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PST SPECIAL: 2023 NFL Draft Preview · The Philadelphia Sports Table | Philly Sports News & Views

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All right, everybody, you are listening to the Philadelphia Sports Table podcast show,
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the longest running weekly Philly sports podcast show in the world. That's right
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celebrating and recognizing our ten year anniversary this week on the PSD podcast show,
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and we've got a PSD special podcast for you this week. As the NFL
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Draft is right around the corner, we're gonna be focusing on the NFL Draft.
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We're gonna talk about philosophy, what teams do with their draft board in
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terms of situations that may arise during the draft where they didn't realize the situation
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may occur. So we're going to be getting into different philosophy to use different
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types of talent that we are going to be seeing in this NFL draft from
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a quarterback, tight end, running back position. We have got a great
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guest this week. He is one of our favorites, one of the rate
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at the top. Basically when we're talking about the NFL Draft that we're talking
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about draft prospects, we're talking about scouting. Let's get to that discussion right
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now. It's going to be a great one and joining us to talk about
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this upcoming NFL Draft. Absolutely love having him on. He was on the
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pod last year because this gentleman is in very high demand on a lot of
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other podcasts. He does a great job in terms of scouting, NFL scouting,
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college scouting as well. You can find his work at the Rookie Scouting
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Portfolio. He has been the creator of that particular document and a plethora of
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knowledge, data and information since two thousand and six. We've got the one
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and only mister Matt Walman. How are you doing, Buddy Cheff. I'm
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doing great. It's good to see it. It's good to see you too,
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and I am looking forward to this NFL draft. I know this is
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the time of year where you are so very busy, just whether you're on
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other podcasts, whether you're creating your own content, and just just the excitement
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of what is to come in the world of professional football based on this particular
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class. It's it's a great time, man, sure, I mean,
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certainly, you know there's a lot of hope for young players certainly, and
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for especially it kind of renews a lot of hope for fans. It's,
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you know, diehard fans are always looking forward to seeing who they're going to
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get in the future, how the direction the team may go give them some
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hope to either sustaining what they've done or maybe to move up a little bit
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further. And you know, in terms of maybe making some progress with the
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team said, it's always it's always a month of hope. Absolutely, And
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again, folks, if you want to check out everything Matt has been doing
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what he does in terms of his scouting, the Rookie Scouting Portfolio is a
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fantastic document for you to go through and just learn about some of these prospects
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and Matt. To really kind of start a discussion here, something that I've
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been giving a lot of thought to is when teams have to alter strategy in
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terms of their top draft picks. You know, I think most of us
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who follow draft prospects, and especially quarterback draft prospects, know we know who
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the top players are in this upcoming draft. So I kind of wanted to
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get into this different angle with you as it pertains to team strategy and when
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essentially a wrench is thrown into that strategy. So hypothetically speaking, say there's
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a team that wants to draft quarterback A and quarterback B. These are top
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prospects on their board, but teams behind them or even in front of that,
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there are teams that maybe want to jump ahead to possibly nab either quarterback
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A or B and they do so successfully. So this other team is so
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disappointed that they did not get quarterback A or B. And at this point
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the draft process, and I know every team in their front office is different.
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Does this team, then, who desperately needs a quarterback back of the
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future, do they kind of just take a gamble on another quarterback that might
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not have been at the top of their board, but is maybe the next
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best prospect perhaps. And I just asked this because I think there could be
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a couple of teams here facing this scenario within this upcoming draft. I wanted
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to get your thoughts on this particular scenario and how teams kind of deal with
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this. Sure, you know, and I think the key to your answer
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is what you embedded in the question, which is it depends on team.
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So let's talk about that a little bit. You know, back in the
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day, we can go way back and talk about how Jake Cutler wound up
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a Denver Bronco because during that time, you know, getting a chance to
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talk with someone like Ted sun Quist and a long time ago on his show,
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you know, Ted talked about how they had Jake Plumber. Jake Plummer
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was a very popular in the locker room in Denver. He had helped them
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get to an AFC Championship round and they lost to the Patriots, but Plumber
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had also thrown some keen receptions in that game, and Mike Shanahan was kind
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of through with them, you know, Mike Shanahan is more when you're a
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West Coast offensive coordinator. A lot of West Coast offensive cordinas have have reputations,
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according to quarterbacks, as being guys who were like in love with their
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system and their players are merely pixels on a screen as opposed to actually,
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you know, drivers of what goes on. So they want folks who behave
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to what, you know, who are going to execute the scheme. Now
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I'm saying they're airing to that level. Doesn't mean all of them do,
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but you can see that when they do air to that level, it's kind
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of more like, well, he may be a great athlete, he may
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have tons of promise, but I'd rather have that late round guy who's executing
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everything that I that I've drew up exactly as it is, and if we
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screw up it's on me right right now, that kind of thing. So
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at the end of you know, at the end of that at the end
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of that season, they decided they were going to draft another quarterback to the
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future. I mean, Jake Plummer was on a little bit on the older
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side, and they wanted some to develop, somebody behind them. And you
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could tell the Shanahan really didn't want Plumber long term, even though the locker
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room did. So they agreed on some players and player A was Matt Liner.
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Um, Mike Shanahan won a Matt Liner. But the but the GM
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Sun quests said, can you agree with our scouts and us that player B
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if Liner's taken, will be Jake Cutler, and Shanahan was. Shanahan absolutely
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said yes. Now there were other you know, what makes us an interesting
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conversation is that the Titans, on the other hand, were a team where
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the scouts and Jeff Fisher wanted Jay Cutler, and Jeff Fisher and Mike Shanahan
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were friendly and talked. You know, the then Cutler was in their backyard
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at Vanderbilt team. You know, player B that was on the board that
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the that the offensive coordinator wanted. Who was the new offensive coordinator was USC
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offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who obviously wanted Matt Liner. And then the owner,
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but you know the it was Bud Adams at the time, who basically
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Houston basically said, Sea, go somewhere else, take your team somewhere else.
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He wanted to flip the bird at the rest of Houston and draft Houston's
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home doown kid Vince Young? Ye, well, you can see who won
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out. So I highlight the situation this way to say this is that some
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teams will build a board. The owner will stay out of the way or
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be a part of building that board to some degree, sign off on what's
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going on there, and they will have contingencies A, B and C and
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not maybe A and B. In this draft. At the top of the
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board, they feel like there are two quarterbacks that fit what they do,
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and then maybe there's one or two that maybe they have early grades on,
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but they don't think they fit what the offense is about, and the coaches
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aren't going to sign off on that. So then maybe play or C is
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a guy who they look at and say, you know what, this Jaykner
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kid who might be available in the rounds three to five. We can tell
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we can look and see if he's available at the right spot for us and
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have him as a developmental option, either for a backup, or maybe he
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comes a journeyman starter. Maybe we'll be able to give him a chance like
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Houston gave Davis Mills a chance, or maybe the Eagles gave Jalen Hurts a
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chance because they didn't draft him in the first round either, and say,
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maybe we'll give m a chance and we'll see and if we like what we
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see and he acclimates fast, maybe we'll give him more opportunities and we'll grow
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into something. So that's what teams that seem to stick to their processes,
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dude. Teams that don't stick to their processes are teams where maybe the end
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I've heard this complain a lot from scouts is that is that scouts due a
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ton of work. The head of the director of the scouting you know,
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they've all got their process. They put everything together, and then the owner
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or the GM is two tuned in to sports radio to sports television and they
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wind up listening to ESPN and someone like Skip Bayliss or Stephen A. Smith
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or listening to Colin Cowherd, or they listened to Lewis Riddick, you know,
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and even you know, and Lewis obviously was a scout, so but
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still they may listen to one of those guys and then maybe they're not even
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listening to him. Maybe one of their friends who happens to be, you
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know, an auto dealer who owns a number of chains in the city,
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and they're in the steam room at the golf club and the guys ragging on
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the owner and saying, you guys, really need to get a more exciting
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quarterback. You need to get really this type of thing. And it does.
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And people don't believe this. But I used to talk about this about
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the ineptitude of like corporate America and how you'll see, like, you know,
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I remember working at a company once where basically the owner of the company
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was walking or not getting you know, people weren't getting bonuses at a down
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year, but he was showing everybody in the corporate office the new yacht he
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bought, like talk about like, yeah, talk about like just not understanding
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people and not understanding like how to really do things. Yeah, that's a
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good example. But or just a thirteenth hour decision, you know, eleventh
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hour decisions where you basically say, no, we're not doing any of that.
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We're gonna do this right, even though you know a good I'll give
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you a final example, and this will be this is a good one he
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can find in the Sports Illustrated. And I know the guys involved to a
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degree. Is that when Alex Smith had his wonderful pro day and Gil Brandt,
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who was at this point no longer a president of the Dallas Cowboys but
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a media guy, and he's in here saying, this is the best pro
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day I've ever seen out of a quarterback since Troy Aikman. And you're going
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they're thrown against air. It's all scripted, it's all I'm glad he has
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a I'm glad he has a wonderlick that's high and he can he can,
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you know, he can absorb information like a kid who just got you know,
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who basically got all his SAT prep courtesy of his mom, Felicity Huffman.
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But you know, it doesn't matter whether if you can recall this stuff,
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that's a baseline. Processing is better. But we'll learn that later.
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But all that happens, and the scouts did years of work in Saint Louis
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Saint Louis. Scott Sounds did years of work on Alex Smith and they had
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a fourth or fifth round grade on him. They had just Smoker, the
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Michigan State backup higher on their board than Alex Smith. Now, Alex Smith
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turned in some Pro Bowl seasons, but he struggled pretty He struggled a good
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bit, kind of like Daniel Jones in the way that and maybe even longer
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than that. It took him a while struggled to learn the game. Yeah,
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yeah, to really to play the game at that level. Yeah,
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he was a great college quarterback. Well, the one of the executives came
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downstairs to the scouting offices and said, listen, I know that you've done
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reports on Alex Smith, but i'd like you. We've gotten new game film
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that we want you to look at and grade often, So we want you
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to change your reports. I want you to change your reports based on what
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I'm going to give you. Here he pops in the tape and it's literally
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a tape with twenty throws. The twenty throws are all from highlights. They're
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just highlight throws. They're not like years of tape of game after game charting
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nothing, no charting, just highlights on YouTube. You mice won't gone to
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you. It was before YouTube, but you could have gone to YouTube and
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just popped in, like, you know, whoever your favorite favorite highlight guy
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is that sick highlights or whatever? You know, whoever does those things?
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And you and the scouts were like, listen, no we're not. I'm
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not changing my grade to cover your assets. You know, when it comes
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to doing this, why did you hire me? You're not being agreeable,
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And really a fight nearly broke up. They had to be separate, like
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the scout and the scout who had to be set operated and told the story
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he grew up. He grew up in San Francisco. His dad was the
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head scout, one of the top scouts for the forty nine ers during the
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Bill Wallshare, and he grew up in those offices, grew up in that
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room, and then became a scout for them himself. Yeah, so like
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he's you know, they his dad helped build the forty nine ers dynasty,
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and you know he's been around sky in all his life. And he was
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just like insulted. He was like, no, I'm not I know what
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this is about, right, And this is this is the the other extreme
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of that. So really it just depends on team. If you're if you're
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the Cleveland Browns owner early on in his career right now, then you're more
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to that extreme. Probably if you're if you're the Eagles, you're probably more
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to the extreme of like this is our scouts. We have some people maybe
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how he plays some people off of each other. It sounds like there were
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some things like that that maybe went on. I don't go too deep into
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that, but like those are the extremes. Is like you have teams in
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the Steelers, they follow their process. Their owner may if the owner may
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break ties. That's what Rooney used to do. He would break ties.
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And Steelers are probably one of the most respectable organizations when it comes to how
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they do things. You may say they're predictable. You may say, Okay,
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they haven't gotten over the hump in a while yet, but you know
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what to expect and the way the organization is run usually it's a good model
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for what should happen a lot of times. Yeah, And I find that
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to be interesting, Matt, in terms of just how the draft itself has
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evolved over all of these years that we have been following it and following it
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in detail with the talent that's coming out, and how just that strategy it's
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strategy that you were just talking about. Sometimes it's ridiculousness. Sometimes it's actual
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draft board strategy. How things just come out team by team, and I'm
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wondering if they're I guess I'm wondering if there's a certain mechanism by which the
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draft has evolved in terms of other teams learning from other teams. You know,
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you talk about the fact that there is a situation where an owner maybe
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in the in the sauna with some guy and they're talking about various players and
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what that owner needs to do and is swayed by one of their good friends
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at the country club. But it's bizarre to me that if an owner wants
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their team to succeed in the future, that they wouldn't follow a model of
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what other successful teams have done. I mean, so I'm wondering in terms
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of teams that have learned from others, like what have you seen, what
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have you seen or a ware have you seen this the most uh so far
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here as you've been analyzing this for many years, if at all? Yeah,
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Well, I mean you know, my main pro focus is my main
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focus is scouting talent. So I'm more focused on just scouting talent and not
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the macignations of the draft. But I've had conversations with enough people to tell
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you that one thing for certain is that we have to remember that, you
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know, we we think that GM's an owner. Owners want their teams to
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succeed. Yeah, well, the goal for owners is to make money,
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and so making money ticket sales is nice, that's for our nice, that's
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great, But it's really the way they make their most money is marketing deals,
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right, and television deals. And because the NFL system is set up
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as such that it's a socialist kind of environment that you know, while they're
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like, you know that they're chest thumping democracy and capitalism all over the place,
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you know, they don't pay for their stadiums. It's subsidized welfare basically,
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basically, Yeah, you know, I mean it is. I mean,
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you know, you can say, well there's jobs. Yeah, if
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you're on the lower if you're on the lower eighth of income in your state,
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you might be able to get a job at a stadium, right that
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you'll say that's a job, but you're not you're not supporting lower middle class
16:56
or upper middle class gigs for the most, or middle class gigs for the
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most. And a lot of those jobs are coming in through stadiums and you're
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footing the bill because you're the tax player. And if not, they threatened
17:06
to take their take their team and leave. On top of that, everyone
17:10
wins in the NFL when it comes to the TV deal marketing deal. Now,
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if the USFL or XFL became wildly successful and seriously competed with them,
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then maybe drafting good players would become a key towards actually having money making football,
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because you'd have to have a good product to win to make money.
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But until that that happens, and it won't. Probably these guys aren't thinking
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that way, even though they may say they are, they really aren't.
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It's like saying, yeah, you know, I'm eating healthy because I'm eating
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I'm drinking diet coke and light mayonnaise and marjarine or you know the way that
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people would think. And they're saying a sugar free everything. But they're not
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eating vegetables, they're not working out, they're just doing that and they're saying
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I'm you know, they say they're doing it, but they really aren't,
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and that's kind of how the owners are. But to put it in another
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way, when you start asking about what teams have learned, you've got to
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remember that teams like to hire from winners, So there's a lot of copycatting
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going around with the league. So really, what I would turn this question
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into is is that maybe the thing we should be looking at this year is
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based on last year or the past past ten years. Past ten years,
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we've slowly seen an influx of the college game to where, you know,
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Chip Kelly coming in and we see more spread offenses, we see more and
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then spread offenses starting to get to the point where we're seeing Cliff Kingsbury's in.
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We're starting to see more teams adopt air raid type of concepts from the
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college game, and now defenses from you know, teams in college started to
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catch up with how they play defense. So now you're seeing like safeties disguised
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as linebackers playing linebacker like Isaiah Simmons types or Buchanan types, and they're all
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through the college game, um, and they're being able to at least slow
19:03
down some of these spread offenses. So then the NFL goes oh, let's
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borrow some of that, and they start putting the governor on guys like Patrick
19:11
Mahomes, you know, two years ago. And then when that happened last
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year, all the coaches said, well, how do we how do we
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counter all this spread? Well, now that these offenses are light and these
19:26
linebackers who were in the box are really safeties, we actually can run gap
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style running. We can counter, we can pull, we can run toss,
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we can run it down your throat because we're bigger and more athletic.
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We're you know, bigger than you guys now, and we can do that.
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And the NFL saw their EPA, They're expected points average go down more
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than it had any time in ten years with the passing game and the run
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game was back, and you saw more gap plays than ever. So you
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would expect I would expect this year that considering that it's going to take at
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least a number of years for college teams to start manufacturing or at least recruiting,
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that's how I let's say manufacturing from an exploitative standpoint, right, they're
20:15
manufacturing players who can play in the box or start playing things that we see
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in high school where you can stop where you can. The offenses can counter
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the cover two and still throw deep. But if you're if you're not looking
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at the high school game, which they should be, you're going to end
20:32
up playing trying to get bigger linebackers or bigger trench players to counter the run
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game. And until those guys are available, the NFL doesn't have that supply,
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So what are they going to do. Well, they're probably going to
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still play Cover two, They're still probably going to be susceptible to the run,
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and NFL offenses are going to say, let's pull, let's get a
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second tight end, Let's get some tight ends who can or some big slot
20:56
receivers, or we're going to start using the small slot receivers as much some
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of our teams. We're gonna run more, we're gonna we're gonna get athletes
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out there, and we're just going to take advantages for the next three to
21:07
four years. So I would think this year, with a strong group of
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tight ends, we're going to see more tight ends go off the board,
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and more teams play maybe multiple and use more multiple looks where they're using two
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tight ends and they can use one as a wing back or h back,
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or split out in the slot if they need to, or outside, but
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they can also you know, confuse defenses or make defenses stay more discipline and
21:30
continue to run the ball more often. I think that's very interesting. We're
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certainly going to be getting into the tight ends a little bit more as it
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pertains to the Philadelphia Eagles, and just a little bit here, Matt,
21:41
but you know, getting into some of the talent in this NFL draft here.
21:47
You know, we know that, and I think it's a good segue
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here from what you were just talking about about how certain dynamics of this league
21:55
are changing. And we know that running back is generally a pretty deep position,
22:00
and some of that is how the position has changed in terms of its
22:03
value in the league over the years. Pertaining to this NFL draft, seems
22:07
like it's pretty deep position, of course, Bijon Robinson. You know,
22:11
maybe a first round pick, but there are so many other very good running
22:15
backs within this draft class as well. Teams that are looking to get that
22:21
running back of the future. I'm wondering, you know, what talent should
22:23
they be looking at and what round would be a prime round to hit on
22:30
a solid running back For some teams that really do need that type of talent.
22:33
Well, I mean I think that right now. I mean when you
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look at the running back class, it's or you look at running backs overall
22:38
for the NFL, it's just been segmented more or like back in the day.
22:42
Back in the day, you had running backs who generally were relied on
22:45
to do multiple things. I think running backs are more talented in terms of
22:49
different skill ranges of what they can do and what they're asked to do.
22:55
But they're segmented because they know that they don't want these guys to be put
23:00
in situations where they are going to be used too much because there's a lot
23:07
of turnover due to injury. So they look at that and wear and tear
23:12
and just decide, let's segment these guys and then we can then use guys
23:15
who are really great in one area and then and they don't have to be
23:22
the ultra talented do everything great. They can do two to three things really
23:26
well or do another two to three in that realm. So, like for
23:30
instance, looking at it right now for this draft class, when we talked
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about gap running, gap running is a simpler form of running for the running
23:41
back. The onus is now on the offensive line to create one hole,
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and they put all their resources into getting that one hole, which means you
23:48
need to have an athletic buller, you have too good down blockers. You
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need strong, fast guys who are really good in space to be able to
23:56
do that type of work where zone running is more the onus is on the
23:59
running back. The running back has to you know, the linemen just have
24:03
to get to their spot, and then the running back has to manipulate and
24:07
choose what goes on. And they do more manipulation in the blockers, more
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reading pre early post snap of what's going on now if you're you know,
24:15
the forty nine ers are a good example of running back for dummies, Okay,
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and I put it that way. Christian McCaffrey's no dummy. He's one
24:22
of the great running backs in this class, in this school, I mean
24:26
in this league, certainly one of the most versatile players. But when you
24:30
look at the forty nine ers before that, listen, they try to get
24:34
Tevin Coleman, they try to get they try to use Tevin Coleman and Jeric
24:38
McKinnon. Yeah, and those are guys that were more gap oriented runners,
24:42
just like hit the hole as hard as fast as you can. They drafted
24:48
Tray Sermon, and they did it with when I look at this, I
24:51
would theorize because I was really high on tray Sermon. The assumption being that
24:55
Tray Sermon being such a conceptually smart runner who's a really good cutback player and
25:00
very good at and using you know, efficient movement and ways to set up
25:04
defenders in the blockers and being really quick, they thought, oh, well,
25:08
he could turn the diagnostic part off of his brain and just hit the
25:11
one crease, right, But that's not really his game. So it was
25:15
hard for him to just like ignore things that he was seeing to just hit
25:22
a hole. And that's why he didn't work out in San Francisco, but
25:26
he could possibly work out in Philadelphia. The line, you know, but
25:30
that's you know. Instead, they used Elijah Mitchell, who, again when
25:34
you watched his tape, not a very advanced decision maker. Again, it
25:38
was like, don't think meat, just give it the gas. Hit the
25:41
crease, hit it hard. So when they had a chance for McCaffrey,
25:44
who's an elite player, they went for it because McCaffrey can do a lot
25:48
of things for what they what they're asking for and he's a special player.
25:52
Sermon's a good player, but probably not a special player. So that's the
25:57
that's the difference there. But when you look at all these different teams,
26:00
same thing. Cordarrell Patterson Atlanta, not a He's a smart dude, probably
26:07
in terms of book smarts or just life smarts. But when it comes there's
26:11
a certain level of intelligence with transitioning from the white board to the field and
26:15
as a wide receiver, reading different coverages and being on the same with the
26:18
same page with the quarterback. He could never really do. That was his
26:22
problem at Tennessee. It was his problem in Minnesota and all these other places.
26:26
But then you say, he's one of the best open field runners I've
26:29
ever scouted, and you watch him with Bill Belichick, say, let's put
26:33
him in a gap scheme. Let's run toss, let's run iso, let's
26:36
run power. Just follow that lead blocker, just follow him and once you
26:40
get past him, do what you do. And now he's when he was
26:44
in Atlanta, he broke out because of that at a very late age.
26:47
Yeah, Tyler Algier was an outside zone runner at BYU, not so great
26:52
at cutbacks, but I projected to be a good gap runner. They ran
26:57
gap with him a lot of outside plays side the tackles with gap runs played
27:02
very well in his first year. A lot of teams have gone to that.
27:04
So now the point being is that you don't need a Christian McCaffrey.
27:08
You may not need a trace sermon diagnosed, or it would be nice if
27:12
you have a if you're good Philadelphi Eagles who can run with a lot of
27:17
diversity to their run schemes. But if you're just gonna run a lot of
27:19
gap plays, you just need a fast guy who's going to hit that one
27:23
crease, who can do enough things well, but you don't need them to
27:26
be as advanced conceptually. And that's going to broaden the market for the running
27:32
back to the point that now we're going to be looking at running backs and
27:36
you're going to hear people talk about them as if they are idiot savants.
27:40
Sometimes I hear some places around here, I hear them talk about running backs
27:44
and what they need to know, and it's all instinctive and they sound like,
27:48
and I hate to say it this way, I'm you know, I'm
27:49
not comparing. I'm not saying they are racist people Okay, I'm not saying
27:53
that, but what I would say is I would say is they sound like
27:56
racist people back in the forties talking about Lewis Armstrong, slavery and some Jimmy
28:08
the Greek est type of weird thing that you would hear talked about like as
28:12
if like these weren't people who like actually trained and learned what they needed to
28:18
do. And you hear that approach with running backs, as if like it's
28:22
just this instinctive thing. It's actually skills learned to the speed of instinct.
28:26
But it's going to be reinforced even more now because the guys who run GAP
28:30
don't have to be as cognitively nuanced on the field with reading scheme and doing
28:37
and doing as much manipulation and footwork patterns and things like that. Because GAP
28:44
is a little simpler doesn't mean they're less intelligent. It just means the guys
28:47
now there's a broader range that you don't have to be that advanced to succeed
28:52
in the NFL. You can be a top athlete. And it's just going
28:55
to reinforce some of those crazy thoughts. Yeah, it really is. It's
28:57
it's a boy, It's gonna be really interesting to see what happens here at
29:00
this running back position, especially somebody like a talent like Vjean Robinson just uh,
29:07
you know, and what where certain teams will value him. But moving
29:11
along here, Matt, I know that you know you you scout quarterback,
29:15
running back, wide receiver, and tight end. That that is where you
29:18
focus in hone, you know your expertise on and as it pertains to the
29:22
Philadelphia Eagles here, and of course we're a Philly sports podcast here, it's
29:27
interesting to think about where the Eagles might actually want to go with this position
29:32
in the future. Of course, Dallas Goddard, who was a second round
29:34
pick a few years ago, is uh just he's playing very good football at
29:40
the pro level. But in terms of depth behind him, Jack Stole,
29:45
h you know, Tyree Jackson, that these are guys who don't really inspire
29:48
much confidence with a lot of US Eagles fans in terms of their their prowess
29:53
on the field and what they can actually do in terms of pass catching us.
29:57
Jack Stole not a bad blocker, a tight end blocker at all.
30:02
However, I do wonder from a tight end perspective what talent the Philadelphia Eagles
30:07
may actually want to look at whether it is going to be in the second
30:11
round, perhaps maybe in the third round. Are there some names that you
30:14
could give us and why they might be a good fit in Philadelphia? Sure?
30:18
I mean, and there's this is a very rich tight end class.
30:21
So you know, guys that you can probably find in the second or third
30:25
round are gonna it's deep enough that you may find somebody who's going to be
30:29
able to start. I mean, the guys that you talked about, Thyree
30:30
Jackson, Jackstall, they're late round hope shots at you know, with Jackson,
30:34
it's a late round shot at hoping unearth a guy who can turn from
30:38
being a quarterback to being the next Logan Toms right right, you know.
30:41
And then Stole was a special teams blocker guy who kind of out efforted people
30:47
and played very well. But he's not a he's never going to be a
30:49
primary guy. So guys that you might be able to look at. You
30:52
can look at Elijah Higgins, a former wide receiver out of Stanford, who
30:56
they've been you know, who's six three, two thirty five right now,
31:00
he's up ten pounds from where he was, who maybe give you a Darren
31:02
Waller esque type of player who can maybe develop a little bit more as a
31:06
block If you're looking from a receiver standpoint, if Luke Musgrave falls, you
31:11
know, he's kind of a I think he's a better blocker than he is
31:15
a receiver, but he's got the speed and he can develop enough that he
31:19
should be able to be a weapon on certain types of routes and maybe can
31:23
develop his full game on that level. Darnell Washington might be available there.
31:29
He's kind to me, he's kind of a Jimmy Graham type who can actually
31:33
do more as a blocker in specific types of packages that you're looking for.
31:37
If you're looking for mainly a passer or a receiver who is going to be
31:41
really savvy and be able to help you right away as a second receiver,
31:47
but maybe just give you a little bit on double teams as a blocker in
31:51
two tight end sets, or help you with a tackle and be working more
31:56
towards the outside of the slot. Sam Laporta out of Iowa is a very
31:59
good one if you want to look a little and you're looking for someone who
32:01
can be an all around player like Goddard and you just want to give them
32:06
time to develop a little bit longer two to three years. Tucker Craft out
32:09
of South Dakota State is a good example of a player who that he's used
32:14
a lot right now on like drag routes and little routes to the flat.
32:16
But he's a decent blocker who can get better and he has enough physical skills
32:22
to become a good route runner. Blake Whiteheart out of Wake Force, nobody's
32:25
really talking about, but six four two forty seven decent blocker, very good
32:30
receiver in the zones, can really work, and I think he can develop
32:34
into an all around guy who could be a nice second tight end who might
32:37
surprise you with a second contract. Josh Wile out of Cincinnati is six six
32:42
two forty eight, probably could get to about two sixty, probably could has
32:45
a really wide catch radius, has a lot of skills as a receiver,
32:49
can get better as a blocker, can give you that kind of thing.
32:52
Penn states Brenton Strange certainly fits into that equation as someone that you that you
32:58
can look at in a later round and say that works, that could work
33:00
out. And then if you're like you know, if you're if you just
33:06
want to go crazy and think, let's take a shot on somebody very late.
33:10
Then you know a guy that you could show that is no guarantee he's
33:15
going to get good enough. Is former Penn State guy out old Dominion Zach
33:20
Kunz, who is you know, basically has the metrics that are better than
33:25
many of the wide receivers who are getting praised for their their combines. But
33:29
he was, you know, four or five inches taller and fifty pounds heavier
33:32
running at the speeds that he was. But his catching technique needs a lot
33:37
of work. Even though he makes some tough plays, he has to get
33:39
more consistent with showing things up because projecting the NFL level, he's going to
33:44
drop a lot more balls. He doesn't look as as athletic on tape as
33:49
he is in workouts, which is a lot of that has to do with
33:52
techniques and how you know, running rouse and doing different things like that.
33:55
But those are some guys that fit the bill. I would add into that,
34:00
you know, a guy like Daniel Barker or Paying Durham would be interesting.
34:04
Paying Durham's a guy out of Purdue that he's probably he might have the
34:08
best hands in his class, regardless of what position. All Right, he's
34:13
just not fast. He's he's slow as molasses. But he's a guy that
34:16
if you squeeze the ball into him, he's going to catch it. And
34:20
he's a he's good enough, short, airy player to be a blocker.
34:22
So if you're just looking for depth, that would be it. We didn't
34:25
talk much about running backs because I went off on the spansion of all other
34:29
things. But I will say that guys that you can get, um,
34:31
there are a lot of players. There's twelve players in this class that I
34:35
think that can be high end contributors, if not starters like lead backs or
34:39
and there's like four or five guys and really four to six guys that I
34:43
think that could be starters in this league lead backs or Bell Kyle backs,
34:47
and so you know, it depends on what flavor you're looking for. If
34:51
you're looking for someone who can split outside and be a little bit more used
34:55
as a slot player in the passing game and used in a system, then
35:00
guys like Jamir Gibbs and Taj Spears are really interesting at that level. If
35:06
you're looking for someone who's going to be more of a guy who can do
35:08
a little bit of both for you, but can be a little tougher between
35:12
the tackles and get you yardage. Then guys like Bjean Robinson and Zach Evans
35:16
out of old miss TCU or Ken Drum Kendre Miller could be good guys that
35:22
you're going to see probably. You know, these are all guys that I
35:24
think have the talent to be drafted inside the fourth round easily, even if
35:29
not all of them will be. Zach Charbonet is another one. Him Miller
35:32
and Robinson you can use more in a pro style offense that the traditional I
35:37
back or single back in an eleven personnel set. Those guys would be good.
35:42
I think Evans can do that too. And then a little bit later
35:45
there are guys that you could look at and say, maybe more spread oriented
35:51
like Eric Gray, Chase Brown, Sean Tucker, Devin a Chain. Those
35:55
are all guys that you can use in space but also give you that DeAndre
36:00
Swift kind of like how they use that players varying degrees of success. And
36:07
then if you're looking later in the draft and you're looking for like second backs
36:10
who can like maybe develop and become second contract starters or at least part of
36:15
a committee, valuable guys like Christopher Brooks out of BYU or Rushan Johnson out
36:22
of Texas Big Backs. Who in Brooks a six one, two thirty five.
36:28
He's kind of a Gus Edwards type, you know, maybe even if
36:31
things really work out of James Conner type and he can catch. He's a
36:36
very good pass catcher. I like Brooks a lot. Rush On Johnson's getting
36:38
a lot of love. He's kind of a you know, he's kind of
36:42
a plus version of Wayne Gellman, you know, or you know, so
36:46
you know, or a slower version of Darren McFadden. So guys like that,
36:51
And there's even more. We could go down the list, but that's
36:53
enough. I've talked about ten to twelve guys right there. That fantastic,
36:58
absolutely folks. Again. Talking to Matt Waldman at Matt Waldman on Twitter.
37:02
Give him a follow he is a great following again the Rookie Scouting portfolio.
37:07
He's been doing it since two thousand and six. Matt, it was great
37:09
to talk to you, my friend, and I'd love to talk to you
37:13
at some other point down the road, perhaps after the draft where we're all
37:16
kind of just figuring everything out that happened. I'd love to have you on
37:20
again, my friend sounds good. We look forward to what a great conversation
37:24
with Matt. It is always awesome to get his insight during these conversations where
37:30
he's just I mean, aside from you the talent that is going to be
37:35
coming into this NFL Draft, whether it's running back, quarterback, wide receiver,
37:37
tight end. What Matt focuses on the philosophy of how the NFL Draft
37:45
has evolved over the course of all of these years. I really hope that
37:47
that came through during the course of our discussion. I really wanted to hone
37:52
in on that, and I think Matt nailed it. I really do.
37:54
And man, I just appreciate him coming on taking the time to really dive
38:00
into how how this all works, and how in a few days teams are
38:07
altered and for the better for the worse, and how it's going to propel
38:12
certain teams to another level, and how this NFL Draft can actually take teams
38:16
down into the toilet too quite frankly, So, it's going to be so
38:21
interesting to see how the NFL Draft plays out, specifically for the Philadelphia Eagles,
38:25
who, I mean, look, this Eagles team is going to be
38:29
looking to shore up and they're also going to be looking to strengthen their depth.
38:35
From from a trench's standpoint, we know that. Of course we didn't
38:38
get into the trenches with Matt, but we know the Philadelphia Eagles are going
38:42
to probably draft an offensive lineman, will probably draft a defensive lineman and d
38:46
rusher. Perhaps. We also know that the backfield from a safety perspective isn't
38:52
necessarily the strongest. Will we see them draft some safety help too. We
38:58
know what they think of the linebacker position. But as we moved to the
39:01
offense here, the running back position I think is going to be really interesting
39:05
for this group. We talked to Matt in this discussion here about just how
39:10
teams and their philosophies and how their schemes really encompass what the running back is
39:16
going to do. If they're just gonna hit the gaps or if it's going
39:19
to be some sort of zone read type of run. And that's going to
39:23
depend on who the Philadelphia Eagles are are going to be drafting if they do
39:28
draft a running back. Because it's a very talented offensive line, as we
39:31
know, the best in the league, the very best in the league.
39:35
They can do a lot so oh man, I can't wait for this NFL
39:38
draft. And anyway, I'm gonna quit pontificating. I'm gonna quick talk in
39:43
here. Let you get to whatever you are going to be doing next in
39:45
the course of your day or evening. Again. Very much appreciate you listening
39:52
to the Philadelphia Sports Table podcast show the downloads, Share it with your friends,
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40:15
here on this PST special podcast. Take care, folks, We'll catch you
40:19
next time.