Latest / Indie Film Podcast / Ego vs Confidence: Promoting Your Film Without Burning Bridges

Transcript

Ego vs Confidence: Promoting Your Film Without Burning Bridges · Indie Film Podcast

• 0:00
  Chuck, have you ever wondered if you're a narcissist?
• 0:02
  When someone gives you feedback, your first internal reaction is
• 0:05
  A oh cool, that's helpful, B I'll think about it later.
• 0:10
  C They just don't understand my vision.
• 0:13
  We are constantly told as artists that we need to be loud
• 0:15
  and confident about our work, but we also work in an industry
• 0:19
  where egos and narcissism can absolutely poison a set.
• 0:23
  So where's the line? When does healthy self promotion
• 0:26
  turn into centering yourself at the expense of others?
• 0:29
  Hence our topic for this week, advocating for your work versus
• 0:33
  building an ego that holds you back.
• 0:35
  Because let's be honest, we all have to promote our own work,
• 0:37
  and we do it because we have to, not because we love it.
• 0:40
  And those fancy PR firms are absolutely not in the budget.
• 0:43
  Welcome to indie film podcast. I'm Vic.
• 0:46
  And I'm Chuck. We're starting this episode by
• 0:48
  doing what we do best, which is talking about the times we
• 0:51
  absolutely did this wrong. Do you want to start out
• 0:53
  Victoria or do you want me to embarrass myself first?
• 0:57
  I do love it when you embarrass yourself, but I think I love it
• 1:00
  when I embarrass myself even more, so I'm going to go ahead
• 1:02
  and start. Thank you.
• 1:03
  You're. Very welcome.
• 1:05
  So I have possibly one of the worst.
• 1:09
  Oh no I'm not. I'm.
• 1:11
  Well, maybe it is. That feels a little egotistical
• 1:13
  to say that I have the worst imposter.
• 1:14
  It is you. Know that's a.
• 1:16
  Little narcissistic. It is.
• 1:19
  It is. But I do struggle a lot with
• 1:21
  imposter syndrome, so much so that it will prevent me from
• 1:25
  even putting my hat in the ring for a job or submitting an
• 1:31
  audition or doing anything to the extent where I'm I'm so
• 1:35
  positive. And I've talked myself out of
• 1:39
  why, how many reasons they have to tell me no, yeah, that I
• 1:42
  won't even bother doing it. Are you afraid of?
• 1:44
  No. I'm not necessarily afraid of
• 1:47
  no, but it's more like, well, I don't have enough time to bother
• 1:50
  doing this audition that they're going to tell me no for anyway.
• 1:53
  And I can sort of weirdly justify it in my brain.
• 1:55
  But it gets to the point where I'm actually mean to myself and
• 2:00
  my work, more so even than just, you know, you are your own worst
• 2:04
  critic kind of stuff, but just downright mean and insulting.
• 2:08
  And I don't know where that comes from.
• 2:11
  It comes from this this base of of seeking perfection I guess.
• 2:15
  Yeah. And if it's not perfect, then
• 2:17
  obviously you're you're lacking. Yeah, if it's not perfect, it's
• 2:19
  an absolute waste of time. Right.
• 2:21
  Well, that's good because we actually have the opposite
• 2:23
  problem because when I started working in in film, even before
• 2:27
  that when I was a musician, still I'm a musician.
• 2:30
  But when I, when I was playing more actively, it was kind of AI
• 2:34
  had more of a delicate ego. And so when people would
• 2:38
  criticize me or have input, even constructive input, it was, oh,
• 2:43
  OK, well, I don't need, I can ignore them, see what they do,
• 2:47
  focus on what they do incorrectly and be like, I don't
• 2:49
  need to worry about that. Oh, I no longer need your
• 2:51
  feedback because I've seen how poor you are at this.
• 2:54
  Yeah, exactly. Oh, harsh.
• 2:55
  And then as well, you know, hey, maturity kind of fixes some of
• 2:59
  that because it comes from a place of, you know, self doubt
• 3:04
  still, right? And, and same same thing, same
• 3:08
  thing that you're talking about. I feel like, but just like a
• 3:10
  different behavioral way of, of interacting with people or, you
• 3:15
  know, I'm going to make the stuff, I'm going to put it out
• 3:17
  there and if people want to criticize it, well, too bad.
• 3:20
  It's just not for you or whatever.
• 3:22
  And then the other thing that started to happen as well is, is
• 3:26
  collaborating with film makers, right?
• 3:29
  Or not collaborating, but going to events where their films are
• 3:31
  getting screened. It was that that feeling of OK,
• 3:34
  well, I can't wait to see what everybody, how everybody
• 3:37
  responds to my thing. But at the same time, when I go
• 3:40
  to see the the other people's films, it wasn't, I wasn't
• 3:43
  actively listening and actively watching as much as I should
• 3:47
  have been because it was. I was more concerned about how
• 3:50
  does their film compare to the project that I worked on, you
• 3:54
  know, just really immature stuff.
• 3:56
  And that was like, you know, 20s and, and early 30s is, is the
• 3:59
  way that, that I approached the art form, which is the
• 4:02
  collaboration or the sharing of the art.
• 4:04
  Yeah, and I think it there is still a lot of that too.
• 4:07
  You're going to see that all the time with plenty of people.
• 4:09
  And that's really funny. No, mine was the exact opposite.
• 4:12
  I would go if it was a long screening day and or a big block
• 4:16
  of shorts and a new mine was playing.
• 4:17
  I would go out of my way to leave and not be in the theater
• 4:21
  when mine played. Oh.
• 4:22
  OK. Right.
• 4:23
  Because of just being so embarrassed about well, I did
• 4:26
  XYZ wrong or I could have done them better.
• 4:29
  And so I missed out on all the feedback that any you know, or
• 4:33
  any audience reactions or things like that.
• 4:35
  And it was. Feedback super important.
• 4:38
  It's so important. That's how you become, that's
• 4:39
  how you stop making those mistakes.
• 4:41
  And like, if I wanted to learn and get better, I need to be
• 4:44
  there for the genuine moments of feedback.
• 4:46
  I needed to show up for that. And when people would try to
• 4:49
  give me any constructive criticism, I could kind of beat
• 4:52
  him to the punch, right? Because I already know
• 4:53
  everything that's so wrong with this film.
• 4:55
  Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so then I feel like I
• 4:57
  wouldn't get the most out of the feedback that I really needed to
• 5:00
  to be able to to grow and stop being so embarrassed of my work.
• 5:04
  Yeah, it's, it's tricky, especially like you said, when
• 5:06
  you think that you know everything that's wrong.
• 5:09
  Yeah, because there are people that will give you feedback on
• 5:13
  things you didn't realize were not correct.
• 5:17
  And it's not necessarily from a place of like, what am I trying
• 5:23
  to say here? If they give you the feedback
• 5:25
  and say that you need to do something, that's like a Bill
• 5:28
  Hader line where he talks about people giving him writing
• 5:31
  criticism on his writing. Yeah.
• 5:33
  They're giving feedback because they notice a problem.
• 5:36
  It doesn't mean that you need to accept their feedback.
• 5:38
  Yeah. It's just that, you know,
• 5:39
  they're pointing something out that is incorrect with the movie
• 5:43
  that you made. Maybe it has to do with the
• 5:44
  story. You know, the technical stuff.
• 5:46
  Is, is something that you should really listen to, you know,
• 5:49
  somebody that that can give you really good feedback on, oh,
• 5:53
  you're not lighting this correctly or you know, you could
• 5:55
  work on the framing, you know, that type of thing.
• 5:58
  Or you know, the audio is like a little bit jumbled here, like
• 6:00
  this is how you fix it. But then you know, the
• 6:02
  storytelling part, that's anybody can give you feedback on
• 6:05
  that. Yeah, and and will most likely.
• 6:08
  But to your point, no, it's it's much better to take.
• 6:12
  Not everybody who gives you feedback is going to have the
• 6:16
  ACT. We'll let you clear your throat
• 6:18
  there. Apparently I don't want this
• 6:21
  sentence to come out of my face. Just because they have feedback
• 6:25
  doesn't mean they have the right solution.
• 6:27
  But they are giving you a signal that the something here does
• 6:30
  need to change. So that's a really good point.
• 6:32
  Yeah, for sure. Not a lot.
• 6:33
  Do you want to do you want to talk about networking without
• 6:36
  being fake? Because that's another thing
• 6:38
  that we've run into at film festivals.
• 6:40
  And I myself have been completely guilty of some of
• 6:44
  these things where it's like, let me talk and I'm not ready to
• 6:46
  listen. Yeah, Right.
• 6:48
  Or there's the opposite end of things, like I'm just going to
• 6:50
  listen to everybody, but I'm not going to talk or speak up or say
• 6:53
  anything. Yeah.
• 6:54
  'Cause I'm going to feel like I don't belong in this room with
• 6:57
  some of these people that I've seen these films now and.
• 6:59
  Yeah, it's like a delicate balance.
• 7:01
  And you don't want to be on either one of those extremes
• 7:03
  where you're Bo guarding the entire conversation and not
• 7:06
  letting anybody share what they have going on.
• 7:09
  And you don't want to just sit there like a family on the wall
• 7:11
  because nobody's going to give two shits about your movie,
• 7:16
  right? It's if you don't like, you have
• 7:20
  to care more about your film and you are the one that will care
• 7:23
  the most about your film versus anybody else.
• 7:25
  And so unless you're ready to make those steps to promote it
• 7:28
  like you're you're. Stuck.
• 7:30
  If you're not going to be an advocate for yourself, nobody
• 7:32
  else is going to show up to do it for you.
• 7:34
  Yes. Correct.
• 7:35
  Thank you. That was much more succinct.
• 7:36
  So you're, you're really good at this because you've done a lot
• 7:40
  of corporate work as far as marketing is concerned.
• 7:43
  You've done a lot of trade shows, you've traveled for trade
• 7:45
  shows. So what are some tips you can
• 7:47
  give us Victoria for networking without making it seem fake and
• 7:52
  phony? And we all know that feeling.
• 7:53
  Everybody knows that feeling and I mean, obviously the number one
• 7:56
  thing is just just show up as you always just show up as you
• 8:00
  because you are interesting. Unless it's Halloween, then show
• 8:03
  up as your favorite horror movie character.
• 8:05
  Yeah, but your favorite? Not just because you think
• 8:08
  everybody else will like that horror character.
• 8:10
  Just because everyone else is dressing up as K pop demon
• 8:13
  hunters doesn't mean that you have to as well.
• 8:15
  Yes. So maybe you should.
• 8:17
  If you love them, you should. But you don't have to.
• 8:18
  Yeah. But obviously, yes, show up as
• 8:21
  yourself. You are enough.
• 8:24
  And if that's the only thing that you have to say to yourself
• 8:26
  on repeat when you're going to walk into this building or this
• 8:29
  Conference Center or whatever, do it.
• 8:32
  You're enough just as you are. You may not be super wealthy.
• 8:37
  You may not have a lot of films under your belt.
• 8:39
  You may not even have a feature under your belt yet.
• 8:41
  Or maybe you're short, didn't get accepted to this festival,
• 8:43
  but it's local and you want to go.
• 8:45
  That doesn't matter. You're enough.
• 8:47
  Should show up OK. Should you like lead with that,
• 8:49
  like hi, my name is Chuck, I am enough.
• 8:52
  I mean, I feel like that would be a conversation starter for
• 8:55
  sure. So you could.
• 8:58
  What else you got for us? Be excited about getting to hear
• 9:01
  other people's stories. I like that.
• 9:03
  That's one of my favorite things about going to film festivals is
• 9:05
  getting to hear people's stories.
• 9:07
  I'm. I'm a storyteller and an avid
• 9:10
  story consumer. Yeah, for sure.
• 9:12
  We all are. Most, most film makers are.
• 9:14
  Not all, but most are. And this is just another
• 9:17
  opportunity to get to hear stories.
• 9:18
  So genuinely look at it that way.
• 9:21
  You never know what kind of wild, interesting stuff you're
• 9:24
  going to get to hear. And don't be afraid to ask
• 9:27
  people that. You don't have to ask somebody
• 9:28
  the classic like, hi, nice to meet you.
• 9:31
  So what do you do? Yeah, what?
• 9:32
  What? What is, What was your role?
• 9:34
  What was your film? When is it screening?
• 9:36
  Do you want to come to mind? Yeah, that's the most
• 9:39
  transactional conversation you can have at a Film Festival.
• 9:42
  Instead, ask people what inspired their film What, what
• 9:45
  were they the most excited about in their role on this?
• 9:49
  And hopefully that will tell you then what their role in the
• 9:52
  project was too. But you know, just little things
• 9:55
  like that. Just think about the questions
• 9:56
  that you would like to answer. Oh yeah, that's a good point,
• 9:59
  right? Focus on that.
• 10:01
  If if there are things that you want to share about yourself,
• 10:04
  you know, just ask those questions and then it would be a
• 10:08
  natural transition. They might turn around and ask
• 10:11
  him back. That's a self-centered me.
• 10:13
  Like you don't even you don't even have to wait for them to
• 10:15
  ask. You can just ask them the
• 10:16
  question. When they answer be like, oh,
• 10:18
  let me share my anecdote. Yeah, there we go.
• 10:20
  There we go. Perfect you.
• 10:22
  Got anything else for us? Yeah.
• 10:23
  I think one other thing that I think is really important is
• 10:27
  that when you're showing up to these festivals, a lot of people
• 10:29
  show up with kind of that mindset of I need to find a
• 10:32
  producer and I need to get millions of dollars and I need
• 10:35
  ADP that's got 7 awards from top tier festivals or whatever it is
• 10:41
  that they need. And I think the conversations
• 10:47
  are much more successful if you show up with more of a hey, how
• 10:53
  can I help you kind of way. And if it's more eyes on your
• 10:56
  film, there we go. If it's hey, I need some
• 10:59
  feedback. If it's I'm actually going to be
• 11:02
  shooting in an area near you soon, what locations would you
• 11:05
  recommend or recommend I avoid? Things like that, You know, just
• 11:09
  just sort of treating it as we're all film makers, We're all
• 11:12
  in this together. How can we help each other?
• 11:15
  Because the world isn't going to help film makers.
• 11:20
  No necessarily. So we need to figure out how we
• 11:23
  can help each other out. And there's, there's plenty of
• 11:25
  people that are looking to ingest quality independent film.
• 11:29
  Yeah. We're not in competition where
• 11:32
  we need to just make sure that we're expanding, expanding the
• 11:36
  demand. Yeah, it's not pie.
• 11:38
  No, there is not 3. .14159. Got a 5?
• 11:43
  Okay, like in a tin. Yes.
• 11:45
  Yes, it's not pie. There's.
• 11:48
  Just because somebody watches one persons movie doesn't mean
• 11:51
  now they won't watch yours or honestly even investors, right?
• 11:55
  Just because somebody's investing in one person's movie
• 11:57
  doesn't mean they won't also invest in yours.
• 12:00
  Yeah, if you have a compelling idea, yeah, for sure.
• 12:02
  And a lot of us are working with budgets that are pretty small
• 12:05
  anyway. And if you get to the right Film
• 12:06
  Festival, they might be baffled, Yeah, by what you were able to
• 12:09
  do with such a low budget. Exactly.
• 12:12
  And who knows, maybe they'll give you cash.
• 12:13
  I haven't had that experience happen, man.
• 12:15
  It'd be really cool it did though.
• 12:16
  But we do know people that are working in those avenues, which
• 12:19
  is exciting. And we will definitely report
• 12:22
  back when we learn the different methods, whether whether it's
• 12:25
  crowdfunding or finding producers, executive producers,
• 12:30
  but we'll report on all that. Should we talk a couple quick
• 12:34
  examples of of famous people that were that?
• 12:39
  Actually quite humble. Yeah, yeah, because I do want to
• 12:42
  talk about Richard Linklater. So here in Idaho, the Idaho Film
• 12:46
  Society is actually taking a page out of the Austin Film
• 12:51
  Society, which is what Richard Linklater formed.
• 12:54
  And basically he got a bunch of film makers together in Austin
• 12:58
  in his facility. He screened indie films and this
• 13:02
  is like in, I think like mid 80s.
• 13:04
  So they'd have to get the the film, you know, because he
• 13:07
  couldn't just get Avhs very easily.
• 13:10
  If you're if you're going to be we.
• 13:11
  Certainly weren't emailing it to each other.
• 13:13
  No, there's no digital projectors or anything like
• 13:15
  that. If they were, they were probably
• 13:16
  way too expensive. But you know, so they were doing
• 13:18
  it that way and getting excitement around indie film in
• 13:22
  the community, which was kind of like The Rising Tide raises all
• 13:27
  ships and now Austin is basically.
• 13:30
  Huge film hub. Huge film hub here in the United
• 13:33
  States and I don't know, internationally, maybe you've
• 13:35
  heard of Austin and South by Southwest.
• 13:37
  I'm not 100% sure, but I would imagine.
• 13:40
  I would assume that at least South by Southwest has a fairly
• 13:42
  well known presence outside the US so the city that that giant
• 13:47
  festival and conference is in is Austin.
• 13:50
  Austin Austin, TX Do you have an example of a famous person that
• 13:54
  was humble check their ego at the door?
• 13:57
  I heard a really cool one so I'm choosing to believe it's true.
• 14:02
  But if anybody knows differently, actually don't
• 14:06
  comment. Don't just keep it to yourself.
• 14:07
  I want to believe that this is pure and true.
• 14:09
  Right on. We won't look at the comments
• 14:11
  then. There we go.
• 14:12
  Or I will, and I won't tell you. I would rather bury my head in
• 14:14
  the sand, thank you very much. Nice.
• 14:17
  OK, so on Saving Private Ryan, apparently Steven Spielberg's
• 14:21
  viewed this film as very much so serving something larger than
• 14:24
  himself as opposed to making a Steven Spielberg film.
• 14:28
  So he got a lot of input from World War 2 new vets, from
• 14:31
  actual like military historians and a lot of technicians that
• 14:37
  knew combat sequences and specific tactics.
• 14:42
  And all of them were describing war as very chaotic, very
• 14:49
  tumultuous, very, you know, disorienting.
• 14:53
  And so that was not quite in line with what he wanted for the
• 14:57
  opening sequence, which was to tell this really, you know,
• 14:59
  cool, interesting story of the scene of, you know, all these
• 15:02
  people getting to the beach. However, he had to just own that
• 15:07
  and say, you're right. That's not that's not the point
• 15:10
  of this. The point is not to get the
• 15:12
  frames and everything sort of stylized the way that I would
• 15:16
  like it. It needs to be true to the
• 15:19
  actual people who've experienced this.
• 15:21
  And so obviously it was difficult to keep in mind, you
• 15:24
  know, less choreography but keep safety the same.
• 15:27
  So that added a few new little caveats to their filming, but it
• 15:30
  ended up with really weird looking coverage.
• 15:34
  And all of a sudden they didn't get control over the actual
• 15:37
  visual clarity of this story. They didn't have control over
• 15:41
  the way the frames were set in the actual composition of all
• 15:44
  the shots. And he had to just accept that
• 15:46
  and admit it, because that was not the point, if that makes
• 15:50
  sense. The style and how pretty it
• 15:52
  looked wasn't the point. The feeling was the point and
• 15:55
  serving a very true memory. It turned into a one of the more
• 15:59
  epic. Yeah.
• 16:00
  Battle scenes. Ever filmed?
• 16:02
  Yeah, for sure. And that.
• 16:03
  And that was great humility on his part.
• 16:06
  Yeah, he just had to sit and listen, as opposed to just
• 16:10
  talking and saying my way or the highway, get off my set.
• 16:12
  Which I dig that I think a lot of times when we're writing
• 16:15
  scripts as indie film makers, it's really easy for us to have
• 16:19
  ideas completely outside of the realm of our expertise and we
• 16:24
  need to check ourselves when we're writing those scripts.
• 16:27
  Yeah. Check our facts, talk to
• 16:29
  somebody that's actually in whatever environment we're
• 16:32
  trying to write inside of. Yeah, and, and make sure that
• 16:36
  we're on the right path because having something that ends up
• 16:39
  being not realistic. I mean, obviously like with
• 16:42
  World War Two, you want to make sure because there's historians
• 16:45
  that are going to watch it and you're they're going to be
• 16:46
  checking your work and you want to make it as accurate as
• 16:48
  possible. But even on the indie film end,
• 16:51
  you know, if you're if you're writing about some, do you have
• 16:55
  an example? I have an example of every
• 16:58
  single movie that I wrote from high school to college involved
• 17:02
  people that only worked at either fast food places, there
• 17:06
  we go, restaurants or pizza delivery people because that was
• 17:09
  all we knew. Yeah.
• 17:10
  As far as careers went, those were the only careers we had any
• 17:13
  insight to. Yeah, if you're going to have a
• 17:15
  story about somebody working at the zoo, make sure, well one you
• 17:18
  have access to a zoo. And two.
• 17:20
  That you know. You know exactly what that job
• 17:23
  looks like and know some facts about the animals.
• 17:25
  You know, don't just guess. Don't break into the zoo.
• 17:27
  Yeah, don't do that. That'll scare the poor little
• 17:29
  animals. They don't need that.
• 17:30
  Yeah. Should we do a cheap trick?
• 17:32
  Should we share a cheap trick? Absolutely.
• 17:34
  We got a cheap trick from Michael Elder of Wicked Flicker
• 17:40
  Pictures. And he's seen that three times
• 17:42
  fast. I don't know if I want to I
• 17:44
  could try but so his idea is Sir or what he has done before is he
• 17:49
  uses a cardboard box and a push broom to make a fantastic low
• 17:54
  angle Dolly shot in a pinch. Which sounds glorious because I
• 17:58
  never considered that. But the broom after the bristles
• 18:02
  on the ground has enough tension to sort of slow it down and
• 18:05
  smooth out the motion. Yeah.
• 18:07
  So that actually in my mind. I haven't tested it yet, Neither
• 18:11
  have I, but now I really want to.
• 18:13
  Yeah, it's it's winter here. So I would imagine you have to
• 18:16
  do it in the garage. So or some type of fluorine
• 18:19
  that's very, very smooth. Nope, we're taking it onto
• 18:21
  carpeting. Here we go.
• 18:22
  Yeah, give it a shot. I.
• 18:23
  Wonder if I can do it out of my yard.
• 18:25
  I wonder if that works? That'd be fun.
• 18:27
  Just use a rake, have it bounce as you go on.
• 18:29
  That'll be good. So thanks so much Michael for
• 18:33
  that tip. If anyone out there wants to try
• 18:35
  it, let us know. Make sure your camera sturdily
• 18:38
  on the box. I would say maybe a little bit
• 18:41
  of foam inside the box and put the camera in the box and just
• 18:46
  cut the side of the box for your lens to rest on.
• 18:48
  So it's it's a little protected just in case I.
• 18:51
  Got a lip there? Yeah, or get really good
• 18:53
  insurance for. Or just try it on with one of
• 18:55
  your cheap cameras. Yeah, there we go.
• 18:57
  One of the old soccer mom cams that you still have, yeah.
• 19:00
  Try it that way, my Canon Vixia. So, so to counter the examples
• 19:05
  that we had there with Richard Linklater and Steven Spielberg,
• 19:08
  there's a kind of an interesting example that I have the opposite
• 19:12
  of of people keeping their egos in checks, and that's from the
• 19:17
  set, or excuse me, from the film American History X.
• 19:19
  The only time in history that's ever happened, yes.
• 19:22
  Yes, this is the only time that famous people ever let their
• 19:26
  egos get the best of them. But American History X is kind
• 19:29
  of an interesting story because the director, his name's Tony
• 19:33
  Fey, Since American History X, he really hasn't gone on to do
• 19:37
  anything nearly as famous as that.
• 19:39
  And what had happened is he cut this movie into like a 90
• 19:43
  minute, what he called like a 90 minute tight film.
• 19:46
  And allegedly Edward Norton had issues with that.
• 19:49
  So he went to the producers. This is all word of mouth,
• 19:53
  right? And so he went to the producers
• 19:55
  and said he's not going to promote this film unless he gets
• 19:57
  to take a look at it. And he was upset because he
• 20:00
  didn't have enough of himself, of his performance.
• 20:03
  In the film. So he did actually get a re edit
• 20:06
  in the meantime. Wow.
• 20:09
  In the meantime, Faye got extremely upset about the
• 20:14
  situation. He spent $100,000 of his own
• 20:17
  money on Hollywood press ads to badmouth the production.
• 20:20
  Wow, to sink his own ship. Yep.
• 20:24
  So he was, he sued to try to get his name off the as director of
• 20:28
  the film even, and that did not happen so.
• 20:33
  Let me just go with like find I'm not the editor then somebody
• 20:36
  else. Yeah, well, it.
• 20:38
  Was not my cut. It was the, it was the, it was
• 20:40
  the story that had been completely changed.
• 20:42
  So I don't, I don't know much about that.
• 20:44
  That was his first time directing like a major studio
• 20:47
  film. And so I'm not, I don't, I don't
• 20:50
  know much beside that. You can find interviews with him
• 20:52
  talking about it online. But yeah, it's, it's, it's
• 20:55
  pretty wild. So they, they got really upset
• 20:57
  with each other. And I mean honestly, you don't
• 20:59
  really see either of those to working that much like I think
• 21:04
  Edward Norton, I haven't seen him in anything and.
• 21:06
  Well, he went straight from that to death to smoochy.
• 21:08
  I mean, how do you top that? Yeah, and then Incredible Hulk,
• 21:11
  yeah as well. But then they nixed him as The
• 21:13
  Incredible Hulk in favor of Mark Ruffalo, because Mark Ruffalo is
• 21:17
  Mark Ruffalo. Mark Ruffalo.
• 21:19
  Not that I care about any of that Marvel crap, but God
• 21:24
  anyway, so. Is that why?
• 21:26
  Is that why we started this podcast?
• 21:28
  So that you could talk about how much you hate Marvel films.
• 21:32
  Yes, excellent transition, Victoria.
• 21:35
  That is why we started this podcast was to shit on Marvel
• 21:38
  films. No, just kidding.
• 21:40
  We started this podcast because we did want to give ourselves
• 21:43
  reminders of all of the mistakes that we've made as we're
• 21:48
  following this creative process and trying to make films and in
• 21:54
  in hopes of normalizing it a little bit.
• 21:57
  Because I feel like when you are a film maker, you get a lot of
• 22:02
  people involved on your productions.
• 22:04
  You do sometimes, or you do it all yourself, yeah.
• 22:06
  So yes, yes, Andy Blythe from, from, I think that was last
• 22:10
  week's episode. He does it all himself.
• 22:12
  But you do end up spending a lot of time.
• 22:15
  You get a lot of people spending a lot of time on your projects,
• 22:18
  and then sometimes you end up with something that's less than
• 22:21
  ideal, and that is a bummer. But then when it's done, it's
• 22:26
  really hard for you to take an objective, look at it, and then
• 22:29
  also lick all those cast and crew in the face that helped you
• 22:33
  on that project and be like, oh boy.
• 22:36
  This didn't quite. Turn out the way I expected it
• 22:39
  to. You're working on a micro
• 22:40
  budget. You can't really go back a lot
• 22:42
  of times and get pick up shots. That's not an option.
• 22:47
  So it's kind of like it's a hard decision to be to, to just leave
• 22:52
  a project as it is and, you know, lick your wounds, learn
• 22:57
  and move on to the next one. It's it's not an easy thing to
• 23:00
  do with all the time and effort that goes into these projects.
• 23:03
  But at the same time, I feel like it does need to be more
• 23:06
  normalized because not everybody is producing A+ work every
• 23:14
  single time they make a film or any form of art.
• 23:17
  No, and the idea that you would be expected to do that or that
• 23:21
  film makers have to be held to that standard is ridiculous
• 23:26
  because that's not that's not the way it is.
• 23:28
  I mean, how many people were trying to bash Taylor Swift's
• 23:31
  latest album? Right.
• 23:32
  And I'm not saying that because like, that's the end all be all
• 23:35
  of music. I'm saying that because she's an
• 23:37
  easily recognized artist that many people have heard of.
• 23:41
  And Taylor who exactly? So if she can release an album
• 23:46
  that suddenly has a bunch of people going, Actually no, she
• 23:48
  totally missed it on this one. Like there's like maybe 2 tracks
• 23:51
  on there I like and then everyone else is just really
• 23:55
  upset about the rest of the songs on it.
• 23:56
  Then it's like, well, OK, does that make any of the last albums
• 24:03
  less successful? No.
• 24:05
  Is that going to mean that her next album won't be a success
• 24:08
  either? No.
• 24:10
  It just means that this one didn't hit the nail on the head.
• 24:14
  No. And you got to, you got to swing
• 24:16
  for the fences sometimes I feel like, especially if you're an
• 24:18
  indie artist. Always.
• 24:20
  Because it's it's better to to take the risks and do the thing
• 24:23
  that's more creative than walk down the middle of the road and
• 24:26
  try to compete with, I don't know, Marvel films.
• 24:28
  Yeah, that are going to be putting out the same formula
• 24:31
  film over and over and over again, but telling you it's a
• 24:33
  different surprising little twist.
• 24:34
  Yes. Or.
• 24:36
  Anything on Netflix now after watching Stranger Things and
• 24:39
  those two shots? Oh my God, so many you.
• 24:43
  Just hit no, we hit the trifecta here.
• 24:46
  We just on Taylor Swift, Stranger Things and Marvel.
• 24:49
  We're going down. This was a great podcast.
• 24:51
  We had a lovely run. We're going to quit complaining
• 24:55
  about ourselves and just bitch about the major studios drivel
• 24:59
  that they put out. Oh my God.
• 25:01
  But yeah, watch, watch those two shots.
• 25:03
  Sorry, I just after Stranger things.
• 25:05
  I'm like, you're just in this. Not all of Stranger Things, just
• 25:08
  the. Oh, the most recent season.
• 25:10
  Yeah, yes. Yes, I'll.
• 25:12
  Clarify that that 1 didn't live. The final season, let's let's
• 25:14
  spend half the time doing a two shot.
• 25:16
  We should break that down. We should compare Season 1
• 25:19
  versus Season 7 or whatever, and we'll just start our top, our
• 25:23
  stopwatch anytime. They just get locked into one of
• 25:25
  those two shots where people are.
• 25:26
  Like how many hours? Explaining their their feelings
• 25:29
  or just like pushing forward the plot.
• 25:34
  Tell us how you really feel about this track.
• 25:36
  That's I OK, so I don't have to hold back anymore.
• 25:42
  Yeah. Like, you know, I think on
• 25:44
  behalf of our lawyer that we don't have, we're going to move
• 25:47
  on. We're going to move on on the.
• 25:50
  Topic. So on the topic of egos, yeah
• 25:57
  Chuck, have you ever wondered if you're a narcissist?
• 25:59
  Oh, you know what? I want to find out if I am.
• 26:02
  Do you have a method for that? I do, actually.
• 26:05
  I put together a lovely little quiz, OK, because I know that
• 26:09
  when you start talking about egos and film, people can get a
• 26:14
  little bit nervous that maybe they might be being called a
• 26:18
  narcissist. And I would like to point out
• 26:20
  the rarity of actual narcissistic personality
• 26:23
  disorders. Incredibly rare, but.
• 26:26
  Unless you get into a boardroom at a Fortune 500 company.
• 26:30
  Or any tech company anyway. Not the point anyway.
• 26:36
  So first of all, if you're at all excited about a quiz and
• 26:38
  wondering if you are in fact a narcissist, odds are good you
• 26:42
  are not. You are safe.
• 26:43
  This is not about you. And also, this quiz is just for
• 26:47
  entertainment purposes. Chuck on set when someone gives
• 26:51
  you feedback, your first internal reaction is A.
• 26:55
  Oh cool, that's helpful B. I'll think about it later C.
• 26:59
  They just don't understand my vision C.
• 27:02
  They don't understand the answer is always C anyway.
• 27:04
  They just don't understand my vision.
• 27:06
  They just don't understand. OK, All right.
• 27:08
  Question 2. When talking about a project
• 27:11
  that you worked on, you a talk about the team and what you
• 27:14
  learned. B talk about your role
• 27:17
  specifically. C Accidentally tell the story
• 27:21
  like you were the only person there.
• 27:23
  Oh, you actually just reminded me of an experience that I had
• 27:26
  on set. Can I tell you about this?
• 27:28
  Absolutely. OK, no go.
• 27:30
  Ahead All right, question three. Someone else gets praise for
• 27:34
  work you were also involved in. You A feel genuinely happy for
• 27:39
  them, B feel happy but maybe a little annoyed, or C immediately
• 27:44
  explain your contribution. I just want everybody out there
• 27:47
  to know that I did help put this quiz together.
• 27:50
  No, I'm scared. This is all Vic.
• 27:54
  But I did like that. That was well done, Well done.
• 27:57
  You're the perfect like, not personification, but
• 28:01
  exemplification of everything that I'm bringing up here
• 28:03
  beautifully. Done.
• 28:04
  I'll keep. I'll try to keep it.
• 28:06
  Up OK for when promoting your work online, you feel a mildly
• 28:11
  awkward but fine, B deeply uncomfortable or C personally
• 28:17
  attacked if it doesn't perform well.
• 28:20
  Oh my gosh you should see the last vertical video that I got
• 28:25
  that didn't even get anywhere close to 1000 views.
• 28:27
  No I don't know how to make a joke about that one but that's
• 28:29
  OK. Obviously personally attacked if
• 28:31
  people are ignoring my online presence.
• 28:33
  Obviously. OK, five last question when
• 28:37
  listening to this quiz, Yeah, your main thought has been A oh,
• 28:42
  that's me sometimes, B Wow, I've definitely done a few of these,
• 28:47
  or C I know exactly who this episode is about.
• 28:52
  I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?
• 28:53
  I was thinking about this really awesome project I have that I'm
• 28:56
  gonna be working on as soon as we're done with this podcast.
• 28:58
  I wasn't really paying attention.
• 29:00
  I just. Wasn't listening whatsoever.
• 29:02
  OK, so if you've answered mostly A's, you're fine.
• 29:06
  Maybe you need a little bit of confidence most.
• 29:08
  If you've answered a nice mix of AB and even an occasional C,
• 29:11
  guess what? You're human.
• 29:13
  Congratulations, you're just human, just like the rest of us.
• 29:17
  And if it was nothing but C's or you spent the entire time
• 29:21
  genuinely thinking, no, I know who this is, I know who this is.
• 29:25
  Like, you know, maybe you just check your ego a little bit
• 29:28
  sometimes and that's OK. It's OK to have an ego in an
• 29:32
  industry that's kind of designed to constantly bash yours down.
• 29:36
  For sure. Not bad to know how to build
• 29:38
  your own ego up. Just make sure that it doesn't
• 29:40
  prevent you from working with people that you otherwise
• 29:42
  wouldn't, making new connections or kind of branching outside
• 29:46
  your your regular purview in your day-to-day.
• 29:48
  I like that. Well, shall we move on to the
• 29:51
  Featured Filmmaker of the Week this week?
• 29:53
  I think we absolutely should, OK?
• 29:56
  I am really excited about this one.
• 29:57
  So today's Featured Filmmaker of the Week is Maria Tran, the
• 30:01
  driving force behind Australia's first female led independent
• 30:04
  action movie. In 2024 she directed, produce
• 30:08
  and starred in the film E8. It was shot for $6500 and she
• 30:15
  leveraged that film to raise $30,000 to film 2 sequels to
• 30:20
  create an E8 trilogy. E8 is now streaming on Amazon.
• 30:25
  And during the first E8 shoot, Maria says every day, something
• 30:29
  went wrong. A location fell through, gear
• 30:31
  failed, a scene had to be reblocked minutes before
• 30:34
  rolling. Ego didn't survive that shoot,
• 30:37
  but problem solving did. Some of my proudest twins aren't
• 30:40
  flashy. Learning how to communicate
• 30:42
  better with collaborators, training my body for the
• 30:44
  physical demands of indie action, and building the
• 30:47
  discipline to sustain a long term creative life.
• 30:50
  I stopped waiting for ideal conditions and started trusting
• 30:52
  momentum, clarity, and resilience.
• 30:55
  Chaos didn't ruin the film, it shaped it.
• 30:57
  And honestly, I wouldn't trade that lesson for a bigger budget.
• 31:01
  Nice. So, Maria, you're a badass.
• 31:03
  Absolutely. Way to way to take your film
• 31:06
  that you basically put together with your friends and family and
• 31:09
  other talented people that were, I would imagine, volunteering
• 31:12
  their time at $6500. Yeah, you probably weren't
• 31:14
  paying them a great deal. And then if you go onto their
• 31:16
  website, you can see that they did leverage that into
• 31:19
  crowdfunding $30,000, which is which is huge.
• 31:23
  That is such a big, but especially for crowdfunding
• 31:26
  nowadays, Yeah, because that kind of money doesn't come along
• 31:30
  everyday in crowdfunding funding.
• 31:32
  So good on you. Yeah, that's awesome.
• 31:35
  That's such a good formula for us to consider.
• 31:38
  I know and Congrats on like come on 1st like female led indie
• 31:43
  action flick out of Australia. Yes, I'm obsessed with that.
• 31:48
  I'm just in awe entirely and can't wait for the next two
• 31:51
  movies to come out so right. On we'll be looking forward to.
• 31:53
  It stay tuned, we'll post the link in the description.
• 31:55
  All right, should we move on to a more serious topic for the end
• 31:58
  of this podcast? Probably.
• 32:00
  OK. So just point of reference, we
• 32:03
  are recording this episode on January 26th and a couple days
• 32:09
  ago there were a lot of events that happened in Minneapolis,
• 32:12
  MN. I get a little emotional about
• 32:14
  this because I have a lot of friends and family in
• 32:17
  Minneapolis. And one of the things that we
• 32:19
  talked about is kind of like sharing some ideas on what we
• 32:24
  can do as film makers, as editors, as videographers to
• 32:32
  help out in the certain, the, the current state of the United
• 32:36
  States. Because there are a lot of awful
• 32:40
  things going on in this country. And, and Minneapolis is kind of
• 32:45
  the, the, the flashpoint, it feels like at this juncture.
• 32:49
  And I want to be able to help my friends.
• 32:52
  And the only thing that I've been able to do is send money to
• 32:55
  donate to, you know, food banks, shelters in that area.
• 33:00
  So do you have any ideas on ways I can help my friends out
• 33:04
  besides the ways that they've given me as a video creator?
• 33:08
  Yeah, I think 11 important thing that we all share as film makers
• 33:14
  is to be storytellers and not to tell the stories that are not to
• 33:20
  turn it into a Marvel joke again.
• 33:22
  But they are not the stories that the big budget studios are
• 33:25
  excited to tell because they're the stories that are real, the
• 33:28
  stories that we feel and see and experience every single day in
• 33:32
  whatever situation or whatever part of the world that we're in.
• 33:35
  And it is more important now than ever as a filmmaker, as a
• 33:41
  storyteller, as a collaborator and an artist to to be able to
• 33:48
  tell the stories nobody else is willing to.
• 33:52
  I think that's the most important thing that we can do
• 33:55
  is share those bits of truth to to anyone who says, well, that
• 34:01
  can't possibly be happening, that can't possibly be real.
• 34:04
  This is a great opportunity for us to very visually illustrate
• 34:08
  to everyone what is real. Yeah.
• 34:11
  And use your ability to operate a camera to try to capture some
• 34:14
  of these movements if you do have the the the capacity to if
• 34:18
  if you if you feel inclined to do so.
• 34:21
  Yeah. And obviously that's not a a
• 34:23
  mandate of please go take all of your gear and for no payment or
• 34:29
  reward whatsoever, go stand out in the streets and do your best
• 34:33
  to to film every single thing that's happened.
• 34:35
  It's not because we've also seen that people are going to try to
• 34:40
  say that doesn't you can't trust what you see anymore.
• 34:43
  And we're going to have people trying to gaslight you left and
• 34:45
  right on what's real and what's not real and.
• 34:47
  It's not and it's not safe any longer necessarily to do those
• 34:51
  things like go out with your camera.
• 34:52
  No, unfortunately. But staying very true to
• 34:56
  yourself, building up your community, staying close with
• 34:59
  your community and in close contact with your community, and
• 35:02
  truly doing your best to tell your story as it's happening to
• 35:09
  you. Don't give somebody else the
• 35:12
  opportunity to tell your story for you.
• 35:13
  Absolutely. And we all are familiar with
• 35:15
  that as as video editors and you know, there's, there's a lot
• 35:19
  going on in there. And for those of you outside of
• 35:21
  the United States, I would imagine some of you are aware of
• 35:25
  the situation that's unfolding here in our country.
• 35:28
  And I'm sure that you're probably experiencing your own.
• 35:33
  Oh yeah, there's plenty going on elsewhere and, and sorry if we
• 35:36
  haven't talked more about that. We don't want to speak from a
• 35:39
  place of ignorance, being perfectly honest.
• 35:40
  Yeah, we have a lot going on here.
• 35:42
  So it's been tricky, especially with the, you know, the
• 35:45
  connection that, that, that I have with Minneapolis.
• 35:48
  Like I said, friends, family, we had amazing screening there just
• 35:51
  just two summers ago Yeah. And I, I go out, I go out there
• 35:55
  every year, every other year to visit friends.
• 35:58
  And obviously, like now's at a time when it's not going to
• 36:01
  happen. And it, it saddens me.
• 36:02
  But yeah, like point, point the camera if you can, and, and get,
• 36:09
  get good footage and get, get factual stuff, you know, get
• 36:13
  stuff that's, that's clean, that's, that's indisputable,
• 36:17
  right? I mean, I mean, people will just
• 36:19
  try to dispute it anyway, but which is unfortunate, but.
• 36:23
  But hey, and also, don't let those things stop you from being
• 36:29
  an artist and a creative right now, because it doesn't.
• 36:32
  Art doesn't matter less. In times of chaos, I think it
• 36:37
  matters more, and it tends to be toward the forefront of any sort
• 36:41
  of change or evolution. So.
• 36:42
  Yeah, use that power. Yeah, we'll do our best to join
• 36:46
  you all on that, using our power of storytelling for good rather
• 36:51
  than for evil. Yeah, which now does really
• 36:54
  sound a little bit like a Marvel film.
• 36:55
  So hey, that's exciting. We made it back.
• 36:59
  Yeah, look at us go. Don't let Marvel cancel us.
• 37:02
  No, no. Still very unentertaining
• 37:04
  experience, whether it's this or Marvel film, but I guess with
• 37:08
  that, shall we succinctly say farewell?
• 37:11
  I think so. Excellent.
• 37:12
  Thank you all and goodbye. Bye.