Latest / CEOs and ABCs / Karen Robinovitz (SlooMoo Institute, & Digital Brand Architects) Overcoming grief, loss and disappear and creating businesses built for joy #031

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Karen Robinovitz (SlooMoo Institute, & Digital Brand Architects) Overcoming grief, loss and disappear and creating businesses built for joy #031 · CEOs and ABCs

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Year and a half went by that I didn't function, that I barely left my house except to get help. My friend came by my house with her 10 year old. Her daughter had slime. I sat down with my friend's daughter on the floor to see her slime. Melissa is all, I have to go. And I'm like, why? You just got here. And she was like, we've been on the floor with my daughter for four hours. I just had four hours of pure joy. I was playing, I was smiling. I forgot about all of this load that I had in my heart and in my soul. So I was like, we need to bring this to people. This was the way that I brought myself back and found healing.
• 0:36
  Speaker B: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting wins and fails and everything in between. I'm your host, Kevin Rice. Here's today's episode. Welcome back to CEOs and ABCs. My guest today is Karen Robinowitz. Karen is the co founder and co CEO of the Slumu Institute, an immersive museum and sensory world built around around hands on play and the science of joy. Before that, she founded Digital Brand Architects, one of the earliest talent agencies for influencers. What makes Karen's story so compelling is not just where she ended up, it's the journey she took to get there. She talks about her marriage collapsing, losing her husband suddenly and then losing her 14 year old cousin in the Parkland shooting and how the grief that followed left her barely functional for over a year. The way back began on the living room floor with her friend's daughter playing with slime. And now alongside scaling a brand and building an entire world of ip, she's also making the loudest possible case that play is not just for kids, it's medicine for everyone. This is a conversation about grief, reinvention, the cost of losing your ability to just play and what happens when you build a business around the thing that saved your life. Karen, thank you so much for being here today.
• 1:54
  Speaker A: Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
• 1:56
  Speaker B: I know. I'm so excited to chat with you. I had such a fantastic time bringing my two boys down to the LA location last September. And I'm just excited to chat with you about how you've built this organization and your mission and you've kind of lived through several identities, right? And now you're building this incredible brand, the SLU Moo Institute, which is really from my experience, rooted in joy and like Sensory healing. So for our listeners who maybe haven't been exposed to what your organization, could you share a little bit about kind of your vision and your mission for the company?
• 2:31
  Speaker A: Sure. So Slumu Institute has a very simple mission. Deliver joy. We are a slime infused world based on hands on play. So a lot of people call us the Slime Museum. We're definitely a lot more than just slime. We are a really immersive and interactive universe that invites you to embrace your silly and literally physically dig into handmade slime. Other hashtag satisfying compounds. Indulge in ASMR and all things that are really soothing for the soul, but have this incredibly playful, colorful, almost, you know, silly, joyful, just kind of vernier. But beneath the vernier, there's a lot more depth to it.
• 3:30
  Speaker B: I really enjoyed it. One of my favorite parts of it was just getting slimed. I think it brought out my inner childhood watching Nickelodeon when I was a kid. I mean, I just have gallons of slime dumped on me and my kids had a blast watching me do that. So we'll talk more about the Slumu Institute, but I want to kind of go back because your path there really wasn't linear. Right. I mentioned you started as a journalist and then you co founded, I think maybe the first or one of the first influencer agencies and digital brand architects. So what inspired that transition from traditional media and journalism into launching an agency for creators?
• 4:11
  Speaker A: So my path is not linear and yet it all really makes sense based on the waves of my life and, and who I am at my core. So at my core, I'm a storyteller, I'm a content creator. Given that I started as a journalist, right. Journalism is all about telling. Telling stories. And I did a lot in fashion, entertainment, lifestyle. So I was in this really glossy world and really interested in finding things that inspired me and sharing them with other people. So I began my career in the mid-90s at Womenswear Daily. It was a print magazine. It was really amazing to be trained at a daily newspaper because that really prepped me for the pace that we're all living in right now. Right. Everything is fast, immediate swipe culture, two seconds of get somebody's attention. And that's what being at a newspaper was in the 90s. When I left women's wear, I was freelance for the next seven years and I used to write for the New York Times, Harper's Bazaar, Elle Marie Claire, and again, as a freelance person, you have to just constantly be on top of what's happening. What's opening? What is the news? How do you get to the story first? So I am a quickly moving person at my core. And right when the Internet began to boom, so late 90s, I. I was obsessed. And what I saw in the late 90s was what I call the early phases of social media. I started to see little message forums blossom. And I would see people in their message forums talk about a product, and then I would see all these other people comment. Oh, I tried it. I didn't like it. Somebody else would jump back in, try it again. It took me a while to like it. The person would write back, I TR it again. Now I really like it. I'm converted. And I was watching this and thinking, purchase decisions are being impacted by people talking to other people. Word of mouth marketing. I remember there was a. There was a website that was starting in China, and they were bringing all these cool American designers to the Chinese market. The person asked me, tell her, like, I work with the designers. And I said, well, we should actually tell stories. We should go like, at that time, Helmut Lang was in its original heyday, and Helmut Lange as a designer was known for these sweaters or shirts that had like a slit in the elbow. And I was like, we should tell the story of the clothes through a DJ, because DJs are always kind of scratching with their elbow in the air when they're on a vinyl. And I was like, then you see the slit. And it should be playlists and music and clothes. And ultimately that's editorial, because I had an editorial mindset as from the earliest phase of my career, but I was bringing it to online shopping. And so I really feel like I was a believer and a proponent of content, storytelling, commerce, all of these things together. And I had written a book, came out in, I think it was 2000. It was 2002 and when we were published by an imprint of Random House, and when they said, here is your marketing plan, and I saw one line on the piece of paper, I was like, wait, I don't. This is an initiative. This isn't a strategy. And they were like, well, if you want to do more, you can do more. So the book I had written was called how to Become Famous in Two Weeks or Less. And it was based on a story that I promise all of this has will tie up in a bow. Mary Claire had assigned my friend Melissa Dela Cruz, who is now globally New York Times bestselling author in the YA space. They had assigned us a story, and they said, just get famous in two Weeks. And this was the beginning of reality television. It was the beginning of like the dot com NESS of the world. When we got assigned the story, it was people becoming famous for being famous. That was the test of what we're on now. And we wrote this really ironically irreverent, funny story about how you become famous. And when really read it, at its core, it's a marketing book. It's like, what is your brand? Think of yourself like a box of cereal. You know what you're getting in every single bite. You know it from the package. That's who you have to be. And when the book came out and I. I wound up realizing that I was going to do the marketing. I put together this huge marketing plan. And Brandt had a lot of money back then, so I could roll into. I remember I roll. I did roll into Mac cosmetics. And I was like, instead of signing my books, I'm going to kiss them all with Viva Glam lipstick and it'll be the famous quotes. And they were like, here's $200,000 for your book tour. Just suddenly we were doing this incredible book tour. And you know, I realized a, at that time, I'm actually a marketer and B, what I really thought was interesting at that time, and this is now going to 2002. I used the earliest of the social media landscape. There were really niche communities. I was like, how do I get in that community and tell my book? And when I did book events, I found that the people coming out to the events and buying the book were people that I met through the online world. And some of these people I am still in touch with today. I came back from this book tour really enlightened. And I said, everything is moving to digital. Everything. All of our conversations are going to happen here. Everything about a brand is going to be marketed here. I want to remake myself into a digital marketer. And I knocked on the door of all the brands that I knew from my background at first. They all literally were like, get out of my office. We don't want to do anything online. And I was like, you're going to want to do everything online. And your online store should actually be your number one door. I promise you that eventually when you do these things online, it will be more powerful than the billboard. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with billboards. I think at home is amazing and there's so many creative ways to do it. But I just. All this moving and I was like, I started to notice also the early creators and this Is, you know, Instagram didn't exist. Pinterest didn't exist.
• 10:46
  Speaker B: Like, basically right when Facebook was starting.
• 10:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, they weren't even available if you didn't have a Edu address.
• 10:55
  Speaker B: Right. I got it in 2004.
• 10:57
  Speaker A: Right, right. So as I saw. Oh, Facebook opened up and you could now be on it if you don't have a.edu address and people were moving there. I would walk into my brands and like, your creative director needs a page here. Your creative director needs a public way of showcasing all their inspirations. Everyone wants to know what's on their mood board. Then I started to see what we now just label influencer. But influencer marketing has been happening since the dawn of time. Would be a new medical device, and they would find a local doctor to be the person who's the face of it. That's influencer marketing. So it's always.
• 11:32
  Speaker B: We just have. Now we just have more distribution.
• 11:35
  Speaker A: Exactly. It was with experts. And what I was seeing was suddenly this group of people making content to their own audience. And I was then going to brands and saying, this person is the location scout, the talent scout, the model, the stylist, the copywriter, the producer, the photographer, the editor, the publisher, the distribution, all in one. This is where everything is moving. And to me, this was the kind of evolution of television, killed the radio star. But this is the new version of television. And it was online again. In the beginning, everyone was like, no way. We're not touching. This is not a community we want to touch. And I would just champion these young people and bring them into brands and say, put them in your ad campaign. Let them create a direct your ad campaign. Let them get invol. And one of the first brands that opened their door to me was Coach. And the things that we did with Coach went on to win awards. And they were really the first brand putting influencers in their campaigns, letting them design handbags, doing things that nobody else was doing. And that suddenly Tiffany was calling, and I was like, where's our breakfast at Tiffany? For this community who doesn't normally get that treatment from you? And I remember watching the early, early days of the traditional world of editors or talent getting really miffed by seeing this new community come in and, like, take their seat at the table. And a lot of this community started asking me, I'm getting this message from a brand. What do you think I should say? And I was like, what do you think you should say? And they would tell me, I would be like, you cannot say that. Somebody needs to Say this for you. It's like at the highest levels of every industry, somebody has a manager or an agent, whether you're an actor, producer, director, writer, a hairstylist, a makeup artist, an athlete, right? They all have teams around them. And I was like, I speak your language. In the earliest of days of my career, at my core was a content creator. I just worked for magazines and I understand brand now that I've been working with brands. And I said, I can manage you. I know how to bring you into a brand. I know how to turn you into. You want, who do you want to be? And then what's the modern day version of all of the icons who are, who, who created the paths, like the Martha Stewart's, the Dion von Furstenbergs, the, you know, fill in the blanks and Michael Jordan, et cetera. I was like, you can, you can actually be anything and you have an audience that will follow you wherever you go. And that's how I started dba. And when I first started it, I remember just begging to get somebody $5,000. And then I remember like seeing people that I manage made $10 million a year. And that happened within five or six years. So it moved really fast. I would not say that I invented it, I would just say that I
• 14:46
  Speaker B: was there early or in the very early days. Sure.
• 14:50
  Speaker A: The earliest days I was there, I saw it. In 2005, I had a project that I was working on and I did it with hsn and I brought people to HSN with me to live, tweet and to be the bottle on, on the camera tweeting about it to their audience as it was happening. And like, I remember going through massive amounts of legal to be like, can this logo be on screen? And then I had like a user party that we skyped into, which is really like early days of zoom if you think about it. And so I, I was always thinking this way. And the business grew really quickly. We worked with every brand from Apple to Volvo. I mean, it was incredible. And our clients were doing case studies with Instagram and they were the first people, like beta testing new products. And it was amazing to be at that forefront.
• 15:49
  Speaker B: This is great. It brings to mind Wayne Gretzky quote of like knowing where the puck is going. And that was something that at my agency, So I spent 13 years building my agency before I sold it. We always kind of were like two or three years ahead of the curve. So in like 2009, we were a mobile agency. And then like 2014, we evolved past that. When Everybody else, like all the bigger agencies, were now positioning around mobile. We started positioning around customer experience and then we shifted and we're a growth agency, so we were always a couple years ahead of the bigger firms and where the puck was going. Hi, Kevin here. If you're enjoying this conversation and you know someone else who's working to grow in their career while staying present at home, I'd really love it if you could share this episode with them. It's one of the best ways you can help us and help more leaders build their careers in a way that they're proud of without missing the moments that matter most. What I'm really curious about, did you have an idea of what you wanted your future to be like, or were you just kind of making it up as you go? What version of success were you chasing?
• 16:52
  Speaker A: I think what I looked at at that time was, you know, there was a traditional model of agents and managers, and we wanted to be managers because managers can produce television, film, et cetera. Agents cannot. And we were like, managers are really big picture architecting a full trajectory. And that was what was exciting to us, is brand strategy and building it and just looking at the person as the brand. And now look at the. The world of Hailey Bieber and Alex Earl. Like, they're all just slaying it. And this came out of them understanding their audience and how to tell a story, how to package it and read a product and bring it to market. And so we actually saw that future. And at that time, like, my model in my head was Brustein, right? They were the gold standard for management. And I actually even remember in my earliest days of starting the agency, I called all the traditional agents and I was like, we should partner. Because every major talent has a manager and an agent. We're their manager. You can. We can partner. And they were like, no way. And I just remember you years later, we proved a business model and then they all started getting in the space. And I actually sat back then with the then CEO Abrilstein, and we were saying, they're coming for us. Like they're now we're competing for the same talent. And he literally said, this battle will be won in the streets. And I was like, well, good thing I am scrappy and dirty because I am not somebody who at any level of my career, wherever I am, I'm not a pointer to get this done. I do. I know how to delegate. And I. And I have teams who do other things, but I will always do the work as well. So I am built that way, just at my core. And so when he said, this battle will be won on the streets, I was like, all right, I'm not going to be worried about other people coming for us because we were carving out a new niche. But now if you look at that niche, they're massive. So we always knew it would be massive. Kind of early in the trajectory of dba, we started a product licensing division to help build brands for people. Like, we were already thinking of, how can we be as vertical as possible so we can actually manage and grow our talent? And while all this is happening. And my life from the outside looked amazingly successful and my life on the inside was actually crumbling at that time I was married. I was going through a very, very tumultuous time in my marriage. And I was dealing with a husband who had a lot of depression. And this is going to get very personal. He really wasn't getting the help he needed. And I. I think after you're with somebody and you love somebody and you beg them to get help and they don't get the help, you just sort of. I buried myself in my work and that was how I helped.
• 20:22
  Speaker B: I did the same thing. And this is like something I'm always really interested in. People who look and are incredibly successful from the outside. At the height of my career, when my company was doubling year over year, I filed for divorce. My ex wife was struggling with alcoholism. She was in and out of rehab for three years. I tried to make things work. I tried to support her as she was getting help. But eventually it got to the point where it just wasn't safe anymore for my kids. And in the beginning of 2020, I filed for divorce. I became a single father of a three and a half year old and a three week old. And everybody has what's going on in the inside. And as I talk to a lot of really successful leaders, yeah, it's not always as glamorous behind the scenes. And so I appreciate you sharing that. What eventually happened? Did you stay together? Did you get divorced?
• 21:15
  Speaker A: He passed away.
• 21:16
  Speaker B: I'm sorry to hear that.
• 21:17
  Speaker A: Thank you. My cry, I had like a really massive nervous breakdown. A breakdown that I don't want to kill your audience with, like despair, but I would just say despair. I really, you know, nobody's equipped to handle loss. Nobody's equipped. I never imagined that could happen. And I'll never know if it was accidental or not. It was horrible. And I also, I hated myself for maybe not realizing things were as bad as they were, for burying myself at work. I wound up leaving DVA and literally didn't function at all. I mean, I was getting help. I was getting all the help one human could get. And then my 14 year old cousin was murdered in the Parkland school shooting. And I just lost it like a level of pain that I was borderline suicidal because I was like, why are we here? Yeah, life is horrible. And I would tell you that, I tell you honestly that a year and a half went by that I didn't function, that I barely left my house except to get help. I couldn't work. I could. I could barely do anything. I did little things, but I could barely do anything. And this is where.
• 23:07
  Speaker B: So that was kind of your coping mechanism was to just. It was just kind of paralysis like you.
• 23:12
  Speaker A: Paralysis.
• 23:13
  Speaker B: Couldn't. Yeah, disassociation, disassociation.
• 23:18
  Speaker A: I mean, I was. When I tell you I had, obviously I had a therapist, I was in support group, I had a grief counselor, I went to see a shaman, I went to a psychiatrist and went on antidepressants. I re. I started to get a lot of bodywork and acupuncture. And I remember the first time I walked into acupuncture and the woman like put her hands on my body and goes, were you in a car accident? And I was basically like, yeah, I actually, I was in an emotional car accident. Um, one day my friend Melissa came by my house with her then 10 year old. Her daughter had slime. And I was curious because I knew there was like a subculture and a zeitgeist around slime. I knew it from my days of dba. I remember watching a little bit of a slime community emerge and telling some of the managers that in my company that we should look at some of these slime influencers and how I see the them as Tavaro's DIY creators and how they could, you know, be leaders in education and STEM and parenting and. And people looked at me like I had three heads. And I sat down with my friend's daughter on the floor to see her slime. And then suddenly Melissa's all, I have to go. And I'm like, why? You just got here. And she was like, I don't know what you're talking about. You've been on the floor with my daughter for four hours. And then I was like, wait, four hours. And then it just. I put this puzzle together that I just had four hours of pure joy. I was playing, I was smiling, I was in my version of me as a 7 year old. I forgot in those 4 hours about all of this load that I had in my heart and in my soul. And I was like, oh, my God, can I keep this? And where do I get more? So she. She gave me a list of what she said were the best slimers, and they were all kids who had Etsy shops. And I became what I refer to as an adult slimer. I started to buy literally, like, hundreds and hundreds of slimes.
• 25:35
  Speaker B: I was right, because it's not all the same. There's different textures.
• 25:38
  Speaker A: And I was learning about the fact that there was, like, yeah, 15 different textures. But you can mix and match them. And, you know, you could have a snow fizz and a butter slime. Then you mix it together, and it's a. It's a snow butter. Or just. They're thick and glossy. There's jelly. You can mix them together, and you can mix cloud and clear, and it becomes what's known as a float slime. Like, I was learning about all these things, and I was obsessed. And I found that while I played with slime, I would escape. And it was such an incredibly healthy escape. And little by little, and wasn't even, like, putting it together, but I was leaving my house more, I started to reach out to say, like, do you want to go have dinner? I would literally bring slime with me. It was, like, my emotional support, and I would share my slime with my friends. I really. I have a very close friend in particular, was going through as hard of a time as I was at the same period, and she had just gone through equal levels of trauma, and she was really reeling. And I called her and said, I know this sounds crazy, but I have to bring you some slime. And she was like, oh, okay, bring me some slime. So I came to her house with slime, and we were playing, and we were just immediately like, oh, my God. Imagine. She and I are really bonded over our shared passion for contemporary art. We're both on the board of advisors at the Brooklyn Museum. We've spent a lot of our friendship going to art performances, galleries, opening fairs, artist studios. And I was like, what if caused it a slime? What if? You know, we're making all what if. You know, Nicholeen Thomas did a slime. We're making up all these slime collaborations with artists, and we were in this, like, really fun, creative mode. And then I said, oh, my God, look at your daughters. So she has two daughters. At the time, they were 6. 6 and 11. And her oldest has a rare genetic syndrome called Angelman Syndrome. So a beautiful symptom of Angelman syndrome is happiness. Her daughter is a ray of sunshine. She loves dancing and laughing. She smiles a lot. But she has enormous limitations and she's non verbal and she can't do anything on her own. So she doesn't feed herself, she doesn't go to the bathroom on her own, she doesn't get dressed on her own. She needs around the clock care. And so Sarah's like, look at your daughters. And Sarah just started bawling and she said, I've never seen my two daughters equal. As they were enjoying something, a toy, anything. They've never played with the same thing before. And I just was like, we have to bring this to people. This is not just a kid's toy. Immediately, this connected for us that this is a conduit of equality, connection, communication. Exactly. So I was like, we need to bring this to people. And Sarah just didn't even hesitate. She goes, I'll get the real estate and do construction. With a large part of her background in hospitality from the hospitality world and business management, I was like, I'll do the marketing. And we opened Slumo Institute in New York City. 12,000 square feet, one year later. And that is the beginning of Slumu. And that's why, I mean, it feels like, what are all these weird pieces of your career? But when you hear that story, it makes so much sense.
• 29:08
  Speaker B: In hindsight, right? Like in hindsight you can see how all the pieces lined up. But at the time, you know, I'm sure you could have never predicted where you were going to be today.
• 29:18
  Speaker A: Told me another time, if you told my inner 5 year old you would be working in slime, I would have been like, hell yeah. Because I grew up with slime in 1976. It was my favorite thing as a child. I have very, very clear and distinct memories of all the slimes that came in a garbage pail, that have eyeballs and worms and the fights of my mother and in my hair. Like, I just, I have such a memory of it. So this actually feels like I'm now doing the most authentic thing for who I am as a person. This is how I got myself back. We give back to mental health. So I feel like we have a purpose. We hire adults with autism and who are neurodiverse, not solely, but it is a mission as part of our brand is to have that equity and know that people who process or see the world differently have just as much value and that mental health is real and we need to care for It. And so this was the way that I brought myself back and found healing.
• 30:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I've heard you say, like, in. In a way, it really saved your life.
• 30:29
  Speaker A: It saved my life.
• 30:29
  Speaker B: That's incredible.
• 30:30
  Speaker A: No levity. 100% to save my life. I don't know. And can. What I would have done without it, and I cannot imagine. I cannot imagine.
• 30:40
  Speaker B: Yeah. I think one of the, like, maybe boldest or most interesting things is that you're not just selling a product here. You're really making a case for play itself and for somebody like me, who. I don't know if it was societal or just growing up or my career, but for whatever reason, that ability to access play really left me as I grew up. But I experienced it when I went there with my kids. Just the environment facilitated it. When I first got there, I was like, oh, God, they're going to get it all in their hair. How am I going to get this out? Like. Like that adult part of me was very present. Yeah, yeah. And then when I just had slime dumped on me, it just totally went away.
• 31:21
  Speaker A: You were like, get it in my hair?
• 31:23
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 31:25
  Speaker A: Also, it comes out with white vinegar and water. For all the adults out there who don't know how to get slime out, white vinegar and water.
• 31:31
  Speaker B: Okay. I think I still have some of my truck car seats at this point, like, stuck in the cracks. But, yeah, maybe you've thought about this more than I have because, like, I. I wonder, what is it about us adults that we, like, lose access to? And when we lose that access, what does it cost us? What are we missing out on?
• 31:50
  Speaker A: I mean, I think it costs us a large part of our souls and our large. And a large part of our ability to have and experience joy. It's really easy to lose it. Right. We get caught up with responsibility, bills, family balance, career, all the little problems that happen every day. You're now taking care of. You're taking care of other humans who rely on you to live. And it's easy to forget to take care of yourself. And, you know, if you're on an airplane and that airplane is going to have trouble and that mask comes down, they say, put the oxygen mask on you before you help somebody else, because you have to put it on you first. It's just like exercise. You don't exercise, you lose your muscle. We lose our muscle for play. We think we're too old for it. We think it's something kids do. And it is definitely a preconceived notion about slimu is that we're a kids place. We are, we are very. You know, 95% of our of our guests are families, but parents are always like, well, I'm just supervising. And I'm like, you don't realize that we actually built this for you too. And we specifically designed it so that it doesn't look like a kid's place. That it's elevated and glossy and Chicago and dynamic and more artful and like a gallery than it is a playground. And we did that so purposefully because we wanted this to be a world for adults to be like, oh, this is for me too. And they do always, 99% of the time they leave and say, I needed this as much as my kids did, maybe more. And one of the best things I ever heard someone say, and you definitely got this based on what you said. When we first started talking, somebody said to me once, I feel like my kids got to meet me when I was their age and they had never seen that vibe in me. And there's so much science around play. And the fact that when you play, when you play with your hands, you're creating new neural pathways, you're igniting your imagination, you're actually going to be calm later. You're creating connection not just with others, but, but with yourself. I mean it actually does something biological to us and chemical.
• 34:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, I, I experienced that with just nervous system relaxing, settling in, being present. Right. You got slime on your hands, you're not pulling your phone out. It was just such a great vehicle, I guess for me, like a lot of it was identity around achievement and productivity. And so for the longest period of time I really struggled doing anything that didn't feel product. I started working with a personal development coach of source. He's kind of semi therapist, kind of Tony Robbins ish. And he was like, what do you do for fun? I was like, oh well, I go rock climbing, I go surfing, I like to travel all around the world and all these things. He's like, dude, Kevin, those are peak moments, right? What do you do for fun on a day to day basis? It's like, I don't know, I couldn't tell you a single thing. And he's like, okay, well like a list of things that you used to do for fun as a 10 year old and bring them back to me. So I was like, oh man, it's been so long. I used to play magic the gathering cards. I did used to play sports, came back with a list, used to read fiction, fantasy novels. He's like, all right. Your homework is to, like, do these things again and find that inner child who used to, like, have imagination and creativity and play just for the sake of playing. And that was really hard for me to do because it didn't feel productive until I started reconnecting with that younger version of myself and being able to bring it out. And now it's accessible for my kids again. And I think it's just this, like, really special thing to be able to evolve back into your younger self.
• 35:49
  Speaker A: And by the way, I'm going to say that is being productive because what you're doing is giving yourself new neural pathways. You know, you're igniting and lighting up your imagination. You're kicking off your endorphins and your dopamine, and you're really reconnecting to yourself. That is actually the definition of productivity. And it will make you more productive in other things.
• 36:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 36:14
  Speaker A: And that is honestly what I realize my mission is. When you're a kid, you, I don't know if you ever attempted to build a flying machine for a time machine. Right. One of two things that all kids have tried. And then there becomes an age where you're like, I can't do that anymore. I can't do that. Kids are dreamers and we have to dream. And when I have these huge dreams and I always have a little bit of an argument with my inner voice, because sometimes that inner voice is like, no, that can't happen or that won't happen. And I literally say to myself, okay, thank you for sharing. You made your opinion heard. Bye. And like, I should have to actually shut that voice down because that's the voice that allows you to achieve.
• 37:00
  Speaker B: Yeah, you're doing some parts work there.
• 37:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, so I do that. I do all the parts. I'm a believer in all of that. Like, what part of me that's like an older part of me or that's a part of me that saw some other failures and is protecting myself? I'm not protecting myself. I'm doing the opposite.
• 37:17
  Speaker B: Right. And you had to convince yourself in some ways. But I'm curious, what was the hardest part about convincing other people that a business focused on sensory joy and slime and play could actually be substantial and scalable? Did you have to convince other people? Did you have to take funding or did you self fund? Was there skepticism when you were getting started?
• 37:37
  Speaker A: Oh, please. Everybody said, you're effing crazy. And I was like, you also said I was crazy when I wanted to start the talent management agency. And also, you Said I was crazy when I worked at Women's World Daily and I said I'm going to go freelance and you said it was crazy. When I said I want to write a book, you all said everything I did was crazy and I did it and so I'm going to do it. Like when someone says you're crazy, I, that's, that's almost my challenge. So we launched my business partner and I did put in fund some funding and we also raised money from angel investor who is an incredible, incredible entrepreneur named Toni Ko. Toni Ko is represents the American dream. She came here from Korea when she was 12. She didn't speak any English. She, when she was 25, she started the brand NYX Cosmetics. NYX. We sold it to Lore L less than or about 20 years later and you know, was on the COVID of Forbes Richest self made women. So she did it. And I remember watching NYX and thinking to myself, nyx really, really hit their stride at not that kind of in, in conjunction with DBA hitting its stride. And what I noticed about NYX was who they worked with from an influencer perspective and they were really tapping into a community that wasn't recognized yet. Toni Ko saw it really early and built her whole brand around that community who is now also on a forefront of culture and the content movement and influencers, et cetera. So what I saw in her was somebody who thought differently and I reached out to her and she luckily took my call and we had happened to have dinner when I happened to be in la. And there's a little more to the story than this, but I made her sign an NDA. She was like, I don't even know you and you're sticking an NDA in front of me. But I told her what we were doing and she was like, I am really fascinated by this. Can I see your P and L and your projections and your Performa? And went to her house the next day and she was like, I, I don't know why, but everything in my gut is telling me to invest and to do this with you. And she became our first investor and we've gone on and done other rounds and now we don't have as hard of a time because we're proven and we're profitable and we're a real business and we have seven locations and we're soon to be nine and there's more coming and we're developing our ip like there's, there's a real brand.
• 40:19
  Speaker B: Absolutely. Like multiple cities, you have products that you sell. I love you know, you're now in, like, storytelling because you launched a graphic novel. And I totally want to hear about the graphic novel. Where did that come from? And how does that tie into the overall vision and mission for the company?
• 40:34
  Speaker A: So when we came up with our name, it's a really cute story there. First of all, we didn't. We couldn't think of a name. And we knew we did not want the word slime in our name because we also knew we would always evolve and have things in our experience that weren't just based on slime. And one day we were kind of just looking at the things that were bubbling up all over social media. And there was this thing that went viral and people were saying, replace the vowels of your name with oo, and that's your slang name. So you're Kuhrun, Rusu, Ankuru. I'm not even going to do my last name. And we said, if you do that with slime, the name is Slumu. And Sarah and I were like, that is such a cute word. It's probably trademarkable, most importantly. And also we were like, slumu could be a character. Pokemon Smurf. So immediately when we came up with Slumu and we were institute because we could have a lot of STEM and science, and it's like, you learn while you're playing. We were literally like, this is world building. This is not just IRL experience. We immediately worked on developing the character. And then we were as we were world building, we were like, okay, so what is this character about? Like, what? How does this character move? What does this character do? We were like, does Slumu have legs? We were like, slimu can shake out and make legs because Flumu is made of slime. Like, we just came up with this whole thing. And during the pandemic, because we had only been open for four and a half months, during the pandemic was actually a great moment to pause and say, how do we bring these things to life? And I just. The person who wrote the book with us is my friend Melissa, who I shared earlier. I wrote a book with back in the day, who came to my house with her daughter. And her daughter is the one who introduced me to slime. Melissa and her husband Mike have always collaborated and written books together. She was behind the Descendants for Disney.
• 42:41
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 42:41
  Speaker A: Yeah. She's written 90 books. She's had over 22 number one New York Times bestsellers. She's a world class story writer, storyteller, IP creator. And I was sitting with Melissa. We Want to tell the story now we're ready to bring this to life. It did take us two and a half to three years to finalize a story, to find the illustrators, to get the book together. And so the book just came out. It's a really. It's the origin of the character, the fictional origin. There's a darkness to light bit to it that really mimics the personal story of Sarah and me. And it's laced with social, emotional learning, you know, lessons in resilience. It's about making friends and connecting and embracing the very thing that makes you you. So we see it as a series. We will go out and do at some point another either fundraise or JV or partner with somebody to bring the animation piece and the rest of it to life. That's. That's our next step. These things take time. I'm really impatient, so it's hard for me because I want to do it yesterday.
• 43:50
  Speaker B: I resonate with that. I just spent six months writing a book, and now I real. I learned that I have to write a proposal and get a agent and a publisher. And then from then, even if I get a publisher, it's another 12 months. So at least I hear you. But that is. That's such a beautiful full circle moment to be able to come back to where the inspiration came from and then do it with your friends and like you said, build this world. That's really special.
• 44:17
  Speaker A: It's really fun going out and doing the book signings with Melissa and Mike. I mean, Melissa and I went on a book tour together in 2002 and 2003. So it's this sort of crazy full circle 20 something years later.
• 44:35
  Speaker B: Yeah. I have so much more that I wanted to talk to you about, but I'm going to close out with one last question. If there are people listening like me, who maybe struggle to engage or access their inner child or just a part of them that's able to play what's like a easy way back in. Like, what's a step they can take to re access their sense of play today?
• 45:02
  Speaker A: I mean, I don't know if you did this when you were a kid, but sometimes in class, if we were all antsy or before gym, the teacher would be like, everybody get up and get like your heebie jeebies out.
• 45:14
  Speaker B: And you'd like, yeah, just shake it out.
• 45:17
  Speaker A: Like literally do that. Yeah, just do that. Or I don't know, put on your favorite song at home and dance. Just do that, that 30 seconds. Do it for 30 seconds. There's no way you won't get a jolt. I would also love to add, and not from a selfish standpoint, but from a real standpoint is like, I truly believe in the magic of playing with slime. And. But when you, if you are playing with slime, you have to do handmade slime, quote unquote, over the counter, store bought, mass manufactured slime does not feel the same way as a handmade slime. And it doesn't offer the same tricks and attributes as a handmade slime. But that's another way. It's like, it's. You're on your hands and what I had a psychiatrist that I went to as a friend. She's a friend named Dr. Judith Joseph. If I was like, why? Tell me why the scientifically is happening for me. And she was. One thing she said was, when you are playing with the slime, it smells good. Scent is the scent that's closest tied to memory. So literally, like, I don't know, pick up a box of Froot Loops and smell it. Like, you will go right back to seven, I guarantee you. Or eat a bowl. I know it's not maybe the healthiest thing in the world to go eat a bowl of Froot Loops, but sure, that tastes good. But she was like, it's. So you're taking yourself back to a memory from scent and she's like, you're watching it visually and it's mesmerizing to watch a slime drizzle. Or if you're mixing two colors, you know, blue and red make purple. But when you watch it swirl together and start to change, your brain is, is gonna be caught up in what's happening next. And then your endorphins start shooting off. She goes. And you're feeling it and I don't know if you can hear that. It makes really great sounds. So when you're doing something that is triggering these senses at once, it's really hard to go into the story, oh, I have to do this. Oh, I didn't do that. Oh, I'm not good at this. What if this can happen?
• 47:21
  Speaker B: Yeah. You're not in the future. You're not in the past. You're just right there in that moment.
• 47:24
  Speaker A: Get up and get your heebie jeebies out.
• 47:26
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 47:27
  Speaker A: Literally start there. I love what you said your life coach did, which was ask you the things you loved when you were little. Those are the things we should be doing now.
• 47:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 47:38
  Speaker A: Like, get that. It's so hard to get out of your head when you find yourself in play, you are not in your head. So 30 seconds can lead to a minute. One minute can lead to two. Two can turn to five. Like, it's like meditation. You don't need to put all this pressure on yourself and do two hours every day. Just take five minutes and give yourself that little, little gift.
• 48:03
  Speaker B: If you didn't say it, I would have. I experienced it personally. My son goes to occupational therapy. She incorporates slime into sensory programs. So, I mean, there's just so many benefits to it. I certainly am a huge advocate and I love, love what you're building. It's so deeply meaningful and purposeful. So I just want to celebrate you and everything you're doing. I think what you've built is the way you built it. Overcoming grief and loss is really inspiring. And I appreciate the point you made, that when you find yourself in play, you're not in your head anymore. And to me, that kind of feels like the point. You're reminding me that there's a younger version of me inside that still knows how to play. So thank you once again. I really appreciate you being here today and sharing your story.
• 48:52
  Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you for sharing your personal story as well. That was powerful.
• 48:58
  Speaker B: If you're enjoying this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We've got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow, and stay tuned.