Latest / The Marketing Brief / Caitlin & Brian Discuss Marketing Across Different Industries and the Power of Honesty (S2 E10)
Transcript
- Brian: Hello, and welcome back to the Marketing Brief Podcast. Of course, I'm your host, Brian Aquan. And this is the podcast where we discuss really anything and all things across the marketing landscape. To do that, we always need a guest. And today we're very excited to be joined by CMO extraordinaire, Caitlin Choat, an old friend and someone who I really admire in this space. So thank you for joining us on the podcast, Caitlin. caitlin: Thank you. I I do feel like I just got the like true friend invite to this, and that's why I'm here, but I appreciate you being here nonetheless. Brian: Now it's it's equally your professional status as well. caitlin: Okay, okay. I'll take it. I'll take it. Brian: Yeah. No, I've I've really your your career has been awesome to follow because you've worked at some awesome, awesome brands. Tom's, which we loved as a brand. you started Google, right? Yeah. caitlin: Yep, yep. I I Nest is it was being acquired by Google, which was a really fascinating time because you had this like very Apple culture within Nest. It was like all ex Apple people led by Tony Fidel being acquired by Google. And so that was kind of my first foray into the tech scene was seeing do Google and Apple cultures mix? And they don't. They don't, they don't, but it's an interesting time. It's fun. Yeah. Then Airbnb. Brian: Turns out they don't. And of course you spent many years at Airbnb. caitlin: Yep. Yep. Good long time at Airbnb, which that experience has been really fun to leverage within my current role. It's kind of the first time that I've taken a job that I've kind of done the thing before. I think the red thread across my career has been young company growing really fast, disrupting their industry, but have bounced around many different industries, which I actually think I was talking to somebody the other day about like. how she was thinking about building her career and her trajectory and was kind of asking how I ended up at all of these different places. And so much of it is just luck and the right conversations with the right people. But I find that when you work across a lot of different industries, it's so interesting and stimulating for all of the new things that you learn. Like I know a lot about NFPs and kids' food regulation. I also know a lot about hospitality and the kind of hotel force in New York and how challenging that is to combat. And I know a lot about boating and the fact that it's a Coast Guard rule that you can only have 13 people on a boat. It's not our rule that people get quite upset about. So I think bouncing around industries is really fun, but as a marketer it really forces you to think about fundamentals. Like what is true regardless of what industry you're in. what do you need as a marketer to understand about your consumer, about your playbook, about the landscape, about trends in order to do your job effectively? and so I found it very advantageous that I've kind of moved around a lot. I think it's helped sharpen things in in a lot of ways. Brian: Absolutely. Well, I I love talking about consumer. you brought up that point about kind of feeling lucky and like getting all these different jobs. One of the things we've been exploring on this podcast is relationships shaping opportunity. caitlin: Hm. Brian: and like relationships coming from your community, coming from the people you work with. But do you feel like you've built relationships and then that's opened opportunity for you in your career? caitlin: a hundred percent. that's almost been every role that I've taken was from that. Like I don't know if Any job that I've moved into was because I submitted an application online and talked to a recruiter. even the role that I'm currently in, a friend of mine from Airbnb was on the board of boat setter and like called me one day and was like, You like boats? And I was like, Yeah, I grew up in Florida, I love boats. What are you talking about? and that's how I came into into this role. how I got into Airbnb was actually like a a whole other wild story about You know, actually had a terrible Airbnb experience. They turned it around. I met a lot of great people from Airbnb that I built really quick relationships with and like sent them my resume being like, I don't think you have a job for me, but I love what you're doing. And and you know, then it it turned into a great seven year chapter of my career. Brian: I've done some writing on the hidden job market too, because obviously there's been contraction in our business and lots of people caitlin: Yeah. Brian: looking for jobs. And that's that's it also speaks to that too of just like the I mean, a lot of the jobs you want aren't the ones that they they advertise and put up caitlin: All the things. Brian: because someone's already tried to get that job and moved into it. So you know, working that network is really the best way to to try and find that that that new opportunity. caitlin: Yeah, and I also think within the marketing space, I mean, listen, this is the only industry I've ever worked in. So I don't know what it's like. Maybe the finance group is super tight, but And really willing to help each other. But what I found within the marketing landscape is things change so often. Everybody's having to navigate. I mean, that's been true my entire career. I everybody's like, my God, things are so different. And it's like, if you've been doing this for long enough, you know that things. I mean, when I started my career, it was like there was a new social platform coming out, like every month, it felt like, and you had to figure out how you're adapting to that. So change is kind of part of what we do. And therefore, your relationships within the industry are so important, just as friends to be able to call somebody and be like, Are you guys launching on twit this Twitter thing that we've never heard of before? Like, are you guys doing open AI ads and how are they working for you? And how are you guys thinking about brand measurement today? And I think that that relationship building is so important. I always tell the people young on my team, I'm like, yes, go find a mentor. We should all have mentors. Those are great, but like build those relationships with your peer set. Those will benefit you and pay off for you in ways in your career that you can't imagine. And sometimes it's job opportunity and sometimes it's helping you think through a problem really differently, but it's really important to build the relationships and build the community. Brian: Yeah. I've been I've benefited from it in my career and I'm a competitive person, so it's sometimes tough to to do that. But as with age and with maturity, I understand, hey, caitlin: What's that? Brian: I'm not competing against all of these people. and they can help me. caitlin: No, they want to help you actually. my gosh. They work at your competitor and they want to help you. Cause actually that's like what is the point of all of this? Is to just like continue to be really curious people and expand Brian: Mm-hmm. caitlin: our ways of thinking and put interesting things out in the world. Like that's the point of all of it. Brian: Yeah. Well, you brought up rate of change and you brought up consumer. So I kind of want to tie those together because I think we're at one of these times in our industry where things speed up and a lot is changing and AI is here and it's sh it's disrupting a ton of stuff both on the business side and also how consumers consume. So I guess the question for you is like, as a marketer, as someone who cares about consumer, like how have you adapted to that? rate of change and and things just kind of moving so fast right now. caitlin: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. And I think that there's a really great lesson for marketers, for engineers, for product people, for anybody who's having to kind of wrestle with what AI means for them personally and what it means for them for for their work. And that is you have to truly know something to understand the implications of it. And what I mean by that is like I I have had people on my my team or in my network really resistant to using AI. And I have people who were like vibe coding something within the first month. And running face forward into it, like full on into it, doesn't mean that you love it, doesn't mean that you think it's right, doesn't mean that you think it's what our culture and our society needs, but it means that you will understand it in a way that will allow you to shape how it is leveraged across the board. And so And this very much goes back to like when a new social platform was launching. It was like, just tweet something, figure out how it works, or just try this Instagram thing. Like I I think about some of the like very stupid first posts that I made for Tom at the time when I was like leading social there. Because it was just like you gotta get out there and use these things. And that's what put us on the, you know, the the Leading front of how to use social for a brand and very much like social and community built toms. And I think that's because we were first movers on what is this thing and how can we make it work for our business. And so I think AI is really similar. the other thing that I'll say is, and I think this is like a really important fundamental thing for marketers to remember is don't forget that we are we ourselves are consumers, right? Like your feelings about AI ads, understand what those are, be honest about what those are. Like sometimes they're kind of silly and kind of fun. Sometimes it's like that totally didn't resonate with me at all. And I think marketers need to have a really strong point of view about how humans are going to interpret what we're putting out in the world and what it is going to encourage or persuade them to do. And Brian: Yeah. caitlin: We have to be really honest with ourselves about how we are receiving and interacting with AI generated work out in the world and then like bring that into the way in which we develop our own work that we want to put out. Cause I think it can be really easy to be like, I can look really good in front of my CEO if I say I'm firing my creative agency and I'm gonna make a bunch of AI ads, and you know in the pit of your belly that all of that work is shit or that you wouldn't actually consume it. Like This is where I actually think it's really important for marketers to work at brands that they truly love, where like you are the consumer because that allows you to trust your gut and and have better instincts about what you what you should do on behalf of the brand. Brian: Yeah, being a brand steward is always always helpful. Yeah. And caitlin: Yes. Yes. Brian: that whole idea, I write a lot about authenticity right now. And I think it's it it's what shines through where you live in an increasingly inauthentic world, right? You can caitlin: Yeah. Brian: look at AI slop and like actual like fake stuff that's out there, but then also like just that like every day you're like, is that real? Is that not real? Is that real? Is that not real? And like you said. Marketers are consumers. We should we should treat things as we see them in the world because other consumers are seeing them that way too. So we talk a lot about authenticity. I'm sure it's something that that you want to bring to your advertising. But as you try these things, be a new platform, like you said when you were tweeting for the first time, like doing it with authenticity as a brand is always going to resonate with consumers because you'd be like, Hey, we're trying this out. We're seeing if this works. Consumers are usually with you on that, right? caitlin: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. And and I'll say like for what we do as boat setter and get my boat, trying to get people to spend more time outdoors, spend more time out on the water, have that real experience, like we are selling a real experience. And what I want to reflect back to you, what what I think is best at inviting you into that world is something real. Like we shoot a lot on film and not because it's like trendy. But because it's real and the shot isn't perfect and there's a splash in the thing and the grains a little bit to it, or but there's like a nostalgia for just real and raw and honest. And that is at the end of the day what we are selling. And so we leverage a lot of that in our in our work. And that's one place where, you know, maybe I come across really stubborn in how we want to use AI across our work, but I don't want to use AI to generate visuals. Because we're not selling something manufactured. I am not selling a perfect anything. I am selling a very real, honest experience out in the real world. Go touch grass, go touch water, go cannonball off that boat, go be with your friends. Like that is what we are selling. And there are a lot of places where AI can improve our workflows, can sharpen our thinking. can help us collaborate with other teams. There are like incredible places where AI can be really beneficial, even in generating copy, challenging our our the way that we're writing, sometimes being a really good thought partner, editor from a writing point of view. But when it comes to the things that we are creating to invite people into this real world that we are selling, like we want that to feel really real. Brian: And I I've had a number of creatives on this podcast talking about that very thing. And I love talking to them about AI because it's part of their world, it's part of their production world. But it always kind of comes back to the two things that AI can't do or can't replicate is heart and taste. Right. Like having a human experience is something that humans have. And taste is caitlin: Yeah. Brian: like, what do people want to see? Right? What's ha what's happening right caitlin: Yeah. Brian: now? caitlin: Right, right, right. Yeah. And I I don't know. Maybe it'll get a lot better at that. Maybe we can train it better on taste. Maybe it will understand our emotional needs better. Again, when it comes to like a visual format and again, just what in what we do. I can't go ask AI to make something that hasn't existed before, right? Like Go capture this moment of this couple on a sailboat in the middle of the bay. Like that moment didn't happen. So how can I sell it? You know, like there's this a huge disconnect to that. The other thing that I really feel like AI can't touch is brief writing. And I feel like this is a bit of a hot take because you can really you can ask Claude to write a marketing brief and it'll probably do a pretty good job at it, to be honest. But I think that like the one thing, if there's like one thing that marketers need to be better and better and sharper and sharper at. It's like having a point of view. And the brief is the vessel through which you articulate your point of view. If you're handing that off to AI, like I kind of don't need you here. You know, like like AI is going to be able to do all the other things. Like I need you to understand the temperature in the room today better than ever before. I need you to be really lucid about what is happening in the world and how you can it's like, As as always, is one of the fundamentals, like the really simple, honest insight. That's where you get like you work with a great strategist and you're like, man, that was so sick. There's been some really great Airbnb work where I think like one of the lines at one point was like, some trips are better in an Airbnb, which is like so honest. Like, not all trips are better in an Airbnb, but like some trips are better in an Airbnb. And I think that like marketers being able to perfect that craft, be able to get to an insight, be able to write a really good brief. Even if it's for like an organic social post that's going out next week, we need to continue to practice that, like having a point of view and being able to articulate it to others and being able to inspire great creative work. So like brief writings off the list of things that I want AI to do for my team. Yeah. Brian: That's awesome. Well, I'd love to ask my guests a question. the question in season two is: what is your superpower? Do you know what your superpower is, Caitlin? caitlin: It's such a good question because I think you would probably get an easier response if you ask people what they're not great at. like we're very, I don't know, maybe this is like Virgo tree. we're very good at being self-critical and like the things that we're not good at. But I I do think understanding what your superpowers are is so important. I think my I think my superpower, when I think about kind of like how I behave as a leader, what I actually bring into an organization, a is a bit of what I was talking about with point of view. somebody on my team was was just saying this to me the other day. She's like, Sometimes I want to make sure I ask for your feedback on something because you just have like a really specific. point of view and taste level on things that I think is actually valuable to the work. And that last part is the important part. Like I don't want everybody to just think that my opinion needs to be at the table to be at the table, but I do think that you know, having a really clear and consistent point of view that is not often the status quo and having confidence in that is my superpower. The fact that I can say this is where we need to be 18 months from now, and I have a lot of conviction in it. And it's not coming out of thin air. It's a blend of my experience, my taste level, my willingness to make a vet and take risk on that. and I really trust myself in that. And so I think that that's really as I've kind of grown in my career, emerged as as my superpower. yeah. Brian: Yeah. And I'm sure your ability to communicate that is a big part of that as well. I'm sure your teams would say that. Yeah. Awesome. caitlin: Has to be. Has to be. Yeah. Brian: Well, thank you for joining me. if people want to get in touch with you, probably LinkedIn is the best way if they're interested in you as a person. Yeah. caitlin: LinkedIn's the best way. Book a boat. Tell me how your experience was. Go get your friends together and hang out on the water. That's the best way to get my attention. My boat. Yep, those Brian: Yeah. So boat setter or get get my boat, right? Nice. caitlin: are the two. Those are the two. Brian: Awesome. Well, thank you for joining me for this brief conversation on the Marketing Brief podcast, Caitlin. caitlin: Thank you so much for having me. It's good to see you. Brian: It was great to see you too, and to all the listeners, stay curious. caitlin: Mm-hmm.