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Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Louisa's Story · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breath work expert, and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Get ready to go deep.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's dive in.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Hi everyone, welcome back to the show.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: So the Bewitched series continues.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And this week we have Louisa on the show.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: And Louisa has a very unique perspective and story to tell.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, what I'm really recognizing as, you know, the series is definitely, like I said, more women than we originally thought.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: But the women that we ended up interviewing all have such a unique perspective and all add such a unique puzzle piece to this story and this puzzle we're putting together around why this type of thing happens and why these what I'm calling patterns of manipulation will surface inside of relationships.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: And from my perspective, it is all related to unacknowledged or unprocessed trauma and how when we have unacknowledged or unprocessed trauma, it will make us more susceptible to these patterns of manipulation.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And now I have uh tracked about 10 or 11, I can't remember exactly how many there are now, uh, patterns of manipulation that we have seen be consistent across everyone's stories.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: And no matter what the person's perspective is or experience was, and they're all very unique, we saw these patterns of manipulation throughout each story.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I am still in the process of deciding how I want to share these patterns of manipulation with you.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: It might be within another container or I might do a separate program around it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not 100% sure yet.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: But the goal is I want to be able to relate these patterns of manipulation back to unprocessed trauma and how when you acknowledge and process your trauma, you are no longer susceptible to these patterns.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: So so many people have been asking the question of how do we notice the red flags or how do we prevent this from happening?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the true answer is it's not about just noticing red flags.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's about acknowledging and dissolving your own unprocessed trauma.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: And when you do that, you are no longer susceptible to these types of things.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a conversation that I'm going to be bringing forward more and more as we go through this series.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, the answer to the question of how do we prevent this from happening is truly to do the deeper work around your own trauma, which of course is exactly what the metamorphosis is for and what we address in all of my programs.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: So before we dive into the episode with Louisa, just a couple announcements.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: You guys all know my year-long membership mastermind called The Mothership is the way to commit to this work long term and receive unparalleled support from me for one year with the Metamorphosis and all of my other programs.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: The next program we have coming up is Past Lives and Money.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that is where we look at the four major past life archetypal energies that will slow down your growth, especially when you're looking to start a business or step forward in any way to express your authentic purpose.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, most of my work obviously is geared towards the familial trauma, because I truly believe that when we address that, we address all other imports of past lifetimes or ancestral trauma.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: However, what I've noticed after working with hundreds of women at this point to dissolve their trauma is there are these archetypal past life energies that will get in the way, like the fear of being seen, the fear of being judged, lack of motivation or procrastination are all implications of these deeper archetypal past life energies, which I show you how to pinpoint and dissolve in past lives and money.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that is coming up soon.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we will link that below.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then also the mothership right now, we are going to be doing a membership exclusive four-week mastermind called Zone of Genius, where I will work with you very closely to go really deep into your purpose and your unique zone of genius, which is how to express your purpose in a way that is satisfying and fulfilling to you, and in a way that you can make money and support yourself in life through expressing your purpose.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that is coming up inside of the mothership.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that mastermind will only be for the ladies in the mothership.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a great time to join.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, when you join Past Lives and Money, you can apply what you've paid for that to joining the mothership.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we will link that below as well.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, we have the next round of the Metamorphosis coming up in May.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that is my signature program to learn how to pinpoint and dissolve your core wound and shift it so that you can create what you want to create in your life, whether it's starting or growing your business or moving forward in ways that you felt stuck before.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody who goes through that program creates a huge transformation in their lives, whether it's at the least a huge perspective shift and understanding of yourself and your purpose and why you do the things you do and how to move forward.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: And at best, you know, substantial growth in your income, your business, promotion at work, your relationships getting substantially better.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: It all happens inside that program.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: So please reach out to me if you'd like more info on that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: I will leave it here.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy the episode.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the podcast.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Today we have Louisa with us.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And Louisa, you have been one of my greatest confidants and supports in the last, especially in the last six months.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: But you've been around Betty's world for a long, long time.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: You were a teacher in Akashic Records.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: There was just a lot going on with you and the work that you were doing around this whole Betty situation.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're happy to have you here, first of all.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to unpacking this all with you.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to hear your perspective.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I can't too.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that where I want to start is why did you decide to come on and share your story?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why was that important for you to do that?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: This was really important for me because of the community at large and recognizing that whilst we all work very closely with Betty, there were a number of people that were being influenced by her, but perhaps from a ripple effect perspective.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And to be able to get the message out for anyone who has had experiences where they were feeling like what the hell's going on, for them to start to be able to unpack it because they may not have the support around them.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: But like we have found as we've come together, as we've been wondering and asking the question, what on earth has happened?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And trying to make sense of it, and to think about from this experience, what then changes?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: How can we help, as leaders, coaches, spiritual mentors, how can we help the people that we're working with to have discernment to help them spot red flags in the future so that no one else has to go through an experience like this?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's an educational piece.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I have been so grateful to everyone who is stepping forward to share their experience because I think it is in as you've been talking and I've listened to a couple of the shows so far, being able to start to see that golden thread.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: What are the patterns?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've all got our own individual experiences, and it's not until you suddenly realize that, oh my word, actually, this is bigger than my individual experience.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't just a weird one-off thing, there was something much larger at play here, like these patterns and this huge impact, toxic impact, unfortunately, ultimately on people.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think the patterns are everything, and that's what we're starting to see.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, do you want to start with what drew you into working with Betty and just start from the beginning with us?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in a business coaching program where I had actually started doing sales for that coach.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I had was navigating being their client and also doing sales calls for their business.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had been trained in an energy alignment modality, and one of the things that had started to happen was that I didn't have the language for it at that time, but it was I was starting to channel and I would be swaying letters.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a bit like playing spiritual hangman, trying to figure out what the hell's going on.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: My body's moving around in all sorts of directions, and then I was shown it was it was letters, and I kept hearing the words Akashic Records, and I was like, okay, I know I need to train in the Akashic Records.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: That was very clear that that was the direction I need to go in.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I was living in the energy question of show me who is the person that's meant to be teaching me the Akashic Records.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember when Betty came into this group coaching program that I was in as well, and she did her first kind of post, and I just had that immediate reaction of that's the person I'm supposed to be learning the Akashic Records with.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I friend requested her, and the rest is history, as they say.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: But that was the initial, that's how I found her.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was very intentionally looking for an Akashic Record teacher, someone that would help me to take the energetics to that next level to guide me through that.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: What were your early experiences with her?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Was it primarily in a group setting?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have privates with her?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what were some of the salient experiences you had around that time when you were just beginning?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's two aspects.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's my experience at the time, and then there's my experience of looking back at the time, and I would say that they are different, if that makes sense.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So one of my first experiences with her was in a group business coaching session, and I'd won, I think, a free Akashic record reading.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, my perception of her, and she was, is, was, I feel like I'm speaking in the past tense, and that actually feels very symbolic because there were there's two versions of our experience of her.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time, I I really had given my power away over to her of seeing her as being someone incredibly intuitive who could read beyond what anyone else could have read before.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And in my first experience of the Akashic Records, and I've really debated whether to reveal this, but it feels really important to reveal this.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is one of the things that she said to me was that I was born out of marital rape.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, That's why my mother hated me so much.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: We've all had those moments where we are shown some information and we can then know whether we feel it's true in our body or not.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: This didn't feel true in my body at all.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, because I was in that theta state in the Akashic Records, I'm very open and susceptible to consider is this true?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I left that session really questioning everything, but also knowing in my core, my father is deeply Christian, he has passed away, and my mother is very Christian, and so it didn't land, but I was left with this trauma and this awareness that my perception of her was that she was very intuitive and could see things beyond what anyone else could see.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Elise, before you jump in here, I just want to say as I was watching you, Louisa, tell your experience.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was watching Elise almost come through the camera.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Elise, can you say what's happening on your end as you heard Louisa reveal that?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because this is bullshit.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: And this is like honestly the fifth or sixth person who said something like this or that I've witnessed, probably more, including one of my own clients who I then had to help deal with the trauma of having something like this said to her.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it really just pisses me off, especially when it's like people that I've been close to that I have worked with as a client or just supported as a friend to heal certain levels of trauma and then to watch them be re-traumatized with something that's a lie.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: I guess we can't necessarily prove whether it's right or wrong, but at the end of the day, it's a lie because she can't prove whether it's right or wrong either.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I just feel like it's so unethical.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: And from a trauma perspective, it just really bothers me because you're using that as a way to get somebody to trust you and to like have a bond with you.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the most manipulative, darkest, low frequency way to try to reel somebody into your field.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And now that I've heard it over and over and over again, I'm just like, I want to go beyond it's an ethical issue.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: It is an ethical issue, but this is given at least what you just said about the pattern that we keep seeing of, and we each had that experience as well of being re-traumatized or traumatized by something that she said in supposedly in our highest service, but ultimately what it ended up doing is creating a trauma bond.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is an abuse of power, and it's devious.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: That is what I will say.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and I think that's why I wanted I wanted to reveal what it was, what she had said, because I had at that time then compartmentalized it, said that that just doesn't resonate for me.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: My discernment is that it's not true, and parked it because everything else was feeling good, feeling in alignment, and I felt the contribution to myself from the other aspect, because of course we were focusing around business.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I too have seen that pattern where over the years, and they these were very sporadic at the beginning, and then they've started to escalate as people had started coming forward and sharing things with me as well.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is that there was this pattern where there would be, I remember another friend of mine who'd had a reading with her, and she was being told straight off the back that she was being raped at night by aliens, and she was completely traumatized by this, but there was no support in relation to this big reveal.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with you, Robin, as we look back at this, this trauma bonding is a form of coercive control, and it might not make sense to us logically, but there is something energetically that is happening when you're in that theta state with someone and they are revealing things to you, and you're in that space of you've opened my cashic records, show me what I need to know to the next path of my direction.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Did she ever return to that with you?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember her returning to that, no.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, I certainly had never asked about my birth.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember what we you know how that had come up, what my intention for going into the into the records was at that time.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think for me it's it's it's hindsight, isn't it?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: When you look back and you start to see the patterns, it's as Elise uh this you know it's bullshit.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and this is the thing for me is we really need to be very discerning about who we allow to read our Akashic records.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am very, I do not let anyone read them.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Robin, I let you read them, you've read my records.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's one other lady that reads my records as well, but that is it.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think we really need to be so careful about who we're allowing into our consciousness.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, everything that they are seeing is coming through them.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're not a clear channel and they have patterns of paranoia and they have whatever they've got going on, then that can distort what they're revealing.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: They may not be the clearest channel, even though they say they are.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that was your initial experience with her, and then obviously continued working with her and like in what capacity, and then what was your experience?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I continued working with her in group programs to start with.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that was probably from 2017 to I can't remember when I started working one-to-one with that.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say group group programs 2017 to 2020.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: I trained as an Akashic Record teacher, absolutely loved that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I went during the time that's been our sort of deepest connection in relation to that as one of the teachers of the Akashic Records.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say during that time, in the early days, there were many good contributions to myself and my business with deep insights, and I would have described her as having an edge.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Every now and then I'd be like, oh, that feels a bit unaligned.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's the best way to describe it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And often it would be how she would be treating somebody else.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I might have seen her calling somebody out in a group setting, and that always felt very unethical to me.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: In the beginning, it didn't happen very often, and so it's one of those things where it happens and then things are back to normal.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think, like all abusive relationships, in the beginning, it doesn't happen very often, and so you forget about it until the next time, and then you're like, oh, hang on a second, that's happened, that's happened again before.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I've seen her in the early days just once or or twice treating someone, perhaps not in the best light, in front of all their colleagues and their peers in the membership group, which made me feel very uncomfortable.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember like an example, just so like people understand what you're talking about?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can remember the lady's name, this one, because I just felt it viscerally, and it was in a client attraction group program, and she was saying, I'm just trying to pull back the details.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was something to do with the client, don't want to say her name, of course, but the client was saying was having some cash flow issues, and that all her programs were 3K packages, and she was calling her out for basically saying that somehow she was less than because she wasn't charging more than 3k.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So there was an element of what I perceived from the conversation that she was being shamed in front of everybody for holding on to having 3k packages and not wanting to move beyond that because her perception was that that was the the right amount for the length of the program and and all the things.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is that enough of a sort of detail to give a flavor of the impact that that had on someone?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: How did you feel like you were guided to handle it as a leader in that group?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Were you wanting to say something?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Were you not able to say something?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know I had the experience a lot of times of watching stuff like that and then not knowing what to say, sort of freezing in some ways.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think freezing is a really good way to describe it.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: At that time, we were on uh conference calling, so we couldn't even see people.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that created a barrier in terms of connection between everybody in the group.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's certainly my perception.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I would, I've always done this in groups, wanted to reach out and have cups of tea with people to get to know them.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think we did that, Robin, right back in the early days.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: I never had one with that lady.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember if she stayed in the group or removed in the group.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Forgive me, I can't remember that aspect.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember feeling like I wasn't my place to speak up in that environment because I'm not the coach, I'm part of the group, if that makes sense, and not feeling that I knew the person well enough to say, hey, that felt like that was really shit.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I'm not judging it, I'm just more simply pointing out another pattern, which is that when we're students or peers or other clients in groups like that, there's a power differential and a dynamic that can play on not just your adult self, but what happened in like third grade if the teacher got mad at one of the other students?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: We probably all were glad it wasn't happening to us.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that in some ways, especially in a situation like that, there can be a tendency to regress or to have something from the inner child perspective that's triggered or very present with situations like that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those things, because we've got the hindsight now.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've gone back to kind of look to see where the red flags were.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so often, because we're in that moment where our tolerance for perhaps things that right at the beginning that we would have said, red flag, that's it, I'm out.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: We start to, because we're invested in that relationship, we start to tolerate things that perhaps we we wouldn't have before.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that makes total sense.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we that's another thing that I think we all felt.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then also just from like a business perspective, do you feel like you learned things?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like your business grew?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did you feel?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: About it from that lens around like what you learned or the results that you got, and just like your experience with that aspect of working with her.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: The contribution with a business perspective would have was more high level rather than how to do things, if that makes sense.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say it was a mixed bag.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: There were certainly times in the early days where I was new to growing a business online that I found some of the more introductory courses that at that time she offered, they were helpful.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: That client attraction course was really helpful that we did.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: But then what started to happen as I work in more closely with her, that the mastermind conversations and the one-to-one conversations would be focused more on what jumps out at me now is more on what was going on for her, who she's fired within her team, who she's fired as a client, and slagging everybody off.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that for me makes me contract back and feel very, very uncomfortable.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: So certainly I would say that aspect of it seemed to grow more and more over the years.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Something happened, I think, in 2020, where for me that was a turning point, and still, of course, working with her and all those things.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that was reflecting with Robin in relation to those decisions around continuing to choose to, I thought it was a choice to work with her again, was actually, as I look back now, controlling chords being sent from telepathic messages in relation to you're going to want to work with me again.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was saying to Robin that there were various experiences at that time that as I was looking at the different programs, to there'd be an invitation, you'd see it in the Facebook group or in your email or whatever, you'd be deciding do you want to step into it or not?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I would be hearing thoughts in my head, like, this is going to be really great, you're going to really want to do it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd be feeling them here at the back of my head on the right-hand side, very specifically.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would go into Facebook and then I'd see a message saying, Oh, I've been getting your telepathic messages that you want to work with me.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, Oh my word, that's amazing.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have been thinking that.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And now I look back, I know when I receive a telepathic thought, I feel it there on the bottom right-hand side.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's around the gates of consciousness, acupusure point.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's where telepathic messages come in for me.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know if I hear, feel a thought, and I recognize it as there, it's not my thought.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: When do you think she implanted that in you?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: At what point?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Was that at the very beginning, or did that happen gradually?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think my awareness of it started to increase because I was realizing I was having these contradictory thoughts where I'd be feeling like, okay, I'm now complete, we're gonna step out of this program.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm beginning to feel a bit uncomfortable around the customer care of people.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm beginning to find I don't want to recommend her to people that are coming through the Akashic community, and that created cognitive dissonance in me.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can I protect my clients so they're not gonna have these experiences?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'd find myself saying yes.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, can we go into a little bit like why you didn't want to recommend your clients, the client care experience, like all those things you just mentioned?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: Can we like dive into that a little bit?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that stemmed out of the increase of seeing people being shamed for want of a better word, in a in a group setting.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And also we would have, I know you'll have seen these posts where it would be positioned as setting boundaries, but the energy I felt when I read those posts around basically don't behave like this, and I am I'm your leader and coach, so you don't ask me to do X, Y, and Z.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, that's it, you're out.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow, my perception would be I'm putting myself on a pedestal, and you all need to treat me in this certain way, and it would be very jarring to my energy field, and I'd feel like it's it's just rude, quite frankly.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there were those aspects where the teaching that we would receive was this is around setting boundaries and creating a strong container, but it felt like it was implemented in a way that left people feeling a bit bitten by it, and also I'd see had seen people in her community that where they weren't at the business level that she really desired to work with, she would kick them out of the community.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: She had a Facebook group where she would just kick people out, and some of them were my clients.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: They'd come to me and go, I've finished doing the Akashic Record training and I can't get into the group.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'd be told, Oh, I've kicked them out because they're putting on my energy.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now at the time, it was like three people I can remember that happening to, and I was like, This does not feel good.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: This does not feel good, and I'm teaching this system, so how can I protect my clients?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Then not having that experience of feeling rejected from the leader.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it makes sense.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reflecting, Louisa, when Elise asked you that question about protecting clients.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I never recommended anybody, and I remember thinking something like, I don't want them to have this experience.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it was almost like on a very un or subconscious level that I was doing that because periodically, I don't know if she did this with you guys, but she would come to me and say, Who do you know who is ready to work with me right now?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a very common thing, I think, in our field to seek referrals and have those kinds of conversations.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I rarely, especially after about the first year, ever referred, I don't think I ever referred anybody to her after the first year, simply because of how poorly she treated the ones who I did refer.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the the thing, because I was teaching the Akashic Records a lot, and that training is incredible.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: It is absolutely incredible.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so people would be know of her through the manual and and through that training.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so it created a lot of cognitive dissonance in relation to that, of recognizing here's this incredible program that changes lives, people are able to go out there and and change people's lives.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's just not feeling in alignment with the the founder of the, for whatever reason, the evolution, the path that they've gone down, and the characteristics that they are now displaying.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where it felt very uncomfortable for me, recognizing that I did have clients seeking to go work with her because the training in the Akashics was amazing.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm reflecting too for me.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I remember when she had that Facebook group and she would be like, I just deleted a thousand people because they were pulling on my energy.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then she would tell me to go do that in my Facebook.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I don't feel like any of these people are put.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember it was like confusing to me at the time just because I was newer in business.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I believed her that that was a thing because she just had so much more experience than me.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, okay, this must be a thing that I'm just not aware of yet or I haven't experienced yet.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: But then it planted this seed in your mind to make you kind of like not trusting of people.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that was one of the key components and like patterns that we're seeing.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Can you also go deeper into those moments of I don't think I want to do this anymore, but then you did anyway?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And to add to it, we shared the same team, just to explain that.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things I'm trying to remember the timeline here, but I think it's probably in 2021, her OBM started to work with me, and then my admin started to work for her.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it that started to feel very enmeshed from that perspective as well.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so my intention was okay, I'm gonna be over here doing my thing, leading in the best way that you know I can, and serving my clients and training them in the Akashic Records.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's going on over there.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're just putting a boundary in there at the moment whilst we figure out the way forward.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what I started to recognize that that piece of where I was saying yes to things when I really wanted to say no, I never went on any of the retreats actually, just to speak to that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that is wrapped up within this.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: The thing for me was I said yes to a one-to-one coaching program, and I think there was some energetics going on there that I was already in another group programme, I didn't need any additional support, but I felt compelled to say yes.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Energetically, I understand is that there's people when they're sending telepathic thoughts, if they're sending it with the intention to control your mind, and you've got a controlling cord from their Ajna chakra to your Ajna Chakra, then it masks your discernment.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so you are going to have these aspects where you find yourself saying yes to things rather than when you want to say no.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's energetically, we've got the controlling cords in place.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Physically, I had team members in my business and in her business that were there, and then, of course, from a structural perspective, loving what I'm doing in my own business and wanting the disconnect between my business and hers so that we could do our own thing without worrying about people having a negative experience.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: That makes a lot of sense.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I I had the same experience where it was like I did felt compelled or like I had to keep going, even though it didn't make logical sense.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm curious too, because I think Robin and I we also shared my assistant for a long time also worked with her, which ended up I never shared this part, which ended up ending in a really fucked up way, actually, because of her.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: But that's another story.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: But were there any like things that happened because you guys shared a team that like were crossing lines or made you feel uncomfortable?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, what started to happen was my OBM started making lots of mistakes.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that if someone was good and then they become not good, as it were, in their role, it's likely stress is playing a part.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started to see my team getting very stressed out by what was happening in her business and how she was treating them.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: They did start to confide in me.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: It sounded like she was bullying them, and that felt very uncomfortable because I'm over here trying to support them in my role, but they are making mistakes because of the stress that they're experiencing.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that did have a direct impact on my business with creating stress for me to be picking up the pieces of things going wrong in terms of what the team were putting together.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I know that that was stress because of what was leaking over from their experience in her business.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: So then you signed on for a one-on-one container, and then what was that experience like?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: So during the one-to-one container, that's when my OBM came on board that had come from her.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where it started to feel very enmeshed.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I found myself we'd have the couple of calls a month, I had boxer access.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I am not using this boxer access at all, and then starting to make myself use it because I was like, I'm paying a huge amount of money to have this access.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it that I want to ask this person that is gonna help and contribute to my business?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: And along this side, to say that, of course, there are many moments where there would be contributions and helpful wisdom and insight, and many moments where there would be a firing of some team member, a firing of a client, and then you would get the it's pitched as behind the scenes.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sharing this with you so you can see what has happened, and this happens in business, and really it's slagging someone off because I didn't need to know that.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Subconsciously, what that does is, and it's like a coercive thing from an abuse perspective of if I leave, I'm gonna get bullied, I'm gonna get shamed, I'm gonna get her favorite thing, for what's a better way of putting this, would be saying that people are are copying her.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: That seemed to be the way her paranoia came out.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I know that if any one of us leaves, we're gonna be accused of copying her, and then she's gonna take away all your credibility within the community and all that kind of stuff.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing how that really feeds into any group trauma that you have as a as a as a child, past life experiences, all the things.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's it has a very big impact on you.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think more than you can consciously be aware of in terms of how you then perceive that and then how you show up as a result of that.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm chewing on a bone over here.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's the bone, Robin?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go back to something that you said a little while ago.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: You said you think she changed in 2020.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can we talk about that for a little bit?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that this is something that we haven't really gotten into in the longevity.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're somebody who, like me, has longevity, at least you came in in 2020.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, Louisa, from your perspective, what were a couple of markers of the change?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: How did you know that she had changed, in other words?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, was where in, and it would probably have been towards the end of 2020.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she had started doing a channeling membership where she was channeling information to do with the galactic stuff that's going on beyond what was happening on the physical plane and everyone experiencing the lockup and all that sort of stuff.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And her attention being very much focused on what was happening with the Freemasons and all that agenda.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Something that really jumps out at me, and and people who are listening may have found themselves on that webinar.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember what the webinar was called, but it was all focused around how to decode the matrix so you can outcreate it.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Which was the shittiest presentation I've ever seen in my whole life.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was, oh my god, for all the work she said she put into that thing, it was shit.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was energetically.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: I remember watching it thinking, oh my god, what is going on here?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because it just didn't sound like her.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Swearing more than normal.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: She did like a swear word, but more than more than normal.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: There it was, it just energetically felt very wrong and very paranoid.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things like if you're looking for something, you you'll find it.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if we go into the Akashic records with certain questions, we're going to get out answers in relation to those questions.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, what part of the Akashic record are you tapping into?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's all there, every thought, emotion, belief, absolutely everything there.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: All the conspiracies are in the Akashic Records.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't necessarily make them true, for want of a better phrase, although we know that often they do transpire to be true.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, I really recognize that I think was like this person is tapping into a lot of information, a lot of energetics, the Akashic records, all to do with the conspiracy agenda.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then it felt for me like the paranoia really started to amp up.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I started to notice.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the that webinar stayed with me.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: There was a lot, because I'm reflecting on that time too.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: And like I remember being at that or watching it or whatever, and I was like, whoa, okay, this is what we're doing now.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're like David Ikeing it over here.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't realize that.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Even though, in some ways, I knew that, like it was kind of like a shift.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then also I just was reflecting on too.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've been diving into all of this stuff for a very long time since I was like 20 years old.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think with a lot of the conspiracy type stuff, I feel like, well, uh, you get to a point and it's okay, what is this doing for me?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like to me, I would much rather be doing my work in the world that I feel like is going to make an impact to create a change.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me is a much better use of my energy.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one part that I just felt like, okay, what are we, where are we going with this?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then also the other thing for me too is a lot of the things she said, I didn't even necessarily resonate with.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I would be like, okay, why are there such a focus on this?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how is this helping?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I do really feel that it is important to understand just like the nature of our reality and some of the darker things that are going on on this planet because it's just important to understand like what we're up against here.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: But to be overly focused on it in a way that is not really productive, it wasn't getting us anywhere.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: And it certainly wasn't helping me with my business.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that is the piece that I was aware of in the moment, but don't think I had words for.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm super aware of it.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you have a lot of words for it.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'll try not too much.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I have a theory.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: What's the theory?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want to play out here.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I remember her saying around that time with the Freemasons or the controlling factions or whoever, the great they, whoever they are, she said that they have rules to their games.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the rules is that they have to tell us what they're doing.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: So she would say, Well, they tell you in movies what they're doing, and they tell you, and they do two truths and a lie.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there's all of these like things and patterns that she's telling us that they are doing.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that as I look back on all of the kind of breadcrumbs, I really think that that's what she was doing.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: She was telling us what she was doing.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's my theory.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: I can't prove it, but it does give me some pause to your point, Elise, about what good was it doing us?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: It may not have been.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: She may have just simply been engaging in the rules of the game and telling us what she was doing.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know how that lands for you guys.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope I don't sound like I'm, I guess I don't care how I sound.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I just that's how I that's what I'm thinking.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I think happened.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think that she was telling us everything she was doing.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about it and I agree with that.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the question, and I, and this is I think why you asked Louisa this is like, when did this shift happen?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And what exactly was it?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the thing that we've been trying to answer because especially you guys who were around her pre-2020, you definitely, and I've talked to a lot of you at this point, you're like, yeah, she was different.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the question is what happened?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if we can ever answer that, right?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: But there was a shift.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was from a benevolent person to not.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and who knows, right?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know how we answer that question.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: We can answer it behaviorally.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: We can answer if we were to go back and analyze old Facebook posts pre-2020 and post-2020.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I'm suggesting anybody do that.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying we could look at some of those things.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: We could look at the words that were coming out of her mouth, the topics that she was focusing on starting in 2020 with the pandemic and the elections and all of the things that she was talking about then.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then we can look at how we felt.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: We can look at our lived experiences during that time.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: There was so much upheaval in the world, and there was so much uncertainty that in some ways for me, I was watching her, and here she was so confident and so sure of herself about these things.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that felt pretty good to have somebody out there who I knew and who I trusted, who was saying things and making points that I had never thought of before in this time where everyone was questioning everything.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: I do think that I felt that way too, because it was a really like confusing time.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I had a lot of like personal conflicts within my marriage and just with family and all of that.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it was helpful to have somebody that was so convicted in what she thought.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: There was definitely that part of it.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much nuance to this, right?
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not like all bad.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not all good.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's just kind of like there's different parts to it.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're in it in that moment, of course, we are just experiencing what we're experiencing.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're all in different parts of the world, we're all dealing with different things going on in terms of whether you're locked up with your or whether you're being made to have an injection or not, and all of that's going on.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we're all in these little silos, having these different experiences in our own countries.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I look back, the communities that we had, and I believe the retreats pulled people together as groups, but I didn't feel that necessarily in the in the masterminds.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like we were still, we were a group, but we were in our own silos.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so we might not necessarily be we were in our own silos, but the center of the silo was Betty.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was the central hub.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: And even as leaders, we want to look at who are we taking advice from and who are we getting perspective from on our journey as well.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that for me at that time, we all hunkered down into as intuitives, as spiritually intelligent leaders, like what are we seeing that might be different from the popular conversations or the conversations that most people who maybe have a different perspective than we have.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was nice to have a small group, but then there we go, right?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's the small group, there's the inner circle that feels very collaborative and feels very protective, and yet has some obviously nefarious things going on as well.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: So let's keep moving forward then.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you start working with her one on one, you have it, you share a team, all of this, and then maybe just take us through because I think now at this point it's kind of like okay, there's some quote unquote red flags or things that you Don't like, but it's obviously not enough for you to walk away from the situation.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did it start to escalate for you?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: After that first year of working privately with her, I didn't renew, but of course, because of being an Akashic record teacher, still in the community, there was so still contributing to the development of how are we going to who's the right people to come in as teachers, who are the right people to come in and learn the records, how do we set standards in relation to that?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I was still working not closely, but still involved, if that makes sense.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: And what I started to see as the retreats ramped up, because I didn't go on the retreats, and I think the first one I did really want to go to, and it was just logistics, because at that point I was living in the UK and I'm in America now, but America was very far away.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: My sons at that point weren't adults, so they're still needing me around, all that sort of stuff.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't manage to go on that first retreat, which I did really want to go to.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was in 2019.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other ones, whilst I was invited to go, I I just felt no, and I did say no, and logistics was a great reason to not go.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you didn't get any backlash for saying no?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not that hurt me, if that makes sense.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's FOMO, isn't it?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: You really want to go because I wanted to hang out with you and and and Robin.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what I felt was FOMO rather than any backlash, I would say.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the last one I couldn't go to because I was in Thailand, I was prioritizing my sons.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: But at that point, like I didn't want to go because I was like, this just doesn't feel aligned.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, and it's one of those things.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is a human being that ultimately hurt people, hurt people.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I was thinking that there is psychosis here, a spiritual psychosis, what are these different layers that are going on?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd have conversations in Voxer, and and so being friendly with her and supportive where I can, because we've still got that connection with the teachers.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I found myself going, okay, I want to leave, but I know if I leave, I'm gonna get slagged off.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I was living in the energy of question of how can I leave in an elegant way?
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it was in whenever it was, must be January 2024, where I got a voxer from her saying, let's co-create the way forward because I'm not gonna teach the Akashics records anymore.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you I want you to bring under your umbrella, and so will grandfather over the teachers to you, anyone who wants to come.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Thank you, universe.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: That is a beautiful co-creation, and feels very aligned, more than I could have hoped for.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when when we say grandfathered over, there weren't very many people left, to be honest, at that stage.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that sounds like a bigger thing than it than it was, but beautiful because I've been able to I love teaching Akashic Records.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've been able to bring it under my wing and to leave in an elegant way.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that felt felt really good.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there wasn't a great big kind of bust up or anything like that from my perspective.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: The relationship was complete.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: When you saw other people like going on the retreats, like the ones the San Diego and Santa Fe, and then ultimately like Croatia, what was your take on what was happening there?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: I've been on spiritual retreats before, and I know that everything can get really heightened.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got very intuitive people coming together, you're very open, you're very susceptible, all sorts of vortexes and portals can open up for experiences to happen.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it did seem that people would come back and talk about how various people were starting to channel, etc.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the one that jumped out at me, I'm trying just to kind of remember them chronologically, it was obviously the last one, the Croatia one, where I was so concerned with what people were saying of the experiences that they had had.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: That is when I did email my community to say that I'm no longer associated with Betty, because I was like, this has I've got to draw a line underneath this.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot have people think that I'm recommending her just because of an association.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember having that conversation.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: It might have even been with the three of us, I'm not sure.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: But there was a conversation around what to do about the communities.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think that's it, is we're all in a leadership position.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is why this conversation is so important, because I know there's going to be people that were affected that we don't know about that are sitting there dealing with it all on their own.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope that these conversations reach their ears so that they can start to make sense of it, process it, and realize that what they felt in their body was true.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Something for me that we used to say this was our message for when I was leading with social services and creating campaigns to help raise awareness around domestic abuse and sexual abuse was because we recognized that if we were putting posters up on the door saying, if you're a victim of abuse, you know how you get those posters on the back of the toilet door and pubs.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a victim of abuse, call this number.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: People don't go, oh, I'm a victim of abuse.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: You say this weird thing's happening.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't quite kind of face it.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we always used to say, if it feels wrong, it is.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: If it feels wrong, it probably is, so that you can really trust your discernment in your body.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I hope people really take away from our conversations is that our hindsight can be people's foresight for them to go, yeah, if it's feeling wrong, I don't care if I can't join up all the dots and answer this question.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna trust my discernment and take action from that.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really important because if anyone's listening who's in a coaching position, you are a leader, you're in a leadership position, and so we need to help people be informed around these different dynamics of what abusive relationships can look like.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, they don't all start off as abusive, it can evolve sneakily over time, and before you know it, it's blown up into something that you're like, how did we get here?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: How did we get here?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you weren't on the Croatia retreat or the Santa Fe or any of them, but for me, and from where I'm sitting, you were one of the anchors who assisted, especially me, on the other end of the Croatia retreat.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was wanting you to, from your perspective, as we're returning from Croatia and the news was coming out that it was a giant shit show.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: What was your like immediate objective perspective on that?
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: What did you see was happening?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: And can you go into that for a little bit?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: My initial conversations were with you, and I was so concerned from the impact psychologically, spiritually, emotionally on your personal life, on the relationships that everybody was having, because it wasn't just impact on you, it was everybody and people that I have known for years or known of for years through the various communities, seeing that everybody had been impacted in this way.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so concerned because I was like, this is absolute madness, and madness in the sense of like, how can a leader take people on a spiritual retreat, not feed them, create this heightened state of emotion and just install paranoia into everybody and to think that that's okay, if that makes sense, and to assume that everyone's gonna come back once they've come out of that vortex, and because you're gonna get that perspective, that hindsight aren't you when you get home and you go, Oh, this happened.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: What the hell was that?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it was an a this has got to an emergency situation in the sense of we need to cut energetic ties, make sure that we've revoked access to our consciousness, all those kinds of things, that really good energy hygiene to make sure that we're not having any influence from this, whatever has happened to her, so that it's not contributing and that energy isn't leaking into people's businesses or into their family relationships and so on.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mostly spoke to you after the retreat.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: There was one other lady that I spoke to, I don't think went to the retreat, but had also heard about things that had gone on and had severed contact as well.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she'd been in her world for 20 years.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, like all these leaders that are going, nope, this is time to sever contact.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is ultimately getting dangerous in terms of having someone contributing to your consciousness in that way.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if she's still doing her thing or what's happened.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: I hope she gets the help that she needs.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that thing, when someone's in that place, they don't think there's anything wrong with them.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's possibly unlikely.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you just make sense of what happened?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like that's the biggest question that we've been trying to answer is like what what happened here?
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like as we kind of look at the progression of all of this and like where it started to like where it is, what is the way that you make sense of it in your brain?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: The way I make sense of it in my brain is that I believe there were some narcissistic traits that I didn't see initially that started to escalate alongside 2020 being the key thing for me, alongside where her focus was really and her tension and her intention were all on the conspiracy theories and tapping into that whole avenue on what are you allowing into your field as your attention is on so much of that, almost like an obsession in relation to that.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it the only way I can make sense of it is that what evolved was an increase in.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a clinical psychologist, so this is my personal perspective, but an evolution of narcissistic traits, an evolution of a spiritual psychosis of some form.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think so often people are saying this high being coming in, and that's therefore I'm gonna give all my power away to you.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, that like mania, that frequency that we all felt felt really good, really high.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the stuff that was coming out of her mouth, not truth, love, and those pure frequencies of divinity.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's when anywhere we've got that cognitive dissonance.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: My learning that I wish people to take forward is to listen to that and use it as a signal.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: What is true for me?
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: Does this feel like this is divine guidance, or actually someone is projecting their stuff onto me after their own break in their consciousness?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: As I've studied the profiles of cult leaders, one of the there are several characteristics that stand out.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: One is the narcissism, the other is identifying as an ascended being or somebody who knows everything, or somebody who has these additional powers that are beyond mere human form.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I look at that and I just didn't put all the pieces together, of course, while I was in it.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_01: It took me being on the other side of it to be able to really see and study this type of personality.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was having a conversation with Barb recently.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Barb is very rational about how she talks about these things.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I had used this word, now we were talking about her, and she said, It sounds like you're asking the question, it sounds like you're trying to give a moral diagnosis.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is she evil?
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she tracked me through that process of her decision making around can you assess somebody as evil from a moral diagnosis, not from a spiritual label, I'll say.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when we look at the, I will say that there was definitely that that flavor involved in what was going on, particularly toward the end.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: There was divisiveness and deviousness and anger and hostility and all of the things that we would associate with somebody who is morally evil, if we're looking at that polarity of good versus evil from a moral perspective.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: What do you guys think about that?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's a strong word, that evil.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I know.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having I know as I was saying it, I'm like, fuck, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think it's worth a conversation because we have that's in the field as well.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do we understand what happened?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for bringing forward that information around the cult leader, because that is on the cusp of creating a cult, is exactly what was what was happening.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I I remember, I think what's so jarring, I think, to certainly my consciousness is recognizing the the person that I once knew, now this person that is now become beyond recognizable, and the manipulation and the hypnosis that's the word that I would use to control people, and recognizing that that high-level frequency is hypnotic for people.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's more that goes on energetically than we can know consciously.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then to see that as recognizing that that is evil in terms of not allowing people to retain their sovereignty over their own consciousness.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I consider this alongside what we have seen and transpired with other cult leaders, it's very sobering in terms of seeing where this, the potential trajectory that this had, when we reflect back on your your experience and the in the retreats of that feels like where that was really creating a cult, as you have shared those qualities and characteristics and thinking about what you experienced in Croatia.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's very alarming.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I don't know what another word is for other than evil.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: I guess evil feels intentional.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the bit I don't think I don't know if I can answer or not, around consciously, intentionally being evil or consciously, intentionally manipulating somebody that's well.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_02: Which was do you think that this was consciously like premeditated, or did it just kind of like happen?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: And my answer to that was I don't think it was like consciously premeditated in the sense of, okay, I'm this is my business plan for this whole thing.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think that a lot of times, and what I notice for people when they haven't dealt with their stuff as a trauma expert is people have unconscious motivations.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: So they have reasons why they're motivated to do something to create an outcome that they desire that they might not be fully aware of or admitting within themselves that they are doing that or acting in that way.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that to me, that's how I saw it is like it wasn't a pre-conceived of plan, but I think that as things progressed, it ended up being that way because the motivations were coming from a place that was like unacknowledged and just continued to get darker and darker.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want to bring forward a different angle on this, the dark tetrad personality.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to read those four elements of the dark tetrad.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: This has been something that has been researched in psychology for I think they started with the dark triad and now they've expanded it to four.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: So there's narcissism, which is a sense of superiority, entitlement, and grandiosity.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: Machiavelliism, which is a tendency to manipulate others to achieve personal goals, psychopathy, a lack of empathy, callousness, and impulsive behavior.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last one is sadism, enjoyment of inflicting pain or humiliation on others.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: We understand about personality that it runs on a spectrum.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not an all or nothing, and it's not an either or.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: But when I read those for what occurred to you guys about I could tick those qualities off as you were saying them, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: Those are characteristics that I would recognize within Betty, which is quite sobering to reflect on that.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is very sobering.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: Same, especially like as things evolved.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the the hard thing about it is when something evolved was like the thing they say about the boiling the frogs, like it's it's that type of thing because you don't really see it.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the crazy thing to me too is like I stood next to some of the most powerful women.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: And in that space, it was like they didn't have their power.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing that I keep like reflecting on too.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: Cause when I look at everybody individually, I'm like, whoa, these are really powerful people.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of them wouldn't be someone I would necessarily think would have trouble speaking their mind or exerting their power.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: And in those spaces, they did.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a thing that is like really interesting to me.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: This also occurs to me after I returned from Croatia.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: I had a conversation with one of my colleagues who had a family member who was, I think, had a bipolar diagnosis and had bouts of extreme mania.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys remember like I have a PhD in psychology, counseling psychology, vocational psychology is my area of study.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I'm clinically trained, but I worked with garden variety, anxiety, depression, college students who had broken up with their boyfriends and that kind of thing.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew enough to be able to refer out when there was something bigger going on.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I've never been in a situation with full-blown mania.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: And most of us haven't, but I just want to preface this by saying when I was sharing this about my story, one of the things that she said to me is she mental illness can really sneak up on you.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: And she couldn't say for sure either.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: But when we get into these spectrumy things around personality and mental disorders and things like that, it's it goes to this isn't just about Betty at this point.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: We all have Betty's in our lives, but this is about the personality traits.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is about the mental well-being of people in the community and how there are some who, especially with that dark tetrad, who are absolutely not going to admit to any kind of mental disorder, any sort of problem.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, that was one of the things that stands out for me as I'm talking about it now, that from the get after Santa Fe, she was very emphatic that there is nothing wrong with me and don't ever come at me with any kind of diagnosis ever.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I am not working with anybody who wants to fix me because there is nothing that needs to be fixed.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the other thing that was really wild looking back, is how she recruited all of us, namely you, as the front runner, but then all of us to back up the story that this is not a mental illness.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: That was really interesting.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's okay, if it's not a mental illness, I don't go around telling people I don't have a mental illness.
• 1:03:18
  unknown: You know what I mean?
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like so wide go around telling people you don't have a mental illness like that.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Defending perspective.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually, it's interesting.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: My husband has a friend who had been sober for a long, long time and was doing good work in the community.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was talking to Michael the other day, and he said, Look at this email from this person.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked at it was like this rant.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, either he's having a manic episode or he's on something.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, which is it?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it turned out that there's one of those two things that's going on behind the scenes.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are markers for that.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: But he's another one who you can't hosting an intervention for somebody like that is not necessarily effective because they think that they are just fine.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes it so hard, isn't it, to help people in these situations.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where these conversations are going to be so helpful because ultimately we can only help ourselves, remove ourselves from anywhere that we are experiencing something that's like this.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: This feels like this is going into a into a cult, or however the person is recognizing where the cognitive dissonance is and that someone is being abusive.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that moment that we start to recognize it to be able to take ourselves out safely.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this goes beyond the the spiritual mentoring dynamic, of course, because abusive relationships show up in any dynamic.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's for me, as I reflect back on this, I'm like, it's shown up in our relationship with us a spiritual mentor.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, people can be listening and they'll be recognizing this in dynamics with a husband or a wife or children or whatever.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing I think too is that we've talked about Elise, you and I have talked about how we feel dumb.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I do like when I look at this and I have this conversation with you, there's part of me, let's talk.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I missed so much, and I don't want to be hard on myself either because I could only see what I could see.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: But and who knows why I missed everything that I missed.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I just I do, I feel a little bit like I I failed the final.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that for me is where the anger comes in too.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because even though it feels like my anger is at her, and in some ways it is, I think it's also like at myself for not being able to see fully what was going on and just continuing to make decisions that were not in my highest good or weren't coming from my power.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, I've learned a lot from that.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I do see how it's reflective of just certain family dynamics and the way that I orient.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oriented towards relationships growing up with my parents.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: I get that.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, yeah, I think that there's always this piece of just like, how did I allow this to go on for as long as I did?
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because yeah, it is, it does feel embarrassing.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know?
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that aspect this is true for anyone who's been in an abusive relationship.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: That record when the penny drops, for want of a better phrase, and we start to go, hang on, how do I extract myself from this relationship?
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that is very difficult because, of course, you've invested a lot in that relationship.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: And with that core belief that people are good and all of that kind of stuff, is wanting things to resolve and to be able to for the relationship to go back to what it was.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's just important to recognize talk.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there are others as well that are feeling like, why didn't I do this sooner?
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not until I didn't start connecting the patterns until Robin and I started talking and were like, Oh, that happened to you as well, and me.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: And oh my word, let's start.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the more we unpack it, the more we realize how big this is.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's like, oh my God, this is much bigger than we thought.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_01: It reminds me of that the story of the blindfolded men who are placed in front of something, and one guy is, you know, says, Well, it's a stump, and another guy says it's a snake, and another guy says it's a wing, and then it turns out it's an elephant.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: We each had pieces of the story.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: We each have pieces of the story.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't have the whole picture.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: We couldn't see the whole of it, the gestalt.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that one of the gifts of this series is that even now we still don't have the gestalt.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I want to just say one more thing about my background is underplayed, just to make the point of I've never been with somebody in a full-blown any kind of severe mental illness.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, being trained clinically, the trauma therapy and the anxiety and depression and that kind of thing is my wheelhouse.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: But most of us clinically aren't trained to identify these big events like that.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: And especially not when you're not expected to be in the professional capacity as a clinician, and you are a client, and you are sleep deprived and stressed, and and and and as a counselor who worked with serious trauma for many, many years, and I have seen kids who are suicidal.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen parents who are off their rocker, who are having a mental breakdown.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've seen a lot of crazy shit, but I was in my position as a counselor.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I was holding that energy and I was able to hold space for that, not only because of my training, but also because that was the position I was in at the time.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I was playing that role.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's very different when you're supposed to be playing the role of a client and all of the stuff is going on, you're not thinking of it that way.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: The perspective completely changes.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to be for myself gentle because I think I probably sounded a little bit harder and more critical of myself than perhaps was warranted.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: But nonetheless, it's sort of that.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have just that, I suppose, that embarrassment.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think maybe we all have that to some degree, like we miss so much, and also knowing that we couldn't see the whole of it, and we still can't, and we may never be able to.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the bittersweetness of the hindsight as we start to see that oh, you've got the snake and you've got the leg, and we're bringing this pattern together, and it was bigger than what we thought.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: For me, one of the aspects as I look back is that it feels a little bit like at various points, certainly my behavior.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: When I look back, I remember coming onto one of the new trainings that she was providing in relation to the Akashic Records, and I felt like in that session, it was a bit like that story of the Emperor's new clothes, where the Emperor's walking down the streets and he thinks he's wearing clothes, and everyone's thinking he's wearing clothes because that's what everyone's saying that he's wearing clothes, but he's not got any clothes on, and no one's saying, Hey, you've got no clothes on, because of that group format.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: What's the word that I'm looking for?
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: When that group think that happens, isn't that we know that that happens when people come together in a group?
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if everyone's saying the emperor's got clothes on, then it's oh, the emperor's got clothes on.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I better, how can I see that the emperor's got clothes on, but I can't see that they are there?
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: We then start to doubt and question ourselves because everybody else is saying the emperor's wearing clothes.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that group think played into it for people as well, where our discernment may be saying one thing, but then we're looking at everybody else who's smiling and this is saying this is amazing, this mania is feeling fantastic, and saying that the emperor is wearing clothes where we're feeling within perhaps we're not.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that resonates, but that's certainly my reflection.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is that's what that felt like in my body?
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like everyone else is saying one thing, and if I go against the group, then I'm saying that the emperor hasn't got any clothes on, and everyone's gonna be thinking, What are you talking about?
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: But as it's transpiring, then actually everybody was thinking the same thing at various points.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's come out that people were having their own questions.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Do you mean in what she was saying in the training and it just being really not resident, or what was that?
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I think I came on that training to because my whole body was going, What is going on?
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: This feels completely wrong.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And let's see what's going on.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm one of the Akashic Record teachers, what's being taught, etc.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sitting in that training, and everybody is smiling and giving over their power and saying, Isn't this amazing?
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like thinking, This is not, I'm not gonna be part of this at all.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: But no one was saying that.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't saying that.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, it's not my role in that because I'm there as receiving the training in relation to that.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember that analogy coming to mind of this feels like the Emperor's new clothes.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody is saying that this something's wrong here, even just from knowing the old stuff she taught versus what was happening in that training.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_02: What was it?
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So she was undoing all of her training that she had done before.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_00: She was saying it's all a load of shit, basically.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that's it's not a load of shit.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_00: You're literally just saying that the last 20 years of everything you've been believing and teaching is is is not the right way forward to evolve your soul and that way.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's just reminded me of something.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember when Doreen Virtue did that?
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember she wants all of her names out of all of her card decks and completely renounced everything that she had done previously?
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It just occurred to me.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting awareness that I'm having.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I remember one of the things that stood out for me is that she said that the chakra system was nonsense.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_01: The chakra system did not exist, or that it was a distortion.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: She said everything was a distortion.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_01: We know that there are distortions in, but there was this throw everything out.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_01: We have to have a whole new system and how the energy comes through the channel, and what are the ports for the channel, and things like that that I had never heard of before, which was interesting because you know me, I'm always wanting to learn the next thing.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_01: But also the thing that stood out for me is how the throwing all of the previous teachings out the window.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, which is an incredible thing to experience and witness someone to do, and also creates that cognitive dissonance because if you've been implementing that system and you know it works, etc., then you're like, hang on a second, what's going on?
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think the effect is very gaslighting, and then that creates that element of doubt.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Can you trust yourself?
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: What the hell do you believe now when you've got the founder, the teacher, saying it's all a load of baloney and that chakras don't exist and all that sort of stuff?
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Only like how many billion Indian people are on the planet to say otherwise, for example.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_01: But that happened, I think, Louisa, at the beginning of 2024.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then at what point did she give you the system?
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because how did that?
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wondered how that felt after her basically saying it was all nonsense.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was so glad.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like I was the steward to take this work forward because it is beautiful work.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've trained over 70 people in it.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've evolved it since it was handed over to me, of course, and I'll continue to do so.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I remember after the conversation, I had to go for a walk on the on the beach.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I was in Barcelona.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I forget.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_00: I saw my sorry, I've been traveling around the world.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember having to go and absorb it and go, okay, this feels really this is what I've been asking for.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_00: How can I leave in an elegant way?
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I want to carry on teaching the Akashic Records.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to have anything to do with the direction that the that company was was going in.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that wasn't my path.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I felt very grateful and honored and sad because of knowing that the person that before whatever happened would never have done that.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_00: And my duty to to take this work forward and to continue to contribute to people so that they can benefit from the legacy as we evolve it and improve on things and to continue to do so.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_00: I felt a real mixed bag of emotions and now so grateful to be able to continue the work because it's it's it's incredible.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that one of the things I felt was important to speak about this is so many people who have been trained in that modality and recognize that where their lineage is, is to feel clear in moving forward with it and being able to take it forward and not to feel that it is tainted in some way or however.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_00: This was pure work from the divine, that your intention when you're connecting in with the Akashic Records, that's the most important thing.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: And to be able to bring forward the skills that you've learned from the training, whether you've learnt it from myself or another another teacher, as ever, take what resonates and leave the rest because you've got sovereignty over your own consciousness.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think as leaders and teachers, there are some beautiful messages right from the early days that we can continue to take forward on our journey.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Earlier, we're saying, like, don't throw the whole baby out with the with the bathwater.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_00: What is it for us to discern and take forward moving moving forward?
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what is it?
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that was a line in the sand that that behavior is not okay.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're leaving that behind.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's so beautiful and soothing, Louisa.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for speaking that truth.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you for sharing all of this.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_02: And is there anything else that you want to just say, just as far as like your own journey and healing and like reflecting on all of this?
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so grateful for this conversation that's opening up and for people coming together to be able to put the jigsaw puzzle together.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, as I recognize that what started off as a beautiful mentoring relationship, then turned into a toxic relationship, an abusive relationship was what I was witnessing as well.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a reflection that these patterns of abuse can show up in any relationship.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I just for me, I just really want people to walk away with that message of if it feels wrong, it probably is.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Take care of yourself and get out and seek the support and speak to people.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know, that image of the emperor's new clothes is if it feels wrong, it probably is.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Someone else is probably thinking the emperor is walking around naked as you are too.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's keep talking and open up the conversation so that we're not having these silos, because that's where they retain their control and power over you if we're not opening up the conversation to go, of course, light bulb moment.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, the fastest way for things to not change, for things to stay the same, is to not talk about it.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm grateful for these conversations.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that they're edgy and I feel a little bit like I can't believe I'm saying this stuff out loud, but it has to be said.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be said.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're not going to say it, who is?
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And my thought is that I'm hoping that this continues to open up conversations for others as well, with us and within your own circles and communities about this topic.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, same.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it feels so good to just say it because it was something that I felt like I was holding back for so long that it started to feel wrong.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, it just feels so good to just name everything because I hate when there's like things going on underneath the surface that we're skirting around.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that just feels so uncomfortable to me.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so grateful for this as well.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you, Louisa, for being here and for sharing everything that you did.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see everybody on the next episode.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:18:59
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• 1:19:02
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• 1:19:06
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• 1:19:14
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• 1:19:19
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• 1:19:23
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