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83: Lessons on Resilience and Recovery w/ Tiffany Napper · Harder Than Life

• 0:00
  This episode is sponsored by National Technology Management. Visit TrustNTM.com for more information. I'm Kelly Siegel, and this is Harder Than Life, a podcast about self-love, self-awareness, business, and health. We tell outrageous stories and boil everything down to simple, practical advice you can start using today. Let's get living.
• 0:21
  Welcome to the Heart of Life podcast, where we celebrate the stories of extraordinary individuals who redefine success and inspire us all. Today, we're thrilled to have the unstoppable force of positivity and empowerment, Tiffany Knapper, join us. From her roots in the music industry, orchestrating campaigns for icons like Elton John and Alicia Keys to her journey as a serial entrepreneur and now a holistic business coach, Tiffany's
• 0:48
  Innovation and unwavering determination. Join us as we delve into Tiffany's journey from overcoming personal obstacles to empowering others to reach their full potential. Get ready to be inspired by her wisdom, wit and infectious passion for life.
• 1:05
  Tiffany embodies brilliance, beauty, and boundless potential as both an individual and as a woman. She's the epitome of the whole package, radiating intelligence, grace, and strength in every aspect of her being. Thank you for coming on the show today. Wow, that was quite an intro. Thank you for having me, Kelly. It's great to be here.
• 1:28
  Well, I enjoyed being on your podcast. And if people were going to give you lots of time to brag all about it. And sometimes it's very hard to interview people that you know well. Because I have to ask you the questions that I already know the answer to. But when I wrote this before I went on vacation, I was just...
• 1:48
  I just enjoy every interaction with you. You're good from your nose to your toes. And before we hit record, my dear, I'm going to share with what I said to my listeners, because the majority of my listeners right now are men. And there's a cheat code to this, guys. I read all about women in their books. I read Brene Brown's book. I'm reading Worthy by Jamie Kern Lima. I interview and enjoy and listen to...
• 2:13
  to guests such as Tiffany, they're going to give you the cheat code. So without further ado, if you're not watching this, get on YouTube and see how beautiful Tiffany is in person. And no, I'm not hitting on you. I just adore you and I can feel your energy. Thank you for coming on.
• 2:33
  It's a pleasure to be here. So transitioning from a successful career in the music industry to entrepreneurship can be daunting. What were the biggest challenges you faced during this transition and how did you overcome them?
• 2:50
  Hmm, gosh, that's such a good one. And it's funny because I almost feel like I might have amnesia from that time of my life. But I left the music industry in 2011, which feels like a lifetime ago, and set out on the journey to be an entrepreneur. And honestly, it was a lot of negativity, like I just jumped.
• 3:10
  But in hindsight, looking back, I can see that my parents were entrepreneurs. And so I had been around it. I had been exposed to something without even really like knowing what I was being exposed to at the time. So I wasn't super scared at all. I just was ready. I was it's a lot of that that situation where like you get so uncomfortable with where you are that therefore you're willing to do whatever it takes to get to the next situation. That's where I was. So I just made the jump and I've never looked back.
• 3:40
  So it's really the cost benefit is what you're saying. It just, the cost to not do it outweighed the benefits. And so I know this, but I'm going to throw your business out there. So you were married to what we'll call a narcissist and it's a profoundly difficult experience for anyone. How did you find the strength to bounce back from that situation? What advice do you have for others who may be in similar circumstances?
• 4:05
  Yeah. So 2016 was a year that I'll never forget. That was the year that I married and divorced someone who had very severe narcissistic personality disorder. And this was also, believe it or not, back in 2016, people weren't talking about narcissism the way we talk about it today. And so it was a very new concept to me. I did not know what I was even dealing with until I had already left him. Like I still didn't know I was Googling like what,
• 4:32
  If I add up all these things I've been through, like, what am I dealing with? And I couldn't figure it out. So I didn't know what I was dealing with. And even after I figured out what it was, and I was told by him and his ex-wife and his ex-girlfriend and his ex-friends and everyone around that, oh, yes, he's a narcissist. He was French. So that's my little French accent. Even then, it took me a while to really understand what the recovery would look like.
• 4:58
  And I started to share my journey on Instagram and people came out of the woodwork saying, oh my gosh, I also was married to a narcissist or I was in a long relationship with a narcissist or my mother-in-law is a narcissist. And I really found a lot of...
• 5:14
  just peace in being able to kind of share my journey and know that I wasn't alone. And then I did what I think most people should do if you've been in a relationship with a narcissist and I really dove into my self-care practice and my personal growth and my personal development. I remember my mom said to me, please don't let this make your heart be closed off.
• 5:34
  Don't let this person keep you from loving again. And that hit me like a ton of bricks. And I was just like, you know what? You're right. I'm not letting him take my joy. I'm not letting him take my love. I've got a lot of love left to give, and I'm not going to let this take me down. So I dove back into my self-care practice, got back on my yoga mat, really started taking care of myself. And I credit that time as hard as it was. I credit that time as a huge catalyst for where I am today.
• 6:03
  a huge turning point in my whole life. I assure the listeners, I've gotten to know Tiffany very well and she has not let...
• 6:12
  Him, Rob, her of the love. Again, love and kindness exudes out of her. That's why they gave that big introduction, because there are people in this business that are not authentic and genuine, and they couldn't be further from the truth than you. So kudos to your mom for that advice. That just gave me the chills on the inside, and your smile says it all. I do think that...
• 6:37
  what's that movie where the guy date with Dane Cook, where he, he, if he dates you and then right after you get married. So it's like, I think you have to date a narcissist. And then everything is up after that. And, and it's like the first person. And I had Rebecca Zung on I've had, I've had several people that are specialists in narcissism and, and boy, for all you narcissists out there, I I'm sorry. And I know it's a, it's a negative thing, but,
• 7:04
  You know who you are. And after someone dates you, boy, it's nothing but up from there. So congratulations getting out of that.
• 7:13
  Having said that, you're a holistic business coach. You help creative entrepreneurs transform into thriving CEOs. Can you elaborate on the key strategies you employ to facilitate this transformation, particularly in terms of mindset shifts that you just talked about and practical business skills? Deep dive into what can the listener do to get better? Yeah.
• 7:38
  Oh God, there's so much, there's so many things I could say here, but oftentimes when I'm working with entrepreneurs, especially creative entrepreneurs who really thrive at all of the fun stuff of being business owners. So the marketing and the coming up with their offer suite and how they treat their customers and clients and all of that can be easier and fun and a lot of fun for a creative. Whereas maybe the sales strategies or the systems isn't quite as much fun for them.
• 8:05
  And even the leadership skills that are required as you are stepping into a role as an entrepreneur and a CEO, whether you're leading a team or whether you just have contractors or whether you're leading yourself, right? Like there's leadership skills required. So my strategy and the reason why I call myself a holistic business coach is because I don't believe we can all just follow the same formula and be successful.
• 8:28
  Obviously, we've all heard, but if it was that easy, we'd all be millionaires, right? There is a very unique personal component to you that is unique to you and that we have to understand fully for you to truly thrive. And that's going to be different for everyone. Your hangups is going to be different from my hangups, right? Like what might feel easy for me might come...
• 8:50
  might be hard for you or vice versa. So the holistic part is the part where I say, we're going to dive into like, what are your potential like toxic dragons, I call them, our limiting beliefs, the mindset component. What's going on in the background? What's going on in your subconscious?
• 9:07
  And how do we start to strengthen that, repair that, solve that, fix that? And then we match that with the smart strategies and the better systems and the great marketing approaches and all of that that's required for you to run a business. But it's really those two things. It's like the you and then the business have to come together. And that's how we get the holistic, like full picture of how to create that thriving business for you.
• 9:33
  Is that how you came up with the name of your podcast? This or more? Do you want this? Yeah. Or more?
• 9:39
  This or more actually came because I was coaching a couple of clients who I was noticing this trend where we would have this huge thing that we were celebrating, huge revenue milestone we've met or, you know, whatever it might be. And then immediately they would start to go, oh no, what if it all comes crumbling down? Oh no. What if I lose them? Oh no. Right. Which is a limiting belief, right. And that's running in the background.
• 10:09
  Okay, we just hit 500,000. It's this or more. Okay, you just landed that big gig. It's this or more. And it just became this like, you know, mantra on repeat. And they were resonating with it. Anytime I said it, they were like, Oh, my God, okay, I'm gonna write that down. You know, it was a joke that a couple of my clients were like, we're gonna get that tattooed. And so yeah, when it was time to name my podcast, this or more was the obvious answer.
• 10:31
  we're going to deep dive into the strategies more than the day-to-day strategies that you recommend. Like, it's no secret that. The consistency and discipline is my middle name. That's what started harder than life. That's. But having said that I'm a big firm believer in, in God and listening to God and watching, watching what God has to say. You can call it the universe, Jesus, energy source, whatever, but what are you doing?
• 10:59
  What do you have in your practice when it regards regards to a higher power? Hmm. I mean, I'm the symbol I'm similar with you. Like I grew up going, you know, Episcopalian going to church every Sunday was spent a lot of my time as a youth in church with my grandmother. She was like, we, her nickname was Miss Church of the Redeemer, which was the name of our church because she was the backbone of the church.
• 11:23
  Um, so I, I do have a strong faith. I'm a big believer and I use universal terms. Like you just mentioned, I'll say universe and I'll say source and I'll say God, because I, you know, I believe that we all come, I coach women around the globe. I'm not trying to, you know, discriminate on anyone, but I do believe in a higher power. I do believe that, um, you know,
• 11:42
  You know, in these just intrinsic values that are required for us to be able to show up and be good people and treat people well and make people feel seen and valued and heard. And ultimately, for you to be able to shine the brightest, as cliche as it sounds, but like for you to be able to do the thing that you're here to do, I think you have to believe in something bigger than you.
• 12:05
  Great answer. How does alcohol fit in? Alcohol, drugs, escape, masks. How are they fitting into your coaching?
• 12:20
  I mean, luckily, I just never really, I was never a big party girl. My mother has literally never had a drop of alcohol in her life. I don't, you know, it just was like never a thing that fascinated me. But my clients and me, what we struggle with is workaholic, being a workaholic. And so, you know, it's really more about like when we think about escapism, oftentimes what we don't, you know, what we kind of brush under the rug is this concept, well, I work a lot, but that's not a bad thing.
• 12:50
  And, you know, you know, to a degree, you might think it's not a bad thing, but I'm really on a journey these days to empower people to believe that your life is about so much more than hitting a revenue goal. It's just it's not you're not here to send emails. That's not your purpose in life.
• 13:08
  And so, you know, my escapism was always to just keep working. And, and so I really I try really hard. I mean, I still have to try to hard to this day to make time for play make time for fun make time for rest and without guilt, because that that's a, that's a whole nother topic, but you know, really learning how to do it and enjoy it without guilt.
• 13:30
  Okay, I'm going to hijack my own podcast because I love this. I'm grateful that I get to have you. I just came off of a week vacation and I took a vacation. I was in my Florida home with my family and I canceled all my appointments. I didn't attend any of my coaching set, nothing. I did nothing work related and tried to unwind and I didn't. I literally could not shut off my creative mind all week long.
• 13:58
  So I'm the relatively successful CEO. Our brand is blowing up. We just hit number 28 on the self-improvement Apple Podcasts for Harder Than Life. So we're hitting all the markers. And I found myself wanting to work. I'm not a workaholic. I know to go fast, you got to go slow. But I just couldn't shut it off. So if you were working with me,
• 14:25
  What advice would you give me saying, because I just want to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week because I'm having fun.
• 14:33
  Well, that's the difference. I think when you do unplug what I've discovered and what most people discover is what you just discovered. Like we unplug and then all of a sudden the creative downloads come. And I think that's perfectly okay. I wouldn't say, no, you're not allowed to have creative downloads. Absolutely. That's what we want. We want to give ourselves that space so that we can have fresh ideas. And we're not just like pushing paper or responding to emails or in that like response mode all the time.
• 14:59
  So I would say to you, great, go have a vacation and let the downloads come, but put them in a notebook and put them to the side. Don't move into action with anything just yet. Just write them down and know that when you come back to work, they'll be there for you. Your ideas aren't going to run away from you, right?
• 15:15
  Just put it aside and let the downloads come. And what you'll probably find is by day five or six or seven, you have even more clarity around which one of those downloads you want to pick up and run with and which one you're like, oh, it sounded good in the moment, but maybe not, right? So I think it's okay. And when you love what you're doing, that's actually quite normal. But sometimes people can be so in the dredges and the trenches of their business that
• 15:41
  that they don't allow themselves the time away to have the creative downloads. And that's where it can really become. That's a slippery slope. That's how we discover burnout, basically.
• 15:52
  Yeah, so what keeps coming up in Alcoholic God keeps showing this surrender and patience. It just keeps showing up, whether it be a podcast, whether it be a song lyric, whether it be a meme, surrender, because all I know is how to work harder. Go, go, go, go, go, go. And the one thing I can't do, and I haven't been able to do, is slow that down. So again, if I'm seeing be patient,
• 16:21
  and surrender and allow and just be, what would your advice be to that? Because there's got to be more people doing the same thing I'm doing.
• 16:29
  Yeah. I mean, I'm literally, I have a keynote presentation called Hustle to Harmony. And it's all about this. And it's about this concept that when you are finding yourself wanting to work all the time, or maybe even being a bit of a workaholic or experiencing burnout, it's not because you're doing it wrong. It's because you've been lied to. It's because we've been told by society in a roundabout way or a rather obvious way that the only way to be successful at life is to go, go, go, go, go.
• 16:57
  But in reality, that's not success. Like if you're burnt out, exhausted, and, you know, not a good husband, father, partner, friend, whatever, not taking good care of yourself, that's not success by most people's definition. So the message is really just, yeah, you're hearing that because it's important to surrender. It's important to be patient. It's important to remember that, you know...
• 17:20
  Your life is about so much more than just hitting another goalpost or benchmark. And, you know, when we're workaholics or we really love what we do, we have this tendency as well to say, okay, I set a goal. I hit the goal. I move the goal. I set the goal. I hit the goal. I move the goal. And it's just become this continuous thing. And we never stop and celebrate. And we never stop and actually enjoy this one beautiful life we've been given.
• 17:44
  You hit it right on the head. How can somebody get to hear that keynote? What's, where is it and how can they hear it? Cause I want to hear it. Yeah. Oh, I mean, I'm, I'm getting booked more and more to speak on more stages. I have a gig coming up in about a week in Columbia, South Carolina. So yeah, follow me on social media if you want to see where I'm speaking next, but
• 18:08
  It's a powerful presentation. I put my heart and soul into it. It's literally all of my life. And especially from 2016 till now, in a nutshell, like all the lessons I've learned and I'm still learning to this day on how to really like slow down, trust the journey, enjoy the journey and know that performing at a high level doesn't mean self-caring at a low level.
• 18:31
  Ooh, say that again. Yeah. Performing at a high level doesn't mean self-caring at a low level. I love it. She can, you guys can find her at Tiffany Knapper, at Tiffany Knapper, T-I-F-F-A-N-Y-N-A-P-P-E-R.
• 18:49
  So go check that out. She is outstanding. I've heard her speeches and I, I, I, this one, I specifically want to hear. So personal growth is a continuous journey. If you followed me for a minute, you know, I have the craziest. There's the one thing I didn't do, didn't give up during my vacation was, I,
• 19:10
  My meditations, my workouts, my journaling, my gratitude walks. I mean, I do these things daily because if I don't, I don't feel like I can breathe correctly. And my reading, I read most of that Jamie Kern Lima's book.
• 19:25
  which was outstanding. Anybody should read it. I want my daughter to read it. So could you share some pivotal moments or realizations you that have shaped your own personal growth journey, both professionally and personally, besides the narcissistic one we already spoke about? Yeah. Oh man. Yeah, absolutely. Another one that the first next one that comes to my mind is I,
• 19:52
  probably that season of my life from 2017 to 2020, where I was running a very successful PR and branding agency. I ran that agency for 10 years. That's what I did when I left the music industry, started my own agency, and I had been running that for a while. And it was successful and it was relatively easy.
• 20:14
  Relatively is probably putting it mildly. It was easy for me to run that agency. If I'm being quite honest, it was, you know, I had built a model that, that I was very comfortable in. I wasn't trying to have this like huge, you know, thing. It was very comfortable. It was a multi six figure agency, 10 years, like, you know, very comfortable life. And, you know,
• 20:36
  I was unhappy. I was like, this isn't it. This doesn't feel like my calling just because I'm good at it doesn't necessarily mean this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And that was a really uncomfortable season of my life. And I will say it was probably three years of being okay with being uncomfortable. And so that was my big lesson was, what does it look like to be
• 20:58
  And I was fortunate, obviously, in the sense that I already had a successful thing that was very sustainable, didn't require a lot of me. So I was able to kind of dabble in other things while running that agency. That's when I got my yoga teaching certificate to become a yoga teacher for what I didn't know. It just seemed like a good idea at the time. It's when I dabbled in influencer stuff. I mean, this was before, you know, Instagram in 2017 was different from Instagram now. So I started doing influencer work, getting paid by brands to put together campaigns and
• 21:28
  And I was just dabbling in things and some of it felt good and some of it didn't. I started thinking about writing my first book, working on the outline for that. And that wasn't feeling easy. I was just really looking for like what feels what lights me up and feels easy. And so it was in March of 2020, a month we all we know will go down in history books that I got asked to write.
• 21:50
  lead a workshop for a bunch of other female entrepreneurs. And I did, and it went really, really well. And it went well again and again and again. I got asked to keep doing it. And at the end of that story was me finally stepping into the role of business coach and launching my business coaching agency on the side of my PR agency. And so moral of that is just when I look back on it, I realize how
• 22:16
  hard it was for me to be uncomfortable for so many years and not really know, but trust the journey and trust that like when it came to me, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Kelly, like there was like no denying. I was like, oh, this is it. This is my calling. But that didn't happen overnight and I had to be okay with that.
• 22:34
  Did you have to be available or do you think that those personal development processes, the yoga, what did all that have to do with it? Because most people wake up, do the same old routine, and if an opportunity comes and landed on their face and started to wiggle, they wouldn't even notice it.
• 22:54
  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I had to be available. I, as I already said, I was on a huge personal growth journey at the same time. So I was practicing, you know, I was working on my money mindset, something I read and speaking of books that we love, Jen Sincero, you are a badass.
• 23:11
  and you're a badass at making money. Like I was reading those books and I was like, man, I got some work to do. And, and I was, you know, practicing my yoga and yeah, I had to stay really available. I also was blogging at the time and I started a blog and I started a, like every month I would start a new gratitude practice to work on my state of
• 23:32
  gratitude. And so I was doing like one month, I was like, I'm going to pretend like I'm on vacation every day. What would I do if I was on vacation? And, and just like, really, really, like going through different motions. Until something clicked. Did you do that? Yeah. Did you pretend like you're on vacation? Was it cool? Yeah.
• 23:49
  It was great. I even had an event in Nashville, Tennessee and girls came. We like, I found this pool in Nashville and I was like, let's all pretend like we're on vacation and we're at the pool together. It was, it was kind of like a stretching of imagination, but also I noticed when I'm on vacation, I'm much less rigid. Like I'm like, Ooh, let's wake up and look on our phone and see where our cute coffee shop is and then walk there and then have coffee there in the space without my laptop, without my phone, like things that I would do on vacation that I don't do in my daily life.
• 24:18
  You know, Tiffany, you just told me that's why I was so uncomfortable on vacation because I lost all my rigidity. And I was waking up later. I was just kind of being leisurely. And that's the one thing that I found very difficult. I was looking forward to getting back. I get up at 4.15 every morning. First day back today, I was up at 4.15 at the gym by 5. I had meditation. Much better. I feel much better today.
• 24:46
  So, yeah, thanks for pointing that out. You just had a retreat. Tell us, tell the listeners about it, how they could sign up for the next one. And then I believe you have a mastermind that's just open. Use the next little bit because you're wonderful and you're a plethora of information. And when I say that, there's only 52 spots.
• 25:08
  And this is an up and coming podcast. So to get on this is a big thing. So I think the world of you and that's why I brought you on. So use this time to tell people how they can get more access to you besides following you on social media.
• 25:22
  Yeah, yeah. So we just got back from hosting my joyous retreat, which is an annual retreat that we take once a year, obviously to some magical destination. The last two years we went to Sayulita, Mexico, and it is a combo of personal development and business. So it's basically the retreat I always wished existed back in the day where we wake up and we do yoga and we watch the sunrise and we have lattes and it's beautiful. And then we sit by the pool and we deep dive into your business. Like, what do you need?
• 25:51
  I guide you through journal prompts and business coaching sessions. And yeah, we do it all in our bikinis by the pool because I'm all about living and loving this life. And I hate boardrooms. I hate them. That's why I left corporate America. Wait a minute. Is it only women? Because if you're talking about bikinis, I'm coming next year.
• 26:09
  It is only women. I've had a lot of men ask me, like, when are you going to open it up? I'm like, okay, I'm open to the idea. But right now, this one is for women only. And it'll happen again in 2025. If you'll go to my website, you'll see where you can hop on the wait list and be the first to know when the doors open. Well, if you want to do a men's, I'd volunteer to do the men's version of it.
• 26:29
  You want to talk about a calling? I don't know. Maybe something we could slap together and do it. If you get enough men to do it, I'll come teach that part and see. Because I want to tell you this much. This is what I've learned in my research. We're not that different. We really, men and women are not that different. The same feelings, if a man, which I will be honest, 100% vulnerable,
• 26:51
  We have the same insecurities. We have the same fears. We have the same doubts. Yeah, we might be a little physically stronger. Yes, we have different parts. But, man, the same things that are holding you back are holding me back.
• 27:06
  Yeah, it's true. It's true. And I've, I've done, I have coached a few men, um, you know, for sure. I'm not, I'm not, um, you know, I'll, I'll do that from time to time if it feels right. But it is interesting for me even to realize that there are differences for sure. There are differences in certain ways, but there's a lot of similarities as well. And, you know, when I alluded to our toxic dragons a bit ago, which is what I call our limiting beliefs are, you know, these, um,
• 27:33
  unhelpful subconscious beliefs that are kind of running on autopilot in the background. But yeah, I definitely recognize with, with coaching the men I've coached that we all have them. It's just, what's your, what's yours, you know, like what's your toxic dragon look like? So yeah, I'm, I'm it's, it has been interesting to learn and also know where we can lean on each other. Like I,
• 27:55
  I look at you and other men and say, man, I want to be more, you know, sometimes I see y'all having a little bit more ease in being bold and with, with saying what you want or asking for what you want. Not always, but sometimes, you know, um, that seems to be like a more male dominant trait. And I'm like, dang, I want to be more like that. And, and then we've got this more soft nurturing side of us. That's kind of innate in us. Right. And, and there's, there's pros to that as well. So yeah.
• 28:22
  Now I see, and I look at you, and I was just going to say, you just stole my thunder. But I look at women and say, why can't I say how I feel? Why can't I share my feelings? And the answer is, I can. And I don't care if somebody thinks that it's not manually. Manly. Who says what's manly? Who's what's not? That's how you and I connect so well. I want to tell you how I feel. If I'm feeling great, I'm not feeling great. I'm going to share my, what do you call it? Toxic dragons with you. I love that, by the way, feeling.
• 28:52
  Um, you know, the only thing I would say different about men is that for some reason we do tie our self-worth into our job. And that's just sad because that's not who we, there's so much more to us. Women do that too. Especially, especially the modern woman who is like running her own business and really gets wrapped up in the notion that her net worth determines her self-worth. And that's because social media is so loud, right? Yeah.
• 29:19
  I don't think there's anything more sexy than a woman who is a boss. Like, I just, I just think it's, you could be, it's so much more beautiful in the physical and emotional sense, just in all sense of everything to me as, as someone who's done the work than physical beauty alone. You, you could look at a supermodel and oh, she's beautiful. And then,
• 29:44
  brings nothing to the table in any other respect. And I just, it's, it's, when you find someone like you, that's, and please, I just had a friend say, I had a dear friend on, it was a woman. And he's like, it sounded like you were hitting on her. I'm not, I would never cross the line like that. I'm not hitting you. I just game recognizes game.
• 30:02
  And I think the world of you and I like people to understand, to know that if I think that you're awesome, pretty awesome, because I have some high standards. So I want to talk about that in depth about men and women. Being a woman in business comes with its unique challenges, even though we said we're very similar. Talk about how you've navigated the gender biases and stereotypes throughout your entire entrepreneurial career. How long do we have, Kelly?
• 30:29
  I know, I know, but women are vastly listening to my show and I find myself coaching unofficially women a lot because I am so soft and vulnerable and I hold space for them and there's no judgment. And so this is important, Tiff. And there's a gal in there saying,
• 30:58
  you know, hey, I need this. So what advice would you give women who have faced similar obstacles?
• 31:04
  My biggest piece of advice is, and this is what I wish I would have done differently. If I could go back, you know, they ask you, what would you tell like X year old version of yourself? I would go back until 28 year old version of myself to speak up and to use my voice and to not be so embarrassed or ashamed or timid and shy around the idea of sharing your value and doing it.
• 31:29
  not out of an egotistical way, but out of a very matter-of-fact way. So what I mean by that is I definitely had situations in my past, mostly in the corporate world, where I would watch men toot their own horn, so to speak, and get the promotion, and I would kind of get left in the dust, even though I'd done the same thing they had done or maybe more.
• 31:50
  So that'd be my first thing is like really learning how to, in a very matter of fact way, present your value to the table and command the respect that you want. What I found more often than not is when you tell people how you want to be treated, that's how you'll be treated, right? And when you say nothing, you're saying volumes.
• 32:09
  So the first thing I would say is just use your voice and get really comfortable with owning your value. And that requires a lot of inner work more than anything, right? Really understanding the value you bring to the table as a human being and being comfortable declaring that in a way that feels good to you. That would be the first thing I would say. Yeah. Aren't you really saying have high standards and non-negotiable boundaries? Yeah.
• 32:37
  Well, I think you can have high standards and still be walked all over. Like, I think those two things can get, that can get confusing because I always had high standards of. Well, I said both. You had to have the non-negotiable boundaries, meaning the high standard. And then if anybody tries to freaking, you know, bring them down, non-negotiable may say, no, it's this or more. This or no, this or more.
• 33:02
  Yeah, definitely. It is a lot of that. Yeah. And I mean, I've also coached in a program where I'm a coach for a bunch of women, like they call them rising women in different corporate, big corporate entities here in the U.S. And it is the thing I see more often than not, the women who are really timid to actually speak up and, you know.
• 33:23
  kind of pat themselves on the back or, or, and, and in a, in a corporate world in particular, if you're listening, it's like, it's not so much that you need to pat yourself on the back for, again, for the ego. It's because if you don't do it, who will, it's because it's easy for people to not see what you're up to when there's a lot of, you know, things going on. And so if you don't make it known what you've done and command a little bit of respect for that, then it is going to just fall by the wayside, not necessarily because they don't value you as a human, but
• 33:53
  So I see that happen quite a bit. And I think it's just a matter of, you know, getting really confident, like you said, having those boundaries that are non-negotiables and learning how to use your voice.
• 34:04
  And I hate to say this because I specifically wanted that for women, but that's for men too. You're invisible. They're not going to know who you are, whether you're killing it or not. You got to speak up and use your voice in standards and boundaries and non-negotiables in all aspects of life. That's how I got to be where I was. There's days I don't want to do what I got to do, and I just get up and do it. So how can – I believe you just opened a mastermind. How can people get in, check it out?
• 34:34
  Tell us about that.
• 34:35
  Yeah. So I host a mastermind once a year. It's a six month mastermind program. It's for six and seven figure entrepreneurs. So people who are kind of already killing it by most people's standards, but wanting more to use our this or more analogy. I know a lot of times that means they want to write a book or they want to speak on bigger stages or they want to launch their own podcast or something to that nature, or maybe they just want to grow their team and they want to be less in the trenches and, you know, have a more empowered team. So yeah.
• 35:04
  And yeah, that program is called Momentous Mastermind. You can go to my website right now and find the link to apply. It is application only. It's a very curated space because I am very intentional about who is in the room and making sure that you all end up with,
• 35:19
  lifelong allies and people who can truly help you grow your business. Uh, I host a mastermind because I'm a big believer in, uh, your relationships are your rocket ships. And I ran a very successful PR agency for 10 years, literally just based off of referrals and
• 35:36
  one client being happy, telling the next person, that person hiring me. I don't believe we have to get swept up into the tricks and complications of all of the tools that are now at our disposal, meaning Instagram, TikTok, email, YouTube, all of it. It's great and it can get really overwhelming. I think that
• 35:54
  At the end of the day, if you do a good thing, you offer a good service or product, and you have the right people in your network, you will be able to be successful. So the mastermind for me is part of that. It's about creating that community in addition to me coaching you, providing guidance. And then we do go on a little retreat because obviously I like them. I, uh, my idea of success, the best picture of success to me is if you're watching someone, you can't tell if they're working or playing.
• 36:24
  That's Matt Williams is like that. The owner of FroPro, frozen protein snacks. It's you can never tell if he's working or having fun. And I'm like, that's what I want to cultivate. Yeah, that's what we all want to be. Yeah. Relationships are rocket ships. I love that. Is this mastermind open to men and women or still only women? It's women only.
• 36:47
  Sorry. My co-ed program is called Make That Money and it opens in July and that is a sales accelerator program. So if you're listening and you're not yet making the kind of money you want to be making with your business, it can be a side hustle or a full-time gig. And you just want to learn my like tried and true sales strategies.
• 37:09
  Some of those that I just alluded to, like the referral relationships and partnerships and tapping into your previous clients to get the next client, all of those templates and tips and tricks I teach inside my course called Make That Money. And it's actually a program. It's not a course. I run it live. I teach it live. And that'll open again in July.
• 37:29
  What's the website? It's nowhere in the show notes. I didn't see it anywhere. I'll put it in the show notes. Tiffany Knapper dot com. Everything can be found at Tiffany Knapper dot com. Just wanted to make sure. How do you keep such a positive attitude? And you always have a smile on your face. How do you? Well, I mean, I'm lucky in the sense that I realized this the other day. I'm like, man...
• 37:53
  I have been running my own show for such a long time and my schedule is truly my schedule. I mean, yes, I'm on calls with clients and I have a schedule, but in the sense of like, nobody's telling me what time I have to wake up. Nobody's really telling me where I have to be, especially the way I've created my schedule these days. I give myself a lot of flexibility on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. And I just, I think that I'm just...
• 38:19
  I will always be grateful for that because I had 10 years in corporate America where I was told where to be and when to be there. And so the freedom and flexibility that my life affords me now, I'm just, I don't know how I could be mad about it. I'm so happy. It radiates through you. So thank you for being you. I'm going to switch it up and just ask some fun questions because I know you, but I want everybody else to know you and think of how amazing you are and why I think you're so amazing.
• 38:47
  So cool. You've worked with some global superstars and some emerging artists. So what's a bizarre moment or a memorable request that you received from some of these people? Oh, my God. There's so many. There's so many. Some of which I'm even though I never really signed like a nondisclosure in my my core. I'm like, I can't share that story. I have to take that story to the grave. But a funny story that I'll share is.
• 39:14
  So I worked in the music industry, right? I worked for Yamaha, the big music manufacturer, and was in their artist relations division and started their record label. And part of what I did in that role was I served as a creative director for this big publication we put out twice a year, where we would feature all of the artists who play Yamaha. So we're talking about like Elton John and Alicia Keys and Paul McCartney and John Legend. And in addition to all the other amazing artists who maybe aren't our household names, but
• 39:44
  the big household names like an Omar Edwards, who's Jay-Z's music director, things like this. So it was a beautiful gig. I got to meet amazing people because I traveled all around the world to make these photo shoots and video shoots happen. But a funny core memory for me was being in New York City. I had reserved one of my favorite photo studios in New York because we were shooting the cover that day and the cover was John Legend.
• 40:05
  And he was engaged at the time to Chrissy Teigen, but not yet married. And I was like a super fan and I was hoping she would come. She did not. Spoiler alert. But he came and I'm sitting there with him and there's like a little dressing kind of room area, if you will. It's not really a room. It's not. There aren't like full walls, but it's like if you've ever been in a photo studio, you know, sometimes they'll have like the clothing rack where you hang up the clothes and
• 40:28
  So it was like a little situation tucked to the side. And I'm in there with him because he's unpacking some of the clothes that he brought to wear for the shoot. And we're discussing what the first look should be. So I'm helping him. We're kind of like hanging things up and going through some of the things. And I had picked, you know, I think these pants and this shirt. And he just starts undressing in front of me all the way down to his boxer briefs. And I was like...
• 40:52
  Oh, okay, I'm going to go over there. And I turned around and, you know, scooted out. But I mean, it was totally innocent. However, it caught me off guard. And I was like, well, I just saw John Legend in his underwear. So...
• 41:04
  That is something I would totally do. Not even thinking about it, just the same way he did. Not trying to do anything. Like, oops, I'm just so comfortable with who I am. I wouldn't even think about it. That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that story. It's funny. I think that's the first time I've seen you blush even a little bit.
• 41:23
  So you had mentioned about coffee. So behind every successful person, I believe, is a good cup of coffee. So what's your go-to coffee order when you need an extra boost of creativity or energy?
• 41:38
  I just, I'm a straightforward latte girl, just a regular old latte. If I'm feeling really like I want to live on the edge, Kelly, and I want to like defy what I know to be true, I'll order an iced oat milk latte. I'm aware that the oat milk spikes my blood sugar. But that's if I'm really living on the edge.
• 41:58
  I swear to you, I think I run on caffeine and bad intentions. Literally. Usually I have, usually right in front of this, the studio is all kinds of, of sugar-free Red Bull or, or, and as some kind of energy drink. And I just, that coffee and pre-workout, it's like pumping into my veins. Cause I, I go for 15, 16 hours every single day and I bring every freaking ounce of energy I have. So.
• 42:26
  Um, besides outside of the professional endeavors of this or more and all your work, how do you like to spend your free time? I'm kind of boring to be quite honest. I mean, I'm a yogi, so I go to hot yoga every weekend. You were talking earlier about how, like, if you don't do certain things, you don't feel like yourself. That's me. If I am not in like a hot, sweaty power yoga class, at least once a week.
• 42:53
  I start to become not a good version of myself. So I'm a big yogi. You know, I just go on like walks. I watch TV. I relax. There's nothing. There's no, you know, super exciting things going on behind the scenes.
• 43:09
  I'm lucky that like my life brings me a lot of joy. My work brings me a lot of joy. I feel really fulfilled at the end of every day. And sometimes if I'm being really honest, when I have a heavy coaching day and I'm coaching several clients in one day, at the end of the day, my brain is zapped. I've got nothing left to give and I'm totally at a, you know, comfortable just. I'm one of those weirdos also who is really comfortable in silence. So sometimes I'm just like in a silent house, just being at peace. And sometimes I'm just watching something terrible on Netflix.
• 43:39
  I swear you're my sister from another mister. I just described my life. I say, I lived a crazy life before harder than life. I just, I was a rock star. I partied like it was my last day every day, had a blast. And now I say the same thing. I'm boring. I'm so boring, but boring wins. So I got a new slash. Silence, boring, consistency, and discipline is how you win massively.
• 44:08
  So keep being born, girl. I see you. So what's your favorite book or podcast that has a significant impact on your life or career?
• 44:18
  Oh gosh, I'm a big, I'm an avid reader. I'm always reading business development books or personal development books, but one that I can never, ever, ever leave out because I still pick it up at least once a week is Simple Abundance. If you're not familiar, highly recommend. Even for the male listeners, I think there's something really beautiful in there for you, but it is a little bit more geared towards women. And it's about reconnecting with your authentic self and,
• 44:45
  And what does it really look like to excavate and go on a curious deep dive to find her or him? So that's a good one for me. Love it. And then I mentioned it already, but Jen Sinchiro's books, You're a Badass, really kind of like cracked open something for me that I needed to be cracked open and
• 45:05
  I read them, of course. I mean, I think she's amazing. I read hers actually during the pandemic. I didn't know that you launched your stuff right during the pandemic. So did I. Harder Than Life was born during the pandemic. I was just sitting here having downloads. I was reading. I was meditating. And I was podcasting heavily. Hers is the You Are a Badass. I refer that to almost every woman. I love that. It's so good. I got to get her on the podcast.
• 45:32
  Yeah. And then if you're listening and you are, you know, as we mentioned, like sales is something that you do, which if you're a business owner, obviously you're in sales. The Go-Giver, if you haven't read The Go-Giver, put it on your list. It's a super short, easy read. It is a beautiful book.
• 45:48
  concept. And it really dives deeper into this concept of like, you've got to give and receive equally at all times and how to be a really great go giver. And it even talks about what you just mentioned, Kelly, like the person that's having the most fun is probably the person that's the most successful. You see a little bit of that in that book.
• 46:06
  I read it. It's all, it's really talks about creating value. You have to create value. That's what's, that's what's given sales a bad name. People turn it into a freaking negotiation and a true sales isn't a negotiation. It's a, let me solve a problem. Let's solve a problem together. And those, um,
• 46:29
  I don't want to put him on blast, but I'm just going to put him on blast. The Macklin twins out in Arizona with their sales academy. Do you know, or Andy Elliott, this sales academy. Yeah, they've been chasing me down and I'm going to go out there and just see what they do this. He has this famous viral video where he says, I only hire salesmen that have a six pack of abs.
• 46:52
  And then he goes, you know, and it's like, can you get, I got to go see what's going on. I, I said, they, they, they invited me out and they said, come look. And then they tried to charge me. And I went, what? I forgotten more about sales than you guys will ever know. And I tease them and I like to have fun. And that's just me being confident in them. A little bit cocky, a little bit, you know, if you're going to, if you're going to challenge me, I've been selling my whole life. And, and, you know, being vulnerable is the best sales tactic I've ever seen.
• 47:22
  it. Just here's what, here's what I am concerned about. And if that doesn't get you the sale, that's not your person. It wasn't in alignment with you. Oh, that's good.
• 47:34
  Yeah, I think what people get so worked up about is they're so afraid of the rejection, but in reality, it should be more like you're trying to figure out if this is a good fit and you can serve them and they're trying to figure out if this feels like what they need right now. And if it's not, it doesn't have to be a rejection. It can just be a no, not right now. Or maybe, God forbid, they might actually know more than you about what they need and what in their life, right? Yeah.
• 47:59
  Yeah, but a lot of people are just so terrified of the rejection and therefore they're afraid to be vulnerable and authentic and honest in those conversations. And that's definitely a downfall. I like that. Most of everything you've just said, I believe that everything has to be a win, win, win, a win for you, a win for me and a win for the company.
• 48:20
  It just has to be. If it's anything other, it won't last. Because I'm like, when you do business with me or when we connect, we're connected for life. Unless you lie, cheat, or steal. As long as you have integrity.
• 48:39
  I'm probably, and I'm still friends with people that people don't like because I can see through their mask or their crutch or whatever they're trying to put out there, which is going to be a great next question. If you could have dinner with any three people, living or dead, who would they be and why? Kelly, I hate these kind of questions. I'm always terrible at them. I know, but just keep dreaming. Who would be a good yoga? How about the Dalai Lama or who's a good yoga?
• 49:09
  I mean, I would probably put some people on there that I think like, hmm, this is so hard. Oh, my Lord, you did this to me. I mean, I would love to meet Jen Sincero. You said you're going to invite her on her podcast. I mean, I think she's a badass. I'd love to meet her. I mean, you have my word. I'm going to reach out to her right after this. I'll get her and I'll introduce you guys.
• 49:37
  Okay. I love it. I'm a huge fan of Audrey Hepburn. Grew up loving Audrey Hepburn and especially what she stood for in her, you know, like watching what she did with her career and her life and really being in service for the end of her life is really a beautiful thing. So I'd put Audrey Hepburn in the list. I'll give you number three. How about Brene Brown? Love it. Can't say no to Brene Brown. Would never.
• 49:59
  I just, that's my ultimate go. Like she will be my unicorn for a podcast guest. And I would have to spend like five hours trying to come with her. Researching. I don't agree with everything she says, but I love the way she says it. She's one of the people that could say F off Kelly. And I'd be like, thank you. It's true. It's true. Everything about her, even how she,
• 50:25
  over the top she is with the lgbtq and and even this i just i just i love her passion it's it's i i want to be that passionate about something and i guess i am about the heart of life brand i just love it it's fun this is just i would say you're passionate about several things yeah so maybe it's coming across better than i think it than i think it was all right what's one skill or hobby you've always wanted to learn but haven't had the chance yet uh okay well um
• 50:55
  I always wanted to really get good at the piano. I'm not. I've taken a couple of lessons here or there. I had a keyboard for a little while that I used to, you know, pound out some Beatles tunes on. But that's an obvious. Lately, I've been thinking more and more about how I think it'd be fun to learn how to make pottery just for fun. Not because I want to become a potter. But anything that I feel like can kind of like get my hands involved and creative and gets me outside of my thinking brain, I think is good for me.
• 51:23
  What's a favorite quote or mantra that you live by? Oh, there's so many. My mom, I grew up with my mom telling me to keep a song in my heart. So that one always comes to my mind. I love your mom. She's still, she's great. She's going to love it when I send her this episode.
• 51:43
  You know, I'm very partial to moms because I didn't have a good mother by any mistake. That's what I wrote about in my book, Heart in Life. And she just cheated the best she could. But man, your mom sounds amazing. So tell her I said hi and she did well with you because her love has shown in your love, which is shown in the light to everybody else. So thank you. Thank you, mom.
• 52:07
  Thanks, mom. Yeah, she'll be here in a couple days. She's going with me to my next speaking engagement, which is really cute. What's the next one that you're doing? I mean, this is going to air after that. Yeah, I'm speaking at an event called Re-Up Convention in Columbia, South Carolina. Nice, nice. So your retreat is in Solulita, which is beautiful. Do you have any other memorable travel experience or destination that's left an impression on you?
• 52:34
  I mean, Paris is my favorite place on earth. I think I've been there 10 or 11 times. I minored in French long before I married the French man. I was a big, avid Francophile. So Paris is my favorite place on earth. I'll be getting my ass back there this year, come hell or high water, because it's been since 2019, which is probably the longest I've gone without having a trip to Paris on the roster.
• 52:57
  And then I've spent a lot of time in Japan because of my work with Yamaha. So I love Kyoto. That's how I fell in love with matcha. Long before matcha was like on menus in America, I was drinking matcha and studying the culture behind it. And so I love Kyoto. I mean, obviously meditation and gratitude and all of that is such a huge part of their culture. So yeah, those would be my other two favorite places. All right, I'm going to put you on the spot. I still got a couple more questions. I'm going to put you on the spot. Are you single? Yes. Yes.
• 53:26
  Are you dating? I'm open to dating. I'm not like, you know, yeah. All right, boys. There's a lot of you that look at a harder life. Go look at Tiffany. She's a catch. I'll tell you she's...
• 53:38
  She's in a great city, fun music city. I'm not going to say you can figure it out on your own. She's wonderful people and beautiful, takes care of herself. Go check her out. Let's get a couple more questions about what's a guilty pleasure when it comes to food or snacks? Dark chocolate always and forever. Always. If I could have one square of dark chocolate every night, I swear I'd be happy. But yeah, dark chocolate of some degree.
• 54:08
  If you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be? To stop trying to get ahead of yourself and really like enjoy, slow down and enjoy the moment. I mean, there's a reason why I still talk about that to this day, right? It's because it's how I always was. Yeah.
• 54:31
  always was running 10 steps ahead. You know, even in high school, I was ready for college. Well, beyond that. And in high school, I was ready for my career. Like I wrote to the magazine editors of every fashion magazine when I was like 12 years old, asking them, how do I become them when I grow up?
• 54:50
  And that's how I discovered that they were like, oh, get a journalism degree and then do this, this and this. And so I was always ahead of myself, was always wanting to be successful. That was just a deep ingrained desire of mine. And as a result, I didn't always slow down and enjoy the process of getting there. So slow down and enjoy the journey. What did I start this podcast with? I got to work on surrendering. And you just said the same thing. What are you going to be? What are you going to be doing in 2030?
• 55:20
  I hope by 2030. Yeah. In 2030, I'm going to be speaking on really large stages about this concept of going from hustle to harmony and what I call my soft CEO era and how you can actually do more by, you know, be more and do less. Yeah. So that'll be happening in 2030. I'll still have my high level one-on-one clients that I coach because I love and adore getting into the trenches with someone and helping them transform their business.
• 55:48
  uh, and get their life back. And I think I'll probably still be running a mastermind because I do truly believe in the catalyst that that, that incubator provides, but I really hope I have more time to speak on more stages because my book will be out and I'll be promoting that book and yeah, living my best life, going to Paris on a regular basis.
• 56:09
  I love that for you. When you get your book done, please promise me that you'll come back on and I'll interview you on the book. I love reading books and then hammering them. I've done it several times with people and I catch parts of the book that they're like, oh, my God, I can't believe you took that from that. And I will do the same for you again.
• 56:31
  Just let me know when it is. And it's one of the, it's like being, officiating a wedding. I don't think there's a better honor. Even though I know that it's a book tour, they're doing everything. I just, it's just cool. It's the least I could do to give back to somebody that's doing so well. I love this hustle to harmony now that I think about it. Because it's, I say this more often than not. Happiness or money doesn't make you happy, but happy will make you money.
• 56:58
  And so I just, I want to ask this question and I know the answer, but I want to say is define, no, I'm going to do it this way. Define happiness for the listeners. Okay. Everyone's definition of happiness is going to vary. So I'm going to try to speak in general terms. Happiness. Happiness.
• 57:24
  is when you are so at peace, so at ease that you can be the ultimate giver and also the ultimate receiver in your life. I think happiness is when you are not...
• 57:45
  like you're not in a reaction mode. You're really at the, behind the drivers, like in the driver's seat behind the wheel, guiding your vehicle to its destination. And because you're so at ease, you're just really being able to spread love and light everywhere you go. I think that's happiness. You know, again, you know, my sister from another mystery, happiness to me is inner peace.
• 58:12
  Inner peace. There you go. That's a much easier way of saying what I just said. I live a chaotic lifestyle that used to. And it's just the inner peace means I'm going to be happy and I'm going to do well. Excellent answer. Thank you for being you. Thank you for coming on. What's something about you that people might be surprised to know? This is always a fun one. So I had pet pigs when I was a child. I was obsessed with pigs, like pink pigs.
• 58:42
  Um, yeah, so I had some pet pigs as a child. In fact, one was a gift that my parents surprised me with for Christmas. And no, we did not live in a farm at the time. So that was an adventure. But yeah, I had pet pigs as a child. What was one of their names?
• 58:58
  Okay, so here's the fun thing about pigs. Don't get me started. Well, first of all, I was not that creative as a child. So I had a Wilbur and I had a Willie and I had a Sam. What else did I have? Anyway, but pigs are smart. They're like, look it up. I forget what it is. I used to say they were like number three on the scale of smart animals, but it's probably not number three, but they're smart. They'll learn tricks. They'll like, my pig could go in circles and we had a little toy phone and you would say
• 59:28
  take its little cute little nose and get the phone off of the receiver. And yeah, they're actually really clean. You know, if they're not living in a mud pen, um, yeah, pigs are great. They're loyal. Where did you grow up? Louisiana.
• 59:47
  But my family, my mother's mother grew up on a farm in Ohio and my family are still farmers in Ohio on my maternal side of the family. They don't have pigs anymore. Now they just grow corn and wheat and soy, but they used to have pigs and cattle as well. So I grew up in the summers. I would go and I fell in love with the runts and I would nurse them and it's a whole thing.
• 1:00:13
  So small town Southern girl, gentlemen, listen,
• 1:00:17
  Boys who have done the work, who have worked on themselves, done some personal development. Don't step to her if you haven't, because I literally want, she'll eat you alive. I'll eat you alive. Go check out TiffanyNapper.com. And I just, I can't, my day is better now having spent an hour with you. Thank you for coming on. I love you very much. If there's anything I could ever do, you have my cell phone number, reach out anytime.
• 1:00:47
  Yeah. Thank you, Kelly. Thank you. Please rate and share this podcast. I'm active on all social platforms and love to hear from my Segal supporters. Each and every episode is sponsored by my company, National Technology Management, the easiest and best IT company to do business with, delivering peace of mind with technology every day, even simplifying cybersecurity. Visit TrustNTM.com for more info. Until next week, be harder than life.