Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of The Power of the Doctor

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of The Power of the Doctor · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:23
None a. Hamster with a blunt penknife
0:35
for doing. Quicker, quicker.
0:39
Welcome back to A Hamster with A Blunt Penknife, the Doctor Who
0:43
Commentary Podcast where we are celebrating 60 fabulous years of
0:51
the wonderful, amazing and beautiful television show Doctor
0:57
Who. We're here and I'm not telling
1:01
you who yet, you could probably guess.
1:03
Joe's here. Yeah, we are here.
1:05
Yeah, we are here to have a look at last year's wonderful 60th
1:11
anniversary special. That wasn't the 60th anniversary
1:13
special. It should have been the BBC's
1:17
centenary special of Doctor Who, which could have been the very
1:21
last episode of Doctor Who on TV, quite possibly.
1:26
The Power of the Doctor So hello, I'm Psy and I'm joined by
1:30
my fabulous and amazing friends Joe and Fraser.
1:36
Or Fraser. Hi.
1:40
I was just going to say. Happy birthday to you, but I
1:47
won't do the whole song yet. We're the only podcast and you
1:50
know I say we're because you two are effectively Co hosts the
1:54
amount of times you turn up on this thing.
1:55
Now we're the only podcast that celebrates last year's Doctor
2:00
Who story on the anniversary this year.
2:03
Does that make us out of date, Fraser?
2:05
No, it doesn't, but. You know, so is this the 60th
2:10
anniversary special then, or is this the 100th anniversary
2:12
special? Are we celebrating 6 years of
2:15
Doctor Who? 100 years of BBC this evening.
2:19
Sure. Yes.
2:20
Yes, we are. Is the right answer?
2:24
Yes. Yeah, you know it.
2:27
Because if this this has got everything you want from a
2:31
anniversary Doctor Who special to celebrate Doctor Who, isn't
2:34
it. It's got.
2:38
Multiple doctors, multiple villains all coming together.
2:44
With multiple companions. Yes.
2:47
Yeah, the tomb of Raslon. Oh no, wait, that's another
2:50
story. Time Lord stuff to the wazoo.
2:54
Daleks, Cybermen. The Master.
2:57
I mean, it's all in here, isn't it?
2:59
And it's got your favorite monster of all, Joe.
3:02
Who, what? Who?
3:03
Megan Jovanka oh, Jesus Christ. I will get to her, yeah.
3:09
And obviously, UNIT Gemma Redgrave, you know, I've got his
3:12
favorite character. Yep.
3:15
And you know, it's it's brilliant.
3:20
It is brilliant. So there we go.
3:23
Thank you very much for listening well.
3:26
I wonder what I was going to say before we even go in.
3:29
And I thought, let's all give it a little preamble of like, OK,
3:32
it's been a year, so we've got an opinion on this thing.
3:35
I watched it this week and I messaged both of you today and
3:39
said this could be in my top three of the new series.
3:43
It's certainly one of my absolute favorite of Jodie's.
3:47
It's possibly my favorite master story of all time.
3:52
And is easily my favorite master performance of all time.
3:57
So this is ticking huge boxes for me, and I wouldn't want
4:00
every Doctor Who storage to be like this because there's loads
4:02
going on in this. It's got a frantic pace, it's
4:06
juggling balls all the time, but it doesn't drop any of those
4:11
balls. That's the that's the thing that
4:13
astonished me about this, is that he packs in everything but
4:17
the kitchen sink and he aces every fucking part of it.
4:22
So it's almost like the ultimate finger in your face.
4:27
Sorry, I'm doing this to you 2 now.
4:28
Holding up a finger to all of his detractors just as the doors
4:32
swinging behind him you know of like, there you go.
4:35
That's how good I am. See you later.
4:37
Mic drop ship not departs. It's kind of I always think The
4:46
Day of the Doctor is a celebration of the new series.
4:50
And was the 50th anniversary and celebrating what the new series
4:54
had done with Doctor Who since 2005.
4:58
But this is a love letter to the classic series, and for possibly
5:03
the last time, maybe. I suspect this will be the last
5:07
time we see the classic Doctors on screen in most shape or form.
5:14
I There might be be other things, but this is a love
5:17
letter to the. 80s particularly, and it for me that that makes it
5:23
something really, really special.
5:25
This is my era being celebrated here.
5:29
Why is it? Yeah, I mean, you know, you know
5:33
me. I don't really have opinions on
5:35
things. It's all right, yeah.
5:37
So I'm just spitting out my coffee now.
5:41
My bum. I've just puckered then for a
5:42
second. Stop it.
5:48
Yeah, I mean, he went out on a high, didn't he trip though, he
5:53
he came in his final series, flux.
5:58
You know when he knocked that out the park, he knocked his
6:01
Christmas special out the park. And he obviously had the legend
6:05
of the Sea Devils, which. You know has its detractors.
6:08
I think it's a perfectly reasonable episode of Doctor
6:12
Who. I think the problem is it
6:13
becomes between two such excellent episodes that you
6:17
can't help but look down on a little bit.
6:18
But then he's final one is is magnificent.
6:22
It's a two out of force of just everything that you guys have
6:26
said. You know it's it's
6:29
action-packed. It's got real character moments
6:32
in it. You know, it brings all these
6:36
elements in, celebrates so much whilst still really looking
6:39
forward. You know it gives one of, if not
6:42
the best departures for a doctor we've ever had right at the very
6:48
end. And you look back and you think
6:51
no other show and has really went out on such a high as this.
6:55
You know RTD left with End of Time, which is decent, but it's
7:02
not as good as stuff that you've had before.
7:05
Steven Moffat went out with Twice Upon a Time which again
7:08
you know could have been better. But you know you look at this
7:12
and you think what has Chris Chibnall done that's better than
7:15
this? You've got to really look at
7:17
Flux as a whole and think maybe he's that, you know, So those
7:21
six episodes of One story pushes it a little bit.
7:25
But as a stand alone, you know, story episode of Doctor Who,
7:29
this is as good as not only Chris Chibnall is getting, but
7:32
as good as pretty much anyone else has got.
7:34
By the time. We get to Jodie's regeneration
7:38
in this, yeah. It's the first time for me since
7:41
Christopher Eccleston where I've genuinely wanted to grab that
7:45
doctor and say no, don't go. End of time at about you know
7:49
more endings and Return of the King and by the end I was going
7:52
will you just go already. Obviously I wanted Matt Smith
7:56
gone in time with the Doctor Jesus Christ so two seasons
7:58
earlier would have been nice and with Peter Kaport.
8:01
Now let me have my opinion. Don't you roll your eyes on me
8:04
and. With Peter Capaldi, he had that
8:06
speech that was so long, it was basically the Gettysburg
8:09
Address. I was like, God, will this ever
8:11
end, just change her? Whereas she gets a wonderfully
8:16
positive ending, and we haven't had that since Christopher
8:21
Eccleston, you know, that was the most positive end since
8:23
then. And yeah, I I I genuinely didn't
8:27
want her to go at the end of this.
8:29
So my only real issue with this is David Turner come along at
8:32
the end, but we'll get there. Look at that.
8:36
Hang on. What?
8:38
What? What?
8:38
What? What?
8:45
It's true. No, because I I remember getting
8:48
to the end of this and going, oh, after all of that
8:50
excitement, oh, there's David Tennant.
8:52
Well, I knew it was coming, but. Excellent.
8:57
Months you've spent telling me how excited you are for Tennant
9:00
to come back. And that's well, yeah, I've seen
9:02
a trailer with Beep, the Meep and Donna Noble, Sylvia Noble,
9:06
Wilfred Mott, all those fabulous things.
9:08
I'm so excited. Sorry, sorry.
9:12
But it is brilliant. It's Jodie is superb.
9:16
That's all I'm going to say and we will cover all the way.
9:19
She's superb shortly. I have two words that I'm going
9:24
to keep throwing at you guys as we go through this episode.
9:30
Subtle. And goodbye.
9:34
Subtle. And goodbye.
9:35
She's certainly subtle in a wonderful way.
9:38
And goodbye. All right, Well, that's that's
9:40
an enticing suggestion there, isn't it?
9:44
Can I just say one more thing then, before we press play?
9:47
Yes. And that is, I genuinely think
9:51
this is one of the best directed Doctor Who stories of all time.
9:54
Every time I watch this, I am so impressed with how Jamie Magna
9:59
Stone. He juggles up all of these
10:01
locations, all of these plot lines, all of these characters,
10:05
all of these action set pieces. And I said to you guys in a
10:08
message, there's like a kinetic energy to this.
10:12
It never ever stops moving until we get quiet character moments
10:17
and then he aces those as well. He just uses his cameras angles
10:21
beautifully to sort of really deliver the emotion.
10:25
I think he had a near impossible task.
10:27
With this script, because it's so busy, but and especially like
10:33
watch the train sequence at the beginning and how he's zooming
10:36
in and out on top into it along it like you're never not sure of
10:42
where you are and you're never not being assaulted with
10:46
exceptional gorgeous images. I just, I I think it's a a
10:50
truly, truly impressive piece of work.
10:52
Directorially. He's.
10:55
Brilliant. Absolutely fine.
10:57
Doesn't he? An absolute faint.
10:59
Yeah. If Rusty's got any sense, you'll
11:00
have signed on backup for more. Obviously I've done that.
11:04
He has wants to do his own thing.
11:06
But my yeah. And you look, look at the three
11:11
episodes he did of looks, which was Halloween, Apocalypse and
11:19
war. The Santorin's and Village of
11:20
the Angels. You know, you look at those and
11:24
gorgeous. Absolutely stunning.
11:27
You know the the battlefields in the recreation of the Crimea in
11:32
war. This on torrents is just
11:34
something else so. Cliffhanger at the end of the
11:36
Halloween apocalypse, as we go from person to person, you know,
11:39
and all that. Where again, he's having to
11:41
juggle a loads of stuff and he absolutely lets you know where
11:45
every character is at the end of that episode, you know?
11:48
Yeah. Yeah, he's the director of this
11:51
era, I think. For sure, and I do think there's
11:54
other strong directors here as well.
11:56
But he's like the Harper and the Talele of this era, isn't it?
12:01
Definitely. What do you think?
12:03
We should watch him in action. You know, it's much more fun
12:05
just talking Oh. OK.
12:08
Commentary. Podcast.
12:10
What would you like to talk about?
12:12
Well, let's play in them, OK? Well, facetious, Fraser.
12:17
You can count as in then. Cool.
12:19
OK, in 543? 21 Make train go now can.
12:27
I let you know, not on a particular secret of mine.
12:29
I love things set on trains. I just love it.
12:32
Something about trains and there's been so few Doctor Who
12:35
stories set on trains and there should be more when when I was
12:39
young getting in early. And you know, and we've got the
12:46
guidelines for for writing a new adventure.
12:49
My my story was a Doctor Who story set on a train.
12:54
So there you go. I didn't get any further than
12:56
than that really, but there we go.
12:58
That was my idea. And then it took till Mummy on
13:01
the Orient Express. Oh.
13:03
Gorgeous. Another great.
13:05
Oh, look at the Cybermen there. Oh my God.
13:07
Coming out of the I'm scared we're going to do this a lot,
13:10
you know? Look at that.
13:11
Oh my God. Yeah.
13:14
I just thought we were going to list the two dozen stories that
13:17
are set on trains now, because that's usually what happens when
13:19
someone makes a bold statement. There is a train in the BBC book
13:23
Eaters of Wasps. There's also a train in Lugaru,
13:25
the Big Finnish Audio and maybe on the Oil Express.
13:28
But that's about all I can think of, actually.
13:31
One Nightmare of Eden might as well be set on a train.
13:32
It's got very train like bits in it.
13:34
Doesn't I mean like an Earth train, You know, like, like
13:36
this, you know? Well, this isn't an Earth train.
13:39
This is a space train. Sharp, you.
13:43
They're regenerating. Do you know what?
13:45
Yeah, we talked about the timeless children, the three of
13:48
us. What is still one of the most?
13:50
Listened to episodes of a hamster with a blood penknife.
13:52
Because everyone loves that PowerPoint.
13:56
As you say, and I've lost my. Trail of thought?
14:01
Yeah, sorry, the side masters, but I think this is the first
14:04
time we sort of really use the side masters in a really sort of
14:08
dramatic way. It really works.
14:10
Yeah, I'm glad they're they're back and they seem really power,
14:14
powerful and unstoppable and oh, it's aces chain Link.
14:19
Oh yeah, maybe a subtle hint that she may return at some
14:24
point. And it's the the Red Spear Suit
14:27
as well. Yes, oh of.
14:28
Course it is from our previously.
14:30
So, Jody, funny to get the chance to wear it.
14:33
Yes. Yeah.
14:35
So what's the point of all this then?
14:36
Is it literally just to give her a really fun action set piece at
14:41
the beginning of the story? Pretty much that's what I
14:43
thought. But of course it's all to do
14:45
with the child as well, which becomes central to to the plot.
14:50
The Quarans. Yes.
14:53
The Quaran police is called. Yeah.
14:55
And of course, it all lead, yeah, leading to Dan leaving as
15:00
well. Dan seen Goodbye.
15:04
Evil Dan. Yeah, I love Dan.
15:07
Do you know? I absolutely love him in a
15:09
minute. Where he goes, Hello, this is
15:11
driver Dan speaking. There's something very sort of
15:17
personable by him, isn't there? And they're all, look, they're
15:21
all grinning in the middle of this action sequence, and
15:24
they're having a great time. I really liked.
15:28
The Well, it's all fun and games until someone gets shot in the
15:31
nose. Yes, wow.
15:33
I remember people were speculating that Dan was going
15:36
to die because they released that picture of him with his
15:38
fractured visor, didn't they? Yep.
15:41
And he wasn't in the trailer. There was like all the bits of
15:45
him in the trailer were from this bit.
15:47
That's because. He didn't do anything else do.
15:52
You know, that's Joe Sims on the train there.
15:54
He's from the Big Finish, David Tennant audios.
15:59
He's fabulous in that case, yeah, apparently, he says on the
16:01
commentary chimnell. Joe Sims kept begging me, please
16:04
put me in Doctor Who, he goes no, when the right part comes
16:06
along. And then he phoned him up and
16:07
said, look, you're leaving, you've got to put me in the last
16:10
one. And here he is.
16:12
Did you look at? This, did you see that the the,
16:14
the camera came out the window, travelled up the train to the
16:19
cycling, walking across to attack.
16:21
I mean, when did we ever think that Doctor Who would command
16:23
visuals like that? The whole sort of like.
16:28
Vortex tonalness of of what the train's going through was
16:32
fantastic as well. And I've got to say, you know,
16:35
I've never, ever noticed the difference between watching a
16:38
Blu-ray and watching the BBC iPlayer more than when I watch
16:42
this one. Because on the blue red it has a
16:45
real It's really I'm. Getting that vibe now.
16:48
This is the first time I've watched it on the iPlayer and
16:51
it's yeah. I'm on the iPad.
16:53
I'm just on the iPad. Yeah, I'm.
16:55
I did watch it on the on the main screen.
16:59
And you really can tell the the HD Ness of it.
17:01
She's fabulous. In that space suit.
17:07
This whole section on the train was supposed to be the Christmas
17:11
special. Oh, right.
17:14
OK. In the fantastic interview
17:18
Christian did with Who Corner to Corner podcast, which which I've
17:22
been on and you've been on as well, haven't you Joe?
17:23
I've just recently been on yes. Yes.
17:27
Yes, it was incredible fun. They were very naughty.
17:33
Yeah, Chris Treblon does does an interview with those guys, split
17:36
over 2 parts. In the second part he's he's
17:39
talking all about like flux and sort of like the second-half of
17:42
his his era. And he says, you know the
17:45
planned, you know the biggest Christmas special ever it was
17:49
going to be, you know, it was going to be massive, it was
17:52
going to be epic. You know, he.
17:56
I had to cancel it basically because they didn't have the
17:58
money. And you know, so he pitched
18:01
this, this wonderful epic. He had the the director on
18:04
board, I forget the lady's name, sorry.
18:06
And you know, sold her on this. And these producers turned
18:09
around and said yes, sorry, Chris, we haven't got the money
18:10
for that and we're just going to have to say no and get pulled.
18:15
So he went away and, you know, sat at home, thought, well, what
18:20
can I do with on the cheap then? You know, what can I do in court
18:25
times of COVID? One set, same set of characters,
18:29
hashtag time. Even the Daleks came from there.
18:33
But what was leftover? One of the bits that was
18:34
leftover was this idea of the train going through space.
18:39
And I don't know if it's going to be the climax, but you know,
18:42
the idea of the train going through space and the Doctor and
18:44
Dan and Yas jumping down onto the train and then, you know,
18:49
saving the day. So that was this is like a
18:50
leftover from from that. Two things.
18:53
I mean. One, even the Daleks is fucking
18:55
magnificent. I think it's an amazingly good
18:57
episode. So the fact, oh wow, you go that
19:02
far Absolute. Favorite of the Jodi era?
19:04
It is stunningly good, yeah. But also like, they're obviously
19:09
throwing money at this because this is the Centenary special.
19:12
So I don't think money was even an issue always.
19:15
It certainly doesn't look like it when you watch it, no.
19:18
I I love these titles and I'm going to going to stick my hand
19:23
up and say this is the best theme arrangement of the new
19:27
series and this is the best theme arrangement since Peter
19:30
Howe and I'm Brooking. No dispute on this.
19:33
This is the best there's ever been.
19:37
Can you imagine my horror when I saw the words Janet Fielding and
19:41
Sophie Aldred turn up on the tiles there?
19:45
I screamed. Can I tell you a?
19:48
Funny story, because obviously Mark found that script for Power
19:52
of the Dog. Yes, when it was feeling.
19:53
That you told. Us.
19:54
Yes, later. And when he told me you'll never
19:56
guess who's in it, Ace and Teague and I went, oh, come on,
20:00
they're not having that pair back.
20:01
They've they've left a dummy script in your place.
20:04
And then when the trailer came out for this at the end of
20:07
Legend of the Sea Devils, he's like I told you.
20:12
Oh, Sasha, Dawn. Well, Fraser, you're going to
20:18
say something then? Yeah, I was.
20:19
I was just going to argue with Simon.
20:20
I'm going to say Kevin McCulloch, not Peter Howell.
20:23
Or Other than that, I agree. With you, Yeah, but that's only
20:25
for nostalgia for you. Yes.
20:27
Wait Wait Wait wait wait. Wait for you as well, for
20:31
exactly the same reason. Who's this?
20:34
Who's. This, my God, it's my also my
20:37
favorite actress. Sophie.
20:38
Audrey. She's back.
20:43
I'm absolutely delighted they gave her the chance to come
20:47
back. I'm really, really pleased for
20:50
her because she's been so good. Oh.
20:53
For sure, but. Loving the show and always being
20:57
there and always doing whatever she's asked, you know?
21:01
And she's one of the best people to ever be involved with the
21:05
show. She's absolute delight every
21:07
time you meet her. And it's like the the trio,
21:09
wasn't it? As when we're talking about
21:11
ambassadors for the show, it's Sophie Aldridge, Colin Baker,
21:14
Nicholas Courtney. I think they were like, they're
21:16
they're the three, aren't they? Yeah.
21:19
And I'm really, I'm just happy to.
21:25
Jesus Christ, look, always she's looking at this phone like an
21:28
old woman. She's an old woman.
21:31
I know. Oh.
21:34
Excuse me? And get, you know, now look.
21:37
Here. No, excuse me.
21:40
I think she's one of the best things in this, all right.
21:43
I think finally she's been written with a sense of bloody
21:45
humour and then she's actually having a bit of fun in the role.
21:49
And you start with. Me, for me, even more than
21:55
Sophie coming back. Tegan coming back was
22:00
unexpected, something I I never thought we'd see Tegan on TV
22:06
ever. And she was one of my first
22:08
companion, one of my first companions.
22:10
And she was there for a long time in my childhood.
22:13
She was there for three and a bit years, you know, and when
22:16
you're. When you're young, that means
22:18
basically they're there forever, you know, and.
22:22
Well, she was, wasn't she? Yeah, I mean, she's one of the
22:25
longest running companions there there's been, you know, and I've
22:31
she'd earned her. Learned her her right to be
22:34
here, I think. But I understand what you're
22:35
saying, because Janet Fielding totally pushed away from the
22:38
show for a bit when she she moved her career in another
22:40
direction, and I don't hold that against her at all.
22:43
Like, too right Distance yourself from the acting if you
22:45
want to be an agent. Sophie, Audrey, on the other
22:48
hand, ever since she left the show, whether she's in the
22:51
comics, the New Adventures, Big Finish stories, I feel like
22:54
she's never ever not been in Doctor Who since she appeared on
22:57
it. So that was less of a surprise,
23:00
even though it was still a bit of a surprise.
23:03
But yeah, I mean, if you're going to pick two 80s companions
23:06
to bring back, these are probably the two.
23:10
And then Russell was brought back.
23:12
The third one who deserves, absolutely deserves her moment
23:17
in the sun, the body language revolution.
23:21
Yeah, but she wasn't well served by the show, so you're you're
23:24
righting a wrong there. Whereas here you're celebrating
23:27
something that is brilliant that the regular audience of Maya he
23:31
will remember. Who are all the parents watching
23:34
with their kids? So where does the the person
23:37
that's a little bit conspicuous in their absence in this episode
23:40
then fit in, which is Nicola Bryant?
23:44
Yeah, she got. Pissed.
23:47
But is. But this is the problem with
23:49
Nicola Bryant's departure, isn't it?
23:51
Because it's so muddled and such a mess.
23:55
Is she dead? Is she not?
23:56
Is she? You know, he got so many hoops.
24:00
Matter. Well, it doesn't, but it does.
24:03
It's the same with Mel. Mel Leaves on Ice World, but
24:06
then she pops back up in Graham's church hall.
24:12
But it doesn't matter because. You just they'll cover it with a
24:14
lion, I reckon, Yeah. Of course.
24:16
But this is, this is coming back to subtle.
24:19
This is what Chris Chibnall does and he does it throughout this
24:21
episode and does it really well. And skipping ahead a little bit
24:25
to Guardians of the Edge, you know, In fact.
24:29
Yeah. So you know, you've got the
24:31
doctors, you've got the old doctors, doctors as they are
24:34
now. No attempt to make them look any
24:36
younger or anything like that. It's just.
24:38
Is what it is. There's no line, there's no
24:40
attempt to explain why they look like that, why the 1st Doctor
24:44
now looks like him off of Game of Thrones.
24:46
It is just what it is, and it's left to your own devices.
24:50
You can figure that out. Work that out yourself if you
24:53
want. And it does exactly the same
24:54
with Mel. So you know, you kind of wonder,
24:58
you know, poor Perry, there's any you can do anything.
25:02
You know, because it is so muddled and because it's a
25:04
science fiction show, you don't have to.
25:06
But then makes sense, you can just.
25:08
Under that, yeah, under that. Then why wasn't every companion
25:12
that we've ever seen back at the end?
25:14
Sorry, there's enough going on this already.
25:16
We don't need the rest of them as well.
25:18
Exactly. And we've missed.
25:19
We've completely missed Dan's goodbye here.
25:22
I wanted to ask you both about that.
25:24
But I'm just going to come back to what what we're seeing there,
25:26
OK, go on. The reason probably is because
25:29
obviously you've got four doctors.
25:31
Really. You've got Peter Davis and the
25:33
5th Doctor you've got. Colin Baker, You've got
25:38
Sylvester McCoy and you've got Paul, Megan.
25:40
Now you could possibly bring Grace back for the Earth Doctor
25:45
in some way, shape or form. Yes, please.
25:48
You've got Tegan for the 5th and you've got Ace for the 7th
25:52
Doctor, so if you bring Nicola Brighton back in this episode
25:56
and give her a part, you're starting to get a bit too much.
26:00
Yeah, I think. Maybe she didn't want to do it.
26:02
Maybe. Maybe she was approached and she
26:04
didn't want to do it. Right.
26:05
Possibly. I don't know what third strand
26:08
there would have been for her to do as well, you know.
26:12
And Jesus Christ, we stopped enough to have the two goodbyes
26:15
with McCoy and Aldred and Davison and Fielding, and
26:18
they're great moments. But the action does stop for us
26:21
to have those moments. We can't keep doing that every
26:24
other scene with all these companions.
26:27
What's wrong with an understated departure?
26:31
Nothing. Nothing.
26:32
But why do people have this bad issue with Graham, Ryan and Dan?
26:36
Or just decided to go? Because the departures elsewhere
26:42
in the new series have been so big and over the top and
26:46
oversold. Overwrought you is the word
26:49
you're looking. For overwrought, yes, that that
26:50
would be a good way of describing it.
26:52
You know and. And so sometimes you've got to
26:54
push back against that, you know, and this is, it's like a
26:57
classic series departure of someone just deciding, do you
27:00
know what, I'm back home. I've had enough.
27:02
And this is because it's part, it's a celebration of the
27:05
classic series. This absolutely fits. 10 points
27:08
to Gryffindor. You've totally got it right.
27:10
There it is. And Dan's departure is the
27:13
Classic departure, isn't it? It's just out of nowhere.
27:17
It's not telegraphed. It's not same posted.
27:19
It is just literally. Oh well, I'm saying bye doctor.
27:21
OK. Bye.
27:22
And that's it. There's no choirs, there's no
27:25
tears, there's no speeches or anything.
27:28
It's just it's just a little line.
27:31
A moment of a moment of foreshadowing when Yaz says she
27:35
doesn't do goodbyes and so that's setting you up for later.
27:40
And I've only noticed that because the subtitles flashed up
27:43
this evening and I've not picked that up before.
27:46
But that's absolutely telegraphing and what's coming
27:49
at the end. Although, although I I don't
27:54
like the inference that those overall departures are a bad
27:57
thing, because I think some of them are stunning moments and I
28:00
think they they captured the public imagination in a way that
28:05
these understated endings didn't.
28:07
So I don't think we can write them off.
28:09
Go on. But it goes back to subtle.
28:11
This is Chris Chibnall's approach.
28:13
It depends on whether you like subtle or you like overall, and
28:16
I think there's a taste for both.
28:18
Absolutely. There's a taste for everything,
28:19
but you know. It's I think sometimes you've
28:25
got to make that switch between Rusty and Moffett into Chibnall.
28:32
It's like when you come off a motorway, you've been driving 3
28:35
hours at 70 miles an hour and you've got to force yourself to
28:37
slow down to 30. You know, you've kind of got to
28:41
tune yourself in a little bit to what Chris Chibnall is actually
28:43
doing if you go into watching his episodes expecting
28:48
everything you've had from Moffett and.
28:51
RTD who are essentially got very similar ideas of what Doctor Who
28:55
is, what the character is, what the show should look like, you
28:58
know, the different writers and as much as one's a comedy writer
29:00
and one's a drama writer, but other than that, you know,
29:02
they're very much, you know, two cheeks are the same ass really.
29:05
So going into Chibnall's era, where things are a lot more
29:09
subtle and different, it can be a bit of a a bit of a culture
29:14
shock I think. And it's the same with the
29:17
music, isn't it? And it's the second that
29:19
suddenly it's a sea chain every time the Mars kicking it out of
29:24
screen. And it's doing that.
29:27
I'm like, oh God, sorry, terrible.
29:29
It's going to happen. Yeah, do.
29:31
You know when Jeff Goddard did the first version of the
29:34
commentary of this for me and we were looking at these scenes set
29:36
on the this Cyber Planet Cyber Trainer.
29:40
Thank you. That's Transformers.
29:42
Yep. He like, look at those visuals.
29:46
I mean that is that we throw out the word cinematic a lot when we
29:49
talk about Doctor, when a lot of it actually isn't.
29:52
That genuinely would not be out of place on a screen in a movie.
29:57
No, And it's it's something of a shame that this episode didn't
30:01
get a cinema released because it.
30:04
Really. It would have looked amazing and
30:07
it does look amazing. And again, this is something.
30:12
Of the chipnut era, that Doctor Who took such a massive leap
30:19
forward with the visual sides of Doctor Who that it it doesn't
30:25
get enough credit for for the beauty of the pictures that
30:30
you're seeing. I mean, look at this.
30:32
Look the Masters TARDIS. This is so Lagopolis.
30:35
This isn't it. It's absolutely is, yeah.
30:37
It's a TARDIS disguise. There's a police box.
30:41
There's so many kisses to the passes.
30:43
I mean, we've already. Timing the Ronnies.
30:45
Oh, Mark the Ronnie. It's time.
30:47
It's timing the Ronnie colouring.
30:49
Yeah, exactly. It's the Ronnie.
30:51
It's the Turtles and the Blues. It's it's that exactly what
30:54
happens in the 80s, where it is the TARDIS, but it's dressed
30:57
differently to make it the Masters.
30:59
What happens? Yeah.
31:01
And you look at this, he's deliberately made that quarks a
31:04
child. So we think that somehow is
31:06
going to be tied into the timeless trash child.
31:09
And it's not. No.
31:10
None of it. Is.
31:11
And it's like when it's like what he did with the watch in
31:13
it. Oh yeah, she's going to get.
31:14
Everyone can get back really, really cross because it's not
31:17
what they think it is. Rather than I love it.
31:20
Excited about what it really, really is, people.
31:23
It's great, Yeah. This is it.
31:24
It doesn't matter, you know, if this was Moffett.
31:29
You know it would be explained, wouldn't it?
31:30
It would all be explained. You'd have it spelled out, yes.
31:33
It looked inorious detail, yeah. Exactly.
31:36
Exactly beautiful. Look at it with the. 10s and the
31:39
colours it's. Great with me on a Muppet
31:41
Criticism. Good green.
31:44
How would it do when your criticism depending on which
31:46
angle you look? But we're already, we've got so
31:50
many strands that yeah, so is it great in the space of the well?
31:54
Because always, the Doctor's adventures are always like,
31:56
right, this adventure that's ended right, A new adventure
31:59
starts. And life don't usually work like
32:01
that, you know? No, we've got busy lives.
32:03
Usually we've got three or four things going.
32:05
On and you're coming back to your plot strand from 12 weeks
32:08
ago suddenly because you haven't dealt with it so.
32:11
So the fact that suddenly there's a master plot and a plot
32:15
and a master plot. And she's like, God, there's too
32:18
much going on at once. And then she was Ah, or is it
32:20
all part of the same plan? And of course.
32:22
That's brilliant, yeah. Because it all feels like it's
32:26
all stuff that's happening. But to actually stitch that
32:30
together and make it into something, Me.
32:32
Did you see that transition of going through the doors there
32:36
into the TARDIS from the location?
32:37
Shut the TARDIS doors though, before they took off.
32:41
There's a four shield. Did you boys watch the Season 8
32:46
Blu-ray special feature Behind the Sofas featuring Sasha Tawan
32:50
and Angeli Mahindra? Where Sasha Tawan was astonished
32:54
at how still and menacing Roger Delgado was watching him.
33:00
I think he's suddenly a lesson address one of your criticisms
33:04
are in the past being a bit manic and crazy, and he does get
33:07
moments of that in here, but that be a minute ago where he
33:10
played Rasputin. And he was really still and
33:14
quiet and and and working just with his eyes.
33:17
It, well, it reminded me very much of Roger Delgado.
33:20
I'm surprised we talked over the top of that because I thought
33:22
you would definitely have something to say about Sasha
33:24
Devan's eyes and that's you. I say nothing.
33:27
Yeah, you wait till till he's wearing the McCoy jumper.
33:30
He's sexy tail. In that scene when he's playing
33:33
Rasputin, he's got blue eyes. He has.
33:36
When he's not, you know, hypnotizing and it's you can't
33:39
tell whether it's. It's just the lighting or
33:41
whether it's like lenses, conduct lenses or like a CGI
33:46
effect. And I suspect it's the lighting
33:48
to be honest. I think it's just the way he's
33:50
faces, he's. Oh, look when Wells collides.
33:53
I'm I'm just having a moment with the Doctor and Tegan and
33:57
Ace, and of course Tegan's brilliantly grumpy the whole
34:01
way. Through we discussed this, Tegan
34:05
says. They were eight years they were
34:08
planning on earth being a tow little bitch.
34:10
Sounds like Tegan. You behave yourself all right.
34:14
It's Tegan, isn't it? What else did you do?
34:17
The worst thing he could have done was bring her back and make
34:19
her away. Amiable and lovely.
34:21
No, Tegan was always a grumpy bitch.
34:23
And she still is. She still is.
34:26
Look at her face. The look on Jodie's face when
34:31
she clocks them for the first time is wonderful because it's
34:34
absolute shock she's not. Not expecting that at all.
34:39
It's really nicely played. I think my one, my only
34:43
disappointment with Josie, with Tegan and Aces, they don't
34:46
really get a a quiet character moment like you got with Matt
34:51
Smith and Joe Grant in the Sarah Jane Story.
34:54
They don't have a moment like that, and that's because there's
34:56
too much going on and Jody needs.
34:58
That moment. With Mandy.
34:59
They get that moment with their own and that's absolutely fine.
35:04
Much. Better.
35:06
Yes, we'll see. Oh, look at him as the
35:07
professor. Oh my God, I am.
35:10
It's my for our old workplace. The gate here on the screen, oh,
35:15
we were so excited, he said. Sasha Dewar was lovely.
35:17
He came in past for his lunch break and we said hello.
35:22
Smart work. He works at Vesuvius.
35:25
Blame me, that's a trick. He came a long way to be with
35:29
me. All right, Look at me.
35:31
Of course he did. So actually, it's very funny,
35:35
because if you wait when they enter that room, in a minute,
35:37
yeah, where all the seismology thing is going on and all Mark
35:41
can say every time he watches it is.
35:43
I knew I should have taken that blue tack down off the wall and
35:45
look at it. It's immortalized in Doctor Who
35:48
now. Well, there we go.
35:50
Mark has made a positive impact on Doctor Who in a way most of
35:55
the rest of us don't get to do. He did.
35:58
He found those little master figures, you know, they're
36:01
little people. And he phoned me up and it's
36:03
like, Oh my God, it's the master.
36:05
I went, oh, please, they could just be dollies they've got.
36:09
I didn't believe a word of it. I stand corrected.
36:11
There he works in Naples. There we go.
36:14
But I love the fact that he's still delivering the lecture
36:19
because he's evil. It's wonderful.
36:21
He is so good, that little wave. I'm not just saying like
36:25
hyperbole, as I usually do when I say that this is my favorite
36:30
ever master performance. Like every single scene he is
36:33
in, I cannot take my eyes off him.
36:36
And it's not because he's pretty.
36:38
No, and he is pretty. He is.
36:41
Magnificently good. Yeah, and I think he's right up
36:47
there for me with Ainley as my my favorite Masters.
36:52
And so then go. I'm really incredibly unpopular
36:54
with everyone, but those are my masters.
36:58
What? And there's perfectly valid
36:59
choices, yeah. Yeah, I mean, has anyone ever
37:02
done a bad master, though? No, no.
37:06
Well, I mean, it's that's subjective, isn't it?
37:08
But I don't think so. Yeah, because everyone says, oh
37:11
who's your favorite master? And you go much of Delgado
37:13
because he was the 1st and obviously the best.
37:15
But after that you then like, well OK, you know, I like the
37:19
rest of them pretty much all the same.
37:21
It's not like. It's not like doctors where I
37:23
could possibly put pick one or two or three or four of that,
37:27
you know, and then just go over. Here I'm Wandia Fraser.
37:30
I'm not as inform as I look. I do remember.
37:37
Though I think I might have said this the first time around, when
37:39
I did the commentary, I do remember reading because he had
37:42
this, obviously the script for this scene because this is what
37:44
they were filming at his workplace and reading the
37:46
dialogue and going Jesus, because when Jodie comes in it's
37:48
just to deliver. Sorry, Fraser, a ton of
37:51
exposition. Oh, you've got a cyber planet
37:53
and aquariums and and she's saying, and I thought, how is
37:56
she ever going to deliver that? Like, and she comes in and man,
38:00
she's got it. Now she comes in and she's just
38:02
full of confidence and she makes that line sound like it's
38:05
fucking Shakespeare. I love the way.
38:07
She comes in. Go on, Fraser.
38:10
Go on. No.
38:11
No, I like the way she. Always plays her scenes with
38:16
Sasha Dewan in the same way Tom plays his scenes with Anthony
38:19
Aynley in Lacopoulos. That he is absolutely furious.
38:25
The Doctor is furious that the Master is here and doing this,
38:29
and she's disgusted. And she's.
38:32
Been here. None of it.
38:34
Where she is at her darkest, isn't it?
38:37
Yeah. She comes across more fed up
38:40
with me. It's like honestly, right?
38:43
We go through all this again. I've got Cybermen, I've got a
38:46
planet back in 1916 and I'm having to come here and deal
38:49
with you and your shit. Why?
38:52
It's it's like telling off a naughty child.
38:55
Because he's dangerous when he says, when she says to Yang,
38:58
yeah, oh for God's sake, I'll start that again.
38:59
When she says to yaz take the gun.
39:03
I was like, oh God, this is serious.
39:05
Yeah, that's when I started thinking, Oh my, because Yaz
39:09
with the gun was in the trailer, wasn't it?
39:12
Yep. I was thinking, oh, she's got to
39:14
kill somebody. Somebody's going to kill her.
39:16
Something terrible is going to happen.
39:17
Well, there was. There was room.
39:19
I wasn't. There was like a fan theory that
39:21
Yas was going to turn evil and. Oh, she's going to be the
39:24
masters companion for a while. I like that.
39:28
Series in the second series? Yeah, that would have been far.
39:30
Back. Interesting.
39:31
Yeah, but. By fall he brainwashed her and.
39:34
Just because she gave him one look in spiteful part One.
39:39
Stuttle fans can take a tiny crumb and make a whole cake out
39:44
of it. Oh.
39:45
Absolutely. I I remember thinking David
39:47
Tennant was going to turn evil in Utopia because there was a
39:49
shot in the trailer of him in Red where he looked quite evil.
39:53
And we're going to get an evil Doctor, obviously.
39:56
Obviously. We didn't.
39:58
Well, are they shooting this TARDIS now as well?
40:00
I mean, it looks gorgeous. Finally.
40:04
I was actually there in that TARDIS this weekend.
40:07
We saw. At the Eastbourne Amazing.
40:10
Convention where they had the special effects wall in and the
40:13
camera's zooming around me and I'm trying not to laugh.
40:16
And it was Jodi's chart TARDIS that I chose just because I knew
40:18
it would annoy certain people online when I posted the clip.
40:21
Oh look, it's been done. I wouldn't like to have seen
40:26
Carl, Vanessa, actually. Yes.
40:28
Yeah, I have a nail, but. Again, there was.
40:34
There was thought this was supposed to be Captain Jack,
40:36
wasn't there? Yes, I've heard that rumour.
40:38
Yeah, I wonder why I didn't use him.
40:42
I can't keep it in his pants. And because what's his face?
40:49
Who plays Binder? He's also a very, very gorgeous
40:52
man and had earned his place after Flux.
40:58
Well, I think the whole purpose of Vinda being in this is for
41:01
the scene later where somebody has to shoot the master.
41:04
So the master realises that he has got to get back in that box
41:08
or he's going to be killed because Yas weren't going to do
41:10
it, you know, And Jack would. Jack would have done that as
41:15
well. He would have felt that,
41:16
exactly. You need that extra person for
41:19
that, that part of the plot. And it's nice that it's someone
41:22
we've seen already. And we know why is.
41:25
It just. And I said he had more to do.
41:28
Yes, I think you know, if it was Jack, you'd be left going.
41:31
Well, why have you not? Why have you put the Captain
41:34
Jack on Cybertron and just left him there till the very end?
41:38
Oh, I love this scene. Your dad was a great big booby
41:42
head. Put your Auntie Vanessa in a
41:47
doll's house. It's like all of those.
41:49
Years of history in one scene, isn't it?
41:51
And then what is it you said about survival?
41:54
Oh, I was experimenting. I was going for a face.
41:59
Look at Sophie Aldridge's face, man.
42:01
She wants to score his face off. Can I drop my shocking thing
42:06
now? About this episode that I
42:08
realised on the reviewing yesterday.
42:11
I just think Sophie Eldridge is one of the best things in this.
42:14
I think she gives a stunning good performance in this.
42:19
And she's not always given the easiest things to say and do,
42:23
but but she pulls it off. Yeah, and it it hearkens back to
42:27
what I've always said, which was she was a massive breath of
42:30
fresh air when she came in at the tail end of the TV series.
42:33
And yeah, I don't like her acting on audio.
42:35
I think it is very different to act on audio than it is to act
42:38
on TVI. Don't think she's suited to it
42:41
at all. On television.
42:42
She has a naturalism, she has a charm and she has an energy
42:46
about her that I just love watching.
42:48
And she's allowed to play aces older, which is finally.
42:53
Yeah, no older, but she still gets the jacket.
42:55
On the night. Yeah, exactly.
42:57
And she's still going to. Yeah, she's still going to
42:58
parachute off the building because she's Kate.
43:01
Stewart say, Oh, it's very 80s, yes.
43:04
And she goes, oh thank you. And I'm going to say a word for
43:08
Kate Stewart here. She is not sapping the energy of
43:11
every scene. What's going on?
43:13
I mean, at one point she displays an emotion.
43:16
She does and. Almost as if you don't see much
43:19
much emotion. She's definitely subtle, but not
43:25
necessarily in the greatest ways.
43:27
But she's she's OK here. Yeah, it's almost as if he's at
43:30
all been just talking shite about the other entire time and.
43:34
Now I have endured 500 unit box sets where she literally
43:39
delivers every line in a flat monotone.
43:42
And it it. I've only listened to the one
43:44
which was once in future and once in future.
43:48
Once in future. I enjoyed that one.
43:50
This year really was Brian. I felt my eyes drooping.
44:00
She had some really good lines. Well, Valentine wrote a really
44:03
willing to give us some like really really good lines.
44:06
Genius. That's why.
44:07
But it kind of like leans into, you know, the way that she is
44:11
delivering her performances quite, you know.
44:14
Sarcastic, you know, So she's got like a dry wit and Rob
44:18
really brought that out with some of our some lanes that she
44:22
was given. Once the future may have shown
44:24
some promise in that first story written by Rob Valentine.
44:28
Yes. Utterly squandered since, but I
44:31
just like to say a nice, lovely welcome back to the caves from
44:36
the pirate planet. Is it?
44:39
It is, Yep, looking a bit warmer than it is, as do.
44:43
You know what, right. You know how they're juggling up
44:45
all these plots and there's lots going on.
44:47
Yeah, yeah, it's very Moffett in that respect, isn't it?
44:49
We're sort of jumping from thing to thing, lots of plots and
44:52
things. This Dalek who's wants to be
44:54
good, I feel like he he had an episode in him.
44:58
Yeah, Rusty. Yeah.
45:00
No, not Rusty. That was boring.
45:02
But this darling, he had an. He had an.
45:04
Episode in him. If you.
45:05
Just call it RTD. Boring.
45:07
No, Rusty, The Dalek. That was Muffet.
45:12
Hang on, who's who's? He's trying to be clever.
45:15
Who's. Who's called an RTD bar?
45:17
And then Muffet. Look, it's a great big Darling
45:22
drill. God, I feel like we're watching
45:24
2150 AD all over. Again, and it's like the comic
45:28
strips come to life where they've got these great big
45:31
technological things that they're doing stuff too, and
45:34
it's a small party of Daleks doing some mining.
45:37
It's brilliant. You're going to see some comic
45:39
strips coming to life soon, so I well, I certainly AM and I'm
45:42
very, very excited about that. Do you?
45:44
Remember Roger? I said.
45:45
I had a massive hard on for the action when these side men come
45:49
pouring out of our shot. And hello Rashad, the best side
45:52
man ever. I mean, this is so exciting.
45:55
In a minute. I mean what we wanted when we
45:58
were kids. Cybermen attacking unit, you
46:01
know and converting everybody amazing.
46:03
So to get excited. It's that classic thing though,
46:08
isn't it? Because you know the Master has
46:09
been captured and he's quite happy to be captured.
46:11
So it's that, yeah. So you're, you know, something
46:13
is up. Yeah, the straight away the bad
46:16
guy is exactly where the bad guy wants to be.
46:18
It's like low key in the first event and it's like he's
46:21
actually planned this to the NTH degree and knows exactly how
46:25
this is all going. Phone to fit together.
46:28
The master in prison, you know, reminds me of the Sea Devils.
46:30
See more kisses to the past. Oh, now look, Ashad doesn't get
46:35
a lot to do, but he just looks so scary.
46:37
Who cares? He's amazing.
46:38
Exactly. Oh, and this theme where it
46:43
goes. Sorry.
46:44
I'll do the music a little bit there.
46:46
Thank you. Wouldn't be right otherwise.
46:49
I'm Ashad is is brilliant and it's an unexpected return.
46:54
Ice and Tegan with machine guns. I mean gold bullets.
47:00
It's all we ever wanted from The Who.
47:05
And Tegan's come on a bit from her shock, you know, with a gun.
47:08
Oh, she was always a yeah, always good with a gun.
47:12
Oh, this is so great. Running out the stairs, side men
47:15
pouring out everywhere. It's yeah, and it's a great
47:18
location with the with the sort of spiral stairs and everything
47:21
else, it looks really exciting. I imagine that's just offices
47:25
somewhere in Commonly, yeah, it's.
47:27
Where they're like Q is just an office now.
47:29
It's not like a military base. It's an office.
47:31
Nobody can work here today. Why?
47:33
Because the side men are going to invade.
47:36
To be honest, you have only just come back so you know.
47:39
Again, though, watch how adeptly he shows the geography of the
47:43
building. The director, we went, we came
47:45
down the stairs, we're following him down the corner.
47:48
It's almost like 1 fluid camera movement.
47:51
It's levels and you're moving up and down and like on the train
47:55
you're moving across and it's constantly moving.
47:59
Of course, the Agent of Chaos, the Master, was behind all of
48:02
this. Of course he was.
48:06
Oh, it's all going on now, guys. Oh, they're having a bit of
48:11
trouble. You see the dying.
48:12
Track. Coming along those caves there,
48:15
they're in a bit of trouble. That reminds me of Remembrance
48:17
of the Daleks when they had some trouble on the cobbles.
48:20
Well, but then you're taking Daleks into caves.
48:23
I mean that's that's. Never going to end well, that's.
48:27
Amazing. I mean, it looks wonderful.
48:30
You've got that river of lava there.
48:33
That reminds me of Inferno, you know?
48:35
Yeah, I'm. Going to keep doing this, you
48:37
know. Usually it is beautiful.
48:40
Oh, she gets put inside that darling that reminds me of,
48:44
which is familiar. But also it's the Weeping Angel.
48:50
Yeah. Sort of called back to to
48:52
Village of the Angels, isn't it? And.
48:56
Oh, she's doing. I mean, whoever fought after
48:58
series 11 where we said, oh fuck, continuity we were going
49:01
to get with this amazing stuff of continuity coming up.
49:07
Oh, and can we please have a word for Mandate Gill, who from
49:11
this point on basically owns the next 10 minutes of this episode?
49:15
Yep. Even if she does have to get a
49:18
post it notes out to own it, she does fine.
49:21
She does what she's doing. No, that reminds me of
49:24
Revolution of the Daleks. And, you know, I was sort of
49:32
sort of trying to see later on when all the plots were sort of
49:34
converging, they were trying to tie them all up, whether it all
49:36
made sense. As far as I could tell, it did.
49:38
It did tick off every box, yeah. It does.
49:42
Oh, no, it's beautiful. Please.
49:43
Here we go. Fraser.
49:45
Gregory, tell me what you think about this Rasputin, the scene.
49:48
Well, it's just divine, the masters darling clan.
49:56
Masters, Darling Clan. Because it's all the jokes we've
49:59
made. Is that a set or is that a
50:01
location? Because it looks stunning with
50:03
that huge chandelier about. I'm guessing it's a location,
50:07
but I don't know for sure because I don't know because so
50:10
much is secret about the making of Doctor Who in this era that I
50:14
don't know the facts. So, wittingly, I'm sorry, we're
50:20
going to need your house today. Why?
50:21
Because we're bringing in Cybermen, Daleks and the masks
50:24
and Rasputin. Go ahead, opine.
50:28
You know, I love the bit where the Cybermen and the Dalek look
50:33
at each other. I know.
50:35
It's crazy, although that does remind me of Daleks in Manhattan
50:41
and Evolution of the Daleks when those two Daleks are gossiping
50:43
down in the Suez. And it's amazing because Sasha
50:48
to 1 looks exactly the spit of Tom Baker in Nicholas and
50:53
Alexandra where he played Rasputin.
50:57
And the the way he is dressed is is exactly the same.
51:01
It's and that could be a call back as well, you know so.
51:05
What do you guys think about right now?
51:07
Jenny Whitaker for 10 minutes and giving Sasha to one like his
51:11
10 minutes. She's not written out.
51:13
That's the thing everyone says she's written out.
51:16
But she's doing the stuff in with the Guardians of the Edge
51:21
at that time and she's working out.
51:23
We wait a bit, though. We do wait a bit for that, but
51:26
you have you've got to show the Doctor is in danger at this
51:29
point and you've got to sell the idea that the Doctor is gone for
51:32
a little while. So I have no problem with that
51:35
at all. I think Shivers is savvy though,
51:38
isn't he? Because he basically he gives
51:41
Sasha to 1 great moments, he goes off to that planet where
51:43
there's a war and things like that, and we're like, oh, we
51:46
much prefer being with the Master.
51:47
And then we go back to Jodie and it's all those classic.
51:50
Doctors and we're like, oh fuck the master, This is great.
51:55
So I've got a question for you then, no.
51:58
Yes. Obviously we've got the Doctor
52:01
tied up by the Master as the Master explains his plan to her.
52:06
And we think this is a really good scene, yeah.
52:09
Well, it's very brief. It's not 15 minutes long like it
52:12
was in The Timeless Children. Plus it has Daleks inside men
52:15
looking at each other as scants. I was going to say if if the
52:19
Masters PowerPoint in Timeless Children was set to disco music,
52:22
would that make it better for you Joe?
52:24
No, if it was 30 seconds long it would make it better for me.
52:29
Don't you try and get clever with me, Fraser.
52:31
Gregory. All right.
52:33
Which which disco classic would you like that scene set though?
52:36
Well, that'll be a long one. It's 15 minutes long.
52:39
I feel loved by Donna Summer. Yeah, we'll go for.
52:42
That's 9 minutes. Well, American Pie, it's about 6
52:45
minutes long. I'll buy some of that.
52:47
That's not a disco classic. Though I love borium.
52:51
Pie. Yeah, I loved Bony M as a child,
52:54
so. It's the must have been a done
52:55
store like he is now. I played Rasputin at my 40th
53:00
birthday party. It was on my playlist.
53:03
I used to dance for it on Zumba #2 on the Wii.
53:09
Did you just? Remind you of of Sound of Drums?
53:11
When he plays the disco music and it's all going crazy and
53:14
there's lots going on, does he remind you a bit of that, A bit
53:17
of that? Yeah.
53:18
No, because this is this is good.
53:21
Sound of drums. Is excellent.
53:22
What are you talking about? Oh, there's the Death Star.
53:24
There we go. This is just the way he moves.
53:28
It's Cybertron. That's what it is.
53:31
That darling couldn't look more sassy when he turns his eyes.
53:34
Stalking. Oh, this is just glorious.
53:38
It's not true. Don't get any better than this,
53:41
I'm telling you. Absolutely.
53:44
Oh dear, oh, here comes the master.
53:50
He's bits with between Mandip Gill and Sasha Tawan as well.
53:53
Really great. They they're seeing sizzle.
53:57
Yeah, well, he makes her watch as well doesn't he?
53:59
He makes her watch whilst Jodie gets turned.
54:03
And what do you think? About using all the old
54:05
costumes. You know Mccoy's pullover.
54:09
Awesome. But it's not just it's not just
54:12
classic costumes. That's what I like.
54:13
It's got like tenant's tie. Yep.
54:17
And yet, weirdly enough, she's still looks less absurd than
54:21
Colin in his coat. Behave.
54:23
It's something isn't. It that's a great quote.
54:27
We all know it's a great. Quote.
54:29
We discussed that in great depth in our recent Twin Dilemma
54:32
commentary, didn't we? Sigh.
54:33
We certainly did, yeah. Actually, I came out for it,
54:37
didn't I? In the end, you did, and I came
54:39
out very much against. Well, one of yours is right and
54:42
for once a dual. That's still a better battle
54:48
average than you, Fraser. Jesus.
54:55
I'm. Always right.
54:55
I'm just never wrong. Oh.
54:58
Jesus, he looks when they're giving him this sort of
55:01
androgynous look. Yeah, he looks sexier than he's
55:05
ever looked before. That short hair as well, Yeah,
55:08
I. Don't know.
55:10
It's because there's a there's a sort of innocence about how he
55:13
looks which and that that bit where he says hello, Jasmine
55:17
Khan. Yeah, look at him.
55:20
He looks like a Bubba. Next question then.
55:24
Snug, marry, get blasted by giant spear, squid, Rasputin,
55:30
master, doctor, master or professor, master Oh.
55:36
What was it? Was fuck an option?
55:38
Well, I'll snug this one. I mean, he's never looked
55:42
prettier than this. What do you think?
55:44
So yeah, I'm going to snuck this one.
55:46
I'm going to to marry the Professor master because that
55:52
does it for me. And just Raspucin he can.
55:58
Yeah, no, that's too much beard. I mean, I like Uncle Beard's
56:03
beard, but that's too much beard.
56:06
Joe, do you see the way he was tiptoeing towards her then, sort
56:09
of grinning psychotically as if he was about to pounce?
56:13
Oh, he's so scary. He is so good in this.
56:18
I think he's Pejoran earring as well.
56:20
I'd say do I? Yeah.
56:22
We'll call him Master Nurse. It's that.
56:27
I think it's that little tuft of chest hair at the.
56:29
Top Sorry, not phrase the size. He's doing just, he's doing very
56:40
great. He's doing fantastic work with
56:41
his eyes. Yes.
56:43
Because he's suggesting an innocence with his eyes whilst
56:45
he's saying terrible things. Yeah, that don't make me ask you
56:49
twice. Yeah, it's really.
56:52
Chilling well and a bit in a minute where he goes right up to
56:54
and goes, oh, I'm the Doctor now, as if he's about to hit
56:58
her. Yeah, it's like the start of an
57:01
abusive relationship. Oh.
57:02
Absolutely. Well, we recently did the Twin
57:04
Dilemma commentary, didn't we? Yes, we know how that goes.
57:09
Well, I came down very definitely.
57:13
Oh, look at ice now of all our gear.
57:17
Yes. Great.
57:19
So what did it mean to you to have Sophie Aldridge back in her
57:22
full regalia? Oh, well, it's what you want,
57:25
isn't it? Ultimately, you know, you're
57:27
you're bringing her back. You've got to have the jacket.
57:30
You've got to have the bat as well.
57:32
Even though the bat did. Backup broke, didn't it?
57:35
And you would? Yeah, I only lasted an episode.
57:37
Yep, I remember the. You know, the Allendale Museum
57:42
that we went to? Yeah.
57:44
When he reopened after COVID, he got Sophie Elder to come along
57:46
and she recreated, you know, the built a replica of the batter so
57:50
she could oh wow, wackily at these, darling.
57:53
We can't mention that museum enough.
57:55
That fabulous Anandale gorgeous. You should all go.
57:59
Gorgeous and the Dome? The gorgeous Never seen Simon
58:03
Hawk so happy as when he met the girl.
58:07
I think they might be married now.
58:08
You know Fraser. Well, who doesn't like a Big
58:11
Bang dog? Would you have been as exciting
58:15
had it been Nisour of Trakum that was back?
58:19
No, no. No.
58:22
Your face is there, Nisa, but it.
58:24
Was like you were both sucking on.
58:26
Tower eggs. Oh, God's sake, in a minute,
58:31
right when he goes to this this place where he's set two planets
58:35
of war. The visual shorthand of just
58:38
seeing the missiles go from one planet to another, of telling
58:42
what's going on so quickly and economically.
58:47
I just think it's incredible. I keep saying incredible.
58:51
Would would you have liked Tegan to go back into her costume?
58:56
What? That S to S costume, No.
58:59
And she won't go to wear the boob tube, was she?
59:00
I think that would be hilarious if like he's pulled out a jacket
59:04
and. But from under the floor and
59:06
taking pulled over Egg Wonders 990.
59:10
What do you imagine those bizarre red mushrooms are there
59:12
on that planet? I love it.
59:14
I don't care. It doesn't matter.
59:17
But this this bit was in the trailer, wasn't it?
59:19
In that got so many people talking Mondas.
59:21
Mondas, yeah. Fabulous throne left.
59:28
So it just shows you how much they've put into this, that it's
59:31
like, yeah, OK, so we'll just do a big massive CGI fest of
59:35
planets destroying each other in a forest of red mushrooms on an
59:40
asteroid somewhere. For the sake of you can not even
59:44
not even 3 minutes of screen time is it?
59:46
You know. It's that.
59:48
In the bit where she comes back for him.
59:49
It's that creative visual palette that Jeff loves about
59:54
this era, isn't it? Is in there because it can be.
59:58
It's the colours, isn't it? Yes.
1:00:00
Oh, and you know what I said to you about the energy of this?
1:00:03
The way it just he just sits there now playing his little
1:00:06
whistle. He plays, He plays what
1:00:09
Troughton plays. Speed Body boats.
1:00:13
The It's the the Scottish theme with a recorder like Troughton
1:00:18
plays. That reminds me of the
1:00:20
Highlanders, you know. So we've got Troughton's
1:00:23
recorder, he's got Macon. Scarf.
1:00:27
Tom Scarfe, Mccauley's jumper. Tennant's tie?
1:00:30
Jordy's Court? Is it Capaldi's trousers?
1:00:33
Do you think I? Know it's wonderful.
1:00:37
I mean, she is the Easter eggs say Oh well what is this bizarre
1:00:40
desert landscape she's found herself in?
1:00:42
Oh. Can you imagine?
1:00:43
I love that she's wearing the dark version of the.
1:00:45
Clothes, Fraser. Honestly, I was so excited when
1:00:48
I saw Colin. Who's first.
1:00:50
Oh, it's David Brady's first. Yep.
1:00:53
And it's just like, Oh my God. And I thought, Oh well, maybe
1:00:56
it's just David Bradley I wasn't expecting, which would have been
1:01:00
enough, I think. Yeah, because he's really great.
1:01:03
He's more heartly here than ever before, do you know?
1:01:07
And it's weird talking to people because to everybody, the
1:01:10
different doctors meant more, you know, to each person.
1:01:13
Colin meant the most to me because, like you know how he
1:01:15
was sacked so terribly? Yeah, And then he comes to come
1:01:19
back to the show and just. And he so championed Jodie all
1:01:25
the way through and was such a fan.
1:01:27
She said he was there on the set going, come on, she's the
1:01:30
governor, what you want us to do?
1:01:33
But Luke Malloy? When he saw Paul McGann,
1:01:36
apparently he just burst out of his seat.
1:01:38
But I love that he's in costume and he's always one that's
1:01:42
different. I had a little tear when Paul
1:01:46
McGann came. Is this his first appearance in
1:01:50
actual Doctor Who? I don't really include.
1:01:53
The CB movie wasn't really an episode, was it?
1:01:55
Wow. Amazing.
1:01:58
Oh my God, McCoy throwing shade in as well.
1:02:03
But this is what you want you you've got multiple doctors that
1:02:06
have got to bicker. Yeah, you know you've got.
1:02:10
It's quite subtle, isn't it? It's not Fancy Pants Scarecrow.
1:02:14
Yeah, it's the way it says existence is so beautiful.
1:02:21
Do you remember what we talked about?
1:02:22
Oh, sorry. God no.
1:02:23
No, I was going to say for me I had the moment with Davison,
1:02:26
which I wasn't expecting and I'll, I'll talk about this a bit
1:02:31
more in the in the other scene, but well, I.
1:02:35
Was going to say, do you remember how we've talked in the
1:02:36
past about Davison, how he can be a bit embarrassed by the more
1:02:39
melodramatic aspects of the show?
1:02:42
You know, you can see them the same cut and then you've got
1:02:44
footage afterwards. Oh God, yeah.
1:02:47
He's the only one who sits there with absolute dignity and poise.
1:02:51
Do you see the way he's holding himself?
1:02:53
He's like, yeah, I'm going to bloody well do this and make it
1:02:56
so cool. He's.
1:02:57
Really, really good. And it's the same feeling I get
1:03:00
from him in Oddly in Dimensions in Time where he is taking it
1:03:06
absolutely seriously and he is going to act his best even
1:03:10
though he's only got a few lines.
1:03:12
And he's giving it his all. And he was always my favorite in
1:03:15
Dimensions in Time and I had, yeah.
1:03:17
So there's something about his doctor that is quite comforting
1:03:21
for me. But just Jodie.
1:03:23
Our Jodie with all those classic Doctors, I mean.
1:03:26
Before we'd see it. Did we?
1:03:27
She was already the doctor from The Woman Who Fell to Earth for
1:03:31
me. But this is just like the cherry
1:03:33
on the cake. Yeah, I think she looks.
1:03:38
As well. Belongs with them, belongs with
1:03:41
all of them. She's a classic Doctor.
1:03:43
She gets to do all that funky, witty exposition now, as the
1:03:48
hologram doesn't. She yeah, you know, yeah.
1:03:50
And and that's a nice call back to all the other holograms that
1:03:54
we've seen, you know, in the flux.
1:03:58
Yeah, and obviously with Christopher Eccleston.
1:04:02
Yeah. And with Matt.
1:04:06
Is there one? With Matt Smith, there is, isn't
1:04:08
there? There is.
1:04:09
He has holographic companions and let's kill Hitler when you
1:04:15
get. To and with Capaldi as well.
1:04:16
There's a Capaldi 1, isn't there?
1:04:19
The whole thing is like a two fold attack.
1:04:21
You've got Jodi pushing the plot along in lots of different ways.
1:04:25
So she's basically putting the pieces in place, you know, Yes,
1:04:28
this is how you fly the TARDIS. This is what you got to do.
1:04:30
So she's moving the plot. Along she's but she's planned it
1:04:33
as well because that's what the she's very McCoy.
1:04:37
Isn't it Static is about. So it's like she knows something
1:04:40
is going to go go here, so she's going to imprint herself on all
1:04:45
these these people. But of course the other purpose
1:04:49
is to give Janet Fielding and Sophie Aldridge their character
1:04:54
moments and that just, that's it.
1:04:57
All the excuse you need. Yeah.
1:04:58
Yeah, because I know so many people that, and it's one or the
1:05:03
other usually, who blobs during those scenes.
1:05:06
Yeah, and of course it leads us later on to get our Joe Martin
1:05:13
cameo as well, which is is lovely and very unexpected and
1:05:18
really brilliant. But I don't think we should ever
1:05:21
underestimate how good Jodie is at this stuff, no?
1:05:24
No, exactly. And people are saying.
1:05:25
Oh well, the Doctor's not not doing anything for all for this
1:05:29
part of the story, but the Doctor constantly is constantly
1:05:31
on the screen doing things. She's just not there at that
1:05:35
moment. She has planned all of this and
1:05:37
she is in control of this situation, even though the
1:05:40
situation is out of control. She has planned for all of this.
1:05:44
So that's a strong writing of a Doctor.
1:05:47
You know what that is? What's that subtle?
1:05:52
She's. She's effectively a plot point
1:05:55
at this point, but she's a light and effervescent and enjoyable
1:05:59
to watch plot point and that just smooths it all over.
1:06:03
Oh, I was getting huge earth shock vibes in a minute when T
1:06:07
goes down and the side men are punching through the walls.
1:06:11
Yes, honestly, I'm still 12, you know?
1:06:15
Well, really? I think, and this is the thing,
1:06:17
I don't think this is what this story does.
1:06:19
It taps into something, into those things that you've always
1:06:22
wanted to see in Doctor Who. And.
1:06:25
Oh, so I she's so pissed off. I had to top it all off.
1:06:30
That's in the early 80s. She is brilliantly written.
1:06:40
Unfortunately, it's not her best line.
1:06:42
That's still to come, I think. I know which one I think it.
1:06:47
I think we might be on the same page there and Kate Stewart gets
1:06:52
to be savvier as well. She's fought all this through.
1:06:55
She's got the fences everywhere. Yeah, and she's not just walking
1:06:59
into a room full of Cyberman with an invasion style helmet
1:07:02
and said my father, Brigadier, left.
1:07:04
Prince Stewart took on the Cybermen and won.
1:07:06
When he comes to it, she's actually willing to sacrifice
1:07:08
her life. And she's.
1:07:10
And she's terrified. Yeah, yeah, that's the emotion I
1:07:13
was talking. About earlier I thought she I
1:07:15
thought she was going to die, although she even cracks a she
1:07:18
cracks a joke at the end of this.
1:07:19
She does. Oh my God, yeah.
1:07:24
Oh, look at these conversions. They look grisly.
1:07:26
They're. Horrible.
1:07:27
Why the hell do they all have sparks coming off them?
1:07:30
It's great, isn't it? I don't care.
1:07:32
It looks brilliant. Oh God.
1:07:36
I like this moment again where it's that moment of
1:07:40
vulnerability for ACE where. She's been all chat and she's
1:07:44
going to do this and now she's got to psych herself up to
1:07:47
actually actually go and do it the the direction of this when
1:07:52
she jumps and transitions into the TARDIS.
1:07:58
Superb, isn't it? This is one part I'm going to
1:08:05
shut up and just watch it. So take the take the opportunity
1:08:08
to talk. All right.
1:08:10
Well, I was going to say, I mean, if you want to transition
1:08:13
from outside to inside the TARDIS, this is it.
1:08:15
And do you know what makes it more than anything else?
1:08:19
Go on what? Stegan at Canola.
1:08:21
Oh yeah. Just burst through the doors.
1:08:26
Not enough praise for what he does.
1:08:28
Yeah, everybody is sort of full of praise for Murray Gold coming
1:08:31
back. And Murray Gold is a great
1:08:33
musician. Don't get me wrong.
1:08:35
I think my preference, I think my preference is Akanola, but I
1:08:39
don't think Akanola's subtle in in his last year.
1:08:43
But. I don't think he's been subtle
1:08:44
since by Fall, to be honest, but it's brilliant music.
1:08:48
It's just different it it works in a different way to Murray's
1:08:52
music because it's subtle, but it's not not necessarily subtle,
1:08:59
but it's. Background Layering the
1:09:03
background so you're feeling the excitement without it being
1:09:08
signposted. It's.
1:09:10
Incidental music as opposed to I wouldn't say it's incidental
1:09:14
music. I was very aware of the music in
1:09:17
this, but he's got a beautiful theme for everything.
1:09:21
The Daleks, the Cybermen, The Master, The Doctor, Yeah,
1:09:24
everybody has got a theme and it all works like gangbusters.
1:09:29
I think. You know, I can all as music is,
1:09:32
you know, it supports the scene. It's like supports the story in
1:09:36
the scene and whatnot, whereas Murray Gold can be a little bit
1:09:38
overpowering, but I don't really disagree with that.
1:09:43
I am here. I agree.
1:09:46
No, but no. Now you must cry, yeah, and I
1:09:50
think we will get a bit of that in the coming seasons.
1:09:53
We've got a lot of that to come, but I think I think he
1:09:57
underscores comedy far better than Murray Gold.
1:10:00
Murray Gold's comedy music a bit much?
1:10:02
Sometimes. OK, so here we go.
1:10:04
So this is my moment. OK, I'll be quiet for this and.
1:10:07
Seeing Peter Davis and Back in Cost and the Bloody hat.
1:10:10
I love the hat. That's my favorite Doctor Who
1:10:13
hat. And just see.
1:10:15
And him delivering lines at 1000 miles an hour in the way he does
1:10:19
and just doing it. But Tegan's reaction, and you
1:10:23
don't look quite as I remember. I think.
1:10:27
I think this is the only time the 5th Doctor and Tegan
1:10:31
expressed how they felt about each other ever I.
1:10:34
Drink. And yeah, the ad drink line got
1:10:38
me. The way delivers it is, yeah,
1:10:39
yeah, yeah, this. I think it's.
1:10:41
The way she looks absolutely crystal.
1:10:43
And the Braveheart that broke me.
1:10:45
I cried a tear. This is and I missed you.
1:10:50
Yeah, that bit isn't. Isn't Tegan in The Doctor?
1:10:53
That is Janet and Peter. Yeah, for sure.
1:10:56
That's absolutely fine. And that's fine.
1:10:58
Absolutely fine. It's beautiful.
1:10:59
But then I think the same with the Sophie and Sylvester and of
1:11:02
the Jodie, Amanda, Jodie, Amanda at the end of this is they're no
1:11:05
longer the characters. They are crying because they are
1:11:07
not working together anymore. Yeah, I think.
1:11:10
That was the 2nd moment in this episode when I cried.
1:11:13
It's the pained look on Davis's face when he realises, oh, you
1:11:18
thought I never thought of you again.
1:11:20
I miss such all. And I never stopped thinking of
1:11:23
you. But it's so annoying because he
1:11:25
he couldn't say that stuff back in his era and he could have
1:11:28
been amazing. Yeah, because I mean we we
1:11:32
talked about the subtle moment at the end of modern undead
1:11:35
where she says thank you and it's it's like that.
1:11:39
Or the moment where he puts his arm around her in snake dance.
1:11:42
But those moments are so few and far between.
1:11:45
Fraser. Your turn.
1:11:47
McCoy, my Doctor. But what I love about these
1:11:53
scenes is it's goodbye again. We're coming back to goodbye.
1:11:58
We're given Tegan and the 5th Doctor an opportunity to say a
1:12:03
proper goodbye. Yeah.
1:12:05
You know, we'll give an Ace and the 7th Doctor a chance to say a
1:12:08
proper goodbye. We'll never get to see any sort
1:12:10
of goodbye between them on screen, you know.
1:12:12
There's, you know, as many explanations as to what
1:12:15
happened. With this between survival and
1:12:18
the movie, as there is what's happened with Perry.
1:12:22
But again, it doesn't matter what's happened, I've gone
1:12:23
between them. Again, if this was Moffat, you
1:12:27
know, would be explaining If it was RTD, this scene would be
1:12:30
full of exactly what happened between these two and it would
1:12:33
be, you know, the choir in the background and everything.
1:12:36
But it's just so subtle. It's just a such a beautiful,
1:12:41
subtle way of these two characters finally getting just
1:12:45
to. To go and it's it's bridging
1:12:47
that gap. You know we've had Dan doing the
1:12:50
math the proper 80s departure. We're going to have, you know
1:12:55
Manda Yas and in the Doctor are going to have to have a goodbye
1:12:59
at some point in the future, which we know is going to be a
1:13:01
lot more emotional Somewhere in between we now have Tegan and
1:13:07
Ace getting to see their goodbyes.
1:13:09
It's why goodbye. You know I said I'm going to
1:13:12
mention goodbye so much. It's because it's the theme of
1:13:14
this story. This whole story is just about
1:13:18
the Doctor in the Companion saying goodbye to each other.
1:13:21
What shocked me a lot about that scene is I still considered
1:13:26
McCoy to be the worst actor to play the Doctor.
1:13:31
I think that's the best actors scene of the entire episode.
1:13:35
And the line where it goes, the joys watching them fly, his
1:13:41
delivery of those lies, it's it's incredible.
1:13:45
I'm saying incredible again. No, we're eggs and.
1:13:50
That we just said, it was exactly.
1:13:52
What he'd have said to her when she left, if they'd done it on
1:13:55
TV in 1990, that's that's exactly the last line.
1:14:00
Can we have another word for this fella playing a shad,
1:14:02
please, who's a bit given a bit of a thankless role here, but he
1:14:05
does it also, brilliantly be. Honest because he's.
1:14:08
Just there to deliver the exposition because he's not
1:14:10
quite cyber Manny, and it's great.
1:14:13
But that that. You know he's first seen where
1:14:15
he comes out of the sort of Russian doll version of himself
1:14:18
and he's just sweeping through unit and he's just blasting and
1:14:22
it's that tracking shot from, you know, that gets him into the
1:14:26
master cell. You know he's movement as a
1:14:30
cyber man who wasn't quite cyber is just superb.
1:14:34
Just yeah. And the make up is is absolutely
1:14:37
magnificent as well. And it's such a brilliant image.
1:14:41
It captures the idea that this is a person that has been
1:14:45
converted. Yeah, yes.
1:14:47
Again, very economically, very quickly.
1:14:50
Exactly. I don't think you will.
1:14:51
Yeah, You don't necessarily get that with lots of other cyber
1:14:56
men in the new series, where particularly I think with the
1:14:58
Russell ones, it's very much like you put the brain inside,
1:15:02
but there's not the person you've filleted them.
1:15:06
Since. You know, Silver Nemesis.
1:15:09
You know, every Cyberman up until haunting of Villa, Villa
1:15:12
Deo Darte might as well have been a robot.
1:15:15
Yeah, I don't screw that either, you know.
1:15:17
Fraser, what's going on? Russell does his best in, you
1:15:21
know, Age of Steel. Yeah, you get the conversion at
1:15:24
least, and you have the terror, the the terrifying prospect of
1:15:28
being converted. But you have that wonderful
1:15:30
scene in the sewer where the person that's been converted,
1:15:34
you know, remembers the wedding day and yeah.
1:15:37
You know that you have that, but other than that there's the
1:15:40
indistinguishable from robots. So I think and.
1:15:44
Particularly with all the stomping.
1:15:46
Yeah. What I loved about Cybermen as a
1:15:48
kid were that they were quiet and they were hiding in the dark
1:15:52
and they weren't noisy. They could sneak up on you on an
1:15:55
open world. I hate to contradict you
1:15:58
gentlemen, but I still think that their entrance in Age of
1:16:03
Steel is one of their best ever interests.
1:16:05
It's smashing through all those windows, all those low angle
1:16:07
shots, murdering all those people.
1:16:09
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you're saying, but
1:16:12
that's a great moment. Oh, I'm not.
1:16:14
Yeah. I'm not disputed that.
1:16:15
That is beautifully done. What I said to you earlier about
1:16:20
the director sort of keeping us up with everything that's going
1:16:23
on. We've got the side being
1:16:25
invading you at the moment. We've got the The Doctor, Yasin,
1:16:27
the TARDIS. We've got the Daleks and Ace and
1:16:31
Graham now as well. Oh no.
1:16:34
And you know what? When Graham and Ace started
1:16:37
flirting, that's when the shock hit me.
1:16:39
They're the same age. Yes, I still think Ace.
1:16:43
Is 1963. How old are you?
1:16:48
What's What's the What's the the couple name for Gray Menace?
1:16:51
And is it Grace? It can't be grace.
1:16:53
It. Can't be, of course.
1:16:59
And may I say just to add another few for the collection.
1:17:02
Tegan going down the lift shaft there, That reminded me of the
1:17:05
invasion and the volcanoes going off.
1:17:09
That reminded me of Inferno. The Fires of Pompeii.
1:17:17
And enemy of the world, I can't. I cannot imagine a Doctor Who
1:17:23
story having more Easter eggs than this.
1:17:25
I cheered at this moment. Here she is here.
1:17:28
We go. She had I.
1:17:30
Didn't. Who the hell are you and?
1:17:33
It's brilliant because the Master doesn't know that she
1:17:36
Shields her. Yeah.
1:17:38
Are you sure you want to do that, boys?
1:17:41
That's what I say to you too, normally when you give a
1:17:43
controversial opinion. She is so cool.
1:17:48
Of course she didn't know. I think it's it's a sadness of
1:17:51
the era that we didn't get more of her.
1:17:53
No. Yep, because I think she runs
1:17:56
for about 11 minutes or something like that.
1:17:57
Totally as the doctor. But God, every time she turns
1:18:01
up, I was punching the air. Yep.
1:18:04
Yeah, like I said this, I mean, you know me, I'm not a biggest
1:18:07
fan of this version of the Doctor, but when that when she
1:18:11
did come in, I just thought, yeah, that is perfect.
1:18:14
You know, yes, we'll celebrate in the past, but you know.
1:18:17
It's this era. It's a love letter to this era.
1:18:20
Era as well it's there is kind of like as much as anything
1:18:24
else, it's, it's Chip Chipnall's stolen Earth, isn't it?
1:18:27
You know, getting all these other elements from his era back
1:18:30
together. So you know, Vinda Graham's
1:18:32
coming back. Fugitive Dr. Coming In that it
1:18:36
Fits Perfectly Well this bit here, where they all sort of
1:18:39
conspire together to bring down the Master and get the Doctor
1:18:43
back, this is where the title of the episode starts to make
1:18:46
sense. The power of the Doctor is the
1:18:48
friends that she's, and obviously it's made explicit in
1:18:51
that last scene in the therapy session.
1:18:55
It's the friends we've made along the way, I think as a as a
1:19:00
end of an era, a conclusion to make that is beautiful.
1:19:04
I mean, Yas has pretty much, you know, just said it there.
1:19:06
But she said the strength of the Doctor is that she can't help
1:19:10
but make people love her. And she is loved.
1:19:16
She could almost be saying that to those horrible fans out
1:19:19
there, couldn't she? There's that line from the
1:19:24
master. Please don't make me go.
1:19:26
Back to me, yeah, there's a story in that, you know.
1:19:29
Well, it's been there since the. Timeless children, isn't it?
1:19:35
When he's, you know, you can just tell how much he loathes
1:19:38
himself and hates being him. You know, he has that moment
1:19:42
where he's like, he's almost disappointed that zapping A
1:19:46
Shard with the tissue compression eliminated doesn't
1:19:50
blow him up there and then kill himself.
1:19:52
You know, there's so. He's got that deaf wish.
1:19:54
He did self blow then it's just and that's you know he's plot
1:19:58
here isn't you know so much as to like become the Doctor, to
1:20:01
ruin the Doctor. You know to get, you know,
1:20:04
vengeance on the Doctor or anything like that, it is to
1:20:08
stop being him. He wants he's so you know he's
1:20:12
driven by jealousy and self loathe and he watched.
1:20:14
He wants to be the Doctor even though he hates the Doctor
1:20:17
because the Doctor was better than him.
1:20:18
He wants to be the Doctor. So that's.
1:20:20
And take That's got you to down, yeah.
1:20:23
You know, I've heard people whinge about, oh, you know, the
1:20:26
Master kills the Doctor, and of course he kills the Doctor.
1:20:30
That his whole raison d'etre has been that he fucking hates her.
1:20:35
I don't think any other ending to this story would have been
1:20:38
satisfying. No, and that's been the Doctor
1:20:41
master relationship since the deadly assassin.
1:20:44
I don't think it was so. Much rather reminds me of
1:20:46
Lacopolis again, you know? Yeah, with Delgado, it was very
1:20:51
much. A series of games, yeah.
1:20:55
I mean, it was set up with sort of like Holmes and Moriarty, but
1:20:58
it was more, I'm trying to think, you know, you know, they
1:21:01
were more like friends, weren't they?
1:21:02
You know, when when you get back to when we cycled out to Missy,
1:21:07
you know, and God forsaken confession dial and you know,
1:21:12
yes, the doctor's my best friend is like what?
1:21:15
It actually makes sense when you look at like Pertwee and
1:21:18
Delgado. Oh, OK.
1:21:21
A moment, please for Kate Stewart displaying an emotion.
1:21:23
Thank you. Cheers.
1:21:25
I thought she was gone. I really thought she was gone,
1:21:28
Yeah. And what was she fell down that
1:21:30
lift shaft? No, no, no, no.
1:21:32
I thought Kate Stewart was done for at that point.
1:21:35
I thought we were. That was it.
1:21:37
There, it's never explained how Tegan survived falling down that
1:21:41
lift shaft. And I believe just got in.
1:21:43
With the Eric say. Worse exactly, you gave me the.
1:21:46
Answer. There where she got turned into
1:21:48
a part side man or something at the end of Resurrection of Dalek
1:21:51
novel. Well, funnily enough when I met
1:21:54
Janet Fielding at the Brit sci-fi event in the Space Centre
1:22:00
earlier this year in June and she did the the panel with the
1:22:04
other companions, which was Sophie Allred and Fraser Hynes
1:22:08
and Katie Manning. Yeah, it did come up in the in
1:22:11
the conversation was, you know, how did Tegan manage to survive
1:22:14
falling down the the lift shaft and I believe it's because
1:22:19
Australians are bouncy. Oh, is that right?
1:22:24
Australians are bouncy. We know plenty of them.
1:22:26
We know that rumours, true, yeah.
1:22:31
Look, look at the doctor. Here she goes.
1:22:32
Right. Give me a moment because she's
1:22:34
literally got 3 plots she's got to tie up.
1:22:36
Yeah. And it's like the end of flux
1:22:38
where there are the three Doctors doing the three
1:22:41
different parts of the the the storyline.
1:22:45
So she's sort of picking it up, but here she's just doing it
1:22:47
because there's just her. Do you know what this reminded
1:22:50
me of? So I'm going to weigh off peace
1:22:53
now. The 8th Doctor book, The
1:22:54
Gallifrey Chronicles, which ends with the Doctor bringing back
1:22:59
everybody that has died throughout that book back to
1:23:02
life. In a spectacular moment across
1:23:06
the world. And she does something similar
1:23:08
here, doesn't she? She stops all those volcanoes
1:23:10
erupting by turning them into pieces of art.
1:23:14
It's like a spectacular flourish at the end of her life.
1:23:19
Hey, it's in a baseball bat and Daleks.
1:23:22
Yeah. Oi, pepper pork.
1:23:25
I mean, that's what you want is. We would have been disappointed
1:23:27
if she hadn't. Yep.
1:23:31
And still the Nitro 9 timers don't quite work.
1:23:34
Yeah, of course. One of these days is we need to
1:23:37
talk about acceptable safety. Standards.
1:23:42
That's long talk I would love. I would love a Disney Plus spin
1:23:46
off of of Graham and Ace. Oh yes, please.
1:23:50
Little sitcom. Chemistry.
1:23:52
It's. All it grace and favour.
1:23:54
Also Graham, Flying Daleks. Woo.
1:24:02
Oh my God, look at them coming out of that volcano.
1:24:04
Very cool. Yeah.
1:24:08
At this point, you know, I feel as if I oh, hang on.
1:24:11
Let's talk about this building exploding.
1:24:12
And there's just that tiny bit of rubble beyond, and the people
1:24:16
on the street just go, oh. Dear And then go about their
1:24:19
business again. But it's designed that way.
1:24:23
It's designed to contain collapse and contain.
1:24:26
So it's all in there. Yeah, it's still.
1:24:29
Shit. Oh, here we go.
1:24:30
We've got 1 brilliant line. Yes, I would like to.
1:24:34
Go into the task. Oh my God.
1:24:40
I was cheering, so I was clapping.
1:24:43
I was so happy with that line. She's waited for a moment, isn't
1:24:48
she? She has and.
1:24:50
Obviously we get them up. Kate gets to go in the TARDIS
1:24:52
and she's absolutely shocked. She's sort of giddy, though,
1:24:55
isn't she? She sort of goes.
1:24:57
And she gets the bigger on the inside line, which you need to
1:25:00
have in this episode really as well, don't you?
1:25:03
This reminds me of she doesn't know she doesn't differently do
1:25:06
this. Kate Stewart does the line
1:25:09
differently though, because she knows the TARDIS is bigger on
1:25:12
the inside. Oh, it really is.
1:25:15
No. As a scientist, she wants to
1:25:18
know how is it? Bigger.
1:25:19
Oh yes. She's, you know, she's not
1:25:22
questioning the fact that it is. She's like, how is it bigger on
1:25:26
the insect and how is it actually done?
1:25:28
She just said where's where's Ryan?
1:25:31
And someone said, oh, contractual obligations, but
1:25:37
he's off on tour. I was done.
1:25:38
Oh. My God, it's a replay of the
1:25:41
scene where she made the solid screwdriver.
1:25:42
She's got the goggles on. Yep, Yep.
1:25:45
And also, you've got a replay of everyone at the TARDIS console,
1:25:49
like at the end of Journeys Ends, which is the hero moment.
1:25:53
Can I take this moment please, to address Luke Malloy, who is
1:25:56
not a fan of this era? Who says oh what, you can be
1:25:59
eccentric just by wearing a pair of goggles?
1:26:01
No, Luke Malloy is because she looks fucking cool.
1:26:04
When she's got them on, that's why.
1:26:05
And this doctor has been an engineer and has been someone
1:26:09
who makes things she loves. The science, doesn't she?
1:26:12
And the technology? Yes, she's amazing.
1:26:19
Here she is. I mean, she's got a freeze
1:26:21
volcanoes. Yeah.
1:26:23
That's pretty badass if you ask me.
1:26:28
Type 75 Tortoise known as. Look at the colour scheme there.
1:26:34
Gorgeous is that Really is classic, classic Ronnie.
1:26:37
That's right, the dry ice company doing overtime.
1:26:42
Always joy. Can I say, Ronnie, did you say
1:26:45
please? If she came out in high heels,
1:26:48
it'd just be the ice and on the cake.
1:26:53
I truly love as well, in a minute that her last act before
1:27:00
she is killed is an act of kindness.
1:27:03
Letting that thing go, she's. Been a kind doctor, yeah.
1:27:07
And she's been a lovely doctor. And that's an absolute right?
1:27:10
It's yeah. It's not this.
1:27:12
This is very cool what she does here with the volcanoes but
1:27:16
heard of. That one moment of yeah, one
1:27:20
last not good thing to do. And this is so this whole scenes
1:27:27
just heard this energy about you're skipping around and you
1:27:32
know. Because there's non-stop.
1:27:35
Yeah. And there's no indication at all
1:27:38
that this is a regeneration story whatsoever.
1:27:41
It's just a chance thing that happens at the end of the story.
1:27:45
And I really like that. I like that it's not seeded all
1:27:49
the way through. The fact that that she managed
1:27:52
to as her regeneration story, she got the the centenary
1:27:56
special with all of the kisses to the past, all of the
1:28:00
fantastic production value. All of this.
1:28:02
Now I know you guys said you like Twice Upon a time, all
1:28:05
right. But as a regeneration story, I
1:28:09
think it pales into insignificance compared to this.
1:28:12
So it's like I said when we did Time of the Doctor, there's
1:28:15
there's kind of two types of regeneration story.
1:28:17
There's the sort of like modern version, which is all, you know,
1:28:21
this is a regeneration story, so it's going to be epic.
1:28:23
It's going to be, you know, everything's going to build up
1:28:26
to this final moment and it's going to be, you know, big and
1:28:30
you're going to know it's a story.
1:28:32
Or there's like the classic version, which is basically the
1:28:34
doctor gets out of trouble every single week until such time as
1:28:37
someone's contract is up and they don't.
1:28:40
And that's pretty much this type of.
1:28:41
Story that's, yeah. And I think that's it with
1:28:44
Christopher Eccleston as well and that's why that one works so
1:28:48
well for me. Eccleston's works for me for the
1:28:52
same reason as the actual regeneration itself is that he's
1:28:56
he's positive it's that this is going to happen, but it's going
1:29:00
to be all right and hers is Doctor, whoever you're going to
1:29:03
be, let's go or whatever, she says.
1:29:06
I'm just sad I'm not going to be there to see.
1:29:10
She gets one tiny moment, doesn't she?
1:29:12
Of tenant where she goes. Oh, I want to do more or
1:29:15
something like that. And then she goes on.
1:29:16
It's just I'm not that arsehole anymore.
1:29:18
No, but you will be. Let's go, let's go and have some
1:29:21
ice cream on the TARDIS, yeah? And she gets one last chance to
1:29:27
get the best of the master, and then he gets the best of us.
1:29:30
Oh my God. Elsie's using the plot device
1:29:32
we've had for up this whole thing.
1:29:34
Yeah. Oh, look at that.
1:29:37
That's nasty, isn't it? Slow motion.
1:29:40
Slow motion. I don't like seeing her pushed
1:29:42
around like that. Oh, and now it's a.
1:29:45
Great stunt, though. It's a great, yeah.
1:29:47
Oh, where? Where?
1:29:49
Yes, carries her back to Natalis.
1:29:50
That reminds me of K first. Androzani.
1:29:52
You. Know it is.
1:29:53
It is the way Davison carries Perry.
1:29:56
Yeah. Oh, we are.
1:29:58
This is so gorgeous. All of this.
1:30:01
And it has to be Yas that goes and gets her.
1:30:04
I think there was ice creams at the end then were made by
1:30:07
Androzani butt milk. I imagine so, yes.
1:30:11
No. Why, she would have been all
1:30:13
right. Oh.
1:30:17
It's been a minute where all the companions crowd around her as
1:30:20
we think she's going to regenerate.
1:30:22
That reminds me of Journey's End, you know, I think.
1:30:28
It's deliberate, I'll be in position, but it's absolutely.
1:30:31
Different There are, yeah, definitely there's.
1:30:33
A lot to. Have been the last episode of
1:30:35
Doctor Who, so to do all these call backs is.
1:30:38
Absolutely right. Yeah.
1:30:41
But what is great is yeah, we sort of.
1:30:44
We give the companions that scene, that wonderful scene, and
1:30:47
then the focus is just the two characters that have been with
1:30:50
this era since it started. Yep.
1:30:55
And quite right too. And it's and I think it's too.
1:30:59
I think the the scene in the tile is especially is one of the
1:31:03
most emotional scenes where she where she is this bit now, isn't
1:31:06
it? Yeah.
1:31:06
Where she wipes her tear. Amanda can't stop crying.
1:31:14
Like Fraser has said many times in this episode.
1:31:17
It's subtle, but it's very moving for it.
1:31:20
And this is goodbye as well, yeah?
1:31:25
Was this their last scene they shot I?
1:31:28
Don't know, I'm not sure. No one, no one knows.
1:31:31
I think, I think that they said on the commentary they they
1:31:35
asked, can our last scene be our last scene?
1:31:39
So, so you know, not like when Tennant left and then he had to
1:31:41
come back and do some pickups hanging from wires or something.
1:31:49
It's just lovely. It's so understated and just
1:31:54
that moment where it's the Cloister bell and she falls over
1:31:57
and then the look at your yes, spotting the hand first.
1:32:03
I don't think either of the two actresses have ever looked.
1:32:06
Like they've never been lit more beautifully.
1:32:08
However, they in this scene and in the next scene on the top of
1:32:11
this. That that's not right.
1:32:14
I need more time. That's heartbreaking.
1:32:16
Then that's that's beautifully played.
1:32:20
Sad as Yaz knows. Yaz knows this is going to be
1:32:26
goodbye. Yeah, and look at their eyes.
1:32:29
Look where they're looking on each other's face.
1:32:32
They saw. Want a kiss?
1:32:33
Yeah, I wish they had. I wish they had.
1:32:37
And here some part of me is like, no, no.
1:32:42
Yep again, in that interview Chris Chibnall addresses that
1:32:46
and I can't remember exactly what he says.
1:32:48
So go and listen to the whole corner of the corner Chris
1:32:50
Chibnall interview. I mean, he says it's unrequited
1:32:54
in the interview, but they clearly love each other.
1:32:57
And she's emotional, basically. Says it, doesn't she?
1:33:00
Yeah, And OK, I'm with. I'm with Jodie.
1:33:04
I definitely have mint choc chip that.
1:33:07
Beautiful image of them sitting in front of the earth on the
1:33:10
TARDIS roof. Yeah, it's.
1:33:16
And after all that noise and bombast.
1:33:18
It's just quiet. Yeah, it's lovely.
1:33:21
And and just how, like I said to you in a message, isn't it how
1:33:24
she celebrates her whole time as the Doctor and had the friends
1:33:29
that she's made? And just says that I love you
1:33:32
all. That's what she's taking away
1:33:34
from this regeneration. There will never be another
1:33:39
Doctor Who like this that is so positive and so full of love.
1:33:43
Then the when and if we get a woman again, they'll push away
1:33:47
from this completely. She's really unique.
1:33:52
She's she's so good. I wasn't expecting to love her
1:33:55
as much as I did, and I wasn't expecting this goodbye to.
1:33:59
To hurt like it did. I wasn't expecting it to be so
1:34:03
good, to be honest. No, but it's just so pitch.
1:34:06
Perfect. My hearts are so full of love
1:34:08
because of all of you. And that's that's a message to
1:34:11
take away from being the Doctor and that's that's a message for
1:34:15
fans. That's you know that I'm going
1:34:19
to say it that the power of the Doctor is the love we have for
1:34:23
this show. And it's the Doctor is is the.
1:34:26
The central thing, and there might be doctors that we know
1:34:28
and love all the way through that come and go, but the
1:34:32
central thing, that love for the show brings us all together.
1:34:36
Well, I was going to say and look at me fellas, when I'll say
1:34:39
this and Fraser, don't roll your eyes with me and the friendships
1:34:42
you make along the way. Definitely, yeah.
1:34:45
Those are the most important things of all.
1:34:47
That's. Very powerful the.
1:34:49
Central part of Doctor. What a lovely conclusion to draw
1:34:53
at the end. Yeah, quick someone says
1:34:56
something funny or somebody. No, I'm sure in the moment I I
1:35:03
love Doctor Who and I love Simon Hart and Fraser Gregory, so no.
1:35:07
I love you both too. And I love this silly show that
1:35:12
just gets under your skin and this, this little wave, you
1:35:18
know? And it's just that that look.
1:35:20
And that, yeah, we're doing this, but we're not saying
1:35:22
anything. I'm waiting for phrases to go
1:35:24
Yeah, you're all right. You'll do.
1:35:29
I love that. We've got one more surprise to
1:35:31
come. Oh, there you go.
1:35:32
That'll do. We know how he feels, really.
1:35:35
Sorry. We do, you know, and oh, look at
1:35:40
this and Dan. Don't you tell me this era
1:35:43
didn't have great companions. You've got three bloody classics
1:35:45
right in front of you, yeah? Yep.
1:35:48
So give me plus Disney plus Grace and favour the grim and
1:35:55
Ace ROM com with Dan as the, Fonz as the.
1:36:02
Site Well, Dan's always been Yass.
1:36:03
His companion? Yeah.
1:36:05
With enough, I'll see Katie Manning at so many conventions
1:36:08
now that this didn't really move me very much.
1:36:11
The personal I haven't seen is William Russell.
1:36:14
Yeah, yeah. And that was, that was the, that
1:36:17
was the. Special What was the 4th, 3rd or
1:36:20
4th time I cried when watching this the first time?
1:36:24
And have you noticed this is paralleling the woman who fell
1:36:27
to Earth? Because at the end of that,
1:36:29
Bradley Walsh gave a very moving speech.
1:36:32
Yeah, and yeah, I like that they do.
1:36:37
This is what I always wanted. I always said for for an
1:36:41
anniversary story, what I would do is a story about the
1:36:44
companions getting together and telling the.
1:36:48
It would be a small low key story of the companions getting
1:36:51
together and sharing their stories and you might get little
1:36:54
sort of flashbacks to their their adventures and things like
1:36:57
that. And I always thought you could
1:36:58
really celebrate Doctor Who so beautifully through the through
1:37:01
the companions and it's not something we've ever done.
1:37:04
We always focus on the Doctors coming back, but it's never we.
1:37:10
You can do all of these stories by bringing the companions back
1:37:14
together, because they're as important as the Doctor.
1:37:18
Maybe I just think that I doubt would be really good because
1:37:20
obviously you can't bring the doctors back now because they
1:37:22
all look a different age. Yeah, but compared except
1:37:24
Christians just showing us how you do it in a really subtle
1:37:27
way, because Moffat had to bring back Tom Baker in a different
1:37:33
role. Moffat just couldn't make that,
1:37:36
you know, suspension of disbelief or whatever, that
1:37:39
thing just to go, yeah, it'll be fine.
1:37:41
We don't need to explain it. We don't need a clever way.
1:37:43
We can just bring them back and let them crack on and go with
1:37:45
it. Whereas the Chimnells proved
1:37:46
himself cleverer than Moffett. Who would have thought it?
1:37:50
Well, I would have for a start, sorry.
1:37:53
He would go I. Did very quickly say this before
1:37:56
we Oh no, I'm going to save it for afterwards.
1:37:58
I don't want to spoil the moment.
1:37:59
Because her last lines are wonderful.
1:38:03
And Durdle Door is such a special place for me.
1:38:05
Because that's where I had my childhood holidays.
1:38:08
On that beach by by Durdle Door, this is Yeah.
1:38:14
It's. Beautiful, I swear, When she
1:38:15
throws out her arms, there's a sort of like a rainbow in the
1:38:18
regeneration, isn't she? I want to know what happens
1:38:21
next. Look how stunningly beautiful
1:38:24
she looks there in that close up.
1:38:26
And she's so happy to be going. And I I may have changed my
1:38:30
mind. Going.
1:38:32
Tag your RIP may be the best line in the whole thing.
1:38:34
Oh, absolutely here. We go oh.
1:38:38
My God, who could possibly be coming next?
1:38:40
And it's so beautiful, you know. Everything I can, all as 13th
1:38:46
Doctor theme, just gorgeous, swimming through the air.
1:38:49
How can anyone say this ain't great?
1:38:51
Totally. But look, here comes shoot.
1:38:54
You got what? Wait, shoot.
1:38:58
Oh wait, wait. Who's this?
1:39:01
What's happened there? Go inside.
1:39:03
Do your impression Hello. Oh.
1:39:05
Hello, I know those teeth. Now I do know people that watch.
1:39:11
This and cheered at this point. Yeah, yeah.
1:39:13
You know, he's incredibly popular.
1:39:15
He's incredibly good. He looks magnificent.
1:39:18
I love the costume. And I think.
1:39:21
Regardless of what we think of the.
1:39:23
Era. He has been brought in to anchor
1:39:27
the show again and that is probably a sensible thing to do.
1:39:31
I do love the cheeky and introduces David Tennant as the
1:39:35
Doctor. But that lasts sort of 5
1:39:41
minutes. It's some of the most beautiful
1:39:44
writing and the most beautiful acting in the new series, I
1:39:47
think. Oh, absolutely.
1:39:52
Wow, can I say my really facetious thing now?
1:39:55
You can't, yes. You know that.
1:39:59
But when we're all in the therapy session, yeah, you
1:40:01
remember, I said about Sophie Aldridge, given an amazing
1:40:03
performance. Everything but that last line
1:40:06
which she delivers so appallingly.
1:40:09
Is she all right? So how do you deliver a line
1:40:14
like? That it's really.
1:40:15
Hard. Nobody's perfect.
1:40:17
Wow. Look boys, how many reasons are
1:40:22
we going to do for why Parallel Doctor is?
1:40:25
Hundreds. Should we do 13?
1:40:32
Well, look, we'll start with Fraser and then sigh and then
1:40:35
me, OK, Until we run out of ideas.
1:40:40
Right. Why?
1:40:41
Why do I love that story? Because of goodbye.
1:40:44
Because, like I said, the whole point of that story is to say
1:40:48
goodbye to Jody. But it runs all the way through
1:40:53
from, you know, Dan's quick goodbye to, you know, Ace and
1:40:58
Teagan getting to see their goodbyes to.
1:41:03
Yas and the Doctor having to say their goodbyes to then Jodie's
1:41:06
final goodbye to us which like you say is so positive so
1:41:10
moving. It is exactly Got that?
1:41:14
That element of of tenants I don't want to go but coming at
1:41:18
it from the angle of the 13th Doctor which is you know not for
1:41:23
selfish reasons but just because of how much is loved being that
1:41:27
Doctor. It's it's just it's just
1:41:31
beautiful. Goodbye.
1:41:34
OK I'm. I'm going to do something
1:41:36
slightly different here. I'm sort of on the theme of
1:41:39
goodbyes. I want to say that that will
1:41:41
probably be the last new Doctor Who I ever watched with Steve.
1:41:45
And that's something for me to cherish and something very
1:41:49
special and very heartfelt after sort of 17 years of watching new
1:41:54
Doctor Who together. That's our last one and that's
1:41:58
something to go out with and. I just want to say thank you to
1:42:02
him for making that a really special moment as well.
1:42:08
That's the power of the Doctor, isn't it?
1:42:10
It is Ara. The doctor brought me in my
1:42:14
graph as well. Come on now, Low.
1:42:15
We've got a lot to celebrate here, I am going to say, because
1:42:21
I want to get there first. Sasha Dwan, who I think was
1:42:26
already reasonably popular, but I think he sort of shot up in a
1:42:30
lot of people's estimation after this episode came out.
1:42:34
He gets a lot of focus. He has to a lot of stuff in it.
1:42:38
He's been taking notes from the best Roger Delgado and he just
1:42:43
delivers a magnetic, like amazingly watchable performance.
1:42:49
I I think he's, I say. I can't take my eyes off him.
1:42:53
It's the highest accolade. Whenever he's on the screen, he
1:42:57
absolutely terrifies me. He turns me on and he engages in
1:43:02
me at every turn. Fraser, stop rolling your eyes.
1:43:05
You're next. I agree.
1:43:08
Well, if I'm next, I'm going to do a variation on the on the
1:43:11
theme then and I'm going to say the Master dancing to Boney M
1:43:17
because it's just. It's just.
1:43:20
Such an unexpected moment, and it's.
1:43:23
You know, Chibnall hasn't always got the comedy right.
1:43:27
You know hashtag Internet family in resolution.
1:43:32
I think that's so bad. It's hilarious, yeah.
1:43:35
No, it's not. It's just bad.
1:43:37
You know, Flux, you got a lot of stuff right and you think, you
1:43:39
know, you wonder how much having John Bishop there helped him in
1:43:44
that respect. But then, you know, you come to
1:43:46
the scene and it's just, it's this campus tits, it's.
1:43:51
On. You know, it's just what, what
1:43:54
what we're doing now, you know, You obviously think Rasputin
1:43:57
Boney M and it comes down and then the whole dancing thing and
1:44:00
then obviously the Cyberman and the Dalek just turn up each
1:44:03
other and go what the fuck if? Anyone ever tells me that
1:44:09
children can't write comedy, I'll just say yes.
1:44:13
I would like to go into the TARDIS every time.
1:44:19
Sorry. OK, well I'm going to have my
1:44:21
moment. Of Peter Davison and Janet
1:44:24
Fielding. Because I had a tear when I
1:44:27
watched that the first time. I didn't expect them to have a
1:44:30
scene together and that was absolutely magical.
1:44:33
And I was suddenly 6 year old thinking of Earth shock the same
1:44:37
way they were and just that Adric.
1:44:41
And then when he turned around and just said Braveheart, I just
1:44:46
went that. That took me right back to being
1:44:50
a small child loving those characters again.
1:44:53
And yeah, for someone who who trades their, their appearances
1:44:59
on this, this podcast as Tales of Youth, that's my youth come
1:45:03
back sort of on TV, which I never, ever, ever expected to
1:45:09
see. I'm going to mirror your left
1:45:16
field suggestion. This was the 1st Doctor Who
1:45:20
story I ever saw on broadcast with my partner who was another
1:45:24
Doctor Who fan and it's remains one of my favourite experiences
1:45:30
of my life. Watching this with him, with all
1:45:33
of these kisses that we laughed and we cried and we punched the
1:45:36
air, we claps and it was just, it was the most magical night.
1:45:41
I can vividly see us watching it.
1:45:44
So yeah, for that reason it is. It is well from you know my left
1:45:54
field moment would comes in the ghost monument.
1:45:57
So we're going to have to do that one to get that that in,
1:45:59
which is when we're doing them all, Fraser, we're doing them
1:46:02
all. When the tortoise appears at the
1:46:04
end and watching it with my son who was seven I think the time
1:46:09
six or seven and literally punched the air when the
1:46:13
tortoise. You know, there's there's no
1:46:16
better sort of feeling than that.
1:46:18
But we're not doing the goose money what we're doing.
1:46:20
Can I just interrupt you there for a second, please, and just
1:46:23
say if you would wish to learn more about these sort of facts,
1:46:28
then head over to Fraser's fabulous blog.
1:46:31
And I know we've already plugged this, but let's do it again.
1:46:35
What's it called again? I forgot what's called.
1:46:37
It's Skies fullofdiamonds.wordpress.com and
1:46:41
it is the countdown of the 60 top Doctor Who stories of all
1:46:46
time as chosen by me. Oh, a frightening thought
1:46:51
indeed, but it's in turn surprising.
1:46:57
It's moving, it's hilarious, and it's brilliantly written.
1:47:01
I mean, I knew you was a clever chap, but I didn't know you
1:47:04
could this clever that beautifully, no.
1:47:07
So check it out, folks. Sorry.
1:47:08
Back to. You.
1:47:10
Is this one going? Is this episode going out on the
1:47:13
23rd? It certainly is, yes.
1:47:16
In which case, if you go there now, you should, if I've got it
1:47:21
right, be able to read about me discussing a Philip Hinchcliffe
1:47:28
story which has got a really tragic side character.
1:47:33
In it and a really strong performance by Elizabeth Slayden
1:47:41
is your last episode, not is your last century, not the 23rd
1:47:44
then. Oh, is this, is this not going
1:47:47
on on the 23rd of October? No, this is going out for the
1:47:50
third. November, I thought you.
1:47:52
Were putting it out on the anniversary of the being shown.
1:47:56
No, this is my anniversary episode.
1:48:00
Don't do. You think, I said at the
1:48:01
beginning. It's very odd that we're
1:48:03
celebrating the anniversary looking backwards, I.
1:48:05
Thought you just wasn't a hinge clip of I was, I was.
1:48:09
Absolutely. Staggered when he dropped that
1:48:11
day. No.
1:48:13
So if you, if you go back on the 23rd of October, yeah, that's
1:48:16
when I talked about the Philip Hinchcliffe story.
1:48:18
But the number one best story of all time is something that no
1:48:23
one is going to predict. Well, OK, Actually, do you know
1:48:27
what this is for a bit of fun? Sorry.
1:48:29
Let's have a guess. I was going to say the 11th hour
1:48:34
because that's an obvious one, because he absolutely adores it.
1:48:37
He just said no one's going to guess it.
1:48:39
Oh. Wait, and it's not the
1:48:40
Dominators. We know what it is.
1:48:43
Well, let's not spoil the surprise, but it's going to be a
1:48:45
Sylvester McCoy story, isn't it? Always going to guess.
1:48:50
Good, good poker face. Well, we know he loves a
1:48:54
particular Sylvester McCoy story.
1:48:56
Yeah, OK, all right, Well, anyway, right folks, check it
1:48:59
out because the blog's just come to an end with the last entry.
1:49:04
Apparently because yeah, just ignore what I said there.
1:49:08
Will you choose your thing? Please come along.
1:49:13
Right. Well, if this is going out on
1:49:16
the 23rd of November, then I'm going to say that this is.
1:49:20
The. Perfect 60th anniversary story.
1:49:24
For Doctor Who, it has got everything you want from an
1:49:27
anniversary story. Multiple villains, multiple
1:49:29
doctors, multiple companions, 90 minutes long excitement,
1:49:34
everything you know juggled together in a really satisfying
1:49:40
way. And and you know, I want to say
1:49:43
something really controversial now.
1:49:46
I think this is going to be a better 60th anniversary than
1:49:52
Star Beast or? Blue Yonder or Giggle?
1:49:57
Well, but it's say something controversial because I think
1:50:00
this is a far better anniversary story than The Five Doctors and
1:50:03
Day of the Doctor. So have you got a controversial
1:50:08
opinion? No, Simon's just shell shocked
1:50:10
now Simon's sitting there going who let him have a beer before
1:50:15
recording this? OK, I'm going to say.
1:50:24
William Russell tying this back to the someone who was in the
1:50:29
very first episode of Doctor Who being there in what was planned
1:50:33
as the very last Doctor episode of Doctor Who that the BBC were
1:50:37
going to make and just that coming back for just a single
1:50:42
line. And he's not a well man and he's
1:50:45
very, very old. But he looked incredible and he
1:50:50
was there. And he nailed it.
1:50:52
He was perfect. I do also want to say that it
1:50:57
would have been brilliant if Mel had turned up with canine, and
1:51:00
this has always been that no one brought canine with them.
1:51:04
And that would have been really lovely if or if Joe would try.
1:51:08
Got there and just we'd pan down and he was just sort of sat
1:51:12
there with his ears whirring. And John Leeson had been there
1:51:14
as well. That would have made it for me.
1:51:15
I'd have probably cried at that as well.
1:51:17
But no, William Russell, I think of all of those companions,
1:51:22
that's that's just lovely. And it's such a shame that a few
1:51:28
years ago, when he was more able to do this, we didn't get a
1:51:31
story with Ian on the same theme.
1:51:37
Then the laptop on the chair, which was such a savvy move.
1:51:42
There's a a laptop on an on an empty chair, and that can be
1:51:47
whoever you choose it to be zooming in to that meeting.
1:51:53
So if someone is not being included that you want there
1:51:57
Leisure or Moon Base or, I don't know, name anyone Polly and Ben
1:52:02
in the orphanage, you know. Perry, Perry.
1:52:06
Yeah, anyone, anyone that that was such a good.
1:52:09
And he said that specifically why that was there.
1:52:11
So what a great move. Yeah, perfect.
1:52:17
My next thing then is going to be the Guardians of the Edge,
1:52:21
just that whole bit where you know, you're kind of like,
1:52:26
surely is, you know. That's the plan, you know.
1:52:30
The Master is going to, you know, regenerate into the Doctor
1:52:32
and somehow we're going to have to stop that.
1:52:34
Oh shit, it's actually happened. And what the hell is happening
1:52:37
now? What's what's actually how we're
1:52:38
getting out of there? And then just to have Jodie
1:52:40
appear and meet older doctors, you know, the previous ones, you
1:52:48
know, that are available or and just have a whole that whole
1:52:52
concept of, you know, there's this sort of metaphysical space
1:52:56
where. You know, the previous
1:52:59
incarnations go once they've regenerated and they're still
1:53:02
hanging around somewhere, you can go and visit them and, you
1:53:06
know, interact with them. And that whole concept in itself
1:53:10
is wonderful. But again, as I've said so many
1:53:12
Times Now that just the fact that he just threw them in there
1:53:18
and just went right, you're the Doctor.
1:53:20
Stick a robe on. I don't do robes.
1:53:22
OK, put your costume on, then go and do this.
1:53:25
But it doesn't matter that you look.
1:53:28
In some instances, exactly the same, in some instances
1:53:31
completely different. It doesn't matter.
1:53:33
You're the Doctor. I'm not going to explain it.
1:53:35
I'm not even going to try and rationalize why he's now, look
1:53:38
the age that he's are. I'm just going to put his in
1:53:40
there and let his crack on and it's.
1:53:42
Yeah, it's a left field nod to the new Adventures as well.
1:53:47
I was just going to say, yeah. We've had time worm relation.
1:53:51
With the the scenes in the Doctor's heads, with the old
1:53:54
incarnations and Peter Davison's Doctor being tied to the tree
1:53:59
and Pertwee sort of being the being the action hero with his
1:54:03
standing with his hands on his hips ready for to help and all
1:54:07
of that. And Tom Baker being the the
1:54:10
boatman and all of, yeah, all of those things.
1:54:13
I think the kisses to the past, they just resonate out into the
1:54:16
spin off media as well. So much there.
1:54:19
He's celebrating everything. Yep.
1:54:24
Right, so it's me again. OK, well, I am going to choose
1:54:30
the Cybermen in UNIT HQ because that's just so well brilliantly
1:54:36
executed and really exciting. And again, and the conversion is
1:54:43
nasty and horrible as well. So yeah, those scenes are
1:54:46
really, really good. I want to celebrate Mandip Gill,
1:54:51
who has always been good. I think she was very good in
1:54:56
series 11 and series 12. I think she was outstanding from
1:55:00
the Halloween apocalypse onwards when she was effectively, like,
1:55:03
you know, #1 companion. And yeah, from there to here she
1:55:09
just, she doesn't deliver a Duff.
1:55:11
No, she's a not a greatly celebrated companion and I don't
1:55:15
understand why because she's massively competent and she's
1:55:19
very funny and she's really engaging to watch and speaking
1:55:23
from meeting her recently at a convention.
1:55:26
Just gorgeous in real life, time for everybody.
1:55:30
Stunningly beautiful. I don't know if Yas will ever go
1:55:35
down as one of the greats, but I think in this episode she is one
1:55:40
of the greats. So Mandip, Gill and Yas.
1:55:46
Thank you, Nakanola. Good choice.
1:55:51
No, it's yeah, he's he's been a real highlight of this era for
1:55:55
me. Let's say Murray Gold is is his
1:55:58
own thing. You know there's elements of of
1:56:03
Gold's work which are, you know really fantastic.
1:56:07
A lot of it is is really good. But you know when when say good
1:56:10
night and all, I come and it was something different and it was
1:56:12
fresh and it was beautiful and it remained that all the way
1:56:14
through, you know, right up until that very final scene.
1:56:18
You know, where his his, his theme is just swelling and
1:56:22
filling, you know, the air when Geordie regenerates, it's
1:56:27
outstanding. So it's a shame that we're
1:56:31
losing him. But at the same time, you know,
1:56:33
it's it just wraps it up nicely that this is, you know, the
1:56:36
Geordie era, It's the chip note era, it's the Akinola era.
1:56:41
I'll sit that bit where she she appears on the edge and it's
1:56:45
that really haunting version of her theme.
1:56:50
It's gorgeous. Although I still think The
1:56:52
Spymaster is my favorite single track of music in all adults.
1:56:57
It's my most listened to or re listened to piece of music.
1:56:59
I think he's great. Well.
1:57:04
There's one obvious thing that we haven't mentioned, and that
1:57:06
is Jodie Whittaker. Damn it, we're all going to go
1:57:09
for that one. Yeah, I know.
1:57:13
You know, she is absolutely fantastic in this episode.
1:57:18
She doesn't put a single foot wrong.
1:57:20
She has to carry this huge story and she does it beautifully.
1:57:25
She's she's up there with her old incarnation.
1:57:29
She's up there with her old friends.
1:57:32
She could easily be overpowered by any of these elements, but
1:57:35
she is central to this whole story and she is wonderful and
1:57:40
she never gets enough love for all the things that she has done
1:57:45
as the Doctor. And she absolutely to me proved
1:57:49
that you can have a female Doctor and she can be the equal
1:57:52
of any other Doctor. And I actually love her, Doctor.
1:57:57
And I didn't expect to and I didn't.
1:58:00
To begin with, it's it's been a slow burn, but I love a
1:58:04
positive, happy doctor and she's been positive and happy all the
1:58:07
way through. And you know, I don't.
1:58:13
I've seen all the crap online that's written about her and she
1:58:16
doesn't deserve any of it. She she, Jodie Whittaker does
1:58:20
not deserve any of that at all. We did the a load of shit well.
1:58:26
We did the commentary for The Timeless Children.
1:58:29
We spend sort of a good 1015 minutes at the end of the
1:58:32
episode discussing the reaction. What I love about this
1:58:37
commentary is that we've just celebrated the episode in the
1:58:40
era and we haven't had to go there.
1:58:42
No, because I think it's all been said, you know, and it is
1:58:46
kind of war under the bridge now, isn't it?
1:58:47
Because we're moving on from this.
1:58:49
This is, this is where this all ends.
1:58:52
What I will say is I think, and I've seen it already start
1:58:55
happening, go and listen to the 13th Doctor episodes of On the
1:59:00
Time Lash where they wrote off the era effectively and they've
1:59:04
gone back and watched them all and realise there is so much of
1:59:08
worth there and it's so that that's already starting.
1:59:11
Yeah, Yep. You know, and she's been such a
1:59:16
great. She has so much love for this
1:59:19
show in the way that every other actor who's been the Doctor has
1:59:23
that love for the show. And I will always love her just
1:59:26
for that moment of spitting in her wardrobe and reassuring
1:59:30
everyone at the start of lockdown that it was going to be
1:59:33
OK Absolutely. And.
1:59:37
Perfect. I'll say it again and again,
1:59:39
thank God it won't. Capaldi.
1:59:43
You're all going to die, kids. I mean, should we end this by?
1:59:50
I'll talk a little bit about Jodie and then Fraser, you talk
1:59:53
a little about that Jodie. And then unless you guys have
1:59:56
lots more to do. Yeah.
1:59:58
I'm. Still good.
2:00:01
I would like to go to bed. I have been working today, you
2:00:04
know. Someone said they were off
2:00:06
tomorrow and we could stay up and talk as long as we wanted.
2:00:09
Someone wanted to do questions from Twitter.
2:00:11
Imagine if we've done that. Oh my God.
2:00:15
After that Arkham space side, 53 questions.
2:00:21
Fifty of them were from fucking Fraser.
2:00:27
Fine, then my next thing is, oh, hang on, Has anyone mentioned
2:00:34
Sophie Aldridge yet? No.
2:00:37
Oh well, I don't think anyone expected me to choose Sophie
2:00:40
Aldridge coming back. I do think she gets a genuinely
2:00:44
great performance in this and I do think she always gave a great
2:00:48
performance on the television and from the second she's
2:00:51
standing in front of that painting to what was the last
2:00:54
scene she's in. Oh no, I did just said earlier,
2:00:58
I didn't. Like that often, Yeah.
2:01:01
I did to her second to last scene.
2:01:02
She's absolutely incredible. She could, I think she could
2:01:10
spearhead a spin off show and that's the highest accolade I
2:01:13
could give her and I think there's a fat, a ready made fan
2:01:16
base for her if I had planned. If she had come back for the
2:01:22
Sarah Jane. That adventures episode which
2:01:25
they were planning on putting her in, I've got a feeling that
2:01:28
might have been the first of many reappearances of her
2:01:31
character and I think there's enough work done with her here
2:01:36
to show. And the reaction, man, the
2:01:38
reaction when that trailer at the end of Legend of the Sea
2:01:40
Devils here, it's the only time ever where the trailer got a
2:01:44
better reaction than the episode.
2:01:47
Sorry Fraser. People love her.
2:01:50
People absolutely love her and. She delivered.
2:01:54
And that's all I've got to say. I mean, we know what the spin
2:01:59
off is going to be. It's going to be the sitcom ROM
2:02:02
com sitcom with Graham Bradley Walsh.
2:02:06
Yeah. And obviously, Dan as well as
2:02:08
I'm. There for that.
2:02:09
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. My next thing, then, is going to
2:02:13
be Magnus Magnusson's grandson, Jamie Magnus Stone, the
2:02:19
director. Is that is he?
2:02:21
Yeah. No, I didn't know that.
2:02:24
There you go. You don't just get a loving
2:02:26
hearing. Behind this whole episode?
2:02:29
Well done, sorry. Well done.
2:02:34
Yeah, obviously he's like I said at the start, he has been an
2:02:36
absolute find for this era, done so much good work, so visually
2:02:43
stunned in what he's given us. You know when his name's
2:02:47
attached to something that you're you're in for a treat.
2:02:50
You're going to enjoy. Watching what's going on there
2:02:54
and he he doesn't disappoint at all in this one.
2:02:57
It's you know it's Chip Mill going out on a high.
2:03:02
It's Jodie going out in a high. It's Jimmy Bagnestone going out
2:03:05
in a high. Assuming that he doesn't come
2:03:06
back, you know for this to be his final one, it's just going
2:03:10
to be a a real high for him to go on and thank you and well
2:03:14
done. I'm going to choose the fact
2:03:19
that of. All the shows the BBC have ever
2:03:24
made, the show that they wanted as their showcase for what the
2:03:28
BBC is as their what in their 100th year that was the keystone
2:03:35
of their celebrations was Doctor Who.
2:03:40
And that's remarkable considering that certainly for
2:03:45
the 1st 26 years or so of probably longer of its life.
2:03:51
It was a program that the BBC churned out without much
2:03:54
thoughts about it. They just did it and it wasn't.
2:03:58
It was. It was regarded well when it was
2:04:01
rating well. But it's had such longevity and
2:04:06
such an impact on the culture of the United Kingdom and across
2:04:13
the world that things have changed so much that this
2:04:18
program that we fell in love with.
2:04:20
At the tail end of its life, when it particularly you 2, when
2:04:26
it wasn't loved and it wasn't adored by the BBC and was just
2:04:30
put up with and then shelved, you know, and it says something
2:04:37
for what's happened since 2003 when when it was announced it
2:04:40
was coming back, that the perception of Doctor Who has
2:04:44
changed so much. And it is the BB CS flagship
2:04:48
drama, you know? When I was young that seemed
2:04:53
unimaginable. We knew how important it was.
2:04:56
I remember the celebrations for TV 60 when there was this huge
2:05:00
Saturday night long show of celebrating what the BBC did by
2:05:04
showing clips and there was a 2 minute montage of clips from
2:05:09
Doctor Who and that was it. And I had to wait hours for
2:05:13
that. And it's just like, yeah, that's
2:05:15
just another thing we do. But now this is this is the BBC
2:05:19
to many people And you know, thank you the BBC for A making
2:05:24
the show and B putting it where we always knew it deserved to
2:05:30
be, but never guessed it would be.
2:05:36
Want to come after that? Yeah, so we have to take a
2:05:42
completely different direction and just say action on a train
2:05:48
because it's fucking cool. It's cool as back to you,
2:05:53
Fraser. Well, I'm going to tie in with
2:05:56
with what Simon was saying there and I'm going to say Chris
2:05:58
Chibnall, I think you know what you were saying there is that,
2:06:04
you know that the BBC have. You know entrusted Doctor Who.
2:06:07
Doctor Who is there, you know 100th anniversary you know thing
2:06:13
that they can hold up and say, yeah, this is, this is what we
2:06:15
do with the BBC. We do Doctor Who.
2:06:18
Yeah. 100 years. Wow.
2:06:21
But you know, I've read or heard a few silly things recently
2:06:26
about, you know, how Chris Chipman was sacked by the BBC
2:06:29
and. You know, the end of his his
2:06:33
tenure. And it's like, yeah, so the
2:06:35
sacked them by giving them the 100th anniversary.
2:06:39
Yeah, the sacked them. They're fickle like that.
2:06:42
Phrase the BBC way of sacking Chris Chibnall was saying.
2:06:44
Yeah, OK, make an extra episode for the 100th anniversary and
2:06:48
then bugger off. We're going to give you the
2:06:51
biggest amount of money we've ever thrown at a drama ever.
2:06:55
Exactly. Exactly.
2:06:57
Piss off. Exactly.
2:06:59
So I'm really glad you've said that, Simon, because it kind of
2:07:01
really. You know, helps put a bit of a
2:07:04
nail in the in the coffin of the idea that, you know, Chris
2:07:07
Chipnall was sacked by the BBC. But ultimately Chris Chipnall,
2:07:11
this is his time as well, you know.
2:07:13
Yeah, this episode you, you look at this and you see how good a
2:07:18
job he's done. It helps you look back at the
2:07:20
rest of his era. You know I've said that would
2:07:23
subtle all the way through today, you know, and you look
2:07:27
back and you think, well actually he's been doing that
2:07:29
the whole time. He's been doing that since day
2:07:31
one. You know, he has had that shift
2:07:34
away from the Doctor as being this superhero.
2:07:39
You know this this sort of Iron Man that descends in this box
2:07:42
from above and you know, bursts out and serves the day and you
2:07:47
know, took the Doctor back to being someone who just wanders,
2:07:51
is an explorer and goes around putting right things that have
2:07:57
went wrong when they find them, but not the type of person that
2:08:01
goes. You know, seeks to do with that,
2:08:06
you know, the the, the, the subtlety and the way that he's
2:08:09
changed the dynamic between the Doctor and the Companions,
2:08:13
making it a bit more of that flat structure like we had back
2:08:16
in Patrick Trouton's time. All the way through you just
2:08:20
look and you think actually you know everything he's doing.
2:08:23
It's not in your face like it's been with, you know?
2:08:28
RTD and Moffat, where they'll, you know, they've got an idea,
2:08:31
so they'll basically take your head and slam it off.
2:08:33
That idea by whichever literary means that they want to do would
2:08:38
be, you know, the music or the writing or whatever.
2:08:42
You know, Chris Chipmel is just happy just to put his ideas out
2:08:45
there and let you form them and let you come across them and
2:08:48
enjoy them in whichever way you want.
2:08:51
Right up until the very end where you know he's written
2:08:54
something that is like I say, in my opinion, I mean.
2:08:58
I might live to regret seeing this, but better than you know,
2:09:02
a better version of celebrating 60 years of the show than I
2:09:06
think what we're going to get from RTD.
2:09:09
Don't get us wrong, I think RT DS been dealt a bit of a bum
2:09:12
hand the way that it's come around.
2:09:13
I think if you know he was sitting and going, I'm going to
2:09:18
write the 60th anniversary 10 years ago.
2:09:20
He wouldn't be doing what he's doing now, if that makes sense.
2:09:22
I think he's kind of boxed into a corner a little bit with.
2:09:25
Availabilities of people and whatnot, But ultimately, this is
2:09:28
such a perfect, perfect celebration of six years of the
2:09:33
show. For Christian not to end his
2:09:35
year on, this time is just magnificent for him.
2:09:38
Well done, Chris. It's.
2:09:41
Lovely, the way that Sorry, sorry, isn't it?
2:09:43
Lovely the way that both The Woman Who Fell to Earth and The
2:09:47
Power of the Doctor have. Jodie Whittaker fought for a
2:09:51
train and saved the day at the beginning, but there's lots of
2:09:53
parallels in this as well as watching it this time.
2:09:56
I'm going Oh yeah, that's so smart.
2:09:58
Lots of call backs. Sorry.
2:09:59
Subtle, isn't it? Yeah.
2:10:02
Well, I mean, ultimately. The wonderful message that the
2:10:07
power of the Doctor are the friends.
2:10:10
I'm sorry, I'm just stealing door everything jokes.
2:10:14
That was literally the way to end this episode.
2:10:16
So just I think we should make this the last one because I
2:10:18
think this is a goodie. Because I think we can all join
2:10:22
in with this one, But you know, that ultimately goes right back
2:10:27
to story #1. Doctor Who and 100,000 BC and an
2:10:33
Earthly Child. The Tribe of Gum, whatever you
2:10:34
want to call it. Not the Tribe of Gum that.
2:10:37
Well, no, we're not allowed to mention the Tribe of Gum,
2:10:39
obviously. But you know, ultimately the
2:10:43
Doctor is made better by the friends they meet, and it's
2:10:50
those friendships that are the lasting being all the way
2:10:55
through. And right up to Yas being the
2:10:58
last companion departing, and she gets to share that moment
2:11:03
with the Doctor before the Doctor dies.
2:11:06
And that's beautiful. It's a lovely message to take
2:11:08
away from the show that your your friends are the most
2:11:12
important things. And obviously my friends here
2:11:15
are the most important thing too.
2:11:19
And Doctor Who brought us together.
2:11:21
It Doctor Who podcasting. Yeah.
2:11:25
You know, and it's like I said in in the episode itself, it's a
2:11:28
very silly show really, but we all found it in our childhoods.
2:11:36
This is me, obviously. It's all about childhood and you
2:11:38
know, and it's been the stable factor in my life all the what
2:11:42
from four years. 4 year old onwards.
2:11:45
And here we are at the 60th anniversary.
2:11:47
I'm celebrating the 40th anniversary of the 20th
2:11:50
anniversary, which is my first anniversary, which is just
2:11:54
ridiculous and that cannot be possible.
2:11:56
But you know, I think of all the people I've met along the way
2:12:00
from the show, Ed has shaped my life and has made it.
2:12:05
I I can't. Well, I don't know what my life
2:12:09
would be like without Doctor Who, because it's been there
2:12:11
since I was so small. That it has shaped everything in
2:12:14
my life and this is just the latest bit and it's the one that
2:12:19
I love. I have.
2:12:23
I have friends who are not from the Doctor Who world and
2:12:29
obviously I have my family. In my life as well.
2:12:32
But it's no small exaggeration to say that the most important
2:12:37
and the most consistent people in my life now are the people
2:12:41
that I have met. In the last three or four years,
2:12:45
through Doctor Who, my partner Mark, you guys, Nathan, you know
2:12:51
Jack Shanahan, You know, that's the power of the Doctor.
2:12:56
It brings incredible people together.
2:12:59
I don't know what else to say. It's amazing.
2:13:08
It's the power, like, yeah, says, you know the doctor.
2:13:13
Those places can't help but make friends and is loved and that is
2:13:18
that's everyone that's listening to this, you know, it's it's
2:13:24
everyone that's kind of come together and thought, you know,
2:13:28
we love this show. We love each other.
2:13:31
We love hearing people talk about the show.
2:13:34
We Love Actually coming on and talking about it ourselves.
2:13:37
We just love Doctor Who. That's the power of the Doctor
2:13:40
is love. Sure, go for ice cream.
2:13:44
Oh yes, mint chop chip. And it's brought a load of
2:13:47
really sexy men into my life as well.
2:13:53
Lucy, get the Brigadier. I'll cut it there.
2:13:59
Stop it. Oh, no.
2:14:02
I'll cut it There. That's a that's perfect.
2:14:09
Stop it.