Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 1-3) (5/18/26)

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Mega Edition: Bill Barr And The Epstein Related Deposition Given To Congress (Part 1-3) (5/18/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

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Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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Epstein Chronicles. So we have the Bill Barr transcript from
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his deposition that he gave to the committee when he
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sat down for a talk a few weeks ago. So
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in this episode, we're going to begin taking a look
0:18
at that transcript and at what Bill Barr had to
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say during this interrogation, if you want to call it that.
0:26
So obviously Bill Barr is going to be the one
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answering the questions, and we have a lot of redactions here,
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so if we don't have a name for the person
0:34
asking the question, I'll say redacted, and then I'll ask
0:37
the question, and then obviously the answers are from Bill
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Darth Barr, unless, of course, something changes, and if it does,
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I'll make sure I let you know as we're going
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through this. All right, So we're going to start with
0:51
the examination and we're going to bypass them, swearing them
0:54
in by redacted. So the person asking the questions is
0:59
redact question. Very briefly, we want to go through your
1:03
background and the only two experiences that I think are
1:06
relevant today. Where did you attend undergrad in what year
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did you graduate? Barr graduated Columbia College in seventy one.
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I got my master's from Columbia in seventy three, went
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to law school at GW here in Washington at night,
1:20
and graduated in nineteen seventy seven. Question, thank you. Answer?
1:25
During that time I worked at CIA. Question and then
1:29
President HW Bush appointed you to be United States Attorney
1:32
General from ninety one to ninety three? Is that correct? Barr? Yes?
1:37
I was in the department at the start of his
1:39
administration and he ultimately appointed me attorney general. Question and
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then President Trump appointed you attorney general in February of
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twenty nineteen, and then you left in December of twenty
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twenty correct answer, right, I was confirmed in February of
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twenty nineteen. Question were you acting prior to your confirmation? Answer?
2:00
No question. Moving on to the topic at hand, just
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some preliminary questions. Have you ever met mister Epstein? Answer?
2:08
Have I? What? Question? Have you ever met Jeffrey Epstein? Barr?
2:14
Not to my knowledge. Question I'll pause for a minute,
2:17
Miss Crockett, do you mind identifying yourself for the record?
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And now we got Jasmin Crockett asking questions? Yes, Jasmin Crockett,
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Texas thirty question and then have you ever met Miss
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Glenn Maxwell? Answer not to my knowledge. Question in general,
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is the Attorney General aware of every federal criminal investigation
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that's happening at any given point? Answer no. Question What
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sort of cases would the Attorney General be made aware of? Answer? Well,
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generally things would percolate. Generally, people would report into the
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Deputy Attorney General every morning. I would have a staff
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meeting where the deputy participated and his principal staff and
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my own staff, and matters that had come that required
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my attention would come through that system. Sometimes offices would
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directly communicate with me, especially when there was a conflict,
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but matters would either come to my attention if there
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was a disagreement within the department or if it was
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a matter of national importance. Question did jur your staff
3:19
closely monitor high profile cases within the United States? Answer?
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I think my staff monitored high profile cases and brought
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things to my attention that they felt I should be
3:29
aware of. Question and then for pretty much the remainder
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of the deposition will focus on your time as Attorney
3:37
General in the first Trump administration. Answer sure, question do
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you have any conversations about Epstein case while you are
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attorney general. Answer by bar any conversations. Question Yeah, just
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broadly answer yes. Question do you recall when the first
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one was Answer? I became at some point, and this
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was six years ago, but I became aware that the
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Southern District was conducting an investigation. I think it was
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a little bit before his arrest, but I can't be
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sure that it could have been around the time of
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his arrest, but I was aware that they were conducting
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an investigation. Now, I don't recall specific discussion surrounding that.
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I could tell you what my understanding of what they
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were investigating, but I don't remember particular conversations. It's just
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my impression of what came up at the time. Question.
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Can you describe your general understanding of what they were investigating? Answer? So,
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my understanding was that they were investigating whether he committed
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trafficking offenses, particularly focusing on his exploitation of young women,
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and they were trying to make the case against them.
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And in that context, they were also looking at whether
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any individuals were accomplices or complicit in that activity, either
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as facilitators. As you know, they ultimately went after and
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convicted Glenn Maxwell, and I think they were and I
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know they were all also looking at whether there was
5:01
evidence to charge anyone with participating in trafficking by having
5:05
their involvement with the traffic victims. Question, To the best
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that you can, can you describe the difference between what
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participating in the trafficking would be and what facilitating that
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trafficking would be? Answer? Having well, the latter, I mean,
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I'm sorry, participation as would be having illicit sex with
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a miner a traffic miner question and facilitating answer or
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anyone who was trafficking question? Yeah, answer by bar. But
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certainly what the focus was on was illicit sexual activity
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with a miner. Question? And then what would facilitating be
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of I believe miss Maxwell was? And to that bar
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cuts off the person asking the question. Answer helping conscript
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young girls into Epstein's network of young girls who primarily
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were involved in giving the massages and engaged in sexual
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activity with them. Question. And then you say, you don't
6:00
correct me if I'm wrong. Don't really recall more than
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the general conversations at that point in time, answer right, question,
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do you recall who those conversations were with or kind
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of surrounding the arrest of Epstein in twenty nineteen. Answer, yeah,
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it was either before it could have been before the arrest,
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but certainly by the time of the arrest I was
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aware of it, and it would have been It would
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have been the people who normally attend my meeting. It
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could have been a conversation with the US attorney, but
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I don't remember if it was. Question do you recall
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who normally attended those meetings? You might have said earlier,
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but answer it would have been the deputy and the
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deputy's principal associate, as well as my chief of staff
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and sometimes additional members of the staff. And it would
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also include from time to time, you know, other people,
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other members of the staff who were directly concerned with
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the matter. Question do you recall any conversations with the
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FBI at that point in time, still sticking to surrounding
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his arrest? Answer no, question, And then you said you
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might have included the US attorney. Are you referring to
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the US attorney for the Southern District of New York
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Answer Jeff Berman. Yes. Answer do you recall any conversations
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with anyone in the Southern District of Florida that time? Answer?
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I don't recall. Question and then do you recall any
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conversations with mister alex Acosta at that time. Answer not
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not about this case. Question not about Epstein. Answer not
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about Epstein. Question Okay, he obviously served in the administration
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bar yes, question with you so in other cases Answer yes,
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question similar questions, different timeframe and different subject form. Miss Maxwell.
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Do you recall any conversations about Miss Maxwell or the
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Maxwell case when you were Attorney General? Answer yes, I
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can't pinpoint particular discussions. I think once he committed suicide,
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you know, the office. I remember being told and agreeing
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that the office had to go full boar ahead on
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finding other crimes that may have been committed, including looking
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for people who are accomplices in some way or complicit
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in some way. And her name came up in that
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context obviously as a prime person. Question and don't recall
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just to avoid the same list of people. But don't
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recall specific conversations with anybody regarding the case. Answer. I
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may have had some conversations with Berman where he said
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in the wake of the suicide that he you know
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that the office was very much committed to continuing the case,
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getting to the bottom of everything. Question I'm going to
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and to that she's cut off or he's cut off
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by bar Answer. I would say she disappeared and there
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was this embarrassing period where they couldn't locate her, and
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you know, at some point I became aware that they
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were prepared to indict her and that they couldn't find her.
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But aside from that general information, I couldn't recall anything
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specific about that question. I believe they eventually found her
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in like a cabin in Vermont or something. Answer New
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Hampshire question, New Hampshire. Do you recall how they ended
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up finding her? Answer? No, I don't. Question. I'm going
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to shift ahead in the timeline a little bit to
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mister Epstein's death while at MCC in Manhattan. So you
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previously stated that you're personally reviewed the security footage from
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MCC from August ninth, twenty nineteen, into the morning of
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August tenth. We'll put up with the department has since
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released just so you can review it. And I just
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want to ask you a first question. Does this look
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like the security footage that you would have reviewed at
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the time. Answer No, I can't remember specifically the security
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footage and what the composition of it was. I do
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recall that it showed the common area and a portion
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of the stairway up to tyrrel. I think it's tyrrel. Question. Yes,
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so I'll ask some more specific questions. But this is
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about eleven hours that the department released this month or
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so ago. And well, we'll look at it schematically. It's
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a camera pointed towards the common area of the special
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housing unit at MCC. The stairway on the left goes
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to a different tier, and then you can see a
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very little bit of stairway on the right that goes
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to Tier L. Answer, uh huh, question, but you do answer.
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I really can't compare it because I can't really remember question. Yeah,
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answer exactly what I saw. I remember. What I remember
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about what I saw is that the resolution was good
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enough that I could see what the guards were up to,
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the corrections officers were doing. I mean, not crystal clear,
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but I could tell that they were looking at computers
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and working on computers and so forth. So I remember
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that the resolution was pretty good, and it may have
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been it could have been an enhanced or enlarge part
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of this. I just don't remember. Question. And to the
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best of your recollection, were there any anomalies in the
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tape that you reviewed any missing minutes or anything like that.
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Answer not that I'm aware of. I was told that
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it covered the period from the time he was put
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in his cell to the time he was discovered. I
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wasn't told of any missing minute and didn't notice any.
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Question do you recall viewing other camera angles, like a
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camera pointed down to your l or a camera in
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the stairwell or anything. Answer? I do remember other footage
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looking at other footage as well, but I think some
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may have been in the hallways or interesces things like that. Question.
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Did the Inspector General end up reviewing mister Epstein's death
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investigating Answer? Yeah, question and they found that the camera
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pointed directly down l block was transmitting in real time
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but not recording to DVR. Answer yeah. Question does that
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match your recollection? Answer? That matches my recollection. Let me
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just say that, you know, that video came to me
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after but a lot of information started coming to me
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immediately in the wake of his death, and I was
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getting a lot of information sort of real time and
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including from the Bureau, And as I found out things,
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you know, I started reaching my conclusions and this sort
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of came later in my process. Question Okay, answer, it
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wasn't the first thing I looked at. Question. Yeah, answer,
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I think it took some time of working to get
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whatever they were getting to me. So question, I'll try
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to cover as much as I can, but we'll start
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with the video redacted. I'm going to go ahead and
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introduce what will be Exhibit three, just because I think
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it'll help in the discussion. All right, folks, we're gonna
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wrap up right here, and in the next episode, we're
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gonna pick up where we left off. All of the
12:30
information that goes with this episode can be found in
12:33
the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
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episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're picking
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up where we left off with Bill barr and his
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Epstein related deposition. So the exhibit that they show is
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a map of the special housing unit, the top tier
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of the special housing unit at MCC with the cell
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and it's produced by CBS Bill Barry. Yeh question, and
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mister Epstein's cell is the one highlighted in red. And
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just while we're looking at this and looking at the
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camera footage, the camera angle that we're looking at is
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a little alcove and kind of the center of the map.
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Mister O'Callahan, this is you're representing that redacted about redacted. Yes,
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I am, mister O'Callahan. Okay, redacted, and I can pull
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the CBS article, mister O'Callahan. I just want to make
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sure he's looking at where you're appointing redacted. So the
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camera positioned right there, mister O'Callahan, see look at what
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redacted is doing redacted. That camera position right here and
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pointed towards the common area, mister o callahan, So it's
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up here, bar okay, I'm glad, yeah, mister O'Callahan. And
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that's a cell bar right, mister callahan, okay, redacted, all right,
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I'm going to play thirty ish seconds just so we
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can get our bearings on what the movings of the
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jail look like at mister O'Callahan. Is Bill Barr's lawyer question.
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So just while this is playing, you see what appears
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to be corrections officers kind of walking around the common
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area going back to the desk. And then there are
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specific points I want to point out so that corrections
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officers came from what appears to be a blind spot
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on the camera towards the right, and that inmate came
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from what appears to be a blind spot on the
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camera to the right. We can pause it. I understand
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we reviewed fifteen seconds of the footage, but based off
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that review, do you agree that there is a bit
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of a blind spot on this camera blocked by the
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stair landing and that cell answer yes, redacted. I'm going
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to shift ahead to the nine to twenty mark, so
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I will preface this with this seven forty nine pm
14:48
on August ninth, twenty nineteen hit play video shown redacted.
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So this video shows mister Epstein escorted from escorted by
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corrections officers from making a phone call back to his
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cell in L Block. So you can see him kind
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of go out of the frame and go up those
15:07
stairs to L Block. Mister O'Callahan again redacted, you're representing
15:12
that that's Epstein walking through redacted? Yes, and O'Callahan you
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can't really tell redacted. So is the doj ig and
15:21
the FBI the witness meaning bar I'm not going to
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challenge it, redacted, okay, And that was going to be
15:30
my next is that your recollection of that scene as well,
15:33
that around seven to forty nine PM, mister Epstein went
15:36
to his cell for the evening answer, I can't actually
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say that's my recollection of events that I saw in
15:43
the video, which is him being taken to the cell
15:45
that was seven forty nine or whatever. Question and then again,
15:50
understanding that we watched about ten seconds of that walk
15:54
from his phone to his cell. But in addition to
15:57
the blind spot of the camera kind off like to
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the right, it's also a bit of a blind spot
16:03
on the staircase up to L Block. Would you agree
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answer on this video, you know, only a portion of
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the stairway all the way as reflected, and my recollection
16:13
was a portion of the stairway was reflected on the video.
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Question that you reviewed as well? Answer yes, question Okay,
16:21
do you recall reviewing any video that showed the staircase
16:24
in its entirety? Answer no question. Do you recall reviewing
16:28
any video that showed L Block in its entirety? Answer
16:32
no question. So going back to the diagram and understanding
16:36
kind of again, we reviewed all of thirty seconds of
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this footage, but I am representing that it's the thirty
16:42
seconds that surround his death or surround him. Going back
16:46
to his cell. The blind spot also includes this door
16:49
on the kind of center of the schematic, which is
16:52
an entrance into the special housing unit. And just asking,
16:55
based off your experience and everything that you've reviewed, looking
16:59
at this, looking at the video, the only video that's
17:02
publicly available, is it possible for someone to get up
17:05
to mister Epstein's cell while evading that camera? Answer? I
17:09
don't believe so. Question you don't believe so? Answer no,
17:14
question even though part of the staircase is blocked and
17:17
the entire doorway would be blocked. Answer yes, I do
17:20
not think it was physically possible for someone else to
17:23
go up that stairway. Question and then the question asker
17:28
is cut off by bar you, but then he's cut off.
17:33
Question at the time you said you believe no one
17:35
entered L Block between the time? Answer not just because
17:39
of the cameras though. Question uh huh, bar yeah. Question
17:44
so what other evidence did you have to support that
17:46
statement that no one entered L Block between seven and
17:49
fifty ish? And answer? Okay, Well, I know we're starting
17:53
with the video, but for me, the video was the
17:55
icing on the cake. Okay. Question okay. Answer, So there
17:59
was a lot of evidence about you know, a state
18:01
of mind, and other physical evidence pointing to suicide, and
18:05
also testimonial in records pointing to this. But one aspect
18:09
of this is that the shoe itself physically isolated from
18:13
the rest of the facility and that it only has
18:15
two entrance ways. The primary entrance way has to be
18:19
opened remotely by central control, so no one would have
18:22
the key for it, and it was my understanding that
18:25
that would leave a record of it being opened, so
18:28
there was no way to come in that door except
18:30
going through central control having it remotely opened. And the
18:34
second door the second question, I'm sorry, just the primary
18:38
door is the door in the center of the schematic
18:40
that appears open in the picture. Is that the primary one?
18:43
Mister O'Callahan, he's saying, this one bar the one up
18:48
here redacted? Yes, O'Callahan. Are you pointing to the black
18:52
rectangular section. Yes, O'Callahan, he's saying, it's that question, which
18:59
one is the primary end entrance into the sachu Answer? Well,
19:03
I don't recognize the schematic, but from my recollection is
19:06
the primary The primary exit is over on the right
19:10
hand side. Question okay, answer, and if it's over here,
19:14
then I would have to see the schematic. But my
19:17
recollection is that you have to come up an elevator
19:19
and then you get into a room where you have
19:22
to get through the control door that can only be
19:24
opened centrally, and then once you get through that, you
19:27
come through the door that immediately enters onto the sahu
19:32
and that requires a key, and my understanding was that
19:35
the key to that was held by the officers inside
19:38
the shoe and they would have to come and let
19:40
the person in. That's my understanding. So I think that
19:44
it was not physically possible in the first instance, well
19:46
in my opinion, for someone to come through there. But
19:49
otherwise it was also my judgment that the video corroborated
19:53
that because number one, it showed the two officers who
19:56
were in the shoe, the only ones in the shoe
19:59
at the time, did not leave their desk, so they
20:01
didn't go to let anyone in question uh huh answer.
20:06
And second it was my judgment from what I saw
20:08
on the camera and what I looked at, I didn't
20:10
think it was possible for someone to get up to
20:12
the tier and open the door without being picked up
20:15
on cameras. So question opening the door would also potentially
20:19
make noise. Answer, Oh, clearly, it's a big, heavy still door.
20:23
Question yeah answer, yeah, question, thank you. And then you
20:28
said that in the central command had to open one
20:31
of the doors, and then a key answer yes, question
20:35
located at the guard desk had to open another set
20:38
of doors. Right. Question. Did you review the command logs? Answer? No,
20:45
I didn't. Question nobody entered. Answer I didn't review them.
20:48
No question, Oh, you didn't review the command logs? Are
20:52
you aware of the to that the person asking the
20:55
question is cut off? Answer? I didn't personally review them.
21:00
I was aware that they had judged that it was
21:03
not possible for someone to come in. Question are you
21:06
aware if anyone reviewed whether or not an entrance or
21:09
exit was logged? Answer? I believe the Bureau was looking
21:12
at that intensively, the whole issue of whether this could
21:15
have been anything other than a suicide. Question Are you
21:19
referring to the Bureau of Prisons or the FBI? Answer?
21:22
I'm sorry, the FBI question, thank you answer, and the
21:26
IG question and they did an almost four year investigation
21:30
into this, I think answer the IG did question yeah.
21:35
Answer the Bureau was much quicker. Question. Now we're going
21:39
to go back back in time based on the evidence
21:41
that you reviewed, around six thirty am on August tenth.
21:46
I'm not sure they're title, but the individual delivering breakfast
21:49
to the inmates attempted deliver breakfast to mister Epstein. He
21:53
did not answer his door. He called the guards, and
21:56
they found the body and began providing medical care. Does
21:59
it sound correct to you to the best of your recollection?
22:02
Answer yes, question, and then about an hour later, he
22:06
was pronounced dead at a hospital at New York Presbyterian.
22:09
I believe in New York. Answer, I know he was
22:13
pronounced dead at the hospital. Yeah. Question When were you
22:16
first informed of mister Epstein's death? Answer it was Sunday morning.
22:21
I was in my study at home, and I got
22:22
a call from my chief of staff saying that Epstein
22:25
died from an apparent suicide. Question. Do you recall about
22:29
how close in time it was to the pronouncement of death. Answer?
22:34
I don't recall. It was in the morning, I believe.
22:37
Question and it's still your opinion today that mister Epstein
22:40
died by suicide. Answer absolutely. Question, Before getting into what
22:45
kind of the investigation looked like after that, what information
22:49
was flowing to you? Do you know, to the best
22:52
of your knowledge, what are the policies and procedures in
22:55
place that were in place to ensure that mister Epstein
22:58
didn't commit suicide. Answer, well, there had been, as you know,
23:02
there had been an attempt at suicide in July, and
23:04
based on that they put them under suicide Watch, which
23:07
is the most intensive form of monitoring. And when he
23:11
was taken off suicide Watch, based on the psychologists at
23:14
the MCC making the determination that he could be taken
23:18
off that kind of intensive watch, I found out afterward,
23:21
you know, his lawyers had been pressing hard for him
23:24
to be let out of suicide Watch, and in any event,
23:28
he was put on the next level down, which was
23:30
I forget exactly the term used for it, but required
23:34
that he have a cell mate and that he was
23:35
checked on every thirty minutes, in addition to you know,
23:39
the other general security systems in place. Those were the
23:42
two that applied directly to him that were supposed to
23:44
prevent this question. And on understanding suicide watch is very intensive,
23:49
requires a lot of staff power. And on suicide watch,
23:52
are they provided with clothes that don't tear, the sheets
23:55
that don't tear? Answer? I believe that's the case. Question
24:00
when you were first provided with a more formal briefing
24:03
regarding mister Epstein's death. Answer, I think it came virtually
24:07
every day. I found out more information. You know, I
24:10
was obviously covering it very quickly and wanted to rule
24:12
out anything other than suicide, and so pertinent information was
24:16
flowing to me pretty consistently. Question and it was answer.
24:22
The FBI conducting an investigation, and the Southern District was
24:25
involved in that. I within an hour or minutes of
24:30
finding out about it, I directed the IG to have
24:33
people in New York go to the scene and conduct
24:35
an investigation. Start an investigation. Question and you've already said that,
24:40
you know, you reviewed security camera footage. Obviously there was
24:43
a previous suicide attempt that probably had psychologist notes and
24:47
things that were available to the FBI and BOP to
24:50
review and the IG to review. Were there any other
24:53
things that you reviewed specifically? Answer? I would review photographs
24:58
when people were discussing that were pertinent. I may have seen.
25:02
I think I may have been shown logs that were apparently,
25:04
you know, erroneously filled out by the corrections officers, things
25:08
like that the systems were explained to me. From time
25:10
to time, the BOP was also conducting their own investigation,
25:15
so there was sort of three investigations going on at once.
25:18
Question and it was kind of the culmination of all
25:21
this information that was provided to you that led you
25:24
to the judgment that it was suicide. Answer? Yes, well,
25:28
over time it became clearer and clearer to me that
25:31
it was undoubtedly suicide. As I say, the video was
25:35
probably the last thing I looked at or you know,
25:37
in reaching that conclusion. Question do you recall reviewing any
25:41
specific documents during that time period, like the coroner's report? Answer?
25:46
I did review the coroner's report. Question I asked this,
25:50
but did you review like entry and exit logs from
25:53
the SHU Answer? I may have. I saw some records.
25:57
I can't remember what they are. To wrap up right here,
26:01
and in the next episode, we're going to pick up
26:03
where we left off. All of the information that goes
26:05
with this episode can be found in the description box.
26:09
What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
26:11
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
26:14
where we left off with Bill Barr and his deposition
26:18
before Congress. Question do you recall reviewing any specific documents
26:25
during that time period, like the coroner's report. Answer. I
26:28
did review the coroner's report. Question did you? I asked this,
26:33
but did you review like entry and exit logs for
26:36
the shoe Answer? I may have. I saw some records.
26:39
I can't remember what they were. Question Okay. The chief
26:42
medical examiner at the time stated after examination that Epstein
26:47
died by I believe it was described as kneeling hanging,
26:50
so not jumping off the top punk, but using leverage
26:53
to kind of lean forward. Does that fit your recollection, Barr?
26:58
I remember discussing of a kneeling hanging, but I can't
27:01
remember what posture he was in at the end question
27:04
and answer. They found him with his buttocks facing the
27:08
question ground answer ground, So I'm not sure if he
27:12
was on his knees at that point. Question but you
27:14
hadn't do your recall seeing any evidence that he jumped
27:17
off the bunk or otherwise fell. Answer. I think question
27:23
versus just kind of and bar cuts her off. No.
27:26
I think the evidence was that he hung himself, and
27:28
it was essentially close to the modus operandi that he
27:31
had used before being put on watch. You know the
27:34
same nowses and coming off the top and landing. In
27:38
that case, he landed on his knees. Apparently it didn't work.
27:41
I just have to interject here, which I hate to
27:43
do when we're doing these kinds of episodes, but man,
27:47
the whole entire narrative around the first supposed suicide is
27:50
bunk absolute bs. Question were you being kept apprized of
27:56
the autopsy and its results in sort of real time? Answer? No.
28:00
Question do you recall when bar that was conducted by
28:04
New York? Question? Do you recall when you first got
28:07
briefed on the autopsy? Answer? Well, I heard about it
28:10
pretty soon after it came out. Question and at that
28:14
point it kind of confirmed to you that the medical
28:17
examiner ruled it a suicide. Answer by bar Yes, and
28:20
the fact that there were I mean, I think not
28:23
only that ruling, but the fact that there was no
28:25
sign of a struggle. I mean, he was a fairly
28:27
large guy, and the idea that people would go in
28:30
there and hang them in that way, with numerous newses
28:32
being tied and so forth, without any sign of scuffle
28:35
was not plausible. Question. Yeah, I think I remember. I
28:40
don't remember which investigation it was in, but I remember
28:43
reading like, no, you know skin or fibers under his fingernails?
28:47
Answer there was none. Question no like scratch marks anything?
28:51
Answer no contusions, any kind of defensive marks? Answer none.
28:57
Question is that similar to your bar yes question recollection
29:02
bar yes? Question I believe mister Epstein's brother hired a
29:07
medical witness to review the autopsy. Answer right. Question the
29:12
examiner report named doctor Michael Boden. Answer yes, I see
29:16
him occasionally on TV. I've seen him. He frequently comes
29:19
into these kinds of situations. Question. I believe he was
29:23
described as an expert medical witness in high profile cases.
29:26
So answer uh huh. Question take with that what you
29:30
will answer? Yes, question, but do you recall doctor Boden
29:33
being involved at the time? Answer I remember just reading
29:36
news coverage. Well, he came in after I believe, after
29:39
the autopsy reached his conclusions and he offered another view
29:43
of it. And I remember press reports to that effect.
29:46
Question his view which is contrary to the medical examiners,
29:50
And again I will say that he is an expert
29:52
medical witness, not a medical examiner. Yes he is. Yes,
29:56
he is. In fact, Michael Boden has more experience than
29:59
any anybody that they had on their team at the time,
30:02
So do with that what you will. He's a medical witness,
30:07
not a medical examiner. But that Epstein had fractures to
30:10
his larnix, and I believe it was three fact fractures,
30:13
three different fractures to his hyoid bone in his neck,
30:16
and that was described as extremely unusual in suicidal hangings
30:20
and more consistent with homicidal strangulation. Do you recall any
30:24
conversations about mister Boden's report within the department or with
30:28
the FBI? Answer by Barr, I remember conversations about it,
30:33
commenting on it. Question did anyone agree with mister Boden's finding?
30:37
Answer Bar No, I mean no one expressed agreement during
30:40
any of my conversations. Question no one expressed disagreement to you.
30:45
Did you understanding the evidence and what it was and
30:48
information was flowing really quickly, did you ever see any
30:51
evidence it suggested mister Epstein's death was a homicide? Answer No.
30:56
On the contrary, I think when you look at the
30:59
cumulation of the evidence, including the testimony of individuals, his
31:03
state of mind, you know, the whole thing, the process.
31:06
You know. One of the things that impressed me was
31:09
that it would have required, It would have required people.
31:12
It wasn't known until eight o'clock that morning, I believe
31:14
that his cellmate was gone, and it wasn't even clearer
31:17
during the day whether he'd get a replacement, So there
31:20
wasn't much time for people to understand that he was
31:23
going to be by himself, very very little time, and
31:26
this would have required coordination from probably two dozen people
31:30
maybe within the prison. Okay, full stop. Why was Nicholas
31:34
Tartaglioni in the cell with Jeffrey Epstein the first time around,
31:37
after Nicholas Tartaglioni was already found with contraband in his
31:41
cell while he was facing four homicides. Furthermore, we have
31:46
no idea who was in that gel cell or in
31:48
those cells that were next to Jeffrey Epstein in the shoe.
31:51
Nobody's ever come out and said anything, so could somebody
31:54
have been planted in there previously to do this? We
31:57
got a whole ass rabbit hole still to jump down.
32:00
But it's always surface level shit with these people, right,
32:02
They never want to get to the actual story. And
32:08
all these people were in different groups, you know, the
32:10
people who were repairing the cameras, the people who you
32:13
know were responsible for opening and closing the door, the
32:16
people who are responsible for putting in a new cell,
32:18
made things like that. For all that to be coordinated,
32:22
it would have required I think, as I say, maybe
32:24
two dozen people. Question uh huh so kind of and
32:27
I'm not I don't mean to be testifying, but like
32:30
in summary, kind of between a state of mind, previous
32:33
suicide attempt, and the process in place, in addition to
32:36
the coordination it would take to override those processes all
32:40
pointed towards the suicide answer by Bar absolutely, even before
32:45
you go to the physical possibility of getting into the
32:48
shoe and getting up in his cell. Question all right, Bar?
32:53
And the fact that there are eyewitnesses on that very
32:55
tier of other prisoners, including two right across the way,
32:58
who saw no one go in that night. Okay, so
33:01
let's hear from them, bring them in front of Congress.
33:04
We're just gonna take Bill Barr's word for it. You see,
33:06
here's my big problem, folks. I don't trust any of
33:09
these people. So them telling me something is not gonna
33:13
cut it. Let's see the evidence. Question and they said
33:17
they never heard the door open. Answer, right, question and
33:20
things like that. To your knowledge, did the FBI ever
33:23
investigate Epstein's death as a homicide? Answer? To my knowledge,
33:27
no question. Do you know if anyone investigated? Answer? I
33:31
think they investigated to determine whether it was a homicide,
33:34
but I don't think they ever got to the point
33:37
of feeling that this was a homicide. Question they never
33:41
the evidence bar cuts her off. I mean it was
33:44
a homicide or I mean a suicide? Question? Yeah, answer, yeah, question,
33:49
the kind of evidence never swung to more probable answer,
33:53
no question. Do you recall anyone investigating it as a
33:57
homicide that you were aware of? Answer No, I don't
34:01
think anyone got to the point of feeling that it
34:03
was a murder. Well, that's a problem right there, because
34:06
any death that happens inside of a jail is considered
34:09
a homicide until an investigation cracks off. They don't know
34:12
what happened, so they can't rule it out as a homicide,
34:14
So it's a homicide investigation, right. Question. Going back to
34:20
doctor Boden, just very briefly, I know that you said
34:22
you recalled generally, you recalled conversations regarding his contrary findings.
34:27
Do you recall having any conversations about mister Epstein's broken
34:30
learnix and hyoid bones outside of doctor Boden's findings. Answer.
34:35
I think I heard it discussed within the department. Question
34:39
and to the best of your recollection, the discussions or
34:41
that it was still consistent with suicidal hanging. Answer right
34:46
that they said they believe the medical examiner was correct.
34:49
Question and then you already said this, but I want
34:51
to ask it explicitly. You instructed the IG to open
34:55
the investigation? Answer? Yes, answer, as soon as I got
34:59
off the phone with my chief of staff, I believe
35:01
he contacted I asked him to contact the IG immediately.
35:04
I know that they're very familiar with Bureau of Prisons
35:07
and its processes, and I was told that he had
35:10
people up in New York who could get to the
35:12
prison right away. Question and then we've talked about mister
35:16
Epstein's state of mind an awful lot. And you said
35:18
that you or someone reviewed kind of the psychologist notes
35:21
from the previous suicide attempt, the reports that are associated
35:25
with taking an individual off suicide watch. Do you recall
35:29
any other evidence regarding what you were reviewed regarding his
35:32
state of mind? Mister Epstein's state of mind. Answer, Well,
35:35
you know I was aware of that. You know, he
35:37
had tried suicide, which I viewed as an attempt at suicide.
35:40
He had done his last will and testament right before.
35:43
Question when did you become aware of that one? Answer?
35:46
Sometime during the period where I was absorbing information. I
35:50
can't pinpoint it, but there was a period of time
35:52
where things were being learned and I was finding out
35:55
about them if they were pertinent, and he his efforts
35:59
to get bail had failed, So he was looking at
36:01
a period of time of incarceration in that place, which
36:04
I think for him was very difficult. Just to point
36:08
out Epstein's lawyers tell us something completely different. And I
36:12
do remember the buzz that was caused that Friday, I
36:14
believe by the release of documents by the court that
36:17
had a lot of salacious material in there about prominent
36:20
individuals and so forth, and that caused quite a stir.
36:23
And so I think that my judgment was that this
36:26
sort of set the stage for and was and he
36:29
made the call to his girlfriend. Apparently I found out
36:32
early that he that procedures were not followed and that
36:36
he was allowed to make an unmonitored call to a
36:38
woman who I believe in Belarussia, and who was his
36:43
I understood to be or believed to be his girlfriend
36:45
at the time, and he made a call to her
36:47
at that point. So it seemed important for him to
36:50
make a call to her that evening. So let's bring
36:52
her in and let's talk to her, let's talk to
36:55
doctor Boden. But no, they won't do it, will they.
36:59
And so put these together, I think it was consistent
37:02
with suicide question. And then during answer he cuts her
37:06
off just as to just as to a state of mind.
37:09
All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
37:11
in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we
37:13
left off. All of the information that goes with this
37:16
episode can be found in the description box.