Latest / Deep Trope Fantasy & Romance Podcast / Chat with Cozy Romantasy Author Tee Harlowe | Interconnected Standalones and the OG ACOTAR Fangirl
Transcript
- Rachel: Welcome to Deep Trope, where we go deep into fantasy and romance books, one trope at a time. We're your two book besties gushing over plot, characters, Easter eggs theories, and of course, our favorite spicy moments. I'm Rachel, romantasy theorist. Kate: And I'm Kate, lover of all things dark and spicy. Rachel: And today we are joined by cozy romantasy author Tee Harlowe. Tee is the author of several romantasy series, including Stolen Crowns, Moonflower Witches, Witches of Whispering Willows, and The Brothers of Fairwitch Isle. Today's episode will be spoiler free, so don't worry if you haven't read Tee's books yet, although we're sure you'll want to once you finish today's episode. So welcome, Tee. Thank you so Tee: Hi, ⁓ my gosh. Thank you guys for having me. Rachel: we're so happy to have you. Thank you so much for joining us. ⁓ know it's been an exciting month for you with the release of This Witch Is Not Wicked. So care to tell us a little bit about this book and ⁓ the Brothers of Fairwitch Isle series? Tee: Mm. Yes, so this Witch is Not Wicked is the second book the Brothers of Fairwitch Isle series, but they're all interconnected standalone, so they can technically be read on their own because they're each about a different couple. ⁓ so this witch is not wicked focuses on one of the brothers, Nevin, ⁓ and witch. So witch with a bad reputation. She is not acting very nice in her community, and so she is at risk of getting exiled. And the only way she can think of to improve her reputation and not get kicked out is fake dating the town golden boy who everyone loves so she can hopefully improve her reputation. And he meanwhile wants to get like his meddling mother off his back about marriage, because he does not want to get married. So they come up with this fake dating scheme that will benefit both of them. And then spoiler Kate: Mm-hmm. I love fake dating. Tee: They fall for each I know you said spoiler free, but they do fall for each other in the process. Kate: Okay. I I feel like like does that count as a spoiler? You know, like it with a fake dating trope, we love that. And if it went any other way. Tee: I mean no, you're right. Right. It would not be meeting the expectations of readers. I would probably get a lot of angry emails and messages if something yeah, so spoiler, they do fall for each other, but I won't tell you all the details of how. So that's the mystery. Kate: You know. Right. Ha ha ha Rachel: ⁓ we love it. And so this this book follows Nevin, right? With his slutty little glasses. Tee: Mm-hmm. I know, yes. My PA came up with that one. They're the my PAs, Kristen and Sarah, are like the marketing geniuses behind all this stuff. They are so funny. And I like never would have thought I mean he does have slutty little glasses, but I never would have thought of that or used it in advertising. And one of my PAs said it and I was like, ⁓ my gosh, we have to use that. Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: Yes, yes. We love some slutty little glasses. Slutty little glasses, and then for the bad boys, the slutty little ⁓ earrings or cunty little earrings. Tee: Mm-hmm. Yes. ⁓ yeah. Kate: Ha ha ha Tee: Yes, I haven't had those yet, but that's another good one. That's probably like a little bit more contemporary, but I th I you can make it work in fantasy too. Yeah. Kate: Yeah, no that's Rachel: ⁓ for sure, for sure. So Kate: Yeah. Rachel: And I love this idea of interconnected standalones. We talk a lot about series versus standalones here. I love like long series. Kate prefers standalones. ⁓ but I do think I might have a little bit of a bone to pick with you with this series because ⁓ I was envisioning like standalones means they're not ⁓ same world, but the stories are separate. But it seems like Kate: I love standalones. Tee: Yeah. Mm. Rachel: Based on reading This Damsel is not in distress, that there's a little bit of a plot line that kind of connects through potentially to this next book. Okay. It ⁓ Tee: Yeah. Yes. Yep. I never mean to do it. Like I really try to write like full stop like like contemporary romance. Cause I read a lot of contemporary romance. Like, you know, like right now I'm reading Amy Daws ⁓ Mountain Men series and like each book is about a different brother. And it's yeah, like it is a standalone, you know, and you meet the other brothers and you know they're all gonna have books because that's the whole point, you know, but like Kate: Yeah. Rachel: Okay. Mm-hmm. Tee: And so that's what I try to do, but make it fantasy romance. But like I just can never seem to help myself. And there seems to be like a plot line that runs through the whole series that is a little bit more of a cliffhanger, I guess. But I'm not it you know, you could still read this damsel is not in distress and like get the whole story of Wolfe and Niamh and, you know, be satisfied by their ending. But there there's like just a little bit that keeps you like Kate: Mm-hmm. Tee: wanting to keep reading 'cause there's a tiny bit of a mystery, I guess. Yeah, I didn't mean to do that. I just it just it just happened. ⁓ Kate: Yeah. Rachel: So is that something that is going to be explored throughout the entire series, do you think? Okay. All right. Tee: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So they'll be I mean, by the last book, like everything will be resolved and everyone will have all their answers. And so each book is still like a different couple and that couple's story is resolved. But I guess that's why I call it like interconnected standalones because there's that thread that connects all of them. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Right. ⁓ that makes sense. Yes. And it's I I s totally see what you mean by that. Like it's like the love story is resolved, but then there's this sort of other mystery as you said. Tee: Yeah. Yeah. Kate: Yeah. I love that. It's kinda like the best of both. You know? Rachel: Yes. Tee: Yeah, it is. It's kind of like a little it kind of melds the two so that you can have some satisfaction, but then it's still like, okay, but I gotta read the next one so I see what happens with this. Kate: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. That ⁓ honestly that sounds kind of ideal for me because like like Rachel was saying, like, you know, sometimes I struggle with like s really long series, but so like a standalone is great, but to to kind of have that that overarching thread that ⁓ can still kind of keep you hooked is that's that's cool. Tee: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, because I have trouble with I mean, series are sometimes hard for me too, to read and to write. Like I I don't normally get super hooked into long series with like a few exceptions. And so I kind of just write the kind of books like that I would want to read. Like that's why I read so much contemporary romance because I like being able to be done with a story. Like you read it and then you're done and you're satisfied and you can move on to the next thing and not, you know. be left and I I mean, obviously there's so many different types of stories for so many different types of readers. So it's great for the readers who love the long series and the cliffhangers, but like that's not necessarily me, so Kate: Mm-hmm. Agreed. So we did want to talk a little bit about where you find some of your inspiration for all of these books. So we know that you spent some time traveling the world before you became an author. So is is that accurate? And can you tell us a little bit about your background? Tee: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I grew up in Kansas City, moved to Los Angeles when I was 18 to go to school. I went to college. I got my BA in screenwriting and film. And it was kind of my intention to stay in LA and become a screenwriter, and that was my dream. ⁓ but it didn't work out. I mean, it was really hard. I was like, you know, living in like a two bedroom apartment with five other people and like, you know, wait. Kate: ⁓ gosh. Tee: waitressing at night and like interning during the day at studios and you know trying to break into Hollywood and like we all were everyone was ⁓ you know everywhere I worked ⁓ and it just got like exhausting I was like I just want to like be able to afford health insurance and like you know I was like I'm really getting sick of this so I went to school to I went to ⁓ UCLA and got my master's in education and I was like if I can't Rachel: Right. Kate: Ha ha ha. Tee: be a writer, then like I'll teach writing. And so I, you know, was teaching English and history. But what ended up happening was my degree, I realized I could travel all over the world and teach at different like international schools. ⁓ and so that's what I did for a few years. So I lived in Oaxaca, Mexico and I lived in ⁓ Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. And then I also had lived in Germany ⁓ when I was in college studying abroad. So Rachel: Mm. Mm. Tee: I just got a taste of, you know, lots of different cultures and ⁓ languages and foods and ways of living. And it definitely has inspired how I write because I usually like before I have a a series or whatever, like in the beginning when I'm plotting it out, I will imagine like a place that I've been and the scenery and some of the world building will kind of be inspired by that. So like for Fairwitch Isle, Ireland is a very big like inspiration for Fairwitch Isle, This Damsel Is Not In Distress specifically and like where it's located. And so it's not full on it's not based on like Irish mythology, but I do I am like by ⁓ Irish mythology and Ireland and some of their customs and cultures when I come up with it. So Rachel: Mm. ⁓ I love that. What a I mean, what an interesting life to live. And such a such a great way to pivot. Cause I definitely hear you like, I think a lot of us live that grind in our early years with all the roommates and just trying to make our dreams happen and then ⁓ shifting, discovering a new dream, traveling the world. And I mean, what a wonderful way to bring your ⁓ Tee: Ha ha Kate: Seriously. Tee: Yeah. Mm. Rachel: passion for writing into, you know, shifting from screenwriting into books and these lovely stories. So ⁓ I love that. And also being able to revisit all the places that you've been and create like these fantasy worlds based on them. Tee: Yes, it is I it is really fun and it definitely has like shaped the way I like to write and you know just including as many different like backgrounds and cultures and characters as I can in my stories. So even if they're not like real, they're rooted in, you know, real worlds. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: Right, right. Rachel: So one thing that I loved about ⁓ both of the books of yours that I've read. So I've read This Damsel is not in distress and be careful what you witch for. And obviously they're two very different books and two totally different series, but they both featured FMCs in what I would call the prime of their life. So one is 35 and the other is 40. ⁓ and then you even have this side character that's a 65-year-old demon hunter who discovered her powers at 40. Tee: Mm. Rachel: So despite being more established in life, these characters are all at a bit of a crossroads and they really have a significant amount of self-discovery left. ⁓ so first of all, thank you for this because it feels great to like be represented in these books. Cause so often we're reading books with like a 19-year-old FMC. And obviously they have a lot of growth ahead of them, right? ⁓ Kate: Ha ha ha. Tee: Mm-hmm. Kate: Mm. Rachel: But what inspired you to focus your stories on these more established main characters? Tee: Well, so be careful what you witch for is paranormal women's fiction, which is like a genre that specifically focuses women and older who discover they're the chosen one. They get to be the chosen one. So it's not like the younger, you know. ⁓ so that was like a very sp like genre specific thing for ⁓ be careful what you witch for in that series. ⁓ But it kind of when I decided to pivot to fantasy romance, it did kind of Rachel: Mm. Tee: ⁓ inspire that because I was you know, I'm in I mean I I published Stolen Crowns, which was my first fantasy romance series when I was like thirty-five, I think, or thirty-six. And ⁓ so I just I wanted to write characters that I could relate to and I can't really relate to like nineteen year olds or eighteen year olds anymore. And ⁓ Rachel: Mm. Mm-hmm. Kate: Fair, fair. Tee: Yeah. And I mean I I, you know, when I was in my early twenties, I was reading I read ACOTAR you know, right when it was first released. And ⁓ so I kind of like grew with those characters and felt like if I was reading then at them at that age, then a lot of those other people were them at that age and also are now my age. Like all those people who read ACOTAR forever ago are now like my age. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tee: And they're probably looking for characters that they can see themselves in that, you know, are like older and a little bit more mature and don't have like the perfect body and don't, you know, are not like this like idealized version. And there's nothing not that there's anything wrong with that, obviously. Like I absolutely loved ACOTAR, like it shaped a lot of, you know, what I love to read and write, like so many people. ⁓ so again, like this isn't to say there is anything wrong with Rachel: Yeah. Tee: writing 19 year olds or 20 year olds or anything like that, I just feel like that's not the phase of life that I'm in. Like I'm more interested in exploring people who are older, ⁓ who are discovering different parts of themselves now, kind of like I was, you know, like when I was 30, turn in my thirties and teaching and back in the States I was no longer traveling and realizing I just really was miserable and hated it. ⁓ and kind of at that crossroads of like Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: How am I how am I start feeling like I'm starting over when I'm in my 30s? Like I should I should have things figured out, but I didn't, you know, ⁓ and pivoting to writing. So I don't know. I just like exploring that. I like explod exploring older, I guess, like more mature people and relationships where they are having a different kind of maybe crisis than what like a 19 year old or 20 year old or even early twenties might have. Rachel: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. And that's so interesting that you also that you read ACOTAR as it came out because I don't feel like I I have not talked to a lot of people that have that experience with it. Most people I feel like like discover this genre and like just binge ⁓ everything, know, all the popular ones all at once. ⁓ Tee: Yeah. I was reading like I mean I was reading fantasy romance before it was ever called fantasy romance. Like my mom my mom bought me this series by sh a author called Sharon Shinn that is called ⁓ the Archangel series and ⁓ it was in the YA section in Barnes and Noble because I don't think Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: Mm. Tee: They knew where else to put it, but like the characters are in like their late 20s and early 30s, and it's interconnected standalones as well. And it's kind of like sci-fi fantasy romance. But I was reading this when I was like 13 and I was like, ⁓ my God, I love this. And like I now, and I I just reread Archangel literally like a few weeks ago, and I was like, this is so adult. This is not YA at all. It's such Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Yeah. Ha ha ha. Tee: an adult book, but ⁓ and like Juliet Marillier was another author I read. and Anne Bishop, like were all authors who were writing fantasy romance before it was ever called fantasy romance. And ⁓ I think I was when when I was like in my twenties, I kept looking for those types of books and I would go on Amazon and just be like searching for those books and like similar recommendations. You know, Amazon would have like the ⁓ and ACOTAR came up. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: As a similar recommendation to some of those books, and that's how I found those first books. So yeah, like I was reading it before all the books were even released or you know, out, and I was totally hooked. Like I was in Mexico actually. That was when I was living in Mexico when I discovered it, and I was just like laying on my bed with my Kindle, just you know, binging it. Rachel: Yeah. ⁓ that's so cool. Kate: Yeah. That is funny because it like Rachel said, I feel like now it's kind of like the opposite way that you discover it of people are finding the book because it's blown up and become so popular, and then that's their gateway into fantasy romance, versus you were like, I'm I'm looking for fantasy romance. Like give Exactly. Tee: Yes. Yes. But I didn't know what to call it because it wasn't called fantasy romance. It was just I don't even know what it was called. They called it like YA fantasy. And it was like, this is not YA. You are wrong. And I think ACOTAR was called YA when it was first released too, ⁓ which was a very like inaccurate, you know. Rachel: Ha. Kate: Yeah, that does not fit. But yeah Yeah, which Mm-hmm. And now you walk into Barnes and Noble and that section is huge. Rachel: Yeah, they're probably the no ball and satisfying. Tee: Yeah. A hundred percent. And I'm glad for it. I mean I'm so glad for it. Like it's so nice now that there's so many books that are the kind that I want to read now and I can easily find them, which is really nice 'cause it was a lot harder, you know, fifteen years ago. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: before we go to the next question, I just wanted to probe a little bit now that we have a little ⁓ more of an understanding on your background as a reader, ⁓ that then sort of inspired your your author journey. Can you take us through order of your series as you wrote them and how how you evolved as a writer and ⁓ the genres sort of shifted ⁓ as you continued writing? Tee: Yeah, I mean I've always liked magic. So I knew whatever I wrote, it was gonna be like rooted in magic. And so I fell into paranormal women's fiction honestly because it was just a business decision. I I wanted, you know, I I had been querying for a long time. I had an agent, but nothing ever happened. I had book after book I was writing and it was just piling up on shelves because they weren't selling in the trad space. ⁓ and I had a friend who also was in the trad space, but went indie and was just doing amazingly well writing alien romance. ⁓ I knew that that was not my thing. Like I was like, I'm not, you know, it's it's awesome. Alien romance is awesome, but it's just not my thing. I didn't I that wasn't something I wanted to write, but I was like, I need she was like, okay, so you need to find a niche that's not so popular, so oversaturated that it will be really hard to break into, but something that is popular enough that you can start writing in it. ⁓ ⁓ you know, just be able to be like have some success. And so I found Paranormal Women's Fiction and I just loved it. I love the whole idea behind it. I I read like six or seven books immediately ⁓ by some of like the top paranormal women's fiction authors like K.F. Breen and Shannon Mayer and Deborah Wilde, all those books. and yeah, I just loved it. It was so funny. It was just so like cozy and I don't know, it there were so many elements I really love. So I wrote my first paranormal women's fiction series, but when I was done writing it, I did kind of realize I want more romance, ⁓ more spice. Like those are things I really love. And those aren't as like paranormal women's fiction is not romance. It's focused on like the woman's journey, you know, and romance is like a subplot. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: So was really missing that. And that's when I decided to pivot to fantasy romance because I was thinking about those original books I read, you know, like by Sharon Shinn and Juliet Morillier and Anne Bishop. And what I loved most about those books was like the romance mixed with the magic. And that's what I wanted to write. And I was also a little burned out on because that was like a series, you know. ⁓ it wasn't like super cliffhangery. Like I feel like each book. was also satisfactory in like their ending, but there is like a mystery that kept the series going. And ⁓ I just like I like writing about different characters each book and not having to like keep writing about the same characters book after book. So that all of that kind of influenced my decision to pivot to fantasy romance. ⁓ Rachel: Okay. as you're explaining these different genres and like the expectations of like the subplot of romance, but it's not the main plot. This is very interesting to me because I guess I understand, you know, from talking to different authors as part of the writing and sort of whether you're releasing as indie or, you know, querying and going through the traditional ⁓ avenue, finding those sort of ⁓ like similar books is like a big part of it, right? ⁓ but I didn't realize it was so intense that you actually had to think about, ⁓ I want spice, but I can't add spice because it's not then it would take it out of the genre. ⁓ that's very interesting. Tee: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I do want to be clear, like there is paranormal women's fiction with spice, but ⁓ are genre expectations and it is not romance. Romance would make would take it out of the genre. Like it would not be paranormal women's fiction if there's a focus on the romance, because that is not the genre expectation. And yeah, as an author, you have to do research about because there are no matter what, even like for my friend, like alien romance, there are very specific tropes and genre expectations that make it Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: alien romance and that readers want because they read one book, they love it, and they want another book exactly like it, but like with a different, you know, with a different author's spin on it, different characters, different backgrounds, different wounds or whatever. So yeah, you always have to do research about the genre. And I mean that's something I'm always, you know, on top of and making sure even like genres change and expectations can change within a genre. So like when I decided to kind of Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: go cozier after Stolen Crowns, like I immediately read a ton of cozy romantasy so I could better understand like the the reader expectations and genre expectations for cozy. So yeah. Kate: So I think that that's a pretty good transition to talk about tropes a little bit. I think you know it's it's interesting that you say that there's these expectations, you have the tropes. And I feel like nowadays people ⁓ are like readers, I should say, are looking for a trope and finding books based on trope, right? And ⁓ I we saw that on your website, you even have the option ⁓ Tee: Mm-hmm. Kate: To browse your book catalog by trope, which we love at at Deep Trope Podcast. Yes, we we ⁓ tend to focus on the tropes a lot. ⁓ so we love that you have that option to to be able to kind of filter the catalog and and shop for kind of what you're looking to read from a trope perspective. So I wanted to ask, which tropes are your absolute favorite to write? Tee: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I love like my f I have discovered my absolute favorite trope is second chance romance, which is I feel like not insanely popular in romantasy. I mean, there's definitely some good like second chance romance, but I feel like that's more like contemporary, like that's a very popular contemporary trope, but my god, I love second chance romance because I love like the yearning ⁓ that goes with that. I don't know, there's just something about it all the microtropes that you can. ⁓ Kate: Mm-hmm. Tee: sprinkle in with that. I love all of it. I love enemies to lovers. Everyone loves enemies. How can you not? Enemies to lovers is so much fun. ⁓ yeah, it's so much fun. And then like with Damsel, I wrote b I love Forbidden as well. Like I love that Forbidden aspect where there's some reason they can't be together ⁓ but they're falling for each other. So those are probably my favorites right now. Rachel: Mm. Kate: Mm-hmm. That's my personal favorite. Rachel: Mm-hmm. So what I'm hearing is you just love some really intense like tension between them. Yeah. Tee: Yeah. Yes. I love playing with the tension and building the tension. Yeah, absolutely. Kate: Yeah. And we love reading it, let me tell you. I also saw that there's a lot, like when I I was playing around with the filters just to to browse your whole catalog. And you also have a lot of the small town books. So what is it about a small town story that resonates with you? Rachel: Ha ha ha Tee: Mm. Yeah, yeah. I just love the found family aspect of it. I love like the coziness of it that you can have these all these side characters and they can keep coming back ⁓ book after book. Cause even if it's a different couple, I'm still saying staying in like the same town. So you can kind of I just love that you can like really intimately get to know a place and it almost kind of becomes like a character. The town itself becomes like a character that people love and then they're like, I wish I could move there. I would live there if I could, you know. ⁓ yeah, I think that's what appeals most to it about me. I love the coziness of it. I I like just being able to like really explore intimately one place. throughout a series and not have to like like with my Stolen Crown series, every book I was moving to a new place in the series based on like where the couple was and whatever. And I just felt like I couldn't really explore each place as much as I wanted to because I could only spend like one book on it. so I like just being able to explore like different facets of Rachel: Mm. Tee: a small town and e introduce, you know, even like a new character might pop up that we like we get to meet the butcher. We never got to meet him before, you know, and just I I like all that about small towns. So yeah, that's kind of where I like to to stay at least right now. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: So that's I hopefully this isn't too much of a spoiler if it is please tell me and I'll I'll cut it out. But that that makes sense some of the choices that you made in This Damsel is not in distress because you're s getting to travel but you still kinda keep the town. Tee: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I like like like for me, though I do get bored writing the same thing over and over and over. So for this damsel is not in distress, I like, how can I have that small town feel? But it's not necessarily just another small town. Like in Moonflower Witches, they live in just a small little town called Thistle Grove. And I was like, I don't really want to write that again. So for me, the castle is kind of the small town. Rachel: Uh-huh. Tee: And that's what we're really like exploring throughout the series is the castle and all of its features and all of its quirky little characters and things like that. But that's kind of like my intimate little small town setting is the castle itself. So Rachel: Yeah. Well Kate: Yeah, that's fun. And so you you cover a lot of tropes in your books, but are there any that you are just not interested in exploring? Are there any that you just tend to avoid? Tee: Yeah. I don't definitely not gonna say like like never say never. ⁓ because there's things that I always thought I didn't like, but then I'll read it in a book and I'm my God. ⁓ so like I thought I never wanted to write like age gap, for instance. Like I was like, that just doesn't really appeal to me. But you know, then I read like, ⁓ what was it called? by Ali Hazelwood. It's like summer. ⁓ Something I wish I could remember. Anyways, it was an age gap, and I was like obsessed with it. And I was like, my god, I want to write something like this now. ⁓ but so I have I I haven't really done age gap. I don't think I I don't think I have. ⁓ I have ⁓ like hard. I'm like, wait a minute, have I though? Like I've written so many books, I can't always remember. ⁓ like pregnancy is I've never read one of those books. Actually, I have, yes, I have. I've read Amy Daws, and that was really good too. But Rachel: ⁓ Kate: Ha ha ha. Yeah. Tee: I right now I don't think I wanna write like that's like one I w I'm not super interested in right now. Fated Mates is another one that like I have written that, but it doesn't I have a hard time with Fated Mates keeping the tension, ⁓ which that could be like a me problem, because I know Fated Mates is super popular and there's lots of books that do a great job with tension between them, even if they're mates and you know, for reasons they can't Rachel: Mm. Kate: Mm. Tee: Whatever, be together, but that's another one that ⁓ doesn't appeal to me as much. So yeah, but I I don't know if there's anything I would never write because like I said, like I don't know, I'll read something and an author does it really well and I'm like, ⁓ now I want to do that. Challenge accepted, now I want to try. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: Yeah, I I I like that that ⁓ outlook because as a reader, I feel kind of similarly. Like there's tropes that I'm like, I I wouldn't seek this out, right? But then if I read it in a book, like I like being surprised. ⁓ you know, like I on the podcast I complain a lot about like miscommunication tropes as being one that I'm I'm not a big fan of. But Tee: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Kate: you know, if it's done well. Like I'm open I'm open to enjoying it. You know, I don't like to to think that I it would close off my, you know, my reading journey to something exclusively because of like a label that it has, right? Like the right author, the right story can speak to you. And yeah, it sounds like as an author that would kind of work Tee: Yeah. Yeah. Kate: similarly for you of like if you find that inspiration and it works, then yeah, why why shut off that that avenue arbitrarily? Tee: Right. Yeah, a hundred percent. Kate: So moving to ⁓ talking about kind of your journey as an author, like you said, you've read you've written so many books and you have ⁓ just this great catalog now that you've built as an indie author, but congratulations on potions and prejudice being picked up for traditional release. Tee: Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, thank you. Kate: So that's that's quite a a transition that's gonna be happening. So like I said, you've been in this the indie space for quite some time, but can you tell us a little bit about this experience with traditional publishing and the journey from indie to Trad? Tee: Mm. Yeah. What's crazy is that I started out on the trad journey. So like, you know, when I realized I was miserable teaching and my husband was like, you should pursue writing, like that's what you got your degree in. You're an amazing author, blah, blah, blah, blah. ⁓ that was where I kind of started. and for six years I queried with the hopes of going trad and it just wasn't working. And that's when I decided to go indie. And when I went indie, I realized that it was absolutely the the right path for me. Like Trad would never have worked for me in the long term as like my sole as my sole avenue. Because I just I love having control. And I love being able to yeah, like I'm a control freak and I like I like being able to choose my own covers and decide my own timelines. And you know, you can't control so much of that with Trad. So Rachel: Mm. Tee: Trad is a really cool experience and I'm I'm really grateful that Potions is gonna go trad I'm gonna get that experience. But I think I've that it's just it's a nice ⁓ kind of way to diversify my income ⁓ and a great way to ⁓ be and have my foot in both doors. But indie is is like where I'm mostly interested. that is I wanna be a hybrid author. I I I don't think I could ever see myself Rachel: Mm-hmm. I'm gonna get that experience. But I think Tee: Being only trad. Rachel: Okay. ⁓ that's that's interesting because I was curious with the traditional publishing deal if that would affect any of your other books. Tee: Yeah, I mean I've pretty much told my agent like I want and so she knows we're on the same, you know, wavelength that like I I want to keep the rights to my other books. But there are specific projects that I will be happy to pitch Trad because they might just work better for Trad and not as well for my indie brand because they're standalone ideas or they just don't like fit my brand as well, but they would work well for Trad. So Rachel: Mm. Tee: ⁓ it's just kind of like decisions like that now that I can kind of like make going forward. What what do I want to go trad If people will take it's not like, you know, I can just make that decision. Someone has to offer on it and whatever, but like what are projects I'd be willing to pitch at least versus series that I will keep the full rights to? Rachel: Mm-hmm. Okay. Have you ⁓ had to make any changes to potions and prejudice? Tee: Honestly, no. It was really nice. My editor was like it's very it's very clean. I was really lucky and happy about that. So honestly there's like no changes I've had to make. So Kate: Wow, that sounds ideal. Rachel: That's amazing. Yeah. Tee: Yes, it is. And they like used, I was really happy they they because they don't always do this, you know. I've heard horror stories from some authors about covers and things like that that but they like came to me and asked what I want to do with my covers and if I'd like to keep like my special edition cover design, which was very well received and everyone just loves that special edition cover art and so they are are using that, which I was really happy for the artists too, 'cause that means, you know, they had to buy the licensing from her and the rights and things like that. So I'm I'm really happy that they like got my opinions on that and stuff. Rachel: Well, this seems like quite the ideal trad experience, especially when you're describing like being a control freak, which I get it. like that would be so challenging to give up that control and the fact that they really empowered you through this experience sounds yeah. Tee: Yeah. Kate: Mm. Ha ha. Tee: Yeah, it's been nice. I've had like so far everything has been good. We'll see how things go as we get closer to like release day and stuff. But like so far I've had a really positive experience with my editor and everything. So Rachel: That's great. Kate: That's great. And what what are some of the kind of ⁓ elements that would help you to decide whether you would like in the future pursue traditional versus indie? Like what what's that decision look like on your end? Tee: Yeah. So like I, for example, I thought I had an idea for a book. ⁓ but it is not like I won't give too many details about it, but it's just not like my normal genre for indie. And also I just had the idea for a standalone, not a series. And I was like, well, this would be perfect for trad because like for my indie brand, it would be a little confusing. ⁓ because it's not like my normal indie brand. And then also it's a It's a standalone and I'm not saying it's impossible because there's always authors who are, you know, doing amazing things with just standalones. But for most of us, standalones are not how you make money as an indie author. ⁓ it's really hard to like make, you know, money off of a standalone. What you make money on is like the read through in a series. So releasing a standalone wouldn't be as beneficial to me as an indie author. So like that's something I'd be willing to like pitch. as a trad project and see if they would wanna, you know, publish it. Kate: Interesting. Tee: Yeah. Rachel: So you have, as we've said, quite a few books out, and it seems like you write several a year, release several a year, which is just wildly impressive. how are you doing this? What is your secret? Tee: Mm. Mm-hmm. Kate: Mm-hmm. Tee: Honestly, what I have learned more than anything is that so much of it has to do with like the way that we're wired. And so I don't know if you guys know the Clifton strengths, but the Clifton strengths are like very popular in the author community. And there's a person named Becca Syme who solely focuses on using Clifton strengths. Kate: Yes. Tee: For authors and helping them understand their strengths and understand how they're wired so they can have like a long and happy career because like what will happen is an author will see another author doing something that's very successful and then they'll try to do it and they'll fail at it and then they'll be like, Well, I'm just not cut out for this. But really, that's not the case. What's the case is that they're not understanding like how they're wired and how they best work. And so I love that. I love the Clifton strengths. I feel like they're very accurate. But what I've learned, like my top three strengths, my number one strength is focus. Number two is achiever. Number three is discipline. So like I am like built to work. Like that is I like to work. I like to achieve. I'm very good at like focusing. I'm very disciplined with my writing. And so it's how I'm wired. And it just it makes it a lot easier for me to fast draft. And also Rachel: Mm. Tee: Like I had my own editing business while I was querying and on the trad path. I got certified in editing and I edited like hundreds of manuscripts and doing all of that really helped me as well. Like learn a lot about structure and story development. And so ⁓ I write relatively like clean first drafts. Rachel: Mm. Tee: That helps a lot too. So I mean there's a lot of different things at play, but mainly I honestly am just like it's how I'm wired. I just write fast and I'm I'm really good at like giving myself deadlines and meeting those deadlines and yeah. And that's mainly what I like to do. I like to write over everything. Cause some people do. They love the marketing or they love, you know, making TikToks and reels and all of that is great because everyone has different strengths and different things that they love about the business. But for me I really just love like the drafting and the revising the most. So that's what I focus on. Kate: That's so cool that you you mentioned the Clifton strengths because I actually I did that with my my my day job. and yes, they do. And and I I I've done a few of those like personality type tests over the years. Like when Rachel and I worked together, ⁓ we did one, I forget what it was called, but it was predictive index, yeah. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: Yeah, yes, they do it a lot in the corporate world. I've learned. Yeah. Rachel: Predictive index. It's literally two questions. Tee: Mm. Kate: Yeah. So we we did that one, you know, so but I I like the Clifton Strengths one the best. So I I've really found that it I felt like it was accurate and it actually to your point like kind of helped to understand how I work best and to work towards those strengths. Cause it's one thing to like understand, you know, your personality type or your work type, but like to actually be able to focus on the strengths. So Tee: Yes. Yes. Yes. Kate: Yeah, I I like that. And the fact that you had those as your top, I'm like, yeah, that this makes so much sense now, how you're able to get through all of this because ⁓ yeah, it's ⁓ that that's really cool that that's something that kind of helped you to understand why this could work for you, you know. Tee: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like it helps cut out the noise, which is nice. Because like a lot of times I would like there is discourse on ⁓ threads and other places where people are like, you know, if I'm suspicious of any authors who draft too fast, or like even from authors, there would be things like, you know, ⁓ authors who who Kate: Right. Rachel: Mm. Tee: draft faster just trying to make a lot of money and they're not putting care and time into their books. And like, but I hadn't taken Clifton Strengths at that point. I just knew I write really fast. That's how I am. And ⁓ some of that would get in my head and I'm like, ⁓ man, do I need to like slow down? But then when I tried to really slow down, it totally messed me up. And like I could not like get back into things. You know, I'd be like, wait, where was I at in the scene? I don't even remember now what they were doing or saying. Like ⁓ Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: So it just totally messed me up. And so then when I took the Clifton strengths, it was very like affirming and I could I could cut out all that noise then and be like, Okay, this is how I am and it works for me and I'm gonna lean into it. Kate: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also what you were saying about like un understanding your strengths, also understanding your weaknesses and not beating yourself up with something if you know something is not ⁓ part of your main skill set. Okay, that's fine. Let's focus on what is, right? Tee: Mm-hmm. Kate: Right. Tee: Exactly. Yeah. Kate: Exactly. Yeah, because that that's something else the the kind of analysis from that test does is like it identifies some of your weaknesses and not necessarily as because I like some of the some of the other test types like that will focus on your weaknesses and be like, well, you need to build up on these and and instead being able to focus on like, okay, you can identify them, but we're gonna focus on your strengths and that's how you're going to grow and that's how you're going to succeed. Tee: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, I Mm-hmm. Kate: ⁓ which is just a a very different perspective, but is is really helpful. So clearly you're very disciplined. Do you have kind of like a like what does a day of writing look like? You know, do you have like a structure that you tend to keep when you're you're in the middle of writing? Tee: Yes. A hundred per cent. Yeah. I mean, I wish that would be like my dream life if I could, but I have two small kids. So it is impossible to have any structure with two small children. so I do my best. ⁓ yeah, I just get writing in like literally whenever I can. I mean, luckily this year, this was the first year my daughter was in kindergarten and then my son went to preschool three days a week. And that was amazing because yeah, then I can like Kate: Ha ha ha. Tee: It would be like drop the kids off, come home, make my coffee, sit down, draft like half of my daily word count, whatever my goal was for that day, because I know exactly how many words I have to write every single day to meet a deadline that I want to meet. And then I try and like get up and like walk and work out. And a lot of times like walking helps me. ⁓ like while I'm walking, I'll be thinking about Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: If there was something wrong with what I was writing or it wasn't clicking, it really like helps me unblock whatever the problem is. And then I'll come back and I'll finish, you know, my words. And then I have certain days of the week. Like I'm I have my own Shopify store and we converted our garage into a warehouse. And so I'm doing a lot of like physical sales. And so Thursdays are like my shipping and fulfillment days. So that's when like I'm in my warehouse packing books and getting them ready to send out. So I have a little bit of structure, but Rachel: Mm-hmm. Tee: As far as writing goes, when my kids are home, I'm just like, ⁓ my god, they're playing together, they're distracted, grab my laptop, start writing. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: They're distracted. Grab my laptop and Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: Well that's I mean, that's wildly impressive that you're able to kind of squeeze it in while the kids are around and ⁓ and yeah, yeah. Tee: I think it's the focus. The number one focus helps. Like I can just I can quickly like that's another thing. Like some people are like, Do you need complete silence to write or whatever? And I'm like, no, I will literally write anywhere and everywhere that I can. ⁓ so I think like my focus helps me with that. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: Yeah. Kate: Yeah, I honestly am jealous. I think focus focus is probably the bottom of my Clifton strengths. my number one was actually context, which is basically like I just I want the background. I can't make a decision. I don't want to like move forward with something until I get the background, which makes so much sense for me. Okay, so you get it, you get it. Rachel: I know. Tee: Yeah. Yeah, okay. Mm-hmm. Yes. I'm number four context, so I understand context well. Yes. Yep. Rachel: Well now I it sounds like I have a new quiz to take. Tee: Yes, do it. I love. Kate: Yeah, honestly, I I really liked it. Like a lot of times I feel like these tests are like, okay, what is the we're spending so much time on this. What am I actually learning? How is this actually benefiting me? But Clifton Strengths was the first one that I was like, ⁓ wow, this is helpful. Tee: Yes, it is. It really is. And like I said, it's very popular in the author community. Like in all the discords I'm in, there's always a Clifton Strikes channel where like we're talking about our Clifton Strengths and you know, talking out like and Becca Syme is very popular as well in the author community. And she does tons of coaching and has a whole academy and yeah, so Rachel: Mm. Kate: Mm-hmm. Tee: It's something a lot of authors use and it's yeah, for me it's been very helpful. So I always recommend it to authors who are stuck. Like first thing I'm like, take the Clifton Strengths test and see how you're wired first and then like move on from there. Rachel: Mm-hmm. Kate: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I like we ⁓ you have like these these ideas of things that you want to do. And I'm like, yeah, that would be great if only I could change who I am fundamentally as a person in order to actually do that, you know? Tee: Yes. Mm-hmm. I know. Rachel: Yeah. Alright, well we're gonna close with some rapid fire questions. All right. Are you ready? Do you need drink? Tee: I'm ready. Maybe let me take a sip of my coffee. Kate: Ha ha ha. Tee: Okay. Rachel: If you could pick only one of your FMCs to write over and over again, which one would you pick? Tee: Honestly, I think my current one, which I can't even like disclose her name or anything, but it's the final book in the Brothers, of the Fairwitch Isle series. And I'm ha I'm just I'm having so much fun with this one. So I think it would be her because she's just so complicated and that makes her really fun to write. Kate: Yeah. Rachel: ⁓ I love that. Okay. Same question for MMCs. Tee: ⁓ man. ⁓ probably this one's a lot harder. Probably like s I love ⁓ Bastion from Stolen Crowns because he's a morally grey pirate, but he's really snarky and funny. He's like based off of Killian ⁓ from or I don't know if it's Jones, but he's based off of Killian from Once Upon a Time, who plays, you know. Rachel: Mm. Tee: Captain Hook or whatever. And he's just like such a fun character. Again, like he's complicated. He's morally gray, but he's not broody. He's very like charming and funny. And I like writing those types of MMCs. Rachel: If you could spend a day in one of your fictional kingdoms as a background character, which one would it be and why? Tee: I mean definitely Brothers of Fairwitch Isle. I think it would be so much fun to be in like a sentient castle and to like see like a painting that's just like gossiping and moving around and like, you know, bickering gargoyle statues and a suit of armor that threatens everyone because he like forgets who you are and thinks he's like a real knight, you know, that needs to guard everybody. I know that'd be so much fun. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: Ha ha ha. Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: What is your must have writing snack or beverage when you're deep in a deadline? Tee: Coffee, always coffee. I'm addicted. Dutch Bros specifically, or a local shop that we have, but yeah. Yep. Yeah. Kate: Ha ha ha. Rachel: That's fair. Kate: Cheers. Rachel: Yeah. Are there any side characters from your work that ended up becoming much bigger than you anticipated when you first wrote them? Tee: Yes. So I have a character named Driscoll. He's a side character. He's like your sassy, like gay best friend. And he's awesome. And he's very honest and always tells you what is he's thinking. ⁓ but he was in the first book of Stolen Crowns, Mirror Malice. And honestly, he was in like the first few chapters and like the first and like the last few chapters. But readers loved him so much. I was like, I have to put him in the rest of the series. So like Because of how much readers loved him, he ended up being the side character in all the books. And he ended up like going on this journey where he was somehow like becoming like the sidekick in all these different couples like journeys. And he was like, I'm so sick of this. Get me out of this. I just want to go back home. And like, you know, but readers loved him so much. I was like, I have to put him in all the books. And so yeah, he's de he was definitely like a a favorite. Yeah. Kate: Mm-hmm. Rachel: That's so fun. I mean, I'm I'm hoping that ⁓ Morton becomes that because I love me some Morton. Tee: I know. Morton's another one. Everyone loves Morton. Yeah, he he'll be in all the books. Everyone loves him, so I won't I won't do anything to Morton. I'm a cozy writer. I don't break your hearts or anything like that. So yeah. Kate: Ha ha ha And we thank you for that. Rachel: Mm-hmm. finally, what are you reading right now? Tee: What am I? Let me look at my ⁓ I'm reading the final ⁓ book in the Amy Daws Mountain Man series, which is Bad Boys Era, and it is fantastic. I'm obsessed. It's already so good. So highly recommend. Rachel: Okay, you are the second person this week who has recommended that to me, so noted. Tee: It's so good. I love the whole series is really good, but this one might be my favorite because like the the MMC is very like broody and mysterious and I just like I eat that up. I love that. That's another like microtrope. It's so good. So yeah, I ha and he has an Irish accent. How can you not? Yeah. Yes. Go run. And they're all standalone. So like I mean I I recommend reading the whole series. Like I think the whole series is great, but ⁓ Rachel: Sold. Kate: ⁓ say less. Tee: Yeah, you could start with that one and you wouldn't not understand it or anything like that. So Rachel: Okay. That sounds like perfect for Kate. Kate: Perfect. Yes, it does. Rachel: Well, this has been so much fun. I've really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the pod Tee where can our listeners find you to learn more? Tee: Yeah. Yeah, I mean everywhere I'm Tee Harlowe, it's very easy to find me because I'm like the only one. So ⁓ you could go to my website, T E E H A R L O W E dot com or like Instagram, I'm Tee Harlowe, TikTok, I'm Tee Harlowe. I'm most active on Instagram. ⁓ and then my website, yeah. Kate: I recommend to our listeners to check out your website because again, I do I love shop by trope. I love that option. ⁓ So I think our listeners would appreciate that. Tee: Yay. Okay, good. Good feedback. I'm glad people like that. Kate: Yeah. And to our listeners again, thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Deep Trope. Next week we'll be sharing our thoughts on Light Wielder by Rachel So if you haven't read it yet, you've got one week to catch up, but don't worry, it's a quick read. And then the following week, on July 14th, we begin our deep dive of the Silversmith by LJ Claren. Rachel: So we have some reading to do, so let's get out of here and back to our books. See you next week. Kate: Bye.