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Thursday Crime Stories: Kids dead from dope: HELP · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph.
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  Speaker 1: Last year, synthetic opioids like Fintonel surpassed heroin as the
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  Speaker 1: leading cause of drug overdose dusts. More people are dying
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  Speaker 1: from inscription peels, and they are from motor vehicle accidents,
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  Speaker 1: and the number of overdose DUTs caused by synthetic opioids
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  Speaker 1: has more than doubled from these were people. These are
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  Speaker 1: real people, and they're dying out because nobody seems to
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  Speaker 1: carry anymore. Altogether, the number of opioid overdose dusts and
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  Speaker 1: surpassed the number of deaths caused by the AIDS epidemic
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  Speaker 1: at its peak. In Fulton County, Leaders along with representatives
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  Speaker 1: from a private law firm, are suing twelve manufacturers and
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  Speaker 1: distributors of opioid based medication. They say the company's downplay
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  Speaker 1: at the risks associated with the drug. We were all
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  Speaker 1: stunned to see recent images and these were not doctored.
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  Speaker 1: They were not photoshopped because, believe me, I investigated it
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  Speaker 1: of a couple, nice car, like a suburban, Mom and
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  Speaker 1: dad passed out at the wheel. At first, I thought
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  Speaker 1: I was seeing an image of some kind of a
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  Speaker 1: hit and run, or a crash or a single car incident.
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  Speaker 1: It wasn't. There were children in the back seat. They
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  Speaker 1: were looking at mommy and daddy passed out on opioid's heroine.
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  Speaker 1: And that photo, that one image circulated around the world.
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  Speaker 1: We are in the middle of an opioid crisis and
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  Speaker 1: opioid epidemic. Other countries are looking at US saying, look,
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  Speaker 1: America has an opioid epidemic. Look at the US. What
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  Speaker 1: how did we get in this spot? And I remember
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  Speaker 1: prosecuting cases and there would be one guy after the
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  Speaker 1: next guy, after a woman, after a stock broker, after
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  Speaker 1: a banker, or after a soccer mom coming into court
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  Speaker 1: with heroin. I couldn't believe it. I'm Nancy Grace. This
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  Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with me. With
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  Speaker 1: me now, Mark Tate, lawyer representing government suing drug companies.
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  Speaker 1: That's what it's come to. Dr William Moroney, opioid treatment
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  Speaker 1: expert Nanette Sosa, Crime Stories contributing reporter and Tim Ryan
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  Speaker 1: a and ease quote dope man. Okay, I don't know
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  Speaker 1: how I feel about that, dopeman and advisor to rehab
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  Speaker 1: dot Com. Tim Ryan, I'm starting with you. You we're
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  Speaker 1: an addict. How did you get clean? I unfortunately got clean,
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  Speaker 1: being sentenced to seven years in the Illinois Department at Corrections.
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  Speaker 1: As you were just talking, I was that middle class father.
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  Speaker 1: I was a very successful businessman. I had an office
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  Speaker 1: in the Wrigley Building in downtown Chicago on Michigan Avenue.
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  Speaker 1: Like I made a very good living, but I also
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  Speaker 1: struggled with heroin and had a five dollar a day habit.
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  Speaker 1: I overdose, why driving? Hit two cars, put four people
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  Speaker 1: in the hospital, one being a nine month old baby.
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  Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, wait, wait wait, Tim Ryan with me
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  Speaker 1: a and E's dopeman advisor to rehab dot Com. And
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  Speaker 1: I know right now I can't see Dr William Moroney,
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  Speaker 1: my friend in colleague, but I know he is just
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  Speaker 1: shaking his head. Tim Ryan, you did what? I overdose?
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  Speaker 1: Why driving? I hit two cars. I put four people
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  Speaker 1: in the hospital. I was clinically dead on the scene.
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  Speaker 1: It took uh five doses of Narcan to bring me back. Um.
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  Speaker 1: I ultimately started fighting my case. And and here's where
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  Speaker 1: it gets deeper, because unless you live in the world
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  Speaker 1: of addiction, you're gonna shake your head. Now, all my
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  Speaker 1: family knows Dad's a heroin addict, and I had tried
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  Speaker 1: some boxing in the early two thou sins in methodone.
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  Speaker 1: I wasn't ready to get sober. In the midst of
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  Speaker 1: fighting my case, I know I'm going to prison. And
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  Speaker 1: about three months into fighting my case, I'm profusely dope sick.
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  Speaker 1: And when you don't have opious, you're hot, you're cold.
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  Speaker 1: It's like having the flu times a thousand. I'm taking
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  Speaker 1: a hot bath and my seventeen year old son walks in.
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  Speaker 1: He said, what's wrong, Pops? And I said, what do
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  Speaker 1: you think, Nick, I'm dope sick. And he said, not anymore, Dad,
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  Speaker 1: Today's you're lucky day. And he threw two bags of
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  Speaker 1: heron on the counter. Now with Nick, I was not
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  Speaker 1: a father, I was a friend. I was the father
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  Speaker 1: that let my son and his buddy smoke a little weed,
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  Speaker 1: drink a little beer. And when Nick did that, I
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  Speaker 1: got out of the top and I did those two
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  Speaker 1: bags and and instantly I felt better, and I want
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  Speaker 1: my son's room, and I said, Nick, what are you doing?
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  Speaker 1: He said, don't worry, Dad, I'm just selling a little bit.
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  Speaker 1: I said, Nick, you need to shut this down immediately.
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  Speaker 1: You know what this drug gets done to me. And
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  Speaker 1: my son looked right at me and he said, well, Dad,
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  Speaker 1: you're a successful drug addict. And I said, why would
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  Speaker 1: you say that? While we've got a nice house, you
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  Speaker 1: have an office and the Wrigley Building, you make a
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  Speaker 1: good living. In my son's delusional mind, he thought I
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  Speaker 1: was successful because I functioned. Three months later, my son
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  Speaker 1: and I were doing heroin together. That's how we bonded.
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  Speaker 1: Tim Wait a minute, wait wait wait, wait, wait, wait wait.
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  Speaker 1: It's hurting me so bad. I mean, I can tell
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  Speaker 1: you've told a story a hundred times spent. I'm hearing
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  Speaker 1: it for the first time, and I can hardly take
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  Speaker 1: it in because I'm thinking about, you know, every night
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  Speaker 1: when I run back to the back and try to
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  Speaker 1: take a quick bath. In fact, it's so funny, you know,
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  Speaker 1: Dr Maroney. You know my children, they're so used to
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  Speaker 1: me going so fast, they actually thought the name of
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  Speaker 1: a shower was a quick shower. They didn't know you
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  Speaker 1: could take a shower. They grew up here and go,
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  Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a quick shower. And they grew up
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  Speaker 1: and they go, my mom and go take a quick shower.
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  Speaker 1: They don't even know. I'm so used to going ninety
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  Speaker 1: miles an hour. So when I'm back there, they always
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  Speaker 1: are coming in and out and talking and showing me
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  Speaker 1: something or whatever they're doing. I'm just imagining one of
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  Speaker 1: my little babies thrown down two bags of heroin. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: tim with me a and ease quote dope man Advisor
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  Speaker 1: rehab dot Com telling the story. Dr Maroney, I mean
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  Speaker 1: to him, that's normal to me. I'm actually crying right now.
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  Speaker 1: I just to even think of it, Dr Moroney, How
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  Speaker 1: how did we How did we get here? Doctor? There's
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  Speaker 1: been a shift in the new normal, and you may
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  Speaker 1: be uncomfortable with it, but became evident through medical mismanagement.
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  Speaker 1: The proper way to evaluate pain was interfered with by
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  Speaker 1: non governmental organizations, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and they pushed
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  Speaker 1: medication into the public through channels education, medical societies, and
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  Speaker 1: opioids became very common in our society. Okay, spake English.
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  Speaker 1: When you say opioids, are you talking about oxyconton? Well,
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  Speaker 1: what do you mean? What's norko, vicadin? Oxycond I went
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  Speaker 1: to I went to school, not denography oxy. I'm still
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  Speaker 1: on oxycodon. Okay, oxyconton? You said something about nor norco
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  Speaker 1: co vicodin. Don't even try to take notes. Okay, I'm putting,
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  Speaker 1: I put my fend go ahead. All you gotta know
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  Speaker 1: is pain pills got out of control because there was
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  Speaker 1: an organization called the Joint Commission on Hospital Accreditation that
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  Speaker 1: forced this concept of pain being a fifth vital sign
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  Speaker 1: down people's throats, and some of the governments in the
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  Speaker 1: states and the hospitals in the medical schools said hey,
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  Speaker 1: this is a good idea, and they didn't train doctors
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  Speaker 1: are providers how to adequately assess pain and treat it.
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  Speaker 1: Is that what happened to Tim Ryan, because it sounds
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  Speaker 1: to me like it was a bag of heroin, not
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  Speaker 1: at oxycont When you're saying, Dr Moroney, you're calling off
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  Speaker 1: all these pharmaceutical names, I think I know what you're
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  Speaker 1: talking about. You're talking about what blues kickers, O c
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  Speaker 1: oxy hill, Billy heroin. Now those are the names I know.
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  Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with those. Well that's what they call
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  Speaker 1: it down in Atlanta. Uh huh. But here's what happens.
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  Speaker 1: And when people start getting kicked off, they moved heroin
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  Speaker 1: with a blink of an eye. When when people no
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  Speaker 1: longer have access to the pharmaceutical medication that was pushed
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  Speaker 1: on them. In a blink of an eye. They transfer
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  Speaker 1: because their their minds have been rewired. They don't want
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  Speaker 1: to be sick, and starting heroin is just the next
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  Speaker 1: step and that's the new normal. So, Tim Ryan, addicts
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  Speaker 1: may crush pills before swallowing or snorting them, dissolve pills
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  Speaker 1: in water, inject them, get multiple prescriptions for narcotics from
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  Speaker 1: different doctors, go to the emergency room to get more
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  Speaker 1: pills when they run out, request emergency refills for medication,
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  Speaker 1: drink alcohol, or use sedatents or other pain killers with
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  Speaker 1: their prescription. Uh, take prescription painkillers without a prescription, just
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  Speaker 1: for any reason. If you know someone that's doing these
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  Speaker 1: things and more, you've got a problem. Tim Ryan a
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  Speaker 1: any dopeman advisor rehab dot Com. I want to get
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  Speaker 1: back to that moment that you thought it was normal,
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  Speaker 1: it was okay for your son to come in with
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  Speaker 1: two bags of heroin. I would completely nut up and
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  Speaker 1: burn the house down. Okay, I don't even know what
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  Speaker 1: I would do. Uh what happened then? So so you
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  Speaker 1: have to understand, you know, I'm i'm when you're and
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  Speaker 1: I will never justify because ultimately my son died and
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  Speaker 1: I will be the first to admit I helped kill
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  Speaker 1: my own son, and I have to live with that
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  Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. I didn't start Nick
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  Speaker 1: on heroin, but he followed in my footsteps, and and
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  Speaker 1: I own that. But when I was in that bathtub,
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  Speaker 1: profusely sick, and he said, Dad, I've got two bags
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  Speaker 1: of heroin, it was good. I can do those. You're
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  Speaker 1: not trying to get high. I'm just trying to feel normal.
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  Speaker 1: And within two minutes I felt normal. And then ultimately
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  Speaker 1: Nick and I started using, and then I was sentenced
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  Speaker 1: to seven years in prison. And when I went to prison,
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  Speaker 1: I left my wife high and dry, our house in foreclosure.
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  Speaker 1: My addiction caused damage to everyone near and dear to me,
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  Speaker 1: and by the grace of God, I was able to
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  Speaker 1: get into sheared In Correctional Center in Illinois. There's twenty
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  Speaker 1: eight prisons in Illinois. Two of them have a therapeutic
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  Speaker 1: community run through West Carre and I got into that.
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  Speaker 1: I did thirteen and a half months in that prison.
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  Speaker 1: My wife divorced me, I lost our house and foreclosure.
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  Speaker 1: I displaced my four kids, and my wife my son
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  Speaker 1: was an active addiction. But all I did was plugged
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  Speaker 1: into recovery. My cellmate night eighteen hours a day in
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  Speaker 1: that cell, studied the Big Book of Alcoholics, Anonymous, the
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  Speaker 1: NASI Tax sur Bible, read hundreds of books. I wrote
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  Speaker 1: the business plan for the foundation I run today in
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  Speaker 1: that prison cell. When I walked out, Shannon, my former
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  Speaker 1: better half, picked me up. She had a little town
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  Speaker 1: house set up for me in downtown Naperville. Because I
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  Speaker 1: am forty nine years old today and as someone was
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  Speaker 1: saying earlier, Dr Moroney, looks, I don't have a driver's license.
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  Speaker 1: I have not had a driver's license in sixteen years
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  Speaker 1: due to my driving on revolts driving and getting d uise.
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  Speaker 1: But the good thing is I have a full time
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  Speaker 1: driver in a company car, and my full time driver
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  Speaker 1: as my my nineteen year old son. So I get
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  Speaker 1: the honor employe viledge of working with my son every day,
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  Speaker 1: speaking in schools, doing everything we do. But I got
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  Speaker 1: out of prison. Shannon brought Nickmack, Tim Tim Tim Tim
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  Speaker 1: Ryan any Dopeman advisor rehab dot com. You're you're Jackie
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  Speaker 1: and I own the studio. We can't take it in.
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  Speaker 1: You're going so fast this this story, I mean every
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  Speaker 1: sentence as a whole new thing. So your wife that
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  Speaker 1: divorced you, Yeah, while you were behind bars getting yourself together,
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  Speaker 1: she got you a town house to move into while
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  Speaker 1: you're in jail. And my mother did. And even though
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  Speaker 1: Shannon divorced me, she still brought two of the kids
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  Speaker 1: to visit me every two weeks. She was my biggest supporter.
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  Speaker 1: And I asked her, I said, why did you not
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  Speaker 1: give up on me? She said, Tim, when you went
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  Speaker 1: to prison, my heart was broken. Then it got to
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  Speaker 1: be a task to come and see you. Then I
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  Speaker 1: was excited that you were getting out because I had
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  Speaker 1: a little bit of hope that you might turn your
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  Speaker 1: life around. And I did. I I started at the
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  Speaker 1: support groups. W I have the families and persons struggling
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  Speaker 1: coming At the same time, I set up my foundation.
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  Speaker 1: I stumbled into working for a treatment center doing outreach.
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  Speaker 1: And then on my nineteenth sobriety day, my twenty year
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  Speaker 1: old son Nick was back in treatment for the fifth
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  Speaker 1: or sixth time. And I went to meet with Nick
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  Speaker 1: and he said, Dad, we're gonna speak all over the country.
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  Speaker 1: We got such a crazy story, I said, Nick, I
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  Speaker 1: would want nothing more than that, But you need to
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  Speaker 1: get into recovery. Don't worry, Dad, I will. He got out.
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  Speaker 1: Thirty days later, he's back in Cook County jail, selling
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  Speaker 1: bogus bills trying to buy heroin. He did forty five
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  Speaker 1: days he got out. Shannon picked him up, took him
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  Speaker 1: to lunch and said, Nick, we're done. You're not coming
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  Speaker 1: to my house. You're not coming to Dad's because all
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  Speaker 1: you do is like eat and steal. Don't worry. I
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  Speaker 1: got it all figured out. Five days out of jail,
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  Speaker 1: I called Nick and I said, Nick, this is three
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  Speaker 1: and a half years ago. I said, Nick, come to
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  Speaker 1: my house and get some knark in. I was doing
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: a big training event the following week. We started handing
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: it out our support groups, and he said, Dad, I
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  Speaker 1: promise you I'm not on that ps anymore. And I
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  Speaker 1: believed them. Two days later, Shannon called me at six
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  Speaker 1: in the morning, said, Nick, overnose, I'm coming to pick
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  Speaker 1: you up. We shot to Hinsdale Hospital. We ran into
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the emergency room, Jim and Shannon ryan to see our sun. Nick.
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  Speaker 1: He overnoseed, and thirty seconds later the chaplain walked out.
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  Speaker 1: I knew my son was dead, and I'll ask people
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  Speaker 1: what was my next thought, and They'll say you wanted
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  Speaker 1: to go use No, my next thought was I'll be
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  Speaker 1: at the six o'clock twelve step meeting. And that's what
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  Speaker 1: I did. And there's a lot more to it. But
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  Speaker 1: my son died on my twenty one month sobriety date.
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  Speaker 1: The newspaper was doing a big article on me because
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that following Thursday, I was doing a big narcay and
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: training event and the reporter called me and said, Tim,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to cancel the story. I said, no, you're not.
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  Speaker 1: She said you're not going through with the event, are you? Said? Absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: I laid my son to rest on Wednesday. I did
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: the event on Thursday and in the paper it said
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  Speaker 1: anti heroin crusader lose this on to overdose. Unfortunately, in
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  Speaker 1: my son's past, see Nick really instilled what I do today.
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  Speaker 1: I can't change the past. I can't change anything I did.
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  Speaker 1: All I can do is take this pain, my thirty
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  Speaker 1: years of in and out of addiction and use it
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  Speaker 1: for a positive to benefit people today. And I've assisted
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  Speaker 1: over three thousand people into treatment. My full time job,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I worked for a treatment center out of Florida Transformations
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: in Delray Beach. I speak all over the country. This
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  Speaker 1: is my life. Seven since Nick passed, I've buried a
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: hundred and seventeen people with me. Tim Ryan, A and
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: E's Dopeman advisor to rehab dot Com, Nanette Sosa, Dr
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: William Moroney, and Mark Tate, high profile lawyer suing drug companies.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Old On just a moment, I want to address something.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of cold cases out there,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: like the Golden State Killer, and they've been in the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: news a lot recently. But guess what, There's so many
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: cold case murders across the country you never hear about. Well,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Kelly Sigler and her team are changing that. On Oxygen's
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Cold Justice, Kelly and her team of detectives dig into
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: real cold murder cases in search of answers for victims
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: and their families, and the show's executive producer is Dick Wolfe,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: the creator of Law and Order. Each case really draws
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: you in. You feel like you're part of Kelly's team,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and you will love how they work so hard to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: get justice because each case as personal to Kelly and
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the whole team. Well, buckle up watch the new season
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: of Cold Justice Saturday, six pm Eastern, five pm Central,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: and you can find it on Oxygen. William Maroney, opioid
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: treatment expert Dr Maroney, You and I have very very
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: similar beliefs. When I'm listening to Tim Ryan from A
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: and E's Dopeman from rehab dot Com, I'm thinking about
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  Speaker 1: how so many people would be angry at him, blame
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: him for his son's death, find fault with him. But
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm convinced that those that are broken the
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  Speaker 1: most are used the most to do good things. So
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  Speaker 1: anyone listening, if you think you are beyond healing and
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: beyond repair and beyond doing anything with your life, please
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  Speaker 1: hear the words of Tim Ryan, Dr Maroney. What happens
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  Speaker 1: when you are on an opioid? How does it take
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  Speaker 1: over your whole life? How does it suddenly? How is
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  Speaker 1: it okay? Your son comes in and gives you a
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  Speaker 1: bag of heroin and you're okay with that. Which you
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  Speaker 1: have to understand is at the level that you're using.
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  Speaker 1: If you don't get enough, you get sick, and what
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  Speaker 1: drives you back is not necessarily the need to get high,
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  Speaker 1: but you have to stop getting sick, and that's what
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  Speaker 1: everybody else in America doesn't understand about how the brain
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  Speaker 1: has been rewired in these people, and the number of
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: milligrams they continue to need to not get sick goes
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  Speaker 1: up and they try to do enough drug to stop
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  Speaker 1: getting sick. But what we know, it's almost like there's
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: this third wave. I talked about prescription drugs. That was
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: the first wave of addictions. The second wave of addictions
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  Speaker 1: is the onset of heroin into our culture at large
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  Speaker 1: volumes four or five years ago. The third wave, which
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  Speaker 1: is probably starting like sometime last last year, is the
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: introduction of fentanyl alone and fentanyl in the heroine. People
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  Speaker 1: are trying to get back to just not being sick,
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  Speaker 1: but it's clear that fentanyl and heroin are changing the
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: American landscape forever. And all the doctors are ill equipped
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  Speaker 1: with just not enough addiction doctors to help, hospitals are
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: inaccurately trained, and the government's can't catch up with this
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: because it's exploding. He's trying to just not get sick,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: and what we need to do. I have a book
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: that clearly outlines how heroin and fentnel are exploding and
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the only answer are you talking about American narcans. That's
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Dr William Moroney's book. It's one of the many ways
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Dr Maroney is fighting the opioid crisis. Right now. To
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: anyone that needs help now dial eight hundred two seven
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: three to five hundred. We've got to g cate families
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: to fireproof themselves to seven three eight to five five,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Tim Ryan, any dopeman, could you tell me? Because I
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: have never used a drug um an illegal drug. When
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you take heroin, what feeling goes through your body. So
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I never glamorized heroin used. But the way I will
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: explain it, I was over a year clean and sober
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: when I tried heroin. I was going to twelve step meetings.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: But I liked the sponsor myself, and I thought I
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: could get sober through Osmoses. I I did it my way,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: and I took a guy to Chicago to move out
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: of his apartment. His roommate pops out, what are you doing?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I said, I'm moving out, y'all? What are you doing?
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: He said? Heroin? You want to try some? When I
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: snorted that first bag of heroin in two thousand and one,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I thought, Wow, this is what I'm looking for. This,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: this is this is it. And for the first three
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: weeks I did a bag or two a day. I
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: was able to work. I thought I had more energy,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: and then I ran out and I got profusely sick
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: and and found out I was dope sick and and
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I never ran out. But it's I mean, pain pills,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: oxycott and all the things that doctor mentioned are there
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: to relieve your pain, but so quickly. I mean, if
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: I took a thousand people and put them in an
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: auditorium and locked the door and I gave them all
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: opiates for a week straight, every person at the end
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: of that week will be addicted dopius. That's how powerful
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: they are. And what's happening today is this these younger generations,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and it's hitting the older aren't drinking beer. They're going
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: right from weed to pain pills to heroin that quickly.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I mean the youngest heron attict I've worked with is
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: twelve years old. The oldest is seventy eight. This affects everybody.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Mark Tait is with me, a lawyer who is actually
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: suing the drug companies. Mark Tait, you know, I really
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: don't know how you do it. You have so many
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: cases and you are a veteran lawyer, very well respected. Mark,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: tell me in a way that we can all understand,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: why are you suing drug companies? Mark, take I'll tell
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: you why, Financy. It's um. It's a terrible story of
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: what's happened, and it's all about massive pharmaceutical companies and
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the power that they have to shape the way Americans
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and the rest of the world think, but especially in
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the United States and here, Uh, First of all, we're
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: one of two countries in the entire world where drug
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: manufacturers can market directly to the public. And we see
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the ads all the time. Go ask your doctor if
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: you should take this drug? Ask what we should take
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: this drug? And so here the pharmaceutical industry is touched on,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you know, in part by Dr Moroney. They contrived this
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: notion number one, uh, that these drugs are used to
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: treat what is your fifth vital sign? And number two
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: then they said and came out with and published in
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: the American Journal of Medicine UM that opioid medications were
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: not addictive. And then the first we need to get
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: people out into the medical public. And they're called plug
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: reps or detailed reps. And those detailed reps were trained
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: to go to surgeons and say, listen, what you really
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: need is you need to be able to perform your
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: surgical interventions on your patients, and then you need them
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: to be pain free from that surgery, completely pain free.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: And no OxyContin is not UH is not addictive, and
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: no hydro codone is not addictive, and no fentnyl is
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: not addictive. And so the reason that they did that
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: is the massive profits that they make because you know,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the cost of manufacturing these drugs is very small in
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: comparison to some other other drugs, and so the profit
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: margin is massive. And so I started to see some
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: time ago that some folks were trying to sue individual
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: medical doctors for over prescribing, and those lawsuits generally did
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: not fail. So about a year and a half two
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: years ago, I, along with a former partner of mine,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: approached Fulton County, Georgia, because they, like Dr Moroney's, area
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: has its own public health department where they incur great
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: deals of cost directly related to the opioid manufacturing in
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the opioid crisis, which was existing two years ago. Well,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: what you're taking on a very very powerful, very powerful
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: adversary by suing drug companies with me. Mark Tate kind
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: of feels like a David and Goliath scenario. Ninette Sosa,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Nanette, why is it being termed
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: an epidemic? A crisis? And I noticed that the president
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: just declared war on the opioid crisis, but I recalled Nanette.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: So so, when I first started as a district attorney
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: in inner city Atlanta, the elected D A. Louis Layton
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: sent me to the hill. In other words, the Assembly,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: the Georgia legislature to push anti crime issues, and the
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: politicians were forever making this proclamation and that law and
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: this law, but then they wouldn't give in any money,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: so the laws meant nothing. I mean, I could order
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: somebody to drug rehab every day of the week, but
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: without a drug rehab facility, there were not enough beds,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: so they would sit in jail for a year waiting
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: their time will be done. They'd get out without ever
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: getting rehab. So when you put a law on the books,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: that's a joke. That means nothing unless you give it
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the money the nets. So so, why what are the stats?
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Why is it being called an opioid epidemic? A crisis
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: in the US. It's called an epidemic because it's been
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: so overprescribed by physicians for a while. Beginning in the nineties,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: there was an under prescription problem. People um complained. So
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: because of that, regulators became involved and said, well, let's
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: loosen these regulations so physicians can prescribe more pain pills,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: and so as a result, users then became addicted after
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: being prescribed. Today, people who are using or have been
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: prescribed massive amount of opioids for their pain can no
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: longer get prescriptions. Now they're hitting the streets and using
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: it illegally. Dr William Moroney, let's talk about statistics. Why
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: is it being called a crisis an epidemic explained that
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: to me, here's the number one reason why the numbers
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: are going up so fast. In two thousand fifteen, there
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: were fifty two, four hundred and four overdoses. In two
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, CNN, the CDC, and The New York Times
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: quoted sixty four thousand opioid overdose deaths. I project in
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: my book American Narcan for two thousand seventeen, we will
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: have over seventy thousand, almost seventy nine thousand overdoses, and
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: by we will have over a hundred thousand overdoses in
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: America because the first wave, the second wave, and the
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: third wave are just happening so fast. It's outpacing medical education,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: it's outpacing criminal justice. I'm listening to Dr William Moroney,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: author of a brand new book, American narcan Opioid Expert,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Tim Ryan, A and E's Dope Man with Me Nanette Sosa,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Mark Tate, Tim Ryan, My husband had a very very
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: dear friend that he worked with for years and years
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: and years, and he had the apple of his eye
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: was his son. Okay, I don't know if you've ever
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: seen um the Harry Potter series, but I always think
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: of Cedric Diggory, who his father just you know, worshiped
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: his son and then his son eyes and the pain
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: you see that reminds me of this father, this father's son,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: my husband's friend, al A's great student, cross country track
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: star and some private school, I mean everything. You couldn't
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: even see this guy at the grocery store that I'm
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: showing you pictures of the sun at this track made
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: he won this, He did that. His son tried heroin, Tim,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: he tried heroin. After the first time he got addicted,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the father immediately sent him to the best addiction recovery
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: center he could find in the whole United States. He
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: got clean, he came back, he got back on track.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: The next thing we heard he died of an overdose.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: He was seventeen, Tim seventeen. It's it's people you don't expect,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: you know. It's people out on the street. It's junkies.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: It's Uh, the waitress at the waffle else, it's across
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: all races. Um, it's the rich white kid. It's everybody.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Tim Ryan, it's you. It's your son. He's dead because
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: of an overdose. Explain it to people that don't understand,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that have never used opioids. So you know, we have
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: to understand here, this is the new in drug. When
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I'm dealing with kids or family members struggling, I wanted
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: to fit in the pressure. I just wanted to try it.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: And if you try it that one time, that's it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: And as the doctor said from five years ago when
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: I was using too, now, it's not just heroine, it's fentanyl.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Fentanyl is a thousand times stronger than pure heroine. Even
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of these pills that kids think they're buying
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: a xan x bar. It's cross fent it's fear fentinyl.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: You know, it's everywhere. We need much more education. And
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: the thing I hear from families not my family. We
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: live in a good community. We go to church on Sunday.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: So what you need to know who your friends are
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: involved with, be into their technology. Disaffects everyone. The big
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: misconception Nancy is the heroin addict as a homeless person
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: on the corner with the needle in their arms. My
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: son never used the needle. He started heroin and his
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: buddy gave him a barzanex. The average heroin addict today
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: is the twenty two year old white middle class female
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: and its twenty three year old white middle class male.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I am in the middle of central Illinois right now,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: in farm communities. I'm speaking at three high schools today.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: One high school has four hundred students. They've had ten
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: overnose that's in this little community in the past year.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: This is everywhere. It's not going away. It's getting much
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: much worse. But what else is happening to We need
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: laws like the Good Samaritan Law. When I speak in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: high schools all over the country. None of this students
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: know what the Good Samaritan laws and the Good Samaritan laws.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: If me and you were doing drugs together and you overdose,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I can call one. The police will com hopefully save
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: your life, take the drugs. Leave. Nobody gets arrested. Because
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: when my son died, he was with his girlfriend and
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: two other friends. They knew Nick was overdosing, and they panicked.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: They were afraid to call the police. They had drugs,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: they didn't know about the law. They put him on
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the sofa, he was breathing. They went in the basement,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: did more drugs, forgot about him. Came up an hour
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: later and Nick was dead. You know, I've been reading
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: online and I want to go back to the Good Samaritan.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: While you're talking about I read a story about story
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: about a mom named Kim Farrennick. She lost her daughter
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Dana to a drug o d Now listen to Dana
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: what she is. On the high school swim team, a
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: cheerleader in junior high and high school, her whole life
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: ahead of her her. She got into a cycle of
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: addiction treatment relapse, addiction treatment relapse. She got her straight
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: out of one relapse and took her on a vacation
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: to Wildwood, and this is the part that broke my heart.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: She says, I remember this trip like it was yesterday,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: because for that week I felt like I had my
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: daughter back. But right after coming back home, she found
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: her daughter face down, cold and blue. She died of
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: an opioid overdose. She is pushing nolaxone. Dr Maroney, what
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: is an laxon? The Loxon is the generic name for
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: one of the brands Narcan. It's been out for forty years.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Surgery and the emergency room have used the lockson as
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: an injectable to reverse anesthesia and overdose in the hospital.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: We need to change the model. We need to put
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Jennoo or branded Narcan in every home in America to
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: prevent children, parents and spouses from dying. We have to
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: change that model. It must be in every house. And
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: this is so obvious because opioids have run rampant, and
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: the translation to heroin is transparent. It's it's just so easy.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: If you're taking high doses of opioids, it's simple to
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: crush them and check them or snort them, and as
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: soon as you do that, there's no difference than heroin.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: So people make that transfer. And the only way we're
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: going to stop people from dying is putting the lock
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: on or narcan in the homes. We have to educate
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: people with books and movies and videos. You know, I
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: wanna talk about the fact that Tim Ryan, so often
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: people get addicted or they try heroin or for the
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: first time because it's offered by a friend that they
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: know or a family member. That's that's how they get
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: into it. Tim, I I agree and with with prescription
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: pain pills. Of the kids that get started on pain
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: pills get them from a family member or a friend.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: So so Johnny on the track team hurts his knee
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and Dad says, well, you know what, I've got some
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Viking in from when I had my back surgery. Take
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: a few of these or these parents are having unused
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: prescriptions left in their medicine cabinets. Get rid of them.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Because Johnny comes over to cut your lawn and says, hey, Nancy,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: can I use your bathroom? Sure you can, Johnny. He
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: goes in. He's rifling through your cabinet, taking all your
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: unused prescription pain meds and and Narcan is essential. But
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I want to take Narcan a step further, it's a
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: tool to save a life. But what's happening. I just
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: had a kid over no Saturday night. His mother called me,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the paramedics came, they revived him, he refused to go
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: to the hospital, and they just left. They didn't bring
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: in any peer recovery support specialists to talk to this kid.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Twelve hours later, he overdosed again. See every time I overdosed.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: As soon as I got clarity, I was out of
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: the hospital. I would like to see a law put
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: into place whereof someone overdoses and it is brought back
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: by narcian through a paramedic or law enforcement, they're remanded
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: into treatment on the spot. If they did not have
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: that drug, they would be dead, and we're letting them
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: walk out of the hospital three hours later. It's so
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: important what he just said, because we do not let
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: people have oh heart attacks at home and say I'm
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: not going to go to the hospital before we head
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: back into fact finding. Thank you to another partner making
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: our program possible. And it is circle circle Circle with Disney.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so easy to just read a script
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: going through all of the features, but I want to
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: taught parent to parent. You know, we all know the
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Internet has so much to offer our children. They're going
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: to grow up only knowing a world with the Internet.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: That's not the way we grew up. But there are
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: parts corners of the Internet you don't want your children
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: going to. It's hard enough to monitor what your children
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: are up to online seven three sixty five. There is
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: an endless list of complicated, technical, expensive solutions that require
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: an I T tech pro to come install hardware and
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: software on your home. That if that affects everybody in
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the family. But there's an answer. It's Circle with Disney.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: It's a little device designed for families to manage content
• 36:42
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• 36:46
  Speaker 1: You can filter content, set up time limits. You can
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: even set a bedtime. It's easy to set up, which
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: is good for me and everybody in the family can
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: have their own setting, and that way your children don't
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: end up in scary parts of the Internet where you
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: don't want them to be. But mom and dad can
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: still use the Internet to get their work done. I mean,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I certainly don't want my children researching the spots I'm
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: on where I'm researching heinous crimes. I don't want them
• 37:12
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• 37:16
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• 37:20
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• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Internet a safer place for my two ten year olds.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Mark Tait is a high profile lawyer actually suing the
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: drug companies. Mark take Do you really think you've got
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: a chance? Think we have a chance because all of
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: the things that both Tim and Dr Maroney have been
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: talking about that are necessary and have become necessary to
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: handle all of the things that are going on because
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: of the intentional misconduct of the pharmaceutical companies and their distributors.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Those are the costs that we're talking about, and those
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: costs extend even to law enforcement that counties and cities
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: and states are bearing regarding every officer now having to
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: carry narci in, every first responder having to carry narcian,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: all of these issues about overdoses. We have instances in
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: which counties have have had to expand their corners units
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: in order to house the bodies of overdose victims in
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: places and counties that are fortunate enough to have their
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: own county public health systems. Huge costs are being borne
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: by the taxpayers ultimately in order to essentially subsidize the
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: vast profits of companies like a Mayor Sourcebergen and Cardinal
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Health and Produce Arma and Jansen Pharmaceutical, and all of
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: these companies are subjected to practices that are uniform in
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: the country. Acts that are uniform in the country Controlled
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Substances Act and Pharmaceutical Practices Act. But the issue is
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: and what we will overcome because of finally, community is
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: tired of bearing costs. Is what happened to the first
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: lawsuit you filed the Fulton County. One of the defendants
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: came to Fulton County and said, we want to open
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: a distributorship here, that there's this lawsuit pending. That company
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: forced Fulton County to dismiss their first lawsuit. Fulton County
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: finally said, no, we're spending too much money taking care
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: of overdosing people and outfitting our task force task force
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: and indigent burials that we're going to refile, and that
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: lawsuit is now pending again. And they're not the only one, Nanaso.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: So that's certainly a fine. How do you do that?
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: The government is spending too much money on indigent burials
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: because of overdoses. In other words, so many people are
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: are you dam they don't have enough money to pay
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: for their burials? Yes, yes, and yes and no? And
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: is that the true clux of the problem. And I'm
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: going to give you an example. Nancy in Barnstable over
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: in Cape Cod Barnstable Jail, when they release their inmates
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: who are addicts, they are now providing them with vivitral injections.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: It's an an abuse in addition to required therapy. And
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: these inmates, even though they've served their time and have
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: been released and their drug addicts, they are now giving
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: them vivitral. Vivitral is not cheap twelve hundred fifteen hundred
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: bucks in injection. I'm sure the jail is getting a
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: break on the cost. I don't know about that, but
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: it's expensive. So this is one community that's taking their uh.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: People who are coming out of jails who are drug
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: addicts and trying to rehab them. On the flip side,
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: people who are taking vivitral have last I've talked to
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: them where they said, yeah, but we can just use
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: another substitute drug or use some alcohol, and we know
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: how to plan it out, just to make it under
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: the wire of pretending that we're clean and sober when
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: they're not. So it's a double edged sword there. And
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: as far as varying UH, you know, indigent people and
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: so forth, a lot of the communities um in the lawsuits,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that's just take law firm. They want the
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: communities want to recoup the costs that they're spending extra
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: on emergency services and e R and e ER costs.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: So it's I don't think that's you don't think what's
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: why what? But I don't think. I don't think the
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: community saying about indigence indigent deaths is one reason why
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: they cannot invest in UH diversion programs. I think what
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: they're saying is that they're following the lawsuit because the
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: expense of opioid O days has become astronomical. Tim Ryan
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: as Dopeman, following up on something the net SOCA said,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: And I've been reading so many true life stories online
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: um and pairing them with the people I worked with
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: when I was prosecuting what you have to do to
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: break free of this? And one thing is uh, no alcohol,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: no smoking, nothing. Well, why is it so important that
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: you break ties with old friends, change your phone number,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: no alcohol, smoking, nothing, admit your mistakes and go to
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: narcotics anonymous meanings? Why are those steps so important? Because
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: you have to understand what the big misconception families have
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: is I sent my loved one to treatment. A The
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: average opean addict goes to treatment six times. So if
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: we then and that's why you know I'm with THREEHB
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: dot Com. I work for a treatment center because I
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: want people to come once and and hopefully grasp everything
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: but getting away the substances. You gotta work with the
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: underlying trauma. But then living recovery is a whole different
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: prink gamut. We need people going into long term, structured
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: sober living communities. They have to learn to put recovery first.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: May be in five years clean and sober, I still
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: attend four twelve step meetings a week. I still have
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: a sponsor, and I always sponsor at least one person.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: My job, my speaking events, right in a book. Everything
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: else I do is my career. My recovery is a
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: complete lifestyle. You need to change people, places and things.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: And I'll go back to my son Nick that died.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: We always had great insurance. We I didn't know I
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: could send my son out of state and put him
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: in a long term, ninety day program. He would do
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: three weeks. He's out the door to the same people,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: places and things. His chances of success were slim to none.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: In hindsight, I would have done things totally different, um,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: and that's what I'm trying to do now. But what
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: would you have done differently, Tim Ryan, I would have
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: got Nick on a plane and I would send him
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: down to Florida in a minute, or send him to
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: a long term treatment program like my program, Transformation Treatment Center,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: which is my employer. I can put someone in there
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: with good insurance on a ninety day structured program and
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: it's gender specific. He could do twelve step bats. He
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: can do Christian bas Well. I noticed the same thing, Tim,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: that when people would get out of jail, they just
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: go back because I guess they don't know what else
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: to do. They just go back to the same people
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: they knew before and history repeats itself. But I want
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: to ask you about the other issues. Why is it
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: so important that you don't have any alcohol, smoking nothing?
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: Why the addicts say that while you have to understand,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: once you have went into the opiate world, there's no
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: going back. So you get people that get on vivitral
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: and they might not have the cravings for opiates. But
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: that's another tool. You still need to be loving living recovery.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: But if I go back to smoking some weed drinking,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: I will ultimately go back after my drug to choice.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: If you sober up a horse seek, what do you have?
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: You have a sober thief. So you need to teach
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: that person how to live life without altering their mind.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: And what I asked people is what's so wrong with
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: you that you need to be altered? You need to
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: get to the underlining clauses and conditions. Um And I
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: looked at my life and I had a lot of trauma.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I was adopted. I had an older brother that was
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a narcissist to beat me up all the time. I
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: had learning disabilities. I was molosted by a female babysitter
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: at twelve. Boom, there's all my trauma that was never
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: dealt with drugs and alcohol became my solution. Why is it?
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Tim Ryan with A and E's dopeman also with me
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: William Dr William Moroney, author of American Narcan mark Tate,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: high profile lawyers suing drug companies, and investigative reporter for
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: crime stories n Nette Sosa. Why is it so important,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Tim Ryan that you change your phone number and break
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: ties with all of your older friends. That's hard to
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: do to him? Well, it is, And I'm gonna go
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: back to the people in prison or jail or county jails.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Here's the problem. You take me an opiate addict or
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: or an addict in general, and lock me in jail
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: for two years, give me no tools, no resources, and
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: release me within thirty days. I'm gonna be back to use.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: And that's what we do. We're creatures a habit in
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: our institutions. We meet need more twelve step based Christian
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: based smart recovery, refuge recovery therapeutic communities within the jail.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: We need drug pods so people can start working on
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: themselves why they're incarcerated, and we need wraparound services for
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: when they're getting out. The one key factor that people
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: don't have is jobs. They can't get a job because
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: they're a felling now. Um, they might not have graduated
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: high school and they have no opportunity. They have nothing
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: to look forward to, and they go back to what
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: they know. But you've got to change every aspect of
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: your life. Of the people I associate with our in recovery,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: I have no business being around people that. I don't
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: go hang out at bars, I don't go to parties.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I just have no business doing it. But it took
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: me a long time to want to change that. And
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: you don't have to go to the depths. I went
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: to a forty four years old getting sentenced to seven
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: years in prison. And I want families to know. And
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing it to plug my book, but if
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: you've got a family member struggling, go to Amazon get
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: my book A Man in Recovery From Dope to Hope
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: by Kim Ryan, and you will understand why that person
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: does what they do because I explain everything in there,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and it's a tool for people getting sober and active
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: addiction or family members that have a loved one strong one.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: I want to point out the statistic that Dr William
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Moroney first told me, author of American Narcan drug overdoses
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: into last year killed more Americans then the entire wars
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: in Vietnam and Iraq. The opioid epidemic last year killed
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: more Americans than the entire wars in Vietnam and Iraq.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,