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The Entrepreneurial Journey of a Full-Time Writer | Ghostwriter Barbara Richter · The Daily Writer

0:06
SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: As you probably know, on many of these Profitable Rider episodes, I bring on a guest who has expertise on a certain topic.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: They come here on the show and they help us figure out how to solve a specific problem or give us guidance or help us improve in some kind of way.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Now, other times I bring on a guest because they have an interesting story and I believe that we can learn some things and be deeply inspired by their journey as a writer.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: And today's episode definitely falls into that category because I know that you're going to be just as encouraged and inspired as I was by today's guest.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: So let me take a couple of minutes to tell you about her before we get into the conversation.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Barbara Richter is an accomplished author, public speaker, French to English translator, podcast host of the Writing for Immortality Show, and founder of DIY Book and N Inc.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Ghostwriting.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Barbara has had a multifaceted career, including roles as the managing editor for Literary Feature Syndicate, columnist for Fine Books and Collections magazine, and contributor to the Wall Street Journal, the New York Daily News, and other outlets.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: She launched DIY Book in 2023, which is a comprehensive solution designed to make book writing and publishing accessible and affordable for authors at all levels, from novices to seasoned professionals.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: On her podcast, Writing for Immortality, Barbara shares insider advice and strategies for writers at every stage of the writing process, featuring discussions with a wide array of guests from the industry.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Barbara is also the founder of N Inc.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Ghostwriting, one of the premier ghostwriting firms in the New York City area with clients from around the world, which delivers an assortment of writing services.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: From business books to memoirs and novels, the firm caters to a diverse clientele such as best-selling authors, NFL players, Fortune 500 CEOs, artists, musicians, doctors, entrepreneurs, and attorneys.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Barbara lives in Westchester, New York with her family and beloved Basset Hounds.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: You can connect with her via her websites, ininkghostwriting.com or diybook.us.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Please note that you can get a seven-day trial of the DIY Book Program, no code needed, whenever you sign up.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: So as you can see, Barbara's a pretty cool person with a wide array of experience and all kinds of different facets and business aspects of writing.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: And in today's conversation, Barbara and I talk about her journey as a professional writer, how she got started, the different roles that she's had, her experience in ghostwriting and podcasting, starting DIY book, and a lot more.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: I know I certainly did.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: So buckle up, you are in for a really, really fun ride.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Here's my conversation with the amazing Barbara Richter.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: So, Barbara, it's great to connect with you.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, I as I mentioned before I hit record.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: I have a huge soft spot for fellow ghostwriters because by the nature of what we do, it's kind of hidden.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: And I just I just always love to talk to people who are doing the same kinds of work as I do, but you're also doing a lot of other cool things.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: So we'll get into that.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: But first of all, welcome to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm honored to have you with us.
3:37
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Kent.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm honored to be here with you.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: So I was looking at the list of all the things that you are doing and have done over your career, and um, you've not only done a lot of really cool things, there's a huge variety to that.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: And I love that because you're the type of guest I love to have on uh the podcast where you've had a lot of things going on and you've had a lot of different experiences.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: So I definitely want to dive into that.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: I guess my first question is where did you first get the the inclination to get into writing as a profession versus something that was kind of a hobby or just something that you were interested in?
4:14
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: Writing is a profession.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: I feel like I might have been baptized in the the writing is a profession waters.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: Um my father is an author, he's written 10 books, he's working on an 11th, he's always been writing.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: We were always writing, and when we wrote at home, my my sister and I we'd send stories over to my dad and take a look.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: And he he was not afraid to use the red pencil on us at all.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: So we've been uh indoctrinated early that criticism is very helpful and editing is very helpful.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Um so I guess it's always kind of been in the background.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, when I was in college, I studied French lit.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: So that was a totally different type of writing.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: Um but I graduated and then I was actually a teacher for almost a decade, and that involved a lot of writing as well.
5:03
SPEAKER_02: But uh I made the leap from teaching to writing full time when I felt like I wanted to devote more time to it because I had all of these experiences reading widely, as I can see from your background, you have a ton of books, which is great.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: And it helps you to become a great writer, is when you read a lot.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: And I had read a lot, and I was thinking, I want to I want to share that with people.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: And I really started actually with um book reviews, book reviews and author interviews.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, um, I actually took over a write um a syndicate called Literary Feature Syndicate.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: It used to be back when newspapers were a thing.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, it was in 30 or 40 newspapers across the country when I took it over.
5:40
SPEAKER_02: The newspapers were cutting everything, and so we went completely online and um nonprofit, but we kept going and we were interviewing authors talking about their process, how they came to write their book or researching their book, and um also just reviewing great books out there for people.
5:57
SPEAKER_02: Now, uh, you know, everybody's a reviewer, so that that seems like you know, why still do that?
6:03
SPEAKER_02: But it's a great process to learn how to write, I think, concisely and to get to the point quickly.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: Um from there I moved into ghostwriting actually because I wanted to write a children's book.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: And uh I put together a book proposal, sent it out into the world, and um, as a lot of writers hear, we got a lot of rejection, rejection, rejection until one day I heard from an agent who said, you know, it's not bad.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: Nobody knows who you are.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: So instead of going and, you know, building my platform, things that people normally do, I said, Well, maybe I could help people who have a platform who are known and get their stories out there.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: And that's really how I got into ghostwriting.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: And that's what I've been doing now.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: Excuse me, I've been writing professionally for 20 years, but um, and in ghostwriting was established in the mid-20, I think 2016, but I've been writing ghostwriting professionally many years before that.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: That's really cool.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: So I've only been doing ghostwriting full-time for I think three years now.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, did it for a year or two.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, thanks.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: Um it's been sort of a baptism by fire.
7:09
unknown: Yeah.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: And like one of the weird things about ghostwriting, and I don't know how you how you feel about this, you know, like one of the things about ghostwriting is by definition what we do is hidden and it's in the background.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, there are associations for ghostwriters and professional organizations and things like that, but I I don't see a lot of involvement in those just because like because of what we do, we just you know, our our tendency is to sort of scurry off into the dark corner and do our thing and give it over to people.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Not always, but that's sort of the that it that's not too far from the truth.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: So um, I don't I don't know how you feel on about this, but um, I think a lot of us have kind of like stumbled into ghostwriting as something like you didn't grow up thinking I want to become a ghostwriter and and write for other people.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: It's just sort of something that we found ourselves doing uh one day.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like you wake up and go, Oh, I guess I'm doing this for a living now, at least for this period of my life.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: So that seems to be a common story with people.
8:06
SPEAKER_02: No, it's true.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I thought when I when I got that rejection letter from that agent, I was one, I was thrilled that he wrote back to me because so often they don't.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it does very true.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: And and then it's it just what he said for some reason clicked with me that that there were people out there who needed help.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it was like the educator in me who wanted to go and then help other people in this new way.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh once I got into it, it appealed to me.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think there's something, I think a good ghost, and and you know, you can correct me uh or you know, riff with me, but whatever, uh, but I think that um a ghost has to be an empathetic listener.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: Be willing to put your ego in your back pocket because it is not about you at all.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: I in fact, I just I did an episode on this recently, um, just a solo episode here on the show, which was all about that exact topic.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Topic is that I feel like half of the job of the ghostwriter is listening.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think that's the number one job is to listen.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: It's not just about good writing and all the other stuff.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: It's if you can't listen and put yourself in that person's shoes and empathize with with their story, even if you don't agree with them, or maybe you vehemently deny with or deny, maybe you vehemently, you know, are in the opposite end of the spectrum from something that they stand for or or whatever.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: Especially if you disagree with them.
9:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, as my company has grown, one of the questions I'll ask my writers is can't you comfortable writing on a uh something that you disagree with?
9:32
SPEAKER_02: And and a lot of them will say no.
9:34
SPEAKER_02: And then I say, Well, this may not be the best fit for you because you're going to nobody's gonna have the same viewpoint as you, and that's that's the beautiful thing about humanity.
9:42
SPEAKER_02: But also it is you you have to be willing to put you aside and you're here at the service of the of the client and you're trying to get their voice onto the printed page, which can be very hard.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: It's interesting that you talked about um listening is the most important thing.
9:58
SPEAKER_02: I agree because you're and and you you you probably understand this because you you ghost right professionally.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: When you're listening to somebody, you're listening for two things.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: You're listening obviously for the words and and the content, but you're also listening for how they may want to sound on the page.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes those things don't actually match.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: I've had clients who use certain language that they definitely don't want on the page, but the content, you know, there's a disconnect.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: So it it can take it can be very exhausting.
10:26
unknown: Yeah.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: It is, and it's funny because sometimes as a writer, when you're writing for somebody else, you you know you've done a good job with with kind of capturing their voice or you think that you have on the page, and then they come back with, well, this doesn't sound anything like me.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's like this weird I think when somebody else reads they read words that somebody else has written for them, it can be a very emotionally disconcerting process for them.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: And even though as a writer, you know maybe you've crafted something really well, but still yet it's not connecting with them somehow.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: And that can be a a challenge at times.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what your experience with that has been.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: It it is, and it's usually the first chapter.
11:09
SPEAKER_02: And what I'll usually say to clients, I'll say, I'm bringing you, I don't I don't like to give you know two or three or half the book to people.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's fair, especially because you want them to see it as you're going.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: In the first chapter, I'll say, You need to redline this, you need to go through.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: I think I've heard your voice, we've had some conversations, but um, don't be shy.
11:29
SPEAKER_02: If I've used a word in here that doesn't sound like you, I need to know now so we can correct it so that when we go forward, we're not gonna see this word again or this phrase again.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: And I I've had some clients who love that and they're great, and they're like, Yes, I'm gonna go.
11:42
SPEAKER_02: And others are, well, you're the expert, you know, you you write for a living.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Yeah, I write for a living, but I'm not you.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm just here to help you, and and I can't help you.
11:51
SPEAKER_02: I'm I don't live in your brain.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: So um, and that that is so important, and making sure that they're comfortable with that.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: Or because sometimes you know you don't want them to dislike what you're writing, and it's because it doesn't sound like them.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, but but obviously the more you do it, once I find that first chapter to just be so crucial, once you've got that written down, like I'll have notes for each clan.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: I'll say they they use this phrase or they, you know, whatever it is, and and that's just super, super helpful.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: And being, you know, talking to them about why you've put something in.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, when we talked about X, you know, you said you wanted to do Y.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, sometimes when there is that disconnect where you you think you have done what they you they wanted you to do and it's still not right, communication is just, you know, there's no sense in keeping it bottled up because then you won't get it right.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's that's really difficult because sometimes if somebody is, you know, they're hiring you as a writer because they're not a professional writer, they don't have the time or they don't have the skill or whatever.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: And it's hard for somebody to communicate what they like or don't like.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: I know sometimes because that maybe they have a sense of this just doesn't capture my voice, or this isn't what I thought it would be, or would I had that happen with a with a client just recently where I I mean I could go back to all of our recordings and say, you know, I've explained this like 80,000 times and this particular thing, but then then still there's something that's just not they're just not getting it or something.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Um I think that's why that communication piece is is so crucial.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: And I know all of us are are that way with different things in life.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, people can tell us something a hundred times and still like it's just not clicking with us, yeah.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: But maybe they'll communicate it in a different in a different way, and then we'll go, oh, now I understand.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: So I think that empathy and that patience is that's those are really important qualities, I think, in ghostwriting.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: They are and and and meeting your client where they're at.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: I've I've I know sometimes on onboarding uh conversations, clients will say, Well, what's your process?
13:52
SPEAKER_02: And and it's not my process.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, I I can do lots of different things, it's really got to accommodate the client.
13:59
SPEAKER_02: I had one client who refused to do track changes and did not like to do edits on the computer and would FedEx me edits.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, all right, that's fine.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Um okay, we'll we'll work with it.
14:13
SPEAKER_02: We'll work with it.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: So it's probably one of the most extreme examples, but you know, it does need and and I think that that helps to sort of demystify the writing process as well.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: Because I think a lot of people, and that's also why I launched this other company, is that people feel angst, like they want to write something on a topic or about themselves or whatever, but they're intimidated because they you see these great, magnificent classic writers and they've done things, and you have this perception that one, that it just arrives fully formed from your head, which is the furthest thing from the truth.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that there's this some magic process that you have to follow to get it right.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: And everybody's different, and everybody can find their way to write something um that makes them happy or has value.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: And if people, if the average person only understood the role that editors play in this process, too.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, anybody who has been who has worked with a good editor, there's lots and lots of really great editors out there.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: Like you you see how much they add to the process.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: So like right now, for example, I'm reading um In Cold Blood by Truman Capote.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've actually never read this book.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of ashamed to say I'm a professional writer, but I've never read this book.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: And so it's just one of he's one of the most phenomenal writers I've ever read.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, why haven't I read this years ago?
15:30
SPEAKER_00: But I wonder how much you know, when you come across great books, the if you're a professional writer, you you know that editors have a big role in that.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And any book that you see out there that's successful or popular or it's really good, there are really, really good editors behind that.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: So that is part of that collaboration too.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: And you know, when the average person sees that great book, they're like, oh, that writer, they're just so good, and that feels intimidating to that average person.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: But they don't usually understand the process of revisions and edits and editing that that goes into producing a really well-crafted book.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad that you have crafted something for the average person to just get started and overcome that paralysis that we so often have with writing.
16:12
SPEAKER_02: We do, I know, and it's excuse me.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: Editors are wonderful.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: All the different types of proof, proofreading, editing, copy it, all of them.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: Um, they make us sound so much better.
16:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, and even when you're editing your own work, um, because it can be done.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: It's not um, I know some people get intimidated when they're editing, but um if you're writing a book on your own and you're like bootstrapping your project, you can do it.
16:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, it does take a little bit of strategizing and a willingness to look at your work critically, which um what's that phrase, kill your babies or something?
16:46
SPEAKER_02: This is right.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: Nobody, no writer wants to do that.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: It's very hard to do.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, when an editor comes back and says it's great, but cut a thousand words, and you're like, but every word is precious.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, you're cursing the editor and you're saying, No, I don't want to do this.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: But when you do it and then you look back at it, you say, God, it's so much better.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: Um an editor, a good editor is always there at the service of making you as uh making your prose as sparkling as possible.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: I can't imagine what it's like to be a movie director.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Because you know, as as a writer, let's say you write um, you know, you write 10,000 words over what you need or 5,000 words or whatever.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: And you've got to cut stuff to get down.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Because so I don't know how what's your process, but but a lot of times I write a little bit more than what's necessary because you never really know what's gonna click, and it's better to it's easier for me to write over the limit a little bit rather than write under, because then you kind of have to fill in the cracks, and it's I would rather have too much than not enough, you know.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: But that's those are just words, and I can't imagine being a movie director, and you've gone to these locations and you've you've involved these hundreds of people, you know, in some movie production, and then you get into the cutting room and it's like, oh, I have to edit out 45 minutes of this movie.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: That must be absolutely excruciating because it's not just somebody sitting at a computer that has produced this, it's money and costumes and locations and all these kinds of different things.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: That must be really, really painful, I would imagine.
18:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm sure that's why they do the director's cut now.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is which is awesome.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: I love those.
18:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear about um how you think about the mindset of a professional writer.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: So you've you've done a uh as I mentioned at the beginning, you've done a variety of things and you've shared some of those with us.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh ghostwriting, and I want to hear more about DIY book in just a moment.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: I think that's really, really cool.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Um what kind of mindset do you feel like is necessary for somebody to have as a writer to be successful professionally?
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Whether you're writing your own books, whether you're ghostwriting, whatever kind of thing things it is that you're doing.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: Here's why I asked this is because a lot of the writers that I come in contact with tend to be I'm gonna say a little bit more on the passive side, the chill creative side, the introverted side.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: And I find that many writers who I talk to that want to build a viable business over the long term, they have great skills and they're very creative and a lot of them are very empathetic, but that that sort of entrepreneurial, can-do, very assertive spirit is really difficult for a lot of creative types.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering if you can speak to that and how what role that has played in your success as a writer.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: We'll get back to the conversation in just a moment, but first I want to take a second to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, The Word Wizard.
19:42
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19:49
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19:58
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20:12
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20:19
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20:23
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20:28
SPEAKER_00: Now back to the conversation.
20:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I think I I agree with you.
20:32
SPEAKER_02: I think I think there is this um perception of writers as they're the creative types, they can be a little bohemian and just kind of floy with the wind.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: And that's right, that is part of it.
20:42
SPEAKER_02: It is, you know, writing is is a creative process, but it's also a job.
20:47
SPEAKER_02: Um and and I think that uh uh writers, especially if like you're an English major or your French major, because I know like when I was in college, like I didn't take any business classes, it all kind of came afterwards, which you know, looking back, maybe I I could have benefited from one or two and not learned it as an adult.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: Um but and especially for for professional writers, maybe if you're a freelance writer, uh I think one thing that's very important is to know your worth as a writer.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: And um I know I I have it's been a while since I've had to go out and like pitch a story.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I remember back in the old days, you know, we'll we'll pay you an exposure.
21:21
SPEAKER_02: And that just used to wrankle me.
21:23
SPEAKER_02: Like uh I can't feed my kid on exposure.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: Like I need something.
21:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think a lot of writers are willing to do that and and to make that bargain because then they say, Well, I can I need to build my clips, I need to grow my portfolio, so I'll I'll do these things.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: And it's a it's a balance.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll say that.
21:40
SPEAKER_02: Like if you know, you Vanity Fair came to you and said, We want to publish something by you, but we're only going to pay you five bucks, but you'll get exposure, you know, that that is a trade off.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, so it I think it depends.
21:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's one thing I would say also uh uh writers would do well to be comfortable with the concept of rejection.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: Um Just in in all forms.
22:01
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you you send a chapter, if you're if you're ghostwriting something, you send a chapter to a client and they absolutely hate it.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: It's not an attack on you.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: It's it's take what they're saying and make it better or make it what the client wants.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes you know, we're saying, Oh, but it's it's great like this.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: You don't understand.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: And why are you fighting your client?
22:19
SPEAKER_02: This is what your client wants, and you can you can talk.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: That's hard.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: That's really hard.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: It's very hard.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: And and um it's a it's a good one to learn, I think, because it's it's not a personal, it shouldn't be a personal attack, you know.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think that that can be hard for some writers to to grapple with.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that that's important for a writer to cultivate in terms of mindset, it's just openness and like comfort with maybe uncomfortable situations.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm sure that's maybe been your experience as well.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I yeah, for sure.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Especially that like I'm a guy who hates conflict.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, I grew up in a family where I never once saw my parents argue.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Now they've been they they've also they were divorced when I was a senior in college.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, I'm sure there was underlying things there and whatnot.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: But uh I just grew up in a family where nobody raised their voice.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: We were all just chill and calm, and that's just kind of my personality.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: So anytime that that I have conflict with anybody, I really, really hate it.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Because I just like everybody to get along and be happy.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, however, if you if you're always gonna run away from any sort of conflict or anything like that, then it's gonna be hard to have a business of any kind, not even just writing, uh just it's gonna be hard for you to function in life and do anything meaningful if you can't stand conflict uh of any kind or criticism or something.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: So Especially in writing, right.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, if you've written something, or at least in my I can only obviously speak to my experience, so that's that's what I'll do.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, if we're presenting a chapter to a client and they they are concerned or they're they're displeased with it.
23:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you can defend what you've written, you can defend it.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: I did this because this is what we talked about and this is what was on the page.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: And you know, that doesn't that's not running away from it, that's just saying what it is.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: And if the client says, Well, no, that's really not what I want, well, then okay, let's talk about it.
24:11
SPEAKER_02: And and that's totally totally that's you know, and then you don't have to grovel, you know, so you know, because that's not, you know, uh, I mean, you didn't do anything wrong.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: Of course, if you did do something wrong, that's totally different.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: But I'm I'm I'm assuming, you know, you were listening to your client and you were putting together something and there was a miscommunication or a misunderstanding, and that's part of the writing process.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, sometimes when I'm writing something under my own byline, I'll write something and I'll look at it.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't know about you, but I find if I can take a break, even if it's like a 10-minute break and just come back with fresh eyes, I see things I didn't see and I say, Oh my god, why did I write that?
24:46
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: You have to hold this stuff loosely, and that's that's hard if you're wired as a as an artist or a creative person because our our creative work is so tied to our identity so many times.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like, how many uh so I'll I'll be 50 in three months.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm 49 right now, and you know, how many 49-year-olds are still walking around with their high school music teacher's voice in their head, and you're not good enough, or one day you'll be you know, it's like we carry these things around from childhood um that uh a lot of creative people do that, where you're just like how many people are still trying to prove stuff to their high school classmates 30 years after they've graduated?
25:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just like this crazy stuff that those of us who are wired as as artists that we just we have a hard time getting past sometimes.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: And but man, it's gonna be really hard to have a ghostwriting business if you're really overly sensitive to that kind of stuff.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: It is.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: I would think it is.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Um it's funny when you talk about, you know, who are you proving yourself to and your your high school English teachers?
25:48
SPEAKER_02: When I used to teach, I used to bring in a binder from when I was an English student, and I had kept um, I just because I keep things, I'm sure the same way, I just keep uh for better or worse, but I had a file of papers that I had written in like 11th or 12th grade.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: And I had one English teacher, and he was so tough, it was incredibly tough, but he was great.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: And he was, I wouldn't say vicious, but he would he would edit.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: He had his red pencil and he would edit things and he would fold them and such.
26:16
SPEAKER_02: He had a whole process.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: And I brought him in to show these students.
26:19
SPEAKER_02: I said, look, because we were working on a writing assignment.
26:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it was in French, but I I was using this as an example in English, and I said, Look, I want you to look at these essays, and I want you to see what this teacher did to my work, and I want you to see the steps because what he would do, it wasn't just one essay.
26:36
SPEAKER_02: We would we would have a topic, we would write the essay, he would edit it, give it back.
26:40
SPEAKER_02: We would do another draft.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I we would go through three drafts for like a you know, 1500-word essay, not a big essay, but a lot of time.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, and we would see the progression, and and the kids found that helpful.
26:54
SPEAKER_02: It also helped them get over this feeling of like, this is an attack on me.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: And that was kind of my hope as well.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: That beyond French, like if they ever spoke French, I grade.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: But if they didn't, I was hoping what they would take away from it is that um when people are are helping you edit your work, it's really not an attack, it's it's an attempt to help you be the clearest, uh, most polished version of yourself.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: And other, I mean, almost every other industry has that same thing, but people don't seem to be bothered by it, you know.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: If you're like an electrician um and somebody else comes along and checks out your work and finds out something needs to be corrected or something.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't imagine an electrician would be like, oh, you have now like defiled my creative work.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: It's so precious to me.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: It's just like, hey, we're just trying to make people's lives better.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Don't you want to, don't you want to put your best foot forward?
27:44
SPEAKER_00: But for some reason, writers are like a whole different everything is so precious to us and all this jazz.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: You know what I think it is?
27:51
SPEAKER_02: I think it's because we all speak the, you know, I'm assuming English, right?
27:55
SPEAKER_02: We're all speak, we all speak the same language that we're writing in.
27:58
SPEAKER_02: So we all think we have this like sort of shared experience, I think.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that might have something to do with it, that we become more sensitive about it.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: I I'm not sure.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: I I wish I had some good advice to someone to help them be less sensitive.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, I I think maybe it just takes dealing with a bunch of things that are difficult and you kind of become desensitized to it and and you just accept it as part of the gig and that's a mindset shift for sure.
28:25
SPEAKER_02: If you're not the type of person who takes criticism level and you take it personally, I would imagine that that can be you know hard to hard to overcome.
28:34
SPEAKER_02: Um but um you know, writers who I think tend to continue in this industry have had the the experience, for better or worse, of getting rejections and having criticism and hearing all of those things, and it just kind of builds this callous.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, that's that's a I think that's a good thing.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do too, because you're not gonna be persistent otherwise, and you're just gonna you're just gonna be crushed at every little correction that somebody has or suggestion or critique or whatever, and that's not good.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: No, and it's so tough out there right now for writers, for content writers, with we've got AI, but it's it's tough, you know.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: Places, news uh vice, I think, is closing, right?
29:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, all these um it's it's creepy.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is so I'm curious about so I I want to get into DIY book here in just a moment, uh, because I think what you're doing with that is really fascinating.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious your perspective as a ghostwriter about the whole AI thing.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: I personally don't feel threatened by AI in the least as a ghostwriter, but I'm I'm curious how you feel about that because I'm sure people ask you about that as well.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: They do.
29:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, funny, um, I used to get phone calls.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, so before 2023, I used to get phone calls um from panicked students who would call, they'd call it weird hours of the day.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: I have a paper due, and can you help me?
29:57
SPEAKER_02: And no, I can't help you.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Go away.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: Go the time you're spending finding a ghostwriter, like you can go write something.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: And then uh Chat GPT came out and look, phone calls stopped immediately.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, well, at least I'm not getting the phone calls anymore.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: But teachers, I feel, you know, I feel for you.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, right.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: I I can't imagine what that's like to have to have that extra layer of like, did this kid use AI?
30:22
SPEAKER_02: Are we using AI in our curriculum?
30:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's a whole nother topic.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, but for I think for better for me, probably for worse for teachers, those phone calls stopped and those those emails stopped.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't feel threatened by AI.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think AI is probably a tool that will be used um by writers and in ways that can help, you know, if you're putting together an outline.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: Um I think the more interesting story with AI is you know how it was trained and those sorts of things.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Um but um I lost my train of thought.
31:01
SPEAKER_02: We were talking about AI and yeah.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Do you feel threatened by it in your ghostwriting business?
31:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I don't.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: And I think with DIY book, actually, so um it which is a writing assistance program online, um, I actually have an article up on the website that talks about how you can use AI, how you actually can use Chat GPT to write your story.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: One thing with ChatGPT, obviously, and I know you know this, when you say, you know, I'm gonna type in my name and write a story about me.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: And Chat GPT can't do that if you're not like already on the internet.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: And even if it does and it turns comes back to you, it could be totally wrong.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, or parts of it could be wrong.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: So then it's not gonna be able to do that kind of work for you.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, it may be able to help you set a scene, uh, but it's also, you know, I've done some experiments with it.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna be able to necessarily tell you the weather on a particular day at a particular place.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: For I mean, it has the access to that information, but sometimes it's not gonna give it to you.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: So you're still gonna have to go and find that for yourself.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, but if you're looking for inspiration uh in terms of uh style, I think you can play around with it and you might find something that works for you.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: I know sometimes if you type in a prompt like, I want to write in the style of um Ernest Hemingway, it will try that.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how successful it is.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: I haven't done that.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: Um I think maybe uh people who do that maybe I'm not sure if they know.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: Have they read uh Ernest Hemingway and they know what he sounds like on paper?
32:35
SPEAKER_02: And do they know what they're getting?
32:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, so there's there's that other thing as well.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: And there's also uh a very chat GPT style.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've noticed this when I when I see stuff come in and it's it's clear to me that this is this is a bot that wrote it's pretty obvious.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty obvious.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: It's too, I'm not sure what the word is.
32:55
SPEAKER_00: It's like really it's it sounds like LinkedIn post, nothing against LinkedIn.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: No, and it's good for LinkedIn.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: It's like very corporate, you know.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: It's but it's perfect for LinkedIn though.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah that's you're trying to get them real quick.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: You want to do the who, what, when, where, why, and done.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's perfect, and it's an efficiency.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, it does save time, and that is important.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, but in terms of of actually writing somebody's life story, I don't know how it's going to be able to replace that because it can't, you know, until it like actually gets in your brain and can read all your memories, it's not gonna be able to do that.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: And chat GPT can't look at somebody's, you know, in terms of ghost writing, it can't really look at at the totality of somebody's life and business and understand how to position a book correctly.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it can craft content based on what's already out there, sure.
33:43
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean, maybe at some point you'll be able to feed AI podcast or articles or st or interviews or whatever, and it'll somehow be able to sort through all that stuff and produce something coherent.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't see that happening anytime soon, but who knows?
33:58
SPEAKER_00: But but it can't really understand the humanity behind somebody's business and their story, and then understand how that then connects to the broader marketplace.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: That's that's really one of the big values I feel like that we provide as ghostwriters is hey, I can write a great book for you, but the worst mistake that we can make as a ghostwriter is writing the wrong book for somebody.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: They've spent X number of dollars on a book and it's like, oh, you have a great book, but this isn't really going to help you accomplish your goals.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you're writing a terrible.
34:27
unknown: Right.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: It's it doesn't, and and you know, I would imagine, you know, if you type, if you're writing a business book and you're going to ChatGPT and you're saying, I'm writing about, you know, my entrepreneurial journey, and this is what I want the readers to achieve at the end.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: The the bot may take a route.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: It may not be the route that makes sense for you.
34:45
SPEAKER_02: It's just going, like you said, it's just going to be gathering from um the internet what is already out there and then apply it to you.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: So it that's kind of a crapshoot, I guess.
34:57
unknown: Yeah.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: As you point out.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Do you really want to leave something to a crapshoot?
35:00
SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: But ChatGPT can also give you some great sparks of ideas and suggestions and all kinds of things you wouldn't have thought of otherwise.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: So it's I look at it at it as kind of like the world's best research assistant.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can um if you type in a prompt and it spits something back, it's sometimes it's comfortable.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: I know for me when I'm writing the the when I get, I guess if I get nervous or I just something I dislike, you know, at this point I don't get nervous.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: I just I don't like it.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't like looking at a blank page.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: Uh it drives me nuts.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: It and I um so if Chat GPT just having some kind of outline there helps, you know, awesome.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: For me, I've I old fashioned.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll write it out for whatever reason.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: The act of putting a pencil in my hand and writing, it makes my brain turn on.
35:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, and even if none of that makes it into you know a draft or a final draft, it's there's something about that that just turns on the spark.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: It's interesting.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: I do want to ask about a DIY book.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm fascinated with what you're doing with this.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: Um would you call it a program?
36:07
SPEAKER_00: Is that the right is that the right program slash product slash subscription?
36:11
SPEAKER_00: What's the right terminology there?
36:13
SPEAKER_02: It's a it's an online platform.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: It is a it's a yeah, it's a membership program.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it it we I created it um because I for you know every client I would get with any ink for ghostwriting, it would probably turn away a dozen.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Um not because I didn't want to do their project, but because they couldn't afford quality ghostwriting.
36:35
SPEAKER_02: And you've probably seen this as well.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Um was all the time.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's unfortunate um because I wanted to help them.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: And uh some of these clients are potential clients that you've probably seen these two, these like um fly by night ghostwriting companies, and they're all based in some P.O.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: box on in Los Angeles, but they're all really based in the Philippines, and they all say they've written, you know, the cat in the hat and like the Gettysburg Address, and and they'll write your book for 500 bucks, and people will spend 500 bucks and they get you know, either plagiarized junk or you know, gibberish.
37:10
SPEAKER_02: And if they go to try and go after these people, they just fold and they they pop up again.
37:16
SPEAKER_02: And and they exist because they get people, because people want to write their stories, but they don't have the funds to do it.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:22
SPEAKER_02: So I said, Well, how can I help people, you know, but in a way that's affordable?
37:29
SPEAKER_02: So I took what I thought were the ghost writing principles, you know, techniques, tools, prompts.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: Like if I had a client sitting in front of me, what are the questions I'm gonna ask that person?
37:41
SPEAKER_02: And I put those into this actually this platform, and it's uh patent pending technology, which I'm pretty excited about.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: And so when people sign up, they when they get into their portal, they get to choose the kind of genre that they want to uh focus on.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: We have we have two right now.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: We have life story and we have business books.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: So for business book, that's a whole different, it's actually a very discrete set of steps that um the um author can follow up.
38:05
SPEAKER_02: Now, I will caveat that and say nobody has to write a book following the prompts that we give them, of course.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: They can go in there and we have a writing platform for them, a secure platform where they can type their book.
38:16
SPEAKER_02: And if they know what they want to write and they don't want to use our prompts, they don't have to.
38:20
SPEAKER_02: They're just suggestions.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, however, for the business books, and I'm sure if you've written a couple of business books, you know that there is a certain formula to putting a book together, and then you kind of put the pieces together and you get a particular book.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: For life story, uh, authors can go in and if they decide they want to write about their military career, or they want to write about food, or they want to write about their faith journey or sports, they can choose those categories and each week they'll receive a particular prompt based on that category.
38:49
SPEAKER_02: And they go into their account and they can type in their response.
38:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, we pre-populate the chapter for them.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: Of course, they can change it, they can add their pictures, all those sorts of things.
38:59
SPEAKER_02: And along the way, um we have on the website, we have tips.
39:04
SPEAKER_02: I've we post articles on, you know, how do you overcome writer's block, what is tone?
39:08
SPEAKER_02: Because so many people you say, well, what's your what's your voice?
39:11
SPEAKER_02: And you probably get this with clients.
39:12
SPEAKER_02: And then they say, Well, I don't know what my voice is.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: Actually, I don't like the sound of my voice.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, no, no, no, that's not what I'm talking about.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: Talking about how you want to sound.
39:20
SPEAKER_02: Uh, do you want to sound, do you want to be funny?
39:22
SPEAKER_02: Do you want to be serious?
39:22
SPEAKER_02: You know, those sorts of things.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I really tried to give the author as many tools as possible to to put a book together that they could be proud of.
39:33
SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the process, um, you know, with a lot of self-publishers, the the process of taking the book from uh manuscript to printed is it's it's another process in itself.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: So we've also taken on that process.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: And um clients can just they can pick their cover color, they can pick their uh photograph, and then we take care of the printing for them.
39:54
SPEAKER_02: They decide if they want hardcover, soft cover, black and white, that sort of thing.
39:58
SPEAKER_02: And they don't have to worry about formatting or anything like that.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: We do that for them.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: And then they have a book.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: And um, so that that's that's pretty exciting to be able to give that to people and and all they really have to worry about is getting into the account, which is not hard, and typing their story.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: And how what are what's the the word count or the the page length um either one for books typically that go through your DIY book process?
40:23
SPEAKER_02: You mean like when clients come in and when they uh Yeah, like the like the finished product.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Is it like a are they shorter books?
40:30
SPEAKER_00: Are they longer books?
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Can they kind of pick what that is or how does that work?
40:34
SPEAKER_02: So the the minimum uh just for printing purposes is 40 pages.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: So um, and if if a customer uh writer has uh a shorter book than that, they're gonna get a couple extra pages because I we just can't print a book shorter than 40 pages with the way the folds are.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, but they can, you know, the average length has been like you know, it's a six by nine, so maybe like 130 pages.
40:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a solid book.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and they have pictures and table of contents, and um, but if they can they can go on, you know.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: We do have a caveat in there.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: If you go beyond like I think 500 pages, contact us, and but that hasn't happened yet.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: That that's that's probably too long.
41:17
SPEAKER_02: You never know.
41:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean Barbara Street's books, like what, like 900 pages or something?
41:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I saw that.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure she has an interesting life.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no index.
41:31
SPEAKER_02: That's there's no index in that book.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: That's that's absolutely crazy.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean that that seems like that was written for like the real hardcore fans.
41:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it was the audio book.
41:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she has, and she and she's got a lot to say.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, a lot of books have been written about Elvis and many, many other people, so um probably there's room for a lot more about Barbara Stress, and she's done a lot of different stuff over her career.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she has.
41:55
SPEAKER_02: She has.
41:56
SPEAKER_02: My mother-in-law is listening to the book right now, it's a 48-hour audiobook.
42:00
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: And does she read it herself, Barbara?
42:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh yeah.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's a lot.
42:07
SPEAKER_02: That's a lot.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot to read.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: I've never gone into a studio and recorded my own audiobooks.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: I've just always done it from here at home.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: So I can't even imagine how exhausting that is doing.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just to get one hour, you know, with the producer and all the different takes of stuff.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: That that just has to be so grueling, I would imagine.
42:25
SPEAKER_02: She's a pro.
42:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure she did just fine.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure she did.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's probably nothing compared to a lot of stuff she's done.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: So um, Barbara, this has been really, really fun.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: Um you have inspired me on my entrepreneurial journey as a ghostwriter, as an author, as a podcaster.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: Um you're doing all the things and and juggling juggling them really well.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just kind of an awe of what you're doing.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: So thanks for being a guest today.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast.
42:52
SPEAKER_02: This has been so much fun.
42:53
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me.
42:54
SPEAKER_02: This has been great.
42:55
SPEAKER_02: I hope I hope your listeners got something uh useful out of it.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: Well, I got a lot of useful things out of it.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm sure that they will have as well.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: Now I know that um people can sign up to get a free seven-day trial of your DIY book program uh without a code.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: And can you tell us more about where they can go to do that and also where they can go to find out about your ghostwriting services, podcasts, um, all the cool things that you're doing?
43:20
SPEAKER_02: All the places.
43:21
SPEAKER_02: All the places.
43:22
SPEAKER_02: Um so if they're interested in DIY book, they can just go to diybook.us.
43:28
SPEAKER_02: And if they sign up for a life story or a business book account, it's an automatic seven-day free trial.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: So uh, you know, you have nothing to lose.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: Come try and write your story.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: We'll be there to help you out if you need.
43:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, ghostwriting, I'm over at Ink Ghostwriting.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: And uh also on all the socials, in Inc.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: Ghostwriting.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm at DIY Book HQ on Instagram and Facebook.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: And I have also a podcast where we talk about the writing process called Writing for Immortality.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: And that is everywhere you can find podcasts, and we talk about things like writer's block and uh tone and things like that.
44:07
SPEAKER_02: So we have a lot of fun.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: That is a great title, by the way.
44:11
SPEAKER_02: It's not original to me.
44:12
SPEAKER_02: It was a book about romantic authors and who were remembered and who weren't.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: It's by H.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: J.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: Jackson.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: It was a great book.
44:19
SPEAKER_02: So I thank you.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, if and I've I've thought about this before, you know, in a hundred years.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I'll be dead and gone, you know.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Way to end a podcast, Kent, on a really positive note.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, everybody listening will probably not be around in our current form in a hundred years from now.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: Our Facebook posts probably who knows where there will be or what will what the world will look like in a hundred years tech tech wise.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: But we can pretty much guarantee that print books that we create today have a really good chance of still being around somewhere in somebody's basement or their bookshelf in a hundred years.
44:56
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: If you want to make a difference, and in the best way to become as immortal as you possibly can as a human is to have a print book out there, really.
45:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and for your family as well.
45:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh, I know I know the podcast is wrapping up, but I know that people who have phones full of photographs that they can't access because they don't have the phone anymore.
45:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, when you print them out and you have them for your family, that's a that's a gift.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: And it's more likely to last rather than trying to figure out how to get into somebody's computer.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, Barbara, thanks again.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: This has been a blast.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, appreciate you taking time to be a guest on the Profitable Hyder Cup podcast.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: Looking forward to connecting further and seeing all the cool things that you're going to be doing from here on out.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: So thank you again.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Kent.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, as you can see from this conversation, Barbara has a wealth of experience and wisdom that she shared with us here on this episode.
45:46
SPEAKER_00: I had an absolute blast talking with her.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: And I want to thank Barbara for taking the time to be a guest on my show.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: I was also a guest on her show.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: So make sure and go check out her podcast called Writing for Immortality.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: There's a link in the show notes.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: It's a really, really cool show, and Barbara's really cool.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: You're going to love her show, so let's make sure and support it.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, as always, thanks for tuning in to this episode and to this podcast.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why I say tuning in.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: This isn't like it's 1947 where we've got to like tune into radio stations, but be that as it may, you know, I'm a kid from the 70s and 80s.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: What can I say?
46:19
SPEAKER_00: So as always, I really appreciate you listening, and I will see you next time.