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MSP after another road worker death: “It was a preventable crash” · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello and welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation Podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm Jeff Cranson.
• 0:12
  Jeff Cranson: Our state lost another road worker last week in a crash that Michigan State Police Troopers said was totally preventable.
• 0:25
  Jeff Cranson: In fact, Michigan State Police Lieutenant Rene Gonzalez told media outlets after the crash that "this was no mistake.
• 0:32
  Jeff Cranson: It was a preventable crash".
• 0:33
  Jeff Cranson: He urged all motorists to remain entirely focused, reduce their speed, and give crews the safe clearance that they need to do their jobs.
• 0:42
  Jeff Cranson: So with that in mind, I'm resurrecting an episode from 2025 when Gregg Brunner, the COO at MDOT, talked about work zone crashes and what's being done to prevent them.
• 0:55
  Jeff Cranson: As always, the focus needs to be on driver responsibility, despite all kinds of technology and all kinds of improvements that can be made to make work zones safer for drivers and workers.
• 1:07
  Jeff Cranson: So Gregg Brunner, the chief operations officer at MDOT, I mentioned in the introduction why this topic is particularly important to him.
• 1:18
  Jeff Cranson: I think I've talked about this before on the podcast, but to give people a sense of his commitment to work zone safety, he has a full orange suit that he wears on the work zone safety awareness kickoff each year, and uh gets a lot of a lot of comments.
• 1:38
  Jeff Cranson: And uh the whole idea is to draw attention to it, and I think it works.
• 1:41
  Jeff Cranson: Greg, um thanks for taking time to talk today.
• 1:45
  Jeff Cranson: I was um really struck by a message that you sent out to staff, operations staff around the state in the wake of a series of incredibly tragic events that one involved a former MDOT engineer who worked for a consulting engineering company.
• 2:04
  Jeff Cranson: Um, a very close call in Monroe County.
• 2:07
  Jeff Cranson: Uh unfortunately, a truck driver died there, and several MDOT workers from the Monroe Garage were injured.
• 2:13
  Jeff Cranson: And then another incident, not actually on the road, but um work related to the road where a contractor was killed.
• 2:22
  Jeff Cranson: All of this uh really hit home.
• 2:25
  Jeff Cranson: And uh you sent out a very poignant, I think, and somber message to the staff.
• 2:30
  Jeff Cranson: So can you talk about that and and what prompted that?
• 2:33
  Gregg Brunner: Sure.
• 2:33
  Gregg Brunner: Um, again, thanks for having me, Jeff.
• 2:35
  Gregg Brunner: And as you know, with my orange suit and everything else that I do, I'm always willing to talk about safety.
• 2:40
  Gregg Brunner: So I appreciate being here today.
• 2:42
  Gregg Brunner: Um, but yeah, as you mentioned uh at MDOT, it's been a hard few weeks when it comes to work zones with a few losses that we've had here and a few really close calls that had happened out on our roadways.
• 2:54
  Gregg Brunner: I just kind of sent that message out just to remind people how critical it is um to take safety into everything we do on a daily basis.
• 3:01
  Gregg Brunner: To pretty much always remember to stay alert and kind of keep an eye on traffic no matter what you're doing, whether you're in a work zone or driving or other types of things, that um safety is not really something you can let slack.
• 3:13
  Gregg Brunner: Something we need to kind of always stay on guard with.
• 3:16
  Gregg Brunner: I know, kind of as you get into the middle of construction season and you're dealing with traffic on a on a daily basis.
• 3:22
  Gregg Brunner: Um, my biggest concern is I don't want people to become complacent when it gets to safety in terms of what they do.
• 3:29
  Gregg Brunner: And again, it's not if just if you're out working in a work zone or even working in the garage or even in the office day-to-day, there's different things you do to need to keep an eye on your own safety.
• 3:40
  Gregg Brunner: Um, you know, whether it's driving to work, driving through construction zones or anything else, just simpler reminders, even to just wear a seatbelt, keep your eyes on the road, um, whether you're driving normally or in a work zone, because you know, even some of these queue crashes that happened to our friend and uh former coworker, those weren't quite to the work zone yet.
• 4:00
  Gregg Brunner: Traffic had backed up.
• 4:01
  Gregg Brunner: And you know, at the end of the day, these incidents that we saw in the past couple weeks um with our our folks, they were came down to people not paying attention, is what it was, other people on the roadway.
• 4:12
  Gregg Brunner: Um so those investigations are still ongoing.
• 4:16
  Gregg Brunner: We don't have all the details yet, but for the most part, we had things set up um from a standard safety standpoint.
• 4:22
  Gregg Brunner: So what I've kind of asked our folks to do not only is to focus on safety, but to look out for each other while they're out there too.
• 4:29
  Gregg Brunner: If you're driving through a work zone and notice something that may not look right, feel free to give that office a call to kind of talk through things.
• 4:35
  Gregg Brunner: Um, you know, if your coworker is doing something that doesn't work right or a contractor or anything else, you know, don't hesitate to speak up because just simple words like that could be the difference that that really impacts someone's life down the road.
• 4:47
  Gregg Brunner: Um, you know, lots of these things that have happened, whether it's any of the crashes that happened on our roadways, no one expects those to happen on their way to work or wherever they're going that day.
• 4:56
  Gregg Brunner: So anything we can do to keep each other safe and keep an eye on each other goes goes a long way.
• 5:01
  Gregg Brunner: So I just wanted to send out that message kind of as a reminder for our folks that no matter what's going on, everybody that's out in the work zone, every vest, every hard hat, every orange barrel, that's a person, one of our friends, one of our teammates, and again, someone that wants to go home at the end of the day and see their family.
• 5:17
  Gregg Brunner: So again, that's kind of what my message was aimed at is just to a general reminder to keep each other safe and look out for what we're doing on a daily basis.
• 5:26
  Jeff Cranson: I think what you said um in your message that probably was most uh effective and really uh struck me was uh safety is a mindset, not a checklist.
• 5:38
  Jeff Cranson: It's about being present, engaged, and always looking out for one another.
• 5:41
  Jeff Cranson: Uh it's it's really easy to lapse and forget and take these things for granted.
• 5:46
  Jeff Cranson: Um but really uh as much as we want to focus on the workers and what they're doing and wearing the proper gear and the right safety gear, all those things.
• 5:56
  Jeff Cranson: Um distracted driving, you know, it's been a problem for a long time, as we've talked about many times.
• 6:03
  Jeff Cranson: The more ways we invent to make our vehicles safer, the more ways we invent to distract ourselves.
• 6:08
  Jeff Cranson: And uh that really took off during early days of the pandemic.
• 6:12
  Jeff Cranson: We know that uh there were more incidents of distracted driving, more incidents of uh people driving under the influence, people not wearing seatbelts, extreme speeds, all those things.
• 6:22
  Jeff Cranson: Um the only way I think we're ever gonna solve this is through technology that helps us further human-proof the system because humans are always going to make mistakes.
• 6:32
  Jeff Cranson: Um there's a lot of companies, there's a lot of research going on with technology.
• 6:37
  Jeff Cranson: And I I hope that someday, and I'm interested in your thoughts about what we're already doing, we get to the point where at least commercial vehicles, big heavy vehicles, could be have a warning that goes off.
• 6:49
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, much more than just a pop-up on your ways or your Google Maps, but something, you know, in the cab that tells the driver, hey, traffic is stopped one mile ahead, you know, something like that.
• 7:01
  Jeff Cranson: How do you think we're doing with developing that kind of thing?
• 7:04
  Gregg Brunner: Um, that's something, again, that takes time to get into every vehicle that's out on the roadways.
• 7:09
  Gregg Brunner: But we are performing lots of pilots.
• 7:11
  Gregg Brunner: And again, when you start talking about work zones and people paying attention, there's some things we're doing more on the static standpoint in terms of increased signing and other types of things.
• 7:20
  Gregg Brunner: But also what we've within the last few years, what we started doing is adding temporary rumble strips to a lot of the lead-ins to our work zones, just so that if people are doing something distracting, it gives them uh the idea to look up and pay attention to what's going on.
• 7:35
  Gregg Brunner: Because as you know, when it starts talking to work zones, things can change quickly.
• 7:38
  Gregg Brunner: But I think really looking forward, like you had mentioned, is how can we use technology to keep things safer?
• 7:45
  Gregg Brunner: Um, there are things we are doing right now, as well as many things we're piloting in terms of how to make that happen.
• 7:50
  Gregg Brunner: Um, some of the things we are doing now on quite a few projects where we anticipate um traffic backups due to construction are what's called a queue detection system, where we actually and we're on projects where we anticipate a longer queue length due to due to work zones, we actually put out sensors and cameras out there that will, once they notice traffic is starting to queue up, that they'll send alerts to changeable message boards in advance of that to warn people of queues ahead, you know, traffic queue in one mile or two miles ahead, those types of things.
• 8:24
  Gregg Brunner: So there's technologies like that we're already doing right now.
• 8:26
  Gregg Brunner: But there's other things we're looking at as well.
• 8:29
  Gregg Brunner: Um, more recently, what we started doing for projects that were let this spring are including a spec in our plans calling for every arrow board we use in work zones to be a connected arrow board.
• 8:40
  Gregg Brunner: And what that means is that it sends out a feed through what's called the work zone data exchange.
• 8:46
  Gregg Brunner: And that's kind of a standard language that was developed through um ITE and some other groups to look at kind of a consistent message that any uh vehicle would be able to interpret, adapt, or put into their on-screen navigation system to alert drivers of something ahead.
• 9:06
  Gregg Brunner: So, again, once they send out that message through the work zone data exchange, that can be incorporated into vehicle technology to let them know that there's a work zone ahead.
• 9:15
  Gregg Brunner: So those are things that are really going on right now.
• 9:17
  Gregg Brunner: But looking farther down the road, we're looking at other types of pilots.
• 9:21
  Gregg Brunner: Um, recently one we did was called Safe Zone, which where we received a grant from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration to put more cameras and sensors out in our roadways that would then send messages in vehicle messages to commercial vehicles, kind of like you had talked about early on.
• 9:39
  Gregg Brunner: So the technology is getting there.
• 9:42
  Gregg Brunner: Um, it's just a matter of having uh operators to ingest that equipment or things installed in their vehicles to be able to allow that to happen.
• 9:50
  Gregg Brunner: So, again, like anything with those large technology transitions, those take time.
• 9:55
  Gregg Brunner: But we're looking at that technology doing many different pilots right now to be able to incorporate things for the future, um, just to make things safer for everybody.
• 10:06
  Gregg Brunner: Um, beyond that, we are also working with another vendor on a pilot where we're installing uh sensors into our vehicles where once we flip on our lights for in the work zone, whether they're the construction bubble lights that we have on our trucks, once those go on, it sends out a message that is ingested by uh Stellantis vehicles, Volkswagen vehicles, Google, Waze, and other things, just to warn that there's a construction zone ahead or work zone ahead or whatever else.
• 10:35
  Gregg Brunner: And where I see this being um very helpful is on some of the emergency response or other types of vehicles that kind of work outside of the work zones, whether they're bridge inspections or electricians or other types of things, where there may not be a lot of work zone signings set up in advance because they're only out there a very brief time.
• 10:53
  Gregg Brunner: But again, the intent is to set get those into those in vehicle navigation systems to give people that alert that something's going on ahead to pay attention and then most importantly to stay safe.
• 11:04
  Jeff Cranson: Stay with us.
• 11:04
  Jeff Cranson: We'll have more on the other side of this important message.
• 11:11
  MDOT Message: Have you ever ridden with someone who turns down the music when they're driving through an unfamiliar situation?
• 11:16
  MDOT Message: What do you do to make sure you're alert when approaching a work zone?
• 11:20
  MDOT Message: Everyone should slow down, pause your conversation, and follow posted traffic signs.
• 11:27
  MDOT Message: Do whatever it takes to avoid distraction.
• 11:30
  MDOT Message: Keep Michigan work zone safe for construction crews and your passengers.
• 11:38
  Jeff Cranson: We haven't uh done an update in a while.
• 11:41
  Jeff Cranson: I've talked about this in the podcast in the past.
• 11:43
  Jeff Cranson: It took us uh a long time.
• 11:45
  Jeff Cranson: It was a laborious process, but uh eventually paid off with the legislation that it'll allow for uh some automated enforcement with safety cameras and work zones.
• 11:57
  Jeff Cranson: We know that the other states, I don't know what it is now, 23 to 25, that have done this have seen a difference.
• 12:04
  Jeff Cranson: It's actually helped reduce those kinds of crashes.
• 12:08
  Jeff Cranson: I have no doubt that some of the ones that we're talking about, if people knew, if they were told by signs ahead of time that you're going to be, your speed is going to be monitored and you could be sighted if you're speeding when you go through this work zone.
• 12:22
  Jeff Cranson: That's gonna get people's attention.
• 12:23
  Jeff Cranson: Um, all the research shows, especially with younger people, that you know, fear of dying doesn't affect them because they think they're invincible.
• 12:32
  Jeff Cranson: But if you tell them it's gonna hit their wallet, that does get their attention.
• 12:36
  Jeff Cranson: So where are we at with that?
• 12:38
  Gregg Brunner: Sure.
• 12:39
  Gregg Brunner: Um, so it was last year that was actually signed into law um to allow us to be able to incorporate work zone safety cameras into our projects.
• 12:47
  Gregg Brunner: So where we are right now is we're looking at other states in terms of some of the proposals they had sent out, but the plan is to hire a vendor that specializes in this technology to be able to incorporate into our work zones.
• 13:01
  Gregg Brunner: Um, there are some specific criteria within the law in terms of where this can be used.
• 13:05
  Gregg Brunner: So it can only be used in certain work zones around the state that are there.
• 13:09
  Gregg Brunner: Over 30 days, um, aren't behind barrier wall, a few other things that we're working through right now.
• 13:16
  Gregg Brunner: But again, the intent is to hire a contractor to be able to perform that.
• 13:20
  Gregg Brunner: And the way it is set up is it's not like other uh speeding tickets that you would receive.
• 13:27
  Gregg Brunner: Um, the way it's set up is it's only it hits your pocketbook, not necessarily points associated with it.
• 13:34
  Gregg Brunner: So well, first violation, you would just get a written warning in the mail.
• 13:38
  Gregg Brunner: The second violation would be a $150 fine, and the third and subsequent violations would be uh civil infractions no greater than $300.
• 13:47
  Gregg Brunner: So that's kind of how things would look in terms of fines that would go out from these work zone safety cameras.
• 13:54
  Gregg Brunner: But again, what I've always said is my hope is that we put these out and no fines are issued because people are driving the proper speeds out there through our work zones to keep everybody safe, not only the workers, but those driving through, those in queues, everyone else.
• 14:08
  Gregg Brunner: Um and the pretty amazing thing we've seen in talking to other states, in particular Maryland, what they saw when these rolled out was an increase of almost 90% of vehicles that traveled at the speed um that they were supposed to be out there.
• 14:23
  Gregg Brunner: So again, it's what we want is the goal of this is um not for citations, but overall for driver compliance.
• 14:30
  Gregg Brunner: Again, we just want want to keep folks safe.
• 14:33
  Gregg Brunner: Because once you keep folks traveling about the same speed, that's really improved safety throughout the entire stretch of roadway there.
• 14:41
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I think it's good to emphasize that this is not at all uh about speed traps and and money grabs.
• 14:47
  Jeff Cranson: This is completely uh, as you said, if it gets people to slow down and there aren't any fines, that's great.
• 14:53
  Jeff Cranson: That's the that's the ultimate goal.
• 14:55
  Jeff Cranson: And that money would only go to help uh manage program.
• 15:01
  Jeff Cranson: Uh it's not it's not gonna be some kind of you know moneymaker for anybody.
• 15:05
  Jeff Cranson: So I don't think we can emphasize that enough.
• 15:07
  Jeff Cranson: And uh Sean Duffy, who's the US DOT secretary, is uh very interested in safety.
• 15:12
  Jeff Cranson: He says it's a top priority, and he's also interested in technology.
• 15:16
  Jeff Cranson: So my hope is that um some of these things can get traction at the federal level.
• 15:21
  Jeff Cranson: And I know I know it's a bit of a dilemma because you can say you're about safety, but then you're also dealing with people who see it from a civil libertarian viewpoint and various ways that people are being tracked.
• 15:34
  Jeff Cranson: But I would hope that ultimately the the imperative to get people to slow down when they're driving through you know somebody's workspace um and thinking about that person not as just a hard hat, but as a mother or father or sister or brother, um just like the rest of us, that that can actually make an impact someday.
• 15:55
  Jeff Cranson: What's your hope on the horizon for where we're at?
• 15:59
  Jeff Cranson: I guess I don't know, five years from now, 10 years from now.
• 16:02
  Gregg Brunner: Um, well, I hope really the smart work zone technology takes off where we've done quite a few pilots of different things to send out notifications to vehicles.
• 16:11
  Gregg Brunner: But you know, beyond the notifications, are there things we can do to incorporate to get cars to slow down or other types of things to maintain safe distances when you're driving through work zones or to mitigate cues, those types of things.
• 16:23
  Gregg Brunner: So again, it's we've looked at a lot of the static things out there, but again, working with technology providers and um the automotive industry to be able to improve just safety overall.
• 16:34
  Gregg Brunner: Again, it's gonna have to come through technology, though, I think, beyond just some of the static things we've historically done.
• 16:40
  Gregg Brunner: So I'm hopeful that that things work out.
• 16:43
  Gregg Brunner: And again, that's kind of what keeps me motivated though when it comes to safety every day.
• 16:47
  Gregg Brunner: We still have about a thousand people dying on our roads annually.
• 16:51
  Gregg Brunner: So, again, that's what keeps me motivated every day when I come to work is to keep pushing that number down to zero.
• 16:58
  Jeff Cranson: Well, and going to the message and the reason that we started this conversation in the first place, I I know you've done uh a lot of speaking and a lot of uh discussion with other people, other DOTs and people at the federal level about uh about mental health and how you know the challenges, the unique challenges to that.
• 17:17
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, every job has stress and certainly there's all kinds of causes of mental health.
• 17:22
  Jeff Cranson: But to think about the workforce that has to work in this kind of environment with the uh the inherent dangers all around, it definitely takes its toll.
• 17:33
  Jeff Cranson: So um anything new you want to say about that?
• 17:37
  Gregg Brunner: No, I just think kind of the biggest thing that people may not realize when it comes to mental health is that it really impacts the construction industry um more than more than many others that you would believe, um, just due to uh not only the long hours, but again, the stressful situations trying to deal with contracts and fixed price and schedule and everything else.
• 17:58
  Gregg Brunner: But in the back of your mind, also noting that traffic's still traveling by you at excessive rates of speed, you know, feet away from where you're trying to concentrate to get your job done.
• 18:07
  Gregg Brunner: So again, that's that's a big part of it that people may not think about, but again, it it plays a role in everything else we do.
• 18:13
  Gregg Brunner: And again, my goal is just to keep keep folks safe.
• 18:16
  Gregg Brunner: I want everyone to get home at the end of the day to their family, friends, and loved ones.
• 18:20
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, well said.
• 18:21
  Jeff Cranson: Well, thanks, Gregg.
• 18:22
  Jeff Cranson: Thanks for taking the time to talk about this again and uh for doing what you can to get the word out.
• 18:28
  Jeff Cranson: Thanks for having me, Jeff.
• 18:29
  Jeff Cranson: I appreciate it.
• 18:30
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning in to Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 19:03
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple Podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 19:08
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who help make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, and Jacke Salinas, who posts the podcast to various platforms, and transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.