Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Missing Teen Girl's Body dug up at Serial Killer's 'House Of Horrors' ID'ed as Theresa Fillingim

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Missing Teen Girl's Body dug up at Serial Killer's 'House Of Horrors' ID'ed as Theresa Fillingim · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Little did we know the
0:15
Speaker 1: investigation into a missing teen would uncover literally a graveyard,
0:23
Speaker 1: a burial ground. I mean, Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.
0:27
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
0:30
Speaker 1: and Serious X one eleven. First of all, take a
0:33
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at wi Ink. Margaret John's describes
0:38
Speaker 1: her younger sister, Teresa as your typical teenager. I said, well,
0:42
Speaker 1: you're going to get a job, You're going to tell
0:44
Speaker 1: the line, and she promised that she was because she
0:47
Speaker 1: wanted to be with her sister. And after a couple
0:49
Speaker 1: of job interviews, Teresa never came home. That was it.
0:54
Speaker 1: I never heard from her again. Wow. Okay, maybe that
0:57
Speaker 1: was a different time in a different place. But to
1:01
Speaker 1: send a teen girl out on her own for an interview,
1:06
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm afraid to let Lucy even walk around
1:08
Speaker 1: the blot by herself, for Pete's sake. Much let's go
1:12
Speaker 1: on interviews alone. I mean maybe if you drove her there,
1:17
Speaker 1: so let's just pretend Chick Filo or Burger King and
1:20
Speaker 1: watched her walk in and then waited for her to
1:23
Speaker 1: come out. Yes, I could see that, but to just
1:26
Speaker 1: send her out the door for a job interview, for
1:30
Speaker 1: a series of job interviews. I'm stunned about that. I'm
1:37
Speaker 1: not stunned that this teen girl, Teresa filling Jim never
1:43
Speaker 1: came home. What happened to Teresa? Just a full of life,
1:50
Speaker 1: a lovely young girl. When you look at her pictures
1:54
Speaker 1: of her smile, it looks like she's just about to
1:57
Speaker 1: break into laughter. You see it coming out of her eyes.
2:01
Speaker 1: How does a teen girl just disappear and you never
2:04
Speaker 1: hear from them again again? I may see grace. This
2:08
Speaker 1: is crime story. Thank you for being with us, joining
2:11
Speaker 1: me an all star panel. But first I want to
2:13
Speaker 1: go to special guests joining us from Oxygen dot Com.
2:16
Speaker 1: It's Jack Miller and she's a truth prime author of
2:19
Speaker 1: Hell and the Heartland, Murder Meth and the Case of
2:23
Speaker 1: Two Missing Girls. That doesn't sound good, of course, I'll
2:27
Speaker 1: have to read it from front to back. Hell and
2:32
Speaker 1: the Heartland, Murder, Meth and the Case of Two Missing Girls. Okay,
2:36
Speaker 1: you got me at Murder Meth and Two Missing Girls.
2:39
Speaker 1: Jacks Miller, thank you for being with us. I want
2:42
Speaker 1: to talk about the disappearance of this girl, Teresa Fillingen,
2:47
Speaker 1: teen girl just seven to barely seventeen years old when
2:51
Speaker 1: she walks out the door of her sister's home to
2:54
Speaker 1: go on a job interview. What do we know about
2:57
Speaker 1: her disappearance? You know, that's the thing they're really he
3:00
Speaker 1: wasn't too many details out there, you know, I know
3:03
Speaker 1: her her parents had looked for her. Her father was
3:06
Speaker 1: an Alaskan States trooper. I read and spent many years
3:09
Speaker 1: looking for her. But she just suddenly vanished. You know, nobody,
3:12
Speaker 1: nobody knew what happened. Where she a runaway? Did someone
3:15
Speaker 1: take her? You know, no one had these answers back then.
3:18
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just thinking this through. Knowing that her
3:21
Speaker 1: father was in law enforcement. I bet he did a
3:25
Speaker 1: thorough search. But the reality to Paul Zike joining me
3:29
Speaker 1: foreign police commander in Albuquerque and author stop him from
3:35
Speaker 1: killing them on Amazon Kendall Paul, the search methods that
3:40
Speaker 1: were in place at the time Teresa Fillingsen went missing
3:44
Speaker 1: or a far cry from what is in place now. Explain, Well,
3:48
Speaker 1: you know, back then, it just involved getting as many
3:51
Speaker 1: people as you could get together and combing, you know, woods,
3:55
Speaker 1: walking together, you know, making sure you mark places that
3:59
Speaker 1: you're sing, you know, maybe a helicopter flying over, but
4:04
Speaker 1: certainly not the technology that can be employed today utilizing
4:09
Speaker 1: cell phone data and GPS coordinates and all these other things.
4:14
Speaker 1: So they were definitely hindered forty years ago as well
4:17
Speaker 1: as Stacey was going to this job interview. Let's just pretend.
4:21
Speaker 1: Let's just pretend it's McDonald's. Did they have video surveillance?
4:26
Speaker 1: They do now. I mean every square inches at the
4:28
Speaker 1: bathroom and McDonald's is covered in video surveillance. Thank Heaven,
4:33
Speaker 1: is there that is their surveillance video at red lights,
4:37
Speaker 1: red light cams in Florida, there are tons of tolls.
4:43
Speaker 1: You can't go anywhere without paying a toll. Now, when
4:48
Speaker 1: you think that through, it would be fairly easy to
4:51
Speaker 1: get video from those toll bridges, right or tolls stops
4:55
Speaker 1: not then what about it, Paul, Yeah, Well you're absolutely right, Nancy.
5:00
Speaker 1: The technology that we employ today, I mean, we even
5:03
Speaker 1: have real time prime centers or hubs for this type
5:06
Speaker 1: of information. It allows them to piece together the movement,
5:11
Speaker 1: where somebody went next, and who they were with. That's
5:15
Speaker 1: the big thing. I mean, in all the homicide cases
5:18
Speaker 1: I've worked, if you find if there's a dead female
5:21
Speaker 1: or missing female, you need to find who she was
5:24
Speaker 1: with last and it's specifically what male and some of
5:28
Speaker 1: that technology could have provided that back then. I mean,
5:31
Speaker 1: and now you immediately have an Amber alert go out
5:34
Speaker 1: if there is a car involved. It goes on too.
5:38
Speaker 1: I mean at crime Online, we send out immediately when
5:40
Speaker 1: we hear about a missing person or a missing child.
5:43
Speaker 1: I mean within minutes of the Amber alert going out.
5:46
Speaker 1: It's out there on the media. Let's talk about the
5:49
Speaker 1: area to Jackson Miller joining us from Oxygen dot com.
5:53
Speaker 1: What can you tell me about spring Hill, Florida. So
5:55
Speaker 1: it's in central Florida, more to the west. It's not
5:58
Speaker 1: far from her now newbie to Hernando County. And you
6:02
Speaker 1: know it's known for its natural springs. It's a nice
6:04
Speaker 1: area by all accounts. It's it's a nice sunny area
6:08
Speaker 1: in Florida. You know, It's what I'm really interested in.
6:12
Speaker 1: Right there, Del Carson joining me not only high profile
6:15
Speaker 1: lawyer joining us out off Florida near where this incident occurred,
6:20
Speaker 1: but also former fed with the FBI as an Asian
6:24
Speaker 1: author of arrest Proof Yourself and you can find him
6:27
Speaker 1: at del Carson Law dot com. Another thing about spring Hills, Florida,
6:32
Speaker 1: very low population in comparison, a little over one hundred
6:37
Speaker 1: thousand people living there. Now, that's bigger than where I
6:42
Speaker 1: grew up in rural bib County. It's not even part
6:45
Speaker 1: of a city. That greatly changes the search for this
6:50
Speaker 1: missing team girl, del Carson Agree or disagree? No, No,
6:53
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree, Nancy. When you have a low population density,
6:59
Speaker 1: there are a couple of reasons for that. One of
7:01
Speaker 1: them is, obviously people don't want to be on top
7:04
Speaker 1: of one another in subdivisions. So the result is that
7:07
Speaker 1: things are spread out and you can have compounds and
7:10
Speaker 1: areas where you put up no tresspassing signs and you
7:14
Speaker 1: don't allow other people to come. With that low of
7:17
Speaker 1: a population, you would think it would reduce the suspect pool.
7:21
Speaker 1: What about it? Paul's like, absolutely agree with you. You
7:25
Speaker 1: know you're going to have The more you can spread
7:27
Speaker 1: things out, the more search area that you have to cover,
7:31
Speaker 1: the less likely it is that you're going to find
7:34
Speaker 1: the individual, especially close to when the event occurred. Okay,
7:38
Speaker 1: another thing about spring Hill, Florida is it's got a
7:42
Speaker 1: very low crime rate and it's interesting. Scott Johnson joining
7:47
Speaker 1: me forensic psychologist joinings out of Minnesota thirty two years
7:53
Speaker 1: in Connecting Crime with Psychology. He's the author of Physical
7:58
Speaker 1: Abusers and Sex Offenders. You can find him at Forensic
8:01
Speaker 1: Consultation dot org. Scott people move to places like spring Hill,
8:07
Speaker 1: Florida to get away from crime, and then Teresa goes missing.
8:11
Speaker 1: There's really no place safe from crime. Well no, and
8:15
Speaker 1: especially with the psychopath who's smart enough to stay under
8:19
Speaker 1: the radar. People just don't see the evil. They're you know,
8:23
Speaker 1: so glib and superficial, charming and all of that that
8:27
Speaker 1: when they move around, people just would never suspect them,
8:30
Speaker 1: nor w they likely have identified that person asted you know,
8:34
Speaker 1: being in the area. Now, I've actually been to this
8:38
Speaker 1: area before, because who hasn't been to weeki Wachi. That's
8:42
Speaker 1: where you see real mermaids. And when my daughter was
8:46
Speaker 1: completely into Throes of Aeriel. In case you don't know
8:50
Speaker 1: she's a mermaid, I'm not going to be a total spoiler,
8:53
Speaker 1: but let's just say it has a happy ending. A
8:57
Speaker 1: mermaid that always wanted to be able to walk and run.
9:02
Speaker 1: She was all about mermaids. And there's a week you
9:04
Speaker 1: Watchee where you go in and you see a live
9:08
Speaker 1: mermaid show. Can I tell you how many times we
9:10
Speaker 1: saw that show. That is how I know about this
9:14
Speaker 1: area because of the close proximity, and it's that the
9:17
Speaker 1: area is stunning, but it is very I don't want
9:23
Speaker 1: to say rural, because rural conjures up farms and cows.
9:28
Speaker 1: This is more like a wild jungle, very dense, densely
9:34
Speaker 1: wooded palmetto trees and live oaks as you drive along
9:39
Speaker 1: the road. I mean, if somebody we're out and those
9:43
Speaker 1: live oaks and those trees, it would be very difficult
9:47
Speaker 1: to find them, and to you, doctor Michelle dupre joining
9:50
Speaker 1: US former forensic pathologists, medical examiner and detective, also the
9:55
Speaker 1: author of homicide Investigation Field Guy, Doctor Dupree, if she
10:01
Speaker 1: were out in that dense forestation, there may very well
10:06
Speaker 1: be nothing left of her to identify and a matter
10:09
Speaker 1: of months. Nancy, that very well maybe true. As you know,
10:12
Speaker 1: body decomposition is going to depend on the environment, and
10:15
Speaker 1: the longer the person is out there, the harder it's
10:17
Speaker 1: going to be. The heat, the climate. As you just
10:21
Speaker 1: heard Jack S. Miller state, people go there for the
10:23
Speaker 1: sunny weather. When I hear sunny weather, I think of
10:27
Speaker 1: rapid decomposition. Okay, that's just me crime stories with Nancy Grace.
10:47
Speaker 1: But right now, we've got a missing girl, Teresa Fillingen.
10:52
Speaker 1: She goes on an interview. She moves in with her
10:54
Speaker 1: sister in Florida. The sister says, hey, you got to
10:56
Speaker 1: get a job. She's fine with that. She heads out
11:00
Speaker 1: on a job interview, and she's never seen again. Now
11:04
Speaker 1: take a list to our friends at WTSPA ten Tampa.
11:07
Speaker 1: Her sister reported her missing to Tampa. Please back on
11:10
Speaker 1: May sixteenth. It was right before her seventeenth birthday. Well,
11:14
Speaker 1: I'm confident that on that day she was already abducted
11:18
Speaker 1: and then murdered. This is a photo of Teresa Caroline Fillingham,
11:22
Speaker 1: taken one year before she disappeared from Tampa. But the
11:26
Speaker 1: only reason I'm doing this is because I don't want
11:29
Speaker 1: people to lose hope. You know. I find that really interesting.
11:34
Speaker 1: Everybody on the panel, jump in when you're ready. Because
11:38
Speaker 1: statistics show that when someone is kidnapped, especially a child,
11:43
Speaker 1: which is anybody under eighteen. In this case, she was
11:46
Speaker 1: actually still sixteen. I just realized this because this was
11:49
Speaker 1: right before her seventeenth birthday. Statistics show when someone is
11:55
Speaker 1: abducted and they are ultimately killed. They are killed within
11:59
Speaker 1: the first seventy two hours after the abduction, So although
12:06
Speaker 1: the family didn't want to hear it at the time,
12:08
Speaker 1: by the time the search got underway, there was a
12:12
Speaker 1: strong likelihood that this sixteen year old girl was already dead.
12:18
Speaker 1: What about it, Paul'syke. That's absolutely true, and it's a
12:21
Speaker 1: sad just horrific facts. And in all the responses through
12:27
Speaker 1: the last thirty years to child abduction that I've been
12:31
Speaker 1: involved in, I'll tell you you'd never see a law
12:33
Speaker 1: enforcement response like you do during those types of calls.
12:37
Speaker 1: And that's because they know, you know, up in the
12:40
Speaker 1: high nineties, if we don't find this kid within the
12:44
Speaker 1: first hour or seventy two, you know hours, that you're
12:48
Speaker 1: not going to find them again, and they're probably not
12:52
Speaker 1: going to be alive. And it's horrendous. There's another problem, Mancy.
12:57
Speaker 1: Down in that area, you've got tourists in and out,
13:01
Speaker 1: so it's a transit area and this child could have
13:04
Speaker 1: been picked up by someone thinking out of state. Jill Carson,
13:08
Speaker 1: That's exactly the point I was trying to make, but
13:11
Speaker 1: you made it much better. When I was talking about
13:13
Speaker 1: taking the twins, John David Lucy to see the mermaids
13:16
Speaker 1: at Wikiwatchee. We were also there to swim with the
13:21
Speaker 1: manatee at Crystal River, and there was a huge tourist attraction.
13:30
Speaker 1: It was cold, who was in the early spring, which
13:33
Speaker 1: is the time to see manatee, And I remember we
13:36
Speaker 1: saw Wikiwatchee and swam with the manatee for several days
13:40
Speaker 1: straight right in that area. Wikiwatchee is only ten minutes
13:44
Speaker 1: away from where this occurred in spring Hill, Florida, and
13:48
Speaker 1: then the manatee are about thirty forty minutes from there.
13:51
Speaker 1: So the people come from all over the country to
13:56
Speaker 1: go to those two locations and they have our fees
13:59
Speaker 1: and grounds, and those RVs can transit all the way
14:03
Speaker 1: across the country. You know, it's very interesting and coincidental
14:08
Speaker 1: that you just said that, Dell Carson, because as we
14:11
Speaker 1: were talking about the first three hours, the first seventy
14:15
Speaker 1: seventy two hours after a child is missing, it really
14:20
Speaker 1: hit home with me. In two cases that I investigated
14:23
Speaker 1: and covered in the past. One was the case of
14:27
Speaker 1: Samantha Runnion. As I recalled, Samantha was about three is
14:32
Speaker 1: years old. She was playing in the front yard of
14:35
Speaker 1: her grandma's house. She was a guy came up, grabbed
14:39
Speaker 1: her out of the front yard and took off in
14:41
Speaker 1: a car. By the time the grandma could get out there,
14:44
Speaker 1: she went straight out. She was standing at the kitchen window.
14:47
Speaker 1: She was out there in thirty seconds. The guy was gone,
14:51
Speaker 1: and as it turned out, he murdered Samantha within three
14:55
Speaker 1: or four hours after he had raped in sodomized the
14:58
Speaker 1: little girl. Then what comes to mind is the case
15:02
Speaker 1: of Danielle van Dam. She was abducted in California. There
15:08
Speaker 1: was just a wild, frantic search and they finally found
15:12
Speaker 1: remains identified by her Mickey Mouse airing that she loved
15:16
Speaker 1: so much. But he took her and it was a neighbor,
15:22
Speaker 1: David Westerfield, that had been watching the house. It actually
15:25
Speaker 1: went in the house while they went in there asleep
15:27
Speaker 1: and got the girl. But he kept her hostage in
15:31
Speaker 1: an RV for days before he murdered her. My point
15:37
Speaker 1: is that if the child is not rescued and the
15:40
Speaker 1: first seventy ish hours, the child, if they're going to
15:43
Speaker 1: be killed, has been killed. So the fact that people
15:47
Speaker 1: are traveling to these areas in RVs, it's a tourist
15:50
Speaker 1: area that greatly changes it the whole search another case,
15:56
Speaker 1: it's right on point. Let me go now to Scott
15:59
Speaker 1: Johnson for psychologist, professor of Laurda, Gulf Coast University, an
16:05
Speaker 1: author of physical abusers and sex offenders. Scott, the case
16:08
Speaker 1: of Shastic Grownee also sticks in my mind on this point.
16:12
Speaker 1: The person that murdered her little brother and her whole
16:16
Speaker 1: family was not from that area, believe it or not.
16:20
Speaker 1: It was Cordelaine, Idaho. And when you fly over Cordelaine,
16:24
Speaker 1: you look down you see nothing but beautiful emerald green,
16:28
Speaker 1: completely rural. But they were near an interstate and this
16:36
Speaker 1: freak apparently drove by, spotted at a distance, somehow her
16:43
Speaker 1: at an above ground pool and lay in wait and
16:47
Speaker 1: then massacred her family. Took herring a little brother, ultimately
16:51
Speaker 1: killed him too, And she lived my point. Even when
16:56
Speaker 1: you are in a rural area with low crime, you're
17:00
Speaker 1: not necessarily safe, okay, because the sexual predator, the sexual
17:04
Speaker 1: cycle path is always on the prow. So wherever they are,
17:08
Speaker 1: they're always thinking, you know, where's the next game, because
17:11
Speaker 1: for them it's a game. And so wherever they are,
17:14
Speaker 1: they're always at risk or perpetrating another crime. You know what,
17:19
Speaker 1: the way you just said that put a chill down
17:21
Speaker 1: my spine, and you are absolutely correct. This sends shockwaves
17:26
Speaker 1: through not only the community they are in Florida, but
17:30
Speaker 1: the family of Teresa as well. Take listen to our
17:34
Speaker 1: friends at WFTS. Shouldn't have a chance to start her
17:38
Speaker 1: life at all, or do anything or accomplish anything. Teresa
17:41
Speaker 1: Fillingham was seventeen and living in Tampa in nineteen eighty
17:45
Speaker 1: when she disappeared. Her disappearance and my son's birth four
17:48
Speaker 1: years later, and the subsequent disappearance of a kid two
17:52
Speaker 1: blocks from my house that stepped off their bus and
17:55
Speaker 1: was never heard from again, prompted me to leave the
17:58
Speaker 1: state and not raise son in Florida. Okay, I've got
18:02
Speaker 1: to say to you, Scott Johnson, psychologist joining us, that
18:07
Speaker 1: sounds a bit like an overreaction. But I completely understand
18:12
Speaker 1: why the family of missing Teresa would just pick up
18:17
Speaker 1: and leave. It's just what is that Some people that
18:21
Speaker 1: aren't familiar with it would call it an overreaction, but
18:24
Speaker 1: I disagree, right because they're reacting to a tremendous obviously
18:30
Speaker 1: try and they picked up and moved on, And sometimes
18:33
Speaker 1: that's the bestly got for their SAMI team. You know,
18:36
Speaker 1: I spoke to in depth to the mother a little
18:39
Speaker 1: boy who was shot dead as case still hasn't insults
18:42
Speaker 1: Chucky Mack out of one of Roma's Georgia and for
18:45
Speaker 1: years and years she stayed in the family home thinking
18:50
Speaker 1: that somehow she might get a tip, and that if
18:53
Speaker 1: she moved then that tip would no longer be possible.
18:58
Speaker 1: The other day, we covered a case where the family
19:01
Speaker 1: didn't want to leave because they thought the missing child
19:04
Speaker 1: would come home one day. And when they finally did leave,
19:07
Speaker 1: they moved their landline to a neighbor's home just in
19:12
Speaker 1: case the missing child, now grown up, would call home.
19:17
Speaker 1: And that just broke my heart, Paul, right, And you know,
19:21
Speaker 1: there's always that hope that somewhere you are loved one
19:25
Speaker 1: will will show up, And certainly there are those cases,
19:29
Speaker 1: but you kind of stay stuck in time waiting, and
19:32
Speaker 1: that's the downside. It's another victimization for the family who
19:37
Speaker 1: put their life on hold with hopes that one day
19:40
Speaker 1: they're missing loved them will show up, and we know
19:43
Speaker 1: that ninety nine percent of the time that's just not
19:45
Speaker 1: the outcome. Scott Johnson, you wanted in go ahead. Yes,
19:49
Speaker 1: you know. At times the sexual psychopath wants to find
19:52
Speaker 1: that isolated victims to buy themselves time, ie that they
19:56
Speaker 1: won't be detected. On the other hand, for so many
19:59
Speaker 1: that's part of the game where they may actually abduct
20:01
Speaker 1: someone in broad daylight or knowing that people will be looking,
20:06
Speaker 1: because that's part of the mystique for them is to
20:09
Speaker 1: can I get away with this kind of attitude. Little
20:12
Speaker 1: did anyone realize at the time that multiple women seemingly
20:20
Speaker 1: went missing throughout the area brewing was this take a
20:26
Speaker 1: listen to our friends a crime online. William Mansfield Junior,
20:30
Speaker 1: known as Billy, is the son of a convicted sex offender,
20:33
Speaker 1: William Mansfield Senior. From the mid nineteen seventies. Billy Mansfield
20:37
Speaker 1: Junior spent time in jail for sexually assaulting a minor.
20:40
Speaker 1: His sentence was cut short when he agreed to testify
20:43
Speaker 1: against a cell mate. Before long, Mansfield Junior was back
20:46
Speaker 1: in prison for assaulting two teenagers. In addition to sexual assault,
20:50
Speaker 1: mansfild Junior was convicted of battery and kidnapping. After serving
20:53
Speaker 1: that sentence, Mansfield Junior moved to California to work on
20:56
Speaker 1: a mushroom farm. With his brother, Gary Mansfield. So what
21:00
Speaker 1: does a mushroom farm and a convicted sex offender in
21:07
Speaker 1: California have to do with a missing sixteen year old girl,
21:12
Speaker 1: Teresa in Florida? And what does a woman named Renee
21:18
Speaker 1: Salinge have to do with this? Take a listen to
21:22
Speaker 1: our friend Dave matt. Soon after arriving in California, Mansfield
21:26
Speaker 1: Junior's first murder took place, one of five he would
21:29
Speaker 1: be convicted of in nineteen eighty two. At that time,
21:32
Speaker 1: the body of Renee Sailing was recovered from a ditch Sailing,
21:35
Speaker 1: a twenty nine year old mother, was sexually assaulted and
21:38
Speaker 1: then strangled. In the ensuing media coverage of Sailing's murder,
21:41
Speaker 1: authorities received a tip more bodies might be found on
21:45
Speaker 1: a Florida property that the Mansfield brothers owned. Acting on
21:48
Speaker 1: that information, police recovered four sets of remains on the
21:52
Speaker 1: property owned by the Mansfields in Florida. That is the
21:56
Speaker 1: connection to Florida. Joining me from Oxten not calm is
22:01
Speaker 1: Jackson Miller Jacks Again, thanks for being with us. So
22:04
Speaker 1: tell me about this registered sex offender on a mushroom
22:09
Speaker 1: farm in California. What do we know about him, so
22:13
Speaker 1: he was kind of living where he worked. It was
22:15
Speaker 1: it was almost like a compound kind of thing. He
22:17
Speaker 1: was living with his brother Gary in Santa Cruz and
22:21
Speaker 1: shortly after that's when he met Renee at a bar
22:24
Speaker 1: in December nineteen eighty. So that's what we know about
22:28
Speaker 1: that much of it. And it wasn't until Renee's body
22:32
Speaker 1: was found and then they started looking for Billy and
22:35
Speaker 1: his brother. That's when the tips are called from Florida. Says, yeah,
22:38
Speaker 1: you might want to look at Billy's property back here
22:40
Speaker 1: in Florida. You know, that's a call that nobody wants
22:43
Speaker 1: to hear to you, Dale Carson, to find out that
22:49
Speaker 1: a sex predator with a horrible criminal history has been
22:52
Speaker 1: let out. Then you find a body, a dead body
22:56
Speaker 1: of a woman lasting with him, and then you get
22:59
Speaker 1: the call, yeah, you know what, he's got a remote
23:02
Speaker 1: property in Florida. Better check it out. That's enough to
23:06
Speaker 1: turn your stomach over in a flipplop. Well, you're exactly right, because,
23:10
Speaker 1: particularly if the property ends up being in a fairly
23:14
Speaker 1: rural area where not many other people have access, and
23:18
Speaker 1: then you begin the process whether or not there might
23:22
Speaker 1: be evidence of other homicides in that particular area, as
23:26
Speaker 1: we now learn, was specifically the case. So in addition
23:31
Speaker 1: to renee selling in California as he heard, acting on
23:36
Speaker 1: that tip, cops head to Florida, Florida authorities in on
23:41
Speaker 1: it as well to uncover a virtual burial ground take
23:47
Speaker 1: a list of our friends crime online. Of the fourth
23:50
Speaker 1: sets of remains found on the Mansfield property in Florida,
23:53
Speaker 1: two were identified fairly quickly. The first to be identified
23:56
Speaker 1: was a woman named Sandra Jean Graham, who was twenty
23:58
Speaker 1: one years old when she appeared in nineteen eighty. The
24:01
Speaker 1: second to be identified was fifteen year old Elaine Ziggler
24:04
Speaker 1: from Ohio. She disappeared while camping with her family in Florida.
24:08
Speaker 1: Two additional bodies could not be identified. Court documents revealed
24:12
Speaker 1: that Mansfield Senior, Mansfield Junior, and Gary Mansfield all sexually
24:17
Speaker 1: assaulted the victims. Mansfield Junior then killed and dismembered them.
24:22
Speaker 1: Have to decide where to start with all of that information,
24:26
Speaker 1: But do you, Scott Johnson? You've got three devils straight
24:30
Speaker 1: from hell. The devil and two minions. Three guys related
24:38
Speaker 1: are sex attacking and murdering women systematically and then burying them.
24:46
Speaker 1: I mean, what happens in the mind of a perp
24:50
Speaker 1: when they get with other perps. I've always noticed this
24:53
Speaker 1: when you're I've noticed that defendens will do things with
24:58
Speaker 1: other like minded doers that they may not do on
25:02
Speaker 1: their own. But somehow the three of them working together
25:05
Speaker 1: thought it was okay to kidnap women, torture them, rape them,
25:10
Speaker 1: sodomize them, murder them, and bury them on their own
25:14
Speaker 1: private burial ground. Right. So, once we have the social
25:18
Speaker 1: support and in this case the familial support, now people
25:22
Speaker 1: are more embraveing, more embolded, and they likely become more
25:25
Speaker 1: statistic because now they have to kind of all do
25:28
Speaker 1: each other, but they've got each other for support. You
25:30
Speaker 1: know that is a nightmare for somebody like you, doctor
25:33
Speaker 1: Michelle do pretty well, maybe not, this is your line
25:36
Speaker 1: of business. So in this remote Florida rural outpost, four
25:42
Speaker 1: bodies so far have been found. How do they know
25:47
Speaker 1: by just looking at them, because they're totally skeletonized, that
25:51
Speaker 1: they're all women? And how from just the body alone
25:56
Speaker 1: could you make an identification without DNA? Those are very
26:00
Speaker 1: good questions. The way that we can tell with the
26:02
Speaker 1: sex of the bones that we find are by looking
26:05
Speaker 1: at certain bones the jawline, for one. We can look
26:08
Speaker 1: at the palvic bone, which is really a giveaway because
26:11
Speaker 1: you know, women are built so that they can have children.
26:14
Speaker 1: A male's palvice is much different. We can also look
26:17
Speaker 1: at other characteristics of the body or of the bones,
26:21
Speaker 1: and one of the things that we that we often
26:24
Speaker 1: do is we try to look at the general height
26:30
Speaker 1: or weight of the bones to match them up with
26:33
Speaker 1: those that might be missing. Do men's bones actually weigh
26:36
Speaker 1: more than women's bones? They do, very slightly, of course,
26:40
Speaker 1: because men are typically larger. But the long bones are
26:44
Speaker 1: typically larger in males and they are in females again
26:47
Speaker 1: as well, as the skull is made very differently, and
26:51
Speaker 1: you can de try to not find looking at you
26:53
Speaker 1: said a male skull is different from a female skull.
26:56
Speaker 1: Did you just say that? I did? So let me guess.
26:58
Speaker 1: Is the brain cavity for a female much bigger than
27:02
Speaker 1: a male? It certainly should be nancy, but it's not
27:05
Speaker 1: typically just curious. Um, now back to see the guys
27:12
Speaker 1: on the palet, I think they even got that. But um,
27:15
Speaker 1: doctor Michelde, pray, while I have a kise my husband
27:24
Speaker 1: having a Hanster in his head running on a wheel,
27:27
Speaker 1: and that's what makes the brain work. Okay, but he
27:30
Speaker 1: takes it in as a good sport. Flowing back towards
27:34
Speaker 1: said earlier about the familial problem with this behavior, I'll
27:41
Speaker 1: often see that as a nest of people because it
27:46
Speaker 1: when you observe that conduct and other family members you
27:50
Speaker 1: can to engage in it. And that's what makes these
27:53
Speaker 1: folks so dangerous because they have a propensity for this
27:57
Speaker 1: behavior and they have a skill set that is occasioned
28:01
Speaker 1: by repeated acts of this nature. Okay, call me crazy,
28:05
Speaker 1: but to you, Scott Johnson, I agree with what he
28:08
Speaker 1: just said. Deal Carson, and in our home, I mean,
28:13
Speaker 1: after I prosecuted with every miscreant in Fulton County, inner
28:18
Speaker 1: City Atlanta, dapers John's killers, I swore like a sailor.
28:27
Speaker 1: But when we had children, I'm said, David Lynch, do
28:30
Speaker 1: not curse in front of them ever, And I went clean.
28:34
Speaker 1: It's hard because what you do, I mean, your children
28:39
Speaker 1: are going to do the same thing that they see
28:42
Speaker 1: you do. It's just that simple. And I know a
28:45
Speaker 1: curseword is a pretty minor thing, but it extends to
28:48
Speaker 1: what Deal Carson is saying. If you grow up with
28:51
Speaker 1: that and your family's doing it, it's just part of
28:53
Speaker 1: your familial indoctrination. Right, especially we're objecting women that sex
28:58
Speaker 1: I'll just door talking openly about the use of pornography
29:03
Speaker 1: or just again, how you know we degrade women that
29:07
Speaker 1: were around and again in a minute you had that
29:10
Speaker 1: social or familial support. You've got a monstrous situation because
29:16
Speaker 1: many of our sex vetters don't have to direct support
29:19
Speaker 1: for what they do. In this case, you've got family
29:22
Speaker 1: supporting what they did and joining in. So dontor Michel Dupran,
29:27
Speaker 1: I never got a clear answer, as Branch. Does a
29:31
Speaker 1: male skeleton actually weigh more than a female skeleton, not
29:35
Speaker 1: just because it's bigger, but is it more dense? Does
29:38
Speaker 1: it wayh more? Well, again as it depends on the
29:41
Speaker 1: age of the person and all of that, but typically
29:43
Speaker 1: it does was slightly more. Yet interesting, I never knew
29:46
Speaker 1: that time stories with Nancy Grace. So now we've got
30:04
Speaker 1: four dead bodies, they're skeletonized. Now doctor dupre explained how
30:11
Speaker 1: you can tell it's a woman, But how on just
30:14
Speaker 1: a skeleton can you tell the idea? Doctor Dupree, Well,
30:18
Speaker 1: oftentimes you cannot tell the Ida, Nancy, just on the
30:21
Speaker 1: bones themselves, they would have to be analyzed. They would
30:23
Speaker 1: need to be some DNA. How about the teeth, Yes,
30:25
Speaker 1: perhaps dental records. But then remember you have to have
30:28
Speaker 1: an idea of who that person is because you can
30:30
Speaker 1: be asked to compare dental records. Yes, like fingerprints, you
30:34
Speaker 1: can find a latent print at the crime scene. You
30:36
Speaker 1: got to have somebody to compare it too. Yes, And
30:38
Speaker 1: there's no database on the sky for dental records. That is.
30:41
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say that would be quite an
30:44
Speaker 1: advancement in criminal law if in the missing files we
30:48
Speaker 1: had dental records. But you know that would require when
30:52
Speaker 1: someone goes missing that their dental records be put in
30:56
Speaker 1: a certain data bank. That has not happened yet. Now,
30:59
Speaker 1: even though all the remains have not yet been identified,
31:04
Speaker 1: suddenly a breakthrough take Listen to our friends at WTSP
31:08
Speaker 1: Detectives tell us that back in nineteen eighty four sets
31:12
Speaker 1: of human remains were found on the Mansfield family's property
31:16
Speaker 1: located in spring Hill. Now, two sets of those human
31:19
Speaker 1: remains were identified fairly quickly, but the other two that
31:23
Speaker 1: was a different story. They were sent to several different
31:26
Speaker 1: labs and investigators tried hard to figure out who exactly
31:29
Speaker 1: those human remains belonged to. Now fast forward to forty
31:33
Speaker 1: one years later, Teresa Phillingham's remains have now finally been
31:37
Speaker 1: identified and from our friends at waing Wi. N K.
31:41
Speaker 1: John's and her family heard nothing for forty two years
31:44
Speaker 1: until last July when she got a call from the
31:47
Speaker 1: Hernando County Sheriff's office, dropped the bomb on the and
31:50
Speaker 1: said that we think we might have your sister's remains.
31:55
Speaker 1: Those remains were found in nineteen eighty one, along with
31:58
Speaker 1: those of four others, in the backyard of convicted serial
32:01
Speaker 1: killer Billy Mansfield Junior's family home. It wasn't until last
32:05
Speaker 1: year that Teresa's were identified. Margaret John's tells eight on
32:09
Speaker 1: Your Side. Human remains found at this Springhill home belonging
32:13
Speaker 1: to the family of convicted serial killer Billy Mansfield had
32:16
Speaker 1: been identified as her missing seventeen year old sister. Neighbors
32:20
Speaker 1: called at a house of horrors. Listened to our cut
32:23
Speaker 1: seven from w FLA. Neighbors call it a house of horrors.
32:27
Speaker 1: Court documents described the torture that took place here. In
32:30
Speaker 1: October twenty twenty, the killer's brother, Gary Mansfield, tipped off
32:35
Speaker 1: deputies to search the property after they arrested him on
32:38
Speaker 1: drug charges. John says, last July, the Hernando County Sheriff's
32:42
Speaker 1: cold case detective reached out to her, we're looking for
32:46
Speaker 1: somebody who may have lost a sister in nineteen eighty
32:50
Speaker 1: in Tampa, Florida or Hernando County area. No One, Yeah,
32:57
Speaker 1: you are hearing Teresa's sister recalling when she heard we're
33:03
Speaker 1: looking for somebody who may have lost a sister in
33:06
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty in Tampa, Florida or Hernando County and she thought, Yeah,
33:14
Speaker 1: that's going to be my sister. Joining me right now
33:18
Speaker 1: is a very special guest, a DNA expert specialist, Cecy Moore,
33:23
Speaker 1: chief genetic genealogist at Parabon Nano Labs. So happy to
33:29
Speaker 1: have you, Cecy, as always explained, thank you. What happened.
33:34
Speaker 1: So Hernando County submitted the unidentified human remains from that
33:40
Speaker 1: site to Paravan and at our partner lab, we were
33:45
Speaker 1: able to analyze that very degraded DNA who used told
33:49
Speaker 1: genome sequencing, and then our incredible bioinformatic scientists repaired that
33:55
Speaker 1: degraded DNA extracted out that bacterial contaminate that you can
34:00
Speaker 1: see when bones have been in the environment for a
34:04
Speaker 1: long time. They prepared a file that could then be
34:08
Speaker 1: uploaded to the jet match website and compare it against
34:11
Speaker 1: the one point five million people approximately that are participating
34:16
Speaker 1: in that site. Then we get a match list people
34:19
Speaker 1: who share significant amounts of DNA with that unknown girl.
34:23
Speaker 1: That's where my job starts. So when I looked at
34:25
Speaker 1: that match list, I was thrilled because at the top
34:29
Speaker 1: of that list, we had a handful of second cousins.
34:33
Speaker 1: So if you get second cousins, that's terrific. It means
34:37
Speaker 1: that they will share great grandparents that unknown Jane Doe.
34:42
Speaker 1: And not only those, I had another handful of relatively
34:46
Speaker 1: close matches, meaning third cousins approximately, so we don't have
34:51
Speaker 1: to go too far back in the family tree to
34:53
Speaker 1: find that common ancestor and then come forward. And so
34:57
Speaker 1: this was a very promising case for investor. You needed
35:00
Speaker 1: genetic gemology. Guys, if you've never heard of Ccmore, she
35:04
Speaker 1: is incredible. She is with Parabond Laboratories Nano Labs at
35:10
Speaker 1: parabond dot com and she is at ccmore dot com.
35:14
Speaker 1: Cecmore dot com. Ccum, I couldn't understand every single thing
35:21
Speaker 1: you said. I would have to write that downward for word.
35:24
Speaker 1: But what I think you said in regular people talk
35:27
Speaker 1: is that you didn't have Teresa, the sixteen year old
35:33
Speaker 1: girls DNA on file, but when you took when they
35:36
Speaker 1: took the DNA from the skeletonized body, you put it
35:42
Speaker 1: in to jedmatch with over a million people that are
35:48
Speaker 1: on the database. Now you do that because it's not protected.
35:53
Speaker 1: For instance, ancestry dot com. An investigator can't log into
35:56
Speaker 1: that because it's private. But you can't get into jedmatch.
36:00
Speaker 1: And you did, and you didn't find a match to
36:04
Speaker 1: Teresa herself, but you find startling similarities. Introduce it it
36:09
Speaker 1: is a second cousin related to Teresa because they're in
36:13
Speaker 1: jet match. Then you have a family to go by,
36:18
Speaker 1: and then I guess the procedure after that will be
36:21
Speaker 1: to go to them and say do you have someone missing?
36:24
Speaker 1: Is that how it works? Say say, actually no. When
36:27
Speaker 1: you have this much data to work with, you albums
36:30
Speaker 1: never have to reach out to those matches. I just
36:33
Speaker 1: have to build their family trees, find the patterns, the
36:36
Speaker 1: commonalities and hopefully common ancestors between the matches between the
36:41
Speaker 1: people that share DNA with her, because the only reason
36:44
Speaker 1: people would share significant amounts of DNA with her is
36:47
Speaker 1: if they had common ancestors. So these second cousins shared
36:51
Speaker 1: about three percent of their DNA. That translates to about
36:55
Speaker 1: a second cousin relationship. But it's not just those matches,
37:00
Speaker 1: additional matches on the list. And so I was able
37:02
Speaker 1: to reverse engineer her family tree from building the family
37:07
Speaker 1: trees of the people who share DNA with her. So
37:10
Speaker 1: it's building back in time and then flipping that true
37:13
Speaker 1: upside down doing reverse genealogy coming forward in time, and
37:18
Speaker 1: I found matches that connected to three of her grandparent lines.
37:22
Speaker 1: So that's optimal when you have that much data that
37:26
Speaker 1: you can piece it back together. You know, we all
37:29
Speaker 1: have unique family trees other than our full sibling, and
37:32
Speaker 1: so there's going to only be one family that has
37:36
Speaker 1: that unique set of ancestors. And so that led me
37:40
Speaker 1: right to her parents their marriage, and then I found
37:43
Speaker 1: her birth certificate in California, forked me out here in California,
37:47
Speaker 1: we have a public birth index, so I was actually
37:50
Speaker 1: able to find her name. Sucymore. Has anybody told you
37:54
Speaker 1: today you're incredible. You're amazing. I'm curiously very early right
38:02
Speaker 1: so I haven't heard it, but thank you so much,
38:04
Speaker 1: so much coming from you. I bet the people that
38:07
Speaker 1: know you well have probably begun to take your genius
38:11
Speaker 1: for granted. But it's people like you that crack cases
38:16
Speaker 1: like this. So in addition to what CC is telling
38:22
Speaker 1: us from Paramond nano Labs, we also now know who
38:25
Speaker 1: is the rat. It was another brother of this bunch
38:30
Speaker 1: who caught a drug charge and for some type of
38:33
Speaker 1: lenient treatment, ratted out the burial ground that yielded at
38:40
Speaker 1: least four bodies. Take a listen to our friend, Dave mac.
38:44
Speaker 1: Billy Mansfield Junior, and Gary Mansfield were arrested in Nevada.
38:48
Speaker 1: Gary Mansfield agreed to cooperate with the authorities and testify
38:51
Speaker 1: against Billy Mansfield. Mansfield Junior was convicted and sentenced to
38:55
Speaker 1: twenty five years to life behind bars. He also pleaded
38:58
Speaker 1: guilty to murdering the four will girls recovered on the
39:01
Speaker 1: Mansfield property in Florida, as well as an attempted sexual
39:04
Speaker 1: battery on a fifth victim. Mansfield Junior remains in prison
39:08
Speaker 1: at the California Healthcare Facility in Stockton. He's serving his
39:11
Speaker 1: sentence in California because that's where his first murder, that
39:15
Speaker 1: a twenty nine year old mother, Renee Sailing, took place.
39:17
Speaker 1: And we're talking about Gary Mansfield and Billy Mansfield Junior.
39:21
Speaker 1: But believe it or not, there's a Mansfield the third
39:27
Speaker 1: take list now friends at w f LA. Billy Mansfield
39:31
Speaker 1: the Third is now living in Michigan with his family,
39:33
Speaker 1: far from Florida and the home he spent much of
39:36
Speaker 1: his childhood, a place he says now is a graveyard. Personally,
39:40
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot. I just can't see how
39:43
Speaker 1: somebody that could do that. He's going to stop at one,
39:46
Speaker 1: and if there was four and five, if you didn't
39:48
Speaker 1: stop at one, you ain't stopping at four and five.
39:51
Speaker 1: He does hope, however, that investigators continue to search the
39:54
Speaker 1: property for bodies, a place he once called home, as
39:58
Speaker 1: do I It's hard for me to believe that they
40:00
Speaker 1: stopped at body number four. We wait as justice unfolds,
40:07
Speaker 1: but for now, the family of teen girl Teresa Fillingen
40:14
Speaker 1: gets the end of the story. Nancy Grace crimes story,
40:18
Speaker 1: shunning off, Goodbye for