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BPS 380: Watch This to Survive on a Film Set with Christine Chen · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more
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Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifagpodcastnetwork dot com.
0:12
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three eighty.
0:16
Speaker 2: I'm happy to do anything on a film set. Nick
0:19
Speaker 2: Frost broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when
0:24
Speaker 2: we really should be working on that next draft.
0:26
Speaker 1: It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
0:30
Speaker 1: business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
0:33
Speaker 1: screenplay bulletproof.
0:34
Speaker 2: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
0:40
Speaker 2: episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host,
0:43
Speaker 2: Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now.
0:49
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Speaker 2: by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com. Now, guys,
1:33
Speaker 2: this is one episode I wish existed when I was
1:36
Speaker 2: first starting out in the film industry. We are going
1:39
Speaker 2: to be talking about how to survive on a film set.
1:43
Speaker 2: The film set is this magical place with a lot
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Speaker 2: of different languages and words and things that the normies
1:51
Speaker 2: out there would never understand, like what's a stinger, what's
1:54
Speaker 2: an apple box, what's a martini shot? And so many
1:57
Speaker 2: other things, And today's guests down and wrote a book
2:02
Speaker 2: to explain it in the most beautiful and easy way
2:06
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. Her name is Christine Chen and she
2:09
Speaker 2: is a veteran of the film set, to say the least.
2:13
Speaker 2: And this episode we talk about a lot of those words,
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Speaker 2: how to act on set, what some of these words
2:20
Speaker 2: mean so you don't look like a new beyond set
2:23
Speaker 2: and even if you've been on set a ton, this
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Speaker 2: episode might remind you of those few things into other
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Speaker 2: departments that you might not know about and might help
2:31
Speaker 2: you not look like, oh god, this this person has
2:35
Speaker 2: no idea what they're talking about on set. It's a really,
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Speaker 2: really valuable episode. So without any further ado, please enjoy
2:41
Speaker 2: my conversation with Christine Chen. I like to welcome to
2:45
Speaker 2: the show, Christine Chen. How you doing, Christine, I'm good.
2:48
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
2:51
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on the show. You know,
2:53
Speaker 2: I've done six hundred plus episodes right now at this
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Speaker 2: point as of this recording, and I've ever done a
3:01
Speaker 2: kind of on set survival guide for not only PA's
3:06
Speaker 2: but specifically for pas and interns and onset interns, but
3:10
Speaker 2: also for crew members and new crew members and different
3:12
Speaker 2: departments that just don't understand the carne language that is
3:17
Speaker 2: a film set. So you guys decided to write a
3:19
Speaker 2: book called get Yeah, Listen, which, by the way, it
3:24
Speaker 2: is as simple beautifully you know, it's not like it's
3:29
Speaker 2: as you could if you guys can see, it's all
3:32
Speaker 2: pretty pictures and everything, so it's real like it's to
3:35
Speaker 2: the point, and it's as a book that I wish
3:38
Speaker 2: I would have had when I started out. I'm sure
3:40
Speaker 2: you feel.
3:40
Speaker 3: That that's why we created it. Yeah, I'm glad you
3:43
Speaker 3: pointed that out. That's exactly why we created it. So
3:46
Speaker 3: I got started in the industry in like two thousand, dude,
3:51
Speaker 3: two thousand and Jesus fifteen fourteen around then. Sure, And yeah,
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Speaker 3: I remember going on my first set and somebody asking
4:01
Speaker 3: me for a stinger, and I had no clue what
4:03
Speaker 3: that was. No clue, and nobody tells you this. You
4:08
Speaker 3: just get thrown into the wolves and a film set
4:11
Speaker 3: is super high paced, and you're already stressed out that
4:14
Speaker 3: you want to make a good impression because you finally
4:16
Speaker 3: got onto a film set and someone's like, get a singer.
4:20
Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know what the f that is,
4:22
Speaker 3: And so the only option at that point is to
4:27
Speaker 3: hopefully snag a crew member that has the time and
4:30
Speaker 3: patience to explain it to you. But then you then
4:34
Speaker 3: you have the fear of sounding just showing that you
4:37
Speaker 3: don't know what you're doing. I mean, not that you know,
4:41
Speaker 3: you going around set is not enough to show that
4:44
Speaker 3: you don't know what you're doing, but like to just
4:47
Speaker 3: add insult to that, to be that obvious that you
4:50
Speaker 3: don't even know how people talk on set is even worse.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, look, look we will know if you don't,
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Speaker 2: if you're nu on set within three to four minutes
5:02
Speaker 2: of just seeing the way they exactly, if they're like, wow,
5:05
Speaker 2: this is cool, they're brand new. They still sparkles in
5:10
Speaker 2: their eyes, brand spanking. Then you've got the grizzled grip
5:13
Speaker 2: that just walks by has been doing it for twenty
5:15
Speaker 2: five years. And I'm like, there you go. That's he
5:18
Speaker 2: doesn't care about any movie stars anything. He's like, I'm
5:22
Speaker 2: here for a job. You want to push the dolliyy
5:24
Speaker 2: pushed the dolly. That's as simple as that. But No,
5:27
Speaker 2: when I first got started out, I was thrown into
5:29
Speaker 2: the wolves, and I was going to a technical film
5:31
Speaker 2: school that actually taught you some of these things. So
5:34
Speaker 2: I went to Full Sale in Orlando, where is it
5:37
Speaker 2: very technical film school at least it was when I
5:39
Speaker 2: was there, and I knew what a stinger was. But
5:41
Speaker 2: there's still this Carni language of you know, an apple
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Speaker 2: box and and you know a honey wagon and crafty
5:48
Speaker 2: and all of these things that you just don't know.
5:50
Speaker 2: And you and I take it for granted, because we've
5:52
Speaker 2: been on set up a ton of times over the years.
5:54
Speaker 2: But when you're first on set, your you're nervous as hell.
5:57
Speaker 2: And the thing is anyone listening who gets on set
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Speaker 2: for the first time, they just have to understand that
6:01
Speaker 2: most people, most people on the crew, depending on who
6:05
Speaker 2: you get on them, what type of the day you get,
6:07
Speaker 2: understand that you know nothing. And if you're a PA,
6:11
Speaker 2: it's expected you know nothing unless you're like the forty
6:14
Speaker 2: five year old pa. And that's another conversation. Yes, so yeah,
6:21
Speaker 2: because I've met those guys, I'm.
6:23
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, me too.
6:24
Speaker 2: Have you ever thought of going into a department?
6:26
Speaker 3: No?
6:28
Speaker 2: Solid, I'm like, all right, brother, you do you? So?
6:32
Speaker 2: How did you? So? Let me ask you the first question,
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Speaker 2: why did you want to get into this insanity, this
6:39
Speaker 2: carny world that is the film business?
6:40
Speaker 3: You know? I when I wake up at like four
6:43
Speaker 3: am to get on set, I asked myself that every.
6:46
Speaker 2: Time, is this Why am I doing this?
6:50
Speaker 3: My? Why? Why did we do this to ourselves? Or
6:54
Speaker 3: I'm on the you know, the fifth overnight, I'm like,
6:57
Speaker 3: why am I doing this again? And then I you know,
7:02
Speaker 3: you get through it, and then the next day. You
7:04
Speaker 3: wake up and let's say you're off. You're like, wait,
7:07
Speaker 3: why am I not on set? You know? And so
7:11
Speaker 3: it's weird. It's a very strange thing. And I tell
7:14
Speaker 3: new filmmakers this all the time. You'll know if you
7:17
Speaker 3: belong or you don't, you know, you'll go on your complain,
7:20
Speaker 3: you'll get off. Maybe maybe not one day. Maybe you
7:23
Speaker 3: give you like two or three days, and you if
7:25
Speaker 3: you feel the ish, then you just know. I was
7:29
Speaker 3: in documentary filmmaking. Actually before I went on set, I
7:34
Speaker 3: had been a one man band for a while. In
7:37
Speaker 3: undergrad you have to be a well rounded person, so
7:41
Speaker 3: they say, you know, you have to do a credit
7:45
Speaker 3: in an art class, and so I fell into filmmaking
7:50
Speaker 3: at that point. I chose an intro to documentary filmmaking
7:54
Speaker 3: course Rice University and loved it. I loved the editing part,
8:00
Speaker 3: I loved the telling the story part. Everything, and that
8:03
Speaker 3: was I mean, that was all I knew. And I thought, okay, cool,
8:07
Speaker 3: that was fun hobby. You know, it's and I'll never
8:10
Speaker 3: deal with filmmaking again. And I but I should have
8:15
Speaker 3: known that things were going to change after that, because
8:20
Speaker 3: the proportion of time that I spent on that class.
8:23
Speaker 3: The intro class was probably like seventy percent of my
8:27
Speaker 3: time and then like the rest of my ten classes
8:29
Speaker 3: was like the last ten percent maybe add like partying
8:33
Speaker 3: and all the other stuff to it. And so but
8:38
Speaker 3: my culture, I'm a first generation in Taiwanese American. You
8:44
Speaker 3: don't pursue stuff like filmmaking or art of any sort.
8:49
Speaker 3: You're a doctor, an engineer, something practical, you know that
8:51
Speaker 3: will give you a study nine to five job. And
8:55
Speaker 3: it took me doing one of those jobs that was
8:58
Speaker 3: a IT consultant. After I graduated that I realized I
9:04
Speaker 3: didn't want to do that, and I was searching for
9:06
Speaker 3: myself as to what I was going to do, and
9:08
Speaker 3: for some reason landed on being a lawyer. And so
9:13
Speaker 3: you have to take the LSATs to be able to
9:16
Speaker 3: even qualify, and to do that, there's prep courses and stuff,
9:20
Speaker 3: and I'm terrible taking tests. So I took one of
9:22
Speaker 3: those courses, and you know, the universe has a way
9:25
Speaker 3: of laughing at you. My Elsat teacher was a filmmaker
9:32
Speaker 3: and he was it was in Houston at that time,
9:35
Speaker 3: and he, I guess, had a group that was doing
9:38
Speaker 3: the forty eight hour film festival thing. He was like, hey,
9:42
Speaker 3: you want to be a PA. No clue what that was,
9:45
Speaker 3: because there's art pas and intro to documentary film at all.
9:50
Speaker 3: You are one person, you do everything yourself.
9:52
Speaker 2: So I'm like, yeah, sure, we'll be right back after
9:56
Speaker 2: a word from our sponsor and now back to the show.
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Speaker 3: No clue. Show up and they get now I know
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Speaker 3: what I was actually doing. I was the second AC,
10:11
Speaker 3: but it was PA. But they gave me a slate
10:14
Speaker 3: and I was the happiest person ever. I was like,
10:16
Speaker 3: oh my god, I have such an important job using
10:18
Speaker 3: a slate, writing around this thing, and that people wanted
10:24
Speaker 3: to take pictures with, you know, and and I just
10:29
Speaker 3: it clicked. It just I don't know what happened. They
10:32
Speaker 3: say there's divine intervention. Some people go on and have
10:35
Speaker 3: a light bulb moment, and I definitely would say I
10:37
Speaker 3: had a light bulb moment. I just felt like a
10:39
Speaker 3: belonged and that this crazy world was something that I
10:42
Speaker 3: really just loved. And it really just took that one set.
10:46
Speaker 3: I just I just remember being fascinated with everyone's job,
10:50
Speaker 3: which is not common for me usually, like you know,
10:54
Speaker 3: my dad's an engineering. I'll ask one sentence he tells me,
10:58
Speaker 3: like fine sentences, and I like tune out after two words.
11:00
Speaker 3: You know. But on this film set, every single job
11:05
Speaker 3: was fascinating to me. You know, I just I've never
11:07
Speaker 3: seen a follow focus before. I just you know, stared
11:10
Speaker 3: at that for a very long time. And then you know,
11:12
Speaker 3: grab water for like the grip, and I was like
11:15
Speaker 3: watching them build stuff and never seen that before, and
11:17
Speaker 3: looking at the makeup, you know, and just everything was cool.
11:21
Speaker 3: Now I looked out because the set that I got on,
11:24
Speaker 3: they actually knew what they were doing. I could have
11:27
Speaker 3: been on a ship show, but it was it was
11:30
Speaker 3: not and I forgot I'm allowed to customer.
11:32
Speaker 2: This came too late.
11:33
Speaker 3: Go ahead, okay, I mean we're talking.
11:37
Speaker 2: About we're talking about sets here. Okay, So no one
11:41
Speaker 2: ever curses on a set, so at all. As much
11:44
Speaker 2: cursing as you do on set or hurt you're on set,
11:46
Speaker 2: that's as much as you can do here. Okay, that's
11:49
Speaker 2: very bad.
11:49
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, but let me.
11:54
Speaker 2: I mean, you know what, when I was on a
11:55
Speaker 2: set for the first time too, it is very intoxicating.
11:59
Speaker 2: It's an intoxication environment. If you're in a good set.
12:01
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been on both. I've been on bad sets.
12:03
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, egos going out of crazy and then just
12:06
Speaker 2: things just like you said, a shit show, like they
12:09
Speaker 2: just don't know what they're doing. They can't make their day,
12:12
Speaker 2: you know. It just they're just a bunch of monkeys
12:14
Speaker 2: running around, you know, with a camera trying to do something.
12:17
Speaker 2: So I've been on those sets. And then I've been
12:19
Speaker 2: and then when you walk on a professional set working
12:21
Speaker 2: on a studio project or network project, and you just
12:24
Speaker 2: see these grizzled veterans who work like a well oiled machine.
12:30
Speaker 2: And what's fascinating is that a lot of times you'll
12:34
Speaker 2: go on the first day and everyone's on there for
12:36
Speaker 2: the first thing. Yeah, there might be a few people
12:38
Speaker 2: who know each other, but generally speaking, everyone's new on
12:41
Speaker 2: the on that set to each other, and they still
12:44
Speaker 2: run like a well oiled machine because they all understand
12:48
Speaker 2: their part in the machine. And it only only problems
12:52
Speaker 2: I overceely on set is when people overstep their their lane.
12:56
Speaker 2: They want to do this, or the DP wants to
12:58
Speaker 2: be the director, the director wants to be the live
13:00
Speaker 2: I think the guy department, yes exactly, or or like
13:05
Speaker 2: it's all about the dress No, it's not. It's all
13:08
Speaker 2: about the it's all about the curtains in the back.
13:12
Speaker 2: No it's not, dude, we need five hours for the
13:17
Speaker 2: for the curtains. No, no, five hours for the curtains.
13:20
Speaker 2: You got five minutes. So let's move along. So, so
13:23
Speaker 2: you've been on set so many times and obviously continues
13:26
Speaker 2: to work on sets. What is the biggest, like new
13:29
Speaker 2: be mistake you see that that pas make on day
13:32
Speaker 2: one or or on set interns too. This this kind
13:35
Speaker 2: of goes for both.
13:36
Speaker 3: Sure, I think for me is people going feeling entitled.
13:42
Speaker 3: And when I say entitled, it means like I think
13:46
Speaker 3: people have a from the from the out the outside world.
13:50
Speaker 3: You see the red carpets, you see the you know,
13:53
Speaker 3: entertainment tonight, and you see the people dressed up, and
13:56
Speaker 3: I think people going in and thinking like, oh, because
14:00
Speaker 3: as I'm a director, you know, or an aspiring director,
14:04
Speaker 3: I'm going to be able to jump, you know, jump
14:07
Speaker 3: positions and just start letting my opinion matters, you know.
14:13
Speaker 3: And sure to a certain extent, But like I think
14:17
Speaker 3: people forgetting that all the people that are on set
14:20
Speaker 3: started off and worked their way up to where they
14:23
Speaker 3: are and earned the right to be there and I
14:27
Speaker 3: and I think you be a mistake is thinking that
14:30
Speaker 3: things are below them, like oh, I don't need to
14:35
Speaker 3: get water for people or take the trash. It's like
14:38
Speaker 3: that's labor that's below me, you know. And and I think,
14:43
Speaker 3: no matter how veteran you are on set, there's you
14:46
Speaker 3: will realize. I feel like it's if you are a
14:49
Speaker 3: good crew member, you will always there will never be
14:54
Speaker 3: a job that is below you at any point in
14:57
Speaker 3: your career, you know, because you understand the value that
15:03
Speaker 3: each position, each job entails, and how that affects the
15:07
Speaker 3: overall success of the film. And that's the biggest thing
15:12
Speaker 3: I see for new Starry Eyed pas is that they
15:17
Speaker 3: come in thinking, oh, I went to college and I
15:20
Speaker 3: shouldn't need to go run Errand's and pick up dog
15:25
Speaker 3: poop and all this other which that happens. And that's
15:31
Speaker 3: the problem. And the thing is that we veterans can
15:36
Speaker 3: smell that and see that instantly, you know. Yeah, I mean,
15:41
Speaker 3: like you said, within two to it's so funny now
15:44
Speaker 3: being on the other side, when you're brand new, You're like, oh,
15:48
Speaker 3: nobody can tell I'm brand new. I could just like
15:50
Speaker 3: pretend that, No, we can tell within like like you said,
15:53
Speaker 3: two to three minutes, now we can also tell within
15:55
Speaker 3: two three minutes if you're good or not. And it's attitude.
15:59
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to do with skill, because getting water
16:02
Speaker 3: is not a skill. I mean, it's not like a
16:05
Speaker 3: thing that you have to learn. Everybody can do it.
16:07
Speaker 3: But there's like an attitude that comes with it for
16:10
Speaker 3: people who are good and who are not, and you
16:14
Speaker 3: can pick it out like within you know, you probably
16:17
Speaker 3: the same way. Within five minutes, I'm like, all right,
16:20
Speaker 3: I can count on these four pas out of these twenty,
16:22
Speaker 3: you know, like it's like yeah.
16:24
Speaker 2: Right, because there's going to be the four pas who
16:26
Speaker 2: are just hustle and left and the eyes how can
16:28
Speaker 2: I be anytime you turn around, there there yea waiting
16:32
Speaker 2: waiting what.
16:33
Speaker 3: Can I do? Do you mean anything? Yeah?
16:36
Speaker 2: And then the other ones are sitting around, you know,
16:39
Speaker 2: back found, Yeah you can't be found, or sitting around
16:42
Speaker 2: crafty talking about how the director's doing the job wrong
16:44
Speaker 2: and they.
16:45
Speaker 3: Can get better. Yep.
16:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen it so often and it's so and
16:52
Speaker 2: that's why I love you know, some of these some
16:55
Speaker 2: of these older grizzled veterans, the DPS, the you know,
17:00
Speaker 2: the the key grips, those departments, you know, I just
17:05
Speaker 2: throw them to the wolves.
17:07
Speaker 3: You know.
17:07
Speaker 2: If I see that on set, I'll be like, hey
17:09
Speaker 2: that guy, Yeah, good, go do your thing. Go do
17:13
Speaker 2: your thing, and and they just start, and they just
17:15
Speaker 2: start because it's God, it's it's it's such a weird
17:20
Speaker 2: thing on set culture because it is it is a
17:23
Speaker 2: Carney world. And I actually made a movie about Carney,
17:26
Speaker 2: so I have a really good understanding of the Carney
17:29
Speaker 2: world and Carneys and what they do and how they
17:31
Speaker 2: treat each other. And it's the secret language that you talk,
17:35
Speaker 2: you know, that we could talk to each other. And
17:38
Speaker 2: they'll put you through the grinder until you prove yourself
17:42
Speaker 2: that you belong to Yeah, and and they're going to
17:46
Speaker 2: beat you up and and in a in a almost
17:50
Speaker 2: almost right of passage kind of way, not in a
17:52
Speaker 2: physical way, not in a hopefully not in a derogatory way,
17:55
Speaker 2: though I think I've had that happen to me on
17:57
Speaker 2: set as well. I think sets have changed a little bit,
17:59
Speaker 2: hopefully since since my day. But it's because it's so
18:04
Speaker 2: tough being on set. I mean, I mean when I
18:08
Speaker 2: worked on set as a PA, I figured out really quickly,
18:12
Speaker 2: probably after a year of interning and being on stages,
18:16
Speaker 2: and you know, I went I was working at Universal Studios,
18:20
Speaker 2: I was working at Disney behind the scenes and productions
18:23
Speaker 2: and things like that. And like you said, when i
18:25
Speaker 2: wake up at three o'clock in the morning and I'm
18:26
Speaker 2: going out there somewhere sitting in the mud while it's raining,
18:30
Speaker 2: while I'm trying to wave people into where they're parking,
18:34
Speaker 2: and I'm like, this sucks.
18:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't.
18:39
Speaker 2: I don't you know what, I don't think this is
18:41
Speaker 2: what I want to do. I mean, I want to
18:42
Speaker 2: be on set, but this is not what I want
18:44
Speaker 2: to do. So I learned I just jumped from that
18:47
Speaker 2: to post real quick, and I was like, oh, no,
18:49
Speaker 2: air conditioning, carble tunnel, I'll deal with that. And I
18:54
Speaker 2: jumped for that. And then when I started to become
18:56
Speaker 2: a director and then started you know, as a post guy,
19:00
Speaker 2: started to go on set in then started to be
19:02
Speaker 2: directing and doing commercials and things like that, it's I'm like, Okay,
19:05
Speaker 2: this is where I want to be. But things that
19:07
Speaker 2: I learned along the way was that at a certain
19:09
Speaker 2: point in my career, I felt the ego felt that
19:13
Speaker 2: it was above doing some menial stuff and the crew
19:17
Speaker 2: picks it up. As a director, the crew picks it up.
19:21
Speaker 2: So now anytime I'm ever on set, and for the
19:23
Speaker 2: last ten, probably ten f plus years, I'm picking up
19:26
Speaker 2: garbage at the end of the day, I don't care,
19:28
Speaker 2: you know, I'll I'll grab stuff, I'll pick stuff up,
19:31
Speaker 2: and then other like some of the older what are
19:33
Speaker 2: you doing, sir, sir?
19:34
Speaker 3: Do you like?
19:35
Speaker 2: It's okay, guys, we all got to move it along.
19:37
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like, why are you picking that up?
19:39
Speaker 2: You're the director. I'm like, no, it's okay. If it's
19:41
Speaker 2: in the middle of the day, no, I have to
19:44
Speaker 2: do a job. But at the end of the day
19:45
Speaker 2: we've wrapped. Let me help out.
19:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me help out.
19:48
Speaker 2: And I never eat first. I always try to let
19:51
Speaker 2: I always try to let the crew go before me.
19:55
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
20:01
Speaker 2: and now back to the show. So they see that,
20:06
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, you guys are busting your ball, you know,
20:09
Speaker 2: go I want to help. But these are the little things,
20:11
Speaker 2: and no one tells you as a as a filmmaker
20:15
Speaker 2: or as a crew person, there's these etiquettes these kind
20:18
Speaker 2: of hidden languages. It's almost prison yard.
20:20
Speaker 3: Like yeah, totally, yeah, I mean I often say, oh,
20:27
Speaker 3: we're like just glorified movers and one thing from one
20:30
Speaker 3: side to the other side and we do it again. Yeah. No,
20:32
Speaker 3: it's just it's there's nothing super sure, you know, after
20:36
Speaker 3: the product is all done and stuff like that, and
20:38
Speaker 3: you don't care about the journey. Yeah, sure it could
20:40
Speaker 3: be a can be. Be it glamorous, but like it really
20:42
Speaker 3: isn't you.
20:43
Speaker 2: Know, And it is for some I mean it is
20:46
Speaker 2: for the actors, I mean the actor and sometimes it's
20:48
Speaker 2: not even that glamorous for the actors because it looks
20:50
Speaker 2: glamorous from the outside, but when they're they're on a
20:52
Speaker 2: on the fourteenth hour, freezing on a green stream hung
20:56
Speaker 2: by cables. Yeah, and they're just like, I got be
21:00
Speaker 2: super now, Like what am I doing here? Like it's
21:02
Speaker 2: like it's it's it's it's there's harder there's harder work
21:06
Speaker 2: in the world. Sure, yes, very we're blessed. We're very blessed,
21:10
Speaker 2: there's no question, but it is still not what everyone
21:15
Speaker 2: expects it to be. So it's really fascinating that way. Now.
21:19
Speaker 2: The one thing I always love and I love. What
21:21
Speaker 2: you wrote about in your book was walkie talkie etiquette? Now,
21:25
Speaker 2: I I I think when I was coming up there, Yeah,
21:29
Speaker 2: of course there was walkie talkies and I knew a
21:32
Speaker 2: little bit of it because I used to work on
21:34
Speaker 2: some some shows for Nickelodeon. So I was never the keypa.
21:38
Speaker 2: I was. I was always you know, office PA, or
21:40
Speaker 2: or on set PA. But I was in the kep
21:42
Speaker 2: a because again, not where I wanted to go, So
21:45
Speaker 2: I never went out that road. But can you talk
21:48
Speaker 2: a little bit about that is a completely secret language,
21:51
Speaker 2: And even to this day, I understand some of it,
21:53
Speaker 2: but as a director, it's not something you understand completely.
21:58
Speaker 2: So can you express and explain to people what walkie
22:00
Speaker 2: talkie advoctate is?
22:01
Speaker 3: Sure, so that's a big thing. When you first go
22:05
Speaker 3: on you're not going to see it for a tiny,
22:07
Speaker 3: tiny sis because most sets won't be able to afford
22:10
Speaker 3: walkie talkie. So when you do first get on a
22:13
Speaker 3: set that has walkie talkies, it can be very jarring
22:15
Speaker 3: and you're like, what is this thing? At first it's cool,
22:18
Speaker 3: and then at the end of the day you're like,
22:20
Speaker 3: please throw this in the trash because you have this
22:23
Speaker 3: person you have several people constantly talking in your head,
22:27
Speaker 3: and for people who don't know, the walkie talkies are
22:31
Speaker 3: a way for things to be moving behind the scenes
22:35
Speaker 3: while set things are being shot, and you do it
22:38
Speaker 3: very quietly because everybody has an ear piece in the
22:40
Speaker 3: ear and they can't hear. You know, it's not open
22:43
Speaker 3: WALKI hopefully, and you can't hear things are happening because
22:47
Speaker 3: it's all this in your head over the walkie and
22:50
Speaker 3: so there's just a specific way that you answer respond
22:57
Speaker 3: and it's very military. Honestly, I've heard it is it's
23:02
Speaker 3: I believe that's where it really came from. But a
23:06
Speaker 3: lot of it is. The way I can describe it
23:09
Speaker 3: is like if you were blind, Like, how would you
23:13
Speaker 3: know somebody heard your message, understood your message, and is
23:19
Speaker 3: working on your message right because and you're delivering this
23:22
Speaker 3: to you know, however big your crew is, because everybody
23:26
Speaker 3: is on the walkie, you know, and certain departments on
23:30
Speaker 3: their own channels and whatever. Most for the most part,
23:32
Speaker 3: people are on channel one for production, and so you
23:35
Speaker 3: just have to get really good at being specific and
23:40
Speaker 3: to keep the traffic on the walkie talkie as minimal
23:45
Speaker 3: as possible as well, so being specific concise, and so
23:50
Speaker 3: you're just it's a way of efficient communication and these
23:56
Speaker 3: shorthand ways of talking. This etiquette for this efficiency of
24:03
Speaker 3: talking on the radio. So uh, And it's hard. It's
24:07
Speaker 3: a lot harder said than done, because there will be
24:11
Speaker 3: something that happens, you know, I don't know, the honeywagon
24:15
Speaker 3: is stuck, you know, and in the middle of the
24:17
Speaker 3: set or something, and you've got a new PA who's
24:20
Speaker 3: like freaking out about it because it's his or her
24:22
Speaker 3: responsibility to get this honey wagon out of the middle
24:25
Speaker 3: of the scene, and everybody's yelling at them because it's,
24:28
Speaker 3: you know, taking out precious time from shooting, and they're
24:31
Speaker 3: describing this over the walkie and nobody and somebody who
24:35
Speaker 3: is nowhere near this set is like, what the f
24:37
Speaker 3: is going on? You know, and you're just like take
24:41
Speaker 3: it to too, take it to two, you know, put go,
24:44
Speaker 3: go on a different channel. But like you just don't
24:48
Speaker 3: until you've gone through the ringer and you've experienced that
24:52
Speaker 3: or you've you've been on the receiving end to have perspective.
24:58
Speaker 3: That's me you realize why this etiquette is so important.
25:02
Speaker 3: But it's things like when you have when you're asking
25:07
Speaker 3: for a department for something, you know, wardrobe, can you
25:12
Speaker 3: insert what you need Christine for, you know, and then
25:17
Speaker 3: the other receiving end having to say like copy so
25:20
Speaker 3: they know that I heard the message, you know type thing.
25:24
Speaker 3: It's just it's like playing telephone because you can't see anybody.
25:29
Speaker 3: That's the problem, you know. Sometimes you we're all in
25:32
Speaker 3: different parts of the set. I think that's the that's
25:35
Speaker 3: to give context. We are all in different parts of
25:39
Speaker 3: the set that they This could be within driving distance,
25:43
Speaker 3: far away, this could be deep in the boonies. And
25:49
Speaker 3: because let's say you're doing a big wide shot and
25:51
Speaker 3: you can't see people on set in the scene, so
25:54
Speaker 3: they're all hiding like far far away, or somebody who's
25:58
Speaker 3: in a truck who who has no clue is inefficible,
26:02
Speaker 3: has no clue what's going on, and said, you have
26:04
Speaker 3: to communicate to all of these people in an efficient
26:08
Speaker 3: way something important or not, you know. So so there's
26:14
Speaker 3: just a lot of shorthand for that, and it is
26:17
Speaker 3: extremely jarring when you have never had a walkie talkie
26:20
Speaker 3: and you get on set and you just want to like,
26:23
Speaker 3: I don't know, just talk on it like a regular person,
26:27
Speaker 3: you know, but like a telephone but it's not. Yeah,
26:30
Speaker 3: so uh so yeah, I have specific you know, lingo
26:37
Speaker 3: that's on there. And as long as you can you know,
26:40
Speaker 3: kind of get used to that, you should be able
26:44
Speaker 3: to survive being on walking by.
26:46
Speaker 2: Oh this is like practice and you're like, yeah, exactly,
26:49
Speaker 2: and it's a it's a new language and it's a
26:51
Speaker 2: protocols and how you do things, and you learn pretty quick.
26:55
Speaker 3: That's the thing is, Oh yeah, you learn real quick.
26:57
Speaker 2: You learn the real quick unless you just want to
26:58
Speaker 2: get yelled a constantly like uh you know. So you know,
27:02
Speaker 2: we're like, where's where's the act? Where's actor? Where's actor?
27:05
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, talent, where.
27:07
Speaker 2: Is walking walking? We're walking walking with actor two on
27:12
Speaker 2: our way minute away, minute away.
27:14
Speaker 3: E t A E T A of talent.
27:16
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, things like that. So it's it's talent will
27:20
Speaker 2: come out of his dressing room.
27:28
Speaker 3: And everybody switches the two and.
27:30
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, what's going on, Like it's yes, yeah, it's
27:33
Speaker 2: a problem. So now one thing I I've been asked
27:39
Speaker 2: this myself and I don't have an answer for it.
27:41
Speaker 2: Maybe you have an answer for There is so many
27:46
Speaker 2: secret names, code names for basic things on set. Stinger
27:53
Speaker 2: is an extension call baby a baby, yeah, baby, cheese,
27:59
Speaker 2: play rick, all of these things. Why not just say
28:05
Speaker 2: I need it, I need an extension court Now I
28:07
Speaker 2: know that's too. It's a little longer, stingers faster. Yeah,
28:10
Speaker 2: why these things were And then.
28:11
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think it just I think
28:16
Speaker 3: it's just a fast way to decipher something without having
28:22
Speaker 3: to because the thing is, there's like different sizes of
28:24
Speaker 3: certain pieces of equipment, there are different brands of certain
28:30
Speaker 3: pieces of equipment and stuff like that. And sometimes if
28:32
Speaker 3: you just give it, like a pet name, that pet
28:35
Speaker 3: name is so different from everything else, it's just easy
28:38
Speaker 3: to identify it. You know. It's so like I heard,
28:42
Speaker 3: and it changes all the time by region, by location,
28:46
Speaker 3: and that's the same thing. But yeah, like I heard
28:49
Speaker 3: taco cart. You know that was another thing. Oh you
28:52
Speaker 3: can grab the taco cart. But I think that's the
28:54
Speaker 3: Texas thing. You know.
28:56
Speaker 2: There is there, yeah, there is they Look, there's all
28:59
Speaker 2: all sorts of new ones. I heard the other day.
29:02
Speaker 2: Uh God, I hope they don't bring in spinning wheels
29:05
Speaker 2: of death for lunch. Have you heard of a spinning
29:07
Speaker 2: wheel of I haven't heard spinning wheel, pizza pizza.
29:11
Speaker 3: So opning wheels of death.
29:15
Speaker 2: The old DP is like, God, I hope they'll bring
29:17
Speaker 2: in spinning wheels of death, of lunch Jesus Christ. I'm like,
29:20
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's the spinning wheel of death that they're like, oh,
29:23
Speaker 2: it's it's this, and and uh and and there's one.
29:27
Speaker 2: It's a mean one because he's now passed, because it's
29:32
Speaker 2: actor passed, and they and I just remember I was
29:34
Speaker 2: on set. No, no, it wasn't. I wasn't the Garret Coleman.
29:38
Speaker 2: It was a Mickey Rooney. Oh you know what, you
29:42
Speaker 2: know what a Mickey Rooney is? Yes, give me just
29:44
Speaker 2: a little creep. Uh. They know it's mean, but these
29:49
Speaker 2: are the things you're just like, wow, man, like, how
29:52
Speaker 2: look I heard like give me a Mickey Rooney there
29:54
Speaker 2: and then the grip the key grips pushing the dollar
29:57
Speaker 2: and and the dps like, give me a Mickey Rooney.
29:59
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm sorry, what's a Mickey Rooney is like
30:02
Speaker 2: a little creep. We'll be right back after a word
30:05
Speaker 2: from our sponsor and now back to the show. I'm like, wow, okay,
30:14
Speaker 2: so it's just this Carney prisonly military that is brutal.
30:20
Speaker 3: Sometimes extremely brutal, or a man maker. I heard that one.
30:24
Speaker 2: Oh I haven't heard a man maker.
30:26
Speaker 3: Oh we have to have an apple box and someone's stand
30:29
Speaker 3: on it.
30:30
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it's so wrong. I've heard that as a
30:36
Speaker 2: tom cruise as well, give me a top cruise off
30:39
Speaker 2: which you just give him a little extra height.
30:41
Speaker 3: Hi.
30:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's brutal, it's brutal. It's look, it's not
30:46
Speaker 2: for the faint of heart being.
30:47
Speaker 3: On that's it's very not pacy.
30:53
Speaker 2: No, it isn't. And that was one thing when I
30:55
Speaker 2: was when I was on set and my wife, who's
30:57
Speaker 2: out of the business completely, she doesn't know anything about
30:59
Speaker 2: it business. She would walk on set while I was directing.
31:02
Speaker 2: She's like, how how is this? How is that loud?
31:07
Speaker 2: How is everyone not being sued left and right for
31:11
Speaker 2: what's happening being said? And this is all before me too,
31:16
Speaker 2: before all that stuff, And I would just say, I
31:19
Speaker 2: just said, like, it's just kind of you know, it
31:22
Speaker 2: was the culture. It was the culture, and it is look,
31:25
Speaker 2: you know, to be honest, it is sometimes a toxic culture.
31:28
Speaker 2: There's no question on set a toxic culture. And for
31:32
Speaker 2: females even worse, there's no question. Like I mean, I
31:36
Speaker 2: remember I was on I was on a production I
31:38
Speaker 2: was directing, and I saw a female grip for the
31:40
Speaker 2: first time ever, and she was wonderful by the way
31:43
Speaker 2: she busted her ass and she was great. And I'm like,
31:46
Speaker 2: what does she have to put up with from the
31:49
Speaker 2: grip department to hang with the grips? YEA nine in
31:55
Speaker 2: two thousand and one? Can you want me? Do you
31:59
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying? Tough? So it's but it's it's
32:03
Speaker 2: it is. You know, there's a lot of male testosterone
32:05
Speaker 2: running on set generally much. Yes, it has changed a bit,
32:09
Speaker 2: and I think it is changing for the better. Yes,
32:12
Speaker 2: But you know, I've talked to female dps. I hadn't
32:14
Speaker 2: seen I honestly didn't see a female DP until maybe
32:17
Speaker 2: like eight nine years ago. Like on set, it was
32:22
Speaker 2: just not a thing that you saw very often. But
32:24
Speaker 2: now it's becoming more prevalent, and females are becoming you know,
32:27
Speaker 2: and people of color and all this stuff are all
32:29
Speaker 2: coming on set, which is great, but it can be
32:32
Speaker 2: a toxic environment and you, as a as a young
32:35
Speaker 2: PA or young intern coming in, have to be aware
32:38
Speaker 2: of that. But understand that there is there's a little
32:42
Speaker 2: you got to get a little bit of a thick skin. Yeah,
32:45
Speaker 2: in our business, would you agree.
32:47
Speaker 3: Yes, I I completely agree. I especially when you move
32:51
Speaker 3: off the ranks to when you typically get to bigger
32:54
Speaker 3: budgets and stuff, they are run by more older film
32:59
Speaker 3: veterans and they have there's kind of stuck in the past,
33:02
Speaker 3: and so you're dealing with it more and more. So then,
33:05
Speaker 3: like if you're on a student project, everybody is like
33:07
Speaker 3: woke and stuff, you know. But yeah, so so you're
33:11
Speaker 3: you're dealing with that a lot, and and it's it
33:15
Speaker 3: can be extremely frustrating. But you also have to realize
33:18
Speaker 3: that in order for change to happen, you have to educate.
33:21
Speaker 3: So it's a lot of taking that. It is harder
33:25
Speaker 3: to take the time to teach. It's easier to keep
33:29
Speaker 3: the same doing the same thing, or yell at somebody
33:31
Speaker 3: or or or whatever. But it's harder to stop someone
33:36
Speaker 3: and say you shouldn't say that, or like I don't
33:39
Speaker 3: like you know, that's not right to do. So it's
33:41
Speaker 3: it's it's a slow changing process, but it is. It
33:46
Speaker 3: is changing, and it's unfortunately a lot of this is
33:50
Speaker 3: top down you know, and and until there's enough time
33:54
Speaker 3: of cycling to get new people up to the top
33:59
Speaker 3: to trickle down with new ways of thinking and stuff
34:02
Speaker 3: like that, you're going to run into that kind of thinking.
34:06
Speaker 3: You know. It's just it's it's it's not I wouldn't
34:09
Speaker 3: say it's right. It's just a it's a product of
34:11
Speaker 3: the environment in the time period, you know.
34:14
Speaker 2: But yeah, for sure, without question. And there's also another
34:18
Speaker 2: thing that is a culture that happens on set, especially
34:22
Speaker 2: if it's it depends on who's running the set as
34:25
Speaker 2: far as either first a d director DPS as well,
34:29
Speaker 2: but there's you know, it can be stressful.
34:32
Speaker 3: It's extremely stressful.
34:34
Speaker 2: The set can be a little stressful. And every once
34:38
Speaker 2: in a while you'll get a veteran who's just really
34:41
Speaker 2: comfortable with themselves who will play practical jokes on SETU
34:45
Speaker 2: to kind of release the tension. And my favorite is
34:48
Speaker 2: my deep a friend, a good friend of my DP,
34:51
Speaker 2: old veteran guy. He would always have a broken lens
34:53
Speaker 2: in his kit and first a SEE or second a
34:58
Speaker 2: C would come up and he would just throw throw
35:00
Speaker 2: it at him and it was like a zeiss, you know,
35:02
Speaker 2: like oh my god, and throw it at him. Ok here,
35:06
Speaker 2: put this on the camera and throw it right at
35:08
Speaker 2: him in front of everybody, and oh my god, and
35:11
Speaker 2: you just see this guy's face just white, just drained,
35:16
Speaker 2: like the blood drein and hot, and he falls and
35:19
Speaker 2: it cracks. And then he would play it up. He's like,
35:21
Speaker 2: how could you drop? You've cracked my lens. That's a
35:24
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars lens.
35:26
Speaker 1: Whatdy?
35:27
Speaker 2: And everyone's just trying to hold it in. And before
35:29
Speaker 2: the kid has an absolute heart attack, they let him.
35:32
Speaker 2: They let him go. So it's almost like a coming
35:34
Speaker 2: of age kind of like almost mafia esque, like I
35:37
Speaker 2: come over here. It's an initiation, like you're good now, kid,
35:41
Speaker 2: come on in. He used to also have an old
35:44
Speaker 2: This is when we used to shoot film of film
35:46
Speaker 2: reel with exposed film.
35:49
Speaker 3: Oh no, he could throw the.
35:51
Speaker 2: Reel at the kid and the film would call over
35:53
Speaker 2: the place and they would just like, oh my god,
35:55
Speaker 2: that was today's daily. He said, like, oh that. People
35:57
Speaker 2: would just these little things in this apartments. Sometimes you'll
36:02
Speaker 2: see that, yeah, in the in front of the whole step.
36:05
Speaker 2: But with in departments there's like little not say hazing,
36:09
Speaker 2: but just fun, you know, things.
36:11
Speaker 3: To concl jokes. Yeah, I thought you were gonna say
36:13
Speaker 3: tea stop. That's a poss uh where they send the
36:17
Speaker 3: second AC to go find tea stops. Yeah, I've had
36:21
Speaker 3: I've seen that happen in the second ACA, like looking
36:24
Speaker 3: the entire day for tea stops and can't find it.
36:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been looking for t stops. I've called everywhere.
36:29
Speaker 2: No one has stops stop. So I had once. I
36:34
Speaker 2: had once. I was when I was in school. Uh,
36:37
Speaker 2: some old Grizzly Post online editor like you know, TV
36:42
Speaker 2: guy and some some producer. She came in like a
36:46
Speaker 2: just a battle ram and was busting's everyone's just being
36:50
Speaker 2: a complete ass. And I was there as an intern
36:53
Speaker 2: watching this and and the editor goes, oh god, and
36:59
Speaker 2: she was god of footage from the day before, Like,
37:01
Speaker 2: oh God, what happened. She's like, what happened? What happened?
37:03
Speaker 2: She's like, you know, if they would have done double
37:05
Speaker 2: double drop frame, it would have been better. So it
37:08
Speaker 2: would have just really started up the image quality of
37:11
Speaker 2: so you need double double drop frame timecode. And she's
37:15
Speaker 2: like okay. So she went on the next day to
37:18
Speaker 2: set and she just ripped every Why aren't we shooting
37:22
Speaker 2: double double. I want my image to be. She was like,
37:27
Speaker 2: and everyone was just like, did you talk to Henry?
37:30
Speaker 2: Because everyone knew everyone knew Henry did it? Because they're
37:33
Speaker 2: all like, yeah, She's like, Henry got in trouble, but
37:38
Speaker 2: he didn't care. He had job security. But these are
37:41
Speaker 2: the kind of things that you know, they're so high
37:45
Speaker 2: strung pas and interns sometimes that you got to kind
37:48
Speaker 2: of loosen them up a little bit because it's just
37:50
Speaker 2: like and also, by the way, when you're that high strung,
37:53
Speaker 2: that's when accidents happen, and that's when mistakes happen, and
37:56
Speaker 2: you got to loose them up, loosen them up just
37:58
Speaker 2: a bit, just just a little bit. Now you've been
38:02
Speaker 2: on set a while, Now, what was the worst day
38:06
Speaker 2: on set for you? And how did you overcome it?
38:11
Speaker 3: I would say one of the worst days was this
38:15
Speaker 3: happened not too long ago, about two years ago. I
38:17
Speaker 3: think two years when was snowvid in Austin, Texas, un
38:22
Speaker 3: the snow apocalypse that happened ice I've only been hearing, Okay,
38:28
Speaker 3: I think this was two years ago and Austin had
38:31
Speaker 3: a freak snowstorm. Uh and this was I mean, I
38:36
Speaker 3: think this.
38:37
Speaker 2: Was it would be January. It'd be January February.
38:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was what it was. It was January, yeah, February,
38:43
Speaker 3: and the producers were refusing to shut down the set
38:48
Speaker 3: because because where we were currently there was no snowstorm,
38:54
Speaker 3: yet there was talk of it, and everywhere else in
38:58
Speaker 3: Texas there were pile ups and ice and everything.
39:02
Speaker 2: You mean the one where they froze everything froze out, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:06
Speaker 2: The power grid went down.
39:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, power grid went down and stuff like that was
39:09
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah, and then it
39:13
Speaker 3: we were in the middle of it and it hit,
39:15
Speaker 3: and I just remembered it was both the worst, but
39:20
Speaker 3: also there's elements of it that like were great too.
39:25
Speaker 3: At that point, the I think the crew knew that,
39:30
Speaker 3: like it was beyond my control, even though I tried
39:32
Speaker 3: to call it several times, but you know, ultimately is
39:35
Speaker 3: the producer's call. Still, and every crew member gave me
39:40
Speaker 3: an article of clothing because we were outside and it
39:44
Speaker 3: was really really cold and uh there was snow and
39:47
Speaker 3: it was blizzarding and everything, and like we didn't have
39:52
Speaker 3: enough people. We were moving trucks and it was icy
39:55
Speaker 3: and everything, and luckily it got called late.
40:00
Speaker 2: Or will be right back after a word from our
40:03
Speaker 2: sponsor and now back to the show.
40:10
Speaker 3: By the producers. But it was a constant like just
40:15
Speaker 3: communicating with the crew and being like, hey, I'm sorry,
40:18
Speaker 3: I want to call it. This is the situation like
40:21
Speaker 3: they hopefully will call it you know soon type thing,
40:24
Speaker 3: and just I think it sucked because I just felt
40:29
Speaker 3: powerless in that situation to ensure the safety, you know,
40:34
Speaker 3: of my crew and and and the way I dealt
40:37
Speaker 3: with it was just constantly talking to the crew, giving
40:42
Speaker 3: them like a play by play of what's going on
40:45
Speaker 3: from top down. I kind of did a little hint
40:49
Speaker 3: hint like if you want to leave, I am not
40:52
Speaker 3: going to stop you type thing, you know, but I
40:56
Speaker 3: your safety is portant. I think it's important, and you know,
41:01
Speaker 3: please do what you think is the most important type thing.
41:04
Speaker 3: But I am under this is what's happening from top
41:07
Speaker 3: down type thing. And to be put in that situation
41:12
Speaker 3: really sucked because it's people safety and when you have
41:19
Speaker 3: no power, I have no power to ensure I can
41:24
Speaker 3: say I walk, you know, but like that also is
41:26
Speaker 3: not good for the crew either, you know. I'm then
41:29
Speaker 3: they don't have the one person that's vouching for them,
41:32
Speaker 3: you know.
41:32
Speaker 2: There.
41:34
Speaker 3: So it was a lot of like, hey, this is
41:36
Speaker 3: what's going on. This is the play by play. If
41:41
Speaker 3: you were to walk, I'm not going to stop you
41:44
Speaker 3: from it, and I support it type thing and and
41:46
Speaker 3: hopefully they're going to call it. They eventually did call it,
41:48
Speaker 3: but it But I think despite that really shitty moment feeling,
41:56
Speaker 3: you know, having the crew each I tell you, each
41:59
Speaker 3: department gave me an article clothing so that I wouldn't
42:02
Speaker 3: like freeze death. But like somebody gave me a hat.
42:05
Speaker 3: Someone gave me, you know, a jacket, a jacket that
42:08
Speaker 3: was happened to be in their car. Someone gat I
42:10
Speaker 3: looked like this big ass like marshmallow, with like fifty
42:13
Speaker 3: layers of clothing because we were outside and the snow
42:15
Speaker 3: was blowing at us and we were not prepared. We
42:19
Speaker 3: were not none of us. Yeah, none of us were prepared.
42:22
Speaker 3: And then then to have later on the director who
42:31
Speaker 3: doesn't understand you know that we were doing our best
42:34
Speaker 3: to to to make it happen like essentially blame you
42:38
Speaker 3: for a snowstorm and that everything was a chit show.
42:43
Speaker 3: But to then to have crew be like to stand
42:46
Speaker 3: behind you and say, yeah, it is a shit show
42:50
Speaker 3: because nobody that should have been called, you know, was
42:53
Speaker 3: like nice to have that support, but like that, it's
42:57
Speaker 3: just that was a terrible situation to be And when
43:00
Speaker 3: when when people's safety isn't being taken into concern and
43:05
Speaker 3: your whole job as an ad is to ensure the
43:09
Speaker 3: livelihood and safety of your crew and you're powerless to
43:13
Speaker 3: do so. I think that that is a terrible, terrible
43:16
Speaker 3: place to be in.
43:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that is. That's not a good place, which
43:19
Speaker 2: actually leads me into my next question. Are there signs
43:23
Speaker 2: that interns, young interns and PA's and other crew members
43:27
Speaker 2: can actually see when a production is going down quickly?
43:34
Speaker 2: You could say like this this thing You're like, hey,
43:36
Speaker 2: today's not hey whoa whoa whoa whoa. Uh, We're going
43:41
Speaker 2: to work eighteen hours today and I get paid?
43:43
Speaker 3: Like what are those signs signs?
43:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well there's little things that you just can start
43:49
Speaker 2: you and I could smell the pretty Yeah, morale is.
43:55
Speaker 3: A big indicator in my opinion. Sure, there's some people
44:01
Speaker 3: who are crankier than other people in tolerance is lower,
44:04
Speaker 3: but I think when you start to have when departments
44:10
Speaker 3: start to talk amongst each other and yeah, and you
44:16
Speaker 3: can feel an overall dissatisfaction, that's usually a problem. Or
44:25
Speaker 3: I feel like if the calture keeps changing a lot,
44:31
Speaker 3: that's usually not a good indicator either. When there are
44:38
Speaker 3: when there's a lot of unnecessary people just yeah, that's
44:42
Speaker 3: also just moral. When people are angry and just you
44:47
Speaker 3: known to each other. Yeah, I think those are pretty
44:53
Speaker 3: big indicators as well. Or when you have locations or
44:58
Speaker 3: people who are separate from the production show up randomly
45:03
Speaker 3: and they're not happy, that's usually not a good indicator either,
45:07
Speaker 3: because that means something wasn't cleared somehow and things are
45:11
Speaker 3: about to go crazy.
45:14
Speaker 2: So let me ask you this. So because the director
45:17
Speaker 2: obviously is should be the leader of the ship, the
45:20
Speaker 2: leader of the captain of the ship. We're moving things forward,
45:23
Speaker 2: everybody moves around. What the director is he or she's
45:28
Speaker 2: ideas of what going going on? Yes, in theory, in theory,
45:31
Speaker 2: in theory, very very much in theory. Uh, that's that's
45:35
Speaker 2: very loose flair fluid. They're fluid, if you will, But
45:39
Speaker 2: generally speaking in a perf when you're on a Ridley
45:41
Speaker 2: Scott set, Yes, Ridley runs the show. Let's just throw
45:46
Speaker 2: that out there, as simple as that. All Right, So
45:49
Speaker 2: when you have that situation, what are signs that you
45:53
Speaker 2: don't have a good leader on the set. What are
45:57
Speaker 2: things that you've seen, because I'm assuming you've seen one
46:00
Speaker 2: or two bad directors in your day, you have not
46:03
Speaker 2: only hurt the production but taken out, you know, just
46:07
Speaker 2: not understand how the system works that they have to
46:11
Speaker 2: make their day. Yeah, we can't spend five hours in
46:15
Speaker 2: the Scorsese shot because we're not Scorsese and we don't
46:17
Speaker 2: have the budget that we have, so we had like
46:19
Speaker 2: how all these kind of things I'm imagining. You know,
46:22
Speaker 2: as AD, you've seen directors come up with shot lists,
46:24
Speaker 2: which is, by the way, my favorite thing to do
46:26
Speaker 2: with When I work with AD for the first time,
46:28
Speaker 2: show up day one, one hundred and fifty shots, one
46:30
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty shots, and I just hand it to
46:32
Speaker 2: them and they're just like, no, no, no, that you
46:36
Speaker 2: should just see what because it depends. Then that also
46:39
Speaker 2: tells me what kind of AD it is. If the
46:41
Speaker 2: AD is going to come up to me and go,
46:42
Speaker 2: we got to talk about this man, there's just no
46:44
Speaker 2: f and way we're gonna And I'm like that's good,
46:47
Speaker 2: or you know we're gonna give it a shot. I'm like, okay,
46:49
Speaker 2: I know which way, which kind of a D and
46:52
Speaker 2: I want the first one. I want the one that
46:53
Speaker 2: says there's no f and way we're gonna do this,
46:56
Speaker 2: but let's figure it out and let's figure it out
46:58
Speaker 2: what And I go, don't I always do that? Let's
47:02
Speaker 2: see how fast we can move. I know I'll probably
47:05
Speaker 2: only end up fifteen or twenty of those shots. Yeah,
47:07
Speaker 2: And then once I say that, they're like, okay'se not nuts.
47:13
Speaker 2: But I'm assuming you've had that shot list or that storyboard.
47:16
Speaker 2: So how do you how do you see? What are
47:18
Speaker 2: those things about? What are the signs in a director
47:21
Speaker 2: that you can see that they just not they're in
47:24
Speaker 2: over their head.
47:26
Speaker 3: Ah. I think when the crew starts to lose respect
47:30
Speaker 3: for the director, and how I see it is when
47:33
Speaker 3: it goes from let's see what the director wants to
47:37
Speaker 3: what do you want? And I'm like, wait, wait, wait,
47:40
Speaker 3: I'm not the director, I'm the ad. When they start
47:43
Speaker 3: to look at for a new leader, that's a problem.
47:47
Speaker 3: So which happens a lot, and.
47:49
Speaker 2: It could be the first idea or the DP. Those
47:51
Speaker 2: are the generally the two that they go.
47:53
Speaker 3: Too, Yeah, exactly. And so once I'm Mike, why are
47:56
Speaker 3: the numbers of questions directed at me have increased signific
48:00
Speaker 3: That's when I'm like, ah, okay, or they start questioning
48:04
Speaker 3: why a lot instead of being like Okay, that's what
48:08
Speaker 3: they want, let's do this, or like or the eye
48:11
Speaker 3: roll like oh they want this, okay, you know type thing.
48:15
Speaker 3: That's yeah, the side conversations whatever gets talked on on
48:22
Speaker 3: channel two, uh W. When you you can really quickly
48:29
Speaker 3: pick out when people have stopped. It's or when people
48:34
Speaker 3: are trying to leave as soon as possible after a
48:37
Speaker 3: set has wrapped or hasn't wrapped, or they're planning on
48:40
Speaker 3: which bar to go to afterwards and that is the
48:43
Speaker 3: only thing keeping them from walking off of the set.
48:46
Speaker 3: That's when you realize that the director has lost the crew.
48:50
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's I think it's when concerns that are
48:58
Speaker 3: being bypassed because I'm the director and not even considered
49:04
Speaker 3: get bypassed a certain number of times. That's when you
49:07
Speaker 3: really lose the crew as well. You know, like, hey,
49:10
Speaker 3: we can't do this because and then like whatever, like
49:13
Speaker 3: I'm the director, make it happen. You know type thing
49:15
Speaker 3: that's if you do this so many times, like you're
49:18
Speaker 3: going to lose the crew because that is a quick
49:22
Speaker 3: indicator that you have no understanding of why their job
49:27
Speaker 3: is important or why their job takes a certain amount
49:31
Speaker 3: of time, and why you're glossing over it. You know.
49:37
Speaker 3: I see this happen a lot with specific positions. Positions
49:43
Speaker 3: for it is that usually are like makeup is a
49:47
Speaker 3: big one, art things like that.
49:51
Speaker 2: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor
49:57
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
50:01
Speaker 3: It doesn't happen as much with camera or even sound,
50:05
Speaker 3: because I think it's that's when people, especially first time directors,
50:11
Speaker 3: when they go on to direct, there's a very easy
50:15
Speaker 3: understanding of like, hey, if we don't have the right
50:18
Speaker 3: camera setup, you're not going to get your shot right.
50:21
Speaker 3: But the other positions are harder to understand the importance
50:24
Speaker 3: of unless you have done a few films or or
50:30
Speaker 3: you've worked on a set enough to understand the importance of.
50:34
Speaker 3: And I think that's the issue is that new directors
50:38
Speaker 3: who haven't come up the ranks or worked in a position.
50:41
Speaker 3: It's perspective, and when you lack perspective and don't respect
50:48
Speaker 3: all the positions on set. You will lose your crew,
50:52
Speaker 3: and you will lose your crew and they will start
50:55
Speaker 3: to look for a new leader in that leader is
50:59
Speaker 3: usually the DP or the AD so and so when
51:03
Speaker 3: I start to get hey, what do you think we
51:05
Speaker 3: should do about this?
51:06
Speaker 2: Or actor?
51:06
Speaker 3: Oh man, if talent is coming to you, that's a
51:10
Speaker 3: bad thing. Yeah, yeah, that is very bad. Like crew okay,
51:16
Speaker 3: because usually the AD has interfaced with the crew so
51:19
Speaker 3: that you know, there's a certain extent that that's understandable.
51:22
Speaker 3: But I think when the talent no longer goes to
51:27
Speaker 3: the director and goes to you, the AD, that is
51:31
Speaker 3: a big and dictator that things are going downhill fast. Yeah,
51:35
Speaker 3: because the talent should never really need to talk to
51:38
Speaker 3: the AD. The whole job of a director is to
51:43
Speaker 3: help talk to the talent. So at the talent. So
51:47
Speaker 3: I revised put that first. When the talent is talking
51:50
Speaker 3: to the AD hoc or the DP, talking to any
51:55
Speaker 3: other crew member about their performance or what they're supposed
51:58
Speaker 3: to do, that and it's not the director jump ships run.
52:05
Speaker 2: Another thing is too that I think filmmakers listening don't
52:08
Speaker 2: understand is the importance of feeding the crew and feeding
52:12
Speaker 2: them well and taking care of them and having surprise,
52:16
Speaker 2: you know, in between meals, like hey, you know, guys,
52:19
Speaker 2: we didn't we didn't we didn't budget for a full dinner,
52:22
Speaker 2: but we're going to do a walking dinner, you know,
52:24
Speaker 2: or something like that, where you know, they go out
52:25
Speaker 2: and get some burritos or something to kind of hold
52:29
Speaker 2: them over until they can get to the bar. Yeah,
52:32
Speaker 2: it's something, but that's something that it's almost a second
52:34
Speaker 2: thought to young filmmakers, so like, oh, yeah, I just
52:37
Speaker 2: get a bunch of pizzas and like that. Pizzas kill production.
52:42
Speaker 2: It slows everything down. Spinning, it slows it down everyone.
52:47
Speaker 2: It's stuffed on cheese and bread and things like that.
52:50
Speaker 2: I remember an old you remember Dove Simmons. He ran
52:55
Speaker 2: a course called the Two Day Film School, and he
52:57
Speaker 2: was like this just Roger Korman upm and oh my god,
53:05
Speaker 2: the stories he would say. And he's like, I don't
53:07
Speaker 2: have a lot of sugary stuff on my crafty table
53:11
Speaker 2: because it will cause sugar rushes. And if it caused
53:14
Speaker 2: sugar rushes, if there's tension, fights will break out. These
53:18
Speaker 2: are little things that you're just like I was. My
53:20
Speaker 2: mind got blown when I heard these things coming up.
53:22
Speaker 2: I was like, wow, I just never thought about it.
53:24
Speaker 2: He goes in, God forbid if you bring pizza onto
53:27
Speaker 2: a set, God damn, Like like, yeah, am I wrong.
53:32
Speaker 3: No, you're not. And if you're been on set a
53:35
Speaker 3: while and you're really good at your job, you can
53:38
Speaker 3: start These are the details you notice that you planned for.
53:41
Speaker 3: Like I I can tell like from line I'm like, Okay,
53:44
Speaker 3: we had this, Therefore I need to build an extra
53:46
Speaker 3: an hour before we're going to start getting how we're
53:49
Speaker 3: going to start moving, Like I like, these are the
53:53
Speaker 3: little details where you're like, oh, we ate that, Okay,
53:55
Speaker 3: well the bathroom, the situation is going to be a
53:58
Speaker 3: whole thing.
53:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's just like burritos.
54:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you start noticing all these little details.
54:07
Speaker 2: I had a friend of mine on a He was
54:10
Speaker 2: on the set of twenty four. He was a production
54:12
Speaker 2: designer in twenty four and I went on just to
54:16
Speaker 2: visit him and we were working on a project together,
54:17
Speaker 2: and I just went on to visit the set. And
54:20
Speaker 2: when you walk on set, I just saw crafty. Was
54:24
Speaker 2: the most insane crafty I've ever seen in my life.
54:29
Speaker 2: And then I stayed for lunch and there's Lobster Tale
54:32
Speaker 2: and Stay, and I'm like, what is what is this? Like?
54:37
Speaker 2: I lived in the indie world, and I was like,
54:40
Speaker 2: because at that level, you've got to that's just that's
54:44
Speaker 2: just the way businesses run.
54:47
Speaker 3: But it's nuts, though, it seems when you first get
54:50
Speaker 3: on it's nuts. Yeah. I remember the first Unions that
54:53
Speaker 3: I got on. It was in Texas twenty sixteen, and
54:58
Speaker 3: I had only done indies before that, and I yeah,
55:01
Speaker 3: you look at the craft services table and you're like, Wow,
55:04
Speaker 3: this is the entire budget of my film right here,
55:07
Speaker 3: sitting here as Yeah.
55:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, can you imagine a Marvel set? I can only
55:12
Speaker 2: imagine a Marvel set, like a two hundred million dollar
55:15
Speaker 2: movie I haven't been on a two hundred million dollar
55:16
Speaker 2: movie set, not either, you know, just can you imagine
55:19
Speaker 2: the amount of test ah? You know, it's it's insane.
55:24
Speaker 2: I can't even I can't even imagine. Now there's one
55:26
Speaker 2: thing that and this is one thing that you can
55:30
Speaker 2: get really in trouble for as a PA and an intern,
55:34
Speaker 2: and it's something that no one talks to you about.
55:36
Speaker 2: Eye line, oh sitting eye. If Christian Bale's situation with
55:43
Speaker 2: Shane Olbert, thought does anything and I don't think that
55:47
Speaker 2: conversation was so much about the eye line. I think
55:49
Speaker 2: it was other things going on. And then and by
55:52
Speaker 2: the way, if you guys don't know what I'm talking about,
55:53
Speaker 2: just google Christian Bale on set. It's genius, especially the remixes.
56:00
Speaker 2: But and by the way, Christian Bale had been on
56:04
Speaker 2: set since he was like seven yea or five, so
56:07
Speaker 2: he's been it's not like he's new to his set.
56:09
Speaker 2: Can you explain to everybody what an eye line is
56:12
Speaker 2: and how to avoid getting yelled at by talent, which
56:16
Speaker 2: is the worst thing other than being yelled at by
56:20
Speaker 2: the director or any of the other crew members, Like,
56:22
Speaker 2: if you're being yelled at by talent.
56:23
Speaker 3: It's back the super public.
56:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much almost gone guarantee.
56:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, So an eyeline is like whenever an actor is acting,
56:35
Speaker 3: there's a specific area where no matter if you're standing
56:39
Speaker 3: in that spot eye line, it's hard for the actor
56:43
Speaker 3: to not to they will definitely see you. And that's
56:47
Speaker 3: extremely distracting. So we are always trying to crew andever
56:52
Speaker 3: and it's if you've don't enough, if you just know
56:56
Speaker 3: to you know, stand in us for the usually where
56:59
Speaker 3: the video villages or something like that, or in the shadows,
57:03
Speaker 3: because if you think about it, if you're trying to
57:08
Speaker 3: if you've ever tried to focus on anything, and you're
57:11
Speaker 3: trying to be in a difficult emotional spot and you
57:16
Speaker 3: can't because a fly is flying around you. That's what
57:21
Speaker 3: it feels like when somebody is standing in someone's eyeline,
57:25
Speaker 3: and so it's kind of a it's a frame a
57:27
Speaker 3: vision where you will see that person. If you're in
57:32
Speaker 3: that frame a vision, that's the eye line, and so
57:35
Speaker 3: you're mate and you will accidentally send the eyeline and
57:40
Speaker 3: that's when you'll see people look at their look at
57:43
Speaker 3: the ground, be a tree, you know, like try to
57:48
Speaker 3: not move around so that you're not being a distraction
57:52
Speaker 3: to the performance. And it's very easy to do. And
57:57
Speaker 3: the you know, the best way to do it is
58:01
Speaker 3: in general, wherever the camera is and where the action
58:09
Speaker 3: is being directed. If you're kind of in that besides
58:11
Speaker 3: the director and the DP and stuff like that, you
58:14
Speaker 3: try to stay away from that area. And and courtesy
58:19
Speaker 3: of asking somebody you know, the talent a it's or
58:23
Speaker 3: is this good spot or whatever. But if you can
58:26
Speaker 3: see the actor and you can make eye contact with
58:29
Speaker 3: that actor, you are in their eyeline. Move move, yeah,
58:32
Speaker 3: So if you if they're that's the best way. If
58:34
Speaker 3: you can watch the scene and you realize, oh shit,
58:38
Speaker 3: the actor steering directly at me, you are in their eyeline.
58:42
Speaker 3: If you can make eye contact with anybody who's acting
58:45
Speaker 3: that is within their eyeline.
58:48
Speaker 2: So and then also the other part that kind of
58:51
Speaker 2: tag on to that is being in the shot. How
58:57
Speaker 2: many times have you seen the first day PA or
59:01
Speaker 2: intern has no clue about anything on a set and
59:06
Speaker 2: they're just literally sitting in the back in the middle
59:11
Speaker 2: of the shot when the director yells action and you
59:14
Speaker 2: can just see them like this, like, I got a
59:16
Speaker 2: good I got a good seat for this shot. Yeah,
59:18
Speaker 2: because you're in it and like, and you hear the
59:21
Speaker 2: DP or camera or the director or the first d
59:25
Speaker 2: D shot, who get that guy out of this shot? Like,
59:28
Speaker 2: and you just like and you just start freaking out.
59:30
Speaker 2: Oh god, I've seen that happen too many times, even
59:33
Speaker 2: if I see it on my set before we got
59:35
Speaker 2: just can you get that guy out of the shot please.
59:38
Speaker 2: If I'm in a great mood, if I'm not in
59:40
Speaker 2: a b if if it's a rough day, I'm going
59:42
Speaker 2: to get out of my shot. Yes, So please just
59:47
Speaker 2: be aware of your surroundings.
59:49
Speaker 3: Aware of your surroundings. Yes.
59:51
Speaker 2: And also that's a day that's a safety thing because
59:54
Speaker 2: some crazy stuff could be happening, the stunts could be
59:56
Speaker 2: going on. We'll be right back after for a word
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Speaker 2: from our sponsor, and now back to the show. A
1:00:08
Speaker 2: crane could be coming down. Please be aware of your
1:00:11
Speaker 2: surroundings and what's going on on set. And I know
1:00:13
Speaker 2: that's the job of a first a d to kind
1:00:15
Speaker 2: of let everybody, especially if there's a weapon on set
1:00:18
Speaker 2: or there's a stunt going on on set, you know,
1:00:21
Speaker 2: But I.
1:00:21
Speaker 3: Think you bring up a good point. I think the
1:00:24
Speaker 3: thing is that a film is a collaborative thing and
1:00:28
Speaker 3: it's up to everyone to kind of do their part
1:00:31
Speaker 3: and be hyper aware. So with like safety, anything with safety,
1:00:35
Speaker 3: I always tell everyone on set, like, hey, I won't
1:00:39
Speaker 3: be mad at you if you double check my triple
1:00:42
Speaker 3: check whatever I'm talking about when it comes to safety.
1:00:45
Speaker 3: If the crew comes up and it's like, hey, could
1:00:48
Speaker 3: we do the gun safety again, could you shout out
1:00:52
Speaker 3: again that the street is locked or that the street
1:00:56
Speaker 3: is live or something like that, I'm not going to
1:00:59
Speaker 3: sure under stressful situations, I might like appear stressed about it,
1:01:07
Speaker 3: but like I would rather somebody triple double check my
1:01:12
Speaker 3: work when it comes to anything that has to do
1:01:15
Speaker 3: with safety. And yeah, no, but I think collectively as
1:01:22
Speaker 3: a group, that's the only way for everybody to stay safe.
1:01:26
Speaker 3: Is that if we kind of like a check and
1:01:27
Speaker 3: balance system. You know, there is a hierarchy, but people
1:01:31
Speaker 3: make mistakes, especially we throw them under that much stress
1:01:36
Speaker 3: and limited time and limited resources and stuff like that.
1:01:39
Speaker 3: I think it's up to the entire team to look
1:01:43
Speaker 3: out for each other. So so everybody should be as
1:01:47
Speaker 3: hyper aware as possible, but it is so easy to
1:01:51
Speaker 3: become my opic, especially with what you're focused on in
1:01:56
Speaker 3: doing and so yeah, no, it's I just think any
1:02:03
Speaker 3: any and this has nothing to do with the hierarchy.
1:02:06
Speaker 3: I think anybody should be looking out for their fellow
1:02:09
Speaker 3: man woman set, you know.
1:02:12
Speaker 2: No question, and it has to be brought. Yeah, there's
1:02:15
Speaker 2: you know, obviously there's you know some some tragedies have
1:02:18
Speaker 2: happened in recent years about about on set safety and
1:02:21
Speaker 2: issues that that are horrible and it happens, you know,
1:02:25
Speaker 2: stunts go wrong, things happen. I think it's really about
1:02:28
Speaker 2: safety and trying to like you say, everybody's responsibility to
1:02:32
Speaker 2: say if see something, say something.
1:02:34
Speaker 3: Say something, yeah, say something, say anything.
1:02:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:02:38
Speaker 3: It's it can be hard to to in any group setting.
1:02:41
Speaker 3: Group think is a thing. So it'd be like, oh, well,
1:02:45
Speaker 3: somebody else will bring this up or some you know,
1:02:48
Speaker 3: but I don't think you should. Nobody should ever assume
1:02:50
Speaker 3: that you know type thing. So it's better to like
1:02:53
Speaker 3: be annoying and have five people bring it up. Then
1:02:57
Speaker 3: like nobody bring up and then something happens.
1:02:59
Speaker 2: You know, agreed one hundred percent. Now I think it's
1:03:02
Speaker 2: appropriate to start wrapping up our conversation with what is
1:03:07
Speaker 2: an abby singer and a Martini shot? Because it's again
1:03:13
Speaker 2: Carney language. Nobody understands anybody, any normy. He's out there
1:03:17
Speaker 2: with like what the heck an abby singer and market?
1:03:20
Speaker 2: So can we take what an abby singer is and
1:03:22
Speaker 2: what a Martini shot is for everybody?
1:03:24
Speaker 3: So an Abby singer is the second to last setup
1:03:27
Speaker 3: of the day, and people are usually very excited because
1:03:30
Speaker 3: it's indicator that we will almost go home. Sometimes it
1:03:35
Speaker 3: can be you know, uh, misnomer because sure, maybe that
1:03:39
Speaker 3: second last setup takes forever and you might do like
1:03:42
Speaker 3: ten takes of it, but it is just a nice
1:03:45
Speaker 3: morale booster knowing that this is the second to last shot.
1:03:50
Speaker 3: And the reason why it's called Abby Singers. Abby Singer
1:03:53
Speaker 3: is actually a a d I believe, and he was
1:03:58
Speaker 3: famous for saying, all right, that was great, but then
1:04:01
Speaker 3: you would say, but let's do it again type thing,
1:04:04
Speaker 3: so and one more, Let's do one more and so
1:04:06
Speaker 3: they coined the term Abby Singer after him because at
1:04:12
Speaker 3: any time it felt like they're about to finish, another
1:04:16
Speaker 3: thing was added right before it, so it was one
1:04:18
Speaker 3: more before Abby Singer and the Martini. Uh, depending on
1:04:23
Speaker 3: where you are. Some people in Texas have tried to
1:04:26
Speaker 3: make it the Margarita or the Texas Martini or whatever.
1:04:30
Speaker 3: But it's the last setup of the day, the Martini,
1:04:34
Speaker 3: and it's important in it's when you've been on say
1:04:38
Speaker 3: you hear it called out. Uh. I'm always trying to
1:04:42
Speaker 3: anticipate the Abby Singer and the Martini because these are
1:04:46
Speaker 3: indicators of letting departments know they can start to slowly
1:04:52
Speaker 3: wrap up stuff. Because you know, anytime you've been anywhere,
1:04:56
Speaker 3: you kind of like move in and you spread out
1:04:59
Speaker 3: and you you're things get bigger and bigger and bigger.
1:05:02
Speaker 3: Spread out in space and having some extra time to
1:05:09
Speaker 3: slowly pack up your stuff and really make the exit
1:05:13
Speaker 3: of off the set that much faster and more efficient.
1:05:16
Speaker 3: So I'm always in veteran crew members will get annoyed
1:05:21
Speaker 3: if you don't call them because call the Abby Singer
1:05:25
Speaker 3: or the Martini because they're like, I could have been,
1:05:27
Speaker 3: you know, wrapping stuff, and now I have to after
1:05:31
Speaker 3: wrap spend an extra thirty minutes I could have been
1:05:34
Speaker 3: doing in between setups, you know.
1:05:36
Speaker 2: Having my team. I'm having my team wrap up things
1:05:39
Speaker 2: that are that that other setup break out the setups
1:05:42
Speaker 2: right right right, I suppose everyone's sitting around waiting for it,
1:05:45
Speaker 2: just in case. Now I'm gonna ask a few questions,
1:05:48
Speaker 2: ask all of my guests, what advice would you give
1:05:51
Speaker 2: a filmmaker trying to break into the business today.
1:05:56
Speaker 3: So I think the device would be to always think
1:06:01
Speaker 3: about what value you can give somebody before you ask
1:06:04
Speaker 3: for value from somebody else. So in any space and time,
1:06:11
Speaker 3: I think if as long as you can be invaluable
1:06:13
Speaker 3: to somebody helping them on their set when you're first
1:06:19
Speaker 3: starting off donating your time, that type of thing that
1:06:23
Speaker 3: pays off. It may not pay off immediately, but you
1:06:27
Speaker 3: never know five years from now that pa that you
1:06:31
Speaker 3: were nice to, that you helped out, could be that
1:06:35
Speaker 3: could be your ticket to another job. And that's not
1:06:38
Speaker 3: why you do that, you know, so don't mistake and oh,
1:06:42
Speaker 3: let's be nice to people so that you know five
1:06:44
Speaker 3: years to be off. Yeah. No, I think that's just
1:06:48
Speaker 3: a principle in life. It's just like people will always
1:06:51
Speaker 3: know after a set is done and it's crazy and
1:06:55
Speaker 3: you've all gone through war together, people will always remember
1:06:59
Speaker 3: how you made them feel. And if you can leave
1:07:04
Speaker 3: a lasting impression of hey, when I dealt with this
1:07:07
Speaker 3: one person, they always made my day better or help
1:07:11
Speaker 3: was helpful or something, you will do great going downline.
1:07:17
Speaker 3: So that's that would if you want to break in,
1:07:20
Speaker 3: I as a veteran, I will hire people who make
1:07:25
Speaker 3: my life easier or just an easier doesn't need necessarily
1:07:29
Speaker 3: mean a skill set easier. Can just be like, hey,
1:07:31
Speaker 3: you made sure I had water the whole day, and
1:07:34
Speaker 3: I you know you made sure that I didn't I
1:07:35
Speaker 3: knew where my keys were the whole day. That you know,
1:07:40
Speaker 3: if I will hire that person over somebody who's had
1:07:44
Speaker 3: five or ten years of experience, that you know doesn't
1:07:47
Speaker 3: who gives me an attitude or whatever, And that's the
1:07:51
Speaker 3: quickest way to get roped in it. Get to be
1:07:54
Speaker 3: in with with people is if you if I can
1:07:58
Speaker 3: feel like I can you have my back right no
1:08:02
Speaker 3: matter what? And so yeah, long story is if you
1:08:07
Speaker 3: can approach everybody as a how can I make your
1:08:12
Speaker 3: life easier? How can I just brighten up your day
1:08:17
Speaker 3: a little bit? I think you'll do just fine.
1:08:21
Speaker 2: So what is the lesson that took you the longest
1:08:24
Speaker 2: to learn, whether in the film business or in life.
1:08:28
Speaker 3: Oh ah, the lesson that took me the longest learn
1:08:35
Speaker 3: ah that it's okay to walk away. I think this
1:08:41
Speaker 3: is and I still struggle with this. I think you'll
1:08:45
Speaker 3: get to a point when you love your career so much,
1:08:50
Speaker 3: and you love your job so much, you will want
1:08:54
Speaker 3: to give everything to it one hundred to a detriment
1:08:58
Speaker 3: to yourself. And you have to realize that if you
1:09:01
Speaker 3: aren't taking care of yourself, you're going to be useless
1:09:05
Speaker 3: to everybody. So that means burning out. That means giving
1:09:09
Speaker 3: more time and over committing and stuff like that, or
1:09:13
Speaker 3: doing projects with people who don't respect you as a
1:09:17
Speaker 3: person or as for your time or your safety or
1:09:20
Speaker 3: your well being, and it is okay to set boundaries
1:09:25
Speaker 3: by walking away and to know that your career is
1:09:28
Speaker 3: not going to go down the waste. You know, it's
1:09:31
Speaker 3: not going to be over just because you wouldn't stand
1:09:35
Speaker 3: for the way you were being treated a certain way
1:09:38
Speaker 3: on set, and you decide to leave. And this is very,
1:09:41
Speaker 3: very very hard to do because when you're on set,
1:09:45
Speaker 3: especially if you're a position like being an ad or whatever,
1:09:48
Speaker 3: you're responsible for many people. It's not just yourself, and
1:09:52
Speaker 3: so when you leave, it feels like you are letting down.
1:09:57
Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
1:10:03
Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
1:10:06
Speaker 3: Not just yourself but everybody else that depends on you.
1:10:10
Speaker 3: But in the end, much though we love our job
1:10:16
Speaker 3: and hopefully it is your passion, it is a job
1:10:20
Speaker 3: and your safety, livelihood and your peace of mind and
1:10:24
Speaker 3: mental health is not worth sticking out just a bit more,
1:10:31
Speaker 3: you know, because that could have long lasting effects, you know,
1:10:35
Speaker 3: for your ability to work later. So that's I still
1:10:39
Speaker 3: I still struggle with this, you know, just walking away
1:10:43
Speaker 3: and being okay to walk away or it's it's hard
1:10:48
Speaker 3: because you in this industry, it will feel like whatever
1:10:56
Speaker 3: opportunity that you have is the only opportunity you'll, oh,
1:11:00
Speaker 3: you'll ever get in career. It will feel that way, right,
1:11:04
Speaker 3: and you know there will be months where you may
1:11:07
Speaker 3: not work, you know, and stuff, And in that moment,
1:11:12
Speaker 3: maybe turning down a one hundred dollars per day, eighteen
1:11:17
Speaker 3: hour job seems stupid because that's one hundred dollars. But
1:11:23
Speaker 3: but you're also setting an expectation, right, So the hope
1:11:29
Speaker 3: is by standing up for not doing that, you are
1:11:34
Speaker 3: enabling other people to also have the power to stand
1:11:39
Speaker 3: up for that, so that it sets a standard that
1:11:41
Speaker 3: that is not how the film industry should operate. You know.
1:11:45
Speaker 3: It's kind of like the whole me too thing too.
1:11:48
Speaker 3: It's like, that's for me. If anybody is disrespectful in
1:11:53
Speaker 3: that way to any of my crew members, I will
1:11:56
Speaker 3: walk no matter what, because I am standing up for
1:11:58
Speaker 3: something and and say setting the precedent that this is
1:12:04
Speaker 3: not okay and ers. And I think it gets hard
1:12:09
Speaker 3: because you'll be on some incredible opportunities and stuff like that,
1:12:13
Speaker 3: and you have to make that decision of is it
1:12:16
Speaker 3: worth this opportunity or is this going to actually be
1:12:20
Speaker 3: damaging you know, in the future or or or dangerous
1:12:24
Speaker 3: or whatnot, you know. So I think that's the that's
1:12:27
Speaker 3: the heart, is walking away. Nobody wants to walk away.
1:12:31
Speaker 2: Especially at the beginning, especially at the beginning, you know.
1:12:34
Speaker 2: And I had to do it so many times and
1:12:36
Speaker 2: with my post, I like literally just turned away, you know,
1:12:40
Speaker 2: one of the biggest music video companies in LA And
1:12:43
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't work with you anymore. You're
1:12:46
Speaker 2: just too abusive. And at a certain point you just
1:12:49
Speaker 2: have to say I'm just going to roll the dice
1:12:51
Speaker 2: and and generally works out. Yeah, it's not you will
1:12:55
Speaker 2: work again. I mean it's it's not like you won't.
1:12:58
Speaker 2: And and if anyone never says you'll never work in
1:13:01
Speaker 2: this town again, that's a guarantee. Will there's nobody that
1:13:06
Speaker 2: means they're so full of themselves. Yeah, it's if it
1:13:10
Speaker 2: starts off with do you know who I am? And
1:13:12
Speaker 2: then goes into.
1:13:15
Speaker 3: I'm the director.
1:13:17
Speaker 2: I'm the director, and I'll make sure you never work
1:13:19
Speaker 2: in this town again. Don't be scared. That's bullshit. That
1:13:24
Speaker 2: doesn't happen. I've never heard of it happening. Ever, anyone
1:13:27
Speaker 2: getting blacklisted, I'm sure it does happen. I've just never
1:13:31
Speaker 2: seen it or heard about it, and especially if you
1:13:34
Speaker 2: haven't done anything wrong, people realize that. And you know,
1:13:37
Speaker 2: no one has that much juice, not in today's world.
1:13:40
Speaker 2: Maybe in the olden days when there was like, you know,
1:13:42
Speaker 2: fifteen productions going on in the entire country at one time,
1:13:46
Speaker 2: you know, but now there's just too much work. And yeah,
1:13:50
Speaker 2: it's yeah.
1:13:52
Speaker 3: Don't compromise your integrity and compromise things like that. I
1:13:57
Speaker 3: think that's the hardest thing is man walking away so
1:13:59
Speaker 3: hard it's like a bad relationship. You know, it's not
1:14:02
Speaker 3: working to break away, but I don't want to break
1:14:04
Speaker 3: up with you, because.
1:14:07
Speaker 2: That's a whole other conversation with a whole other podcast.
1:14:11
Speaker 2: And last question, three of your favorite films of all time?
1:14:16
Speaker 3: H three of my favorite. I mean, it's funny this
1:14:19
Speaker 3: question makes me laugh because all my stuff is not
1:14:23
Speaker 3: very sophisticated. Uh well, I love, uh love, actually fantastic film.
1:14:31
Speaker 2: Second best Christmas movie of all time behind Dieheard. I
1:14:34
Speaker 2: don't know.
1:14:35
Speaker 3: I would argue because then there's the debate of whether
1:14:38
Speaker 3: Diehard is a Christmas movie.
1:14:40
Speaker 2: No, it isn't. We had an episode I had someone,
1:14:44
Speaker 2: I had a researcher come on it has been proven
1:14:46
Speaker 2: by the numbers that Hard is a Christmas movie, but.
1:14:49
Speaker 3: Yeah it is. I love that movie. I love a
1:14:52
Speaker 3: Forrest Gump so epic. It is epic, epic, epic film.
1:14:59
Speaker 3: And then I can watch Shashank Redemption at any time,
1:15:05
Speaker 3: any point, anywhere, if it pops up, I will just
1:15:08
Speaker 3: by myself fixated on it and just watch.
1:15:11
Speaker 2: Stop talking dirty to me. That's that's that's my number
1:15:14
Speaker 2: one Shashank. Everybody, everyone, I know, everybody listening just said,
1:15:18
Speaker 2: oh gosh, Sashank is my number one. Yes it is,
1:15:23
Speaker 2: you know, I just absolutely adore that film. And it
1:15:26
Speaker 2: has so many layers, and it's so deep, and it
1:15:29
Speaker 2: just cuts through so much of the BS and yeah,
1:15:32
Speaker 2: it just it's so it's almost as perfect of a
1:15:34
Speaker 2: film in my opinion as it is.
1:15:36
Speaker 3: And I'll keep watching being like, why is it so perfect?
1:15:39
Speaker 3: And then I'll start watching and then get lost in
1:15:41
Speaker 3: it and then forget that I was watching it to
1:15:43
Speaker 3: try to learn like something from it. I do that
1:15:45
Speaker 3: a lot with good movies.
1:15:47
Speaker 2: And and another one that was the one that he
1:15:49
Speaker 2: did that Frank Darabont did right afterwards, which is Green Mile,
1:15:52
Speaker 2: is another one of those that just yeah, it's it
1:15:55
Speaker 2: just hits just right spot. It hits right spot. Now
1:15:59
Speaker 2: where can people pick up your book? Get red?
1:16:02
Speaker 3: Sure?
1:16:03
Speaker 2: So right now.
1:16:03
Speaker 3: Get realisms dot com is a spot. We haven't branched
1:16:07
Speaker 3: out yet to Amazon. That's a business decision, but yeah,
1:16:12
Speaker 3: get realisms dot com online. I think we also have
1:16:16
Speaker 3: a Etsy store. So if you just google get Realisms
1:16:18
Speaker 3: and make sure the real is our E E L
1:16:22
Speaker 3: you should, you'll be able to find it. Eventually, maybe
1:16:25
Speaker 3: in a year or so, we'll be on Amazon stuff.
1:16:27
Speaker 3: But for now it's a boutique. And uh, it will
1:16:31
Speaker 3: be fun if you ever go into a rental house
1:16:35
Speaker 3: and Austin or I think there's a few now in
1:16:38
Speaker 3: Los Angeles and stuff like that. You see it, take
1:16:40
Speaker 3: a photo. It's always fun for me. But yeah, we're
1:16:45
Speaker 3: but yeah, get realisms dot com is the best way
1:16:48
Speaker 3: to go about getting it.
1:16:50
Speaker 2: Christine, thank you so much for coming on the show
1:16:51
Speaker 2: and for writing this book. And I wish again I
1:16:54
Speaker 2: had this when I was coming up, and it is
1:16:55
Speaker 2: invaluable for anybody being on set. Is a it's a
1:16:59
Speaker 2: serve guide on how to survive on set, just understanding
1:17:03
Speaker 2: It's like the it's like the Resetta stone. Yes, it's
1:17:08
Speaker 2: the resetta stone of film talk on set and how
1:17:12
Speaker 2: to understand it and everything. So I appreciate you, my dear,
1:17:15
Speaker 2: Thank you again for all the hard work.
1:17:16
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
1:17:18
Speaker 2: I want to thank Christine so much for coming on
1:17:20
Speaker 2: the show and dropping her knowledge bombs on the tribe.
1:17:23
Speaker 2: If you want to get links to anything we spoke
1:17:25
Speaker 2: about in this episode, including how to get her book
1:17:28
Speaker 2: on how to Survive on a film set Bulletproof Screenwriting
1:17:32
Speaker 2: dot tv forward slash three eighty. Thank you so much
1:17:35
Speaker 2: for listening. Guys, As always, keep on writing no matter what.
1:17:38
Speaker 2: I'll talk to you soon.
1:17:40
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
1:17:44
Speaker 1: Screenwriting dot tv.