Latest / Dark Night of the Podcast / Episode 196-Siege (1983)

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Episode 196-Siege (1983) · Dark Night of the Podcast

• Roger: Halloween season is just around the corner, Dark Knight of the Podcast listeners, family, and friends. And we all know this is truly our favorite time of year. I mean, you talk to anyone who's a horror movie fan and they're gonna tell you that Halloween season there's nothing like it, you know, and it's not just because we love horror movies. It's just the vibe, it's the mood, it's the weather, it's the chill in the air, it's the perfect time of the year to consume. horror movies. And I have to say a little bit of shame on me because I'm gonna be honest, the film that I picked for today's episode is not what I would call by any means a Halloween title, if you will. It's act actually almost the opposite in a way. It's very serious, very dry, and very strangely relevant on a political level. But I do feel that the title that we pick today is Still very timely and very appropriate for the here and now because right after Halloween season, we're going into the midterms. And I don't want to be a Debbie Downer by any means here, and I don't want to get too political, but I do think that this film that we're going to be covering today feels like the right choice. It may not be a Troy Escamilla: Mm-hmm. Roger: Halloween title, but it's still the right choice considering what we're going to be going through in the next few weeks. big changes ahead, hopefully. but yeah, I hope you all are able to enjoy something that's a little bit more serious in tone than I think you might have anticipated for the Halloween season. And I can assure you that Troy's next title, which we're gonna try to get out just in time for Halloween, will be significantly more. Seasonal up seasonally appropriate, wouldn't you say Troy Escamilla: Yeah. it Roger: Troy? Troy Escamilla: yes, it it takes place on Halloween. So what more do you want? y you know me, I pull I pull all the obscure shit from the eighties, and I have the perfect title for us to cover for next week for Halloween. I will say I am I just realized I am giving our people that watch us because we do post the clips now on YouTube, I am giving them something pretty scary, Roger, because I just noticed I have a big old zit right on my nose. You see it? boy. boy just Roger: Well, with the new updates here on Riverside, I could have Troy Escamilla: wrote Just remove the blig old kno big old knockers, we we love that. Roger: I could have digitally removed that probably, I'm sure. Gone in and given you a facelift for all the boys. Big old knockers. There's I don't support AI for anything unless it's given Troy double D's. And then dry up the lakes. Go for it. If it's gonna give Troy big old honkers, then I'm here for it. but no, I've got to say Riverside has really done us well in the sense that I think lately we've been dropping a lot of exciting material, lots of visual material. we're very thankful and very grateful to have a platform or an editing tool at least that gives us so many capabilities, things that we would not have been able to do even maybe three, four years ago, or or you know, almost six years ago when we started this, to be honest. But I do want to acknowledge that, while we're still really getting in the in the swing of things with keeping our social media present and and keeping up with just being a a a presence for our supporters through what is a really, really busy and a hectic time. And we've been talking about this a lot. And I do think it's important that I note this before we get into the episode. I just want to kind of put this out there because this is something Troy and I have been talking about for a while. And we're coming up on our 200th episode. And I just wanna be transparent with y'all as we get ready to go into another year. It's gonna be 2027. And Troy and I both are lucky enough to be helming some mighty ships of our own in the sense of our films that we've been taking through the film festival process. And now we're getting ready for distribution. And it's been a lot. It's been a lot. I know Troy will attest. It's been quite a journey. but I am getting ready to take a brief And I'm not going to say this is in any way a permanent decision, but I'm getting ready to take a small hiatus from Dark Knight of the Podcast. I'm gonna be stepping back a bit. I'm still going to be present. And Troy and I are talking about ways of maintaining our presence as we have been, you know, cultivating a following and and a listenership. We don't want to lose that. but I do feel that right now, if there is ever a time to take a seasonal break for me. The transition into 2027 is a necessary time to do that. And so we are going to be going on a bit of a brief hiatus. It doesn't mean we're going to be gone completely. Expect to see material from us over the next couple months as we kind of figure out our next steps forward and how we're going to reformat things to make this sustainable for both of us as we, you know, continue with our lives and pursue other endeavors. We want to give you something consistent and something that you can expect on a regular basis, without having it be something where all of a sudden we go radio silent for three weeks because lately that's kind of had to have been the case. And it really is just because of opportunities that have presented themselves. I like to think on on both accounts, right, Troy? Troy Escamilla: Yeah, it has been the last several months have been consumed with our films, film festivals, attending these film festivals and then other things, just life, personal things popping up. and but and by no means I don't think either of us are saying we are ending this podcast permanently. I think it might just be a scale back where where Roger and I where Roger and I come on maybe once once every month or every other month to do an episode. You might Get some radio silence. I might be it might be an opportunity to bring on guests again. we used to do that quite a bit when Roger was filming meet. We had several strings of guest hosts. and then maybe just even, you know, throw throwing a a little mix up in like what we particularly cover on the podcast as as well, you know. because I certainly don't want to lose the podcast and lose the the hard work, the years that we've put into it to build it to 200 episodes. I don't want to lose a fan base. And but it is, you know, it is a a It's time, we w you have to reevaluate things that are that are taking up time in your life when you get to a certain point, right? and I think that's kind of what we're we're doing right now. and again, it's not an end. I just think you might just expect maybe a s a scaled back dark night of the podcast. Roger: Absolutely. And I think it's going to just be scaled back, at least to accommodate for what we need personally for ourselves right now. with intentions of coming back in the future in a more set in stone and consistent and regular format. Because like one thing to acknowledge here is while we have been pursuing our film careers, the podcast has only been beneficial. we have to acknowledge that we're so thankful to all of you who have continued to listen to us and maintain us at a four point nine on Apple Podcasts, which truthfully is shocking. Like I don't fucking know why, but thank you. Like I'm happy to know that, you know, we're not just blowing smoke out there and nobody seeing it. Like, you know, know that all are listening and actually supporting us is r is really fulfilling. And this is one of the big reasons I think Troy and I do this. so just know to expect. A little bit less material, at least now we're saying it for you to anticipate that. But the material we will be dropping, though it may not be as often, is going to be just as good, if not fucking better. I'm telling you right now, I know Troy's got some some some secrets hidden between those knockers as he's ready to unleash. Titles, movies that you all have been wanting to cover. and yeah, like you mentioned, some some specialty episodes as well. Maybe some guests. There's a lot of exciting things ahead for us. and right now, at least anticipate through Halloween that we're gonna be dropping a few more consistent episodes that are gonna be perfect for this season. Troy Escamilla: we are we we are making it to two hundred. I I we're making it beyond two hundred. Let's get that clear. But our goal was to get to two hundred and then, you know, implement this this this change in in format or change in the the frequency that we put out episodes. And I think that that it's not a bad thing. Even if we guys, even if we put out an episode a month, you would know that w we're gonna put all of our passion and wit and and and just opinions and whatnot into that film. I think what we've run into is trying to get an episode out every week has just been a real challenge with what's going on in our lives. And I think that's that I think that's just what it is, right? I think a Roger: Yeah. Troy Escamilla: one episode a month is way more manageable than trying to do, you know, four or one a week because you guys don't realize I don't think and I'm we'll get to the film. I'm just mentioning this to you because hey, we we spilled the beans here. It's a a lot of work goes into creating one of these episodes. we watch the film several times. We take I take detailed notes. Roger takes detailed notes. The editing process is time consuming. so there it's a lot. But with that said, we're not quitting. That's not what we're saying, just twenty twenty seven. It might be scaled back. Instead of getting, fifty four episodes in in twenty twenty seven, you might get ten or twelve. Be happy. We're not going anywhere. And when our lives get back on track and we're like, hey, let's get back into it, we we might barrel towards three hundred. We you never know. Roger: My goal is to come back on more consistently when I got a nice fucking distribution deal for Meet the Movie. Maybe there's some news dropping soon. And Troy and I are both then back on the air talking Troy Escamilla: Ooh. Roger: about movies while promoting two movies that are actually available for you to watch. So that's my goal. Putting my all into getting meat out there and make it attainable for the viewership that I've developed and and then revisit this on a more consistent basis with hopefully a bigger following. Can you imagine Troy? If we broke a hundred reviews on Apple Apple Podcasts, that would be truly delightful and it would make me very excited. but right now I'm excited to discuss this title because as I mentioned at the start of this, while this certainly is not the most seasonal selection, if you will, considering that it's the Halloween season, this really doesn't have anything to do with that. this does feel politically like the right film to cover. I had a gut feeling it was going to be when I selected it. I had never seen this film before. And so after viewing it, I feel especially confident in selecting this film. And the and the film we're gonna be covering today, I'll just put it out there right now, is 1983's Siege, which is a Canadian exploitation film, I suppose, if you will. I've seen it referenced as such multiple times. Also known as self-defense when it was initially released. but it's a film I've heard so much about for so long. And I've just been wanting to watch it. It's been on my list. I've been keeping my eye on it, and I always pick another title. And I was finally like, you know what? I'm feeling politically distraught right now, stressed out of my mind. What better way to vent that frustration than by watching a film that feels relevant. and from what I had heard, Troy, I I had a gut feeling that this was going to feel relevant, But I had no idea, Troy, just how directly this title was going to really impact me. I mean, as a gay man and a progressive minded person, I I had no idea just how impactful this film was going to be. And I I'm really happy that it was the one that I went with. I'm happy I went with my gut on this one. Troy, you had never seen this film before, correct? Troy Escamilla: No, and I do think it's important to point out that this was not the film that we were going to cover. I because people that listened to our last episode, Killer Party, were expecting it to be what, the I Eyes of the Gods or some I remember Rat Chihuahua or Dox and Rats was what it was. And after Roger announced it, we went on, we realized it's it's available nowhere, like nowhere to stream. I think I just it's nowhere. It was on Tubi, and I think it just the timing, right after Roger picked it, they must have removed it. So we did not get to see Dachshunds. Dressed as giant rats. I was crushed. and Roger, I told Roger, I Roger, I don't think it's streaming. He's like, God damn it. Okay, so here are three titles and he threw them out. And Siege definitely caught my attention because it's one we've talked about before. I've never seen it, but I knew I knew it was like, it's like a Sold on Precinct 13, but it takes place at a gay bar. I was expecting the whole film to take place at a gay bar. That was my expectation going in, honestly. but watching this film, yeah, it's it's pretty intense. It's pretty It's pretty bare bones, but I I think that's maybe what makes it so effective is how bare bones it is. It's literally just I mean, almost the entire film is almost one location that is really claustrophobic and complicated to to get the sense of the the layout. But yeah, I had never seen it. And I think, yes, with I the the the climate the way it is, the political climate the way it is, this film definitely feels relevant to to talk about right now. Roger: Yeah, I think it was fate, if you will, that opted to not give us Deadly Eyes. That was that was the initial Troy Escamilla: Deadly eyes. Roger: selection, Deadly Eyes. which I I swear to God was available, and was available recently because I remember seeing the promotional art for it. But sometimes, you know, when you look up something and you look at the streaming surfaces that are listed and it'll say fucking Tubi, and then you'll finally get to it and it says not available now, but coming back soon. Fuck off Tubi with that nonsense. Troy Escamilla: It's gone. That's that's that that's had that's happened to us a couple times. That happened with Nurse 3D. and then it happened to a couple titles previously where we Yeah, where yeah, the Ripper's Letter from Hell, Roger: Ripper For years Troy Escamilla: it was on there for years. And then the second we were like, We're gonna cover it. too many's like, fuck you are. but yes. Roger: Fuckers. Fuckers depriving us of dachshunds and rat costumes. But we'll get it one day. Troy Escamilla: I wanted to see that stuff. I did watch a clip of one of them attacking a baby, though. There is a clip on YouTube you can watch of one of the little baby in a baby, a toddler in a high chair eating his breakfast, and one of those docs and rats comes out of the basement and drags the baby down into the basement. Watch it. It's I Roger: Do you think the baby dies? Troy Escamilla: think yes, it's covered in blood. The mom goes, go watch the clip. It's on to you, it's on YouTube. I was like, this is what Roger: No. Troy Escamilla: we are missing out on. Damn it. Roger: God damn it. Well well, we're not ending this podcast till we cover deadly fucking eyes. I'll tell you that much. But right now, it's all about siege, aka self-defense. Both titles work for me, honestly. but yes, I mean, Troy, you gave a really good like baseline description. I went in expecting yeah, pr Assault on Precinct 13. I'd I'd heard it compared to your next kind of vibes before. And that all makes sense because it is Very claustrophobic. It is extremely claustrophobic. A lot of it does have to do with the location that they're in. A lot of it also does have to do with like the just the cinematography style. I get a I get shades of Romero in this film. And it makes sense. It came out in 1983. you know, this is clearly an independent production, and I think a lot of films of that era have Romero to thank, especially when it came to injecting Roman. political and social commentary into their material. That was that was very popular. because when you couldn't make up for the budget, you you made up for it instead with the context of what you're creating. And that that really works in this film's favor because the bare bones aspect does not turn me off at all. And in fact, I I do feel it really works in its favor because the thing about this film that makes it so effective is it feels very believable. Even in the moments where some of the acting may be Flat and very of the era, because you definitely get a lot of that. Even in moments where the sound design and the sound effects are actually quite awful. I can look and listen past that because the situation these are characters are in, and for the most part, their responses to what is happening feel very human. Very human. None of these characters are perfect. They're kind of thrust into the situation where they have to make a life or death, death call. To defend and protect a character who happens to be gay, and we'll really get into that in a moment. But I feel that from their initial hesitancy to their eventual gung-ho willingness to support one another and work together as a team is something we've seen before, but there's something just really fresh about it here. It's something about the cast, how they communicate with each other, how they work together. It really, for me personally, blew me away. This film left a very good impression. And I went in thinking there's a chance I might like it. And I left it extremely impressed for an array of reasons. And we're gonna get into all of that. Troy Escamilla: I'm glad I'm glad you mentioned the acting because I do say, I will say, the acting is perhaps some of the worst I've seen. it really is. and th that should have Roger been distracting for me. because there there is I don't even wouldn't even claim to say there's one good actor in this film. Maybe, maybe the lead Horatio. But every other character, their line delivery is just so flat and wooded and just non-affected, it's it's really weird. I I don't think nob anybody delivers lines in a way that's realistic to the situation. And again, normally I would be like turd that would bother me. I it doesn't in this film because there is, even though the acting is bad, you really get a sense that these are like real people. Does that make sense? Like these are lived in characters. The second you are introduced to the to the protagonists in this apartment complex, they feel real. They feel lived in. They feel like this feels authentic. It almost feels document documentarian. I think that's where you can get maybe the Romero vibe too, because a lot of people think that Nine of the Living Dead has that documentary feel to it. I think this does incredibly well with that, handling that, even though the acting may not be up to par on any level. but I I do think that like the premise of the film itself, I think we should get into it. It's it it takes place in Halifax. Canada and just the basic premise of the film is almost like it's like a maybe a purge type premise because the cops are all on strike. They're striking for better wages. So in the minds of the of criminals in Halifax, they pretty much have free reign to do whatever the fuck they want because they know the cops aren't coming if you call them. Roger: Well, this is this aspect is is based on things on real events. I mean, Troy Escamilla: Yes. Roger: this this police strike did actually happen. The early newsreel footage you see at the start of the film is real and boy does it feel it. It's really a a good solid impression when the film starts rolling. Even those stark credits, before you see any footage, you hear this phenomenal score that incorporates a lot of elements of synth and it really creates this. Ominous, foreboding sense of dread over these very simple, just red font on black screen credits. And then it has that eerie shot of the sun setting over Halifax, and it goes to that newsreel footage, and it sets such a great tone for the film. And you mentioned, you know, documentary style filmmaking. I mean, opening with that footage really gives that impression for sure. And I think you're absolutely right. You hit the nail on the head. This is clearly an independent production. There are moments the acting is quite bad. I'll just say it. There's clearly a lot of dubbing in the film. Like there are a lot of moments where you can hear the separation in the performance. the character of Ian specifically, one of the villains. I think almost all of his lines are dubbed because they're very flat. But there are several moments when I am very confident it's not dubbed, where the performances are elevated. and I'll point those moments out as well because I do think there are. There are a few moments in this film that are actually quite effective. but yes, you gotta get through some rough wooden acting. But I'm fine with it because of e exactly what you said. The story itself is so interesting. And I absolutely agree that this had to set the b the groundwork for what was the purge and the the purge franchise. this is significantly smaller in in context and scale, but it's significantly more believable as well. The idea that the city basically shuts down because there is no police force. The police are on strike. And so the citizens are put in the position where they basically have to bunker down until this is done. And and criminals are running wild on the street driving, what was it, driving forklifts or whatever the fuck it was, down Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: highways. I mean, it looks like a lot of nonsense, but they don't spend too much time going into what else is going on around. The events that are about to transpire. And while I would have liked to have seen maybe more of the chaos to understand just how large of a scale this is and what the city was really dealing with. Was there a lot of violence going on? other events that are unfolding, you know, that maybe were as severe, if not more so, than what's about to happen here. I really don't mind it because I like that you jump right into the story. You jump right into the story. And one thing I did send Troy, I have to acknowledge, is actually a scene that was omitted from the final cut of the film that was going to give you a bit more of a pre-establishment to what like to the one of the villains specifically and and kind of set the groundwork for this character. And they chose to cut the scene and just jump right into the story. And I think that was such a wise decision because these villains, as we're about to come and to find out, are not characters that I need to know anything about. I need to have no elements of sympathy. for them. I think that they give us exactly what we need to know about these people. These are shitty fucking people. I absolutely believe that people like this exist. And I am given just enough to know exactly what these individuals are up to, how they operate, what they think. I don't need to know anything about their home lives. I don't need to know anything about what they go home to aside from maybe a great reveal at the end of the film. I just need to know going into this that these are shitty Basically, white supremacist neo Nazis who are now given free reign to spread their terror across Halifax. And that is where the film begins. And I think it's a very effective note to start on. What do you think? Troy Escamilla: Yeah, well yeah. So the film, guys, if you've never seen Siege, currently, currently we're gonna say currently, as of today, it's still on Tubi. it's on Tubi. And the the the version on Tubi is the the is the the the the version that has the it's the theatrical cough cut version, so it's the version that has the whole scene admit omitted. You can watch the original version on YouTube. It's on YouTube as well, but the the version on YouTube has the the long extended opening scene with the main villain intact. And I will say I think removing it was definitely the right choice. getting right into the action because right after this the the newsreel about the the the police being on strike, you get right into it. It wastes no time. Like the the car pulls up, these fucking thugs led by led by Goose, his name's Goose Roger, they get get out of this car, they get like baseball bats and pieces of wood. And they very intimidatingly start bashing, beating the baseball bats against their their hands. And they walk into this building. It just look there's no there's no markings on this building as far as what it is, right? This gay this gay bar is in the basement of a of a building. It's not like advertised, but they know it's there. They know it's been in their neighborhood. So they go into this gay bar where just you know, have gays and lesbians just trying to have a good time in a space that should be their safe space. And in walk these thugs. and they're bashing the baseball bats against their their arms and their hands, and they're just right away just there to terrorize these these poor homosexuals that just want to dance and have have drinks. And you got that poor bartender behind the the counter in his sailor suit, just looking terrified, petrified as a goddamn goat. he's just so s and I would like I would run out of like I I'm sorry, if I was in that bar and these guys walked in, I would have ran I would have ran out. I would have because I y you know this is not gonna end well. Roger: One of them tries to. I I one of the twinks, rest his soul, tries to make a run for it and they they beat him to the ground. Yeah, he gets kicked in the ribcage. They spit on him. And Troy Escamilla: and he gets kicked. Yeah, they they push him to the ground. Yeah. Ugh. Roger: like, you know, clearly this is a a queer podcast. And I, you know, we use it for mostly for our humor. I d I don't think we always make it the main focus of every film that we cover. But with a title like this, like i it it's inevitable that we have to talk about how this aspect Of the film is handled. And if anything impresses me about this film, it's the fact that this film was made in 1983. Well, released in 1983. So technically probably filmed a little bit earlier. And it chooses to address the material it's addressing. Because yes, these queer individuals are clearly just trying to live their lives. They're dancing, they're having a drink after a long fucking day that one poor lesbian. Well, two, technically, but the one trembling in the arms of her lover who's playing with her hair when these men come in and they immediately go over to the women and start harassing them. And I just so greatly appreciate that they didn't try to make these characters feel like overblown stereotypes. And they never tried to make it feel as though they in any way earned what happens to them. All of these characters are looked at through a very sympathetic lens. They are treated just like average everyday people. And it is through the approach and the initial the initial dialogue that is delivered by these antagonists, specifically by Goose, who does have the majority of the dialogue, it's made very clear that this film, though it is depicting acts of violence against queer people, is in no way approving of it or glorifying it. The villains in this film are villains because they are white supremacists. They state it proudly. They are Nazis. And they are presented as not just violent and irrational, but bumbling and foolish and stupid and incapable of working together. as and really, aside from the one character that's introduced last out of all of them, they're all kind of just like minions. Who are going around terrifying people. And then when they fuck up and do something wrong, then they call on the kind of their ringleader to come and and and help them out and and get them out without any dirt on their hands, basically. they have to do this multiple times over the course of the evening. and and it's really just I think refreshing to see these characters portrayed as such despicable. But also simple-minded and stupid individuals. they're in no way given any benefit of the doubt. And I just so greatly appreciate that about this film. That aspect alone feels so ahead of its time. Of course, it's Canadian, a peaceful people. but really it does feel extremely progressive just in how they depict all of these characters, both the heroes and the villains. Troy Escamilla: Yeah. And I I will say, I don't get the sense that they went there to murder everybody in the bar. They were there initially to scare them. I mean, Goose has this whole monologue where he's screaming at them, calling them faggots, telling them that they're part of this gang called the New Order, and they're he's telling them you you're degenerates, you don't belong in a civilized society. our country has gotten too liberal and you and they you you you think that everyone that is just expected to accept you. Well we're not going to accept you. We don't want you here. and they start to like rel literally terrorize these people when the the bartender's able to get a like he has a gun behind the the bar and he's able to get the gun and he he he pulls his pistol on Goose and like threatens to shoot him. He's like, I'm gonna shoot you if you don't get out of here. Get out of here. And he's like really aggressive. And then all the other bar attendees, all the other queers are like, yeah, shoot him, shoot him, shoot him. And I think he probably would have, except one of the other ones. I think Ian has the has the bat and is able to bat the gun out of the the bartender's hand. and of course this does not end well because then Goose attacks him. bashes his head into the floor several times and while he's roughing him up and throw him and a throwing him around, he throws him against the bar and a bottle falls and breaks. and he is just like tossing this this bartender around and inadvertently the guy gets tossed, he falls onto the floor and he f he he's he gets impaled on the piece of broken beer bottle. And it kills him. Roger: Yeah. Yeah. I like the fact that it was played as a dumb accident. really because it just makes it clear just how bumbling these individuals are. Like they they I they didn't come there to kill anybody, but through their just being frickin' assholes, of course they accidentally do. And the way this whole moment unfolds, it's really well executed because that poor bartender and that sensible ascot. gets lifted up on the table, they're gonna shove a stick up his ass. they're saying some pretty awful things. You know, they do use the term diseased, and keep in mind this is the early 80s. I'm sure the HIV epidemic, the AIDS epidemic, was just really starting to become an issue. but there's some very choice words that are used here that make it clear that they're not holding any punches in portraying these villains as exactly what they would be. You know, they're not padding the dialogue. I appreciate. Appreciate that about this film because it does make them seem all the more unstable and all the more intimidating. But this this first death is an accident, and the guy drops off the table and he he hits the floor, and there's this moment where they all gather around him, and you start to see the blood begin to pool through his white shirt. And, you know, it's been very hectic up to this point. And there's this moment where it takes this pause as you see him just laying there and The weight of what just happened really starts to hit. And you see it in all of the characters. You know, all of the the the queer individuals who are now trapped in this bar, they they realize what just happened and how much more serious this just became. And even though these characters really aren't given any dialogue, it's it it makes for a very just dark and uncomfortable moment what all transpires here. Like this film, I just didn't expect it to go. go there, but it manages to really shock me. this scene that's about to happen here, the result of of this individual, this bartender dying, I've really not seen anything like it, especially from this era. And it it, you know, first time I watched this, like I felt it in my gut, Troy. Like I felt a pit in my gut. And, you know, this is a moment where budgetary restrictions and all, they managed to create something that is Truly shocking and very well Troy Escamilla: It's yeah. Roger: executed, in my opinion. Troy Escamilla: Gonna say it yeah, it really hit me hard. I I it really hit me. It's not let's put it clear, it's not gory, it's not it's not graphic, but it is it is brutal, and you will feel something in your gut. Roger is right, seeing this play out. the guys are the guy the there are a couple of them that are like we can just go, let's just go, let's get let's get the hell out of here. it was an accident. And then the leader goose is like, no, we can't leave because they're gonna say that we did it and you you guys don't want to spend your life in jail, do you? That Ian's like, no, I don't want to go to jail. So they call this they they call their their, I don't know, the the the leader of the new order. His name is Cabe. and Cabe shows up and he assesses the situation. and he definitely recognizes that this is not good. He even says, This is not good for our cause. this is a serious threat to us. And so Goose is like, so what do you want to s what do want to do? And he's like, You guys go outside. and they do. And in the meantime, you see that the guy the all of all of the bar patrons, and keep in mind, Roger, this was a pretty full bar. This wasn't like two or three people. This is probably like twelve twelve bar patrons are all on the floor with their arms tied behind their backs with gags in their mouth. And so the group, they they go out into the hallway and we see Cabe open up his briefcase and he takes out this gun. puts on a silencer, and then proceeds to get one of the pillows from the couch area that they were all that the lesbians were sitting on. And again, this I was like, am I really seeing this? This is really fucking disturbing. Again, it's not graphic. You don't see a drip of blood, but I guess putting yourself in the situation, I was like, I would, how would you even react? Especially being the last one in l in the line. He basically he puts the pillow over the back of their heads as they're kneeling and he just shoots them. Each each in the back of the head through the pillow. And all of all they can do is is just sit there and wait to be next. and this really got I mean, this is really disturbing because I'm thinking to myself, how would you God, can you imagine like the fear? You know? and I always go back to like I always like to find parallels like to because you know I'm a huge true crime fan. I've talked about true crime. a lot on on the Patreon and stuff. And there is a there's a case that this just reminded me of. I thought about it. The second this started to happen, I was like, this so much reminds me of the the the Lane Bryant massacre. Guys, if you're a true crime buff, you know exactly what I'm talking about. But there was back in like 2012 a Lane Bryant store in Tinsley Park, Illinois early in the morning was robbed. there was like eight women that were in the store as employees and And and shoppers and the robber took him in the back room and did this exact same thing to them. sh put something and shot him in the back of the head at just one down the row. One of survived. yeah, that's what I thought about. And I was like, how fucking chilling is this? This is this is really disturbing. And we get the w the guy that's at the end, Daniel, he has a small pocket knife in his he had a small pocket knife with him. So he is able to take it out and he's sawing at the the wristbands that are on what are they the the the zip ties and he lucks out because Cade runs out of bullets. That's how many fucking people are there. He runs out of fucking bullets and he has to stop and reload. And as he's reloading Daniel's able to cut the zip tie off of his wrist and get up and try to run out of course the rest of the guys try to trap him in there but he does slice one of them in the hand and he's able to take off running and he gets out of the bar. And then the Roger: Yeah, I'm Troy Escamilla: then the movie really hits high gear. I mean th this doesn't kick it into high gear. I don't this is yeah. This was not good to watch. I was very uncomfortable. Roger: Truly uncomfortable. And I have to say, I think the fact that they chose to keep this relatively bloodless. Aside from one specific shot that I do want to point out, as Kate is moving down the line with the pillow, there is a specific shot where you see him take his thumb. There's blood on his thumb, his gloved hand, and shh like smear the blood on the pillow. and it's just it's that's all you see, and that's all you need to see. As you see feathers flying up from the pillow and everything. It's just so shocking and it is very hard to watch, but it's as tastefully done as you can possibly handle a scenario such as this. Because you once someone is shot, you never see a body on the floor. It's not like you see somebody with their brains blown out or something like that. Even when you see the individual shot, they drop off camera right away. They make it a point to not focus on. Any of the violence, the actual physical violence that is being enacted on these queer individuals. And that, I mean, that took skill, first of all, you know, from a filmmaking perspective, to create a scene that is this shocking and this intense without having to show that, says something about the individuals crafting this film. It says something about the skill sets that were existing on the set. When they were executing this scene and actually executing people, not needing to rely on that, I think is really impressive. because they they managed to create a moment that I think is going to stick with me for a really long time. And of course, a big part of that is because I am gay. But even removing that, I think anybody could watch this and think, wow, this is a surprisingly impactful sequence. I do want to take a moment to acknowledge, at the end of the line is the character of Danielle, who is the character that gets away. And I do think it was a really unique choice that of all the individuals in the bar, I feel that Danielle is almost featured the least until he's revealed to be the sole survivor. you know, I mentioned Knight of the Living Dead earlier, and I can't help but compare the character of Danielle. To a Barbara, who is one of my favorite genre characters of all time. And I know she gets a lot of hate, but I really think it's because I think that, you know, Barbara in Knight of Living Dead is a very believable character. And I'm people don't want to admit that. It's uncomfortable for people to think that they would not be capable, they would not do well in moments of extreme fear or extreme stress. but it's realistic, you know, not everybody is able to. Fight on command. A lot of people depend on the ability to take flight. And and Danielle's character survives because he is quick to respond, he's quick to react. He manages, you know, to cut himself free and get away. And over the course of this really kind of elaborate chase sequence, multiple times over, proves himself to be a step ahead, a little bit smarter, a little more capable than the mob of buff buffoons they're chasing after him. You know, he shimmies up a drain pipe. He climbs in through a a skylight in in a building and and manages to run through this like kind of closed-down office building, but hiding in a bathroom, opening the window and realizing Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: he can't jump, so s choosing to hide himself, he makes several decisions that even though his character is portrayed as at times somewhat incapable or I don't want to say incompetent, but Just scared. honestly, he's a frightened twink and he's effeminate at that. And you know me, Troy. When when I made my film Rebirth, I got a last lack for it. But I I chose to make my Barbara S character in a feminine gay. And a lot of people got really upset and offended with that. And I've got to give this film some credit in that they allowed Danielle to be softer, effeminate, skinny, frail. But also gave him several moments to prove that he is capable. I think it's a very believable depiction of a young, queer individual. He may not be the best actor out there, but as his story unfolds, I buy it. I buy all of it. I buy his responses. I buy the decisions he makes. I be buy the times that he shuts down. I get why. And I just think that this character makes a lot of sense to me. Troy Escamilla: Yeah. yeah. I mean he is he he survives because he is he has the will to survive like he wants. Not that everybody else didn't, but like he he is he knows what's coming, right? He's the last in line. He's lined up last. So he has to sit there and hear the silencer. And I think that's another chilling part of this whole scene is the s the noise the silencer makes as it shoots through the pillow. I think that's absolutely bone chilling. And he has to sit there and listen to it over and over and over, getting closer to him. and he he he has that pocket knife. It's just a little tiny pocket knife, too. Luckily, he's able to cut it right at the last the the the last second before he's shot. He gets out. Yeah, that I this elaborate chase scene through the the entire town. It really, Roger, does a wonderful job of showing how isolated this city is. There is not one other person on the street that he can run to. Nobody's in these buildings at work. People are just holed up because they know. what's going on. And I do like the scene. this is I think this is there's a lot of mistakes these criminals make. But the one that I was like, wow, you are fucking idiots is he does trick them. He he he opens that window. Yeah. And he looks down. He could jump because he eventually does jump, but instead he goes and he hides on the toilet. And when they go into the bathroom, they see the window open. They just assume he jumped. Like not one of these guys has the brains to think, hey, maybe This is a ruse. Maybe the window is already open. Let's check the stalls. They don't even look. They don't even look. These that's how stupid these guys are or unaware. And so that's one little thing that Daniel's able to take take advantage of because when they go out of the bathroom to look for him, that is when he jumps. And the only thing that gives him away is when he jumps, he the window still falls and the guys hear it. So they know, shit, he literally just jumped, let's chase him. And he's running through this isolated town. It's like industrial. It's just grimy looking. And then you just cut to this apartment building. and it is mentioned that the up that so we meet our our main people, right? So we got Horatio, his girlfriend Barbara, who Roger talk about another barber that's insufferable. I find this woman horrible. Like I cannot stand this bitch. don't give me d yes. Roger: We'll get into Barbara. I got thoughts on Barbara. A lot of them match what you're saying, but I gotta give Barbara credit where credit is due. You I love a Barbara. I can't say no to a good old Barbara. Troy Escamilla: of course, but she is she she is so fucking obnoxious. and then you got Chester, who what a cutie, what a little cutie he is. my god, I could Roger: let's talk about Chester. Troy Escamilla: we had we had what's his name last week that we swooned over. and now we have Chester. I could swoon over Chester all day too, Roger. Roger: my god. Well, we got Blake, who is dark and mysterious. And then we got Chester, who's full-lipped and pouty and big blue eyes, blonde hair. Very French Troy Escamilla: Ver very French looking. yeah. Roger: looking. He looks like LaRue. He looks he looks like La Rue. If Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: LaRue was holed up at Halifax in 1983, saving gay people, which I believe LaRue would do. But no, Troy Escamilla: yeah. Roger: he's beautiful. And I I get your issues with with Barbara, but I again for for as bad as the acting is at certain points, I'm I never ever think that these characters do anything that I think feels unnatural. Like it truly like I think it's some of the weird little quirks that are established right away, I think do the movie a lot of favor because the I mean, just across the board, this is a unique situation. You come upon this apartment. In the middle of this damn police strike, these people are sh seeking refuge, I guess. I don't know. And it's very quickly made evident that two of the individuals in this apartment, the characters of Patrick and Steve, are blind. And it's real I mean, it's aside from them l you know, looking blind because of just they do a very good job. I mean, I don't know if these actors were actually blind, but just Know the the way they maintain focus through conversations. the character of Patrick has extremely thick glasses on that make it very evident that he has obviously a a a vision disability, if you will. And they just they establish it, but it's not like beaten over the head, you know. They just bring it up in the dialogue that the teacher from their school for the blind is wanting them to be returned to the school. But because of what's going on with the strike, they don't want to leave. It's not really established what the relationship is. I'm assuming Patrick is the brother to maybe Horatio. I'm just going off the chemistry, but it's not like they give any dialogue where it's like, and your brother and his friend, blah, blah, blah. Like, no, we just come upon the scenario where these people have obviously been holed up together, hanging out, and two of them just happen to be blind. And that is what it is. And it's never ever treated as a like Issue. It's never ever treated as something that the other characters have to worry about. In fact, and another thing I adore about this film is specifically with the character of Patrick, he almost uses his disability as like his superpower as the film progresses. Troy Escamilla: Mm-hmm. Roger: The character of Patrick becomes very vital and very important to their survival. And he does several things over the course of the film that Are very impressive. and it's established early on as both of the blind characters acknowledge that they hear people running outside because their hearing is better, because they depend on it more, and they hear the character of Danielle running past the apartment, being chased by this mob of men, and they just do such a good job of of establishing this skill set that these two men have without making it this. Big obvious thing. I really appreciate how this film handles not just its queer material, but its material that focuses around its characters that are living with disabilities. I think it's very respectful. I think it it paints them to be very capable and competent and advanced individuals. And I just think that's such a cool trait for, again, a film from 1983 to have characters like this. I mean, how awesome is that? Troy Escamilla: I would say yes, I agree with you certainly more about Patrick than I do Steve. I I actually think Steve is is not portrayed in that manner. He he actually seems more what's the word I want to l use? He's kind of more a simpleton. Not only is he blind, he's just very a very simple man. Because his whole concern through his time on screen is he wants to be able to get back before curfew, otherwise he's gonna lose his dessert privilege. That's what he cares about. Yeah, well, yeah, but Roger: That would be me too though, Troy. Blind or not, I'd be I'd be puss in boots, pissed off, pouting around. I want my dessert. I get Troy Escamilla: Ha ha ha. Roger: it, but I also I hear you on that. Patrick is definitely the more capable of of the two friends for sure. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, no, it does never explain why they're there, who they are, but they're there. Okay. So that's our group. you get it, you get this scene, you know, we we we're just we'll just dump right into their daily life. That's what an another thing I just really like about it. We're just dumped in. It's literally like we are just there random night. Horatio and Barbara are having an argument because she wants another cigarette and she and he is being her like leader because she told him she wants to quit. So he has to only allot her a certain amount of cigarettes a day, four cigarettes a day. So he's telling her you've already had four. She's like, No, I and she gets real bitchy, real fucking bitchy about it. And she goes and pouts. And you know, then you can tell like he's definitely whipped because he gives in and goes and gives her one of the cigarettes. she's just a bitch throughout the whole thing. but then yes, so then s Danielle rush rushes into this apartment building and like starts pounding on the door. and they open the door and he is like, God, let me let me in, let me in. These they're they're after me, they're after me. So you get this whole debate between Horatio and Barbara whether they should really let him in or not. and they they do let him in, and seconds later, the mob shows up sh and pound on the door. And they answer it. Horatio answers it, and it's the mob led by Goose. Goose is basically the only one that talks for this group. and he tells Horatio, hey, we need that guy that just can't you just let in your house. He's a he's an escaped psychopath, he just killed people at the crypt, which is the name of the gay bar. We need him back. He's dangerous. And Danielle's in the background saying, No, they're lying, they're the ones that did it. So you get a brief moment of Horatio and especially Barbara, like, who are we believing here? You know? and I think that Horatio has the common sense. To realize he saw how d terrified Danielle is when he capted the he I think he can recognize who's telling the truth, right? That Danielle is certainly terrified. Barbara, on the other hand, is not so sure. She's like, he could be a psychopath. You know, they ultimately do not give him up. They they shut the door on him. And what ends up happening is the guys pound on the door again And Goose actually busts the door down with his club, falls onto the floor, falls right into the barrel of a shotgun that now Horatio got from Chester. Because Chester, talk about like some the these characters, they just have like common sense, or they have something about their personality that make them fit perfectly into the situation. Does that make sense? Because Chester seems like he is almost like a survivalist. Like Roger: Mm-hmm. Troy Escamilla: he doesn't trust anybody. He doesn't trust the government. He doesn't trust any. So he's always prepared. He doesn't trust anybody. So the second he see he hears the situation, he knows these guys are no good. So he immediately, once when they shut the door, he immediately knows they're gonna come back. So he gives Horatio that gun. And Horatio pulls the gun on on on Goose and basically says, I'm not giving them up to you. I'm gonna you don't get out of here, I'm gonna blow your I'm gonna blow your brains out. Roger: wanna take a real specific moment to talk about this scene because I think there's so many things about this scene that is that's done right. really like this scene establishes the immediate element of capability and know-how on behalf of what is, our group of heroes, especially in the character of Horatio as being a leader and the character of Chester as being prepared. and you know, said like these characters just fit right into the situation. And I gotta give some credit to the direction and also the script, in that again, none of this is heavy-handed, but if you listen to certain things that Chester says, like, you know, At one point he says on one of my diving trips I learned blah, blah, blah. or at another point where they talk about why he doesn't have as many bullets as usual, Horatio says, Yeah, he went down and fired off his guns when they announced that the police were going on strike, basically in protest. These little things that are written in so well that really give you a grounded idea of who these characters are. And I do feel that the you know, the character of Chester probably, you know, aside from Horatio, the best acted character in the film. But talk about a likable fucking character and a great fucking neighbor. I mean, lucky Horatio and his crew that they have this guy living next door to them, because it's clear that he considers them all to be very good close friends. it it is very much established that these two households respect and appreciate each other. Down to s what's revealed with that whole little mirror gag. We we learn that. That somehow these men have managed to construct a scenario where in their bathrooms their mirrors are conjoined on either on either end of their walls. so that when they open the mirror, they have created an entrance or like a window, if you will, to pass things through to one another. I doubt that the apartment came with that. I'm guessing they had to construct this, but it becomes a major playing factor. And it sounds like something that would feel forced, but because of this camaraderie. I absolutely buy it. I absolutely buy it. They have the whole little rooftop gag where they each have like skylights that go into either of their apartments and they climb up on the roof back and forth. I absolutely buy it. Cause this place, it's kind of like run down and beat up. But because of that, this these apartments have so much character and so much personality. And I've lived in places like this, like places with weird little nooks and crannies and little weird passageways and staircases. I just believe it. I don't feel that anything about this feels forced at all. And I really appreciate that. But this whole bit here where Horatia opens the door, confronts Goose, I do think it's some of the best acting in the film. I I will say this is one of the moments where Goose does not sound ADR'd. He does not sound dubbed. I do believe this is auth his authentic delivery. His acting is the best it is in the film. same on behalf of Horatio, he does a very good job of, like I said, establishing dominance and giving these antagonists something to now be intimidated by, really. Like up to this point, they've been the ones who have been threatening and intimidating the queers. Well, now you have a very macho butch male protagonist who is introduced. And aside from that one little bit, that one little banter where they're like, hand over the homo. And he's like, I'm not gonna hand over the homo. I find it really endearing and interesting that the character of Horatio is written to be a man and a butch man at that, but he has several traits to his personality that seem very protective and caring. And, you know, from the way he talks to Barbara, though it is a bit maybe He's mansplaining to her about the cigarettes and it gets her frustrated. She's already stressed, whatever. Situationally it makes sense with the strike going on. Really, aside from that, like most of the things he says come off as very gentle and kind. And the way he starts to handle Danielle as he starts to talk to him to get him to open up about what happened. the queer thing is never brought up as an issue between these the individuals in this apartment. It's never Brought up as a point as to why he should not be there and be protected. I just love that. you have these male characters introduced during this era who could easily have been like, Why are we protecting the fag? Why are we gonna take care of this gay? Never ever brought up as a problem or as a reason why this character should be treated any differently. It's a pretty quick conclusion that Horatio jumps to that he's going to do the right thing. And that he's going to defend this individual regardless of how they identify or how they love and is going to do the right thing because that's the kind of person he is. And it it's nothing more than that. And I just think it makes for his character right off the bat to be really, really likable. Troy Escamilla: He is really likable. I yeah, and I think that pointing out like the structure of this apartment comp complex, particularly these two neighbors who seem s extremely comfortable with each other and have have access to each other's spaces, and just how kind of maybe confusing the whole layout of this place is, I think it definitely is the reason why these individuals are able to fight back so successfully because they have the upper hand in knowing. about these trapdoors and these, s skylights that that can get him into the other people's building that the that the antagonists do not know about, and they they even say they there's times in the films where they where they can't figure out where these people are. where did he go? Why So I think that was huge to their benefit. But yeah, so the gang leaves, right? and I do like the fact that Chester reveals that the gun wasn't even loaded. He didn't have time to load it, but at least it worked to scare these guys off. They they they kind of like I think Horatio and Barbara and are are kind of like, okay, they they left. They know they're not gonna come back. They know we have a gun, right? Danielle is like, no, they're coming back. We need to be prepared. Like, we need to be prepared. These guys are going to come back. I guarantee it. So he starts like, This is what we have, this is what we can do. And of course, Barbara's dumbass is like, let's just call the police. Well, bitch, they're on strike. Okay. That's not gonna work. So there's this moment where you see both of these groups regrouping and figuring out what they're going to do. Outside, Goose tell Goose puts puts people strategically on the roof of the building across the street. He has the guy that up there that's the sniper who's up there. And so they're getting positioned. And in inside the apartment, Chester is like, This is what we have as weapons. We have this, old Russian sh sharpshooter, but only has two hollow point bullets. But I can I can make this. I'm able to make these things, So Chester and the this group are able to come together and make all these like makeshift weapons as they prepare for what they think is gonna be battle. Roger: I've heard a lot of early comparisons, before ever watching this, a lot of reviews and positive feedback that I'd read that said that this film felt like home alone for adults. And I can absolutely see that. Maybe, you know, not to the extent, not to the extremes of home alone, but this kind of just like booby trap. Like roughen it mentality they all have, their abilities to just kind of gang together and and and defend themselves, whatever means necessary, that definitely resonates now after seeing it. I definitely see like those home alone comparisons. because so several of these contraptions and several of the decisions that they make and what they construct are quite impressive. And it really is Chester. Who is behind all of that? I do have to acknowledge again, his character is vital to their survival. aside from just being extremely likable and never judgmental of any of the characters, including Danielle. it's just he's so quick to come up with ideas of like, you know, we're going to build this dirty bomb that I can shoot like a rocket, or I'm going to rig the doorknob so it's electrocuted. it's just super impressive what he pulls off and it's never so far from the realm of reality. I buy it with his level of Troy Escamilla: It's Roger: know how that he could do these things. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, because you you see them making it and it's all very just makeshift materials they have in their apartment. It's not like they're, this is all very believable, I think. And I think that's what really makes it work. you get the moment where outside Goose calls up to the apartment. He calls for Horatio. He's like, Hey man, okay, I'm sorry. I apologize, I got carried away. You know what, we're gonna leave for the night. You can keep you can keep the dude, keep Daniel. just make sure you watch him all night because he is dangerous. And we'll be back in the morning for him. But he is your responsibility tonight. So they're trying to try to trick them, trying to make them feel better. And Horatio's like, okay, whatever, man. and again, you how much are you gonna trust these people? I think that like Horatio, Chester, Danielle are all very much like, no, this is a trap. Barbara is like, I'm leaving then. And even Steve. Steve is like, I'm gonna go because I wanna get my I wanna I I wanna get my dessert privileges. I'm gonna go to the I'm gonna go in the kitchen and get my cane and I'm leaving. So St I so what ends up happening here is Steve, this poor blind man, all he wants to do is get back to school so he could get a d his dessert. This poor blind man, he's walking down the stairs with his cane. You know, he runs into the other tenant there. What's this tenant's name? Amos? The drunk Angus or Amos? It's a dr it's it's somebody Roger: Is it like Angus or something along those lines? Yeah. Yeah. Troy Escamilla: that just came out of nowhere, honestly, but apparently lives in the apartment below. runs into runs into him on the way in and then the the s the second that poor Steve steps out of the apartment door onto the sidewalk the guys across the street at first Roger I will I thought they shot him with a paint with paintballs because I was like there's no way they're just shooting this poor blind no they all fucking sh all of them at once shoot this poor blind man dead right in the fucking doorway before he can even step outside how horrible do you have to be to shoot a blind man? Not that shooting anybody is great, but can this poor defenseless man who did not know Roger: I it it definitely I think was the right call. Not that I ever want to see a blind person get mowed down in a barrage Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: of bullets, but it was the right call just to establish how just how like violent these individuals are and and how willing they are to defend themselves and defend their names, taking out whoever it takes to ensure that, you know, the word doesn't get out about what they did. I I think it was A shocking decision for sure to have that cat that character killed, but it it made for for quite a a big impression. certainly for the first of the victims within the the core group of survivors, I did not expect it to happen. And the character's name is Andre, the neighbor, who literally only says one thing. Every time they see him, he says, Nice day, isn't it? It's the middle of the night. Yes, he's clearly a raging alcoholic. Troy Escamilla: I yeah. Roger: the poor man is struggling. Last thing he needs is these hooligans coming in with assault rifles mowing people down. But you know, poor Troy Escamilla: I I do Roger: Steve is the first one to get it and I I will acknowledge that the sound effects that are used for these guns sound like a kid's laser gun. they sound very disconnected from the film, very like of the era. they definitely don't sound realistic, but I again I can get past it because of what's happening. and the you know, the moment of Steve getting shot, it's not especially bloody, but you do see like a a blood eruption behind him on the door. But the way he dies, like he just like kind of slumps over and it's It's it's a shocking moment, but it's not like they're showing holes ripping into this guy. It feels just very, again, very real and very sad. And I was just like, my God, like, is this what I'm in in store for with the rest of this movie? Like, this is gonna be what I'm watching. Just blind people getting shot up in apartment complexes. And to a certain extent, yeah, yes. I mean, it actually continues to to shock throughout the the rest of the film, but they really did. choose to go big with the first of the major deaths. And I I do appreciate that because it did kind of get me ramped up for what is, you know, a really intense film. while it can be slow at times, this film does continue to kind of shock and surprise. And it doesn't really lose that momentum. So I think that this is a really, really well executed scene. I am annoyed by the fact that nobody is hearing I get that they have silencers, but nobody's hearing like the bullets tearing up the door and the wood and the house. it seems like nobody is at all aware of what's going on. And I don't really know how guns like this work. So maybe, maybe that is how it would be because the the bullets are like being shot so fast that they're not like they're just piercing through things and not making any any additional noise. I don't know. But there are points where I would expect characters to see like bullet holes or maybe see a little more destruction or just be aware of what's happening. And they always seem to be clueless to it. so I I don't know if that makes sense. Maybe one Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: of our listeners who knows how guns work could give me a little more information because this is not my forte. Troy Escamilla: Well, yes, even with a silencer, guns make noise, right? A silencer Roger: Yes. Troy Escamilla: is not 100% silent. You hear it. And also, you have to remember when he gets shot, because he's shot about 30 times, he falls back and crashes through the door. Like it makes a noise. Like he falls back and crashes through the door. So I think it's one of those things where the film forgets one of the big plot devices that it's relying on is the fact that Patrick is supposed to have super hearing and clearly would have heard this. if Patrick can hear. People running outside and being able and being able to decipher how many exactly how many people are out there, he should have been able to hear this. Clearly, he should have been able. He doesn't. I also want to acknowledge, just to the the fact that what makes this film even more disturbing, I guess, on a level that we really haven't talked about, is how much glee and joy these guys get from the killing, particularly goose. I want to say when when Cabe started shooting. People in the back of the head at the gay bar, the crypt, he started giggling and clapping his hands. He was so excited. And after they mow down this poor blind guy, he is laughing. He's like, yeah, I got him. I got him. Did you see that? I got that. Is also fucking disturbing. That you have these individuals that are that just take so much pleasure in murdering, right? So after. Roger: Yeah. yeah. Troy Escamilla: After Steve is dispatched, they they run and they they all run across the street and they drag his body and they're like, What are we gonna do with them? And and Goose is like, Two of you take him when you just go dump him in the harbor. at the same time, Barbara wants to leave. Even though Horatio's like, Barbara, I don't think it's a good idea. The guys are probably still out there. She's like, I don't care. I'll talk to you in the morning. So she actually goes to leave. And he's like, Wait, before you leave, Patrick just told me we can't find Steve. So can you please do me a favor before you leave? Just stay here in the doorway. I'm gonna go call up the school and see if Steve's there. Okay. And just stay here with me. And if he's not, you can go. So while she's waiting, of course, she starts like he gives her a cigarette too, which, keeps the bitch there. So as she's waiting, she won't stepping outside to light the cigarette. And the guys across the street are see her and they're gonna, they're gonna shoot the bitch. Like the gun is drawn, he has his little thing. She steps into the puddle of below. And reaches down to realize that it's blood and she takes off running upstairs to tell everybody that the there's blood and what the hell's going on. Roger: This whole bit's again, very well played. this whole moment in the doorway from the moment that Steve is shot moving forward is is all really intense because it's it's things are moving. It's the the both it's the suspense of the individuals who don't know what's going on are walking right into the you know, be being a target for these murderers. And it's also the fact that the the the antagonists Only have so much time to cover their tracks because they're basically trying to lure these individuals outside. And then once they're in the doorway, they're gonna shoot them. And so they have to drag Steve's body, and they're talking about how they're gonna go dump his body in the bay. And you see that eerie shot of him getting dragged where he does look extremely dead, just getting dragged across the cement. And so this whole bit with Barbara, and she is annoying as all hell, Troy. I I again I'll give you that. But the moment of her lighting the cigarette and going back and forth in the door frame, you're like, my God, like they're gonna fucking shoot her. Like it's just, you know, she's just kind of pacing back and forth nervously because she is stressed and it does make sense. and then she spots that blood. And as soon as she sees the blood, you know, the antagonists have now been discovered. The the master plan has now been revealed. And so Horatio comes running down and grabs her and runs her back inside. Right away, he's telling people to keep away from the windows. And I do appreciate that, they didn't draw this out. as soon as someone found blood, people are like, fuck, get in, lock the doors, get away from the windows, and hide. it at this point, the assailants know, we have no real choice but to go in. we're not gonna like fool these fuckers to come back outside again. they are again, they're a step ahead, they're not stupid. They are capable and competent individuals. And so now the villains are forced to make a move. And and that's really where the risk comes into play. now that they're trying to get into the building is I think when things get their most interesting. Troy Escamilla: Yeah. And this is when this you have that moment. This is what I'm talking about. You have this moment where Patrick is by the window and he can literally say he's he says he can hear somebody on the telephone building across the street on a walkie talkie. Fucker, you could hear that across the street, but you couldn't hear fucking Steve Steve's ass fall through the door and get shot multiple times. Again, it's just one of those things like they did not they only want to use this plot device when it serves them, right? So he's able to hear the walkie-talkie. He's able to distinguish how many people are there. He's able almost to distinguish what they're saying on the walkie-talkie. He's just like, yeah, they have somebody on the roof above us, positioned above us. And this is when, like, the yeah, the gang now they have to kick into high high gear. This is when they accept, hey, we we gotta fight back, and they start making all of the the the weapons. You see kind of he Chester gives. Daniel something to do by giving him that PCV pipe and tells him to start sawing it in half so that he can make the the pipe bomb. They're just they're doing all they can to get these weapons made. there's the there's the bow. They have a bow, they have a bow and arrow. Okay. They have that one rifle that has two bullets to it. He's making that makeshift PCP thing. And then he has something he's gonna make, like a rocket launcher that's gonna launch stra nails and shrapnel. And then he also booby traps the doorknob downstairs. And I love he comes upstairs and he's like, anybody that touches the doorknob downstairs is gonna die. He just like casually says it. Roger: Danielle also has a small axe that he utilizes. they do and at one point bust out like a hairspray flamethrower, which again, very home alone, before home alone. But yeah, I mean, they're really just kind of like throwing together whatever they have to defend themselves. and I do want to acknowledge, you know, the character of Danielle it kind of gets sidelined a little bit in the midst of the chaos. but it's not like he's not serving a purpose. he does there's a couple things he does then ugh, Danielle, silly gay. But overall, like when he can jump in and assist, he's trying. The poor thing. He's fucking trying. And so he's sawing that fucking pipe through that whole big dialogue. All you hear is the sawing back and forth, back and forth. But you know, I'm I'm confident in these individuals. Like even on my first viewing I was like they they fucking got it together. And it does make you want to really root for them, even though Barbara is annoying as all hell. And even though sometimes the acting isn't great, I'm really wanting to see all of these characters survive. And you mentioned Patrick now being really put to use and using his superpower hear hearing to to hear everything that's going on. And while it might be a bit exaggerated, I love that they did not sideline this character. I really love that Patrick really plays an important part of. Everything that unfolds moving forward. he's basically giving everybody a play-by-play on what is going on to keep them a step ahead. So they know exactly where the antagonists are, the assailants are around the house, what they're saying, how many footsteps he's hearing per room. It's really impressive, it's really well written, and it makes the character of Patrick extremely likable. So I do appreciate that everyone has something to do here. There's not really one character who feels like completely wasted. and it's just it's just a really good utilization of an ensemble cast. Troy Escamilla: Yes, yes. At this at this time we have we have to acknowledge that Cabe shows up, because the guys call him and it's like we have a problem, the the we they have the guy inside, they won't let him go. We just killed somebody. So we need you here. So Cabe shows up, he ha he brings us a trunk of all of these guns, right? and I I gotta say I do love just and it's just a weird thing, but I just love how like homemade these guns look. it's it it just adds to the realism. Does that make sense? It's not like they're whipping out like real heav you know, military grade AR forty sevens. These look like they're homemade guns with homemade pieces. And I think that adds to the whole thing. They also have that infrared camera that the s they give to the sniper, and it's it's eighty it's nineteen eighty-three, so just to keep that in mind. But he's able to attach it to his homemade g weapon and he That's how he's seeing who's moving out who's who's moving in the house is through this infrared camera. But once Cade gets there, he gives them all the weapons and he instructs them that they are going to they need to get into the house. That's they need to get in because you you guys are not getting these people out. They know we're here. They're not coming out. So we have to get in. And he gives Ian, he makes Ian the the w for the one that has to go in first because he's like, You're the most disposable, he tells them. And it's like, geez, these guys aren't even really loyal to each other, are they? Roger: And Ian is clearly a closeted homosexual and he bitches like one. And so I get it. I get why these neo Nazis would like, You're the first to go gay. And he's like, I'm not gay. But he's such a whiny little bitch, that fucking Ian. I can't fucking stand him. He's hard to look at too. I I do want to note, since you're talking about the guns, one thing I did read about this film is all of the guns used in this film are real. And Troy Escamilla: Mm. Roger: they are pr they were provided by like a gun collector. in in in that in that area of Canada who who provided these very specific and very modified pieces of weaponry specifically you know to serve this purpose. And I think that you're absolutely right. Like these guns I mean these are big, scary fucking guns and they don't look like props. And they absolutely like even the way the men handle them, when they're putting them together and everything, they take their time to really show off how big these pieces of of weaponry are and the the guns that they're brandishing look so intimidating that it just adds to that gritty realism. You know, it really Troy Escamilla: There's Roger: does. Like ever everything about the film feels so of the moment. And I I absolutely buy that this group of people would have access to this kind of weaponry. So yeah, it it does make these individuals significantly more intimidating because now They're basically they're just perched out there just waiting for somebody to come into their line of view so they can fire on them. And the sniper, even though he's the character that probably says the least over the course of the film, he's extremely important and he is probably the greatest threat. because that whole little trick they've been using, going back and forth from roof to roof through their through like their skylights. He he detects that pretty quickly. He sees Chester going from roof to or from one entrance to the other on the roof. And he's basically like, Next time I see him come up there, I'm gonna fire on him. and and you know, right now those characters inside the apartment have no idea that there's somebody perched out there waiting for them from the other roof across the street. so it does mi create this extra element of suspense because you're like, my God, these characters are just going back and forth without any idea of what's going on. And you're gonna see one of these characters get shot up right away. Luckily things do work out in their favor. and it but it is something that creates a great extra element of of just stress throughout the the course of the film. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, there is that moment also where they're when they're trying to divvy up weapons where Horatio tries to give Barbara that knife. And she's like, hell no, I'm not taking that. And he g he's pissed because he really, in this life and death situation, you're gonna be a bitch about this. So he just stabs it into the floor. And then she's like, She grabs the wish, gimme that. I'm like, Barb, why Barbara deserved to have Barbara should have died before the poor blind man coming out just trying to go home for dessert. Roger: But then and then he has that moment after she takes the knife, like a real cunt, and he's like, You're fucking crazy. And then they kiss. And I guess that's the point where it turns around because after that, Barbara starts to become a little more palatable. But that fucking moment with the knife, like, what the fuck, bitch? Like, you're in it, girl. Don't complain. Just defend yourself. Troy Escamilla: Exactly. So now that the the the the group the new order launched their full assault because they go across the street and they throw tear gas into the apartment building. and they are like tear gas, tear gas, and luckily I don't know why the Horatio has like a supply of gas masks that he just has that he puts on. Chester, Roger: Not Horatio, Chester. Troy Escamilla: yeah, I'm sorry, ch Horatio puts one on, yes. But Chester has a supply of gas masks. And even the even the one even Goose sees them in the gas mask. He's like, the he he says the faggot lovers, they have gas masks. Those faggot lovers the word Roger: Yeah. Troy Escamilla: is used quite a bit by this new order group, obviously, which you know, 1983. but yeah, he's like, my God. And so Horatio's able to get the gas, the tear gas drum and throw it back out the window. and this is when like they hatch this thing where they're they're they're gonna try to trick the group into thinking they're in the other apartment. Right. So they're gonna make noise, do this, do that, and make them think that they're in a in in one apartment, but they're really in the other. So that's how they're able to they do it successfully. That's how they're able to hold them off for so well because the group, New Order group for the longest time think that the group is in a the apartment that they're not in, if this makes any sense. Roger: Yeah, and luckily due to Patrick, he hears over the walkie them talking with the sniper. And so right before Chester is about to go out through the roof again, Horatio is able to put the pieces together and say, Don't go out there. And the sniper does fire on them, and Chester hears the ricochet of the bullets hitting the roof. And so he's able to to thus come to the conclusion conclusion that, they have silencers. So Lucky for them, they're able to put that together real quick. And so there is that moment of Chester where he physically hoists himself through that tiny little mirror window, like his skinny little body. but now they have that ace in their pocket of you know, knowing that everybody outside thinks there's currently somebody in that unit. They have no idea about this hidden window. And so they're able to use that in their favor. and even bring the window back into play later when they're ambushing the villains. And I really I very much enjoy how they're able to utilize the structure of these apartments in their favor. It makes for a really fun, almost like a cat and mouse kind of scenario, but they flip it where at times the the protagonists are luring the villains into traps. And it it does make for a really fun, enjoyable stretch there for the the midsection of the film. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, it's a lot of walking around, the the the protagonist and the antagonists walking around hiding, trying to track trying to track each other down. so they're able to yes, so they know that the sniper is on the roof. And at this point, Chester's like, we got to take care of the sniper. So he built this elaborate like rocket launcher out of like piping, and he he's we see him stuffing it with nails and shit. And he has it attached to a battery, like a car battery or something. And so he's like, Okay, Horatio, when I say, when I say turn the battery on, turn the battery on. And Horatio's like, I got it. So he points this big old fucking rocket launcher out the window at the roof across the street. And says tells Horatio, okay, now Horatio turns the battery on the fucking rocket launcher actually launches across the street and hits or because it's filled with shrapnel. You see it it you see it the sniper gets hit. you we we see him the kind of the aftermath. he's laying there and he has like nails sticking out of his cheek, several nails in his face, and then he has someone in his in his legs. He's not dead, but he's definitely been fucked up. Roger: Yeah, the way this is executed, it at first it's it feels like it's almost a little bit clunky, but it actually works in its favor because it makes for a really cool reveal as it kind of starts to pan over. I think his name is Lloyd, the sniper, pans over and you see all the nails sticking out of his legs, and then you see it sticking out of his face, and he's like dazed. And so he did get hit. and so he's still alive and he comes back into play, but for a moment. He is down for the count. And so there is a moment where you see that Cade, I'm assuming, heard at least the explosion, but he begins to radio for the sniper. And the sniper is so dazed, he's not able to respond right away. So Cade is starting to put together, like, they're fighting back, and they're actually more capable than we expected. and so Cade is pretty aware that he's going to have to step in. He's not just overseeing, he's gonna have to become involved here in a Troy Escamilla: Yeah, and there's a lot of back and forth on the radio between Goose and Cade because Cabe because Goose is trying to tell Cabe that the the the guys they're not in this apartment. we're in the rooms right now, they're not there. And he's like, they have to be there. They have to be there. And then you want to come in and look yourself, they are not here. He's Well, you better fucking you better fucking find them. I mean they're moving from room to room, they're getting frustrated. You still have Patrick who's able to do to be listening and tracking where they are in in the building. And they yeah, so I think this is the moment where yeah, you have the one villain, Rosie, who is like the the he's been he's been prominent throughout. He hasn't really said anything, but he's inside the apartment and this is when Horatio enlists the help of Daniel to help him make that little like aerosol flamethrower. And they lure Rosie, who has no idea that this medicine cabinet's double-sided, right? Why how would he know that? so you got Rosie approaching on one side of the cabinet and Daniel and Horatio on the other. And Daniel starts to play like a little song or tune through or make noise through the medicine cabinet. So it lures Rosie over there. And when Rosie opens the medicine cabinet, of course, Horatio's like, now. So Daniel lights the aerosol flamethrower and Horatio shoots him in the neck with the arrow. and we see the aftermath, and what I really kind of appreciate about the the film is like w it it doesn't shy away from showing like the brutality that's inflicted on the bad guys. It doesn't really lean into showing us gore and stuff when it comes to our our protagonists, but when we s when a bad guy gets killed or injured, we see it. And you do get this gnarly effect of Rosie laying there with the arrow through his throat, just coughing up blood and gurgling, his face partly burned. It's pretty effective. Roger: One thing I really appreciate about this moment is it's it is a a sequence in which three of the characters worked together in unison 'cause it's Horatio, who actually takes the aerosol can, because it is constructed by Danielle, but then Danielle gives him the can, and then Chester has the bow and arrow, and then Danielle takes the gun for a moment, and he is like he is like backing them up. So you have these three guys waiting on the other side of this medicine cabinet, just waiting for this little alarm to go off and watching. And as soon as Rosie opens that door, they are there and they are ready. And it's it just makes them. honestly, it makes these guys seem like such badasses. They're all working in unison. They're all on the same page. And as quickly as Rosie opens that door, he's startled by the flamethrower. It gives Chester enough of a moment to fire that arrow and then they all drop down before he can do anything. Like they're just they're so ready to go. And it's just, it's such a fun moment. And they're successful. They get the arrow right through his neck. And yeah, it is. gruesome and it's not like it just cuts to the shot of him just laying there dead. Like you see him like gurgling and spitting up blood and you know he's really going through it. Like this guy is feeling this wound before he dies. And so it does it does feel extremely satisfying seeing this moment where these characters band together to take out one of these guys. It's one of my favorite moments in the film. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, it's it's great. And so the other ones are still bumbling around when they realize that Rosie isn't like back yet. Where where is he at? so they they make their way up to the you know, to where Rosie was and they th is this the moment where I think this is the moment where Goose like sticks his sees the sees Rosie and then sticks his head through the the medicine thing is like, hey you fuckers and Horatio's there and has the rifle and sh pulls the trigger, but the rifle doesn't fire. He's like, fuck. Roger: Well, it there what happens is is when they hear them coming back up, Horatio closes the mirror on their end. So they're not initially aware of the mirror trick. They just come in and they see Rosie dead, and they even they walkie Cade and Cade's like, There's no way that this guy's just dead. Like there has to be somebody in there. And so Horatio's like, I'm gonna get another one. Like, you know, I'm gonna go in and and and try to. Take out a second guy. And so he has the rifle and he starts to open the mirror when Goose has his back turned. He opens the mirror slowly and he almost fucking gets him. It's that the gun lock or the gun jams. The the the the bullet is dented. They end up finding out inside of there. And so it doesn't go off right away. And so Goose turns around. And immediately sees him because there's even a moment where you see Horatio's like say, Hey, asshole. You Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: know, like he has like a line, like, he's really gonna get this guy, and then he's like, shit. And then he drops down and Goose fires on the wall right away, and then he starts to fire through the window. So now they've discovered this this mirror trick, which is unfortunate. but if it wasn't for the gun, Horatio would have got him. It was not Horatio's fault. Troy Escamilla: And yeah, they and Goose is like screaming. He's like, hey, they got two mirrors. They got two fucking mirrors. And yeah, so then you get the moment where you have Horatio working with with Patrick to fix the gun. And it's Patrick who realizes that the bullet has been dented. But in the meantime, you know, the the the guys are now in full attack mode. Right? They are they're gonna get in. They know what's going on. They're gonna get in one way or the other. they're charging in the apartment. Kells them they're gonna have to go into the other one because that's where they are. Get into that other apartment. So as they're gett trying to get into the other apartment, they go they go through they run into poor Amos or Abel or what the fuck is his name? The drunk. Andre. Yeah. Roger: Andre. Is it Andre? I think it's Andre. Troy Escamilla: And he's just he's he's he's drunk. He's just this pleasant man. And he's he tells them, it's a nice day. And Goose is like, not for you, and just shh. Shoots him dead, multiple times, shoots him in the chest. This poor Roger: This poor fucking alcoholic just trying to l live his life. he's not functioning, but he's he's sure trying. He's pleasant. He's wishing them a good day at ten PM at night. And that's all he says. It's just nice day, isn't it? Multiple times over. And then he gets mowed down, and then his cat begins to lick up his blood later on. You see the cat fucking licking up his blood. Troy Escamilla: I know, I yeah. Roger: That poor fucking cat had no idea what it was getting into with this movie. but yeah, it is. I appreciate even though this character is so disposable, like again, you mentioned like how much glee these fuckers take out of inflicting pain on people. And it's their reaction. Like earlier in the film they even they shoved the guy over and he like just didn't even respond. And so they just open the door and just shoot him up and then they're on their way. These fuckers. Troy Escamilla: But I will say I I like how quickly th they're dispatched. like are because these are the guys we've been following, and I think it's really surprising to dispatch them so quickly. because once they get once they leave Amos's apartment, they get in. They get they go upstairs and they're they're in the right apartment. But they, Roger, are immediately ambushed by Horatio, Chester. Or Horatio shoots the one that's that's sticking his head through the through the medicine cabinet, shoots him square in the forehead. You get the one that's mowed down in the hallway. And as Goose sees what's happening, he's like, shit, we're at a disadvantage. I'm getting the fuck out of here. He runs downstairs to go out the front door, grabs the doorknob, and is fucking electrocuted to death right then and there. I mean, this happens all are these these guys, these the the remaining new order guys are dispatched in a matter of thirty seconds. It's quick. Roger: And it it's really just a matter of perfect timing. Again I have to give the protagonist in this film credit. Like if things didn't work exactly as they planned it, Then then they would all be dead, But instead, Horatio times it perfectly. So what happens is he rushes across the doorway because he knows that the the one new order member who's poking through the window is watching for him and he dashes across right as the others are coming up the stairwell. So when he fires the gun, he takes out one of his own. He takes out closeted homosexual Ian, who is now dead. And it goes out in a painful fashion. you see the, you know, shrieking, just drop into the ground as he's getting pumped up with fucking bullets. And of course, Goosem Goose goes to make a run for it because, like, what is he going to do at this point? And you've been waiting for this doorknob trick. They even had a moment earlier when they're going up when they used like the wooden end of one of their sticks to open the door. And they specifically showed it to show, like, fuck. Like, you know, they didn't touch the doorknob. So they missed this this booby trap. when he goes back down, just he doesn't even think about it. He grabs the doorknob and I'm not normally one for an electrocution sequence. I think they can be fun. sometimes in 80s movies when you see like the bones glowing and everything, you know, but this is Troy Escamilla: yeah. Roger: just like you just see him writhing with pain and there's a few flashes of light, but it's very understated. And because of that, like it's actually quite effective. Like he just his body goes stiff and they keep the camera on him for a moment and he's shrieking. And he just drops, and you're just left in shock. Because, like you said, you've been waiting for this invasion to happen. You've known these guys are coming, but they're all such bumbling idiots. They really are so foolish that when it comes down to actually having to face the protagonist, they take them out right away because these fools have no plan. They're just going in there guns ablazing. And the people inside have actually Put their heads together and worked as a team. And because of that, they're able to take them out very quickly. And I really appreciate that. And I I almost feel it's unfortunate the revelation that comes about with Cade being now the last one standing. you know, Cade's able to get the upper hand simply because they just didn't know how many of them there were. And even Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: there's a moment earlier when Danielle is trying to remember how many men he saw, and you know, he's like, I was tied up, I really had no idea what was going on. It could have been five, it could have been eight, I don't know. But overall, you know, they've been assuming it's five and there is that sixth member, Cade, who has been on the walkie. And as they start to talk about it, they start to realize, wait, wait a minute. There is one more. There has to be, 'cause who wasn't on the walkie talkie? But unfortunately the way play things play out, they don't realize it fast enough. Troy Escamilla: That yeah, that's the sad thing is they they think after they kill every they kill these guys that they're that they're safe. In fact, you have Chester's gonna go to the hospital, Barbara is going to meet him at the hospital, everyone thinks they're safe until they really start to think. I think I think the comment I think what makes it click for them is is Danielle makes the comment. He says, God, he's like, I really wish I would have I we I really wish I could have seen the the ringleader die. and Horatio's like, the one the one in the, hat that got electric. He's like, No, no, no, the one in the leather jacket. I'll never forget him. He's the one that killed everybody at the bar. And then they start to talk and they're like, wait, there has to be one more because after we took out the the sniper on the roof, they were still talking on the talkie. So who they were who they were who were they talking to? Unfortunately, again, it's not fast enough because we see that w when poor Chester goes to leave to go to the hospital. He goes down the stairs, and immediately Cabe comes out of the darkness and wraps a garot around his throat and strangles him to death with this garrot. and it's a pretty brutal ending for Chester, who has been such seven steps ahead of the game this whole movie. And for to see him being taken out like this was kind of it's effective, but it pissed me off in a in a in a good way, right? I was you know what I mean? Roger: Yeah, I think at the end of the day, upon reflecting on this film, I am so disappointed that the character Chester dies. But would I change it? You know, would I go back and let Barbara survive Night the Living Dead? No. Because does it add to the overall heft and impact of the f like the conclusion of the film and like the way it makes me feel when I'm When I'm done watching this movie, would I want to change that sensation? No. One of the reasons this film ends on a more shocking note is because, these characters think they're safe. And then the character who is the most capable of all of them, he's just ambushed. The only reason that that Chester is killed is because he has no idea that there is another member. And so when he is ambushed, it feels so unfair. And the filmmakers clearly knew that when they chose to go this route with this scene. Cause he even has on his wrist, he has a pocket knife that he's like reaching for, trying to get it as he's getting choked out, and he's just not able to do it. And yeah, it's really, it's heartbreaking because this character has been nothing but likable and and resourceful and competent and just really just a character you want to root for. But some of them had to had to bite it. really, if all of these characters would have lived, it would have been satisfying, but it would have also felt I think we got a little cheaped out, especially considering how brutal some of these villains met their demise. So it it kind of had to happen, but it is such a bummer. And I do want to note, like my reason that I feel that the filmmakers wanted to really be intentional with this is they even have it where he gets to the door and he almost walks outside. And then he realizes he forgot his keys and he goes back up. And for a second, you're like, he's gonna make it. And then nope, he gets the keys. He goes back down and walks right into the trap, which is is heartbreaking, but it was the right choice for the film because it does leave you feeling, like you really want to see Cade get it. One other thing I really want to touch on, I just think it's an important beat for this character, and luckily they do rebound from it, is when everything starts to hit, when the shit hits the fan, and all the characters have to arm up and defend themselves. In the midst of all the chaos, Danielle ironically runs and seeks shelter in the closet. Like Danielle gets in the closet with his little axe and he doesn't do anything to help anybody. And then even after the dust settles and Horatio comes out, he comes out of the closet and he's like, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. I was scared. And I want to be annoyed, but also out of all the characters, Danielle's been through the most of it. And I get at that point, just one does survive the night. I get it. I would have been extra annoyed if they didn't give him the final beat at the end of the film, which clearly we're gonna touch on. I do feel like the character. makes up for it and then some. But there is that really obnoxious little beat where he Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: he chooses to not join the rest and defend themselves. And Troy Escamilla: Yeah, I was Roger: I was like, man, come on. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, I was I was a little annoyed because yeah, we see him get into the closet. He doesn't come out until he knows it's it's safe, technically. but yeah, so poor Chester's dead. and they w there is that scene where they're sitting around trying to figure this out, like who's left, how many of them are left, that you see that now Cade has gotten on the roof and is like pulling all of the guns that they confiscated. He's pulling them up. He's taking them. Roger: The dialogue in this moment is really natural because like the way that they come to the realization of the fact that there is another member, it it just kind of naturally comes about. You know, they're they're talking about the different victims. And when Danielle mentions wanting to see Cade be the one specifically, the one that he wants to see die the most because he was the one that killed all of his friends, he mentions his leather jacket. And you see the moment of Horatio. thinking through all the different guys he saw, and notably none of them are wearing a leather jacket. everyone else is styled very specifically. So when this comes up, you see Horatio pause and say, I didn't see him. And and between that and like the information that that Patrick has been contributing about the walkie-talkie and everything, they're able to come to the conclusion about Cade unfortunately it's too late to save Chester, but They're able to d develop this realization just in the nick of time before Cade actually makes the attack on them. and so again, these characters being so resourceful, being very intelligent, and being a step ahead. I just wish it would have been able to help Chester, but still I think it's impressive that they're able even able to, you know, come to this conclusion for themselves. Troy Escamilla: Yeah, and Cabe so has been really resourceful himself. Let's he he he's taken several steps. He's he's locked all the doors, he's tied he's tied all the doors shut. he took the guns, you know, now he's up on the roof. and they got that they realize there is another person. We got it we gotta get out of here. And they when they try to get out of the the complex, they realize the doors have been barricaded and then they're not gonna be able to go. Well, Patrick says he's gonna go up on the roof. And he'll he'll be the lookout. And you know, they try to talk him out of it, but he's like, No, no, no, I'm gonna go up there. I want I need to help. I I can I can I can use my hearing to help you guys so we know where this person's at. So Patrick does go up on the roof and he's unaware that the the sniper is not dead. And the sniper is able to, through the infrared camera, see Patrick's figure go up under the roof and he he shoots Patrick. At the same time, Horatio does follow Patrick up on the roof, and Patrick has been shot and he knows he's been shot. He says, I I've been hit. I'm bleeding a lot. and Horatio's No, no, no, you're you're gonna be okay. So they go back downstairs and at this point, Kate is in the building, have we have this moment With Barbara, right? Barbara gets attacked. cause K Cabe has found his Cabe knows about this double mirror now. So when he he gets he goes into that the other apartment and he waits. And as they're getting ready to leave, Barbara goes into the bathroom to kind of freshen up. And when she's in the bathroom, he reaches through the the hole, grabs her by the hair. And is literally going to cut her throat. he takes out the knife and he's gonna cut her throat. She's able to grab a little pair of scissors from the stand and stab him in the hand. And that's when they realize he is in the building. This is when things kick into high gear. They're trying to get out, the doors are barricaded. Like I said, Patrick goes up on the roof, he's shot. and no, now it's like a real cat and mouse game. Like, like Barbara's kind of down there by herself. He gives her a knife, Horatio gives her a knife, right? and she's kind of walking through this apartment and she realizes or or notices that that there's some movement behind this this curtain. And I I love the fact that she ha as annoying as she has been throughout the whole film and how almost you know disgusted she is see she is seen by violence. Like I think at this point, because they have we have to acknowledge also they have found Chester's body. she's been attacked. She just goes to that curtain and just fucking plunges that knife into the curtain. And luckily, it is Cabe and he is stabbed, you know, and he grabs her and is is gonna he he pulls out his own knife and he's gonna kill her and stab her. And right before he gets ready to do it, Horatio's there and shoots him. Drops to the floor, they embrace, you see he's not dead. You see him lift up that silencer, that gun with the silencer on it and point it. And I really thought that one of them was gonna be shot. I really did. I did. I thought, well, one of them's dead. I did not expect Daniel, who hid in the closet for most of the movie, to come out of nowhere and plant that axe right in fucking Cabe's throat. But he does. Roger: It's very satisfying. Very, very satisfying. lots of things that just came up in the in this final kind of climax here. I think there's a lot of things we really need to note on these character choices because it goes by pretty quick and and you know that w we streamlined through it, but there's several specific beats that I think are super important. First thing is Patrick Choosing to go up there and arm himself as a blind individual sounds like the worst decision ever. And Barbara definitely should have been like, No, no, no. I'm going to physically keep you down here. You're not going up there. Because what the fuck are you going to do, child, blind child? But no, he chooses to take a knife and go up there and he says, like, well, my hearing is going to be my advantage because it's so dark up there. But he's immediately shot. So clearly he was wrong. second of all, like, what a unique choice. To give Barbara this kind of final moment. Like everybody else has had a moment. She really hasn't done anything. It does feel very intentional. and I do think her character really needed this because she has been really obnoxious. But there was that one moment earlier when when Horatio was like, I need your help, and he gave her that piece of glass, and right away she's like, I see people coming inside. Like for me, that was the turning point. Once she started to jump in and help out. That she became significantly less annoying. And this last moment for her is really well played. it's really, really well executed because what happened specifically is he hides himself behind the curtain where the stereo is. And for a split second, Kay bumps the the knob and turns the stereo on. He turns it off right away, but she hears the speaker like blip. And she's able to realize, like, wait a minute. That would be coming from there. I know where the stereo is. And so that means that someone had to hit that. So that means that somebody is hiding behind that curtain. And she calls out for the other guys several times. They don't respond. So she just goes with her gut and she takes that knife and she stabs it into the curtain and she's fucking right. And how often do you have this moment? Like, really, in horror movies, how often do you have a scenario like this where the he the h the heroine or the hero or whatever kind of goes with a gut feeling and they end up being correct. So often they do something like this, they throw the curtain open, there's nobody there, and then the killer's behind them. No, she's fucking right. she just stabs through the curtain and then he whips the curtain back and he reveals himself to be really badly injured, but he's still able to grab her and tries to stab her and then bang, he gets shot. He drops down. This is all so well played. They're holding each other. The gun starts to come up and thank God, man. Thank fucking God that they gave Danielle that final moment. Because that whole closet bit really left a bad taste in my mouth. But when it comes down to it, Danielle steps in and saves the people that saved him. And not only does he save them, he fucking chucks an ax into a man's neck. Like he does something extremely visceral and violent and I mean, truthfully like fucking masculine. Like he fucking kills that dude. And they like look down at him and he looks up at them and they're just like exasperated. And I get it. what a fucking night. But that, you know, the the finale, that whole bit with Cade, I'd almost dare say it feels a little bit rushed to a certain extent. But really, no, I like the way it pans out because I think giving Barbara that final moment redeemed the character in my eyes a bit. she's by no means a likable character. She's quite annoying. I find her really relatable, though, because I have really bad anxiety and I'd be acting the exact same way. Troy, you it. I'd be sitting there like chain smoking, only it'd be weed. I'd be like, get me another joint. I'm so fucking stressed. The cops are all picketing. We're all gonna get killed. And she was right. Of course she was right. People fucking end up breaking in and killing her friends. so her stress and her anxiety was actually warranted. Though she was very annoying about it. But, giving her that moment was the right call and giving Danielle that moment also the right call. This movie tied up their story really neatly. Almost a little too brisk, though, because the character Patrick, know, he's Troy Escamilla: Mm. Roger: shot up on the roof. And there is a little line that Horatio says to Barbara, after coming, you know, discovering her having assuming that they had killed Cade, he says, Patrick's gonna be okay. But you don't see him again. You don't get another moment with him. And I really Troy Escamilla: Mm mm. Roger: feel that after everything he did to contribute to their safety, having a moment of them like leaving the house together, leaving the apartment, carrying him or something as an ambulance pulled up would have been a delightful cherry atop this delicious Sunday. But I mean, I'm not gonna nitpick it. I'm happy that the characters that did survive did survive, and I think they absolutely earned their survival. Troy Escamilla: For sure. and I'm glad that Daniel got to kill the the person that he wanted to see dead the most. That's another kind of poetic thing because know, a few Roger: Yes. Troy Escamilla: minutes before he says, I wish I could have seen the one, the ringleader, get the worst. I would have loved that. Well, he gets he's the one that gets to do that, to inflict it. but yeah, what a fucking what a horrible fucking night this has been. And yeah, I would have liked, I don't know if like, I don't know. I'm I'm just gonna believe Horatio that Patrick's gonna be okay. I don't know. If you get shot in the chest, chances are you're not gonna be okay. But hey, well we'll we'll we'll we'll pretend he's fine and he's alive. But then the film, you know, it the film d has like a a a tacked unending that of course it does, because we do cut to like the next morning and you do see like someone like with kind of with their leg bandaged running down the street. And then it kind of fades and we come into a new day and it's bright and sunny and as much as bright and sunny it can be for Halifax. And we get news that the strike is ended and the police are back to work. And you're in this park and you get this mother playing catch with her daughter and the ball rolls a little too far and somebody reaches down and picks it up and we see him rise up and it's a police officer. We see the uniform. But then the big reveal as we get to their face is we see that it's the sniper with the bullet with the nail hole still in his cheeks. So these people w at least one of was a fucking police officer. Roger: It's quite a reveal and I appreciate that it's like it's not again, it's not beat over the head, it's not heavy handed, but there's absolutely commentary in there. You know, there's Troy Escamilla: Mm-hmm. Roger: absolutely commentary about police violence and and just the state of our well, this is Canada, but the the police system in general, and the kind of individuals that are given that title of protector for the people and Exactly what kind of people are we putting into these positions and when it comes down to it, you know, are they the are they the right people to do the job? Like clearly in this case, this film is saying something about that. And I really appreciate that. And you know, the character of Lloyd is not a character I would have expected to be like the final shot in the film. Cause, you know, while he was very important as the sniper, he didn't do a lot, but just the visual of him like lifting that ball up, revealing him in that police uniform. those wounds in his face, still fresh in his face. Cause it does say, you know, forty seven days after the strike started, it came to an end. The police went back to their jobs. And just in that shot alone, like it didn't need to be anything more. It says so much. It's the closing visual that we get before the credits start to roll. so intentional, so well played, really makes you think. And like I haven't watched a film Especially a film that we've covered on this podcast, but I just haven't watched a film in a very long time that's made me think about things like this and such relevant things. All of these topics. You know, the the way that the queer community is being ostracized and targeted. the the uprise and the resurgence of almost the Nazi movement really, but like, you know, the the the white Christian nationalism that's clearly depicted in the antagonist within this film, they clearly represent that kind of movement. and, you know, just the fact that they chose to end it on a note that was focused on the ab the the you know the police, but the abuse of authority in general, you know, I think is such a very relevant topic right now. And so that's why I think this movie really just kind of left my jaw on the floor because all of these things that it's touching on, all of these different topics that the film is covering, are things that we're talking about just the same right now in 2026. You know, I mean this is this film is so that's over forty years old. It's forty three years old. And all of these topics are just as relevant now as they were when they made it then, if not more so. And so I'm I'm really just if anything, I'm just left in kind of awe that this film managed to so gracefully and I dare say eloquently touch on these topics without any of them at all feeling like they were being forced down our throats. You know, none of the political commentary, none of the social commentary that's being referenced here. in in a true Romero fashion, coming full circle with with how I started this dialogue. what really feels Romero about this is they're all undercurrents of the actual story that's unfolding. You Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: know, there's so many relevant themes, but none of them are the main focus of what's at hand. You know, again, much like Romero in Night of the Living Dead, the zombies all rep always represented so much more. So here. Everything that's unfolding beneath the violence. There's so much more to this movie. And I just I greatly, greatly appreciate this. I watched it three times over, and each time I enjoyed it more and more. And I definitely think it's a film that I will revisit again and probably again and again and again because I just think that it there's something about that feels unusually timeless. Even though elements feel extremely dated about this film, like the acting, like the sound effects. There's something about it that just feels like they could remake it with the exact same script today and and probably not need to really change anything and it would probably feel Troy Escamilla: Mm mm. Roger: just as fresh right now. Troy Escamilla: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I think it's definitely a film that's ahead of its time. I I I it it's so crazy to think that it's how relevant it still is 43 years later. I mean, that's insane. And yeah, that ending just really does pack a punch and it really makes you think. And again, how how fucking timely. You know, and it may I I had all these questions. Okay, were how were all of them police officers? Like what, you know, I mean, it just it just they they decide to implement this night of terror on the same time that that they're all on strike. It just i th it's yeah, and yeah, w wha what the whole theme about violence, police officer, cop violence, all it just it's so well handled and like I said, it's n like you said, it's not heavy handed at all. It doesn't need to be. everything is very subtle, but the undercurrent is there. And it's a brisk movie. you know, acting aside that you you really care for the the the protagonists and you really despise the antagonists. I mean you will you will hate these people. I mean, this film is going to at some point in in its runtime, its 80 minute runtime, it's going to make you feel something. I guarantee it. I guarantee it. So I would definitely recommend checking this out. I'm really glad we got to to to watch this. I know it's been I know it's been mentioned before. I don't know how I've never seen it. maybe because it's it's more it's more horror adjacent than it is, you know, a horror film, straight out horror film. But it's it's a pretty effective effective watch. And again, you're gonna you're gonna feel something. Roger: Definitely an effective watch. I'm so happy that we covered it. And I hope our listeners are as well. And I'm sure that whatever title we cover for our next episode Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: will also be an effective watch, especially because it'll be just Troy Escamilla: Yeah. Roger: in time, fingers crossed, for Halloween. So, Troy, let's say Troy Escamilla: Two Roger: it right now, we're going to get this episode out before Halloween, even on our restricted schedules, because I know it's a very seasonal offering. Troy Escamilla: W we we will. Halloween's Halloween's next Saturday. We have over a week. And trust me, the film that we're that we're covering, you're not gonna need a lot of time spent analyzing it. yeah, you guys know me by now. You've known this podcast by now. You know that that my choices and sometimes Roger's choices are super obscure. and I wanted to do something Halloween themed, but nothing that is every other podcast has covered, you know. We don't need we don't need to cover Halloween, Halloween too, even though we have covered Halloween 2 on our our, we we we don't need to do any of that. So I've I came across an 80 slasher flick from 1988 that I've seen. and it's takes place on Halloween. It's very it's very much Halloween, and it is a little indie low budget slasher called Hollow Gate. Not Hollow Lake, Hollow Gate. and if you haven't seen it, Roger, you're you're in for a treat. You're in for a treat. That's all I'll say. Roger: Well, it is the season for treats in it. Tis the season for tricks. And speaking of tricks, much like of the characters at the start of this movie, I'm sure Troy will be hustling himself over to the gay bar, probably the fun hog, to find himself a couple of tricks and a couple of treats after this. let's just hope that it doesn't end up the same way that this one did. my god, that's morbid. my lord. Troy Escamilla: no, no, no, no. Roger: Ooh, not in Vegas. They love the gays in Vegas. Troy Escamilla: No. yeah. Vegas. Gay it all up here in Vegas. But guys, whew. So let us know your thoughts on Siege. if you haven't watched it, watch it and and get back to us and let us know your thoughts on it. Particularly the I mean everything we've talked about, how relevant it is. Let us know your thoughts. And then if you haven't seen Hollow Gate, it is on Tubi. It's still there. I checked today. you are yeah, it's it's something. It's something. So we are it's it's Halloween though. It's a Halloween film, okay? Okay. Roger: Lucky us the season Troy Escamilla: Yeah. But with that, guys, thank you so much for tuning in. And we will be back before Halloween with Hollow Gate. Roger: Hollow Gate, I just can't wait. Good night. Troy Escamilla: look at the r good night.