Latest / The You Project / #1737 Making Sense Of Life - Dr Marc Cohen

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#1737 Making Sense Of Life - Dr Marc Cohen · The You Project

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: I get a Champs, it's jumbo, it's fatty Harps, it's
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: doctor Market's doctor Tiff over there at the Cook clinic.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Where what do you specialize in? Again, doctor Cook? What's
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: your specialty?
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: All of the things, punching in the face, noodling, whippets,
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: m yeah, angling, that's not.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: The ultimate therapy package.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah it is. It is.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: You don't really have much on the actual doc because
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: he's a doctor times three. He's got two PhDs and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: he's a medical doctor, so he's a doctor thrice, which
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: is I'm trying to become a doctor once. And that's
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the fucking academic Mount Everest for me. But how old
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: were you? Doc? Firstly, welcome Mark, How are you?
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: I'm great? Yeah, thanks for inviting me again.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: How old were you when you were a medical doctor
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: and you had your first and second doctorate?
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: At?
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: What age? Was that?
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Good question?
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: So I took time off my medical degree to do
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: a PhD.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Then I went back into my medical degree, so I
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: think it was about it might have been a twenty
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: eight when I did finish my first doctor I was
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: one of the youngest professors. I was a professor at
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: thirty seven, and then I had my second PhD and
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: my medical degree.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Wow wow, I love learning.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time at Union. I just
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: love learning. I'm interested.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: This is a dumb call. Maybe it's not a dumb question,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: but I know you can't be objective about you. But
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: are you highly intelligent, highly curious, very disciplined, very hard worker,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: or what is the overarching factor that allows you to
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: be a doctor? Times three?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I am curious And the thing I focused on my
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: whole life is fun, Like what is the most fun
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: thing to do? And I always thought it was more
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: fun to learn than to just work and make money.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: So I just I love being at UNI in that
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: environment and learning and learning new things. So for me,
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: it was about curiosity, what's the most fun? And I
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: studied medicine because I thought that would teach me how
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: to have fun in life, because I learned how to
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: body works and how the mind works. So that's my
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: That's really curiosity and a focus on fun. It's been
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: my sort of secret weapon.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: What's funny? You say that? No pun intended, funny cookie,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: feel free to jump in and out at will. So
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I just want to read what's on your on your
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: his could come back to haunt you. So on your homepage,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like you're under Whoever your pr person is,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: they need to do better. I assume it's you. There's
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: professor slash doctor Mark Cohen, wellness consultant, biohacker. Well, that
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: could be Brian down the road who's never been to UNI.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Talk about underselling yourself, but I guess you can't write
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: genius and you wrote Ibridge advanced science and ancient wisdom,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: and offer simple, practical solutions that help you find fun,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: make sense of life, master your mind and body, tame
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: your toxic load, live happy, healthy, and long. Now, I'm
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: sure you wrote that a while ago, but those five
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: things find the fun, makes sense of life, master your
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: mind and body, tame your toxic load, and live happy, healthy,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: and long. I want to lean into those in what
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: might become too small podcasts rather than big one one
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: big one. So are you ready to go? Because I
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: want to start with finding the fun?
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Sure, that's I'm always yeah.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: So that seems like a very interesting I don't know
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: that there would be too many people in the world
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: who have done medicine because they thought it might help
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: them have fun. I'm not saying it's not a good idea.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Where did that correlation come from in your head?
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  Speaker 3: I I think I've always been very strategic.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: And when I was in you know, I was I
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  Speaker 2: went to Melbourne High School and I was good academically.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I wasn't a genius. Academically, I good. I just didn't
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: have to get through in the top, you know, a
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  Speaker 2: few percent. But I really just thought about, Okay, I
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: could go to engineering or law or medicine. I thought, like,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: what's going to teach me how the most fun and
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: fulfilling life? And I saw people going into banking and
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: hedge funds and money. I was never really interested in
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: money for the sake of money. I thought, I want
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  Speaker 2: to learn how to engage in life and have the
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  Speaker 2: most fun with my body and to have been fulfilled
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: and be healthy and happy. And I figured medicine would
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: do that. So it was a strategic decision for me
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  Speaker 2: to get into medicine. And it wasn't about I never
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  Speaker 2: really wanted to help sick people get healthy. I wanted
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: to get healthy people super healthy. And I saw myself
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: as just an ordinary person. But so how can I
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: stay healthy? How can I improve with age? I remember
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: studying Chinese medicine, and you read about these Chinese martial
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: artists and meditation teachers who get better as they get older. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: you get these like seventy year old little martial art
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  Speaker 2: masters who throw twenty five year old buff guys around.
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  Speaker 3: And I want that.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I want to get better as I get older, and
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: that that curiosity sort of led me through this whole
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: part of Western medicine, Chinese medicine, engineering, and sort of
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: wellness practices.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: What year did you start medicine, do you remember? Okay,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: so that was your first year out of school. Yep, yeah,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: me too, wow, with the same age. And I guess
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the medical model correct me if I'm wrong. But back
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  Speaker 1: then was, as you alluded to, was very much, you know,
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  Speaker 1: treating sick people rather than promoting healthy very much reactive,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: not proactive.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: That's true. Health promotion was just a very nascent field then.
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  Speaker 2: You know, wellness wasn't even a word that you heard,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: so that's right. An alternative medicine was pretty sort of
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: out there.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: All right Back to our topic, finding the fun. So
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: what's the role of fun, laughter and joy in our
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: lives as you see it? Like, what are the and
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: what are the you know when we're in business, we
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: talk about features, advantages, and benefits, like here's an idea,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: here's a concept, here's a business model, or here's a product. Features, advantages, benefits.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: What what roles? I mean, other than the obvious that
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: fun is fun and we like laughter? What what role
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: can fun laughter enjoy play? And should we be strategic
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: about it?
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I think so so fun. It is often considered frivolous.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: You know, it's something you do in your leisure time.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: It's not a serious pursuit. But I think I have
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: an opposite view. I think fun is as a really
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  Speaker 2: basic biological, fundamental principle, and you have fun when you're
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: on the edge of your capacity and there's a whole
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: lot of you know, I tap into the research on
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: flow states. So we have a certain capacity and we
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: have certain challenges. And if your capacity is way beyond
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: your challenges, now it means you can do things easily,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: but you sort of get bored.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: You're not fully engaged, and you know you can do stuff.
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  Speaker 2: You're competent, but you're not really using one hundred percent
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  Speaker 2: of your capacity, and it's boring. If your challenges are
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: way above your capacity, it's stressful and you know you
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: can panic and you have anxiety because you know what
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: you need to do is beyond your skill set. But
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: when you hit a point where your capacity exactly matches
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: your challenges, that's that's fun, that's flow state. That's when
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: you're you're learning. And generally, what happens when your capacity
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: meets your challenges, your capacity naturally increases.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: You get because when.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: You're on that edge, you start learning stuff. And if
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: you have a look at little kids, you know, when
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: you're a kid, you're learning stuff and it's really enjoyable actually,
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: and I really believe you learn the most when you're
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: having fun with it. And that's pushing your boundaries as
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: a person. And it might be physical capacity, it might
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: be mental capacity, might be intellectual capacity. But when you
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: really find something that matches your capacity and it requires
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  Speaker 2: one hundred percent of your focus and attention and physical skills,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: that's when you're most engaged with life. That's when you're
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  Speaker 2: the most fulfilled by life. And that's when your body
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  Speaker 2: works as a single unit, and that's when you're healthiest.
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  Speaker 2: So these things are correlated. And generally what happens is
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  Speaker 2: as you get older, your capacity increases, so you need
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: bigger challenges, you end up doing more. And I find
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: now that I still don't know what I'm going to
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  Speaker 2: do when I grow up.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Options yeah, you and me, but I'm figuring out. But
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like that. Sorry, there's a real benefit in
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: consciously choosing, intentionally choosing to do hard things that you
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  Speaker 1: don't have to do, you know, like, oh, this is hard,
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  Speaker 1: but you know, I'm not talking about reckless hard. I'm
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: talking about strategic but still nonetheless difficult, you know, uncomfortable, unfamiliar,
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  Speaker 1: all that stuff. And it's in the doing of that
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  Speaker 1: and then inserting ourselves in the middle of that hard
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  Speaker 1: stuff that we become different.
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  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 1: It's like I put up something on social media this
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: morning and said something like, you know, we don't need
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: less pressure, we need more resilience. And it's then when
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: I'm more resilient. Because pressure is an individual experience, because
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you and I can be in the same situation. I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: feel pressured, you feel happy. So it's a subject of interpretation.
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  Speaker 2: It's a self creation, and that's your that's based on
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  Speaker 2: your capacity and your mental capacity of you know, knowing
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  Speaker 2: what you're able to do and actually and so I
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  Speaker 2: love learning that I can do stuff I didn't know
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  Speaker 2: that I could do it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really enjoyable.
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  Speaker 2: And you're right. By putting yourself in a difficult situation,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: whether it's going wake up in the morning, going for
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: a run and jumping in an ice bath, or putting
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: yourself in an uncomfortable position just to prove to yourself
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  Speaker 2: that you can cope with that, and practicing being relaxed
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  Speaker 2: in an uncomfortable situation builds that resilience, It builds that capacity,
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  Speaker 2: so you actually have more fun doing other stuff.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And the thing that was heavy for
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: you or hard for you, or difficult for you, or
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: painful for you becomes relatively doable and easy, even though
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: the stimulus is the same, or the weight is the same,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: or the temperature of the water is the same, or
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: the number whatever. But you're different. So the subjective experience
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: of that thing that doesn't change changes.
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  Speaker 2: That's it. And so has having spent longer in the
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: ice bark, or you have to do more than lift
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: heavier weight for whatever it is I was talking about.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I wrote this morning about something It's like when I first,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: like years and years ago, thirty years ago, when I
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: first started talking to big audiences, and by big for
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: me then you know, like one hundred plus people in
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: real time. I remember when I did Early Days in
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: my twenties, still like a gig with five hundred people,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: and I was so terrified there. I didn't sleep and
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I felt immense pressure, right, which that was I created it.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: It's just a room full of people, right. But now
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: in the same situation, I feel immense excitement and comfort
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and familiarity because I've done it. But it's the same
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: guy doing essentially the same thing in front of the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: same sized audience, but there is no pressure, when in fact,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: the only thing that has really changed is the creator
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: of the pressure. You know.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had similar experiences when I was younger. You
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: speaking to audiences and conferences and things. I guess you
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: don't want to embarrass yourself, and you know, you want
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: to be seen in a good light, so it's actually
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: you become very self conscious. Yes, But as I've gotten older,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: I realize, you know, if I'm speaking to big audiences,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: I'm really keen to share the content that I have
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: and to impart that, and it's a more of a dialogue,
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: so it's not about me trying to present myself, you know,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: and you are trying to present yourself as an authority
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: and deliver information and be seen in a good light.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: But it's more of actually engaging with the audience and
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: sharing content. And that's exciting to be able to share
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: that content. So it's more exciting than scary.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Is it true that we kind of naturally laugh less
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: as we get older? I feel like I read something
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: once it said kids laugh laugh. I don't know what
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: it is, eighty four times a day and adults laugh
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: on average twice or something like some huge discrepancy.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I think that I don't know the actual statistics. I'm
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: sure it's true. Kids have a lot more playtime you free,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: and kids learn. You've got The rate that kids learn
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: is way beyond what the rate that adults learn. And
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I really believe that you learn the most when you're
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: having fun, when you're laughing, when you're enjoying yourself, and
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that's when your capacity increases. And it's also that laughter,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Like even in the joke, you know, you get taken
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: down one route and then the punchline comes and tells
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: you something else and you're making these new brain connections. Oh,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that was connected to that, and that
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: creates a laughter response. With kids. When you're learning new stuff,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: it's enjoyable because you're making new connections in your brain.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: You're increasing your capacity to link things in life. And yeah,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: I think as we get older, we get ossified and
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: the entropy sets in. We become close systems, and then
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: we have chronic disease, we have inflammation, we have more
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: mental rigidity, and we don't laugh as much, we don't
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: have as much fun, and that's the tragedy of aging.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, yeah, And also that that minds that
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: almost like that, oh, well you're this old, therefore you
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: need to do these things and not do those things.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: It's like age appropriate behavior. Oh that's not age appropriate,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: age appropriate fucking clothing age. I'm like, what even is that?
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Well, that's social pressure, and that's caring about what other
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: people think. You're the same with public speaking. When you
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: care more about what other people think, you end up
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: compromising ye who are rather than just being who you are,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: being that naturally and let other people think what they want.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: And that's hard to do because where humans are social beings,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: we need other people around us to look after us
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: and take care of us. And respect us and think
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: that we're good. So to go through life and not
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: caring at all what other people think is actually a
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: really difficult thing to do. But it doing stuff because
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: of what other people think is actually a recipe for unhappiness.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: You can't control what other people think.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And isn't it amazing how much Tiff and I have
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: spoken about this, how much emotion we invest in caring
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: about what people that we don't know think or write
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: or comment. And it's like I could get one hundred
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: positive comments and one negative one and guess we'll get
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Guess what will get the attention, you know, and guess
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: what will get my emotional investment?
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Weary response.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: You really don't want to know the risks of a
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: small negative thing is potentially life threatening, so you don't
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: want to ignore, you know, or risks. But in the
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: modern world, because we can amplify our reach. You know,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know how many people are gonna hear this podcast,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: but you know, if you thought, Okay, I only want
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: to say stuff that every all the audience is going
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: to like, it's paralyzing, but you can't.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a very valid point. I I've quoted
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: this one of my professors in my first degree said
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: to me, mister Harpery goes, if you want to keep
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: everyone happy all the time, then say nothing, do nothing,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: be nothing, and stand for nothing.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: And then you're i'mhappy.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. So there's five parts to
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: this kind of I'll call it your mission statement. Find
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the one. Number two. Number one is find the fun.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Number two is make sense of life. Right, so, what
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: sense have you made of life?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I've made lots of sense of life. And I had
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: this sort of early in my medical career. I started
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: condensing knowledge into little mnemonics and little word games and
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: little tricks to compress meaning into a few words. And
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I've been doing that for nearly more than forty years now.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: And it ends up when you condense lots of meaning
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: into a few words, it ends up as poetry.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: So I've written all these I've shared poems I think
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: before with you.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: But I've tried to integrate the Chinese medicine philosophy and
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Chinese cosmology with Western scientific knowledge and bridge that and
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: come to an understanding of how you know. And it's
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: not a consequincence. There's five points to my sort of
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: mission statement. In both in Western and Eastern philosophy, they
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: lump things into five. You know, you've got five reason
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: So I actually lump a lot of things into five compartments, right,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: And I've when I decide well I'm going to do
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: in life. I came up with this a few years
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: ago now and really guides what I do. And there
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: are five aspects. So if I'm going to do something,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: it has to be fun. That's that's the that's like
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: the momentum, that's the driving force behind everything. Yeah, it
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: has to bring like fortune, and that's not just money,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: but it has to increase my resources. So fun and
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: fortune is measurable. They've got that the staccato, the fixed
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: in Chinese men to be wood element. It has to
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: bring fame and it has not that it has to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: be famous, but you want to leave a legacy of goodwill.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So when you do stuff, you want people talking good
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: things behind your back.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: M hm.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: So you're leaving a positive lee behind you of people
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: saying good things. So fun, fortune, fame, fluency, and that's
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: your own capacity to do stuff. How fluent are you
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: the language, how fluent are you with your body, your ability,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: your skill set, and the final thing is family and friendships.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: So I've got so many opportunities and things to do
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: in my life, and I get all these do this
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: or that, and if it brings fun, fortune, fame, fluency,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and friendships, I do it. If it doesn't bring all
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: those five, generally I don't. And then this podcast is
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: really fun for me. This is fun sharing my worldview.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: You know, hopefully people say good things about me. It's
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: not really going to be me and I don't get
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: paid for this, but you know, if it puts that
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: out in the world, it makes me fortunate. You know,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I'm very fortunate to be able to share my views,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: and that that then comes back. I've become more fluent.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: The more I practice talking, public speaking, talking and podcasts,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: it builds my capacity.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: And you know, now we're friends, so like, yeah, you.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Know what I love. I love the idea that so
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: you've done, you know, multiple degrees and you're a professor
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: and you know all this stuff, but at the same time,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: you're still like I would think most of your learning
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: has not been in an academic well a lot's been
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: in an academic environment, but maybe equal has been outside
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: an academic environment. And I'm I'm always trying to find
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: a way to share ideas and thoughts and occasionally scientific
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: principles or ideas in a way that resonates with people.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And I think you're really good at that. You're taking stuff,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: feel good at taking stuff that could be boring or
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: bland or complicated and distilling it into something that's really digestible,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: like emotionally, psychologically, behaviorally. Oh I get it, Like that's
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: not you know, I think finding no disrespect to academics,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: but finding academics that have that capacity to say, well,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: this is all the stuff I've learned, this is what
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I've been taught and told and trained, but also some
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: of that's bullshit a bit, and then there's this other
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: stuff that I didn't learn that's actually more helpful and empowering.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: And to bring that kind of like the mark distillation,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: like that synthesis of everything you've been taught and told
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: and trained on top of the stuff that you've experienced
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: and seen and been in the middle of to almost
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: create your own kind of philosophical platform.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Well, that's where well I have I mean, I've done
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you a lot of deep research into you know, ancient principles,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: because you know, early humans and our ancestors.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: You know, they knew stuff and they condensed that.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: So you know, I'm a student of history and of
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: medical history specifically, but also I've learned a lot just
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: from being I'm being a doctor. You're in a really
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: privileged position because you can talk to patients about anything.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: And I mean one of my mentors in the in
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties was the doctor Patch Adams.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: So you know him. Robin Williams paid him in the
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: movie and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: So I became good friends with Patch and he always
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: used to say that to be the best doctor, you
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: want to create an intimate relationship with your patients. So
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: as a doctor, if you're really holding space, you can
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: ask people about you know, their wildest dreams, their sexual fantasies,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: you know the color of their shit, you know their
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: childhood traumas, and they will tell you anything. I mean,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Pat Shadams used to go to patients and say he
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: used to go to their house and look through their
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: sock draw and ask them, do you have a personal diary?
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Can I take your diary home and read it so
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I can understand you better. And because of that intention,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: so you can actually build really intimate relationships with people
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: and everybody, every human is fascinating. You know, there are
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: no boring people. So when you actually have that intention,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: you actually learn what makes people tick. There's a lot
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: of learning in that. So medicine was a great feal
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: to go into it to learn about people. And I've
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: learned so much from my patients. And because when you're
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: seeing people, especially and sick people that they're scared, they're
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: in pain, they're anxious, So you actually see people at
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: their worst. But the interaction you can have with them
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: is super meaningful. So if you help them out of
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: that situation, that they'll remember you for a long long
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: time afterwards, you know, perhaps for the rest of their
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: life because you have helped them in this difficult situation.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: So to have that many for impact with people teaches
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: you something. But it also it filters into your own capacity,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: of your skill set, but dealing.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: With other things in life.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: So being the doctor's very privileged position, but you learn
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: most of well, I learned most of my medical information
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: not from what I learned at UNI, but from actually
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: being with people. And I've done that in a lot
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: of different environments. So you know, I've worked in emergency departments.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: I've worked at general practice, I've worked at festivals, I've
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: traveled the world. I've worked in different alternative medical settings,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: and you know, I've learnt in all of them.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sure. The answer to my next question is, well,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: lots of things. But is there one thing that springs
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: to mind when I say, what's something that you've changed
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: your mind about, like maybe a significant thing that you
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: think A and now you think fucking Z.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great I think you asked me that
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: once before, and that's a really great question, and I
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: need to do better.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Well, well, I've always been very contrarian.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: So I remember when Marjorine came out and you know,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: they was saying that's better than but I said, bullshit,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: you know, but it's the best, you know, so and
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: and then there was, you know, the fights against that.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: The whole medical world was, you know, low fat guys,
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: and I was, that's bullshit. You know, I've seen through
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff that the medical world was sort
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: of touting and then they've changed, the medical world has
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: changed your mind. But I've always had that opposite view.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, one of the things that I'm just learning now,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I mean I used to think that the whole financial
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: world was all just bullshit and irrelevant and not not irrelevant,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: but it was. It was a scam that you couldn't
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: get into. And I was never really focused on money,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: and that now I've actually been, you know, throughout the pandemic.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: In the last few years, I've been studying the history
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: of money and that's been really interesting. And now I mean,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I'm proponent of bitcoin, and I'm super fortunate because I
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I turned sixty this year. I got my
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: super I dumped it all into bitcoin. That's been sensational
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: for me.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Hang on, when did you dump it? In? What months?
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: I was from March onwards. I sort of had too good.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Good time to dump because you've already doubled your money,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: haven't you.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well almost, yeah so.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: But then but learning about that there is a form
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: of money that actually represents value, that that's not controlled
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: by governments, and that whole world, the whole world of
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: economics and finances, I really wasn't interested in it, and
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: now become interested in in the power to change people
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: for the bet for the for the better and actually
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: have a good effect in the world. So that's that's
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: been a real learning for me at the moment, because
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: in the past, I've just you know, I mean, I
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: didn't really even though I did medicine, mostly a lot
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: of people do medicine. Of the status and the money,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: you know, I was, I was a university student for
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: thirty years. You don't make money doing that. Money wasn't
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: really high in my priorities. But now it's like, oh wow,
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: money is a force of good in the world, or
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: can be a force of good in the world when
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: it's egalitarian and decentralized and not controlled by people with
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: the puppet strings. So that's that's been a real change
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: in my life. And I guess I'm you know, I'm
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: super fortunate because as she always thought that by the
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: time I retired, or but by to my actress, my
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: super the whole financial system is going to collapse. And
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: now I see, okay, we're gonna have this nice transition
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: or nice condition, and I'm really optimistic about the future.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: So that that whole attitude towards money has changed. Not
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: that you know, I'm I'm really focused on money now,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: but it's like I just just have a lot of
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: disdain for that whole world. And now I've got more
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: respect to seeing the positive things that can happen. But
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: what else have I changed my I mean I used
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: to be a I mean I've never been political, you know,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: left or right or anything. But I was really brought
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: into the whole climate debate and carbon dix side and
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff and thinking we have to
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: do sustainability. But I never thought about it from the
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: climate or carbon doxide perspective. Always thought about from a
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: toxicity perspective. Yeah, And but I was, you know, I
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: used to talk a lot about pustainability in the wellness
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: world and looking at you.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Know, water usage and carbon dox side admission.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: But now I'm changed my tune on that. But I'm
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: really I mean that one of the items on my
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: you know, my mission statement is to debtain your toxic load.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: How can we have it's toxicity, So that that's that's
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: been a focus. But I have changed my my attitudes
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: a little bit about I mean, I'm into you know,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: saving power and you know, not wasting not wasting things,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: but not because it's going to change the climate or
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: you know, overpopulation and all those sort of issues. You know,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I think we need more people. I think people are
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: an asset on the world.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: So that's I guess.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: No.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I really have great hope for people, and I used
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: to think I used to discount a lot of people.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Just think ninety people and muppets, and.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: That doesn't bode well for you, and itiv. Hey, we've
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: got to wind We've got to wind up. But I
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: want to ask you one I just want you to
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: riff for a few minutes on this very commonly spoken
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: about idea, which is, seeing as we're talking about making
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: sense of life, which is life purpose, everyone is like
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: this kind of I don't know, this spiritual thing that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: we've got to find our life purpose under some mystical
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: rock somewhere, or or maybe we choose it and create
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: it and then live it. What are your thoughts on
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: that as an idea.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: I think it is great to have a purpose. And
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I think one of the greatest things I've had in
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: my life is a focus. You know, I've focused on
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: fun and I've done that through the sort of the
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: container of medicine. So that's been a great act. And
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: because I've done this for forty years now, you know,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I've sort of propelled myself far down that route where
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of people they don't know what they want
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: in life. And I'm a big fan of Joseph Campbell
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: who says, follow your bliss and which is similar to
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: my saving, you find the fun. You know, if you
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: find your fun in life, that will guide you to
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: where you're going to get the most fulfillment and the
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: most learning and the most enjoyment. And also you're going
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: to be the most asset to other people. And in
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: my life, I've always said, rather than fighting what I
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: don't want, I'm actually going to work towards what I
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: do want. What you don't want, you're focusing on something
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: that's not fun, you know, it's something that's negative, and
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: you're fighting all the time. Whereas if you're focusing on
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: what you want, you're focusing on something that's fun, that's enjoyable,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: that you're aiming for and working towards that is actually
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: really rewarding. So having a purpose in life is finding
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: what you want and working towards that, and that and
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: the guide for what you want to focus on. I
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: used to have a lot of discussions with PhD students
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: and you know, career decisions, and I love those discussions
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: because you, again, a little discussion can put someone on
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: a whole trajectory towards a whole different life purpose. But
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: you know, telling people what do you love doing that
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: When you're doing it, you lose track of the time.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: And once something you read, when you're reading it, you know,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: you're just you're reading up all night because you're staying
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: up or not reading that because that's you're really interested
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: in that. They're the things you want to focus on.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: That's where you'll find your purpose, that's where you'll find
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: your fun, and that's where you'll get the most learning,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: the most rewarding life by focusing on the things that
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: you really enjoy that turn you on.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: So that's.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's as far as a purpose. It doesn't
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: have to be a big goal. I'm going to change
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: the world on you know, Elon must want to get
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: to Mars or whatever it is. But it's it's finding
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: and it can be just built in creating a family,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: bring stuff with the kids, creating a beautiful environment. But
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: the things that you enjoy, focus on them, and the
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: things that you don't want in the world, let them
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: just you.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Pass you by last one just quickly sixty seconds. Is
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: contentment sustainable?
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Or is it transient, Like can we just because it
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: seems like us humans a lot of us wherever we are,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: it's not where we want to be. Whatever we have,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: it's not what, it's not enough, whatever we achieve. It's
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: got to be a bit more like it seems like
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: contentment eludes us.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's you're going to balance between the
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: present and the future. So you know, you can be
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: content in the moment, but you still want to work
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: towards something in the future, and that that's that's a
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: real it's a paradox because you want to you want
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: to be in the moment one hundred percent right now,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: but you're still working towards the potential future. And we
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: have to we have to snap between the two. And
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: that's the paradox of being human, where when you're when
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: you're totally in the moment, when you're totally in flo
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: you're not actually thinking that's contentment. But when you start
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: to think of the past or the future, then you're
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: not happy and you have to change things and we
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: and we need to do both, and I think we
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: need a balance. So you want to balance being fully
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: content in the moment, just happy with where you are
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: and how you are, but also working towards a better future.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: That's why we get you. Hey, mate, we appreciate you.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming to play on the
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: U project again. Do you want to direct our audience
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: to your website or any other source or tool that
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: you want to point them out?
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: My website's doctor Mark D M A r C dot
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: co dot co. I'm a little bit active on LinkedIn
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: and Facebook, but very Sometimes when I travel and do stuff,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I put out a lot. Sometimes I don't put out
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: much at all, but yeah, doctor Mark dot com. I've
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: got a few businesses. We make combuch vinegars and tonics
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: and water filters, and I've got children's books and I've
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: got poetry free poetry on my website. So yeah, people
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: can check me out on my website. They can email
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: me if they want to through my website if they
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: want to connect.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: But yeah, thanks for inviting me on. It's always it's
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: always a pleasure.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks mate. We appreciate you. Thanks to Thanks boys,