Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #221: Jon Riley-Virginia Commonwealth University

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#221: Jon Riley-Virginia Commonwealth University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Track and field world, you were now tuned in.
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  To a home servant, Mike Cunningham for another
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  extraordinary message for Gill Athletics connections.
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  We welcome to the show with the go to appreciate the coach.
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  know till you know who you are inside. 6,000,000 waist to tie.
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  Choose none. So be all for us.
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  Finish line. The work ain't done so we learn
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  from the experts. But y'all got to put in the
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  legwork guilt. Athletics is the network.
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  It's all about connections put together for the profession.
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  To every track coach could be blessed.
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  We're back. Here we are the Gill Athletics
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  Connections Podcast, and you're here and you're back.
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  That's awesome. That's all we can ever ask for.
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  And you pressed play on today's episode, and I'm super excited.
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  This is one of those you've you've heard me.
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  If you've heard more than one episode, I get kind of, I don't
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  know what I get more excited for, but I get really excited
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  when we have a guest on here that I don't actually know all
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  that well. I know today's guests, we've had
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  interactions back and forth through different things, but I
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  don't know him. So I'm really excited to dig
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  into that. And get to know him and share
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  his journey with you. So without further ado, help me
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  welcome the head coach from VCU, Virginia Commonwealth
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  University. It's always helpful when they
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  put the name of the state in the school.
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  Thank you so much for that. The Rams help me welcome the
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  wise, the wonderful Mr. John Riley.
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  John, how are you today, Sir? I'm well and and thank you for
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  having me. I really appreciate it.
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  Absolutely, man. I'm excited about this.
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  Like I said, you and I have had some emails back and forth and a
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  little bit of work here and there, but we don't know each
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  other. So I just to me, it's a blank
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  slate. I get to just ask questions and
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  shut up and listen. Let's go for it.
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  I love it. I love it.
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  Let's go for it. I love it.
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  That's right. Well, let's start, John.
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  You know, I kind of start each episode off kind of with the
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  same basic principle question. But somewhere along the way,
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  coaching had to switch for you. It had to go from something that
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  was assuming that you were an athlete, something that was done
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  to you, John, go run this, go throw that.
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  Things like that to where it actually was like, oh, wait a
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  minute, like, maybe I could, like this could actually be a
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  career for me, possibly. Where?
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  Where does it start for you? Where does coaching begin for
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  you? Well.
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  After played a little bit of Canadian football for the
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  Calgary Stampeders in 97 and got hurt, returned back to my alma
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  mater, Southeast Missouri State couldn't finish up my last year
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  of track and field. So I just sat there and and and
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  watched teams run and talk trash and I couldn't do anything
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  because I got hurt in Canada, came back, finish up.
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  Then I got a job at WWLTV in New Orleans, working in news channel
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  Channel 4. Worked there for a little bit.
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  Then for some reason I got tied wearing a shirt and tie after
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  maybe I think three years. That's a common coach theme,
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  right? There's like, I got into coach
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  and so I don't have to wear a tie.
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  Yeah, yeah. So I would leave work early, go
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  to my high school, former high school and help out.
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  And one day my coach just said, man, you're here so much.
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  We have a position available on the football staff.
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  How about you come on out and and and coach, you seem to be
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  passionate about it and I gave it some thought.
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  Took the shirt and tied, put it on the side and I started
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  coaching at St. Augustine High School in New
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  Orleans, LA. Coached football in track and
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  field. So that's, first of all, St.
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  Augustine in. New Orleans, big football
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  program. If I remember, like, I kind of
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  know that name as a high schooler for sports.
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  Yeah, yeah, Yeah. So you're from that area.
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  You went to SEMO. Did you do football and track at
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  SEMO? I did football and track at SEMO
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  so I was on football scholarship and a track coach learned about
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  me through. I can't remember, but I got a
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  phone call as soon as I was on got to campus and he said you're
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  running track, right? I said let me talk to my coaches
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  to make sure that's okay and. Joey Haynes, he just passed away
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  a few weeks ago and that's my guy.
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  He allowed me, you know, I was able to do both.
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  He really, really fought hard to get the football coaches to
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  allow me to run track. Joey did what we call in the
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  sales side of life, assumptive selling like did not.
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  Hey, do you want to run track? It's like, oh you're running
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  track, right. Like I'm just assuming the
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  answer is yes and you're coming out take a step back you at the
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  Saint Augustine again a great athletic tradition there.
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  What was your experience with your coaches there?
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  You're obviously, I shouldn't say obviously it appears you
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  were more football before track. But on the track side, what was
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  the experience like as far as your coaches?
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  Were they, you know, involved in in like learning how to coach
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  the event where they, you know, my experience was my my football
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  coaches were my track coaches. So track practice was kind of an
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  extension of football practice. How was that experience for you?
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  It was a really good experience. My track and field coach, Coach
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  Payne, Tyrone Payne, he was our defensive back coach and he.
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  Every athlete on the football team had to run track.
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  It wasn't an option. So we had a pretty good track
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  program as well and Coach Payne did a really good job of going
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  to all the Louisiana track and field high school symposiums and
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  developed the method for us and and I wasn't a sprinter, I hated
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  running so. I met a guy training, I can't
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  remember his name, and I started doing long jump, so that was my
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  niche. I didn't want to run those six
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  hundreds that he killed us with. And I found a way to do my part
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  and I did long jump and then we found a hurdle coach and he
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  stuck me on the hurdles. So Tyrone Payne was probably the
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  most influential coach that I've been with.
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  And he was the 1:00 to bring me back to coach football once he
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  got the head football position at at Saint Augustine High
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  School. What was it?
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  As you think back, you know, it's it's always interesting to
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  me. Sometimes it's hard to see it in
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  the moment. When you're a 141516 year old
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  kid and you know you get all the grace in the world you're we're
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  16 years old, we have no idea what we're doing right.
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  But now as an adult you can look back and remember the things
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  that. Coach did.
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  Coach Payne did for you that the way he talked to you maybe some
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  of the the language that he used maybe the the hand on your back
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  when you needed it. As you look back now I mean
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  those are big words that you just said there the the most
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  influential and you've had some. You already talked about Coach
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  Haynes you already you've had some influential coaches.
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  What was it about Coach Payne that now you look back and go
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  that was the most influential coach in my life.
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  That guy would run through a wall.
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  Literally, he was just the guy who commanded the room when he
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  got up before football games for track meets and he did his
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  speech. You were ready to go out there
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  and play. You would put it all on the
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  line. And matter of fact, you can ask
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  any athlete that I competed with or played football with that
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  attended St. Augustine.
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  Coach Payne was that guy. Who knew how to press those
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  buttons, the speeches, the IT wasn't more about the ex's and
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  O's. He was really good at that but
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  he made he was. He gave those speeches that
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  allowed you to kind of think about what you wanted to do and
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  and go out there and do everything full speed and and
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  that and and my coaching style is a little bit like that.
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  Oh, I I I tried my best to give those speeches and and get these
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  kids to run through walls for me and and and do whatever they
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  need to do. If it's two or three events, I
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  can convince them to do it when it counts.
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  And that's the biggest take I I got from Coach Payne and it was
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  very influential. So they called me a really tough
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  coach. So you know, and I and I tell my
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  recruits the same thing, hey, if you can run it, you know I'm
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  going to tell you who I am. I'm going to tell you what I'm
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  about. And if that sound like someone
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  that you can deal with, let's go.
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  You you're part of this team. You don't have to worry about
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  anything because you know we demand certain things.
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  And that Will Coach Payne gave to me.
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  Sounds like he was that stereotypical motivator.
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  Like you know there's a you talked about he knew the X's
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  no's, but his strength was in I feel like he runs will run
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  through a wall and therefore I will run like I will follow him
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  through that wall. Yes, yes.
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  That's awesome. I love that.
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  It's interesting. You know, after you interview,
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  I'm probably the maybe the foremost.
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  Expert on track and field coaches now because I've
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  interviewed 200 plus of them in in in each one of those stories
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  we have a a coach pain typically but but they're always a little
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  different right. So some are the the coaches you
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  know the the the the the guests will say you know they knew how
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  to coach distance better than anybody ever seen it better than
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  my college you know all these things.
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  Others the ones that stick out the most are always those those
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  wall, those wall Breakers. The ones that will just.
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  You know, maybe I'll wear a helmet, but I'm going head first
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  into that wall and and you know, you're going to come with me.
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  And by the way, I believe that you can do it and that's why
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  you're going to come with me. That's awesome, man.
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  So you go to Seemo, play football and run track there.
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  What did you. I'm always curious because
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  there's no, we don't go to college and major in coaching
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  track and field in. Spoiler alert, we have all track
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  and field coaches here, so we know what they ended up being
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  for a career. What was the idea as an 18 year
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  old kid, which still boggles me that we, you know, asked 18 year
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  old kids to pick the rest of their life at 18 years old.
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  But at 18 you're going to Seemo. You were going to go study.
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  I studied communications. That was one.
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  One day I was with my mom and watching The Young and the
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  Restless I'm. Sorry.
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  When I saw a guy on their name, Neil, I can't remember his real
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  name, but I believe he passed and he was the, at that time one
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  of the only African American males that I saw.
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  Running a company at the time, not quite sure what happened to
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  Victor and I learned all these through watching.
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  But you know, I was like, what does he do?
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  And he was marketing, advertising an executive.
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  So coming from New Orleans, I mean, you know, I love my
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  parents and you know, they work really hard, but I I didn't see
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  very many African American males on TV running a business or.
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  Doing something like that. So that kind of stuck in my head
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  and and I went to southeast Missouri State pretty good
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  journalism school and I just decided marketing and and
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  advertising and that route I took and and that's what I
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  wanted to do. That is fascinating, John,
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  because it deals with something very serious, representation,
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  and then it deals with something very unserious.
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  Daytime soaps. But but I'm curious it it's
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  interesting because you talk about representation.
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  You you see some money that looks like you doing something
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  for the first time and it kind of, you know, I don't want to
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  put words in your mouth, but there's a little bit of like oh,
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  wait a minute well, well then maybe I can do this as well.
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  But but it was in the scope of a TV show so meaning like, you
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  know we can make anything, we can make aliens, you know, or
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  whatever we want cartoons et cetera on TV shows.
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  But it it seems it sounds like it was impactful to you even
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  seeing it on a daytime soap opera.
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  It was. It was.
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  And I believe I was sick, if I'm not mistaken.
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  So I had to stay home from school.
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  But I did go to practice, so I had to go home from school to
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  soaps where in the morning. And I just happened to see that
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  and that was very impactful, you know, and I just.
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  Just what does he do? And I watched it long enough to
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  understand that it was advertising that he worked for.
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  I didn't know at the time, but he worked for Victor Newman.
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  So, But again, that that was very impactful.
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  So I I I thought about it a minute and by the time I
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  graduated high school, I knew exactly what I wanted to do when
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  I went to college. Wow, that.
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  That's fascinating. You know it it again.
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  We have something today that we didn't have back then.
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  We have perspective. And sometimes when we're in the
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  in the mix, we're watching a show, we're playing a game.
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  We're talking to a friend. We don't think of maybe how
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  impactful that can be in the moment.
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  But then we were able to look back.
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  I mean, you know, you you probably were.
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  You know, OKI was sick. I'm home from school.
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  I'm watching soap operas. I don't know if you did or did
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  not like soap operas. I did not.
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  I remember my mom watching. OK, good.
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  That's I was. I didn't want to judge.
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  So I'm glad you shook your head. No.
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  And not really big. A soap opera fan.
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  So you're probably, you know, a little bit like oh man, I can't
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  believe I got to sit here and watch that.
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  I'd rather be watching cartoons or something.
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  But because of that what an impact it made on you and then
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  it influences what you major in in college and then what you do
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  as a as a first career that that to me is that there's there's
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  like a lesson there for like today's 16/17/22 year old kids
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  of like man, everything has influence one way or the other
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  and some of those that you think are very small are going to end
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  up being very big influences. It just give me a little
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  perspective. I've had a few athletes on the
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  team that wanted to do journalism be sports reporters,
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  be and I, you know, the background and just giving them
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  a little bit of information. One guy, yeah, when I graduate,
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  I'm getting my first job. I'm going to make all this
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  money. I'm like pump your brakes here.
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  You have to start from the bottom maybe in the 223rd market
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  doing everything on your own before you climb up the ladder.
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  So just some perspective. I was able to give some of the
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  athletes and and just in general just the background of just
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  having a wide range of of experiences with marketing with
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  dealing with people it it kind of helped me you know
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  communicate and and and give good advice to my student
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  athletes. I love it that that is so
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  important. I mean because 99 Percent, 99.9%
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  of your athletes, I I usually say 99% of your athletes are not
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  going to go on to be professional track athletes and
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  that's the truth. In this case, 99% of them, maybe
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  a little less, we'll say 95 are not going to go on to be track
• 16:20
  coaches, but they're going to go on to be advertising executives,
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  business owners, teachers, etcetera.
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  So to have a different. Experience level from their
• 16:31
  coach, that's really valuable for them.
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  Yeah, I hope so. I think that's a good dynamic
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  that not everyone has, but I'm not sure how many people went
• 16:45
  into the business, in the business or whatever world.
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  Then back to coaching, so. Hopefully that experience that I
• 16:57
  learned dealing with money and how to balance budgets and all
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  that stuff before coming back to coaching.
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  That's my favorite thing about our guest here.
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  You know, we all ended up as coach and track, but we all took
• 17:12
  a different path. You know, we've had some do the.
• 17:15
  I don't even know that there. Is this the average or the most
• 17:19
  common like you know, you'd like to think I guess.
• 17:24
  You know, an athlete who then becomes a graduate assistant and
• 17:26
  then becomes a assistant coach and then works their way through
• 17:30
  whatever. But I mean, there's lots of
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  coaches like yourself who went into private sector and then
• 17:35
  came back into coaching others. Yeah, we had one.
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  I can't remember after 200. You do forget every specific
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  person story. One went into graphic design and
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  then was like, you know, I missed track and came back.
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  You know, there's just so many different ways to get.
• 17:52
  Where we are today. So I love that story from you,
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  man. That's that's awesome.
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  So you go to CMO studying communications.
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  I love that I was a print journalism public relations
• 18:00
  major. So in the same vein at the at
• 18:03
  the top journalism school in the country, Troy University, you
• 18:07
  know I. Have to.
• 18:08
  Yeah, yeah, I always have to brag on my.
• 18:09
  Texans, Not Mizzou, but Troy? Thank you for agreeing with me,
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  John. I appreciate that and.
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  And you said you, you alluded earlier, we're going to get into
• 18:21
  this because this is cool. You played in the Canadian
• 18:23
  Football League, so obviously you had some success with
• 18:26
  football. You don't go to the next level
• 18:28
  without having some success there.
• 18:29
  At any time. While you're in C mode, though,
• 18:33
  is coaching at all in your mind or is it all like, I'm going to
• 18:36
  get my degree and and maybe you had aspirations of making to the
• 18:40
  NFL if you make it to the CFLI think you have to at least
• 18:42
  you're getting some tryout, you know, some work and stuff like
• 18:45
  that. But it's coaching at all.
• 18:46
  Like, Oh yeah, I might also coach.
• 18:49
  Never thought about coaching. Never, never crossed my mind at
• 18:53
  all. I just thought I was going to be
• 18:56
  a professional football player and if that didn't work out,
• 19:00
  journalism, marketing, whichever communication path that I was
• 19:05
  going to take. Yeah, and that's so interesting.
• 19:07
  I love that. So tell me more about football,
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  because I went to the greatest university in the world, Troy,
• 19:12
  and we had some guys that went on to the the Canadian Football
• 19:15
  League in the NFL and I know just how.
• 19:18
  Hard, that is. I mean, we had some like I
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  thought we had some phenomenal athletes and they didn't make
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  the NFLI mean that's just a whole much like going pro and
• 19:28
  track, right? I mean, there's some phenomenal
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  track athletes that you just have no shot at the next level.
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  It's just a, it's a it's a chasm that is a mile wide.
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  What was that experience like doing tryouts and then going and
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  playing up in Canada? Yeah, that was tough.
• 19:42
  I mean, you get up there and you have three days to prepare.
• 19:48
  Maybe, you know, prepare, practice and and prepare and you
• 19:52
  have a game within 5 days of being there, so you have to
• 19:57
  learn a lot. They only at that time they only
• 20:00
  kept 15 Americans so. Interesting.
• 20:04
  Yeah, I made the cut. I had a teammate, Calvin
• 20:06
  Anderson. I played for the Calgary
• 20:08
  Stampeders in 97. So Calvin Anderson, he was on my
• 20:13
  team at CMO and he was one of the.
• 20:16
  A really good running back in in college and in in Canada and at
• 20:22
  that time I believe one team had folded.
• 20:26
  I can't remember much. Nope, not definitely not
• 20:29
  Montreal, but and then I think I was there for a couple of couple
• 20:34
  of weeks. Then I believe they had a draft
• 20:40
  within the Canadian league because one team folded.
• 20:45
  And a small injury pulled my groin, sat on the side for a
• 20:50
  week and then was replaced immediately because you only can
• 20:54
  have a certain amount of Americans there.
• 20:56
  So it was a short stint, but I learned a lot, got a chance to
• 21:01
  play a lot and the experience was was great.
• 21:05
  But I I I don't like Canadian football as much as I like
• 21:10
  regular football because he didn't have much time to adjust
• 21:13
  and learn. But the experience was great.
• 21:17
  There's some subtle differences, right, between CFL and NFL, like
• 21:21
  the field. The field is wider.
• 21:24
  Field is wider, you play with more players and you have what's
• 21:27
  called the waggle. You have an opportunity as a
• 21:29
  receiver to move side to side on the line and you have an
• 21:34
  opportunity to also from the backfield Sprint towards the DB,
• 21:39
  So. If you run towards the line,
• 21:41
  yeah, yeah, that that has to be murder for a DB by the way.
• 21:44
  It is. Yeah.
• 21:47
  And then what? You said more players, Do they
• 21:49
  have more than 11 on the field? I believe, yeah, they have 12
• 21:53
  players. I believe.
• 21:55
  I can't. It's been what, 97?
• 21:57
  So yeah. It's been a little bit.
• 21:58
  Yeah, I really don't follow Canadian football.
• 22:00
  I'll give you Grace for that. No problem.
• 22:02
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:02
  And then isn't there? Do you have one more down or one
• 22:05
  less down you? Have 3 downs. 3 downs, Yeah.
• 22:08
  Yeah, that's right. That's right at the.
• 22:09
  Time the last person. Let's say it's a fumble.
• 22:12
  And the ball gets knocked out of bounds.
• 22:14
  If my memory is correct, whoever knocks it out of bounds take
• 22:17
  possession. So a lot of those things could
• 22:20
  have changed by now, but I believe that's that's that's
• 22:23
  right. I don't follow Canadian football
• 22:25
  anymore, but it was a really good experience.
• 22:29
  That's that's kind of a cool rule, if I hear you right?
• 22:32
  So if someone fumbles. And if I go, if I'm the DV and I
• 22:35
  just, all I can do is just dive to knock it out of bounds so I
• 22:37
  don't have possession of it. It's my team's ball though, even
• 22:40
  though I. Believe so.
• 22:41
  I believe so. I didn't stay that long.
• 22:43
  So that's what I, you know, remember from maybe you know a
• 22:47
  couple of games that I play. That feels like WWE and NFL
• 22:51
  together for some reason. I don't know why.
• 22:52
  It just feels like there's some wrestling component to that.
• 22:55
  And if my memory is correct, there's no fair catch either.
• 22:58
  That could have changed. So that might have changed
• 23:01
  because you know, there's definitely been change in the
• 23:03
  NFL as far as how much more towards the the fair catch for
• 23:06
  sure. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 23:09
  We get hurt and that is like the the death Knoll for football
• 23:14
  player, especially ones that are trying to make the team.
• 23:16
  There's just, it's hate to say it's a dog doggie dog world and
• 23:21
  you know you're dispensable. But man, there are so many great
• 23:24
  athletes and so many great athletes trying that if you are
• 23:27
  injured. It's out and the next one's in.
• 23:30
  So completely understand that you come back to the States and
• 23:35
  you go to back home. Go back home for a while and
• 23:38
  then I go back to see mode to finish up.
• 23:42
  Yeah, I still had a year of eligibility for track and field,
• 23:46
  right? But I couldn't do anything.
• 23:48
  I just sat on the side and. I couldn't give him those 10
• 23:52
  points in the long jump, 10 points in the triple jump, like
• 23:55
  I did prior to I. Had to kill that, Had to kill
• 23:59
  cochains. It's like, man, there's 20 plus
• 24:01
  points sitting right there. And and and at the time Middle
• 24:06
  Tennessee was in our conference and they had jumpers and and the
• 24:11
  Middle Tennessee guy was injured as well.
• 24:13
  So we're sitting there watching these guys Eastern Illinois had
• 24:16
  just came into the conference and.
• 24:20
  They were talking trash and we couldn't do anything about it
• 24:22
  but just watch. So But you know, again, you know
• 24:27
  I gave it, gave it a shot, try to give him, you know,
• 24:30
  everything I had in order to help him win another
• 24:32
  championship. But I couldn't just try to get
• 24:38
  it done. But I ran down the runway a
• 24:41
  couple of times, but I I couldn't do anything.
• 24:43
  And he just, you know what? I know you want to just.
• 24:47
  Just rest up and sit on the side.
• 24:50
  Did you what What advantage did you take up during that time?
• 24:54
  Did you observe more of how Coach Haynes and the rest of the
• 24:57
  coaching staff coached or were you more focused on you had to
• 25:00
  finish out your degree? Were you more focused on that?
• 25:04
  Kind of combination of both, you know, I was more frustrated than
• 25:07
  ever. Anything that I couldn't finish
• 25:09
  up in in Canada and now I'm back.
• 25:13
  You know, finishing up, but I'm glad I had an opportunity and
• 25:17
  and the ability to be able to come back and be on track and
• 25:21
  field scholarship this time because I don't know how I
• 25:25
  would, I would have been able to afford college.
• 25:27
  I didn't plan on all that. So coach Haines was a blessing
• 25:32
  to me. He allowed me to come back and
• 25:34
  finish up and and you know it just, it all worked out.
• 25:40
  And I love that you mentioned Coach Haines, you know we we
• 25:42
  lost them recently and you know is one of those guys that I
• 25:46
  don't know that he got the do that he deserved because he was
• 25:51
  out of CMO. I mean you know I coached at
• 25:53
  Troy. So you know, you know we had
• 25:54
  battles with CMO and both football and track and you know
• 25:57
  it was always in our minds, the famous CMO relays.
• 26:00
  I mean just. Real, you know, a small team
• 26:04
  that always had fighters that always had problem people in the
• 26:09
  jumps. Like, man, you knew you're going
• 26:11
  to have some people like you coming down like, oh crap, this
• 26:13
  guy's good. We got to make sure we can, you
• 26:14
  know, do something against him. Just always had tough, tough,
• 26:17
  tough competitors. And I think that started from
• 26:19
  the top with Coach Haines. It did.
• 26:22
  He he did a really good job of getting the right people on the
• 26:26
  team and I didn't know anything about that at that point.
• 26:29
  And it's not red good to great. But he had the right people on
• 26:33
  the bus and he was able to get a group of guys together because I
• 26:37
  think they they did really well Division Two.
• 26:40
  So my freshman year, I think that was the first year that
• 26:44
  they became a Division One program.
• 26:47
  So very successful Division Two program and maybe the first or
• 26:53
  maybe that was my maybe that was the 2nd year, my freshman year
• 26:57
  that they were in Division One. But I do know that he had a
• 27:00
  really good. A couple of really good team
• 27:03
  division Two and they were really good.
• 27:07
  So we came into a situation where he had been successful and
• 27:12
  he contribute. You know, he taught me how to
• 27:16
  win on this level. He taught me how to win and I
• 27:20
  and I took that with me. Give me an example of that.
• 27:24
  When you say he taught you how to win, what was something that
• 27:26
  he did that you observed that now you can look back and back?
• 27:29
  Oh, OK, That's how you create a winning program.
• 27:32
  Well, definitely. He stacked coach Eric up and
• 27:35
  Chrome Packers doing a really good job at SEMO now with all
• 27:38
  the good throwers, didn't you know, gave him every
• 27:40
  opportunity. He was a GA when I was there,
• 27:44
  Coach Chrome, but definitely put numbers in the throws.
• 27:49
  We had depth in the jumps. And the sprints and and we had
• 27:53
  some distance guys that can get some points here and there but
• 27:58
  the same strategy is is what I have now.
• 28:01
  You know definitely speed, power throws that we have plenty of
• 28:06
  opportunities to school points and the throws and the jumps and
• 28:10
  we got to have a mixture of good sprints, good distance and just
• 28:14
  a combination of all. So, so A-Team aspect, not just
• 28:18
  okay, we're going to have the greatest sprints and hurdlers
• 28:20
  we're going to have. We're gonna have as good a
• 28:22
  distance crew as we can, have a good as throws crew, jumps crew,
• 28:25
  etc. So well-rounded.
• 28:29
  And that's what I learned. I kind of paid attention to
• 28:32
  everything that went on and we were happy when the throwers had
• 28:37
  success, you know, and I'm like, well.
• 28:39
  You know, we're the first ones to go off.
• 28:41
  You know throw is going to go at probably 8:00 AM, then it jumps
• 28:44
  right behind. So we going to set the tone
• 28:46
  early and handle business so that when the sprinters and
• 28:50
  distance folks come to the track, we're already up by 30
• 28:52
  points. So that was the mindset and and
• 28:55
  Coach Haynes, you know is is definitely the person who showed
• 29:00
  me the way to do it. I love it.
• 29:02
  That's great. It's a great legacy.
• 29:03
  You're continuing on with him again, Just what a.
• 29:08
  A great coach, no doubt, but an even better person.
• 29:10
  So just love love him to death after that.
• 29:14
  So you finish out your degree in what was your actual degree and
• 29:18
  was it advertising? Yes, communication with emphasis
• 29:21
  and advertising. So did that.
• 29:25
  Was able to go back to New Orleans and get a job at WWLTV
• 29:29
  where I worked in marketing from 98 to 2001.
• 29:35
  So what's it like? You know, almost everybody
• 29:37
  listening right now has not worked at a TV station in any
• 29:41
  form or fashion. We've all watched them, but
• 29:43
  probably have not worked at. What's it like working for a TV
• 29:45
  station under, you know, they've got deadlines for their news
• 29:49
  crew, things like that. What, what's and what was your
• 29:52
  role in all that? I roll when I first thought it
• 29:54
  was a production assistant. So I had to learn lighting.
• 29:57
  I had to learn how to mic. I had to learn sound.
• 30:01
  I had to learn almost everything to deal with news.
• 30:05
  The production side of it, so after about six months then I
• 30:09
  got positioned as a floor director.
• 30:12
  So I directed the news and not the news director, but as a
• 30:17
  floor director, you know, made sure the talent had knew which
• 30:21
  camera to. Turn to and made sure the mics
• 30:24
  were on, made sure the weather guy stood in the right spot and
• 30:29
  all that stuff and the lighting was good.
• 30:31
  So I had a really good experience learning a lot about
• 30:34
  the news industry and eventually I moved up to marketing and
• 30:38
  advertising after learning all that stuff.
• 30:40
  So you know a really good friend of mine, Todd Smith, who is now
• 30:46
  the current general Manager of that station.
• 30:49
  It went to Saint Augustine High School.
• 30:51
  So that's the first person I reached out to and like I know
• 30:55
  you played football and you did all this, but if you're going to
• 30:58
  do this right, you have to start from the bottom and work your
• 31:02
  way up. So that's exactly what I did and
• 31:05
  and it's worked with some amazing talent at the news
• 31:10
  station. A lot of them went on to
• 31:12
  national news and and did some good things, so.
• 31:16
  Great experience. Were you the guy that got to
• 31:19
  count a manual 4/3? Yes.
• 31:22
  Oh, that's come on, That's outside being, I guess, the
• 31:24
  anchor man. That's that's a pretty cool job.
• 31:27
  And I get all controls on you. Yeah.
• 31:30
  And Speaking of Anchorman, so how much of the movie Anchorman
• 31:34
  is actually true in the news studio?
• 31:38
  Well, you know they don't have bourbon on the on the desk, so.
• 31:42
  But I'm sure when it's stressful because we had lots of, you
• 31:46
  know, stories about, you know, we did lots of hurricane
• 31:49
  courage, a lot of people was able to pack up and leave the
• 31:54
  city. I had to stay there and and I'm
• 31:57
  sure they were stressed out at that point and had some bourbon
• 31:59
  somewhere. Sure.
• 32:01
  Deserving so. But it's a 24/7 type of deal.
• 32:06
  You have to be prepared for it and.
• 32:08
  You know, you're not going to start off making a ton of money
• 32:11
  and you just have to deal with it and and get the experience
• 32:15
  and kind of move up the way any profession some, you know, does.
• 32:22
  But again, great experience with that and like I told you
• 32:28
  earlier, I took, you know, when I became the advertising
• 32:32
  marketing guy. Wearing a shirt and tie because
• 32:34
  as a production assistant, you're in T-shirt, you're
• 32:37
  sweating, you're doing everything.
• 32:39
  Then I got an opportunity to work in marketing where I had to
• 32:43
  wear a shirt and tie. I didn't enjoy that as much.
• 32:47
  It gets. Old.
• 32:49
  It gets old quick. Then the first time you wear,
• 32:51
  it's like, all right, it's a little uncomfortable, but I look
• 32:53
  nice. Yeah, after a month you're like
• 32:55
  alright, seriously, Another. I have to do this again.
• 32:57
  Another tie, another shirt? Yeah.
• 32:59
  Yeah. And I'm out there in the field,
• 33:01
  you know going business to business and it's in New Orleans
• 33:06
  and hot so. Humid, yeah.
• 33:10
  Mid whatever you know and and took a lot of time off to go and
• 33:16
  if Todd ever sees this he's going to be like that's but took
• 33:20
  a lot of time off and and went to my high school and practice.
• 33:25
  Helping out as much as I could and that's when it all started.
• 33:30
  So you're going back, helping the high school, Love that,
• 33:33
  giving back me, you know, I know you had to look at some of these
• 33:36
  16, seven-year old kids and be like, man, that was me right
• 33:38
  there. That kid right there.
• 33:39
  That was me. I was this goofball.
• 33:41
  I was, I didn't know how much talent I actually had and all
• 33:43
  these things. Right.
• 33:45
  So you said that's where it all began.
• 33:47
  So tell me, how did it develop from something like, oh, I want
• 33:51
  to help because, you know, it's a skill I have and I love
• 33:53
  athletics. To like, Oh no, no.
• 33:55
  This is actually like, I don't know what I'm doing up here in
• 33:57
  the shirt and tie. I actually want to be on this
• 34:00
  track. You know what really helped was,
• 34:03
  and it's sad to say this, but when 9/11 occurred, all the
• 34:10
  national news were broadcast through local stations.
• 34:16
  So there was no advertising dollars for me to make because
• 34:19
  it was all national news. Interesting.
• 34:22
  It was just. It was a crazy moment because
• 34:25
  everything had to do with 911 and it was at that moment where
• 34:33
  my coach called me up and and had no idea what my situation
• 34:38
  was, but I had signed a contract with the news station to be
• 34:42
  there for three years and. I was able to get out of it
• 34:48
  because of that situation and I told my guys like hey man I'm
• 34:51
  gonna go St. all they need me over there and and he was okay
• 34:56
  with it and and from September after September 11th season was
• 35:03
  right there and I hopped in and and and that's how it went.
• 35:08
  Wow, yeah. Again, another event that.
• 35:12
  You know, affected all of us of course, but indirectly affect
• 35:15
  like you weren't there and maybe hopefully you didn't have any
• 35:17
  family members things there, but it did affect you
• 35:20
  professionally. It's like man, you know your
• 35:22
  your resources all dried up because of of what happened.
• 35:26
  Yeah, it it was, you know, I didn't know at the time because
• 35:29
  I was still new doing everything and and didn't realize how it
• 35:33
  would impact our paychecks. You know, I'm still the young
• 35:37
  guy that had to go out there and and.
• 35:40
  Create business and and and you know, it wasn't an old
• 35:44
  established guy who had all the regional and and national
• 35:49
  accounts. I had to get all the local
• 35:51
  accounts. So you know, it taught me a lot.
• 35:55
  So you know I had to persevere through that.
• 35:58
  So you go back over to Saint Ogg's, you're coaching football
• 36:00
  and track. Yes, football and track.
• 36:03
  Describe the difference in your and.
• 36:06
  Maybe it was none, Maybe you just attack everything with the
• 36:08
  same vigor and professionalism. But was there any?
• 36:12
  Again, looking back, did you notice that?
• 36:14
  Were you happier? Was there an extra balance in
• 36:17
  your step because now you're working athletics versus working
• 36:19
  in the private sector? Yeah, it was a little bounce in
• 36:22
  the step because now I'm back in football, had an opportunity to
• 36:26
  work with some really good athletes.
• 36:30
  You know St. August, an Allboy school, Allboy
• 36:33
  private school and you know it. We we definitely had the student
• 36:39
  athletes there. So it was really good
• 36:42
  opportunity. I have one of the premier
• 36:45
  receivers coming out of high school that I was able to coach
• 36:49
  and the Keem Jala ended up going to Miami, but definitely was a
• 36:54
  20 point guy on the track. 47 high 400 meter guy and can just
• 37:01
  fly and run good route. So had some really good guys
• 37:05
  that I worked with and and that was a great experience so that
• 37:08
  got my juices flowing and we just from that point.
• 37:14
  Coach Payne my guy from early he was an assistant coach when I
• 37:18
  was an athlete he was the guy who really influenced me to
• 37:24
  really come back and coach and and and.
• 37:27
  And and do my thing. Did did you, You know in
• 37:30
  Alabama, I don't know how we say this in Louisiana, but in
• 37:32
  Alabama we say like a duck to water.
• 37:35
  You've been off of athletics for a little while.
• 37:37
  You know you hadn't and you definitely certainly hadn't
• 37:39
  coached. Did you, as you step back on
• 37:42
  specifically here in the football field, be in the first
• 37:44
  sport that you came back to coach in?
• 37:47
  Did did he like to a duck to water was like, Oh yeah, okay, I
• 37:50
  understand. I remember all the routes.
• 37:51
  I remember coach Payne what he requires.
• 37:53
  Or was there a little bit of an adjustment period?
• 37:56
  No adjustment. I mean the way we treat those
• 37:59
  guys. I mean and have to know all the
• 38:00
  coverages. So my thing I had to get in
• 38:03
  there and teach the receivers what was covered two, what was
• 38:05
  two, man, what was covered, 3 cover 4, all those things.
• 38:10
  And you know that was my part and and it's everything from
• 38:14
  college was still in my head. So and nothing changed from high
• 38:18
  school. So all the coverage is still the
• 38:20
  same. You know might try to disguise
• 38:22
  some things a little different, but it all works out.
• 38:26
  So that it was just like it was refreshing just to get back and
• 38:31
  draw those things up and and help out as much as I could.
• 38:34
  I'm sure this happens in other sports like basketball and
• 38:37
  baseball, but my only experiences are with football
• 38:40
  and track myself when you do, like in football, when you're in
• 38:43
  a specific position or in track when you're in a specific event
• 38:47
  and it's 20 years down the line. So you're not doing those events
• 38:49
  anymore or those positions when you're watching it on TV, when
• 38:53
  you're watching it in person. You look for little cues, little
• 38:57
  things that you did or little things that you wish you did or
• 38:59
  little things that you know the great ones did.
• 39:01
  So, so I got I was an offensive lineman.
• 39:03
  So when I watch football, I watch it very differently than
• 39:05
  probably how you watch it. I watch the offensive line like
• 39:07
  I know when it's a run versus a pass without even looking at the
• 39:09
  quarterback and I'm watching the right guard and what they're
• 39:12
  doing, things like that. Do you catch yourself doing that
• 39:14
  today with an effect because you're I know cover two and
• 39:17
  cover four. I know those terms but I was not
• 39:19
  a receiver or a DB, so I never, I don't even know what they
• 39:22
  mean. I know there's some coverage.
• 39:24
  You're actually looking at like how far off the DV is from the
• 39:26
  receiver and where the safety. I have no idea, actually.
• 39:29
  You're watching all that though, right?
• 39:31
  Yes, for the most part. Try not to be too into that
• 39:35
  part. I just try to enjoy the game,
• 39:36
  but sometimes I can look and see.
• 39:38
  Hey, the tight end is lined up here, the receiver is off the
• 39:41
  ball and this guy is, yeah, you know, you kind of look at it and
• 39:46
  especially if you have a friend of yours who.
• 39:49
  Think he knows football and try to figure it out.
• 39:54
  Hey man, let's not cover three. That's a place maybe.
• 39:57
  You know, man, free something, you know, so.
• 40:00
  I remember in fifth grade, I lived up in Indiana for one year
• 40:03
  in fifth grade and I knew nothing about football, but we
• 40:07
  would play, you know, called backyard football, you know in
• 40:10
  the, in the. But at the school, right.
• 40:13
  And I back to this how you're going to laugh at this, John,
• 40:15
  It's how dumb I was. People would yell out what the
• 40:18
  down and distance to 1st down was, but I had no clue what that
• 40:22
  meant, you know, So they'd be like, you know, second and eight
• 40:25
  and I'd be like, and I and I wanted to be, you know, I wanted
• 40:27
  to be like, I wanted to be one of the kid, you know?
• 40:30
  I remember yelling at like third and 25 and they was like, what
• 40:34
  are you talking about? I was like, no, no, it's not
• 40:37
  third and 25. Oh, OK, sorry.
• 40:39
  Hey, you got to fake until you make it right.
• 40:41
  Yeah, yeah, I faked it and and flunked it.
• 40:44
  I should have just shut up and be like, hey, hey, I should have
• 40:47
  just like a friend one to be like, hey, Johnny.
• 40:48
  So what does that mean? Don't tell anybody.
• 40:50
  But what does that mean? Can't be afraid to ask
• 40:54
  questions. Yeah, well, that's OK.
• 40:56
  As a fifth grader, I was definitely afraid of, you know,
• 40:58
  looking dumb in front of my peers.
• 40:59
  Absolutely. See, now I just record all my
• 41:02
  dumbness and tell everybody I don't care anymore.
• 41:06
  It's an experience with everything and.
• 41:08
  And same with track like you know I was a Sprint jumps at
• 41:11
  hurdles coach back in the day and so for like jumps I can't
• 41:14
  help. It's just it's a natural like I
• 41:17
  if I tried not to do it, I don't think I could When a long jumper
• 41:21
  or a triple jumper comes down or or a high jumper I automatically
• 41:25
  count their steps that you know the every other.
• 41:27
  So like for the high jumper it's like all right step one, Step 2.
• 41:29
  So you know all the it's a 4-5. You know I just can't.
• 41:32
  I haven't coached long jumpers, and I mean it's getting close
• 41:35
  ish to 20 years now and I still can't watch them without
• 41:39
  counting their steps. Yeah, I can't, you know, same,
• 41:44
  You know well, my athletes, I'll make sure that they're on the
• 41:47
  correct step. I try not to get it, you know,
• 41:52
  get that crazy over the step part.
• 41:55
  But definitely, excuse me, I'm always looking at steps and and.
• 42:02
  Just making sure, even with pole vault.
• 42:04
  I learned how to pole vault before I started coaching at CMO
• 42:08
  and I definitely count those steps.
• 42:12
  Those are the one steps cuz that's the only way I knew how
• 42:16
  to take off. Right.
• 42:18
  All right. Well, let's keep advancing.
• 42:20
  So you're at Saint Ogg's. You're coaching.
• 42:22
  I dare say the coaching bug has bitten.
• 42:25
  Like, you're like, this is now a transformation.
• 42:27
  Like, oh, OK, this is what I want to do in in.
• 42:31
  If that's true. Was it I want to be a high
• 42:34
  school coach. I want to be a college coach or
• 42:36
  I don't even know I, but I want to coach.
• 42:39
  I just wanted to coach and wherever that took me, I didn't
• 42:43
  have a plan at the time and. One day sitting down at the end
• 42:47
  of the season, I think Coach Haines had a bad season but had
• 42:52
  a good recruiting class coming in and I got a phone call and I
• 42:56
  was like, who's calling me from Cape Girardeau?
• 42:59
  Because I don't know. I I don't.
• 43:01
  I didn't delete his number, but I probably at the time went
• 43:04
  through several phones. But he was able to get in touch
• 43:07
  with me and said, hey, I got a graduate assistant spot here, if
• 43:12
  you want to take it, it's all yours.
• 43:15
  And I thought really hard about it, going back to Cape
• 43:18
  Girardeau, MO, Airport, 2 hours away.
• 43:24
  There's I had, I mean, returned to New Orleans, Purchase house
• 43:30
  and everything. Yeah.
• 43:32
  Shuttle down and and I thought long and hard about it and he
• 43:37
  was like you need you have to let me know August is coming up.
• 43:40
  I need to know and I got this football season coming up with
• 43:43
  some really good athletes and thought long and hard and said
• 43:48
  coach, I'm coming. Sold my house packed up.
• 43:53
  You went to Cape Girardeau. Now, you're not a typical GA,
• 43:56
  meaning you're not 2122, even 23 years old at this.
• 44:00
  Point Yeah, maybe. What a change.
• 44:05
  I mean, you're you're a career person.
• 44:07
  You've got a career in the marketing and advertising venue
• 44:11
  and then you go on to coach high school.
• 44:12
  But you like you're you're on a path and a GA path is much
• 44:17
  different. Path.
• 44:17
  What what did you go back to end up studying it?
• 44:21
  Was. Major in higher education
• 44:23
  athletic administration. Yeah.
• 44:27
  I was like since I'm on a college level and I had several
• 44:30
  talks with some of my colleagues who was thinking about making
• 44:33
  that move to coaching in college and and those guys went the
• 44:37
  football route and now I'm looking at him.
• 44:39
  Got one guy at Florida coaching running backs and receivers.
• 44:45
  Another guy at LSU coaching running backs and.
• 44:49
  Was like, well, I I love what I do.
• 44:51
  I love track and field. I've been in the same spot for
• 44:54
  like 15 years. You guys have moved around, but
• 44:56
  I'm sure you're making tons of money, so.
• 44:59
  I was going to ask you about that because I so how I got into
• 45:02
  coaching tracks. I played football on rain track
• 45:04
  I one day. So I went to college after a
• 45:07
  year. I was not happy.
• 45:09
  I wanted to leave, but I I wanted to do something back in
• 45:11
  sports, You know, I really. You know, that was my passion.
• 45:13
  That's what drew me back in with sports, right?
• 45:15
  And outside of our fraternity house, literally right outside
• 45:18
  the window, was the football field of a high school.
• 45:21
  And instead of calling the football coach to see if he
• 45:24
  needed help, I called the track coach.
• 45:25
  And that set me on my path to, you know, go all the way up to
• 45:28
  the SEC and every once in a while, I think.
• 45:33
  I wonder if I'd have called the football coach where that could
• 45:36
  be like a that could be like a not very good offensive
• 45:38
  coordinator in the PAC 12. And I've been making a lot of a
• 45:42
  lot of money. Like like, to your point, not
• 45:45
  just like more money. Those guys and gals are getting
• 45:48
  paid a lot more money than us. I don't necessarily agree with
• 45:51
  it. Don't necessarily disagree
• 45:52
  because there are some economic differences.
• 45:54
  But overall, I still think our track coaches should be making a
• 45:57
  lot more money than they make today.
• 45:58
  But I do every once in all wonders like, man, if I'd have
• 46:00
  just. Just, you know, ask for a
• 46:02
  different extension. Just talk to the football coach.
• 46:04
  What would that'll look like? I don't know.
• 46:06
  I don't. Know so.
• 46:08
  I love that you brought that up. I love it.
• 46:10
  So now you go back to, you go back to second home, you know,
• 46:14
  home is New Orleans, second home, Cape Girardeau there at
• 46:17
  Southeast Missouri University. Was it still southeast Missouri
• 46:21
  State? What was the name Southeast?
• 46:23
  Missouri State. There we go.
• 46:25
  Yeah. OK.
• 46:25
  That's right. So you're coaching.
• 46:28
  You're obviously taking grad classes.
• 46:30
  Is it set now? Is there like, no stopping you?
• 46:33
  You're going to be a coach? Or is there still like, no, I
• 46:36
  could still. I can do this two years and I
• 46:39
  can go back to a new station. No stopping, no stopping.
• 46:42
  It's. Full go.
• 46:43
  It's full go after my first year, I said.
• 46:47
  You know what, let me only have a year left to find a job.
• 46:54
  You know, Cuz Coach Hanes, he didn't have a third coach.
• 46:56
  He would just get G A's to fill that spot.
• 47:00
  Who's on that staff with me? Coach Hines just recently at
• 47:07
  Louisville. Eric.
• 47:10
  Yeah. I forgot he was at CMO.
• 47:12
  Yeah, that's right. Beth was at CMO as well, cuz
• 47:16
  Coach Haines would talk about all his assistant coaches are
• 47:20
  now head coaches and I think Beth was at Penn State here now.
• 47:25
  So that's right. Yeah, you're a head coach that
• 47:28
  way. Next time you see Beth tell her
• 47:30
  coach, Haines say. He's proud of all of us.
• 47:32
  So. Man, yeah.
• 47:35
  Somewhere in Arizona, I believe and and you know so.
• 47:39
  Coach, Coach Hines is now the distance coach at Indiana
• 47:42
  University and we just had the new head coach of Indiana at
• 47:48
  Bethia on the podcast. And then Beth is also a Gil
• 47:51
  podcast alum now at the University of Connecticut.
• 47:53
  So yeah, boy, that's. And you know, no shock that
• 47:56
  Coach Haines has a coaching tree like that.
• 48:00
  No shock at all? Exactly.
• 48:02
  That's awesome. I love that.
• 48:04
  So, but yeah, good. You know, second year I would
• 48:08
  take my resume everywhere I went, I mean.
• 48:12
  The track meets. The track meets, I had my
• 48:14
  backpack, I had my resume in there and had a really good
• 48:18
  group of jumpers. And so you know we were doing a
• 48:22
  good job and and and had some decent hurdlers.
• 48:26
  So I just kept my resume with me and every time I had an
• 48:30
  opportunity to talk to a coach you know we were talking Aaron
• 48:36
  Tucker or a fraternity brother of mine who.
• 48:40
  Ran at Florida, we would see each other at meets and he's
• 48:42
  like John, go talk to this person, go talk.
• 48:44
  You know we were just doing our thing and so but none of that
• 48:52
  panned out and eventually Coach Hanes said hey man, I my old
• 48:59
  stomping grounds, there's a position available and a coach
• 49:01
  called me asking me if I had anyone.
• 49:04
  He wants someone to take over and and and get him a sprints
• 49:07
  program. And I ended up at Belmont
• 49:10
  University. Oh, is that right?
• 49:12
  I didn't know you're at Belmont. I love that campus.
• 49:15
  I love the way almost like circular, like, you know,
• 49:18
  there's the courtyard in the middle and all the classrooms.
• 49:21
  I love that campus. Yeah, it has changed
• 49:25
  dramatically. I mean, it has changed so.
• 49:28
  It's still I bet what hasn't changed is all the hills.
• 49:31
  Now the hills are there. Yeah, that's what they got to
• 49:33
  do. I remember where I parked in the
• 49:35
  wrong spot. I had a meeting down the hill,
• 49:36
  which means I had to get back up the hill after.
• 49:39
  I remember that. Yeah.
• 49:40
  So Seth hired me and and said man, I I our AD at the time he
• 49:48
  he was I think he was the AD at Murray State when they had a
• 49:53
  pretty good program and he was tired of seeing distance runners
• 49:58
  going to. Drake relays and all that stuff.
• 50:04
  He's like coach, you can't like at conference, I don't want to
• 50:08
  see my distance runners running a four by 1:00.
• 50:10
  So I need a better. I need a program.
• 50:12
  So that's the story. Seth told me and had an
• 50:16
  opportunity to do my thing. I was going to go there and get
• 50:21
  all jumpers, but ended up saying let me make this program out of,
• 50:27
  you know, thinking about Coach Haines and.
• 50:29
  And how to win championships and and we got there and and got two
• 50:35
  of the best athletes in the state of Tennessee, went down to
• 50:41
  New Orleans, picked up a few girls from down there and put a
• 50:45
  team together. What was it like going from, you
• 50:50
  know? I take nothing away from a GA
• 50:53
  You are doing a lot of work. Plus you are still taking
• 50:55
  classes for sure. And I'm not even on the side
• 50:57
  that you got to pass classes and and do well there.
• 51:01
  But GA coaching, even at I'm going to say I want to be
• 51:05
  careful here, even at the smallest school.
• 51:06
  And what I mean by that is a school where they really rely on
• 51:09
  their GA's. Like it's not just the
• 51:11
  proverbial, you know, holding a stopwatch or clipboard or
• 51:14
  whatever like you are, you are definitely coaching.
• 51:16
  It's still different. Than full time coaching.
• 51:20
  How was that transition You go to Belmont now there, you know,
• 51:23
  no more classes. It all runs through you.
• 51:26
  There's additional responsibilities that get put on
• 51:29
  to you. How was that transition of like
• 51:31
  you you went from high school coaching, which I mean that's
• 51:33
  I'm not taking away from that. There's a lot of
• 51:34
  responsibilities and things you got to do there to GA ING to
• 51:38
  your first full time assistants job.
• 51:40
  Well, Coach Hanks prepared me because he just gave me all the
• 51:44
  duties. And I took it and ran with it.
• 51:47
  You know, being that I was a little older in grad school, it
• 51:51
  was a little different for me. You know, I took it serious.
• 51:54
  I didn't play around, so classes, my work was always
• 51:58
  done, and so I didn't have that issue.
• 52:01
  So it wasn't a big deal. But he gave me the keys and I
• 52:05
  ran with it. And I was ready for my next
• 52:09
  opportunity because I was prepared.
• 52:12
  You know, I think, I think it was 98 when I was in New
• 52:17
  Orleans, but I think I was kind of doing like I said, going to
• 52:22
  my high school while I was working.
• 52:25
  And Boo Schoch, Schneider, he was at ULL.
• 52:31
  When I was coming out of high school, had some really good
• 52:33
  triple jumpers there, but I told him I was a football player, not
• 52:36
  a track athlete and full circle Boo and Mike Corn was doing a
• 52:44
  level one. I think it was 9998 somewhere
• 52:47
  around there and I think it was three people in the classroom
• 52:51
  and I had to sit through level one with two other people with
• 52:58
  Boo and Mike Corn. And it was a lot of information.
• 53:03
  I thought I knew track and field.
• 53:06
  I was able to practice it a little bit in high school, got
• 53:10
  to see Mo and I was a little bit more refined at, you know what,
• 53:15
  I what I learned. But I would reach out to those
• 53:18
  guys, Hey, dealing with this, I have this situation.
• 53:21
  So I started early on reaching out, you know, people who have
• 53:26
  more experienced coaching than I had.
• 53:29
  And that's my foundation where I got organized to kind of
• 53:34
  understand, OK, here's what my jumpers are going to do.
• 53:37
  Here's what my hurdlers are going to do.
• 53:38
  So at SEMO, I was able to experiment.
• 53:42
  In high school, I tell them I screwed up a lot of athletes in
• 53:46
  high school. I was just experimenting, didn't
• 53:49
  know what I was really doing. Just as a an athlete, I never
• 53:54
  was really told what to do. Just my athletic ability.
• 54:01
  I went out there and jumped. I would watch other athletes
• 54:04
  because coach Haines didn't have time to coach me.
• 54:06
  So. So we coached ourselves a little
• 54:08
  bit and and but again, just getting that coaching education
• 54:14
  at an early stage in my coaching career because before that I was
• 54:21
  just doing stuff. Let's go do this.
• 54:24
  I remember my high school coach telling us to do this.
• 54:27
  Do that, do that. I had long jumpers doing 6
• 54:30
  hundreds and all kind of stuff, so I screwed a lot of kids up.
• 54:36
  You know, John, again I sit in a very enviable seat and I get to
• 54:42
  hear 200 plus coaches journeys and I'm telling you what all the
• 54:48
  best ones all and if you're on this podcast, you want the best
• 54:50
  one, so all the best ones there. There's a big difference
• 54:54
  between. The best ones and the ones that
• 54:56
  are just getting along, the humble ones and the ones who
• 54:59
  have a bad ego and almost to a tee, the good ones with a lot of
• 55:03
  humility say, oh man, I I can't believe I used to do this My
• 55:08
  first year, my second year. You know, if I ever see those
• 55:12
  athletes, I tell them, like, I'm so sorry, like, oh man, I didn't
• 55:15
  know what I was doing. So I I love that you share like,
• 55:17
  oh man, what was that? Six hundreds.
• 55:19
  For long? What was I thinking?
• 55:22
  But to that point? I believe, This is why I think
• 55:26
  personally that as much as amazing things are happening
• 55:30
  today in track and field on all levels, by the way, high school
• 55:34
  unbelievable, collegiately crazy elites, unbelievable.
• 55:39
  I think we're kind of in a first dawning of what is really about
• 55:43
  to happen here in the next 10 to 20 years because to your point,
• 55:47
  you nailed it when we first start coaching.
• 55:50
  Generally, we fall back to how we were coached.
• 55:53
  That's all we know. It's like, oh, coached.
• 55:55
  And we didn't pay attention to why maybe coach was or was not
• 55:58
  doing things. So we just.
• 55:59
  I don't know. I remember a coach saying to run
• 56:01
  a 600. All right, OK, guys, guess what
• 56:03
  we're doing today? We're running 600.
• 56:04
  I don't know why, by the way, I have no idea how it actually
• 56:07
  plays into what we're going to do tomorrow.
• 56:08
  And I don't know what we're going to do tomorrow until I get
• 56:09
  there. But we'll figure it out.
• 56:12
  We we fall back, right, until we get to some coaching education,
• 56:16
  whether it's formally like a Level 1 or informally
• 56:19
  peer-to-peer. And then we start like, oh, wait
• 56:22
  a minute, why? Why are we doing 6?
• 56:25
  OK, that's scratch that. We're not doing that anymore.
• 56:28
  Oh, and here's what they are trying to do and here's why they
• 56:30
  did this the next day. OK, well, I'm going to do this
• 56:32
  the next day. And you start linking your
• 56:34
  actual style together there. So I just applaud you for having
• 56:38
  that humility of like, Oh yeah. I I screwed up my first call.
• 56:41
  I got screwed up so many athletes.
• 56:42
  Oh my gosh. I can't believe that.
• 56:44
  And to have the humility to go to a a level one and you know
• 56:47
  you might have gone to maybe the best one.
• 56:48
  Anyone that has Boost Xnader there you you walk out knowing
• 56:52
  how to coach almost every event at that point because that guy's
• 56:55
  a genius. It was almost like one-on-one
• 56:57
  because it were only three or four people in the class.
• 57:00
  Yeah, I can't imagine how. Nerve racking that might be,
• 57:04
  especially if you don't know. But like, no, Like, personally,
• 57:07
  no Boo because you're sitting there and you're like, OK, this
• 57:09
  guy's really smart. Oh, by the way, there's no place
• 57:11
  to hide. There's only two other people
• 57:14
  here, so I'm going to have to answer questions and be
• 57:17
  interactive here. That would be nerve racking for
• 57:20
  me. No, it was awesome because you
• 57:23
  know it, it was just a lot of one-on-one every question that I
• 57:27
  had, he answered. A lot of demonstrations, a lot
• 57:32
  of video. We just, I don't think it's set
• 57:35
  up because I did a level one at VCUA couple years ago and it was
• 57:41
  more personal like my level one I brought some guests in and
• 57:45
  they talk slides and everything, but my level one was really
• 57:49
  interesting because I think that's, I don't know when level
• 57:53
  one started, but somewhere around 98.
• 57:58
  It just wasn't as popular cuz I didn't know anything about it so
• 58:02
  that that was a really good opportunity for me to learn from
• 58:06
  someone that I knew cuz I remember his triple jumpers
• 58:09
  doing kicking my butt at Drake Relays when he was at ULL so.
• 58:16
  Definitely someone that I paid attention to and that wasn't
• 58:19
  intimidated, just was tired cuz it was long and you didn't wanna
• 58:23
  fall asleep in there. Yeah, you can't even like, nod
• 58:26
  off, right? Yeah, it's like, I saw you,
• 58:28
  John. You know, we learned when we had
• 58:32
  Boo shecks later on the podcast. And if you're listening and you
• 58:35
  haven't listened to it, it's by far.
• 58:37
  The number one podcast in listens, downloads and we've
• 58:40
  ever had. You got to go listen to it.
• 58:42
  But we learned on that episode that he was actually more of a
• 58:46
  football guy. He was a defensive coordinator.
• 58:48
  Did you get a chance to chop it up on football talk with him?
• 58:51
  Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
• 58:52
  Nice. He was a defensive, Yeah, he was
• 58:55
  a football guy and then went to high school and did his thing,
• 58:59
  strength and conditioning and all that stuff.
• 59:01
  Oh yeah. When when he I did not.
• 59:04
  You know I've known Boo for a long time.
• 59:06
  He's a mentor of mine and I didn't know about the football
• 59:09
  stuff. But when he was talking about,
• 59:10
  he's like, yeah, I was defensive coordinator.
• 59:12
  I was like, oh, that makes so much sense.
• 59:13
  You know from what I can think of a defensive coordinator has
• 59:15
  to know where everybody's going to go and you know all the
• 59:17
  routes and what are you how you going to attack it.
• 59:19
  I was like oh that seems like exactly who you are.
• 59:21
  Boo. Like I I can see you like
• 59:22
  formalizing the the the plan of attack.
• 59:25
  So it just made so much sense when he told us that.
• 59:27
  I have to take him up on going frogging one time, you know.
• 59:33
  I'm a Louisiana guy, but I don't think.
• 59:36
  About someone in Maine right now going, what is he talking about?
• 59:39
  Like, it's a it's a Southern thing and it's a very much so a
• 59:42
  Louisiana thing? Absolutely.
• 59:44
  Absolutely, Okay. So two years of grad school,
• 59:47
  Simo, and now you are the assistant coach of Belmont.
• 59:50
  Now, I've been at guilt for 17 years and I can't remember when
• 59:54
  it was, but it was during my time here.
• 59:56
  Early in my time here, we helped build Belmont's track and field
• 1:00:00
  facility. Were you?
• 1:00:00
  You were there before the facility.
• 1:00:02
  I was there before that I was part of the panel to go out to
• 1:00:07
  these high schools, the community, and tell them about
• 1:00:11
  why we need a track. Because we had no track at
• 1:00:17
  Belmont go sneak into Vanderbilt and and Tennessee State and I
• 1:00:22
  remember coach cheese burro sauce out there in the cold one
• 1:00:25
  day and say come on up here baby and and come inside and practice
• 1:00:29
  on this indoor track. So yeah but soon as soon as I
• 1:00:35
  left they and they built that track for.
• 1:00:39
  Belmont and probably a really good thing they did.
• 1:00:42
  Yeah, they did a great job. The locations, you know, you're
• 1:00:45
  very landlocked where you are at Belmont, so it's off.
• 1:00:47
  Little bit off campus, but not terrible.
• 1:00:49
  But it's a beautiful, beautiful facility.
• 1:00:50
  You know, there's lots of coaches listening on all levels,
• 1:00:53
  high school and college, who unfortunately don't have a
• 1:00:56
  facility, which is ludicrous to me.
• 1:00:59
  We would never have a basketball.
• 1:01:00
  I've yet to hear of a basketball coach that has a basketball team
• 1:01:03
  that doesn't have a basketball facility.
• 1:01:05
  Crazy. But for some reason we allow
• 1:01:07
  this in track and field. We've got to stop that.
• 1:01:10
  But can you walk us through what were some of the things that you
• 1:01:14
  had to do differently than, you know, you have a facility now
• 1:01:17
  here at VCU, so you can, you know, kind of the things you had
• 1:01:19
  to do differently kind of get, you know, just bring some value
• 1:01:22
  to our listeners that don't have a facility.
• 1:01:24
  What were some of the cheat codes, if you will, besides just
• 1:01:28
  breaking into someone's facility and using that track?
• 1:01:32
  Well, Tennessee has a lot of. Land lot of hills.
• 1:01:37
  A lot of different things. I would pack kids up in my Chevy
• 1:01:41
  Trailblazer. Whoever couldn't fit in the
• 1:01:44
  front seat back seat, some kind of way to got into the back.
• 1:01:48
  They they have stories about it that they tell me and I don't
• 1:01:51
  remember them quite well but we would load up and get.
• 1:01:55
  I met when I was at the NCAA championships.
• 1:01:58
  One of my former athletes at at at Belmont Stephen Register.
• 1:02:02
  I think he took over at. University of Texas at Commerce
• 1:02:08
  I don't want to say the wrong name but he's we met, went and
• 1:02:12
  got some briskets and and telling me about his experience
• 1:02:16
  and him not having track and he was trying to pick my brain.
• 1:02:20
  It's like, coach, how did you figure all that stuff out?
• 1:02:23
  I'm like, well, I mean I wasn't going to be stopped.
• 1:02:28
  Whatever I needed to do whatever grass or.
• 1:02:33
  Concrete that I found I was going to figure out what to do
• 1:02:35
  with it and that's what we did now.
• 1:02:37
  We traveled around the city and probably ran on some grass we
• 1:02:42
  should not have run have access to and we just we got it done
• 1:02:50
  out of that group ended up having a young two young ladies
• 1:02:54
  to qualify for the they don't call it under 20 they they
• 1:03:00
  didn't call it under 20 but you as juniors and.
• 1:03:03
  And how did we do it? I have no clue.
• 1:03:06
  We just figured it out and and found ways to do it.
• 1:03:12
  But I had a plan since I knew I didn't have a track.
• 1:03:15
  We just we did a lot of two hundreds, a lot of one 50s on
• 1:03:19
  grass. We did a lot of 400 meter
• 1:03:21
  hardways and things to figure it out.
• 1:03:27
  But I wasn't going to let not having a track stop me from
• 1:03:30
  being successful. My experience tells me that that
• 1:03:35
  type of attitude of, you know, nothing's going to stop me, I'll
• 1:03:40
  figure it out. I may have to figure it out
• 1:03:43
  while we're doing it, but I'm going to figure it out.
• 1:03:45
  It's typically it's it's it's one part innate.
• 1:03:49
  Like there's some people who have that and there's some
• 1:03:51
  people who don't. God makes us all differently.
• 1:03:53
  That's okay. But for those who have it
• 1:03:56
  innate, it's it's typically not just something that naturally
• 1:03:59
  comes out, it has to be observed.
• 1:04:04
  Can you think is there a, a family member, a teacher that
• 1:04:09
  you observe that and you're like, OK, you know, so and so,
• 1:04:12
  like I remember so and so didn't let me fail at reading, you
• 1:04:15
  know, thinking about teaching type of aspect.
• 1:04:17
  So I'm going to figure it out and I'm not, I'm not going to
• 1:04:19
  fail these kids on my team here at Belmont.
• 1:04:22
  Yeah, well, we didn't have a track at Saint August.
• 1:04:25
  You know anything about New Orleans.
• 1:04:26
  The high schools don't do not have tracks.
• 1:04:28
  So we have to travel and we all practice at the same facility at
• 1:04:33
  TAG Garmley Stadium. The 1992 was it.
• 1:04:38
  NCAA championships were held there in the Olympic trials in
• 1:04:42
  96. They built us a practice track
• 1:04:45
  and in the main stadium the regular tracks.
• 1:04:49
  So most, most of the high schools.
• 1:04:52
  Practice at tag, normally practice track, so we had to
• 1:04:55
  figure it out. So if we couldn't get to the
• 1:04:57
  track, we did stuff on the yard and found some grass there.
• 1:05:03
  So it was just something we that I knew I had to do.
• 1:05:07
  You know, I knew going in they didn't have a track and that
• 1:05:09
  didn't bother me. I just wanted an opportunity to
• 1:05:13
  coach. I love it.
• 1:05:14
  So it was kind of. It was in you.
• 1:05:16
  You had to how you had to. You how you became a successful
• 1:05:19
  high school football and track athletes.
• 1:05:21
  Like. All right, well, I've done this
• 1:05:23
  playbook. Now I just get to do it as the
• 1:05:24
  coach. Yeah, we we didn't have our own
• 1:05:26
  stadium. We didn't have our own football
• 1:05:29
  training facility. We had a weight room and that
• 1:05:31
  was good. But that's how we that's how I
• 1:05:34
  learned. That's how we had to do it.
• 1:05:36
  So going in, I knew at at SEMO I had a weight room right next to
• 1:05:40
  the track, not very many par five schools.
• 1:05:45
  I have a weight room, like right next to the track, so I was a
• 1:05:48
  little spoiled. But at the same time I had to go
• 1:05:51
  get my hands dirty and figure it out.
• 1:05:55
  So again, I knew that one thing. If I recruited some of the best
• 1:05:58
  athletes in the state, I'd have an opportunity.
• 1:06:03
  How I convinced them to come to Belmont with no track, I have no
• 1:06:07
  clue, but I deal with crap. Because that was going to be my
• 1:06:11
  next question. Persistence, just being, you
• 1:06:17
  know, communicating and just not over promising.
• 1:06:22
  Just letting them know, here's what I can do, here's what I can
• 1:06:25
  help you do. And you know that's how it
• 1:06:30
  worked. One of the one of the young
• 1:06:32
  ladies, Seth already knew her high school coach and I kind of
• 1:06:38
  had an end. In, but it wasn't sure because
• 1:06:43
  she was pretty good. And I ended up getting that one
• 1:06:47
  young lady which set it off. And I started getting others to
• 1:06:51
  kind of join in and we went from last in the a sun to 2nd.
• 1:06:57
  We just couldn't beat Jacksonville.
• 1:07:01
  Greg's headed. Yeah, many, many of people have
• 1:07:05
  said that exact same thing. It's like, yeah, hey, we got
• 1:07:07
  second. That was good trust.
• 1:07:11
  Me but we gave him a run for his money on the on the Sprint side
• 1:07:15
  and and definitely on the distance.
• 1:07:16
  We just didn't have a full team with throwers and and and that's
• 1:07:21
  where I found you know we have to have speed, power.
• 1:07:24
  You have to have throws if your if your goal is to win a
• 1:07:27
  conference championship you know we like we can't you know even
• 1:07:32
  William and Mary throws distance where they used to.
• 1:07:35
  Take over the CAA, but you have to have some type of speed
• 1:07:39
  power. So I knew we had to get
• 1:07:42
  something there, speed power and make sure we were, you know,
• 1:07:50
  accomplishing what the AD wanted.
• 1:07:53
  He wanted to send the team to Drake Relays that can compete.
• 1:07:58
  So Seth said, hey man, go get you some jumpers, whatever you
• 1:08:02
  want to do to coach. I just, I said, you know, I'm
• 1:08:06
  gonna go. The ad told me he wanna compete
• 1:08:10
  at Drake Relays, cuz that's what he's used to doing.
• 1:08:13
  So that's what I'm gonna do, and that's what we did.
• 1:08:18
  That's awesome. So good amount of success.
• 1:08:21
  You definitely improved the team there at Belmont.
• 1:08:24
  How many years and what was next?
• 1:08:26
  Was that bail bond from 2005 to 2008?
• 1:08:29
  And I can, I think we're in Arkansas at the NCAA
• 1:08:35
  championships. Was that the region meet?
• 1:08:38
  No, I can't remember. I can't remember.
• 1:08:41
  But again, I have my resume with me at all times.
• 1:08:47
  We were either at the region, East region or no.
• 1:08:52
  I think that was the NCAA championships Coach Cheese
• 1:08:55
  Borough. Introduced me to what's her I
• 1:09:00
  can't her at Ohio State. Here in Dennis.
• 1:09:05
  Yeah, Dennis. And she said.
• 1:09:10
  Where's your resume? And I pulled it out my backpack
• 1:09:12
  and I gave it to her and we were just talking.
• 1:09:18
  And then I. Someone told me that, hey,
• 1:09:22
  there's a job available at Virginia Commonwealth
• 1:09:25
  University. Had never heard of VCU, knew
• 1:09:31
  nothing about the school, did some research and I applied.
• 1:09:36
  Got a call back. I don't know if Coach Dennis was
• 1:09:40
  going to reach out to me or anything, I don't know.
• 1:09:43
  But I was prepared. Because I had my resume, I was
• 1:09:47
  looking. I was, you know, I was always
• 1:09:49
  ready and I got the interview and ended up getting a job at
• 1:09:54
  VCU. Was this for the head job?
• 1:09:57
  The head job. Okay, hold on now.
• 1:10:01
  So my favorite question to ask any coach when they get their
• 1:10:03
  first head job was were you prepared?
• 1:10:06
  But my man, you've had how many years were you at at Belmont?
• 1:10:10
  3. 2005 to 2008. So your experience is 3 years at
• 1:10:14
  Belmont, a GA position at CMO and high school coaching at
• 1:10:18
  Saint Ogg's, and you get the head job at VCU?
• 1:10:23
  Yes. What was that like?
• 1:10:25
  And what I mean by that is certainly especially because of
• 1:10:29
  how Coach Haines Homes that treated you, but you know,
• 1:10:34
  allowed you to do a lot of things.
• 1:10:35
  So you were prepared to do a lot of things.
• 1:10:37
  But, and you now know this after, you know, a decade plus
• 1:10:41
  as the head job there at VCU, there are way more things that
• 1:10:44
  you have to do as the head coach.
• 1:10:45
  What was that like stepping in as you continue to like?
• 1:10:48
  I almost had to. I feel like it was like almost
• 1:10:49
  like every day you had to learn like, oh, oh, wait, I got to do
• 1:10:51
  this too. Oh, OK And the next day, oh,
• 1:10:52
  wait, I got to do this too. And I know you're, you certainly
• 1:10:56
  have the pluck of like, well, I'll figure it out and I'll,
• 1:10:57
  I'll get her done. But that's a big job at this
• 1:11:01
  stage of your career. I feel that everywhere I went,
• 1:11:08
  they prepared me for the job. But you hadn't been to many
• 1:11:11
  places, John, I'm with you. But.
• 1:11:14
  Yeah, you know, the experience and the people that I work with
• 1:11:19
  at at Belmont, you know, Seth was more of a cross country guy.
• 1:11:22
  So in track and field guy here, he thought, man, you know what,
• 1:11:25
  they shouldn't have an indoor season.
• 1:11:27
  These kids run too much and you know.
• 1:11:30
  That's my guy, though. But again, I took those kids on
• 1:11:34
  the road. I had to do per diem.
• 1:11:39
  I had to get hotels, I had to do all that stuff and and I took on
• 1:11:43
  that responsibility and when I got the head job at VCUI, made
• 1:11:50
  phone calls, a call. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:52
  Okay. That's another one of my
• 1:11:53
  favorite questions. Yeah.
• 1:11:54
  Who did you call? Who did you lean?
• 1:11:55
  I'm like, all right, I applied for this thing and I got it.
• 1:11:59
  Help me. I think Eric Jenkins and I were
• 1:12:02
  at at the same time getting a head coaching position.
• 1:12:07
  That's a good one to call, absolutely.
• 1:12:10
  We that's my guy we we came back and forth.
• 1:12:16
  I I just called individuals that I can count on.
• 1:12:19
  I called my former boss at the news station because he was a
• 1:12:24
  general manager and you know I called my high school.
• 1:12:29
  I reached out to Coach Haynes and he was like, just do it.
• 1:12:33
  So I just, I can't remember everyone I called, but I knew I
• 1:12:39
  wasn't gonna fail because I had too many people that I could
• 1:12:42
  reach out to. Yeah, I wasn't afraid to ask
• 1:12:45
  questions. I didn't know it all.
• 1:12:46
  So I just reached out to a bunch of different people and.
• 1:12:52
  The staff at VCU was very helpful because they went
• 1:12:56
  through three or four different coaches at the time. 1 coach
• 1:13:00
  quit right in the middle of the season.
• 1:13:02
  It was they had an idea of who they wanted.
• 1:13:06
  They were going to hire a female coach because they already had a
• 1:13:10
  men's coach at the time. And for the women, they had
• 1:13:14
  several coaches to quit or something happened to allow them
• 1:13:19
  to go somewhere else. And I went into that interview
• 1:13:23
  and I was prepared. You know, I had my packet, gave
• 1:13:27
  it to everyone and all the successes.
• 1:13:32
  I had a lot of business stuff in there about, you know,
• 1:13:37
  fundraising ideas. And I had just a whole portfolio
• 1:13:43
  and I ended up giving that to. Althea and a couple other people
• 1:13:47
  who were at the time looking but I shared and I Tamra who's at
• 1:13:53
  LSU, she helped me out a lot and and just a bunch of different
• 1:13:58
  people. I I reached out to and I just
• 1:14:01
  compiled all this information and I was ready.
• 1:14:03
  I was, I was ready. Now each school has different
• 1:14:06
  different operating systems and how you do things and luckily
• 1:14:10
  for me at at VCU when we first started everything was on paper.
• 1:14:15
  I had a lot of work to do, but I I could get through it.
• 1:14:19
  Hey, compliance, I need help with this.
• 1:14:22
  And and you know, I wasn't afraid to ask questions.
• 1:14:26
  That was, that's the biggest thing.
• 1:14:28
  I wasn't afraid to ask questions and I wasn't afraid to fail.
• 1:14:31
  You know, I was like, I'm a new guy.
• 1:14:34
  I'm, I'm new. They know I'm a new head coach.
• 1:14:37
  They're putting their trust in me.
• 1:14:38
  So somebody has to help me. So I figured it out.
• 1:14:43
  To help our listeners, I always like to point out when our guest
• 1:14:48
  name someone that's been a podcast guest before because
• 1:14:51
  they also have amazing story. So John here recently said
• 1:14:54
  Althea Thomas, that's one of our top ten ever podcast episodes.
• 1:14:58
  You got to go listen to her story, it's amazing.
• 1:15:00
  She's amazing. Karen Dennis.
• 1:15:03
  Left me speechless in the middle of our interview when she was at
• 1:15:07
  Ohio State, now retired. I'm so happy for her.
• 1:15:10
  And then Eric Jenkins, head coach at South Florida now has
• 1:15:14
  also been on the show here recently within the last
• 1:15:15
  probably six months or so. And again, what an amazing
• 1:15:18
  journey. So three people that he's
• 1:15:21
  mentioned here that you got to go back.
• 1:15:22
  Besides, you know, we also mentioned Boosheck, Snyder and
• 1:15:24
  some other guys and gals. You got to go back and listen to
• 1:15:26
  the backlog here of the Guild Connections podcast.
• 1:15:29
  John I'm curious what was I love that you have a posture of of of
• 1:15:35
  a network of a of a circle of people that you can call and ask
• 1:15:40
  questions. I I love that posture.
• 1:15:42
  We don't celebrate that enough. We we we tend to over
• 1:15:46
  romanticize the person who does it on their own, puts the weight
• 1:15:50
  of the world on their shoulders and just plows ahead.
• 1:15:53
  And and there's parts of your life that you need to do that in
• 1:15:56
  but I I I think it's more it says more about a person that
• 1:15:59
  they can call someone that they can humble themselves and say I
• 1:16:03
  don't know what to do here can you help me.
• 1:16:05
  So I love that I want to give you props for that out of the
• 1:16:08
  people that you called and and I love and we got to explore this
• 1:16:11
  little more that you called your former manager station manager
• 1:16:15
  as well. That's unique.
• 1:16:16
  I love that maybe it's because you're like well that's all I
• 1:16:18
  knew you know that's who I had a phone call with.
• 1:16:21
  So I love these life lines. What was, you know, someone is
• 1:16:24
  listening right now and they're going to be a head coach
• 1:16:27
  tomorrow. You know, what was the best
• 1:16:30
  piece of advice that you got when you were collecting as much
• 1:16:35
  help as possible during this first year of your rookie head
• 1:16:38
  coaching year? You know, just be yourself.
• 1:16:43
  But be confident at being yourself.
• 1:16:46
  You know you have to be who you are.
• 1:16:49
  Don't try to be like. Coach Haynes, don't try and be
• 1:16:53
  like Coach Payne or any of the coaches that influenced me.
• 1:16:57
  Just be yourself. So that was the main thing.
• 1:17:01
  I was, you know, I'm going to, I'm a proactive person in
• 1:17:06
  nature, so I'm going to take those steps, ask questions.
• 1:17:11
  And I don't think asking questions are bad things.
• 1:17:14
  Sometimes you think you're overwhelming someone, so there
• 1:17:18
  are people out there who love to help, you know?
• 1:17:20
  Feel good when you ask them questions or ask them to help
• 1:17:24
  you out. So I just took it step forward
• 1:17:28
  and the best advice was just be confident at being who you are.
• 1:17:33
  I'll try and be anyone other than who you are because they'll
• 1:17:37
  figure it out. You know these the student
• 1:17:40
  athletes that you recruit, the administration, who hired you.
• 1:17:45
  Just be yourself and and but be confident.
• 1:17:49
  You know who you are. I think that's wildly important
• 1:17:53
  and I and I take it down to the recruiting side of it because
• 1:17:56
  sometimes as coaches we think we have to morph ourself into who
• 1:18:01
  the athlete. Wants us to be for recruiting
• 1:18:04
  because you know we're recruiting for we we need
• 1:18:06
  recruits, right. We need the athletes that we
• 1:18:08
  believe will help our program. So we want to sometimes we want
• 1:18:11
  to be whatever they need during the recruiting process.
• 1:18:13
  So they'll say yes and sign and get there and then we'll all
• 1:18:15
  figure it out through their 40 years.
• 1:18:16
  Right. But to your point there is when
• 1:18:19
  you get on campus and now you are who you are because you're
• 1:18:22
  there on a daily basis. You as the coach, well those
• 1:18:24
  kids are you know if you if you were someone else to them.
• 1:18:27
  It's like, wait a minute. This ain't the John I met in my
• 1:18:29
  house. This ain't the John on my visit.
• 1:18:31
  This ain't cool to say, The guy that I this ain't the guy I
• 1:18:33
  signed up for. And that's how we get more
• 1:18:36
  people transferring. That's how we get more people
• 1:18:39
  who don't buy into the program. Maybe they stay for four years.
• 1:18:42
  I don't. I don't know what's worse, a kid
• 1:18:44
  who transfers out of your program or a kid who stays but
• 1:18:47
  never buys in. I'm not convinced.
• 1:18:50
  The kid who stays is the worst situation for both, by the way,
• 1:18:53
  the the athlete and and the coach here.
• 1:18:55
  So you know, we talked a lot about the transfer portal and
• 1:18:58
  how easy is the to transfer and you know kids quit on the first
• 1:19:03
  bad adversity. I don't believe any of that to
• 1:19:04
  be honest with you. I don't think any of that has
• 1:19:06
  changed. I think social media and
• 1:19:08
  communication has allowed us to see more of it, but I do think.
• 1:19:12
  That more kids have been able to move to the places where they
• 1:19:15
  can be more comfortable, whether it's athletically, academically,
• 1:19:17
  socially, etcetera. But if, if, as if as us, as
• 1:19:22
  coaches can be, to your point, be ourselves, be comfortable in
• 1:19:25
  who we are, be confident who we are, we're going to attract the
• 1:19:29
  right kids. To our program and I think we'll
• 1:19:32
  have less transfers that way. Now that don't hear me say that
• 1:19:35
  I think you know I know right now someone's listening is like,
• 1:19:37
  well, Oh my God coach so and so just had 20 transfers that must
• 1:19:40
  he must be thinking he's a bad person.
• 1:19:41
  No no I'm not saying it cuz they're I think kids transfer
• 1:19:44
  for a lot of right reasons. Again academics.
• 1:19:47
  Socially, their own ego. That's Okay.
• 1:19:50
  We're talking about 20 year old kids here for crying out loud.
• 1:19:53
  So I I don't blame a coach at all.
• 1:19:56
  Until a coach does something that needs to be blamed like you
• 1:19:58
  know, it's abusive or what not. And those people need to find
• 1:20:01
  different careers. Any counseling is what they
• 1:20:02
  need. Coaches who do that.
• 1:20:03
  But so I love that piece of advice that you got that was
• 1:20:06
  like hey man, be who you are. Be confident in who you are as
• 1:20:09
  well. I'm curious to go back.
• 1:20:11
  So one I want to ask about what did the manager, the station
• 1:20:14
  manager? Because you know that person's
• 1:20:16
  not a a coach. They're not a college.
• 1:20:18
  Coach, they're not. Maybe they weren't even a track
• 1:20:20
  person, I bet, cuz I think it's hard for us to get out of our
• 1:20:23
  own box. But here's the way you're
• 1:20:25
  getting out of your own. But it's one thing to ask
• 1:20:26
  another track coach, hey, what did you do when you're first
• 1:20:28
  head coach? And there's a lot of value in
• 1:20:29
  that, but I'm curious what the station manager, I feel like
• 1:20:33
  there'd probably be some real Nuggets that we don't tend to
• 1:20:35
  think about. It was more or less about
• 1:20:37
  contracts. That's great, Yeah.
• 1:20:41
  You've seen a lot of contracts in your life and.
• 1:20:44
  You know at that time VCU wasn't set up to, I'm not going to say
• 1:20:49
  set up, but I had a one year contract as a head coach and I
• 1:20:55
  had never heard of that because all the advice is you know make
• 1:20:57
  sure your contract is this that and the other and I see that my
• 1:21:01
  my contract expired in one year. So I had a lot of questions
• 1:21:07
  about. Should I even take it, You know,
• 1:21:10
  as an experiment, I saw that there were several coaches who
• 1:21:14
  stayed here for a year or two and left.
• 1:21:18
  So I'm making phone calls to figure out, hey, what should I
• 1:21:23
  do? This is a one year contract is
• 1:21:27
  are there other head coaches here that only have a one year
• 1:21:30
  contract? So I went in he he gave the
• 1:21:35
  advice he gave me was. You know, you know, he said.
• 1:21:39
  I don't know athletic contracts and what the expectations are,
• 1:21:45
  but if it's something you want to do, you've taken a chance on
• 1:21:48
  a lot of different things. Just look at your clauses.
• 1:21:53
  And I had no clue, couldn't agent and all that stuff.
• 1:21:57
  But, you know, I just wanted someone to put their eyes on it
• 1:22:00
  that was familiar with contracts.
• 1:22:06
  So it wasn't much he can give me because the contract was just
• 1:22:10
  basic. If you don't do XYZ, if you
• 1:22:12
  violate this, you won't be renewed.
• 1:22:15
  But fortunately I was able to get renewed several years until
• 1:22:19
  I got a longer contract because she just didn't do that.
• 1:22:24
  Yeah, I think you know, again, another interesting aspect.
• 1:22:27
  You know, we try to bring a lot of different topics throughout
• 1:22:30
  each guest. So you know if if if you're a
• 1:22:32
  listener and you only listen to one episode.
• 1:22:34
  First of all, thank you. I appreciate you listening at
• 1:22:36
  all. But I I think the real magic
• 1:22:39
  with the coaches we have here is that we talk about different
• 1:22:41
  topics throughout a span. You know if you listen to 10
• 1:22:44
  coaches, you'll you'll hear different topics and learn
• 1:22:46
  different things. I think that topic of contracts,
• 1:22:49
  we've never had it that I can think of.
• 1:22:52
  Here on the podcast I I was always a one year guy you know
• 1:22:54
  as an assistant for most of my career.
• 1:22:55
  So I was only that's all I knew. And then you hear about you know
• 1:22:59
  coaches where you know they'll get extensions and like Dwayne
• 1:23:04
  Ross just got it a one year extension at Tennessee which
• 1:23:06
  means okay. He's on a multiyear contract
• 1:23:08
  things like that. But we don't talk about that in
• 1:23:11
  in the business we we talk about when we go to convention.
• 1:23:14
  We are more likely if I walked by a group of coaches.
• 1:23:17
  I wonder what a group of coaches is called.
• 1:23:19
  You know, like a group of geese is called like a gaggle.
• 1:23:21
  I want to, I got to come up with the name of what a group we.
• 1:23:24
  Have to work on that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm.
• 1:23:27
  Not going to do that on the fly because I'll just get in
• 1:23:29
  trouble. Exactly.
• 1:23:30
  There's a name there that I just know, as you know, when when I
• 1:23:33
  walk through convention and I see the groups of coaches, it is
• 1:23:36
  going to be 99 times out of 100. They're talking about several
• 1:23:40
  different things, how to coach a certain type of, you know, long
• 1:23:43
  jumper, distance, runner, etcetera.
• 1:23:44
  How was family You know it's December so we're all time
• 1:23:47
  holidays things like that. I don't know how many
• 1:23:50
  conversations. I think it's extremely rare of
• 1:23:53
  like hey can we talk about contracts how did you get a
• 1:23:56
  multiyear dear how did you get an extension What should I how
• 1:23:59
  should I talk to my athletic director You know you you you
• 1:24:02
  were on one year rotations for a little while there had to be
• 1:24:05
  some where there was the same AD or a new AD comes in of like how
• 1:24:09
  do I even approach this because it obviously has never been done
• 1:24:12
  here. I've never done it.
• 1:24:14
  So how do I approach that Oh you know assure the baseball coach
• 1:24:19
  gets a multiyear and the football coach but track that
• 1:24:22
  doesn't happen. It's like Oh no, no, actually
• 1:24:24
  like we're at we're we're we're the minority here.
• 1:24:27
  We've given us given the head coach of one year.
• 1:24:29
  How do I have that conversation. I think that's an extremely
• 1:24:32
  important topic. I I would challenge USTFCCCA at
• 1:24:36
  the convention to have someone talk about that to to coach.
• 1:24:39
  You know have that as a as a topic because that's a topic
• 1:24:41
  that we don't talk about but. Boy, we're talking about your
• 1:24:44
  career. We're talking about your
• 1:24:45
  financial stability. It's important.
• 1:24:49
  So something once a year other than the COVID year.
• 1:24:54
  Me, Well, myself. Eric Jenkins, Kareem, that's at
• 1:25:00
  Wisconsin. Yeah, great.
• 1:25:02
  Jason Jackson, he was at. Virginia State was his last
• 1:25:08
  stop. He's coaching high school now,
• 1:25:10
  but he was at Seton Hall and A/B, GA Dean, who's currently at
• 1:25:14
  South Florida. Now we take a trip once like
• 1:25:17
  once a year. You know, we get a a resort room
• 1:25:23
  and I remember Dana Boone commenting on one of our trips
• 1:25:27
  about the guys going out. And like, you ladies need to get
• 1:25:29
  together and go out. But we we we go out.
• 1:25:34
  I mean, one year we rented a little.
• 1:25:36
  Boat got some good fishing in on the Potomac in DC and we talked
• 1:25:40
  about contracts and we talked about different things.
• 1:25:44
  Eric and I shared a couple different things and you know I
• 1:25:48
  was eventually I was able to get my assistant coaches on our
• 1:25:52
  level some a bonus package, you know, so that bonus package has
• 1:25:57
  probably been shared with a ton of head coaches to get help get
• 1:26:01
  their assistant coaches. Bonus packages and but that's
• 1:26:05
  you know in my circle small circle that's what we do.
• 1:26:10
  I remember sitting Lonnie Green down and and and I think we're
• 1:26:14
  in Jacksonville going over training and you know because
• 1:26:18
  like I said I'll ask questions and you know there was an
• 1:26:20
  opportunity for me coming up on a contract year and he mentioned
• 1:26:24
  something about retention bonuses and.
• 1:26:28
  I thought, what? Yeah.
• 1:26:32
  So, you know, I brought that up in contract, talked and that's
• 1:26:35
  the time. No, they didn't do it,
• 1:26:37
  especially for track and field. And eventually I, you know, was
• 1:26:40
  able to get a retention bonus. But those things, if you don't
• 1:26:45
  ask, if you're not talking about it, you're not going to go get
• 1:26:50
  anywhere because I think track and field, we don't talk about
• 1:26:52
  salaries. You hear football coaches,
• 1:26:55
  basketball coaches talking about salary.
• 1:26:57
  But in track and field, you don't talk about salary for, for
• 1:27:00
  whatever reason and we do, you know, my small group, my circle,
• 1:27:06
  we can expand it, but you have to be willing to, you know,
• 1:27:10
  talk. Now the entire trip is not about
• 1:27:12
  track and field. So we do it to get away from
• 1:27:16
  track, but we do talk a little bit and definitely contracts and
• 1:27:21
  that stuff comes up in our talks.
• 1:27:24
  First of all, I need to get a bell.
• 1:27:26
  So when someone names a coach that's been on the podcast, I
• 1:27:30
  can just do a bell and then, you know, listeners will know, oh,
• 1:27:32
  OK, that person, O2 baby two, come on, we've done 200 your
• 1:27:37
  episode. Two.
• 1:27:38
  Oh, yeah. So I'm.
• 1:27:39
  Late in the deal. I mean, you got a lot of it's.
• 1:27:42
  It's hard to throw a stone and not hit someone who's been on
• 1:27:45
  the podcast. Dana Boone.
• 1:27:46
  Come on, man. Of course I've had her on here.
• 1:27:49
  And see, This is why I need the bell.
• 1:27:50
  Because you said it and I was like, I got to make sure I say
• 1:27:53
  it. Oh God.
• 1:27:54
  Lonnie Green. Lonnie Green's been on the show
• 1:27:56
  as well. Yeah, the goal is to get to
• 1:27:59
  where you can't name a coach at all who has not been on the
• 1:28:01
  podcast. But I only get I only get 52 a
• 1:28:03
  year. So I, you know, it's gonna take
• 1:28:04
  me a little while but I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it.
• 1:28:06
  It's like Pokémon, man. I'm catching them all.
• 1:28:09
  John Bingo we don't talk about. That's why I talk about what I'm
• 1:28:14
  saying, contracts, salaries, compensation, etcetera, enough
• 1:28:18
  in track and field. And I think my theory is on that
• 1:28:21
  is, you know, there's a scarcity mindset and a growth mindset.
• 1:28:24
  And I believe the most successful coaches and people
• 1:28:28
  and business etcetera have a growth mindset in track and
• 1:28:31
  field because we are pushed to a scarcity mindset.
• 1:28:37
  You know, we only have 12.6 scholarships on a men's track
• 1:28:40
  and field team, come on. And we give what 88 on football
• 1:28:45
  and and I'm not here's the thing.
• 1:28:48
  If I'm going to go out and try to build the biggest skyscraper,
• 1:28:50
  I want to do it because I build the biggest skyscraper, not
• 1:28:52
  because I tear down everybody else's and therefore mine's the
• 1:28:55
  biggest. So for football with 88
• 1:28:57
  scholarships, I'm not saying they should have less keep 88
• 1:29:00
  I'm cool with that. But I think we shouldn't have
• 1:29:03
  more than 12.6 and 18 on the men and women's side.
• 1:29:07
  Let's grow that So we have this scarcity mindset of.
• 1:29:12
  You know, 12.6 and by the way, that's if you're fully funded.
• 1:29:14
  I trust me, I I yeah, I know, I know you.
• 1:29:18
  I know you're like, yeah, OK, Mike, what's reality?
• 1:29:20
  That's right. Not everybody.
• 1:29:22
  If you're an athlete listening. Spoiler alert, Just because
• 1:29:25
  incident A, a Division One gives out allows 12.6 scholarships
• 1:29:30
  does not mean every institution allows their cells budget wise
• 1:29:35
  to give out 12.6. And it is not uncommon.
• 1:29:38
  I'm not sure until I got to Mississippi State that I had
• 1:29:41
  12.6 at any institution that I worked at.
• 1:29:43
  Now that I think about it. So it's not.
• 1:29:46
  I was at Ball State on the women's side, I I think we were
• 1:29:50
  at 16. I don't think we were fully
• 1:29:51
  funded there either. So, so we have this scarcity
• 1:29:53
  mindset. So I think as coaches, even the
• 1:29:57
  ones who work the hardest to be a growth mindset have a scarcity
• 1:30:01
  mindset, they don't want to tell someone else.
• 1:30:03
  For two reasons. Embarrassed on how much they
• 1:30:05
  make low side and it is embarrassing how much we're
• 1:30:08
  paying some coke. We need to pay more.
• 1:30:10
  I will beat that drum till I die or the other side of like Oh
• 1:30:14
  well, if I tell them, you know, if I tell them I make X amount
• 1:30:17
  of dollars, they may think that's too much for me.
• 1:30:18
  You know, there's an embarrassment on that side or is
• 1:30:21
  it, you know, am I bragging if I talk about that we have got to
• 1:30:24
  be more transparent with each other.
• 1:30:27
  And I understand it's not just in track and field sensitivities
• 1:30:29
  with your salary that's everywhere, every business.
• 1:30:32
  You had it when you were at the new.
• 1:30:34
  State everybody has that that's there.
• 1:30:35
  That's a cultural thing that we have at least here in America.
• 1:30:39
  But when it comes to contracts, retention bonuses, bonuses for
• 1:30:43
  qualifying kids that nationals or conference championships we
• 1:30:47
  need to have those talks so that we can grow in our compensation
• 1:30:52
  for our coaches. If a coaches is that you know
• 1:30:55
  such and such state E State University and doesn't know that
• 1:30:59
  coaches are that the multi contract even exists like that
• 1:31:01
  they're just always have been on a one year contract.
• 1:31:04
  Man, we can help that person out by teaching them what the I
• 1:31:08
  hate, say the real world but with other world does.
• 1:31:09
  And they can maybe go to their AD's and get that for them.
• 1:31:11
  And now that person is better set financially for their
• 1:31:14
  family, their friends, their lives, their passions, their
• 1:31:17
  charities that that's where we got to have.
• 1:31:19
  More communication. So I love that you have it in
• 1:31:21
  your your group and it's boy, it better start there because it
• 1:31:25
  ain't gonna happen in the big group if you're not having, you
• 1:31:27
  know, real close networks like that.
• 1:31:29
  So I love hearing that you guys do that and I can't imagine how
• 1:31:32
  much value you've gotten from each other through the years on
• 1:31:35
  that trip. I don't mind sharing things that
• 1:31:39
  we have because it it wasn't easy to get them and I know that
• 1:31:45
  I just had some administrators that.
• 1:31:48
  Poured into us. You know we had a AD change and
• 1:31:53
  you know he came in and redid some things.
• 1:31:57
  Kind of felt sorry for us a little bit because like at the
• 1:32:00
  time we only had six scholarships on the women's side
• 1:32:03
  and that was those were an equivalency of 6 scholarships
• 1:32:08
  because we had a dollar amount and I had to stay within the
• 1:32:12
  dollar amount and we added everything up and.
• 1:32:16
  It was like we only have six. So but we didn't complain about
• 1:32:22
  it. We went, you know, we just, we
• 1:32:25
  did what we had to do and eventually I got both programs
• 1:32:30
  and the men had six women had six and Title 9 purposes, they
• 1:32:36
  took three from the men. And these are equivalencies.
• 1:32:40
  I'm talking dollar amounts. And so I think by year three of
• 1:32:44
  four. I think I had nine scholar
• 1:32:48
  equivalency of nine in state scholarships on the women's side
• 1:32:51
  and that's when we won our first championship.
• 1:32:55
  Shocker. You're allowed to get more,
• 1:32:57
  attract more kids to your program and then you win.
• 1:33:00
  Yeah, that's a a DS that are listening that.
• 1:33:02
  That's the formula right there. Support your track coaches and
• 1:33:04
  their programs. You'll win more.
• 1:33:06
  I guarantee it. I would love to see a stat of
• 1:33:09
  all the conference championships and their number of scholarships
• 1:33:12
  that they're allowed and I guarantee you would see a trend.
• 1:33:16
  That the ones at the bottom are the ones that have 1234
• 1:33:19
  scholarships, not the fully funded or closer to the fully
• 1:33:23
  funded ones. They're the ones winning.
• 1:33:25
  Yeah, we. I mean, I have my froze coach
• 1:33:28
  Ethan to sing. He's a Ethan.
• 1:33:30
  Yeah. He's my numbers guy and.
• 1:33:35
  Went back in there and let's say let's look at all the schools in
• 1:33:38
  the conference, how many scholarships they have, and we
• 1:33:41
  thought we could use that for motivation or a reason to go to
• 1:33:45
  administration and say why we need more.
• 1:33:48
  It didn't work, but. We kind of knew where we were.
• 1:33:51
  But it would not have happened at all.
• 1:33:54
  You had no shot if you didn't bring the evidence in front.
• 1:33:57
  And while it may not have worked initially that sometimes, you
• 1:34:00
  know what's that, that cartoon of the the two guys who are
• 1:34:04
  mining for diamonds? And the one turns around right
• 1:34:06
  before he's there. You know, if you're not minding
• 1:34:08
  towards the diamond, you ain't never going to get the diamond.
• 1:34:10
  So you're you're putting in the work.
• 1:34:11
  I love that. I love Ethan's that.
• 1:34:12
  He's your numbers guy, by the way.
• 1:34:13
  That's. All that's my numbers, guy, and
• 1:34:16
  we're fully funded now. Oh, awesome.
• 1:34:18
  Bravo VCU. It took us 12 to 13 years, but
• 1:34:23
  you finally got to that place. Now we can recruit international
• 1:34:29
  out of state. Luckily, Virginia is a good
• 1:34:32
  track state because great track. State yeah.
• 1:34:35
  Man, I'd be in trouble, yeah. Yeah, you're in a heck of a
• 1:34:39
  state, that's for sure. Yeah.
• 1:34:40
  Well, I love it, John. I think these are conversations
• 1:34:43
  that have to happen more. I think they have to have.
• 1:34:46
  I challenge myself here and they need to happen more here on the
• 1:34:48
  podcast. They need to happen more in
• 1:34:49
  convention. They need to happen more in
• 1:34:51
  these. I'm a call them bubbles.
• 1:34:52
  These groups that you have, I love that they're, they're
• 1:34:55
  highly important. And here's the crazy part, when
• 1:34:57
  it comes to salaries, 99% of us are working at public
• 1:35:01
  institutions. It ain't that hard to go.
• 1:35:03
  Your salary is public information.
• 1:35:05
  Made that hard to go find it, so I'm not sure why we're holding
• 1:35:07
  back and not telling people. If you're ashamed of how little
• 1:35:11
  you make, first of all, you're in a big boat together with a
• 1:35:14
  lot of other people that aren't making enough money either.
• 1:35:16
  So let's have these important conversations so we can move
• 1:35:18
  forward cuz we don't have to boost Xnator's point.
• 1:35:21
  We don't have a union for our coaches, so we don't have
• 1:35:23
  anybody else fighting for. So we have to fight for
• 1:35:25
  ourselves and for each other. I can let any young track coach
• 1:35:29
  know my first. Salary at Belmont University was
• 1:35:33
  about $20,000. I was going to say 20 to 25,
• 1:35:36
  Yep. Next year 25 and I eventually
• 1:35:39
  got up to 30 but that's that's just the Hard Knocks of it
• 1:35:43
  doesn't have to be that way. So you know we're we're pushing
• 1:35:48
  for more on our end and if any head coach who doesn't have a
• 1:35:52
  bonus package for their assistant coaches, you can reach
• 1:35:55
  out to me, I can share with you. What we have and what we have is
• 1:36:00
  not perfect. We're still striving for it.
• 1:36:03
  But you know we've worked to get what we have and you know Ethan
• 1:36:08
  has been with me for 15 years so and and my other coach Sage,
• 1:36:15
  he's been with me for maybe 10 years now.
• 1:36:19
  But again I'm willing to share anything, any information that
• 1:36:22
  I've. You know, I've, I've, I share
• 1:36:24
  all of our information. I don't know if we were the
• 1:36:26
  first or in line but no one ever told me that their assistant
• 1:36:30
  coaches had a bonus package other than you know maybe some
• 1:36:33
  Power five schools. But we need to share more
• 1:36:36
  information about stuff like that so that we can grow because
• 1:36:41
  there are a lot of coaches especially female coaches that
• 1:36:44
  that's not in the game anymore. You know they can go somewhere
• 1:36:48
  and make some money and I'm sure they were passionate about
• 1:36:51
  coaching track. So you know, I don't know how we
• 1:36:55
  do it, but we need to figure out a way to talk contracts and and
• 1:37:01
  and salaries And you know what? What type of approach do you
• 1:37:05
  take to your administration to show your show your value and we
• 1:37:09
  need to help each other out. I I love the longevity of Tom
• 1:37:14
  and Ethan. You know that show I think that
• 1:37:16
  proves. What you're talking about, you
• 1:37:18
  know, if you if you want to complain about coaches jumping
• 1:37:22
  ship and changing jobs every year, blah, blah, blah, by the
• 1:37:25
  way, that was a a direct. What's the, what's the term
• 1:37:30
  here, A direct? I don't want to say
• 1:37:32
  recommendation, but boost, Schneider said.
• 1:37:35
  Hey, especially early in your career, if you can go somewhere
• 1:37:37
  to to make more money, you need to because we don't pay enough
• 1:37:39
  and you got to retire when you should be able to want to retire
• 1:37:42
  one day, so do it. So if you want to complain about
• 1:37:45
  coaches jumping ship. Pay them more.
• 1:37:47
  Take care of them more. Well, let me lock on some wood
• 1:37:51
  here. If there's some coaches, don't
• 1:37:53
  come after my coaches now. Hey well I I guarantee you and I
• 1:37:59
  know you know Tom and Ethan have done an amazing job for you.
• 1:38:01
  So I know people have taken a run at them but that that's why
• 1:38:03
  I say it. What a what a great example says
• 1:38:05
  a lot about you as the leader there as well John that they've
• 1:38:08
  been there for a decade decade plus.
• 1:38:10
  I mean that that's. You know, we talk all the time.
• 1:38:12
  If, you know, coaches don't stay anywhere, here's an example that
• 1:38:16
  are they're obviously being taken care of not only
• 1:38:18
  financially but emotionally and protect, you know, friends, wise
• 1:38:21
  and socially love the area. I mean, it ain't, it ain't
• 1:38:26
  rocket science here. We just want to be happy in life
• 1:38:28
  and we want to be happy in the profession that we have and that
• 1:38:31
  also takes money. That, that that's takes money to
• 1:38:33
  pay for houses and food and again charities and passions,
• 1:38:37
  etcetera. So I love you're obviously doing
• 1:38:38
  something right there for yourself, for your program and
• 1:38:41
  for your assistant coaches. Those are great examples.
• 1:38:44
  We're not where we want to be, but we're striving to get there.
• 1:38:47
  And guys, I appreciate them. They've been working with me for
• 1:38:50
  all these years and you know, it's just they're they're
• 1:38:54
  they're good guys and then they know what they're doing.
• 1:38:56
  They're passionate about their sport.
• 1:38:57
  So would you say? It makes your job as the head
• 1:39:02
  coach of VCU. Does it make your job easier
• 1:39:05
  that you've got these two guys that have been with you for 10
• 1:39:09
  years so they know what to expect from you?
• 1:39:11
  They know what you expect out of them?
• 1:39:13
  Does it make your job easier? It does and now that we're fully
• 1:39:18
  funded. And it makes their job a little
• 1:39:20
  bit harder. Expectations has changed.
• 1:39:23
  Right. Yeah.
• 1:39:24
  Yeah. Be careful what you asked for.
• 1:39:25
  Right. Yeah.
• 1:39:26
  Yeah, yeah. So you know, now we have to be a
• 1:39:29
  little bit more reasonably nationally competitive, you
• 1:39:31
  know, so but that's the expectation.
• 1:39:35
  You know we we get to the point we've been asking for it, hey
• 1:39:39
  man, if we had this, if we had that, now we have it.
• 1:39:42
  We just have to take advantage of it and those guys are
• 1:39:45
  motivated to do that. And our administration does a
• 1:39:49
  good job of of working with us. You know, I wish they would just
• 1:39:53
  give me everything I wanted when I asked for it, but that's not
• 1:39:56
  how it works. So we're definitely striving to
• 1:40:00
  get to where we want to be as a program.
• 1:40:03
  And you know, I, I, I can sleep a little better knowing that I
• 1:40:08
  have those guys and I always encourage them, you know?
• 1:40:14
  To reach out to whomever you need you know coaching education
• 1:40:18
  is important and my coaches do a really good job of branching out
• 1:40:23
  not thinking they know everything and and just learning
• 1:40:26
  from other coaches and and that's what I like you know and
• 1:40:31
  this program has went from last place in the conference and with
• 1:40:35
  those guys helping me we've we've 9810 championships so.
• 1:40:43
  They're doing a pretty good job, but I can't.
• 1:40:46
  Man winning. Was hard come to my program.
• 1:40:51
  I love for them to get other opportunities and and and I've
• 1:40:54
  been expecting it, but those guys make me look good.
• 1:40:59
  Make sure you hear him cuz. I fight.
• 1:41:03
  I don't play fair. Yeah, well I could.
• 1:41:05
  I would bet an old football player.
• 1:41:07
  Let me tell you what I I scrapping with you.
• 1:41:10
  Well, John, man, as we wrap up today here, I'd love for you to
• 1:41:15
  give give us a shout out, give us what's got you excited.
• 1:41:18
  You know, you're obviously a planner, so you're thinking of
• 1:41:20
  what, you know, next track season 2024 looks like maybe
• 1:41:24
  five years, 10 years down the road.
• 1:41:25
  What's got you excited going on there at VCU?
• 1:41:28
  Well, you know we have we have some really good like this is
• 1:41:33
  what my really my first time. It's been two years.
• 1:41:37
  We got our first international athlete 2 years ago.
• 1:41:40
  And we've branched out a little bit and I'm excited to have
• 1:41:46
  those international athletes come in and and show us their
• 1:41:51
  culture and give us a little a different experience as to, you
• 1:41:58
  know, their experiences. I know that may not sound like
• 1:42:04
  we're we're we're going to win, you know, that's the first thing
• 1:42:08
  we're going to win. But I I just like the fact that
• 1:42:11
  we're branching out a little bit more and bringing more to our
• 1:42:14
  program so that we can become more reasonably nationally
• 1:42:18
  competitive. Now with all these times that's
• 1:42:20
  been ran these past two years, it's it's getting crazy out
• 1:42:24
  there. So my staff, we have to step up
• 1:42:27
  our game. The expectations are up for us
• 1:42:31
  to be again more reasonably nationally competitive.
• 1:42:35
  The 810 is a competitive conference and.
• 1:42:39
  We want to stay on the top of the A10 and I'm in just, I just
• 1:42:45
  love track and field and I like how how good all the athletes
• 1:42:50
  are getting. It's around the board and I
• 1:42:52
  think coaching education has a lot to do with that because
• 1:42:55
  there's so many good coaches out there and they're bringing it
• 1:42:59
  every level from NAIA, Division Two, Division Three, they're
• 1:43:05
  bringing it. So you see all these student
• 1:43:09
  athletes getting it done and it's because of all the good
• 1:43:11
  coaching that's out there. And I'm just looking forward to
• 1:43:15
  a really good year leading into the Olympics, you know?
• 1:43:18
  Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
• 1:43:20
  And our new track should be we get, we get in the new track.
• 1:43:27
  Yeah, man, healthy things grow. Awesome.
• 1:43:30
  Yeah, so if you can. Send me another e-mail so we
• 1:43:33
  can. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 1:43:36
  But we can talk. Absolutely.
• 1:43:38
  Yeah. We're getting a new track here
• 1:43:41
  in Richmond. Our entire stadium is getting
• 1:43:45
  renovated and. I'm looking forward to that.
• 1:43:48
  Now I might be without a track when I hope any.
• 1:43:52
  None of those recruits are watching for a short period of
• 1:43:56
  time, but I know exactly what to do with them.
• 1:43:58
  Yeah, I was about to say I would be.
• 1:44:00
  Heck, you might be more successful.
• 1:44:02
  Who knows? Absolutely.
• 1:44:03
  You got the plan, baby. Yeah, Well, John, what?
• 1:44:07
  What year is this for you now? 15.
• 1:44:10
  Dude, I love, you know, you have the attitude of someone in their
• 1:44:15
  first, second, third year. I mean that in a good way.
• 1:44:17
  Like, you know, there's always in your first couple of years,
• 1:44:19
  you're just excited about everything.
• 1:44:21
  You know, it's like, man, I just, you know, can't in 15
• 1:44:23
  years you can get a little, a little complacency can sit in,
• 1:44:27
  right? And you're very comfortable, you
• 1:44:29
  know where you are. You have the kind of the bullish
• 1:44:31
  attitude of just like, all right, it's a new year, let's go
• 1:44:34
  like we're going to have international recruits are
• 1:44:36
  coming in. That's going to change our
• 1:44:38
  positivity on our athletes. I love the ability for your
• 1:44:42
  athletes to get to talking about the experiences of an
• 1:44:45
  international athlete, to be able to learn other cultures and
• 1:44:47
  experiences that just makes them better people going out into
• 1:44:51
  society. So I love that that's new and
• 1:44:54
  and continues to grow on your team.
• 1:44:56
  You know new facilities are obviously good, you know healthy
• 1:44:59
  things grow. So I just love your attitude of.
• 1:45:01
  I I If I didn't know, I knew you'd been there for a while, so
• 1:45:04
  I didn't know that you'd been there for 15.
• 1:45:06
  I'd be like, Oh yeah, just like John's new program.
• 1:45:07
  He's ready to go. I just love that attitude, man.
• 1:45:10
  That's got to be infectious with your athletes and coaching
• 1:45:12
  staff. Yeah we got.
• 1:45:14
  I got new coach. A former athlete that competed
• 1:45:17
  for me at Belmont is an assistant coach for me now.
• 1:45:19
  She I pulled her out of Texas cooking at Allen High School and
• 1:45:23
  now she's and my distance coach he's.
• 1:45:30
  Sitting around a couple different places, he has a story
• 1:45:32
  too. He's been volunteering all
• 1:45:34
  throughout his collegiate coaching career and I gave him
• 1:45:39
  an opportunity to have his first full time coaching position and
• 1:45:44
  take advantage of it and we're going to give him the resources
• 1:45:47
  to do it. So I'm excited about a lot of
• 1:45:50
  different things and you know, I have my veteran coaches who've
• 1:45:53
  been with me for a long time and I got two that are.
• 1:45:57
  That only been with me for one or two years.
• 1:46:01
  So VCU is doing a really good job of supporting me.
• 1:46:06
  I don't have to do any paperwork anymore.
• 1:46:08
  I have a director of OPS now. So but we've expanded and and
• 1:46:15
  we're we're getting it done. So I'm, I'm blessed and and I'm
• 1:46:19
  happy to be in track and field to on your point we just need to
• 1:46:23
  talk a little bit more about. Advancing these coaches salaries
• 1:46:27
  and and doing the little things that make the programs grow.
• 1:46:31
  That's right. To your to your point about you,
• 1:46:33
  you mentioned all the great things that from when you got
• 1:46:36
  there to when you're here now that VCU is growing and you kept
• 1:46:38
  saying we're not where we want to be, we got to continue to
• 1:46:40
  grow. I think that's exactly right in
• 1:46:42
  the coaching profession. There's a lot of good things
• 1:46:45
  that are happening in 2023 in the coaching profession.
• 1:46:49
  We still have a lot. There's the road is still there
• 1:46:51
  and there's still bumps in the road and potholes and speed
• 1:46:53
  bumps. We have to continue working and
• 1:46:55
  working together. And I see that what you're doing
• 1:46:58
  there at VCU with your administration and your coaching
• 1:47:00
  Staffs working together and improving, man, it's just it's
• 1:47:03
  so awesome to see. It really is.
• 1:47:06
  I appreciate it man and and thanks for having me.
• 1:47:10
  Glad I found some time to. Get on here.
• 1:47:14
  Hey so. I'm always, you know, this is
• 1:47:16
  not, I've said this 100 times. This is not an easy podcast to
• 1:47:20
  listen to and it's not an easy podcast to be a guest on because
• 1:47:24
  this ain't no 20 minute, 30 minute, get in and get out.
• 1:47:27
  We we need tie like we've been going an hour and 46 right now.
• 1:47:31
  Wow. Yeah, no, no coach.
• 1:47:33
  Every coach. During pre interview, I'll give
• 1:47:35
  you a little behind the scenes here, listener.
• 1:47:37
  Every coach during pre interview goes, hey, so I don't know that
• 1:47:40
  I have an hour's worth to talk about and then an hour in and
• 1:47:43
  we're still talking about Saint Augustine High School.
• 1:47:46
  But because there's just so much to all these coaches, all these
• 1:47:49
  guests that we have so much complexity.
• 1:47:51
  And so I am always thankful, always blessed when you do give
• 1:47:55
  me the time, John, because I know you're busy.
• 1:47:58
  Track and field is different than any other sport.
• 1:48:00
  Coaching. There are no days.
• 1:48:03
  Off you go. I mean, right now it's July.
• 1:48:06
  You're already recruiting for the next year and the year
• 1:48:08
  after. Soon the kids are coming back
• 1:48:11
  for crosscountry season, which means offseason training for our
• 1:48:13
  sprinters, jumpers, hurdlers, throwers and then indoor season.
• 1:48:16
  Now it used to be novel. There'd be a December meet now.
• 1:48:20
  Everybody and their brother seems to open up in December.
• 1:48:22
  So December through end of May into June goes your meets.
• 1:48:26
  If you have anybody qualified for USA's in her 20s, that's the
• 1:48:28
  middle of June. Boom, it's July again.
• 1:48:30
  We're all over again. So always busy and I'm always
• 1:48:34
  blessed when you can carve out time for you, man.
• 1:48:35
  So I'm just so, so thankful for you sitting down with us today
• 1:48:39
  here in the Guild Connections podcast.
• 1:48:42
  Really appreciate it and I love the music, the intro music
• 1:48:47
  that's on your podcast. That's that's my guy next door
• 1:48:51
  who takes all my I. Was about to say, you know who
• 1:48:54
  that is, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:48:55
  Yeah, yeah. Not going to even mention his
• 1:48:58
  name on this podcast, because music does it all for him.
• 1:49:03
  We had to get it. It's to me, I love authenticity.
• 1:49:05
  So when I knew, found a track person who did that, I was like,
• 1:49:09
  oh man, what can I do to get this, make this happen?
• 1:49:12
  And I'm so blessed from him as well.
• 1:49:13
  Man, we won't. We're at the same hotel in
• 1:49:17
  Jacksonville and he talked about this.
• 1:49:19
  You know, we we sat at breakfast and talked about this for a
• 1:49:22
  while. I said I'm, I'm gonna, you know,
• 1:49:24
  I know you have some skills so definitely gonna listen to.
• 1:49:28
  Him. He does.
• 1:49:28
  He's got skills all day. We'll keep him as the person who
• 1:49:32
  is not named, but you know who we're talking about here.
• 1:49:35
  I'm with Virginia too much. See I need another, I need
• 1:49:37
  another Ding so he'll be Ding cuz he's also.
• 1:49:40
  We're not. We're not gonna Ding him cuz
• 1:49:41
  he's always in state. He takes community athletes from
• 1:49:45
  Virginia and take them over to that other school.
• 1:49:47
  Stay over in the East part of Carolina.
• 1:49:49
  That's as far as we're gonna get.
• 1:49:50
  All right. It's a wrap.
• 1:49:52
  It's a wrap. We're done today.
• 1:49:54
  John, thank you so much, man. I'm so blessed.
• 1:49:56
  Again, spend some time with us and share.
• 1:49:58
  You're really unique. I love sharing how if you want
• 1:50:02
  to be a track coach or if you want to have a career in
• 1:50:03
  coaching track and field, how there is no playbook.
• 1:50:06
  There is only hard work and gumption.
• 1:50:10
  Continue to work for it. So I love your unique story,
• 1:50:12
  John Man. Thank you for sharing that with
• 1:50:14
  us today. And thanks for having, Mike.
• 1:50:16
  I appreciate it. Absolutely.
• 1:50:17
  Thank you for being here, listening, join us next week
• 1:50:19
  here on the Guild Track and Field Connections podcast.
• 1:50:21
  Who knows who we're going to have, but I bet you they're
• 1:50:23
  going to be awesome. See you guys next week.
• 1:50:25
  Have an awesome one.