Latest / Outdoor Hospitality Podcast: Glamping, STR, Resorts, Unique Stays, RV Parks, RV Resorts & Campgrounds / How A College Painter Built A $13M Hospitality Portfolio - Joe Lisa of Sol Stay & Fireside Capital

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How A College Painter Built A $13M Hospitality Portfolio - Joe Lisa of Sol Stay & Fireside Capital · Outdoor Hospitality Podcast: Glamping, STR, Resorts, Unique Stays, RV Parks, RV Resorts & Campgrounds

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back, friends, to another episode of the Unique Hospitality Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm joined for part two of the founder story of Joe Lisa.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Joe.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for having me, man.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we the reason why I wanted to have Joe back on for a part two, he was on maybe six months ago with uh his investor, Bill Nolan, for an awesome episode about their floating glamping experience called Soul Stay in Standusky, Ohio on Lake Erie.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a great conversation with both him and Bill.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then in speaking with him and Bill after it, Bill informed me that, you know, before this project, Joe had worked on, you know, half a dozen others and had a bunch of other side projects.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he recommended that I bring Joe on for a second part series to dive into that and some of the lessons learned because it sounds like he's you know been through the the school of hard knocks and and and entrepreneurship of you know, just go figure shit out.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so that's kind of the impetus for for today's episode.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I was chatting a little bit with with Joe right before we started recording, and you had you had just what's the guy's name?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Tyson Chandler?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Chandler David Smith.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Chandler David Smith.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: He's a bowler.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Tell it just tell tell me about uh how you found this retreat, and yeah, just tell me about it and and what you got out of it, why you did it, what what you got out of it.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I I found out about it because Chandler invested actually in Cleveland on a lot of projects.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I've got a quadplex in Cleveland that I turned into kind of like an Italian mobster kind of uh feeling property.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just kind of messaging him back and forth from like a Facebook group that he posted in, and then I started following him and I was like, oh cow, this guy's got a huge following and make some really cool videos and content.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then I don't know, maybe two weeks, three weeks later, he posted something about doing this retreat for guys in real estate and trying to like grow their portfolio and but also like grow as as an individual as well.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: And it was it was insane, man.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was cool.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_04: There's so many cool dudes in one spot.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: Just everybody kind of had their own, did was doing like their own thing, but everybody wanted to help everybody, and and that was I don't know, it's always just like a fun, inspiring thing, and and you kind of leave with like a fire to just like hit the gas pedal and run through brick walls when you do something like that and you're around a ton of inspiring people.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: So was there any like specific nuances you took away as it pertains to you know business and real estate?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then was there anything that might have been more personal or uh like you know soft skill or something, maybe out more spiritual or something, you know, out outside of maybe a hard business skill or insight?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think both of them kind of came together.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like like that was even part of part of it, like really trying to like align your purpose of like what you're doing in life, like with what you're doing in business and everything, and what that purpose is and what what you're trying to get out of life and what life is supposed to look like and what what you want to create and your impact to be on the world.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that's you know, you can get really deep there, but at the end of the day, I I feel like a lot of it centered back into like you know, creating beautiful things, like I'm and internally for me, a lot of creating beautiful things, making you know people happy, and like those things kind of tying together and and being able to have fun and and like keep things lighthearted.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's like my personality as a whole, is I try to just make jokes about everything and keep things kind of you know easy going and and not too not too serious too often.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_04: And that that kind of like rooted back into like what I'm what I'm doing with building Soul Stay and building out like different other properties that are hospitality related and they're they're experiential.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean that's literally what what this is, right?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_04: Experiential hospitality podcast.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's like that really aligns with my purpose as a whole, and and that kind of was what I I really was realizing at this at this event is you know, I I want to have a family, I want to have I want to raise them to be like a God-fearing family, and I want to are God fearing children, and I want to have a wife, and I want to, you know, be able to like have a tight-knit relationship that all kind of builds together around what I'm creating and be able to give them the experiences and be able to have them be excited about creating experiences for other people as well.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_04: And all that, I don't know, all of that was like a a web that just kind of like weaved in all different directions.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know, that was a long-winded answer, but that's it's it was really it was cool to feel all of that kind of coming together and really at the end of the day, like staying in line with your purpose no matter like what path maybe like wavered it a little bit because either you know fate just is is supposed to make it happen, or you know, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, along that line of purpose, even if it's good or if it's bad, if it stays within purpose, there's good things that always come out of the bad things that are kind of like in that line, as long as you're like living your life in that line.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: So building beautiful things in beautiful places, making people happy who get to experience those places, and you know, having fun and and laughing and being a goofball while doing it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is that did I get those correct?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_04: Pretty pretty much just live life and be happy and help people around you be happy too.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: I my my why I think is is very similar.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's um yeah, I I want to create beautiful places immersed in in harmony with nature so that people can disconnect to reconnect with themselves, loved ones, and nature.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, like very similar.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I I had a a Finnish friend who had a tech startup and he he the tech startup ended up failing, and he has this whole TED TED talk on it and why it failed basically in like his journey.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: And his biggest takeaway from that was that the the company was doomed as as soon as they stopped having fun.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and I thought I always thought that was super interesting.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I I do think it's funny that that you mentioned how important that is, and it reminds me of this quote where it's like, you know, don't take life too seriously because you never get out alive.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And would would you recommend this type of like retreat or real estate meetup to other entrepreneurs out there in the space?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_04: Dude, hands down, just I I was skeptical going in because I'd never really gone to like more of a solo type trip.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like I've never really gone to a trip like that by myself.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: It'd always been like bringing some of my guys with me or going to like those pump-up events where there's like 2,000 people there.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_04: This was a room of like 30 or 40 guys.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: So like by the end of the trip, you knew everyone's first name, you knew a little bit about them, a little bit about what they're doing, and a little bit about what their goals were in life and and and business and and everything.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: So it was really cool, and I it was the first time I ever did breath work.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Dude, that was that was crazy.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, was it did he did he lead it or did he bring like a someone in to lead it?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_04: He brought in a guy named Nate Harris.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think Nate used to be like really tied in with like the bigger pockets guys.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I don't really know uh a ton, but Nate's a freaking stud.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: And he is a wholesome human and he led it, and it was it was very crazy.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: It was like I felt like I was flying but also like sinking into the ground at the same time and just breathing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I've had similar experiences.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've I've been kind of adjacent to that world a lot and I've experienced like several different breath workshops.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to say that most of the time, maybe like four out of my five times doing those really intense ones that are like at least 15 to 30 minutes, it is probably one of the most I don't know, the only way I can describe it is like an energetic release.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like I have clarity, I feel like I have levity, and I feel like relaxed and and at ease.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, what do you did you feel anything else besides like floating and sinking?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, oh yeah.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I mean afterwards, I mean even like kind of during too, it was like you're you're at ease, you're you feel like everything around you is starting to make sense.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_04: And it again, I think even part of that was like after it made me feel like I wanted to run through a brick wall and just like conquer the world and like anything was possible if I just wanted to believe it be possible.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: You know, whatever the mind can conceive and believe, the mind can achieve.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I love it.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Did you get T-Rex arms?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: A little bit, a little bit.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, I felt I felt like it was like it was cold outside when it was happening too, so it was like we were like sh all shaking and having like these like like I don't know.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: It was a it was a strange strange thing, but it was it was very very cool.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: For the listeners of when you do this type of I think it's called like tectonic breathing or something like that, you your your hands and your body can clench up and you can get like it, you your fingers clench up and you can't move.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's really quite a bizarre sensation that you've probably never felt in your life, but it's it's pretty weird, or you can get tingling, you know, in different places in your body and stuff.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: And had you done, I know there are for the listeners, like there is different real estate meetup groups or entrepreneur meetup groups in a lot of different cities.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: You I think you can I've actually never done it.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: I've been meaning to do it since I moved to Seattle, but I think you can just look on like the app Meetup or like LinkedIn or Facebook groups, like find these young professional groups or or or old professional groups for your non-age specific groups of you know, for your city.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I guess do you have experience with that or anything you'd recommend?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I love going so Cleveland's pretty close to Sandusky, so there's a lot of meetups around Cleveland.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_04: And then I've gone to a decent handful of events that are larger, you know, at least a thousand or so people that are like around raising capital.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: Grant Cardome puts on his 10x growth con.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: Went to that before, where it's like it's very inspiring stuff, but I would say definitely like the more intimate meetups you meet like genuine humans, and that's like life's all about.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, very cool.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: All right, well, let's uh let's maybe jump into it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you could just give a refresher to the audience of like where where you're at today, maybe as a glamping or hospitality or like real estate professional, like where are you at today, and then we can kind of rewind and start from the beginning.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so right now at this very moment, I'm sitting in Sandusky, Ohio.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_04: I'm actually at our Soulstay location.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I I currently live in Sandusky, Ohio, but our Soul Stay location we built out from basically a distressed marina that was kind of falling apart and hadn't had love in it for a long time, and we've turned it into now a 20-unit property with 17 glamping units on the water from tiny houseboats to like luxury houseboats and then three different cottages on land, and have kind of built out from there.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: I've got a couple other properties in Michigan that are all kind of in the same like outdoor hospitality space that are basically like one's a motel in northern Michigan that's just like a strip motel with uh river frontage and like a boardwalk along the river.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: And we've again that was a place that was very rough.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_04: There were people living in it full time when we bought it, and yeah, that's just those are the kind of things I love doing that's bring bring new life back into beautiful old things that definitely at one point were new.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So Connor, do you want to talk about glamping permits for a second?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's it's hugely important.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: The two biggest roadblocks to getting you know glamping projects built is the funding and the entitlements and the permitting.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's it's a really big deal.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it can be a very challenging and you know, sometimes quite intimidating process, not just putting all the materials together, but presenting it to the county, often going through the public hearing process, which can be really scary and sometimes quite nasty.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it does help to have people who are used to doing this on your side.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we're delighted to announce that uh today's sponsors are Clockwork Architecture and Design.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're an architecture firm based in Kansas City.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: They have a specialist outdoor hospitality division that have done tons of work in the glamping and RV resort space.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're experts at designing and permitting glamping resorts or whatever kind of outdoor hospitality project it is.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: They'll come to your property, walk the land with you, work at work through a concept with you, design the whole layout of the site, and then gather all the materials for the county, deal with the county, deal with the public hearings if you'd like them to.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they're just you know all-round fantastic partners to have on your side.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And Connor, I know you and Sage have had some pretty good experiences with clockwork as well.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've we've been working with Clockwork literally the entire time that I've been at the company, so for four years.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so we've done dozens and dozens of projects with them and love the chance to get to work with them because you know they are the best and most experienced in the industry.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: They they really know outdoor hospitality and they've designed some world-class sites.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, yeah, they're they're very talented.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: You'd be in good hands to work with them.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I can't vouch highly enough for Christian Arnold at Clockwork, the owner.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's a you know fantastic guy who cares about what he does, looks after his clients, very reliable communication-wise as well.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we're we're super excited to partner with them on this.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are looking for site designs, you know, entitlement help, whatever it may be in that field, then do contact Clockwork Architecture and Design.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the way you can do that is by emailing Christian at clockwork-ad.com.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: All the details will be in the description as well.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So go check that out if you want.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, thank you, Clockwork.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't recommend them highly enough.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Go check them out.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: What was like your first step into getting into you know real estate or hospitality or clamping?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: How did that journey begin?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I would say it all kind of started all the way back when I ran a painting business in college.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: We painted how exterior exterior painting, we painted houses and made people's houses values increase by making them go from looking bad to looking good.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_04: And it made me start to realize that there was a lot of value in painting, just because you know the aesthetics of things really do uh help people be less intimidated of walking inside and seeing the rest of the house.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: So that that kind of made me feel the confidence to buy and flip my first property, and I started, you know, just saving up like every dollar I could to be able to have some sort of financial freedom.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: At least that's what I thought the goal was.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I eventually bought a property in Erie, Michigan that was on like a peninsula on the waterfront.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: It was on the Ottawa River, and it was just a little cottage for$72,000.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I I had stayed in an Airbnb, like I don't know, probably two months before this in Austin, Texas, and it was in somebody's garage.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, dang, if if people can like do this whole Airbnb thing in garage garages, then like people have to do really well with Airbnbs in like beautiful places.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_04: And this this like property specifically, because it was on a peninsula, there was a piece of property across the street from it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, well, let's build something here.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_04: So we got one of those prefab sheds from Home Depot and converted it into a little tiny house, and then we had two units.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_04: And if you're not familiar with uh Michigan and and building codes and things like that, it's very light in most areas.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: And when you're in cities and things, it's it's a lot more strict, but the outskirts they they allow you to have fun.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the dream.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's the dream.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Alright, what what next after your your first uh Airbnb cottage project?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so after that, I I was basically like a year before I graduated college, I graduated and I had no idea what I wanted to do.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: I had a couple job offers, but I was like, this just doesn't feel like what I want to be tied to.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I had saved up a decent amount of money just from making making money painting, and a buddy of mine actually decided that he was gonna be moving to Arizona, and I was like, hey man, like let me come out there and like let's just check stuff out.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so we went out there and stayed at these little like tents, yurt style things, and I was like, dang, dude, we could we could definitely build these things, and we were about 30 minutes from the Grand Canyon, the place that we stayed.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, being lover of Zillow like most humans are, we just pulled up Zillow while we were out there and started scrolling around trying to find pieces of property that we could actually afford.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then we found one that we could afford and we went and drove past it and started walking around this property, and we eventually bought it.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: And from there, we did every single thing wrong that you could do in setting up a glamping site.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Please let's dive in.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: So that property was one acre, and we built two tiny houses and three yurt sites on it.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: And about we were actually staying while we were there in a motel six.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_04: We had four guys staying in a motel six.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: I remember sleeping on like the couch cushions on the ground, and then my buddy Connor was sleeping on a camping mat on the ground.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: We let the other two guys have the beds.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: But that was that was a beautiful thing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: We uh we had a lot of fun, and again, like so many memories were created out there around, you know, just sitting by campfires at night and just working hard throughout the day.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: And we we built this site out, and it really only took us about two and a half weeks, which if you have any familiarity with timelines, it shouldn't it should take you a lot more than two and a half weeks if you're doing it the right way.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Damn.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and that was that was for two tiny homes and a yurt yurts?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: Were they on decks or yeah, yeah.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_04: So we basically we were building like a deck in like half a day, so we were just zipping along and build the decks really fast, and then the tiny houses we we ordered again like Home Depot prefab tiny houses, so we just had to outfit the inside of them once they got delivered, and then we built out a little shower house area with a composting toilet, and it was it was a cool setup, honestly.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: It was like freedom.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: It felt like felt like everything that I'd ever wanted in one place, like I could just hang out and have a good time, and there were no worries in the world.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: I could look out at the mountain.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_04: It was it was cool.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: So how'd it go when you open for business?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_04: So it went well for the first the first six six months, eight months or so.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: What year was this by the way?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: This was 2019.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_04: So it was it was right as like everything kind of started to to turn in the world.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_04: I guess I guess it started a little bit after that, but around 2019 was when we s when we opened, and then we rocked and rolled the first year almost, and then we were told that we you know needed to do all these things that with the current property that we had, we actually like physically could not do.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: There was you know, there were a lot of zoning requirements in that area that said that if you wanted to have a glamping site, you had to have at least 10 acres.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we only had one acre, and you couldn't buy the acres around you unless you convinced everybody that lived there to move.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: So during that, we we did make money in the process of of you know building that first site out, and so we reinvested all those profits into buying a site down the road right off the highway that was 10 acres and built out site number two.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me what lessons learned going into site number two.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: What'd you do what'd you do differently?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: So that that time we still did a lot of wrong things, but but we learned a lot in the process.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: So we we had somebody do a uh septic system for us instead of having a compost toilet, which makes things a lot easier.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_04: We started setting up our sites and everything without going to a planning or zoning hearing because we were like, well, we have 10 acres, so that means that we are allowed to do what we want to do now, right?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: So then we had to go backwards after that and and restart, and we had a guy basically fly like a drone over the property and like map out where everything was that we had put up already, and then submit that to the county.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like he actually made it into like a CAD image and everything, and then we submitted that to the county.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_04: We went like in reverse through the process.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: So that was fun.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Were you able to get it approved?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: So we got it, we got it approved.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: It was just like a conditional use, but then they did have like a lot of stipulations on timing of things, so like we only had a two-year permit because they wanted us to in two years be able to transfer into like a more like high impact septic system and a lot of other things, and that like as we started like looking more into it, running that site wasn't really something that we thought was like worthwhile without going and actually like raising a ton of money to make the site come to life because just doing the septic system alone was gonna be like a quarter of a million dollars.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: And a septic system that we got put in originally, I think, was like they called it a vault and haul system, which is essentially like a tank that just got pumped out on a on a contract, like you had to have it set up and you had to submit your contract with the pump out company to be able to get your approval.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_04: But then after your two-year term was up, you had to basically say, Hey, we're gonna pay the 250 to get a real system put in now because we've proved that the concept works and we're gonna actually invest in this place.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_04: And that that was when we decided it was probably not uh viable to invest$250,000 just into where our waste was gonna go.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: But there there are definitely I mean it definitely there are are many things that are worth$250,000 for your waste.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So what how did you structure your first b so how old were you at the time?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Which which site?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: I guess for the first one and the yeah, the in 2019 I would have been uh 20 what I just I just turned 29, so go back six years, right?
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so 22, 23.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 22, 23.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're with your how did you like form your entity and like raise the money to buy this?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: And like how did you amongst friends, like how did you structure all of that?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_04: So the first one basically I just used my money from painting and I just convinced all my friends that were working for me painting to come out and help me do this thing.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I just paid them hourly to help help create it, and yeah, it it was it was interesting.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: But that was all all capital that I had I had uh already saved.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: So basically it it was it was something that was pr probably really risky if you look back at it, because it was like all the money that I had.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: But did you just do all cash?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_04: Everything for that for that site, yeah.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: We every single thing that we did was was cash.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: So how about the second property?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Was that all cash?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: The second property we actually because we thought we knew what you were doing, we Oh, it just has to be 10 acres.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're good.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: We went and actually took on people as like like revenue share type investors, so basically like they could buy a unit.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: So like we had like a five-year term that we were like, or no, three-year term that they could be on a unit.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like, hey, this is just debt, like we're gonna sign that you know, this is how much money you're loaning us, and this is how much money we're you're gonna get back.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_04: And if the amount that this unit makes is greater and X percent like like as a management fee almost, if the amount that we make on this unit is greater, then you make you know, X percent of that amount greater than just the initial loan that was set up for.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_04: Were they collateralized?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_04: So no, it I mean some some people I think put like a lien on the property for the time, but it it really was just like a private debt note of just hey, this is how much money you're giving us, and this is how much money we're giving you back.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: And most of it was like fifteen thousand dollars, like it was like fifteen thousand dollar increments.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_04: So to me, I was I I felt good about the fact that hey, at the end of the day, I know that my other place had made you know a decent amount of money in in just a year's time, so I feel pretty good that in the first year we should be able to pay all these people back, or or like the first year, a year and a half, even if if things aren't going well, and if things don't go well, I know how to paint houses, so I'll go back to doing that.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, how'd you find these investors?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Are these friends and family?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah, mostly we're like friends and family or like friends of like I mean, because because of like so many, I had like 15 guys involved in like building out this project that were all just like guys that in some way were connected to me or like one-off connected to me from friends, and everybody was talking about it because it was like, Why are these like 20-year-old dudes doing out in the desert just building these random like glamping sites and domes and A-frame cottages?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like so it it it had a it was pretty easy to almost like sell to people as like a hey, look, like this is what it looks like, and then we'd show them a picture of it, or like we walk them around the property on like a video tour and and showed them.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: So what was the returns you were promising people?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: You'd say, Hey, give me$15,000, and at the end of two years or three years, I'll give you$20 back, or like how are you structuring that?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was just like 8%.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: So it was like, hey, this is you're gonna give us 15, we're gonna give you back like I think it was like 21 or something, or 20,000 and like 600.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know the I don't remember the exact off the top of my head.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_04: We've done a lot of deals since then, but it was around it it was eight percent, and it was around that like 15 to 21, like basically they got back 21 at the end or something like that.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I mean, I I felt like that wasn't like an overpromise of anything.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_04: It was very like, hey, realistically, like this isn't us, you know, selling the family farm.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: This was us just saying, Hey, we think we can make money doing this, and if you want to support us in this vision and believe in us, we think we could give you your money back and a little bit more.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Were you able to?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_04: We we we gave everybody their money back and everybody was happy, and um some of them still do deals with us today.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: So Wow.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: So what what ended up so you you ran the property for two years with whatever your was it five units?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: No, it was fifteen.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Fifteen.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_04: That that location was fifteen units.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: In the process of that, we sold the location that was not able to be ran.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: Somehow, though, the lady that bought it from us was like a yoga instructor out of California, and she was allowed to keep it and run it as a yoga retreat.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know how exactly she was able to pull that off, but she was able to like use it for that specific purpose, but not as like vacation rentals.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: So interesting.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know how.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Were you able to sell it at a profit versus like the money you put into it?
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I got back every dollar that I had into it and then a little bit, but I also had already made I think like around 150 grand running it.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, even if we just yeah, even if we just sell it at you know what we had into it, it really was cool with me.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: So and that's you know, that's a good lesson for the listeners, is well, I mean, I think you obviously did this in like a very thrifty, low-risk way in terms of probably the amount of capital you spent and like working with friends.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, one good lesson is like if you go in and you buy a piece of land, as long as you're not grossly overpaying for that land, and you know, as long as the money that you're spending is a general improvement that anyone would have value in, it's pretty hard to lose money, especially significant money, on that type of you know, deal and work.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: So even if you might be super nervous to put a hundred thousand in or you know, a million of dollars in, your your risk of losing money on that is low, and there's a good chance you might actually make money on those improvements and just like the general trend of property value increasing over time.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_04: And all the things that we were doing on the land were able to be done to the land.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_04: There was nothing wrong with that.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_04: It was the use.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_04: It was the fact that we were renting it out afterwards, and that's the zoning side that was not allowed.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: So so you run this first property for two years and then you just s sold the property, or what what happened?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: So this the second property, yeah, we ran for ran it for two years, but in the process of that one coming to life, I bought one outside of uh of Joshua Tree in 29 Palms, and we started site out there, like right in the heart of COVID.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_04: It was like all this stuff was kind of happening, right, as COVID was happening.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it was a very just like wild, everything was the wild west, literally.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_04: But material was extremely expensive, but also flights were really cheap, and everybody was traveling.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_04: It was like we need to get another site up because we're fully booked this weekend, so let's build another one.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: Let's build another one.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like so you were able to get a property permitted in 29 palms for glamping?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: So uh that was another another one of those.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: And in the process of doing that, we sold that that property still actually is running today.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's called like Sunkiss Glamping.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_04: But we were able to we we didn't get a permit again because we still hadn't been told that what we did on the other place, it was like timing-wise, we still haven't been told what what we were doing on the other place was wrong yet.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_04: We just thought that it was to buy the 10 acres and you're good, and just you know, make sure you're getting a permit to build your deck and that kind of stuff.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: But the uh one in 29 Palms was very much like the county that we were in, they didn't the area we were at was called Wonder Valley, and it was basically like no one really wanted to go out there if they were from the county.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_04: It was very far from the county's like center offices, and it was COVID, and no one no one did anything then during COVID if they were government employees.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: So we put the site together, it was fully solar powered, it was completely off-grid.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_04: We got a septic system approved and all that stuff, but it was from a cabin that was already a recreational cabin, and it had the acreage and everything that we needed, but they didn't really have like a ton of information out there as to like what you were allowed to do and not allowed to do because people were literally building whatever they wanted out there, and it was still kind of like early in the whole, hey, you can do it this way or you can do it that way.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: And we we had like the main things that they were concerned about covered.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_04: We had a legal septic system, and our trash was hauled out every single Thursday, and those were like the the main concerns that they had.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like they wanted to know that if your like your waste was legally being taken care of and and not gonna be like polluting anything, and that your trash was not blowing all over the desert and you know gonna kill animals because you're they're gonna eat plastic.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so we were able to run this site and we we ran it for it was honestly crazy.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_04: That site was like always sold out.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_04: It was like I'm but we were also like$125 outside of Joshua Tree, you know what I mean?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: You you don't really have too many places that are renting for$125, but for us, that was it was 15 sites that were$125 a night, and I mean we only had probably$175,$180 grand invested in this property.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so it it it started really making money quickly, and then we learned about different things that we were supposed to do, and in the process, the only reason actually that we learned out there that we did anything wrong because no one ever said that we weren't allowed to do what we did.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_04: No one said, Hey, you need to get a permit to do this or you need to get a permit to do that, zoning-wise, like in the past, it was very much like hey, this is these these are our units, they're up and running.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: That was before 29 Palms had their numbers every single permit and every single listing, like in the apps for like the OTAs, you have to put in the actual like unit or like the the permit number now, or else your unit doesn't even go up on those platforms.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: So that was before all that started happening, because people like me, I guess.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: But uh but the location is it like I said, it's still open today, and I like I said, the main reason that they still have it open today, they grandfathered everything in once COVID was over that we had done because of the trash and because of the septic being done, right?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_04: Those were their main concerns, and the rest of it was basically just like dispersed camping on camping land.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_04: It was a recreational property that was being used for camping, and so the the new owners were able to get a conditional youth permit after we had sold it.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: But I helped I like kind of had to help them prove that we did it first and they were grandfathered in.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_04: So it was pretty cool.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_04: So why did you decide to sell the property?
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: Because it was really far away from me.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: It was like 40 hours by vehicle, and it's still like to fly into Vegas and then drive, it was like still probably like a five, six hour trip, and I had no clue what I was doing still, and that was I didn't have anybody there.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like in in Arizona, I had my best friend for like ever.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: So it was very much like everything's good.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: This one was like, dang, we're printing money, but like we can't keep up, and I don't want to like I don't want to feel like every night I'm like trying to figure out I'm I was fielding calls at like two or three in the morning back and back home to help people know where they're supposed to go.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: And it's this is the desert, but every day I was fielding calls because it's dark out there, and I was like, this is terrible because the time difference was like three hours.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, this is it was not not ideal.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um what made you go to 29 Palms in the first place?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_04: Just exploring.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's did you just find a cool piece on Zillow and you're like, yeah.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, basically.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a cool cabin that that needed some love, and we felt like we were confident enough to be able to give it the love that it needed, and that became like the caretaker's house, and then the restrooms were like built off of the back corner of it, and it was already kind of set up the way we wanted it to be set up.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: It was like, oh, they've got like some cool outdoor showers, they were very like run down and not in great shape, but they had some cool outdoor showers, they had like a bed, it was a one-bed, one-bath house, and there was already indoor plumbing and everything there.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_04: It was all set up to a water tank, but it was basically like taking what was there and just like bringing breathing new life into it, and that's kind of like been my MO at like everything that we've we've done since.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_04: We've just we've just learned a lot more on on ways to do it the right way.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: After that, after kind of like learning through helping them and learning through the things we did wrong in Arizona, we learned like basically everything that you can do wrong in a glamping site, so it made it a lot easier to do everything right.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that was that was the beauty of it.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then and all in, I mean, everything that we did wrong, we were still only maybe 300 grand total invested into these locations because they were very low impact, and that's like the beauty of like the like outdoor tourism spaces.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: You can stay low impact, you can you know keep nature nature, and you can you know have a really beautiful space still.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's the cool part of it, you know.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: So hello listeners.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is Sherry Halala, founder of Sage Outdoor Advisory.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you're launching an outdoor hospitality project like Clamping, we can help.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: We offer feasibility studies and appraisals.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: What that means is we look at your specific market and proposed business offering and complete an in-depth analysis to make sure that your planned business will be profitable.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Getting a second opinion on your proposal and forecasted financials is critical to understand before you spend years of your time and hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is particularly important if you are looking to raise money for your project from a bank or private investors.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: They are going to want to see this type of deep dive analysis from an independent third-party specialist in the industry.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: We at Sage have completed well over 250 feasibility studies and appraisals in outdoor hospitality in North America in the last four years.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we understand what it takes to bring a project from concept to reality.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: If this sounds like it could be helpful to you, you can go to our website, SageOutdoorAdvisory.com, and schedule a call with our team while you're there.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: Check out our proprietary glamping database map too.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now back to the show.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: So what are kind of the pros and cons of going from these, you know, what I like Grand Canyon?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: I assume you were operating in Coconino County there.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is I think a pretty high regulatory county now.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then 29 Palms, which I think is the same county as Joshua Shree, right?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe this Bernardino.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which is also super, super high regulatory.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you you go from these two like ultra high tourism areas, but also ultra, I would say like ultra high regulatory, to Ohio, you know, operating in Michigan and Ohio, which, you know, I'm not super familiar with like the tour.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know like Illinois is population negative.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how is Ohio comparatively speaking?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is it like still growing as a state in terms of like population real estate values?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I would say, I mean, real estate, especially over the last three years, has been phenomenal growth.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_04: There's also a lot of outside dollars and outside investment coming into the Midwest, especially from California and outwest.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_04: So it's kind of inflated values uh astronomically because they can go and get.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they're like we actually kind of talked about this over the weekend where there's out west you invest your money in some of these markets, and your return on a let's just say fourplex that you're renting is maybe at like a five cap where you can invest the same amount of dollars in Ohio and have maybe like closer to 15, maybe 20.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_04: So if if you can do that, would you be willing to take the risk and hire a property management company to take care of it for you?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, then it takes away the headache from you because somebody else is taking care of the headache, and you're probably getting a higher cash from cash return.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I would say overall Ohio, though, real estate-wise has gone up population-wise, I think that cities of Ohio, like especially Columbus, is growing a ton.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: There's other areas of Ohio that are definitely declining in population because they they have very elderly communities, and unfortunately, people do die.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: And if if they're not, you know, having kids stay in the area or you know reproduce in the area?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_04: Simply the the math doesn't add, it just declines, it just decreases and subtracts.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: So how has it been going from maybe these areas that are maybe ultra high tourism to ultra and ultra high regulatory to maybe an area that's not as strong in tourism, but also is a lot more you know development or tourism friendly?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like what are the kind of the pros and cons of that switch?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_04: I would say I would say the the pros and cons would be I I think everything out west was was more was more regulated in general.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: I mean literally even just like taxing buying wood, but the the pros have been way more outweighing of the cons.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: But I think even when I got in out west, the the regulatory stuff, it was so new.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like everything Airbnb-wise was still like kind of coming together, trying to decide how to regulate things, right?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: So we were we were very kind of lucky that they didn't have a ton of like they were starting to write the jurisdiction, they're starting to create the different ways that things were going to be governed, but it was all very gray.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like, hey, we're you know, this is this is what a conditional use permit looks like, and then it was like there's all these different dots that crossed over.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_04: So that that was like that was tough, but it was also really fun, and then you come to Ohio and it's like well, they again are very like they're both very pro-tourism, right?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_04: But they're they're less regulation.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like Ohio, they still want pro-tourism, they want it to be done the right way, but they they also want you to have like the ability to kind of do what you want with your property a little bit more.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_04: But part of the reason that this has been a little bit easier is just because I learned so much of what we did wrong, I started just buying properties that we could do what we wanted to do.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_04: So like you still have to go through zoning hearings, you still have to go through all of those different things if you don't buy those type of properties in any state, right?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, so it really wasn't a ton of difference on like the pro this or pro that.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_04: It was just uh I bought the properties that were already kind of in the wheelhouse of what we wanted to do, so it made it a lot less regulatory on that end.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_04: And as far as like the the permitting process, the permitting process was a lot more simple for the for everything we've done in Ohio versus everything that we've done out west.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_04: So that's kind of a long-winded answer there, but yeah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that is interesting that you know maybe part of it was just that you know you've become the better developer, you know, and and that might be right.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: Because I probably made the same mistake like two or three times.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: And now I've now I've got a lot more failures under my belt.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, so it's fail fast, you know, fail fast, fail often.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's lessons, yeah, right?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's no failure.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: No failures, just lessons.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, one interesting thing that I've noticed in your story, and I'd be curious what your thoughts are on this, is that most of the properties that you've gotten involved with are relatively small from a unit count perspective.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I would imagine, you know, that obviously correlates with you know maximum revenue potential at a property.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: I remember having a conversation with a guy at the Glamping Show, and he was basically like, well, you know, whether you whether you developed a 50 unit apartment or a 550 unit apartment, like the work that goes into those two properties is nearly the same.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe, maybe the the 551 is maybe twice as hard as the one that's 50 units.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: And but you get you know 10x the you know, 10x the potential value from those efforts.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just curious, like a lot of the projects that you've done have been like these really creative rehabilitation stuff, but they've all been on the smaller side.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you have a goal to be on the bigger side, or is there a reason that you're staying more on the smaller side?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_04: I would say it I mean, yeah, I will I want to get a little bit larger, but I do think that there is like a charm to a more boutique experience that people do seek out.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of times that you know people would rather stay at a place that they know it maybe has 20 units or 15 units or whatever it might be, but they know that it's like a mom and pop, so they feel like they're going, they're like supporting like a small business versus like they're they're booking something online and it's this beautiful you know corporation resort by some private equity firm.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I yeah, I hear you.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean that's how I prefer to travel.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just so much more interested in like smaller, what's the word?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: More authentic, more mom and pop rather than like a mega corporation commercial experience.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I think financially speaking, as far as these unit counts go, I I do feel like I'm learning that to be able to be less hands-on at a property, because I was very hands-on at every single property, that's why I was answering the phone at 3 a.m.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_04: in Ohio, telling people where to go in California.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: But the thing that I've I've learned with uh especially with Soulstay and my property up in Michigan now, is like you know, once you get to closer to like that 1520 number, it's usually enough that you can start to have have somebody be more of like a manager or somebody can kind of hold that role down, but you're still gonna be pretty involved in like, hey, this is things that we need to do to make operating more profitable.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_04: Is this things that we need to do to be able to market better?
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's not gonna be somebody that's gonna be doing your, you know, everything promotional related to be able to push your your property out there.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_04: That's gonna be somebody that's gonna be boots on the ground to help you keep the property running and keep make sure the guests are gonna have a great check-in experience.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I think once we get past maybe maybe that 30 to 50 number, it it changes that a little bit more.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: And and right now, that's what I'm trying to create with with the properties that we bought, they have so much more expansion potential that we, you know, the not the sky's the limit, but you know, these properties, because we we were a little bit more, I guess you could say intelligent, um, but in buying, they they have room to continue to grow versus those original ones.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: It was like, hey, that's kind of like the max that we could do there.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_04: We we maybe could have done a little bit more on on like the 10-acre property, for example, but like the marina, for example, it's permitted for 62 slips.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_04: Are we gonna put 62 you know houseboats here?
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: Probably not.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think that there's like potential, you know, supply-demand kind of thing that would that would start hitting.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_04: But every single holiday weekend and most weekends of the summer, we're 100% capacity.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it makes you think, okay, well, how many more can we add?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_04: And still continue to just push push the limit on things there.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the same thing goes for the property we have up in Michigan with adding, we we bought seven acres actually behind it and are expanding there, and and it's very, very much the same thing where it's like, well, if we're if we're filling up, then let's let's keep keep things rocking and rolling.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's a soup, it's a really good and interesting question of you know, how do you keep the charm and soul of a property with that typically comes with a smaller unit count, which like in my opinion is you know, I as a guest prefer a smaller property, and I think there's a lot of benefits to that, or having a property where the units are spaced out or whatever.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then also from the from the ownership side, though, it's it's like a fairly different story in the sense that, you know, whether you have a property, it's the same property and it has 20 or 30 units, you know, if you go from 20 to 30 units, there's a lot of costs that will, you know, m only marginally increase, whereas potentially like the revenue could increase at a greater magnitude.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, whether it's like, hey, we might pay a manager the same 70 or 80K or whatever it is to manage 20 units as compared to 30 units, then you're starting to and and a big thing that it comes down to in the way people look at it in the professional investment world is like, is there enough margin for a management company to come in and take 6% of the revenue and then for the ownership to still make a healthy margin?
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then for you, where you're at, you know, now you have a handful, you have a cluster of properties.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the things that gets really expensive is you know accounting, bookkeeping, marketing and advertising, you know, lawyers' fees, all those things.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: But if you can have the same person or group that is doing that for you know three or four properties as opposed to just one, then it's becoming also you're getting a lot more economies of scale with those different people.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_04: And and I mean for us, like even like maintenance, right?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_04: So like a lot of my guys are that are on my team that I fix and flip a lot of houses.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot of my guys that are on my team fixing and flipping houses, they'll end up going and doing the repairs if something breaks at a location so that it's it's you know, you don't have to hire in somebody full-time to be your maintenance guy because they're not large enough properties to be able to support a position like that.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that you know, our our payroll company, our payroll company across every entity that I have is the same payroll company.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_04: They're actually our accountant too.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: They they do both, but they it makes things a lot simpler.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_04: And and to be honest, even this is another thing with AI and the way that is all shifting things in in this space, specifically, it's making a lot of things easier where you don't need as many people to run a really cool experience, and you just have to have a couple people that have the charm and have the love for what you're creating.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because really, you can have two, three, four people that are like that understand everything on how to market these things, how to create listings, how to set up a new unit, how to make things streamlined when it comes to getting your messages automated as much as possible and and things like that.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: So it makes it like that that cost of those people is the same with one, as it is with two, as it is with four, as it is with six.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: So it we're we're kind of starting to feel that as well.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: What what's the biggest area where you've been able to utilize AI really effectively with your properties, just running the business?
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I I love AI right now, and I'm hoping to continue to love AI.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: I have a bot on my phone that like it answers answers my calls for me too, and like send you a text message.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: So like my phone's send it like pops up with like what somebody has asked me and like while we've been on this call, even like if someone's calling and tech talking to my bot, this sends me a text message of like what they wanted and what they're what the the point of their calls, it's just like an answering service, basically.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_04: But that's something that we're actually trying to implement here as like an answering service for guests and implementing it and teaching it after hours of questions.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_04: Because ultimately, when you are a smaller organization and you have less people, if you have something that after hours is able to answer 99% of questions that guests are gonna have, like what's the Wi-Fi password?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_04: Well, if you scroll up two inches on that text that you just got, you're gonna see the Wi-Fi password.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: But we also have this beautiful bot that's going to tell you what the Wi-Fi password is when you ask it, and it's gonna be super kind.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's gonna be not mad that it just answered the phone at two in the morning to answer your and tell you that the Wi-Fi password is whatever it is, and and it's it's super cool.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like the they're always happy.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_04: But the that that's one thing that's really been helpful.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: I think also with like tracking things, it's been very helpful for us to like be able to track things faster, for us to be able to have like one or two people that is able to get the work done of like five people, especially being a small organization and creating content and creating I mean, a lot a lot of our things that we post out online, the captions are helped, they're assisted by AI in some way, shape, or form.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of the verbiages and things that are gonna go into a reel, all of the like the storyboard of the reel basically, is also helped and and captured by AI.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so it makes it so you not so much that you have to think less, but you kind of do have to think less and be more creative instead.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_04: So instead of thinking like, okay, words, words, words, you're thinking like, okay, how do I make this thing beautiful and then add the words in the right spots and the right times to make it really impactful?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_04: So we're we're trying to use AI a lot, and those are just a couple examples, but I think that I I was actually talking to a guy this weekend about how AI can be really cool in hospitality, but it also can take away the experience.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_04: So you have to be careful, I think, of like where you implement it.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_04: But I think after hours, having something like an AI bot that like can answer, can give you the answer to 90% of questions, and then if it doesn't know the answer, it automatically transfers you to somebody that's your after hours call.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_04: Not only does that create a better guest experience because it's fast, it's immediate, it also creates a better guest experience because they know that the person is 100% on, right?
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna 100% answer the phone.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_04: If someone's calling at two or three in the morning and there's a human that's answering the phone, there's a potential chance that that human doesn't answer the phone.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's just reality.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_04: There's human error, there's there's sometimes people don't wake up to a phone call.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_04: And that simple thing that could have been a perfect experience, then just kind of like dampered the guests' uh exp expectation, even though they had the answer already, maybe.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_04: But that simple answer could have just been taken care of.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_04: On top of that, what I think is more like uh beautiful than anything is your uh staff's experience.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: Your team is able to be more productive, so they're happier.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_04: They don't get the 3 a.m.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_04: call because 99% of the 3 a.m.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_04: calls were taken by something that was basically like your third-party bot.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_04: And instead of it going and rerouting to a call center, it's rerouting to something that's like just a fun, like happy, sophisticated, and it sounds so real.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like, have have you ever listened to some of these AI bots and how real they sound?
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a little bit, a little bit.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's some, yeah.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_02: There there's been some that are very good.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: Most drive me up the wall, but there have been some that are very good.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, is this a real person?
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_04: It it's crazy.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of people are using a lot of like wholesalers are using bots to like call call people and try to get them to sell their houses, which is crazy how many calls I get a day from a bot that's asking me to sell a house.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's crazy.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I love the idea, you know.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I I think your AI is a really powerful tool and it should be utilized in It's really smart for anyone in entrepreneurship to like really be trying to stay on top of it, of which I'm terrible.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like the 70-year-old geezer curmudgeon who just like hates change and like does not want to learn new things.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's me.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think which is why I asked someone like you this question so I can learn from someone who's actually putting effort in.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_04: I'm the same way though.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like I I hate changing things that should be a certain way, right?
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_04: But the thing that is cool about AI is it gives a mom and pop experience the ability or mom and pop location the ability to create a better experience and not so much like take away that mom and pop charm, but seem so much like it helps you be so much more professional.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like it it makes it like streamline a lot of things that you may not think about, even just being potentially a detriment for a guest.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like yeah, it's a Wi-Fi password, right?
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_04: But and and I'll keep going back to that, but at 2 a.m.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like someone once they probably wanted to watch a TV show and somehow the TV got logged out.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_04: And if they had that simple answer immediately, because you just created you know this bot that answers 90% of questions, and you spent maybe a week creating it, it it really can be something that continues to learn and can be implemented then into a next location.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_04: And when you then implement that next location, 90% of those questions are already answered, and then you change up wherever things are potentially at that property, and then you continue, continue on.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it gives you the ability as a smaller organization to really maximize your results, maximize your output, and be able to make a profit with 20 doors.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love it.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's huge.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually I used it recently.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was just writing up a consulting service agreement.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: I hate legal.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I just spent like 20 minutes chatting to a bot and asking it all the questions I would normally ask a lawyer.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you'd normally have to pay$500 an hour to ask a lawyer.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, and I had it draft up a consulting service agreement for me.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then once I had it, then I sent that to a law firm to refuse.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then they whatever, redlined it and sent me a bill for like$650.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, God damn it.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_02: But but you know, it probably would have been like$1,500 had I just gone to them and asked them to write the contract to begin with, rather than like having this base level thing, and then they just added their their two cents and you know made sure they got paid.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's it's crazy what it can do.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, if I like we added a a new rental service and we had our waiver, like our first draft of our waiver done with with using chat GPT, and then we sent it to the attorney.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_04: But it again, it saved saved us money because we already kind of sent him, hey, this is draft one.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_04: You just tell us, tell us what to update here.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_04: So again, it's another, yeah.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of crazy with you know certain things like like even like doctors or or lawyers or you know, some of these positions that require access to like a ton of knowledge and information.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, this AI is gonna be better than any human.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's crazy.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's pretty nuts.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: But on the other side, I also am just like chomping at the bit to open my own property and like just I want to revert so far away from technology.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want technology to be any part of the guest experience.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe on the back end, obviously, for for operations and accounting and payroll and all that.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, not.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, so this is my dream property.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is like a real immersive nature landscape hotel.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: And like the entire experience, like the slogan is just luxury, not for what you get, but for what you don't get.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like no phones, no screens, no cameras, no notifications, no one can reach you.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like that's cool.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_02: When you go in, you're checking in, you it's mandatory check-in of your phone, your laptop, your Apple Watch, all that stuff.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like a forced detox.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, like a chance to get away from that stuff.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: And other there's like a a tech room where you can go back and you can use your stuff if you need to do something or call your kids or whatever, but like it's not allowed on the premise.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_02: And really just yeah, trying to force people into cut people down when they go.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I love a metal detector.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the uh and the other thing that I think is really interesting is like with with bots and automation.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: So like obviously having a having a bot is better than not having a bot, or particularly if you're an owner operator and you're getting called at 3 a.m.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're also, you know, if if I'm like, hey, I want to operate a five-star experience that's charging$500 to$1,500 a night, you know, I would want to make sure, I mean, maybe there'd be like automated emails and things like that, but I would want a person to call a real person to be like a part of their experiences to call them, you know, three days before and be like, hey, you know, this is like whatever, you know, Joe, Joe Schmo at the front desk.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_02: We just wanted to check in and see if you had any questions about your upcoming stay and be like, oh, also want to tell you about a couple of events that are happening, or here's what the forecasted weather is.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what you know, maybe you'd want to keep in mind for your stay, and like have an actual human call and do that check-in point.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe someone calls after as well.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: Be like, hey, you know how we just want to see how your stay was.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: Also, you know, do you have any interest in booking another stay?
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: We could get you set up with something while you're on the phone and just try to have it be like that human-to-human experience.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not like, hey, go online and book, you know, do this automated thing online that requires no work from us, but like bringing human peace back in.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_04: And especially because even you know, even there with like telling them the weather and telling them like things that are going on on the property, it it's like a person then that they now are probably going to see on the property, and then they can like, oh, you're the guy that we talked to on the phone, and then you're that's also the guy that's checking them in.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_04: It makes it like a whole like connected point.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_04: But not only that, you can even like upsell uh experiences that that you're going to be having at the property.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: Massage or dinner or drink, sunset drinks for whatever.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's the long-term dream.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's I I like that.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_04: That's cool.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: Man, so so what's next?
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: What's next for Joe Lisa and his entrepreneurial pursuits?
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I I've got a couple different things going on right now.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_04: I have been trying to negotiate with this lady that is super kind and super fun on a the property that I was talking to you about earlier that's outside of West Yellowstone.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_04: That would be really cool if we can get that one to come to life.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_04: And then I just got a property in Punagorda, Florida under contract.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_04: That's a seven-unit.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_04: It used to be like a boutique hotel type property that flooded back in Helene, and then the people foreclosed because they they had lost their insurance beforehand.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_04: They like let their insurance lapse and they didn't have like any coverage on the whole thing, so they just walked away from the property and the bank took it back.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm buying it from the bank.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_04: So wow.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: How how do you find your your deals?
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: And on top of that, like what's what's your criteria where it's like green flag?
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, this is this is a Joe Lisa type opportunity, or like red flag.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, hey, I'm probably gonna steer away from this.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_04: So I I find deals all over the place.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: I I can tell.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_04: My girlfriend hates it, but I spend like most evening hours just scrolling the internet and many different platforms trying to find properties for sale.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, I don't know, it's it's I just get so much enjoyment from it and like thinking about ways that I could like turn that property from like whatever it was into whatever you know would fit like our brand and our our model.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so I mean, I I find them on Loopnet, on Crexy, I find them on a lot of Facebook groups that I'm in.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_04: And this is another thing that's cool.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_04: A guy that actually works for me, I've I had him help make a ChatGPT agent that scrubs all the Facebook groups that we're in for deals that fit our buy box.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_04: So we told ChatGPT this is what our buy box is, this is what we this is how many units we need, this is how many units we need to be capable of creating, and this is the locations, this is like the the texture and nature that we want around it, and so on and so forth, and it just pulls from all these Facebook groups.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_04: So you open up Facebook beside it and it pulls everything off of there.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_04: It's so cool.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_02: Whoa, I didn't know we were at that level.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_04: Dude, it's it's wild.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it logs into your Facebook and then it goes and and wow.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_02: Damn.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_04: You have to give it all that information.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like you're basically having them both like you're you have the Facebook window open and it's pulling everything from there at the same time.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_04: And you have to show it all the groups that it's that it's supposed to be pulling the information from, but it it learns.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's cool.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is this a GBT agent?
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_02: Whoa.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: That is crazy, actually.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: That has been a good thing.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_04: We had to do the paid, you have to do the paid version and it it works.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's it's crazy.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: The capabilities of that are are pretty immense, actually.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking because I work in the world of data and analytics, and you know, there's not a lot of data and analytics in the in the glamping world.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it would be like even just interesting to go into huge Facebook or real estate groups and have it have it pulling analytics on posts.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, yeah, that's super interesting.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm gonna have to look more into that.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and there there's a lot of properties too that sell like mom and pop properties that sell off market or that sell off of a Facebook group just because people a lot of times just don't want to deal with a realtor or they want to know who they're selling the property to because they spent their whole life like building up that thing, and they want to be able to be the one that talks to them.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_04: They don't want it to be going through a couple different agents, right?
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_04: And that's the the cool thing about that is it literally just pulls it all right off of Facebook groups.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great hack.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great hack for the listeners.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, what's what's some of the green flags, red flags when you're seeing stuff?
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_04: So because I like to stress properties, I almost would call that like a green flag because it allows me to come in and like do my thing and know that like my value add is safe.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like whatever we're putting into this property is probably going to come back.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_04: So even if maybe at the beginning we aren't hitting the numbers projections that we want to hit, because we're gonna be less capital in, we're going to be able to still be running a profitable ship.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I I would say on the flip side of that though, that can also be a red flag because there's some properties that have some distress to them have become like blight like targets of cities.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like, say city city government in an area has kind of targeted this property as hey, you know we we want to condemn this property and it's in really bad shape.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_04: Well, then you know, if if they try to condemn it before you get to it, then you're gonna have a lot more hoops to jump through to be able to make it come to life.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that is that's like that can be a very, very red flag because I mean, shoot, there's there's a lot of new things that like newer properties have to have that older properties get grandfathered in, especially with like sprinkler systems and and things that kind of get pricey.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of older properties don't have those things.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_04: But a lot of other things I guess I would say is that it has to be in nature because that's just like a beautiful places.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's just a if if it's not in nature, I don't really I don't identify with it, and I don't want to try to figure out how to create the nature too much because that that that's a very hard thing to create, and that's a very costly thing to create.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then I would say we're we're kind of take turning our buy box into it has to at least have the potential to be 20 units or more, and and I'm kind of starting to push like beyond that number because I do feel like kind of what you're saying is it's it takes the same amount of energy to do 20 as it does to do 40.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, not that 40, you know, 40 does cost more money, and 40 is you know more more rooms to fill, more heads and beds that you have to you know figure out, but I think then that makes it more more of like a worthwhile enjoyment because you're like, hey, well, like we got to figure this thing out, and because we have X number of doors more, we can create larger things, we could do group retreats, we could put on a breathwork workshop and have people coming from all over the place that want to come and experience this thing.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like we could we could do a lot of things around like once you hit that certain number.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think when you're when you're under that 20-ish number, it's hard to really be more than just a vacation rental.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_04: Now, obviously, don't get me wrong, there's some really cool experiential stays out there that are like single units or you know, maybe even you know, five to seven unit properties.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_04: But those five to seven unit properties that are really cool a lot of times have the expansion potential to be more than just five to seven units, but they did the five to seven units as a proof of concept and then built out a ton.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_04: But you can still have a beautiful experience on you know a single unit somewhere.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's just to be able to really build a business around it, not just be a cool property.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a that's becoming like a green green flag is has to has to hit that that number.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_04: Red flag, green flag on on city government is big, city and county government feeling them out beforehand.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_04: Don't just go into a property without any kind of you know conversation with the local government, because if you go in and they immediately are starting to tell you things about the property that they hate, they probably know a lot about the property and and want to, you know, maybe make your life hard to bring it back to life, right?
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_04: If they if you tell them like, hey, I want to bring life back into this property and so on and so forth, and they're like super supportive, and they're like, we've been wanting somebody to do that for years or so on, then it's like, okay, cool, this is a green flag.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_04: This is we we want to go and and work with these people because or we want to we want to go ahead with this deal because the the government wants to make sure that we that we actually bring this thing back to life.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_04: They're they're like supporters, they're fans, versus people that want to be a roadblock and say, hey, no, there's no way you're gonna bring this thing back to life with today's code or something like that.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'd love to learn a little bit more about that.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is any other any other tricks in particular dealing with governing bodies for how you feel out whether it's gonna be a smooth journey or a rough adversarial journey?
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_04: I would say really just like you kind of have to go in a little bit like code-like at the beginning when you're talking to like code enforcement or you're talking to like somebody in like the building department, and just kind of tell them like, hey, if someone was going to do this like in this area, like what would be some of the hoops that we had to jump through to make this come to life?
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, cool.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like you were thinking about doing XYZ, and um, we did see this property was available.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, being this is the location, is there anything that you you would just give me, like advice advise me on like the steps that we're gonna have to take to get this to come to life?
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't used to do that, obviously, at the beginning.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_04: I used to just kind of go straight hit the gas pedal and show up and start building shit.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_04: Now, now I do that at the beginning, and and it's it's cool because then they actually give you resources.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of times they're gonna start telling you, like if you call in and you're asking them questions and they're like, hey, you know, this is what you're gonna have to do to get this to be able to be able to be done.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_04: Or oh, hey, this is the the tourism board that you you're gonna want to talk to them because they're gonna help you make sure you're marketing things great, or here's the local chamber of commerce or something.
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_04: We'd love for you to get in contact with them and join the chamber of commerce.
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like, if they're like supportive like that, that it's like, okay, well, yeah, this is a town that I want to make sure that we're we're we're pushing things forward.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes there's there's places that that aren't so supportive, and you can you can feel that out pretty quickly with a couple phone calls.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_04: But I would also say that there have been times that city government's been on the fence with us on projects, and I've found that bringing in the media in some way, shape, or form and talking about how much the city government loves what you're doing kind of just like writes their story for them.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like I know that that's that sounds like uh an interesting way to do it, but one of the things that I I've done in the past when we were we had uh just like a small news outlet that was local up in Michigan come in and they were just like interviewing us about, I think it was like about a mural that we got added to a proper that we had added to the property and like the art and everything.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_04: And they asked like about something with like the the impact around the city and how the city had liked it.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I just like the city loves it, like they love everything that we're doing here, they're so glad that we're gonna be expanding.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_04: And then and then it was like, oh, well, they're already glad that we're gonna be expanding.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_04: So when we go to them and tell them that we're gonna be expanding, it's gonna make the conversation a little bit easier.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was tell them what to think.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it it became something that's hey, it's published here on on the as you know, something that when you when you're searching the area as a a a place to stay, it's a something that comes up, and now it's like, well, if then we post something later that says the city government reneged on everything that they said that they want.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_04: But no, in all seriousness, though, I do think that having media involved in some way, shape, or form does help because it helps put uh like put a perspective on like you as a human and like create you as a human, not as a huge corporation.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I also think that it helps basically like you be able to like genuinely explain your goals and people be able to see that like your goals may actually align with their goals, they just may not be able to see it from a piece of paper that's being submitted in a you know a building or zoning application.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know, if a local news outlet's running a story on on your property or your project and it's very wholesome and it ties back to the story or the community or how it's going to benefit things and and give back and and then the government puts the kibosh on it, it's kind of like that's it's a little harder for them to do, hopefully.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's I'm not saying it's like foolproof by any means, but I haven't had it not work yet.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, build build the plane in the air.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like fake it till you make it.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Can be good advice sometimes.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Joe, this has been hugely helpful and insightful.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love, I love, I just I love how it started, you know, in Michigan building the the two cabins or building the second cabin and then ending up in Grand Canyon with all your friends like sleeping on the floor of a hotel room and then and then fly driving 40 hours out to Joshua Tree where you didn't live.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and how it's come back to to Michigan.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I think so many good grains of wisdom for people who are you know bootstrapping and and getting into the space for the first time or scaling a business.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you very much.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any asks of the audience for yourself?
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, if you want to follow our journey, there's there's you can you can check us check out Soul Stay Lodging or check out Fireside Lodging, Fireside underscore lodging.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_04: But we're you know, all I ask is if you listen to this and and you feel like you know it's it's that final nudge that's telling you that like, hey, you could probably figure it out and and start that location that you're thinking about starting, is like, you know, listen to whatever that urge is and and take that first step because ultimately, you know, I had I had no idea what I was doing at the beginning, and now I um have been able to build almost a$13 million real estate portfolio in in like seven years.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's kind of fun to be able to look back.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that if you just think about that internally and take that first step and say, hey, any idiot can do it if that guy can do it, you know, you you can figure it out, build the parachute on the way down, and and have some fun in the process.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_04: Amazing.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_02: All right, thanks so much, Joe.
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Keep it up.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks, man.