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Buddy Ebsen’s Daughter Kiki Ebsen · Relatively Famous with Chip White

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: Welcome to another episode of Relatively Famous, the
• 0:02
  Speaker 0: podcast where I, Chip White, interview relatives of
• 0:04
  Speaker 0: famous people. My famous relative is Vanna White
• 0:07
  Speaker 0: of Wheel of Fortune, hence the podcast. I'm
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  Speaker 0: super excited about today's guest. Even though I
• 0:12
  Speaker 0: say that every episode, I am always super
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  Speaker 0: excited. I was a big fan of her
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  Speaker 0: father's, Buddy Ebsen, who you may know from
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  Speaker 0: the Beverly Hillbillies, Barnaby Jones, the MGM musicals,
• 0:27
  Speaker 0: the Republic and westerns. He was a big
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  Speaker 0: actor and singer and dancer. But today, we
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  Speaker 0: have his daughter, KiKi Ebsen, a singer and
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  Speaker 0: musician in her own right, and this is
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  Speaker 0: gonna be a fun, great interview or conversation
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  Speaker 0: as I like to say. So let's welcome
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  Speaker 0: Kiki Ebsen.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Relatively Famous Podcast with Chip White.
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  Speaker 0: Kiki, welcome to another episode of Relatively Famous.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. Thanks for having me.
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  Speaker 0: Yeah. I had a fan kind of... He
• 1:21
  Speaker 0: always sends me a list of people I
• 1:23
  Speaker 0: should contact. And I was like, oh, she
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  Speaker 0: sounds awesome. She's got a great story. She's
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  Speaker 0: got a great charity she works with with
• 1:29
  Speaker 0: the horses. So let me reach out so
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  Speaker 0: I can find her. And I was so
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  Speaker 0: happy when you responded, and and I'm excited
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  Speaker 0: to have you on the show today.
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  Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, thank you.
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  Speaker 0: Now I talked a little bit in the
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  Speaker 0: opening. Your dad, Buddy Ebsen, I'm a huge
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  Speaker 0: fan of his from the from the Beverly
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  Speaker 0: Hillbillies and because of his dancing. What are
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  Speaker 0: some of the memories that really pop out
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  Speaker 0: in your mind about your dad's career?
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  Speaker 2: Wow. Well, that's all... That's a great question.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't really understand the whole
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  Speaker 2: idea of acting, you know, when I was
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  Speaker 2: a child. So, like, my brother and I
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  Speaker 2: just thought that all dads were on TV,
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  Speaker 2: you know, because that's how we saw him
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  Speaker 2: for most of my life. He was on
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  Speaker 2: television pretty much. I was the last of...
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  Speaker 2: My brother and I were the, the youngest.
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  Speaker 2: So I... You know, what sticks out to
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  Speaker 2: me is this big celebration of when the
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  Speaker 2: hellbillies first came on, and we all sat
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  Speaker 2: around this television set, which was still a
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  Speaker 2: little confusing to me. And just kinda watching
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  Speaker 2: them on TV and and starting to process
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  Speaker 2: that and what that meant, you know, what
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  Speaker 2: that would mean going forward. So I also
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  Speaker 2: would remember him coming home in makeup, you
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  Speaker 2: know, with a mustache that he didn't really
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  Speaker 2: have, and I I was thought... So I
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  Speaker 2: was kinda curious why he would wear this
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  Speaker 2: outfit and go to go to work. And,
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  Speaker 2: but I think, you know, as I got
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  Speaker 2: older, I started to really appreciate that work
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  Speaker 2: that he did before the hillbillies and before
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  Speaker 2: I was born. So I think what sticks
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  Speaker 2: out for me is just his tenacity, in
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  Speaker 2: being able to ride the wave of entertainment
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  Speaker 2: from the twenties to the thirties, forties, fifties,
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  Speaker 2: sixties. So he saw, like... You know, he
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  Speaker 2: entered the world as... He entered the entertainment
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  Speaker 2: world as a dancer, and then he got
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  Speaker 2: into Broadway. Then he got into movies, you
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  Speaker 2: know, MGM movies, classic, you know, in the
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  Speaker 2: thirties. And then he went into World War
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  Speaker 2: two, and he was able to reinvent himself
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  Speaker 2: not easily. But through the forties, he invented
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  Speaker 2: himself through movies again and then eventually television,
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  Speaker 2: but he was close to fifty. So I
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  Speaker 2: just think his his stick to itiveness and
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  Speaker 2: his at work ethic, and his ability to
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  Speaker 2: survive such negativity in a in a in
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  Speaker 2: in a business that's just so brutal was,
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  Speaker 2: very inspiring to watch, but I I honestly
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  Speaker 2: did not appreciate it till I was much
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  Speaker 2: older.
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  Speaker 0: Yeah. I think that a lot of the
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  Speaker 0: kids of of actors that I've talked to
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  Speaker 0: have kind of been the same way. It's
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  Speaker 0: like, well, didn't every dad go to movies
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  Speaker 0: or or TV? And your dad had a
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  Speaker 0: really long career here, and you talk about
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  Speaker 0: that. The... And... Okay. I have to laugh
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  Speaker 0: because I had no idea that the mustache
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  Speaker 0: was fake.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He... It was always...
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  Speaker 2: His lip was always so irritated from the
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  Speaker 2: mustache, and he was always, like, had some
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  Speaker 2: sort of, like, you know, salve on his
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  Speaker 2: lip in between shootings because of the glue.
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  Speaker 1: I think
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  Speaker 0: that's hilarious. You're... And and we're gonna delve
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  Speaker 0: into your life here in a second. I
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  Speaker 0: just wanna really kind of establish this for
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  Speaker 0: for listeners, especially if we can get some
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  Speaker 0: younger ones because I love when I can
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  Speaker 0: introduce older movies and TV shows to younger
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  Speaker 0: audiences. Your dad was gonna be the original
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  Speaker 0: Tin Man Yes. In Wizard of Oz.
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  Speaker 2: Yes. That was a story actually that we
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  Speaker 2: didn't know growing up. We watched the movie
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  Speaker 2: as a family, and they just sort of...
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  Speaker 2: My dad... It was a traumatic story for
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  Speaker 2: him, so he never shared it with us
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  Speaker 2: as a family. He was a contract player
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  Speaker 1: for MGM. It was in
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  Speaker 2: the thirties. And, you know, contract players player
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  Speaker 2: for MGM. It was in the thirties. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, contract players didn't have much choice
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  Speaker 2: about the parts. They were just lucky to
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  Speaker 2: be cast in whatever movie that was coming
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  Speaker 2: in. And at one point, he was promised
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  Speaker 2: the role of the scarecrow. But Ray Bolger
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  Speaker 2: had a better dance, had a better, you
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  Speaker 2: know, way of moving, so they gave dad
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  Speaker 2: the Tin Man role. And the makeup that
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  Speaker 2: they used for that role was actually dusting
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  Speaker 2: his face with aluminum powder. So it was
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  Speaker 2: flying all over, you know, in the air,
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  Speaker 2: and he inhaled it. And over about a
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  Speaker 2: two week period, it coated the inside of
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  Speaker 2: his lungs, like paint. Right? So he couldn't
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  Speaker 2: get oxygen to his blood, and he he
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  Speaker 2: collapsed and almost died. I mean, he was
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  Speaker 2: he was in a really bad shape in
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  Speaker 2: the hospital. It took him several weeks to
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  Speaker 2: recover, and they recast him, you know, during
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  Speaker 2: that time. And, you know, so I just
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  Speaker 2: think... And the studio really didn't take responsibility.
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  Speaker 2: They said he was allergic to the makeup,
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  Speaker 2: and it really wasn't that at all. So
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  Speaker 2: he ended up leaving MGM, refusing a contract
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  Speaker 2: renewal, by LB mayor personally. And, he went...
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  Speaker 2: He had a hard time finding work after
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  Speaker 2: that. So that was one of the tough
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  Speaker 2: times.
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  Speaker 0: Wow. Now I know you're a musician. I
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  Speaker 0: don't think of your dad as a singer,
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  Speaker 0: but, obviously, singing... A song and dance man.
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  Speaker 0: What really made you think music over acting?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Good question. Obviously, the family business is
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  Speaker 2: is acting. Not that was expected, but, it
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  Speaker 2: was a little crowded. My mother was also
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  Speaker 2: an actress and and, was born community theater.
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  Speaker 2: She had a theater in Newport Beach, and
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  Speaker 2: my sister went into the business. But I
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  Speaker 2: honestly... I was always drawn to the piano.
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  Speaker 2: My mother's on my mother's side. All of
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  Speaker 2: her sisters and my mother as well were
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  Speaker 2: pianists. My grandmother was a concert pianist. And
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  Speaker 2: I I gravitated to the piano because I
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  Speaker 2: heard music in my head, and it was
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  Speaker 2: the easiest way for me to get the
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  Speaker 2: music out of out of me... Out of
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  Speaker 2: my head. And it was comforting to me,
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  Speaker 2: so I liked that part. So I just
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  Speaker 2: naturally played all the time. And then, you
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  Speaker 2: know, as a teenager teenager, like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: most adolescents, I struggled with my emotions and
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  Speaker 2: struggled to figure out identity. And it was
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  Speaker 2: difficult for me to consider an acting career
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  Speaker 2: with a father that was so famous, and
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  Speaker 2: I was so deeply sensitive. So I started
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  Speaker 2: writing songs and just started playing in bands,
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  Speaker 2: and the music was just a natural choice
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  Speaker 2: for me. I tried. I'd... I've done a
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  Speaker 2: little bit of, like, acting, if you will.
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  Speaker 2: I definitely went through the ranks of my
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  Speaker 2: my mother's theater, and I was actually an
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  Speaker 2: extra in Back to the Future, but I...
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  Speaker 2: But as a musician. But I never really
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  Speaker 2: followed that route. I never just went to
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  Speaker 2: auditions and did that whole thing. I was
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  Speaker 2: too busy. I really got lucky out of
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  Speaker 2: college, just to land a touring music gig.
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  Speaker 2: So I I was out with really big
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  Speaker 2: name artist. You know, my twenties, I was
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  Speaker 2: out with Chicago and, you know, Alghero and
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  Speaker 2: Tracy Chapman and Christopher Cross. I mean, just
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  Speaker 2: a lot of great artists. And every time
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  Speaker 2: I thought, I'm gonna try this acting thing,
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  Speaker 2: I'd get called for a tour or I
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  Speaker 2: got a record deal or something. I thought,
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  Speaker 2: well, that... Obviously, that's not what I'm I'm
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  Speaker 2: I'm supposed to be doing. I'm I'm following
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  Speaker 2: my heart, which is, which is music, which
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  Speaker 2: is to me performing, acting with... Is just
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  Speaker 2: with music. You know? You're still emoting. You're
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  Speaker 2: still, you know, you're still on a stage,
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  Speaker 2: and you're still communicating through the arts.
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  Speaker 0: Okay. You mentioned some big names. We're gonna
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  Speaker 0: get to those in a second, and and
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  Speaker 0: and more about your music. So you and
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  Speaker 0: I are gonna get in the car, and
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  Speaker 0: we're gonna drive from California to San Antonio
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  Speaker 0: on a little road trip. What's the first
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  Speaker 0: song you're gonna play for me?
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  Speaker 2: That's fun. Well, I have to tell you,
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  Speaker 2: I have a playlist that I put on
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  Speaker 2: almost every day when I'm working with my
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  Speaker 2: horses. My all time feel good song is,
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  Speaker 2: Lionel Richie's All Night Long.
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  Speaker 0: Love that song. You know, I was at...
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  Speaker 2: It feels so good when I hear it.
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  Speaker 2: I love it.
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  Speaker 0: Yeah. I was a DJ in nightclubs, and
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  Speaker 0: when that song came on, man, it was
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  Speaker 0: just... It would pack the dance floor. It's
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  Speaker 0: just a great, great song.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, it feels good. And to me, music
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  Speaker 2: is all about putting you in a zone,
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  Speaker 2: you know, where where you feel good to
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  Speaker 2: me. Or it it it might be something
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  Speaker 2: you need to hear a song that if
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  Speaker 2: you're angry or sad as well, but it
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  Speaker 2: makes you feel. Music really makes you feel.
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  Speaker 2: That's what I love about it.
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  Speaker 0: Yeah. It's funny. I was driving in this
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  Speaker 0: morning, and there... There's two things they say.
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  Speaker 0: A sense of smell and music can bring
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  Speaker 0: memories back quicker than than most anything. And
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  Speaker 2: I believe
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  Speaker 0: so. I heard an average white man play
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  Speaker 0: that funky music today, and I was like,
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  Speaker 0: all right. I can remember that as a
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  Speaker 0: kid learning to bump, the dance to bump
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  Speaker 1: to
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  Speaker 0: that song at the galleon. You know? And
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  Speaker 0: it's like, is there a song that you
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  Speaker 0: hear on the radio while you're driving on
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  Speaker 0: your playlist and it takes you to a
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  Speaker 0: specific place in your life?
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  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I can hear things like, well,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: there are a lot, so I'm not gonna
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: do... Really do it justice. But when I
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  Speaker 2: think... When I hear, like, Ricky Lee Jones
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  Speaker 2: sing We Belong Together, I think of... You
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: know, I just think of a moment in
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: time, you know, where that was a really
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: meaningful song, you know, about somebody. And it
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  Speaker 2: takes me right into the... I feel exactly
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  Speaker 2: what I'm feeling, in that moment. So so,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: yeah, I mean, there's some... You know, like,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I love Pete Townshend. So my my list
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: is pretty eclectic. You know, Pete Townshend from
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the who. I'm kind of a rock and
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: roll chick. And I have certain songs in
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: his solo records that just bring up certain
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: feelings in me. Of course, I'm a huge,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: huge Joni Mitchell fan and a huge Carole
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: King fan. And so those songs remind me
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  Speaker 2: of being about ten or eleven and discovering
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: their music and, the era of Laurel Canyon
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: because I grew up here in in Los
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Angeles and that... Just that whole vibe was
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: just so rich with music and art and
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  Speaker 2: color and just... It's it's so different now,
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  Speaker 2: but I can be taken... I can be
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  Speaker 2: transported back there just by hearing those songs.
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  Speaker 0: Yeah. I had, Matt Axton, who is Hoyt
• 12:07
  Speaker 0: Axton's son on a while back. And his
• 12:09
  Speaker 0: dad was part of that Laurel Canyon sixties,
• 12:12
  Speaker 0: seventies and telling stories. And it, been an
• 12:16
  Speaker 0: interesting time to... As a teenager to have
• 12:19
  Speaker 0: been part of that, I'm sure.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I was a little young for that.
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  Speaker 2: My my, sister who's six years older, she
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: definitely was on the strip and saw, like,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: she saw cream at the whiskey or or
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: something like that. It was something crazy like
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Led Zeppelin. And, I mean, I guess my
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: biggest touch with that kind of era was
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: I actually bought chocolate chip cookies from famous
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Amos. Do you remember famous Amos?
• 12:46
  Speaker 0: Absolutely.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: He he would sell the cookies,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: and I would... We would buy them right
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  Speaker 1: from him.
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  Speaker 2: You know? And, you know, it's just so
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: cool. It was so great back then. And,
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  Speaker 2: I... I'm lucky enough to be in a
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: band right now. It's, that pays tribute to
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: the music for Laurel Canyon. And, it's called
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Lookout Mountain. And the band members include David
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Crosby's son, James Raymond, as well as, Kip
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Lennon. And if you're familiar with the Lennon
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: sisters, you might know who Kip Lennon is.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: He's the youngest brother of that... Of those
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: nine siblings.
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  Speaker 0: Well, it sounds like to me that I've
• 13:26
  Speaker 0: got a couple more guests I can reach
• 13:27
  Speaker 0: out to.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, you
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: could get... Yeah. Kip is fantastic. And and
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: James is great too. And our band is
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: is is gonna be out playing next year
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: at the Performing Arts Center. So kind kind
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: of excited because I get to do all
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the Joni Mitchell and the Carole King and,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: you know, I love those songs.
• 13:43
  Speaker 0: Carole King. In my... As soon as you
• 13:45
  Speaker 0: said her name, the Tapestry album popped in
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  Speaker 0: my head. I remember that as a kitten...
• 13:49
  Speaker 0: I can I could clearly see it as
• 13:52
  Speaker 0: soon as you said Carole King?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:55
  Speaker 0: Now you you said you went more the
• 13:58
  Speaker 0: rock and roll era as a as a
• 14:00
  Speaker 0: kid and played with some amazing people. What
• 14:05
  Speaker 0: what was probably the most fun tour you've
• 14:08
  Speaker 0: been on?
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. You know what's... Actually, what
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: a really fun tour, was Belinda Carlisle just
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: because the band was so great and, and
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: so fun. Everybody was so fun to hang
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: out with. But memorable tours also include, like,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: being in Japan with Michael McDonald and Christopher
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Cross because musically, hearing those two together... And,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, Michael McDonald is truly one of
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: my favorite singers in the whole world, and
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: he is the nicest guy in show business.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So every time I'd hear him sing, I
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: just would melt. You know? And I got
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: to hear him live. You know? I also
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: really enjoyed working with Tracy Chapman. She's pretty
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: intense as an as an as an artist.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: But, again, the band was great, and we
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: were touring some of the most beautiful venues
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: in Europe, like like, places in Taormina, Sicily,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: which were, like ruins up at the top
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: of mountains that were turned into these outdoor
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: venues that were so beautiful. So it's stuff
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: like that. I mean, my time in Japan,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: worked with a lot of Japanese artists, and
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I tend to get out in the country
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: and... Or on... Out in the city. And
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: if I... If there is a mountain to
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: climb, I'll find it. You know? I love
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: to hike and do things during the day.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: So just beautiful to be out in Japan
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: in places that you don't normally go to
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: if you're going into the city and finding
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: temples after hiking for three hours. You're at
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the top of a mountain. There's a little
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: temple, and you can sit and you can
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: meditate and and have these wonderful deep thoughts.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: So I feel really lucky that I got
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: to spend about thirty years doing that. I
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: really do.
• 15:50
  Speaker 0: Now had some of those trips inspired songs?
• 15:53
  Speaker 0: Because you obviously write and sing your own
• 15:56
  Speaker 0: music on... Not just tour with other
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: people. Yes. Yeah. I have... I've been inspired
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: by surroundings. I've been inspired by by things
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: that have happened while I've been on tour
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: or things that were happening at home, that
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I I I was able to kind of
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: look at from a different perspective. Well, a
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: beautiful song I was just talking about the
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: other day because I'm doing it in a
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: show that I'm doing, in a couple of
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: weeks, called take my time. It's about, you
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: know, taking the time to notice where you
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: are and be grateful and and taking more
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: moments in beautiful places that bring peace and
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: calm to you. And this one song was
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: written while I was in Telluride, actually doing
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: a gig during the Telluride Blues Festival. And
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: my girlfriend and I were hiking up in
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the rockies above the town at night with
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: a full moon, and the mist was all
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: around. And the music from the festival was
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: coming up, and I think it was, like,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: the nitty gritty dirt band or something. But
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: you couldn't really hear exactly what the song
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: was, but you could hear the music that
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: echoed around the canyon. And the moon was
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: rising and the stars were shining, and I
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: just wrote this... It was, like, such a
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: moment, and I just immediately went home and
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: wrote a song about, like, take the time
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: to notice. Look around you. Like, take a
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: couple of breaths and go, check it out,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: man. We're... This is beautiful. We're in a
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: beautiful... You know, we can be mad about
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, but there's a lot
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: of beauty around us and, you know, might
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: as well enjoy it.
• 17:24
  Speaker 0: Now is that song available somewhere?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's called Take My Time. It's off
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: a record called... Which I've never heard which
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: record it's on. Oh, it's on Fill Me
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Up, my... The late... One of my latest
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: records. Fill Me Up. And all my musics...
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Music is at kiki ebson dot com, and
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: that's it... Really the only place you're gonna
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: find it these days. I've, kind of pulled
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: off of the streaming networks because it's just
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: not... I'd rather bring... Drive people to my
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: site and have you really download my music
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: or come hear me live.
• 18:01
  Speaker 0: Absolutely. Live is always great. My wife is
• 18:03
  Speaker 0: a singer songwriter or That's why she was
• 18:05
  Speaker 0: in LA to be now. We live in
• 18:08
  Speaker 0: Texas, so she doesn't do it as much.
• 18:10
  Speaker 0: Hope she'll get back to it.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: A lot of music in Texas, though.
• 18:13
  Speaker 0: Yeah. There's some great music in Texas. Yeah.
• 18:17
  Speaker 0: Matter of fact, Chris Cross was born in
• 18:19
  Speaker 0: San Antonio.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: He lives in Austin. Yeah.
• 18:22
  Speaker 0: That's right. That's right. Now you're very... I'm
• 18:25
  Speaker 0: gonna I'm gonna assume visual in in the
• 18:27
  Speaker 0: way you described the the... Up the mountain
• 18:30
  Speaker 0: in the mist. I'm gonna go back to
• 18:33
  Speaker 0: the century of smell. What did your childhood
• 18:37
  Speaker 0: smell like?
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Well, I grew up actually in the place
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: where I live now, which is a a
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: ranch, a family ranch in Southern California. So
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: to me, the smell of my childhood was
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the native, the native plants, and specifically sages.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: And the chaparrales are just so aromatic here
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: in the canyon. And in fact, when I
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: do... You know, because I do work with
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: horses and people in a in a wellness
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: capacity, I usually pick, California sagebrush, which is
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: a beautiful smelling sage, especially when you crumple
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: it up in your fingers and you kind
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: of smell it like this. And one of
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: its properties, it's actually documented in in a
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: in a evidence based book about, native American
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: plants that it gives you a sense of
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: well-being. Just inhaling it is good for respiratory
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: issues and things like that, but it just
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: also just brings your nervous system into a
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: place of calm.
• 19:44
  Speaker 0: Now you're talking about horses. A lot of
• 19:46
  Speaker 0: musician relatives and people I have talked to
• 19:50
  Speaker 0: are big into horses. I grew up on
• 19:53
  Speaker 0: ranches. Talk to me about your, it's not
• 19:58
  Speaker 0: a charity, but you were saying your wellness
• 19:59
  Speaker 0: that you work with people. Talk about horses.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a nonprofit, and, it... It's a
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: it's a nonprofit that I created as I
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: started to, rescue horses, and that was probably
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: twenty years ago or so, twenty five years
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: ago. And what it is, it's it's it's
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: the Healing Equine Ranch. It resides on my
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: ranch, and it takes care of a herd
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: of nine horses. And we offer wellness programs.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: It's it's technically equine assisted growth and learning.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And I work... It... It's it's a way
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: to learn about yourself through the lens of
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: a horse. So when you're with them, there's
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of emotions and feelings and thoughts
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: that come up in their presence. Everything from
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I'm scared of horses, they're big and they're
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: unpredictable, to, oh my god. I love horses
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: so much, or I grew up with horses
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: or I always wanted to have a horse.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: But there's very little understanding about their language
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: and what is important to horses. Most of
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: our interaction with horses, you know, just over
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: the years, historically, has been through dominance and
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: control. So now we're work... Moving into an
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: area where we're understanding the language of horses.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: We're understanding their nervous systems, their brains, and
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: how their brains align with our brains and
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: how we can learn about our own nervous
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: system and our own ability to regulate and
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: self regulate and coregulate through the understanding and
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: the experience of interacting with horses. And that's
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: what my program is all about. It's called
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: natural equine interactive growth and healing. And I
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: work with everyone from, residential treatment centers that
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: deal with mental health and recovery and and
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: addiction. I also work with the, like, the
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: four seasons when they they do their wellness
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: programs. I have my own workshops almost every
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: weekend, and I have private clients sessions as
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: well.
• 22:07
  Speaker 0: I think I need to do it. My
• 22:08
  Speaker 0: wife is a horse girl from Texas, obviously.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 22:13
  Speaker 0: I like horses. I've ridden horses. I'm not
• 22:15
  Speaker 0: really good at it, but I'd like to
• 22:17
  Speaker 0: be better because I wanna be in a
• 22:19
  Speaker 0: western. But
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: You wanna be in a western? Well, you
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: know, it's... My my programs are on the
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: ground. No. Nobody's riding per se. At some
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: point, you could ride, but there's a lot
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: of consent based, you know, dialogue going on.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: If the horse doesn't want you to get
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: on their back, you know, if you're if
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: you're trying to hold them while you jump
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: on their back, that's just not safe. So
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: there's ways of leading up to it, where
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: they feel comfortable with you and you feel
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: comfortable with them makes the partnership so much
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: safer.
• 22:49
  Speaker 0: Yeah. Because I definitely... And sometimes I'm not
• 22:51
  Speaker 0: comfortable with that with horses. Yeah.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: And with all good reason too.
• 22:59
  Speaker 0: If you could pick one of your songs
• 23:04
  Speaker 0: that's probably not your favorite, but you would
• 23:07
  Speaker 0: love to see become a billboard number one.
• 23:11
  Speaker 0: What song would you choose?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that question. I think Better
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Friends is a smash. Oh, Candles. I have
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: a few. Can I say a few?
• 23:21
  Speaker 0: Absolutely.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Candles is always... People always said that is
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: a number one hit. Better Friend... Candles is
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: on the red CD. Better Friends is on
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: my beauty inside CD. And then I think
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: off my latest CD, Fill Me Up, Keep
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: You On My Mind, to me, is like
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: a country... You know, another kinda country hit.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: One more, Loudmouth Girl is also, like, a
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: really great girl's anthem, especially for, like, the
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: country western, market. So I think I have
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: a lot, and I'm still I'm still hopeful
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: that I will be discovered as this gem
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: that's been hiding out for years. Where's she
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: been all of my life?
• 24:06
  Speaker 0: Well, hopefully, this will open some doors. Is
• 24:11
  Speaker 0: there a question that I haven't asked or
• 24:15
  Speaker 0: that you wish other people would ask, but
• 24:18
  Speaker 0: they never do?
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I love your questions. Thank you. I really
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: do. I think you've been really succinct, and
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: it's like not... You haven't asked a lot
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: of questions, but you've asked really important questions
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: that have illuminated a lot about the complicated
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: dynamic of being the relative of somebody famous,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: which is, I believe, sort of the core
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: of this interview. Right?
• 24:47
  Speaker 0: It is.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: And I think maybe if there was anything,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: it'd be how do you find yourself? How
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: do you find your identity when the name
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: that you carry has so when the name
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: that you carry has so much, weight in
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: another direction? You know? And I was thinking
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: about that this morning because I find find
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: fame to be a tremendous... Possibly a tremendous
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: burden. I I saw my father navigated... Navigate
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: it beautifully. However, as he got older, it
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: was harder to keep up the name, you
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: know, and keep up the face and and
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the whole thing. And I think he became
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: very attached to his celebrity so that I
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: don't know how much peace he found at
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the end of his life, if that makes
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: sense.
• 25:37
  Speaker 0: That makes great sense.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And that scared me. I never... I
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: like being, you know, appreciated. I love getting
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: noticed for what I do. But when it
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: goes above and beyond what a mere mortal
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: can be, it it becomes dangerous in in
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: in many different ways. It's dangerous to your
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: psyche. It could be dangerous physically. So I
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: think finding my identity has been about not
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: denying that I'm Buddy Epperson's daughter, but that's
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: not all I am. I bring this whole
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: other piece. And now maybe I can allow
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: other parts to flourish that I've been hiding
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: because it's a little frightening to me. You
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: know? And now I feel like it can
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: really be all. I found an identity. I
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: love my music. I love my horses. If
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: if it turns into an an acting opportunity,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I... I'm fine with it all. Whereas before,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I was, like, strict about it. Like, I'm
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: only gonna do this, and I'm only gonna
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: do that, or I'm just denying that part
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: of my life. I'm proud of everything that
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: he's done and what my mother has built
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: with her theater. And my sister who was
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: an actress moved into... Now she's a writer.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: She lives in Arizona. And my brother is
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: a video editor, and my niece is a...
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Directs commercial. So there's been this beautiful sort
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: of outpouring of this legacy through our individual
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: work. And it takes time to figure that
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: out, and some people don't. Some people who
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: are living in those environments, I don't think...
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: I think they still struggle with, like, who
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: am I?
• 27:14
  Speaker 0: That's very, very true because I've I've interviewed,
• 27:16
  Speaker 0: obviously, a lot of relatives. And, like, I
• 27:20
  Speaker 0: was talking to Donny Osmond's son, Brandon, and
• 27:23
  Speaker 0: and I was talking to my sister about
• 27:25
  Speaker 0: it. You know, when the applause dies, as
• 27:29
  Speaker 0: you said, you you didn't think your dad
• 27:31
  Speaker 0: was... You think he struggled finding peace with
• 27:33
  Speaker 0: that. I love that you found peace. I
• 27:37
  Speaker 0: love that most people that on my show,
• 27:38
  Speaker 0: we're all trying to find, as I like
• 27:40
  Speaker 0: to say, making our own sunshine in the
• 27:42
  Speaker 0: shadow of a whatever the name might be.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 27:46
  Speaker 0: And you sound like you've got a tremendous
• 27:49
  Speaker 0: life. Sound like the family's doing great. I'm
• 27:53
  Speaker 0: gonna ask one last question because we're getting
• 27:56
  Speaker 0: close. Do you remember, was there a specific
• 28:02
  Speaker 0: Santa Claus Christmas gift that to this day,
• 28:08
  Speaker 0: sparkles in your mind?
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if it was a
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Christmas gift, but I do remember I... And
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: it's such a... It's funny. It's sort of
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: a cliche, but not... I remember when I
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: got my pony, my first pony when I
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: was five years old, and I was so
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: excited. I mean, it was just... It was
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: like everything you would think of with a
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: little girl. Like, when I when I heard
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: I was getting my own little... Because my
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: sisters had horses, you know, and they were...
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: These are backyard horses. These weren't... These were
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: not fancy horses. But, oh my god, I
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: had a pony, and it was the best
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: the best day of my life. I remember
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: just jumping for joy, jumping on the day
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: bed, just like, ah, this is great.
• 28:55
  Speaker 0: So, did you just kind of spend your
• 28:59
  Speaker 0: time between Newport and a ranch? Because
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We we, started off in Beverly Hills
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: when I was three. We moved down to
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Newport Beach, and we we stayed there and
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: got the ranch as a summer place or
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: a weekend place because my sisters and I
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: were into the horses. And my dad, you
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: know, he'd done all those westerns for Republic
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: films, and it, you know, occurred to me
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: later that, you know, his neighbors were Rex
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Allen, Bob Hope, Ronald Reagan, you know, twentieth
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Century to Paramount Ranch. So we moved into
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: this sort of Hollywood ish, you know, even
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: though we're way far away from each other,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: the Santa Monica Mountains, we just had so
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: much film history. And Edgar Rice Burroughs was
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: our neighbor, you know. And neighbors are like
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: a mile... Two miles
• 29:42
  Speaker 0: away. Yeah.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: But still, I got into showing horses. What...
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: That's what happened for me. And when I
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: was nine, I started to compete, and I
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: needed to be closer to the horses and
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: to that vibe. So I moved up here.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: It was weird because our family kinda split
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: between the two homes, and I think my
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: older sister actually raised me, actually, from the
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: age of nine on, which is not unusual
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: too. You know? So, but then I moved
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: up there permanently, through my teen years. Moved
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: out for a while, went to college and
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: all that, but then came back.
• 30:18
  Speaker 0: Well, sounds like there's a whole lot more
• 30:20
  Speaker 0: we can talk about, but I'm definitely running
• 30:22
  Speaker 0: out of time. I'm gonna call you Kirsten.
• 30:25
  Speaker 0: Kirsten Kiki Ebsen. Well,
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: if I were to be truly, full exposure,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: my first name is Nancy. Nancy Kirsten Ebsen,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: and I'm named after my mother and my
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: father. My mother's name is Nancy. My father's
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: name is Christian, and Kirsten is the female
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 30:47
  Speaker 0: Well, I am so grateful to have you
• 30:50
  Speaker 0: on, and and thank you for your time.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Hopefully,
• 30:53
  Speaker 0: I'll have your bandmates on, and we will
• 30:56
  Speaker 0: chat again, hopefully.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Alright. Thanks so much, Jeff. Nice to
• 30:59
  Speaker 0: meet you. Man, I really enjoyed that. Thank
• 31:02
  Speaker 0: you so much, Kiki, for being a part
• 31:03
  Speaker 0: of the show. I do hope I get
• 31:05
  Speaker 0: your band members on. I wanna thank everyone
• 31:08
  Speaker 0: for being a part of our growing success.
• 31:11
  Speaker 0: We're Relatively Famous. This is our season four,
• 31:14
  Speaker 0: and, we're excited about it. I wanna thank,
• 31:17
  Speaker 0: Nelco Media, our production team, and I wanna
• 31:22
  Speaker 0: thank Nelco Comics even though we're not there
• 31:24
  Speaker 0: today. We're at the Nelco office. It looks
• 31:26
  Speaker 0: a little different. But, hey, if you're looking
• 31:28
  Speaker 0: for comic books, check out Nelco Comics in
• 31:30
  Speaker 0: San Antonio. If you happen to be related
• 31:34
  Speaker 0: to someone famous or know someone related to
• 31:36
  Speaker 0: someone famous, I'm always looking for guests. So
• 31:38
  Speaker 0: you can reach out to me or if
• 31:40
  Speaker 0: you just have comments about the podcast. You
• 31:42
  Speaker 0: can reach out to me at podcast relatively
• 31:45
  Speaker 0: famous at g mail dot com. That's podcast
• 31:47
  Speaker 0: relatively famous at g mail dot com. And,
• 31:51
  Speaker 0: go check out Kiki's music. We'll put the
• 31:54
  Speaker 0: links in our... In the show notes. Appreciate
• 31:57
  Speaker 0: it.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: You've been listening to Relatively Famous with Chip
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: White. Please like and subscribe to Relatively Famous