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Hayden Panettiere Fatal Drugs Labeled "Brian," Damning Texts Revealed · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: TV and movie star Hayden Panettiere's fatal drugs labeled Brian.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Let that sink in. Bags of drugs like Chipotle, you know,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: it puts your name on it when you go pick
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: it up. Bags of drugs delivered like pizza, like Chinese
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: food to Hayden Panettiere. allegedly labeled Brian. This as Hayden
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Penn had two years on off again boyfriend Brian Hickerson
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: being grilled by the DEA. What a coincidence. And tonight,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: damning text revealed. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Hayden Panettiere is a child actress who went on
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: to great success. She detailed her substance abuse issues.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Sadly, Hayden was found unresponsive on Sunday in an apartment
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: in Greenville, South Carolina.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: She really told the world who she was beyond the superstar,
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: the actress that we all thought we loved.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: By the time I was five, I was in a
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: soap opera by four years old. And it just never stopped.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: And it was every moment on set, I didn't care
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: about anybody else's opinion but my mom's. Because I knew
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: that if she was unhappy with my performance in any way,
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: that the rest of the day was going to be ruined.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: It was going to be a very bad day.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: From our friends at CBS, damning text revealed tonight. Are
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: the dope dealers and the recipients that stupid that they
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: think we're not going to look at texts in black
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: and white? Has nobody ever heard? If you don't want
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: it on page six of the New York Post, don't
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: put it in writing. Are they really that dumb? Apparently
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: they are. This as we are learning tonight that drugs
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: were delivered, possibly the poisonous drug, Delivered to Hayden Panettiere
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: like pizza and Chinese food in bags labeled Brian. Joining me,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: an all-star panel to make sense of what we are
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: learning tonight. We are also learning that this investigation has
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: developed into a cross-country investigation involving the feds, particularly the DEA,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: the Drug Enforcement Agency. Straight out to Dave Mack, Crime
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter. What can you tell me about bags
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: of drugs? being delivered to Hayden Panettiere's Hollywood Hills home,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: were they paper bags or were they so bold as
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: to hold up plastic bags where you could see the drugs? No,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: let's go with paper bags. But we do know that
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: eyewitnesses state they were labeled Brian and the boyfriend, Brian Hickerson,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: grilled by the DEA. What do you know?
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: All right, Nancy, everything you just said is accurate. Between
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: 2021 and 2026, August, the neighbors of Hayden Panettiere in
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: her West Hollywood condo noticed two women in their early
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: 20s and one man in his mid-30s showing up regularly
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: with bags. They would stop and deliver, not together, by
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: the way, all separate, but the same three people. And
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: they would deliver bags to Hayden. They'd knock on the door,
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: she'd grab the bag, go back in. In the last week,
• 3:49
  Speaker 5: we're talking the days before Hayden died, the drug dealer
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: or the guy that they recognized as the person who
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: was regularly there bringing bags, showed up with a bag.
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: This one had Brian written on the bag and delivered
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: that to Hayden's door. That was in the days before
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: the cross-country flight.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Look at that, Dave. Hold on. Hold on. I just
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: want you to look at that. That's what we're talking about.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: The deliveries... to Hayden Panettiere's West Hollywood home. It's beautiful, right?
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: This is from our friend Harvey Levin at TMZ. He
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: went by and got this snap. Look at it. It's beautiful,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: a contempo, surrounded by these beautiful, apparently Japanese magnolias. Gorgeous, right?
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: You know what, Dr. Bethany, I'll come right back to you,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack. It's so misleading. This is your neck of
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: the woods, Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us there in L.A.,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Beautiful on the outside, a hellhole on the inside. And
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I don't mean the beautiful furnishings or the thick carpets
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: or the Persian rugs. I'm talking about what's going on.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: The drugs delivered like an effing pizza. Illegal drugs. And
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: now she's dead. Everyone enabling her.
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: Everybody enabling her.
• 5:13
  Speaker 6: And you know why?
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: She was under the control, allegedly, of Brian Hickerson. And
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: money and power and greed, when there's a celebrity, everybody
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: gathers around and gives them whatever they want, or they
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: push what they don't want. Nancy, I've driven by that
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: building so many times.
• 5:30
  Speaker 6: It is gorgeous.
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: It's near the Beverly Center. It's near a design center.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: It's near all these Michelin rated restaurants. It is a gorgeous,
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: gorgeous community. It's near Melrose with all these beautiful shops,
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: but you would never know driving by that you have
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: a child star who's learned that her self-esteem rises and
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: falls on the smiles and frowns of others because that's
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: how she was made to feel growing up, who now
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: has all these hangers on who not only get her
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: out to do things she doesn't want to do, but
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: they deliver the poison straight away. to her, and you
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: know what's underneath it? Again, Nancy, as I said earlier, power, money,
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: and control. If they render her helpless and addicted, they
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: can get whatever they want from her.
• 6:17
  Speaker 7: We know that the Los Angeles unit of the DEA
• 6:21
  Speaker 7: is taking a hard look at this drug dealer, and
• 6:25
  Speaker 7: charges could be filed if they can link the drug
• 6:29
  Speaker 7: that Hayden took to the death and whether the drug
• 6:33
  Speaker 7: was laced with fentanyl. Now, the caution here is that
• 6:38
  Speaker 7: the toxicology results have not come in.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: That's Harvey Levin over at TMZ. Now we know why
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the DEA is involved. You were earlier hearing from Dr.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall.
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Bethany, you were discussing the dichotomy of how you drive
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: by and see her beautiful home and I believe you
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: said the Michelin-starred restaurants and the beautiful landscaping while there's
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: a hellhole going on inside. Now, we just heard Harvey accurately.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Harvey's not a talking head. He's also a lawyer. Bethany,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: you heard Harvey talking about the drug dealer. But hold on.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: It's not just the drug dealer and Hayden Panettiere. It's
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: all of her circle. Those bags, according to eyewitnesses, and
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: you just heard Dave Mack corroborating it, Had the name
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Brian on them. Those drugs were delivered to Brian, according
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: to the eyewitness. All right.
• 7:42
  Speaker 8: The middleman.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Just like in Matthew Perry, you've got the dealer, who's
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: the ketamine queen, who, for all of her finery and
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: her Gucci and her Prada, she's just a pimp. She's
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: a doper. Like a doper out on the street. I
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: don't care what she looks like. or how much it
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: cost to get her hair straightened out. She killed him.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: She supplied it, and the assistant handed it over on
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: a silver platter. Same thing here, according to eyewitnesses. Dr. Bethany?
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: You know, it's true, Nancy, and I do house calls
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: to celebrities' homes because they don't want to go out
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: and have to deal with the paparazzi. And what I
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: see in their homes is, is that everybody wants something
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: from them. Everybody is getting something. So the vibe in
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: the homes is very kind of creepy and underhanded. And
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: so when you think of these bags being delivered to Brian,
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: why would he procure drugs for her? Not just because
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: of an alleged addiction, Nancy. It's because if he re-addicts her,
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: then he can continue to control her. If he can
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: control her, he can get her money. Remember, she paid
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: him to be her assistant for many years. He was
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: on the payroll, Nancy. And so this is a little
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: bit like a pimp kind of sex trafficking somebody out
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: that they will do whatever it takes to keep the
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: victim helpless so they can profit from them. in some way.
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: And that's what I see here. But probably what we're
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: going to see is that there are multiple, multiple people.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Profit in some way. She was his meal ticket. He
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: might as well have punched a clock like I used
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to do at Sears and Roebuck before I could go
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: out on the floor. That was his meal ticket. He
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: was leeching and living off her. And I don't want
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: to even hear it, Randolph Rice. Randolph Rice joining us.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: And yes, I'm angry. People say, why don't you smile?
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not smiling. because Hayden Panettiere and so many like
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: her are dead, because someone supplied her poison pills, which Dr.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Maroney is going to explain, handed it over to an aide,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: that might as well have just stuck it in her
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: mouth and gave her a straw to suck on. Randolph
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Rice is a veteran trial lawyer, founder of RiceLawMD.com. Rice,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I guess you're going to try and tell me how
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the enabler, and yeah, I'm talking about the boyfriend who
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: is innocent tonight until proven guilty. The drugs had his
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: name on them. He gets them. Are you telling me
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I can't prosecute him for his alleged role in this?
• 10:36
  Speaker 9: Probably not unless you can prove that he's actually the
• 10:38
  Speaker 9: one distributing them.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Ms.
• 10:39
  Speaker 9: Panettiere could have been the one that actually ordered them,
• 10:42
  Speaker 9: but the name on the bag does not bring in
• 10:45
  Speaker 9: criminal liability for the boyfriend at this point in time.
• 10:48
  Speaker 9: There has to be some sort of connection between Mr.
• 10:51
  Speaker 9: Hickerson getting the drugs and then either giving them, selling
• 10:55
  Speaker 9: them to her.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. You know what, Randolph? I'm going to play along
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: with you.
• 11:00
  Speaker 10: All right.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Quick lightning round of questions to Dave Matt, Crime Stories
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter. Connection, Brian Hickerson, a.k.a. Brian, whose name was
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: on the bag of dope. To Hayden Panettiere, lightning round,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that means you say yes or no, to the best
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: of your ability. Okay, Dave Mack, isn't it true that
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Brian Hickerson, the boyfriend, was in the home when Hayden
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Panettiere was found unresponsive? Yes, no. Yes. Isn't it also true,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Dave Mack, that conflicting reports were given about how she
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: was discovered dead?
• 11:44
  Speaker 6: Dead.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: One report said she was sitting in a chair. One
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: report said that Hickerson woke up and there's a dead
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: body next to me. How did that happen? Isn't that true?
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And isn't it true that there are conflicting reports about when, where,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: why Narcan may have been administered to Hayden Panettiere? Isn't
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: that true? Conflicting reports.
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: And last but not least, isn't it true that the boyfriend,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Brian Hickerson, admits to violence on Hayden and basically said, hey,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: everybody does it. Pull that sound for me while I'm
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: getting his yes, no. Hit me. Yes, no.
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: Yes. Yes.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I've got one more question. And isn't it true that
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Hickerson is the one That gave the bag of meds
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: to police. Hayden's bag of meds.
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Randolph Rice, what were you saying about no
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: connection between Hickerson and dope and Hayden Panettiere?
• 13:01
  Speaker 9: There has to be something more there, Nancy. And right now,
• 13:03
  Speaker 9: if the DEA or the South Carolina Police Department thought
• 13:07
  Speaker 9: that he somehow was supplying, then he would be in
• 13:10
  Speaker 9: bracelets right now. He would be in jail. But they
• 13:12
  Speaker 9: don't believe that there's a connection there between what we
• 13:15
  Speaker 9: now are hearing is a drug dealer in Los Angeles
• 13:18
  Speaker 9: and that flow, that evidence chain to Mr. Hickerson and
• 13:23
  Speaker 9: then to Hayden.
• 13:24
  Speaker 8: What I did, you know, and I just want people
• 13:29
  Speaker 8: to know, I mean, like, People do this all the time,
• 13:34
  Speaker 8: you know?
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: It's like, you think I'm the only one that did that? No.
• 13:40
  Speaker 8: People do that all the time.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I'm having flashbacks to people just like him in court.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It would be speechless. That's from our friend Harvey at TMZ. Crispin,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you know, I asked the rhetorical question at the get-go.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Are they that good? Stupid that they think they can
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: put this in writing and text and we won't look
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: at the text. But I think that video right there
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: from Harvey Levin over at TMZ kind of answered my question.
• 14:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Is he high in the video?
• 14:14
  Speaker 6: He certainly looks like he's under the influence. So, you know, Nancy,
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: this is kind of like a double fold question. If
• 14:19
  Speaker 6: I can go back to why he's not in jail
• 14:22
  Speaker 6: right now, you know, the government may have probable cause
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: to arrest you, but they're not going to put you
• 14:29
  Speaker 6: in jail yet because we need you out on the
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: street to continue the investigation. And we need you as
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: a very important component to take this case farther. We
• 14:39
  Speaker 6: don't know what he told the DEA, but he definitely
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: has a problem running his mouth. So I'm going to
• 14:44
  Speaker 6: say no. There's a very good possibility that the agents
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: who interviewed him got a plethora of information from him.
• 14:51
  Speaker 6: So I would keep him out on the street.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Am I losing my mind or did you say plethora?
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: You mean plethora?
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: Plethora. Thank you.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: That cleared it up.
• 15:02
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: You know what I think, Robert Crispin, we know when
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: you don't know a horse, look at his track record.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: This guy just, I guess he's never heard of the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: fifth amendment. I think you're right. I can only pray
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the DEA got a tap on him because, you know,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: he's blabbing left and right, and it ain't all to
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: his lawyers, basically anybody that will listen. Guys, this is
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Robert Crispin joining us, former fed with the DOJ, former
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: DEA agent, former vice, former homicide in Miami, never lack
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: of business there, now runs, owns, created Crispin Special Investigations. So, hey,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: wait a second, I've got to ask Dr. Maroney something,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: but I'm about to be joined by an expert in
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: extracting texts from phones. Dr. William Maroney, you know, with
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: your education and your experience, I hate to ask you
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: such rudimentary questions such as this. Maroney is a medical examiner.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: He's a toxicologist, a pathologist, an opioid treatment expert. He
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: is the author of American Narcan, which is all about Oxy, Narcan,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: how to use it, how to treat people. Yes, I've
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: got so many questions. Help me circle back to you, Dr. Maroney,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: about how I can tell whether Hayden Panettiere was administered
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Narcan before her death or post-mortem when it would still
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: be attached up here in the nose but not in
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the body. But In your world, you know, you got
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: that traveling van that you take everywhere, that huge mobile
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: unit treating opioid victims. Is this guy high? Because he
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: sure sounds like he is.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Not only is he high, but he's high and I
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: think guys that talk out of the side of their
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: mouth are trying to evade the truth. That's a body
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: language thing I've picked up on. High and there's no validity.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: You know, Dr. Maroney, when we were doing a live
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: chat during the program and somebody said, who is this
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: guy talking about Oxy? And I wrote back as quickly
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: as I could. He's a world renowned expert that wrote
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: the book on it. That's who he is. But aside
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: from your book and all of your years of experience
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: and your education, can I just let you explain in
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: a nutshell? It's very small. how you and your mobile
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: unit travel to treat Oxy overdoses and educate people about Oxy. Nutshell.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: The most important thing to do to prevent overdoses is
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: to get people into treatment. And our mobile unit has
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: a history of treatment. When you're taking your medicine every day,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: you can't overdose. The second most important thing is the
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: distribution of Narcan, but you have to give it to
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: people who are at high risk and you can't use
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: it on yourself once you start falling out. So we
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: tell people, if you're going to use illegal drugs, don't
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: use them alone so somebody can Narcan you. That's the
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: two most important things, treatment and then prevention in that order.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: In rural America, we don't have the resources that you
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: have in the cities. So you have to bring the sources,
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the resources, the counseling, and the medicine to rural America.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And in the past, what we've tried to do is
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: 10 days a month.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Okay. Number one, the operative word was nutshell. But because
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: of you, we have Narcan in our home. We have
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Narcan because my mom, if you could see an x-ray
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: of her back, Dr. Maroney, it looks like a capital C.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: She has horrible back and leg pain. And she takes Oxy.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: We're very careful. We count the pills. Because, you know,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: she's getting on to be 95. We have it in
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: case a granny nanny gets off count and gives her
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: one pill too many. She can't take it.
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: What?
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Pain patients are also at risk. So pain patients should
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: have Narcan in case there's an accident there too.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: Crispin, isn't one of the first things you do is
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: to try to grab the defendant or the deceased cell
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: phone and try to look at it?
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: A hundred percent. Absolutely. The ticket to the entire case
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: is an electronic device, especially of this magnitude, Nancy.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: I just hope that the law enforcement, and I'm not
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: shading them, I hope they were veterans that went to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: that scene and knew to grab all the devices and
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: under the law, when a crime has occurred or you
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: think a crime may have occurred, you've got a dead body,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: you've got two conflicting reports about how the body was found.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I would grab every device, cell phones, laptops, iPads, PlayStations,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: everything that was in that Lux Airbnb.
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: Maybe you don't need.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: It as evidence, but maybe you do.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: What?
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: Listen, they have all those devices. Clearly they have the devices.
• 20:23
  Speaker 6: And for all these text messages to already come out
• 20:26
  Speaker 6: in such a short amount of time, I'm going to
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: probably believe that Brian gave the police department her Her code,
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: he probably knew her cell phone code. So once they
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: have the code, and there's a couple of different programs
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: out there, Nancy, that could have broke that phone, Gray
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: Key being one of them. But once they get the
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: code to that phone, then you apply for a search warrant.
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: Once that search warrant is signed, then you're going to
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: put that phone into a second system called Cellbrite. Cellbrite
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: is going to download that. All the text messages, all
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: the documents, all the photos. And the most important thing,
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: if you remember, they'll get all the deleted text messages.
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: Anything that's deleted on that phone, they're going to get.
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: GrayKey is a phenomenal program and application that allows law
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: enforcement to plug the phone in and let it run.
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: And it's going to hammer at the phone a series
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: of different passwords. Thousands, millions of passwords are going to
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: go through that phone until they break it. The problem
• 21:30
  Speaker 6: with GreatKey is, and they usually ask the family, you know,
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: what's her favorite color? What's her favorite dog? What's her
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: favorite restaurant, her food? A lot of these things will
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: already get inputted to see if any of those keywords
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: are part of her passwords. If they don't have it,
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: GreyKey will get it. But the only problem with GreyKey
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: is the fastest I think anyone's ever gotten locked into
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: a phone, into a locked phone, was about 30 minutes.
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: The longest was six months that I know of.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Ooh, okay, that hurts. You know what? I want to
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: explain it in depth. You hear Crispin, who has all
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the street knowledge in the world about grabbing the devices,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: what you can use to crack the devices, Now joining us,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: in addition to Crispin, I'll circle back with you, Dave Mack,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: about the significance of the texts that have now been revealed,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: because we're going to find out who the drug dealers
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: were delivering the poisonous drugs to, who was texting them.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Was it Hayden Panettiere, or was it one of her enablers?
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: With us, Dr. Jim Jones out of Herndon, Virginia, cybersecurity
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: digital forensics expert. Digital Forensics Program Director, Professor, George Mason University.
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Jones, thank you for being with us. You know, when
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Crispin rattles it off like that, it sounds so easy.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: You just put it through GrayKey or Celebrite. Well, you
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: know what? It's not always that easy. Remember the Alex
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Murdoch case? We had to bring in the Secret Service
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: to crack that phone. And if anyone used encryption, basically,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: technical legal term, we're screwed. Okay, so Dr. Jones, try
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: to talk and regular people talk so even I can
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: understand it. Okay, no complicated jargon. And we just showed
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: you a picture of a UFEB, which is a universal
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: forensic extraction device. But you don't just hook the phone
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: into it. It's not that easy. Hit it, Dr. Jones.
• 23:39
  Speaker 10: It can be that easy. So if it's a short pin,
• 23:42
  Speaker 10: like a four-digit pin, and if the phone is not
• 23:45
  Speaker 10: set to start to slow down the guesses or eventually
• 23:49
  Speaker 10: erase itself, which is an optional setting in the phone,
• 23:53
  Speaker 10: then it can be that easy. Often, it's not. So
• 23:57
  Speaker 10: the first step would be figure out if the phone
• 23:59
  Speaker 10: is going to erase itself if I put 10 bad
• 24:03
  Speaker 10: guesses in. They won't just go and plug it in
• 24:05
  Speaker 10: without checking that. If it is set that way, they
• 24:09
  Speaker 10: need the pin to get to it. Physical access with
• 24:13
  Speaker 10: a modern smartphone is not enough. to get the data
• 24:18
  Speaker 10: if it's locked when law enforcement sees it. There's a
• 24:21
  Speaker 10: little bit of stuff that remains available for the locked phone,
• 24:25
  Speaker 10: but all the stuff that we want, the legal text messages,
• 24:28
  Speaker 10: the intact text messages.
• 24:29
  Speaker 11: Pictures, deleted and active, all that kind of stuff is
• 24:33
  Speaker 11: going to be, by default, encrypted on a chip that's
• 24:37
  Speaker 11: stored in the device.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Okay, I believe I mentioned something, Dr. Jim Jones, about
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: regular people talk, and you've already lost me. All right,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: hold on. I think I can recap up to here.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: If there's a short pin, like 1, 2, 3, 4, which,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: believe it or not, people still use, or they leave
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: their devices on factory setting, please stop doing that. Short pin,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: then it may be easier. If the phone is not
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: set to erase the code after a certain number of
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: false tries, you also stated physical access to the phone
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: is not enough. And I think what you mean by
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: that is you've got the phone in your hand, and
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: you may know the four-digit PIN, that that's not enough
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: to get at what, Dr. Jones?
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: Good distinction, Nancy.
• 25:32
  Speaker 11: If you have physical access to the phone and you
• 25:34
  Speaker 11: have the PIN, whether it's four or six digits or biometric,
• 25:38
  Speaker 11: and you can unlock the phone, then absolutely we can
• 25:41
  Speaker 11: get to all of the data that is still there.
• 25:45
  Speaker 6: So deleted messages, pictures.
• 25:47
  Speaker 11: Videos will stay around for a somewhat unpredictable amount of time.
• 25:53
  Speaker 11: And so the sooner we seize the phone, the sooner
• 25:55
  Speaker 11: the phone is not.
• 25:56
  Speaker 6: Creating new content, the better our chances of.
• 25:59
  Speaker 11: Getting that to be deleted in the process of being
• 26:02
  Speaker 11: deleted stuff. So with the PIN and physical access, we
• 26:06
  Speaker 11: can get it all.
• 26:07
  Speaker 6: And that's what these devices do is you.
• 26:09
  Speaker 11: Plug it in, you give it the PIN, And the
• 26:12
  Speaker 11: device will dump all of the content, deleted and active.
• 26:15
  Speaker 12: There are certain things that you need the password to do,
• 26:18
  Speaker 12: such as delete activity. But if you don't have a
• 26:21
  Speaker 12: password and you pick up your phone, if you're touching
• 26:23
  Speaker 12: the screen, that leaves a trace. If you're trying to
• 26:26
  Speaker 12: power it off, that leaves a trace. So we should
• 26:29
  Speaker 12: be able to see people without a password trying to
• 26:32
  Speaker 12: actively interact with that phone, as well as someone that
• 26:34
  Speaker 12: has it.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: So we would do a forensic acquisition. And that's really
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: important here.
• 26:38
  Speaker 12: Someone just looking in the phone, You can get a glimpse,
• 26:41
  Speaker 12: but you can't see what's deleted and hiding below the surface.
• 26:44
  Speaker 12: We need a forensic acquisition to do that. We can
• 26:47
  Speaker 12: tell if it was just soft deleted, so like sitting
• 26:50
  Speaker 12: in a trash can.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Or a hard delete.
• 26:52
  Speaker 12: So if you empty your trash on your phone and
• 26:54
  Speaker 12: then you go and throw it into a dumpster and
• 26:56
  Speaker 12: the trash is taken away, there is a log that
• 26:59
  Speaker 12: tracks everything.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Forensic expert Heather Barnhart. So Dr. Jones, many of us
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: have been led to believe that everything lives forever. In
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the cloud. But you stated that certain items deleted are
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: only around for a certain period of time, or are
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: they floating in the cloud somewhere that can be extracted?
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: Another great question. The answer is it depends on the
• 27:28
  Speaker 6: settings on the phone.
• 27:30
  Speaker 11: So on your phone, my phone, we can tell the device, hey,
• 27:34
  Speaker 11: I immediately want to upload all of my pictures, videos,
• 27:37
  Speaker 11: whatever up to the cloud.
• 27:38
  Speaker 10: So it's safe there in case I lose my phone,
• 27:40
  Speaker 10: my phone gets destroyed, my phone fails. But if I
• 27:43
  Speaker 10: don't do that setting, the only place that that data
• 27:46
  Speaker 10: is stored is locally on the device. If I delete
• 27:49
  Speaker 10: that data. Over time, it gets overwritten. That space gets reused.
• 27:55
  Speaker 10: You can think of it like a whiteboard, right? I
• 27:57
  Speaker 10: don't erase the whiteboard until I need the space. But
• 28:00
  Speaker 10: when I need space or if I'm bored, I may
• 28:02
  Speaker 10: just go and erase my whiteboard. That's what happens.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Got it. Dr. Jim Jones joining us from George Mason University. So,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Robert Crispin, not as easy as you made it out
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: to be. Hey, just throw it on gray key. It'll
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: spit it out. Not that easy. But isn't it true?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, they had to bring in a secret security
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: service agent on the Alex Murdoch case. You think they
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: flew him down from D.C. because they wanted to? No,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: they needed him to crack it. But I know this
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: is your bailiwick. I asked at the beginning, and it
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: seemed rhetorical, but it's not. Are they that stupid?
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Really? that they think we're not going to look at, hey,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: give me 20 oxys. They need his phone, all of
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: the enablers, everybody around her. They need her phone. And
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: once they get to the supplier, they need their phones.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Because I've got a very strong feeling that Hayden Panettiere
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: is not the one always making those orders that turn
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: up in bags marked Brian at the door. So are
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: they that stupid?
• 29:18
  Speaker 6: You know, sadly enough, and benefit to us, they are
• 29:21
  Speaker 6: very stupid. They're addicts. They're drug dealers. They're just, they
• 29:25
  Speaker 6: leave all their evidence on their device, and it's great
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: for law enforcement.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: You know, Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: These people showing up to deliver drugs, poisonous drugs, to
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Hayden Panettiu. have been described as one man, 20s and 30s,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: and two women. They typically did not show up together,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: and eyewitnesses state they saw, reportedly, the name Brian on
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: the bag. Which made me think of, you know, when
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: you go to Chipotle, they have all the brown bags
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: sitting there with your name on it. And you just
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: walk in and pick up yours if you order to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: pick up. That's what it made me think of. It's
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: just that common. They just deliver it like it's Tex-Mex.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: That said, Dave Mack, the text we're talking about, do
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: we know where they're coming from, who they're going to?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Tonight we find out they exist and they have been
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: found and that they're damning. What more, if anything, do
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: we know?
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: Nancy, what we know is that there are a slew
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: of messages and they are between Hayden and her, well,
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: I hate to say the drug dealer, but that's what
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: it is. The thing is, they're not being specific. They
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: being investigators are not being specific as to what was
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: exactly said. But we do know that you mentioned the
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: people showing up at her door and the neighbors are saying, look, man,
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: they showed up on a regular basis over years, not weeks, Nancy,
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: not days.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Years.
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: And it's the same three people, two young women in
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: their early 20s, one man in his mid-30s. And in
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: the last case, we're talking the week before she dies,
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: the guy shows up with a bag with Brian written
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: on it. Now, the text messages are now the centerpiece
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: of the investigation. The DEA is trying to break these
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: down one by one because, as you mentioned, are they
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: that stupid to write out, I need 20 oxys? Well,
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: they're not that stupid, but they have terms that are
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: regularly used when you're buying drugs and you're texting about it.
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: Like they'll use for Xanax, they'll call it bars. You know,
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: you have some bars. For Percocet, they might say, do
• 31:53
  Speaker 5: you have some 20s or some blues, some blue guys?
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: And they use terms like that or with cocaine. Let's say,
• 32:00
  Speaker 5: do you have a ball, like an eight ball of cocaine,
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: that type of thing. So they use terms like that
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: that are specific within the drug culture. Not specific to
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: you and me, but Nancy, police investigators do this every day.
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: They know what every code word is, what it means,
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: and they're tying it all together.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Dave, Matt, you're right. Here's a great example in the
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Mac Miller case, an amazing musician, rapper, dead. For instance,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: can I get some bars? Yeah, for sure. How many?
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Can I grab a ball? 10 blue guys and some bars? Yeah,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: for sure. You got a G and some blue guys?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I got you. I mean, but of course the cops
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: know what this means. To Dr. William Maroney.
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Maroney, before I go back to Crispin on street vernacular
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: for drugs and how it can be deciphered, could you
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: explain how we can look at Hayden Panettiere's body and
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: determine whether she was given any life-saving measures, I'm talking
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: about Narcan, before or after her death.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Here's what you have to see. If she was given
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Narcan while she was alive but had trouble breathing, then
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Narcan goes in the nose and it's going to get
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: in the blood. And the blood will tell us how
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: much fentanyl is there, how much Narcan is there, how
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: much oxycodone is there. But if she was dead and
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: somebody gave her Narcan in her nose, it won't be
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: in her blood because her heart's not pumping. That's the simplest,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: in a nutshell, how you're going to know whether she
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: was dead when she got the Narcan spray or not.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Would there still be residue in her nasal passages since
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: she never inhaled it?
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Narcan will be in her nose, but it won't be
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: in her blood.
• 34:21
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: William Maroney, we really look to you for guidance when
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: it comes to this area. I'd like you to hear
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: more about potentially one pill that killed Hayden Panettiere.
• 34:35
  Speaker 7: One fatal pill ended the life of Hayden Panettiere. That's
• 34:40
  Speaker 7: what we are told by multiple law enforcement sources who
• 34:44
  Speaker 7: are involved in this case and who have direct knowledge.
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: We are told. that Hayden had a variety of black
• 34:51
  Speaker 7: market meds, including oxycodone. Authorities believe she took at least
• 34:58
  Speaker 7: one oxycodone pill the morning she died. And that pill,
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: they believe, was laced with fentanyl.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Dr. Maroney, one pill, one pill out of that bag
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: of assorted pills, that menagerie of poison to your body.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: One pill is all it took. I mean, I've covered
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: cases and investigated cases where even breathing in fentanyl residue
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: can kill someone.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: At least we see it. Police that carry Narcan carry
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: their first spray for each other if they're in a
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: situation where there's open fentanyl powder. If there is one
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: pill that killed her then it was an extremely strong
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: pill and it's not oxycodone laced with smaller amounts of
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: fentanyl it's predominantly a fentanyl pill that may look like
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: an oxycodone so if she's naive and she doesn't take
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: this medicine one pill can kill her or if there's
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of fentanyl in that pill but you always
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: have to ask Is the source of the information to
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: law enforcement a valid source? If we're looking at somebody
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: who's with her who said, well, I only gave her
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: one pill, is that person a reliable source of information?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Because there's lots of pills that were said to be around.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Who's a valid source? People sometimes, they tell law enforcement
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: what they want to hear. So let's see if that's true.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: We will know when we see the toxicology, if that
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: was true and if somebody was lying to us.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Could you explain what is a pill press?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I always sometimes create pictures. In the kitchen, sometimes
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: we have ravioli presses or pasta presses where you put
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: dough in and you crank it. or you press it down,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: we have pill presses that take powder, and that powder
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: is usually mixed up in an empty milk jug, and
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: then it's filled in the top, and the pill press,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: like a manufacturing, kind of like a drill press, presses
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: powder into a hard, fake pill. It's a real tablet,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: but it's a fake oxycodone. It's a fake hydrocodone. It's
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: a fake Adderall. That's what they're using to sell drugs
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: because everybody knows you don't know what you're getting with
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: a white powder. So they've rebranded and marketed this to
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: fraudulent pills that everybody says, well, you know, I'm buying this.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Nobody says I'm buying fentanyl. Everybody says I'm buying Norco.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: I'm buying Percocet. Nobody says I'm buying that pill and
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: there's fentanyl in it. There's great misinformation. That pill is
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: made in a basement. It's made in a garage. It's
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: made somewhere outside of the same factories that make these pills.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: These are legitimate. They have contents. They have instructions.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: These....
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: You don't know what those guys are getting.
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: You know, how many dope houses have you busted, Crispin,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: where there were pill presses? Like, here you see it
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: in a lab. It is not like that in a
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: crack house. Not at all. And people, they are mobile.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: They are small enough that you can take them anywhere.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: But that's where dope like this is coming from. A
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: pill press, it looks like you got it at Walgreens.
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, you find them a lot on search warrants.
• 39:13
  Speaker 6: You find kilo presses, pill presses, different ways they store it.
• 39:18
  Speaker 6: But there's a plethora of them out there.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: You know, this has turned into now a cross-country investigation.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I think under the umbrella of the DEA, how is
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that working, Crispin? We've got Carolina and LA.
• 39:39
  Speaker 6: So these guys are working together hand-in-hand, and I'm sure
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: the field office that's in South Carolina is hand-in-hand with L.A.,
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: because this is going, like we said, national. So it's
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: a great cooperation. The locals are going to stay involved
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: in this because depending on what hammer is bigger, whether
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: they take these guys state or federal and maybe the
• 40:03
  Speaker 6: federal hand is giving them a bigger hammer or the
• 40:05
  Speaker 6: state charges carry more. Because remember, these these pills have
• 40:09
  Speaker 6: a minimum mandatory dose. with just a small amount of pills.
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: I mean, some states it's seven grams of this stuff
• 40:16
  Speaker 6: and it's a 15 year mandatory. Now you put that
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: on top of murder. That's a problem for somebody. Or
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: if you're going to start taking people farther down the
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: food chain, there's big penalties for these pills in such
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: a small dose.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: You're right. And you know, I'm sure Randolph Rice, veteran
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: defense attorney recoiled when you said the word murder, but
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: it would be a felony murder. if certain facts are found,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: such as a death occurred during the commission of a felony.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: No intent is required.
• 40:52
  Speaker 10: Well, Ms.
• 40:52
  Speaker 9: Panettiere certainly died. We've got that. And we at least
• 40:55
  Speaker 9: know that there's one pill. But here's the problem, Nancy,
• 40:57
  Speaker 9: and this is what the defense attorneys for anybody that's
• 41:00
  Speaker 9: charged in this case is going to go back to.
• 41:02
  Speaker 9: How do you prove that pill came from my client?
• 41:05
  Speaker 9: How do you prove with a house full of pills
• 41:08
  Speaker 9: that this is the actual pill that came from my client?
• 41:12
  Speaker 9: Can you track it back? Did it match somehow? If
• 41:14
  Speaker 9: there's three people coming to the house, which one of
• 41:17
  Speaker 9: those people was the one that did that? Murder charges,
• 41:20
  Speaker 9: manslaughter charges in this case, I think are very difficult.
• 41:23
  Speaker 9: Better chance here is maybe a distribution charge. And that's
• 41:26
  Speaker 9: why the DA is involved because they're going to go
• 41:28
  Speaker 9: back to LA, try to find the drug dealer and
• 41:31
  Speaker 9: follow them. But tracking that one pill back to Ms.
• 41:34
  Speaker 9: Panettiere's house, her mouth, very, very difficult for any prosecution
• 41:39
  Speaker 9: to prove.
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: William Maroney.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: When you look at this pill, if she died from
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: this pill, then it'll have oxycodone, it'll have fentanyl, but
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: it'll also have lactose. It'll also have magnesium stearate, and
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: they can look for that in the toxicology, but the
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: pill would have come from this bag. Now, what that means...
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: is you do DNA on the pills in the bag.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Whose DNA is going to come up on this? If
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: somebody comes up on this and that pill came from
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: that bag, you can link that person to the pill.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: DNA on what's in the bag. That's the answer.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Now, you know, Dr. William Maroney, you are an incredible
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: toxicologist and pathologist, but You may need to add a
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: trial lawyer onto that. That will give Randolph Rice something
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: to think about. To Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction. You can see her
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: on Hulu. You can see her on Bravo, Peacock. She
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: is a star of a new hit podcast, On the
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Couch with Dr. Bethany. And she's at drbethanymarshall.com.
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: Dr.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: Bethany, criminal charges, really, that we're talking about distribution of drugs, really,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: to me, don't encapsulate what was done to Hayden Panettiere, allegedly.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: The way that she was rendered zombie-like, docile, while people
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: lived off her. There are even reports that this boyfriend
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: was pursuing other women in the months leading up to
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: her death. keeping her docile while they used her money.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: Nancy, this is such an important part of the story.
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: And we have to keep in mind, Hayden Panettiere wanted
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: to be clean and sober. She voluntarily went to rehab.
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: On her book tour, she talked about how proud she
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: was of being clean and sober, which means she was
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: still struggling, but she had come out publicly about it.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: And we know that withdrawal from opiates is very, very,
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: very painful. It makes you feel flu-like and sick and
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: makes you vomit and all of that. So the compulsion
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: or the pull, the craving to go back to the
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: drug is very strong. And because of that, you do
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: have to remove yourself from people, places, and things that
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: made you use. But Brian Hickerson would not let her go.
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: Even if he had other women in his life, she
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: was his meal ticket. And I'll tell you something else, Nancy,
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: from having a practice in Beverly Hills, celebrities use the
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: same suppliers.
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: I have actors who all come in. They talk about
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: the same person who puts on their temporary lashes, or
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: they all use the same manicurist or the same hairdresser, or,
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: or even, you know, I could spread that out to
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: like the same business managers, but also Nancy.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: They use the same supplier.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: Drug suppliers. So there are a lot of celebrities out
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: there who may be struggling with addiction or get drugs
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: for party purposes who are going to be tied to
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: this in some way. I also think that we're going
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: to have doctors in across the country and especially in
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: that particular area who are going to be implicated in this.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: But going back to Brian Hickerson and Hayden, she desperately
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: wanted to be sober. Where does that leave you?
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: That leaves you that.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: When you're trying to get sober and you're extraordinarily influenced
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: by the people around you, that's why people who are
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: getting sober have to be around other sober people. You
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: have somebody who's using right in front of you and
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: waving under your nose. You're going to want to use,
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: especially if you're withdrawing.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Tonight, as we go to air, we learn about damning
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: texts uncovered by the DEA. We learn about drug deliveries
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: to Hayden Panettiere, a mother of one, one little girl,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: a bright and shining light, a TV and movie star,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: in bags that have the name Brian written on them.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: If you allegedly, no one has been charged, no one
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: has been found guilty, No one has been named a
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: suspect or even a POI, person of interest. And everyone,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: even if named a suspect or POI, is presumed by
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: all of us, including me, to be innocent until proven guilty.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Presumed innocent unless and until that presumption is pierced. by
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: evidence enlisted from the state that proves the target guilty
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt. If you know or think you
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: know anything regarding this case, please dial 864-232-7463. We remember
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Terry Ann Bailey, Claiborne County
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's Mississippi, shot and killed in the line of duty.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: leaving behind a grieving wife, Detronel, and four beautiful children.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: American hero, Deputy Sheriff Terry Ann Bailey. Thank you to
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: our guests, but especially to you for being with us tonight.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see you
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.