarette, takes
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: a piss right in front of us, cranks his music up,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 3: and then throws gravel and fuck takes off down the road.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: And I just thought, yeah, like it was just the
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: most blatant like disrespect and violation A photo of them.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: It was. It was too late at that point, but
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: it was just like one of these things is like
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: you you realize the rules exist for a reason, because
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: like I felt like we were kind of you know,
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 3: we were in her space, right and then hear these
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: guys are just wrecking shit. So that was kind of
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: a sour note at the end of it. But man,
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 3: very cool stuff. Big thanks to Kevin and Rebecca.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to listen to a podcast, go listen
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: to the episodes when Oh man, Kevin Monte's been on
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: the show.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he has got some more stuff that I talked
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: to him this weekend about that would be a good episode. Yeah,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: podcast so good. We'll curl your hair.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 5: My observation on those photos is they don't grow into
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 5: their ears ever, Like they're just born with giant and
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 5: then they just have giants silly years in their whole life.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 3: Everybody, thanks tuning in listening.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: Man, We're gonna bump a couple of these stories till
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: next week's episode and we'll have some fresh He's in
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: there as well.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: Thanks and talk to you soon.