Latest / Heroes Behind the Badge / Dave Hinners — First Officer at the Wichita Massacre | Part 1

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Dave Hinners — First Officer at the Wichita Massacre | Part 1 · Heroes Behind the Badge

0:00
Well, they took all five victims, um, three guys and two
0:05
girls out to this snowy field.
0:08
It was a, a soccer field.
0:10
Yeah.
0:11
And had them kneel down and shot them all in the back of the head.
0:14
Wow.
0:14
And the only thing that saved her life was a plastic hair clip
0:28
Let's go back to December 2000 in Wichita, Kansas.
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Seven days, five dead, one survivor found by one police
0:38
officer who refused to leave her.
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25 years later, the case is still moving through the court system.
0:46
Today we have Dave Hinners, who was there at the very beginning
0:51
to give us a look inside the Wichita Massacre from the inside.
0:56
Dave, welcome to Heroes Behind the Badge.
0:59
We're glad you're here.
1:01
Thank you very much.
1:01
It's my honor.
1:03
You responded as a rookie cop almost, a three-year, uh, officer
1:09
to a 911 call in mid-December, around the 15th, 16th of December.
1:14
Uh, when you walked into that house responding to that
1:18
call, tell us what happened.
1:21
What did you see first?
1:24
Truthfully, we didn't know what we were walking into.
1:26
We, you know, we heard … First it came out as an assault,
1:31
and then a few seconds later it came out as a stabbing,
1:34
and then about a minute later it came out as a shooting.
1:36
So we were- Wow … we were a little confused.
1:39
Uh, yeah, there was me and two other officers when we got there,
1:43
and the people there really weren't sure what was going on.
1:46
All they know that they had this naked lady banging on their front
1:49
door early, early in the morning, and she was bleeding profusely
1:54
from the back of the head.
1:55
Mm. And, uh, EMS arrived right after we did, so they immediately,
2:01
uh, got her on a cot and, and got her out of the way.
2:04
So I really didn't talk to her until we got to the hospital.
2:08
Uh, the two officers that were there, uh, started
2:11
interviewing the, uh, the residents at the house.
2:14
Right.
2:15
Since it was my beat, I knew I was going to the
2:16
hospital with the victim, so.
2:20
What, uh, what was the victim able to tell you when, when you first,
2:24
uh, were able to talk to her?
2:27
Oh, Lord.
2:28
She is probably … She was the best witness I've ever had.
2:33
Really?
2:33
Literally would not stop talking.
2:37
And she later told, uh, detectives that, you know, she knew she
2:43
was the only one that survived, and that she was the only one
2:48
that was gonna solve this case.
2:50
Wow.
2:50
And she was the best, you know, witness we were gonna get, and the
2:55
best evidence we were gonna get.
2:57
And truthfully, until probably about 30 minutes after I
3:01
arrived at the hospital, I still didn't know what was going on.
3:05
It took us a while before we found the bodies, uh,
3:08
of the other four victims.
3:10
So,
3:10
you know- So you, you didn't know at that time when you
3:13
responded to this call that there were four other people
3:15
who were involved in this, huh?
3:17
Didn't have a clue.
3:18
All I knew is I had a gal that had a, a massive contusion
3:22
to the back of her head.
3:23
It actually … It had broken the back of her skull open,
3:28
and, uh, that's all I know.
3:30
And finally, when she started kinda telling me the story, was
3:34
about the time that I heard from dispatch that they had found
3:36
the, um, the crime scene of where the murders were, had occurred.
3:42
And that's when I kinda started to put things together
3:45
What was her, uh, what was her, um, magic?
3:49
How did she survive this?
3:51
I mean, it sounded like she was seriously hurt, but survived.
3:54
Well, they took all five victims, um, three guys and two
3:59
girls, out to this snowy field.
4:03
It was a, a soccer field.
4:05
Yeah.
4:05
And had 'em kneel down and shot 'em all in the back of the head.
4:09
Wow.
4:09
And the only thing that saved her life was a plastic hair clip that
4:15
she had in, in her hair, and it deflected the bullet just enough.
4:18
It still cracked the back of her skull open, uh,
4:21
but did not penetrate.
4:23
Wow.
4:24
So a, a, a, a little plastic, uh, hairpiece for, uh, you know,
4:29
for a couple of dollars and that saved her life probably.
4:32
Right.
4:33
Probably, yes.
4:35
Yeah, and Dennis, you called it at the beginning, uh,
4:37
the Wichita Massacre, some call it the Wichita Horror.
4:42
This is perhaps the, the most heinous crime I've ever, uh,
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been able to, uh, research.
4:49
Um, the, uh, atrocity that occurred to these, uh, five
4:53
victims on that night, and then there were two other
4:55
victims even before that.
4:57
Uh, Dave, we, we go back really a week, um, before
5:01
the murders occurred, and before… And, and we call
5:05
this, uh, survivor Holly G.
5:07
Now, is, is her name really Holly, and why don't we
5:10
have a full name for Holly?
5:13
The only thing I've ever really referred to
5:15
her as is HG. HG. Yeah.
5:17
Um, and the reason was at the time, we didn't wanna put her name
5:21
out in the, in the news media.
5:24
Uh, so all my reports listed her name, uh, but
5:28
everything else in there was we referred to her as HG.
5:32
On the stand, if I remember right, I referred to as
5:34
HG. I think that's all we've ever referred her.
5:38
So I'm- Oh, okay.
5:39
So, are- It, it's been a few years.
5:41
I'm trying to remember what her first name was, but
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I, I don't think it was Holly, but it could've been.
5:46
So Dave, uh, we're, we're gonna call her Holly
5:48
G for this interview.
5:49
And you know, one thing that really bothers me in, on these
5:52
heinous crimes is that we hear so much about the killers.
5:56
We hear their names mentioned over and over again, and
5:59
everybody remembers them, but we don't remember the victims.
6:03
And I just wanted to, to read the names of the victims
6:06
of, of this heinous crime.
6:08
Uh, these were the four that were murdered, uh, the night that Holly
6:12
G was, uh, seriously injured.
6:15
Uh, Brad Heyka, Heather Muller, Aaron Sander, Jason Befort.
6:24
And, uh, then we had two other victims of the crime,
6:28
and we'll get into that, how, how they were involved.
6:31
Ann Walenta, who was also killed by these murderers, and,
6:35
uh, another one that was, um, traumatized, uh, Andrew Schreiber.
6:41
Uh, these were the victims of what's called
6:43
the Wichita Massacre.
6:45
It occurred, uh, over a week period in two- December of 2000.
6:51
Dave was the first one on the scene, uh, and, and met with
6:55
the survivor, the lone survivor the night of these murders.
6:59
Um, walk me through, uh, what led up to this night, okay?
7:04
We had a crime spree that was going on.
7:06
There had been a another quadruple murder that occurred
7:09
just eight days earlier.
7:11
Now you, you, uh, had a guy that was robbed at gunpoint, and,
7:15
uh, and then another woman that was shot and ultimately died.
7:19
Uh, walk us through the details there.
7:21
What was going on in December of 2000 in Wichita, Kansas?
7:27
Well, the first one I b- was basically they carjacked a
7:31
gentleman at a convenience store, and, uh, one of the brothers rode
7:35
with him in the car, and the other one followed, and they forced him
7:38
to go to an ATM, withdraw as much money as he could d- withdraw.
7:44
Uh, then they had him drive out into the county, and one of the
7:48
brothers shot the tires out of the car so he couldn't follow them,
7:52
and then they left him there.
7:54
Mm. That was our, our first victim.
7:56
Was Andrew Schreiber.
7:57
Our second- Yeah.
7:57
Andrew
7:57
Schreiber,
7:58
right.
7:58
Um,
8:01
our next victim, basically, she was pulling … If I
8:04
remember correctly, she was pulling up into her driveway
8:06
one evening, and they ran up on her, and something happened.
8:10
I don't think we ever really def- found out exactly what happened,
8:13
but she was shot in the driveway.
8:15
I assume it was probably gonna be the exact same thing.
8:19
Um, and she actually lived long enough to identify,
8:23
uh, the brothers as, as the ones that had done it to her
8:26
before she had passed away.
8:29
And then, of course, a few nights later, we had, um, they
8:32
basically were driving around in, in a nice neighborhood and
8:35
had seen a home open that had the … You know, the front door
8:39
was open, but the, you know, the weather door was closed, but
8:43
they could see inside, and that's when they, they did the home
8:46
invasion that led to the quadruple
8:49
Wow
8:50
And the details of that night were, are really unbelievable.
8:55
And, and then we get up to the point where you enter the,
8:58
the scene, which is they, they eventually, after they emptied
9:01
their ATM, um, accounts, they take them all, uh, out to a deserted
9:07
area in a snow-filled pasture area and, um, shot them all in
9:12
the back of the head, Holly G being the only one that survived.
9:15
And, you know, we talked about her, uh, the, the suffering from
9:19
the gunshot wound, but she also was run over by the truck that
9:25
the killers used, uh, to escape.
9:27
So Holly G somehow survives a gunshot wound
9:30
to the back of the head.
9:32
Uh, then she, uh, suffers injuries as a result of
9:35
being run over by a truck.
9:37
I don't know how you survive that.
9:39
And then she walks one mile or so in, in the snow, freezing
9:44
temperatures, stark naked, uh, and sees Christmas lights
9:48
on a house in, uh, Wichita, Kansas, and, uh, goes for help.
9:53
Uh, interestingly, Dave, I, I was noting, uh, in my research that as
9:57
she was walking toward this house with Christmas lights on, uh,
10:01
there were a number of vehicles that came along on the roadway
10:04
that she was on, and she ducked.
10:07
She didn't ask for help because she was worried that the killers
10:10
might be returning and, uh, she didn't wanna be, uh, uh,
10:14
you know, taken hostage once again and, and who knows what
10:17
they would've done to her.
10:18
Um, so this is where you enter, a 911 call from the
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home where Holly G ends up.
10:23
Um, and, you know, it always amazes me that police
10:27
officers get these calls.
10:29
You never know what you're walking into, right?
10:32
It could be a domestic violence situation, one of the most
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dangerous that any cop will ever face, or it could be a quadruple
10:39
murder and a, and a survivor somehow that makes it out, and,
10:43
uh, this is what you walked into.
10:45
Uh, you mentioned that you didn't really, uh, talk to
10:48
Holly, uh, at the house, uh, not until you got to the hospital.
10:52
Um, w- what was the, the scene like when you
10:55
arrived at that house?
10:56
What was… Uh, was Holly G conscious?
10:59
She was conscious.
11:00
Actually, EMS, you know, arrived just … We all
11:04
arrived about the same time.
11:05
I mean, it was literally foot and a half of snow out, icy streets.
11:10
I mean, you were not driving fast that night.
11:13
And, uh, yeah, she did tell me that there were several cars.
11:16
She crossed a highway, and she was so afraid it was them
11:19
coming back, you know, to get her- Right … that she
11:22
was not gonna contact a car.
11:24
When we got there, the people in the house had her wrapped in
11:28
a … It was either, um, a, a, like a rug or a real thick, uh,
11:34
blanket, and EMS immediately started working on her 'cause
11:38
she was still bleeding from the back of the head a little bit.
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And, uh, she had … You know, they were concerned about the
11:44
frostbite 'cause we had realized that she had walked quite a ways.
11:47
Uh, so the two officers that there with me, you know, you
11:50
know, started doing their job.
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They pulled people acro- you know, said, "Hey, what do
11:54
you g- what's going on?" Of course, they didn't know.
11:56
They had … All they knew was this naked girl banging
11:59
on their door, bleeding from the back of their head.
12:02
And so they, uh … EMS immediately gets this gal up, you
12:06
know, on a cot, and they get her into, into the, uh, ambulance.
12:10
And so, like I said, it's, you know, my department was,
12:13
"It's your beat, it's your case, so I'm following the
12:16
victim to the hospital."
12:18
And, uh, when we got there, um, you know, I helped them
12:22
get the, the, uh, gurney out of the truck, and that's, that's
12:26
when she started talking.
12:28
But I do remember one of the female EMS personnel broke down
12:33
at that time, started crying, 'cause I'm sure she was telling
12:36
them in, in the ambulance a little bit- Right … of what happened.
12:39
Right.
12:40
And, uh, uh, luckily I had a brand new case book
12:44
because I filled a case book.
12:45
Right.
12:45
I mean, I literally could not get her to be quiet.
12:49
Uh, she started telling everything.
12:51
What are
12:51
some of the, what are some of the things, Dave,
12:52
that, that she told you?
12:53
Are those things you can talk about now?
12:55
Or did sh- You know, what, what did she do to help
12:58
direct the future efforts?
13:02
Well, she started with the whole story, and I mean, the whole
13:05
way through this thing, I'm just … You know, you've had witnesses
13:09
that just are like, "Okay, I don't believe a word they're saying."
13:11
I believed every word she said.
13:13
Right.
13:13
But in the back of my mind, I, I just … It's, it couldn't
13:16
comprehend the evilness of just what had happened to
13:19
her, that group that night.
13:22
Now she's talked about how they, they broke in and, uh, how
13:27
they had, uh, tied them all up.
13:29
They started ransacking the house, and then they were
13:31
taking them one by one to ATMs to pull out as much money-
13:37
Right
13:37
… as they could.
13:38
Um- And while they were doing that, they would stick the
13:42
others in a closet so that they couldn't, uh, get out.
13:46
You know, 'cause at one point- Right … there were three
13:48
guys there and a girl against one of the suspects, but,
13:52
you know, they were tied up, stuffed in a closet during that.
13:56
And, uh- Wow.
13:57
Was she able to describe the, uh, the people thoroughly?
14:00
Well, oh, yeah, she gave me great descriptions of, of both suspects.
14:05
Uh, she described the car that they were driving.
14:09
Uh, they had stolen or had taken one of the boy's, uh, white pickup
14:13
trucks and were using it also, and she gave me a description of that.
14:18
And of course, you know, I'm trying to relay all this to, uh,
14:23
detectives and to dispatch, and I'm talking with detectives at this
14:27
time trying to figure out, okay, what do we, you know, what do
14:30
we wanna put out over the radio?
14:31
Um, uh, 'cause a lot of it we weren't putting out over the
14:36
radio, uh, so, 'cause at the time, you know, the news media's
14:40
listened to everything we had to say, so we were a little-
14:42
Right … little, little cautious at the first o- on what we
14:46
were gonna put out on this, uh, especially since this was … I
14:50
mean, we did have a second or, uh, the first quadruple, you
14:53
know, week or two before all this.
14:55
So, uh, we were, we were firstly a little, little guarded on
15:01
what we were putting out over the radio, but we later put out
15:04
quite a bit of information, which actually helped us catch the
15:07
two individuals the next day.
15:10
Wow.
15:12
You know, Dave, I'm … What, what strikes me is you're hearing
15:15
this as a police officer, and you're being professional.
15:20
You're taking notes.
15:22
You're passing along, uh, the, the survivor t- um, you
15:26
know, evidence that she was providing you so you could help
15:29
capture the, uh, criminals.
15:31
But, you know, she's describing a heinous crime, uh, torture,
15:36
a rape, uh, robbery and then ultimately murder, a multiple
15:42
murder, quadruple murder, and what's going through your head?
15:46
I mean, you've gotta kinda separate, I would imagine, the,
15:49
the human reaction to what you're hearing, which is, uh, t- so
15:53
traumatic in, in my view, versus, uh, your job as a police officer.
15:59
And then this always, you know, kind of confuses me about how
16:03
cops are able to, uh, maybe compartmentalize their, their
16:06
emotions, their human side of, of what they're dealing with,
16:10
with the professional side.
16:12
Walk me through that.
16:12
What's going through your head at this moment?
16:16
That was one.
16:16
I mean, you always sometimes, w- w- you always kinda
16:19
question sometimes about when people tell you things.
16:21
You're let- you write down, it's like, okay, you know, you go to
16:24
a domestic, somebody's telling you one thing, somebody's telling
16:26
you the other thing, somewhere in there, this is the truth.
16:29
I had never any time thought that she was lying to me, any,
16:33
any of this was exaggerated.
16:35
But at the same time, I'm taking it all in as the truth, but trying
16:40
to process how a human being could do this to another human being.
16:45
Right.
16:45
I mean, and it's … We probably had the same conversation four
16:49
or five times, and occasionally she would add a little bit
16:51
more into it as she came in.
16:54
Um, and she was, for probably the first 30 minutes to an hour,
17:01
well, probably 30 to 45 minutes while we were there in the
17:03
emergency room, she kept wanting to know about, uh, her friends.
17:09
And I finally had to tell her that at that point I had found out that
17:12
no, they were all deceased, and I finally had to let her know that-
17:16
Wow
17:16
uh, all her friends, you know, didn't make it.
17:20
And, uh, the weird … Not the weird thing, but she told me that
17:25
when they were all shot, she was actually still wearing a sweater.
17:29
And, uh, her boyfriend, who we later found out actually was
17:32
gonna propose, I don't know, that night or- Mm … pretty soon-
17:36
Wow
17:37
uh, she went to him and took the sweater off and wrapped
17:41
it around the wound he had on hi- on the back of his head.
17:45
Um, I mean, that's how much she sh- cared about.
17:47
She took the only piece of clothing she had
17:49
off to help him out.
17:52
What was her reaction, uh, when you told her that
17:55
her friends had all died?
17:59
She knew.
17:59
I mean, I think she just She, she knew that they had passed away.
18:04
I think she knew it.
18:06
Uh, she, I think she was just hopeful like her something had
18:09
happened and, and, you know.
18:12
Yeah.
18:13
Some-
18:13
She didn't, she- Like some miracle,
18:14
huh?
18:15
Yeah, and she couldn't, she couldn't understand it,
18:17
'cause it took us a while to find out what saved her.
18:20
And so she thought, well, maybe what happened to
18:22
her happened to them.
18:24
Oh,
18:24
okay.
18:24
You know, she didn't know what had saved her at first, and we
18:28
didn't find that out till later.
18:30
Um, but yeah, we, we probably had the, the conversation about
18:35
what happened that night between the ER and, and after we got
18:39
her into ICU four or five times.
18:42
And she would, at that time, you know, remember
18:44
a little bit more, add a little bit more to the story.
18:47
And of course, that gave me time to think, okay, well,
18:51
you know, the particulars of the case were one thing, and
18:54
so I'm trying to figure out the evidence we can find to
18:57
catch these guys, you know?
18:59
And then we found out the truck and was able to g- get a little
19:01
more information on that that we could put out, uh, to get it.
19:05
But, uh, like I said, she is, you know, 20 years into law
19:09
enforcement, I have to bet, admit she was probably the
19:12
best witness I have ever had.
19:14
Wow.
19:15
Maybe one of the strongest and most courageous, uh, based on
19:18
what she's been through.
19:19
Oh, I … She's, she's a very, very strong young, young lady.
19:22
Yeah.
19:22
Let me, uh, remind everybody that you're listening to Heroes
19:26
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19:28
Dave Hinners is with us.
19:30
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20:02
Craig.
20:03
You know, Dave, um, it sounds to me, based on what you've
20:06
described, that you were with her basically through the night
20:10
and into the next morning.
20:12
Um, many hours, I assume.
20:14
And, uh, my obvious question is, you know, is that normal
20:17
for a police officer to do that?
20:19
I mean, obviously your, your shift probably ended at some point.
20:23
Uh, but it, you know, this is something that I think p- some
20:26
people may not understand.
20:28
Just because your shift is over, I mean, you're involved in this
20:31
crime and, and with the survivor, you're not gonna leave her, and
20:35
it sounds like you stayed with her well into the next day.
20:38
Is that correct?
20:40
Yeah, I stayed with her.
20:40
We, I stayed with her during the, you know, during what they could
20:44
do for her in the emergency room.
20:46
Which, which wasn't much.
20:47
I mean, uh, they got her cleaned up and got some bandages on it.
20:52
And, uh, she was in a lot of pain.
20:54
And, uh, went with her when she, they moved her to the ICU
20:58
unit, um, and stayed with her there- Um, probably several
21:03
hours into it, I had a couple detectives stop by, um, to, you
21:08
know, try and do some follow-up.
21:09
At that point she was … You know, they have got enough
21:12
medication into her, she was not coherent to, you
21:16
know, to some extent.
21:17
She could still talk a little bit, but, um, yeah, I wasn't gonna
21:22
leave her till I was relieved, and I think I was working 11:00 to
21:25
7:00, and I think I got relieved about 9:00 the next morning.
21:30
And of course then I had to go back to the, uh, city building
21:34
where the detectives are and then tell the whole story again,
21:37
and then I had four homicide cases and a rape case to write
21:40
up, so it was a long day.
21:44
Wow.
21:45
Help me understand, uh, and our audience, the difference between
21:49
a police officer and a detective in a case like this, okay?
21:52
In other words, when you respond w- to the 911 call,
21:56
um, you're there with the survivor, but at what point
22:00
do, do you turn over the case basically to the detectives
22:03
and, and the others that are gonna get involved in the case?
22:07
My job as the patrol officer was basically to get the
22:10
basic information, everything I could, you know- Right
22:13
uh, before anything had happened.
22:15
So, you know, I got all, everything I could from her, uh,
22:19
got out a lot of the information.
22:21
Um, and then my job is to fill in the detectives, who are gonna
22:25
then take all that information and work the case from there on.
22:31
So I'm, you know … I did a little bit with some of the stuff
22:35
around the house later, but my main job was gaining all that
22:40
information at the very beginning-
22:41
Right
22:42
um, and turning it over to detectives.
22:44
And of course, it was a lot of crime scenes.
22:47
We were out on that, uh, parking lot, from my understanding, for
22:52
days on end, you know, trying to … And we were working in a
22:57
foot of snow, uh, so trying to find evidence in a foot of snow,
23:01
and then the house was another area that we were working.
23:05
But, uh, no, I stayed with her probably till about
23:08
9:00 the next morning- And- … until I was relieved.
23:13
Help me understand the, uh, capture of these two brothers.
23:18
And, and even before that, was there a motive beyond
23:21
robbery and the thrill of, uh, committing heinous crimes
23:25
to innocent individuals?
23:29
No, I, money's I'm sure the big one.
23:31
I, I, and all I can just say is I, you know, I've thought
23:34
about that for years, and I can just say people have
23:37
asked me that question before.
23:39
Th- these two brothers are just evil.
23:41
That's just the best way I can put it.
23:44
You know, money I'm sure was the driving factor, but with
23:47
everything else that was done to these poor victims that night,
23:51
it's more than just money.
23:53
Um, we, the, since they had taken one of the, uh, victim's
24:00
trucks, um, we were able to determine, find out what kind
24:06
of truck it was, got the tag number on it, and those things.
24:10
We actually had … One of my partners, uh, had broke his
24:15
hand earlier in the evening in a fight and was at the hospital
24:19
getting his hand patched up, and he showed up in the
24:23
ICU unit just was all like, "What have you got going on?"
24:26
I mean, the radio's going nuts.
24:28
Yeah.
24:30
He's got a cast on his hand, and I said, "Hey, I've …" Kind of
24:34
just went over quickly, and I said, "Hey, I've gotta find out
24:37
this truck." So he goes … And I'm still talking to her, and
24:41
she's giving me information.
24:42
He goes … Now, remember, he's got a broken hand.
24:44
He's off duty.
24:45
They've sent him home.
24:47
Right.
24:48
And, uh, he gets on the phone, calls our records, gets the
24:53
truck description, gets the tag number, calls, gets me a
24:57
case number, actually writes the stolen, uh, truck report
25:01
up there in the hospital.
25:03
I never did pull it.
25:04
I'd love to have pulled that case 'cause I'm sure it looked
25:06
horrible with a broken hand.
25:08
Yeah.
25:08
But he wrote that case up, got it entered into NCIC for me
25:13
so, you know, w- that would be a stolen truck if it came up,
25:17
and then pretty much was like, "Man, is there anything else
25:19
you need?" I'm like, "Ah, no,
25:20
go home." So, uh, but, uh, we got the truck out there, and
25:26
then we decided that, uh, well, the detectives decided let's
25:29
get some information about the brothers out there, so we
25:31
gave out a description of the white truck, the car they were
25:35
driving, their description.
25:37
And basically, I, I don't know if we went into the quad too much,
25:41
but a burglary and those things.
25:43
And, uh, I learned later that, uh, I was actually at
25:46
the city building going over detectives when we got a call.
25:50
911 got a call about a male matching the description
25:55
driving a white truck matching the description dragging
25:58
a big screen TV across the parking lot on a blanket-
26:02
in a, an apartment complex.
26:05
So of course we send everybody we had out there, and they were able
26:09
to actually then catch one of the brothers 'cause they said, "Yeah,
26:13
he went into that apartment."
26:14
One brother was in custody.
26:16
The second was still out there.
26:18
How they found him is in part two.
26:20
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