Latest / Ridiculous History / The US Navy Teamed Up With Mobsters, Part Two: The Mob Goes to War

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The US Navy Teamed Up With Mobsters, Part Two: The Mob Goes to War · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Shout out to super producer
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Mr Max Williams. What what? Oh? Shout out to the
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: one and only Mr Noel Brown? What what? Hello? And
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: uh and uh. Shout out to you folks for joining
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: us for part two of a very weird story about
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: the US Navy and the mob. They called me ben
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Uh what? Thanks man. We had a we've got some
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: frenetic energy here, but this is a meaty two partner
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: for us and and off air or at the very end,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: I think it was of part one nal We had
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: promised to explain the name Baby Shacks. Yeah, Luigi, Baby Shacks.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Pinoccio is alive. He is. He's alive right now. He's
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: from Rhode Island, living out his twilight years and Martha's vineyard,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: no doubt. Uh. We figured out why he has the
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: nickname baby Shacks. For a while he was called Baby
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Shanks and that was incorrect. That bothered him. His name
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Baby Shacks and all you said it sounded like it
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: might be a little untoward every use. Well, he got
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the name for two reasons. First, people thought he had
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: a baby face when he was a youngerhood, but that
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: nickname was already taken, so they could call him baby face.
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  Speaker 1: And he had a reputation for quote shacking up with
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  Speaker 1: a cavalcade of women, perhaps of the underage variety. I don't.
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  Speaker 1: I I think just uh people who met in the
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  Speaker 1: mob lifestyle. But still baby shacks feels like a grosser.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: At one time, I was walking down Ponce where old
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: office used to be, and I heard somebody with one
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: of the most disturbing street names I've heard in a while,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Little Daddy. This lady was telling you stop right there,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: a little daddy. Yeah, maybe that was just a term
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  Speaker 1: of endearment. Perhaps I don't know. I'm uncomfortable. I I
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  Speaker 1: remained uncomfortable. But yeah, So this is where we're in
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Part two. We've kind of got the meeting of the minds,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: the aligning of some very unlikely partners towards a common goal,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: uh that being fighting the Nazis. Yeah, yeah, and we
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  Speaker 1: we set up a lot of the context for this
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  Speaker 1: thing that becomes known as Operation Underworld. We're just gonna
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  Speaker 1: dive right in. So if you haven't listened, to part two.
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  Speaker 1: Yet go ahead and pause. We'll wait and we'll see
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  Speaker 1: on the other side. Great, welcome back, welcome, welcome. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So I love how you set this up, because these
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  Speaker 1: really are strange bedfellows, right, this is like the wolves
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  Speaker 1: of the Lions working together. Perhaps some lambs in there
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  Speaker 1: as well. They've decided to truce and not eat each
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: other or at the very least, you know, mall each other. Um. So,
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  Speaker 1: this Underworld operation, Operation Underworld involves the underworld, you know,
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  Speaker 1: the world of organized crime. And we know even within
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  Speaker 1: the world of organized crime, you have these factions often
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  Speaker 1: aligned along ethnic kind of divides. Right, You've got the
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  Speaker 1: Italian organized crime, You've got the Irish organized crime, and
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: never the twain shall meet under most circumstances. But again,
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  Speaker 1: pretty universal idea that Nazis are bad. Um So this
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  Speaker 1: kind of became this sort of common cause that they
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  Speaker 1: joined forces with the governments who would be the greatest
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  Speaker 1: enemy of organized crime, you know, folks who would be
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  Speaker 1: normally seeking to put them away. And it's not like
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  Speaker 1: they're aligning with the FBI exactly, but still the Navy,
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  Speaker 1: you know, it's a branch of the U. S Military,
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  Speaker 1: which is all kind of interconnected in that same way.
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  Speaker 1: So we talked earlier about how could this work, you
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  Speaker 1: know down the line where if they're kind of cooperating
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  Speaker 1: and using their underworld connections in league with the government,
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  Speaker 1: how how could they be assured that this would not
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  Speaker 1: be one day used against them. I don't know that
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  Speaker 1: we necessarily are going to be able to answer that question.
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  Speaker 1: It does seems like that whole Nazi problem was enough
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  Speaker 1: to cause them to just kind of roll the dice
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  Speaker 1: on this one a little bit, right. Yeah, then, you know,
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  Speaker 1: we've all been in those situations, maybe not necessarily fighting Nazis,
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  Speaker 1: but where we find ourselves in cahoots with the strangest
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  Speaker 1: people right in our lives. And this happens across every industry,
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  Speaker 1: including the industry of crime. So we're setting up this alliance, right.
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  Speaker 1: The first guy to join in is the president of
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  Speaker 1: the International Longshoreman's Association, a guy named Joseph Ryan, along
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  Speaker 1: with his sidekick Johnny COCKA done m Yeah, he had
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  Speaker 1: a bit of a squint. So next, uh, we have
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  Speaker 1: um the high Lord Executioner as we talked about earlier,
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  Speaker 1: Albert Anastasia, and Anastasia was a big dog and he
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  Speaker 1: was you know, he uh struck fear into the hearts
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  Speaker 1: of even his allies. Um So it was a really
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  Speaker 1: big get to have him on board because he was
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  Speaker 1: kind of the power behind the throne, and with his
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  Speaker 1: word backing the US government, no one was going to
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: turned down any of these um requests for intel, right. Yeah,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: and so their coalition forms, uh cock eyed Dunne and
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: a guy named Jerry Sullivan are overseeing the west Side waterfront.
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  Speaker 1: A guy named Joe Adonnas partners with Frank Costello to
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: look at the Brooklyn side. And the guy's wife named Venus. Wait,
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  Speaker 1: what you know, don Venus and a donna? It's just
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  Speaker 1: Greek mythology, Yes, Donnas Venus. Okay, yeah, I'm with you.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think Adonnas is such a cool
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: last name, a cool surname that that guy probably didn't
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  Speaker 1: need a nickname totally. I bet he was a real
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: smoke show too. Um. So, you know, when you join
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: a union, you get something called a union card. You
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  Speaker 1: sign a union card. Um. So they actually that's sort
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  Speaker 1: of your ticket to the dance, right. And so a
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  Speaker 1: lot of these undercover naval operatives were issued union cards,
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  Speaker 1: which granted them a lot of access. They were able
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  Speaker 1: to infiltrate, you know, restaurants and bars and peers and
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  Speaker 1: truck depos and factories and various other of these mob
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  Speaker 1: aligned businesses because you know, I mean, the history of
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  Speaker 1: unionizing is very frost. We obviously know unions all at
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  Speaker 1: all are a good thing when they look after the workers.
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  Speaker 1: But they we know that from the start, with folks
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  Speaker 1: like Jimmy Hoffa, the Teamsters Union all that, there's always
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  Speaker 1: been this kind of mob influence looming over the history
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  Speaker 1: of organizing workers. So it does kind of give it
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  Speaker 1: a bit of a bad rap sometimes. Yeah, yeah, agreed.
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  Speaker 1: And the Longshoreman's Association played a huge role in this overall, right,
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  Speaker 1: that that sort of marriage of workers organizations and organized crime.
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  Speaker 1: The guy would mentioned earlier, Jerry Sullivan. He would later
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  Speaker 1: go on to describe how, I guess the best way
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: to put it is, you know, if you're a hammer,
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  Speaker 1: every problem looks like a nail, and the mob has definite,
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  Speaker 1: tried and true business practices, so they enforced things in
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  Speaker 1: a mob way. Uh. Sullivan says. Lasky was solving the
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  Speaker 1: problem for the Navy on the waterfront by the visible
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  Speaker 1: deployment of some of the most ruthless gangsters in the city.
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  Speaker 1: It was expected that the mere appearance of these men
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  Speaker 1: on the piers would serve as a deterrent, a warning
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  Speaker 1: to cooperate with the US war effort would face the consequences.
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  Speaker 1: So they were just intimidating, right, am I reading that right?
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: And you are totally reading that right. And by the way,
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  Speaker 1: this comes from a fabulous piece on Warfare History Network
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  Speaker 1: by Gregory Peduto project Underworld, The U. S. Navy's Secret
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  Speaker 1: Packed with the Mafia not so secret now, absolutely right.
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  Speaker 1: I mean they this was kind of a desperate times,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: call for desperate measure situation pretty much across the board,
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  Speaker 1: because you know, Mobster's gonna mobster. I mean, it's not
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  Speaker 1: like you're gonna all of a sudden start to to
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  Speaker 1: to play nice because you're working with Uncle Sam. And
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: in fact, that's probably what Uncle Sam wanted. You know,
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  Speaker 1: they wanted them to flex on their behalf so that
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  Speaker 1: they could ensure getting the most accurate intel from some
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  Speaker 1: very terrified, you know, individuals who knew that if they
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  Speaker 1: didn't cooperate that they would have hell to pay in
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  Speaker 1: the form of you know, busted kneecaps or worse. And
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  Speaker 1: this is this is still overseen by Commander Charles R.
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  Speaker 1: Half ended, and eventually this strange alliance creates a mercenary
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  Speaker 1: shadow army. This is oh, this is great. This reminds
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  Speaker 1: me of Shadow Run. Honestly. Yeah, there's just some real
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  Speaker 1: stuff that I want you to know kind of business. Yeah, totally.
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  Speaker 1: You got your street level thugs, the enforcers, the triggerman.
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  Speaker 1: You got people whose day jobs are murdering folks and
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  Speaker 1: other guys who are smuggling stuff. You got kingpins with
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  Speaker 1: international reach. There's a lot of violence because again, these
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  Speaker 1: guys have a very specific understanding of enforcement and they're
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  Speaker 1: not worried about, uh, the constraints that government employees would have.
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  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we see with you know, black
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  Speaker 1: sites and um, you know what like what do they
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  Speaker 1: call it, like ghost recon kind of you know, I'm
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: not I'm talking about video games, but you know what
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  Speaker 1: I'm saying, like a lot of these things where they
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  Speaker 1: disavow any knowledge of the operation in the event that
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  Speaker 1: someone's captured or discovered or whatever, and that is so
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  Speaker 1: that they can employ some tactics that are maybe not
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  Speaker 1: officially sanctioned by the US government, and that is absolutely
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  Speaker 1: on full display here under Commander Haffenden, who you know,
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  Speaker 1: couldn't have been blissfully ignorant to to to the fact that,
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  Speaker 1: you know, to make an intel omlet, you gotta break
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  Speaker 1: some arms and legs, oh gosh, and yeah, and definitely
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  Speaker 1: some next too. There's even there are specific examples. Commander
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  Speaker 1: Halfdan sent this guy cock eye done, and he said, hey,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: go look into these two, these two dudes that we
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  Speaker 1: think might be German agents, and uh he killed them.
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  Speaker 1: He just he went and killed him. Like, what do
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  Speaker 1: you mean I took care where you said take care?
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  Speaker 1: You said wink wink, nudge nudge, you know, uh yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and and and again. In that Warfare History Network article
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  Speaker 1: by Gregory Produdo, he had this to say. I love
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  Speaker 1: the way he framed it. Um. He referred to it
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  Speaker 1: as a mob land one way ride. It's never heard before,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: but you kind of know what that means. It's nice
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  Speaker 1: and descriptive. You're not coming back. There were also wire
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  Speaker 1: taps being deployed that we're recording some of the reports
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  Speaker 1: of some of these off the books operations. And here
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: is a quote from actually one of these, uh these taps,
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  Speaker 1: one of these recordings from I believe Mr Kak I
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  Speaker 1: they'll never bother us to get he said with dire finality.
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  Speaker 1: I think we know it that they'll never bother us again,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: because there I'm not gonna be around exactly. Well, the
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  Speaker 1: Navy did, officially, you know, kind of frown on this. Um.
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  Speaker 1: They just couldn't keep tabs on somebody like that. And
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  Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to change. He can't. He
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  Speaker 1: can't take the fight out of the mad dog. You know,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: you can't do it. And just the thing, Operation Underworld
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  Speaker 1: is a success. It works like warfare. History Network points out,
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  Speaker 1: once the mafia got involved and they had the coalition
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  Speaker 1: solidified and they had united everybody, there was not a
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  Speaker 1: single act of sabotage sus suspect fire that occurred. There
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: weren't even labor strikes, you know. I think I think
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  Speaker 1: the mob was treating this as um kind of a
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  Speaker 1: co sign from the government and whatever, and wanted to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: show that they were good at their jobs, which yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I mean good being a relative term here, and they
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: actually started kind of going a little rogue, right yeah,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: because remember Lucky Luciado is locked up, but he's very
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  Speaker 1: much alive, and he's reading reports about all these Allied
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  Speaker 1: victories and he says, I want to be part of
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  Speaker 1: the action. And he's he's thinking again in Mafio so terms.
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  Speaker 1: He's thinking, you know, I did you a solid I
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  Speaker 1: did you a favor US government. You know, you should
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  Speaker 1: be grateful because I I my people helped you over
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: there at the port. And uh. And he's thinking more. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they'll even owe me more if I step forward for
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  Speaker 1: active duty. He says, I'm gonna volunteer tact a scout
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: for frontline troops. I'll parachute into this is true, this
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: is crazy, right, I'll parachute into action behind enemy lines.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And then I'll use my influence to help turn the
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: tide of the war for the United States. Yeah. Uh,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and you know he he was right, he was reading
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: it right. The government was grateful. Um, they did look
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: at this as an opportunity. Um. And uh. It ultimately
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: ended up kind of working out, maybe not exactly the
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: way he had planned, but definitely in a way the
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: benefit of Luciano. By January, the Allies were operating and
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: offensive in the Mediterranean. Um. They had defeated the Italians
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and the Germans already in North Africa. Uh, and we're
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: now trying to open up a another front um in
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Europe to really put the screws to Hitler because the
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Germans were busy fighting the Soviets U in Russia. As
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: we know, they are a very very very important part
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: of this conflict to you know, in terms of like
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I think it was largely Russian troops that were the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: first to liberate the concentration camps. And this brings the
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  Speaker 1: mob back around because it addition to crime, the mob
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: knows another thing very well, the nation of Italy, right,
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  Speaker 1: and so there's this thing called the Casablanca Conference. Then
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: US President Franklin Roosevelt and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: get together. They chop it up, you know, they nash,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: they have some snacks, they jimpa Jabba, and they decide
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that the Americans are going to support Churchill's plan to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: invade Italy under Mussolini. The Allies are thinking Italy is
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the soft underbelly of Nazi Europe, and we've seen it
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: describe multiple times in previous episodes just as this. So
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: they say, all right, how do we do this? Well,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: if we want to really really sock it to Italy,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: then we have to attack the We have to attack
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Sicily first, and we're gonna do this with something we'll
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: call Operation Husky. Another fabulous resource for this one is
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Lucky Luciano and w W two's Operation Husky from the
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: History Reader. Dispatches in History from the St. Martin's Publishing
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Group by Tim Newark highly recommend a full read of
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that one as well. So they figured out where the
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Allies were going to position themselves, and Churchill then was
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: forced to admit that the Americans did have a pretty
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: big advantage when it came to the Italians because of
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: this situation. Yeah. Yeah, because there are a lot of
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: people in Italy who have a favorable feeling for America
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: or the United States specifically, and there are also a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: lot of citizens of the US who are of Italian descent.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: This led Roosevelt to write to Churchill and a telegram
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: and say, it is my opinion that our military problem
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: will be made less difficult by giving to the Allied
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: military government in Sicily as much of an American character
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: as is practicable. So so despite being Allies, I mean,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Churchill would not have been fully looped in on this
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: operation underworld situation, right, this is very much kind of
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: a back pocket kind of thing. Yeah, but they have suspicions.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: They have suspicions. And again, this you know, whole like
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Italian American you know, trust or whatever thing really is
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: just kind of a stand in for some of these
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: other things. You know, in terms of the position of
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: the mob in the United States, he would have been
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: aware of that at the very least. And you know
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: there were this organized crime in England as well. Uh.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And we know that Churchill had doubts because he did
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: agree with Roosevelt. But then he also secretly wrote to
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: the UK ambassador in d C and said, uh, I'm
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: not I'm not sure that all the Italian American connects
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Roosevelt is talking about are on the up and up.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like he's he's talking to his ambassador and
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: he's going, bro, I feel like they might be saus
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like they might be mafia people. And the
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: ambassador wrote back and said, Italian communities here have an
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: intimate knowledge and connection with Operational Husky and with Sicily
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: And he goes on to basically say, yeah, Churchy, I
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: hear you but we gotta do what we gotta do. Omelets, eggs,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: you know, arms, legs, hands, next, Ah, this this is
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: gonna be a great song once we get the beat done. No,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I defer to you on that one. Thanks playing I'm
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: on it so our cool improvised song. Aside, it is
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: undeniable that the Mafia is going to be evolved in
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: this because this is in many ways, this is pretty
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: much close to a home game for them, and there's
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: a very important factor here. The Mafia hates Benito Mussolini
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: for good reason. We talked about that at the top
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: of the show. You know, even though they many you know,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: these folks are are in America at this point, you
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: know obviously, but they've got family likely you know, at
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: home back in Italy. Uh and the kind of headquarters
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: they are working in league with UM you know, O
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: G you know Um Costa Nostra, you know, in in Italy,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: and Benito Mussolini is brutally cracking down on the Mafia,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: essentially causing them to have to go underground. So they,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: you know, for practical purposes, are really against this guy.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: So Luciano and some of his Sicilian pals, you know,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: back home are able to give the Americans some very
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: important information that helped aid their invasion. There's a report
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: from the Joint Chiefs of Staff that recommended this as
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: a kind of, you know, prerequisite for the invasion. It
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: advised quote establishment of contact and communications with the leaders
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: of separatist UH nuclei, UH, disaffected workers and clandestine radical groups.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Uh e g. The mafia. That's in it. I love
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: they said the quiet part out loud after saying the
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: little veiled kind of version of it e g. The
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: mafia and giving them every possible aid. Uh. And huge
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: shout out to all that's interesting dot com here and
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: um John Kurowski who who fact checked this article about
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Operation Husky how mobster Lucky Liciano aid of the US
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: in World War Two. Great site and great read. Yeah,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I love all this interesting And the US government goes
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: for it. They get with the mafia associates. Uh. They say, Okay,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: give us the pictures, give us the intel on the
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: coastline of Sicily tell about the harbors. They get all
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: this information. It's like, uh, it's like the mafia is
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: an honor student going for that extra credit essay. They
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: get all that they wanted and more and this information
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: is crucial to the planning of the invasion amphibious landing
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: in July. And believe it or not, some of these
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Sicilian we'll call them contacts, so it's not to disparage
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: their good name. Some of these Sicilian contacts get into
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: the wet work. They fight alongside the US forces against
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Germans and against Mussolini's Italian forces. And if you most
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: of the historical accounts you read about this credit Lucky
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Luciano that he had to connects. Again, like we said
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: in part one, the guy loved to organize stuff. This
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: is speaking to his skill set, you know. And it
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: is called organized crime after all, after all, they're pretty
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: they're pretty good at organizing. Lucky was exceptional. Even in
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: this rarefied air code name Operation Husky, probably wouldn't have
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: been as successful as it was without him. Definitely it
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: would have succeeded without the mob. And you can read
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: blow by blow accounts of how this went down and
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: how these these operatives when they were coming in from
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: the U S side, they got list of names of
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: people in different crime families, people hanging out in Sicily
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: doing different rackets, and those guys teamed up. I believe
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: it was a hundred and eighty one thousand soldiers from
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the U. S. Army, six tanks, four thousand vehicles, a
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: lot of artillery. They they stormed it and the people
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: at the very front were commander half of ins officers
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: from Operation Underworld. This was a Mafios production. So this
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Mafia safecrack. Paul Alfieri is a real b Any specialist.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: So during the phase of Project Underworld that took place
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: in New York City, UH, he was crucial. He was
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: a very important key player. Uh. He was what you
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: might call a cat burglar um and he was able
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: to infiltrate uh enemy safes and attain all of these
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: important classified documents, uh ciphers, you know, the keys that
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: you would need to crack you know, codes you know
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the enemy. This was a time where there wasn't really
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: encryption the digital sense that we know today, So it
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: was all about these you know, literal kind of like
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: codes and and and uh code breaking and all of
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: that was a really important part of military intelligence at
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: the time. Um. You have to have the key to understand,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: you know, the pattern and be able to like pull
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: out the actual intel from these uh, these these documents
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: that would appear as gobbledegook. So he actually earned an award,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: I guess a major reward, the elite, the Legion of Merits. Yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: So this is a mob guy who is raiding the
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: headquarters over in Sicily with the help of the U.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: S Army. Uh, and they say, Okay, we're gonna put
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: together a group of insurgents. We're gonna build our own army.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Because everybody loves Lucky Luciano in the criminal underworld in Sicily.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Every time they're asking someone for help, they bring up
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Luciado's name and boom hearts and minds, gentlemen. And this
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: plan to make an insurgent army would probably have worked
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: very well, but the timing was the timing was off
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: because other things were happening in the war. General Patton
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: beat them to the punch. On July twenty, he captured
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: the city of Palermo, the capital of Sicily, just two
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: hours before these other forces were do to come in
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: and wreck stuff. So, if anything, Operation Underworld was throwing
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: gas on an already healthy fire, right, And so just
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: thirty eight days after the invasion, Allied forces, including the Mob,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: succeed in driving Mussolini's forces out of Sicily, and the
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: battle for that part of Italy is over. It's done,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: they won, you know, and now we have to remember
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: here's what I think. I think for part of this. Yeah,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Lucky Luciado's patriot, he sees is doing the right thing
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: by the at least part of his pitch for him
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: going to Sicily in person was to get out of prison,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: right like, at least a little bit. Okay, this is
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: a guy who thrives on crimes of opportunity, I mean,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: no question about it. So he is okay, I'm glad
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: to say that because he's still trying to get out
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: of prison. This whole Sicily invasion that's dependent upon his reputation.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: It happens while he's locked up by the same people
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: he's helping. If you think about it, and uh, let's
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: go back to the mob. Attorney Moses Polakoff, very cool
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: name in May of Polakoff says, you know, my client
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: has done an invaluable service, has helped you win Sicily,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: has helped in a very real way, strike a blow
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: in World War Two, and I believe that should at
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: least get him parole. So the State Parole board makes
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a favorable report, and this report makes it to the
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: desk of the governor, a governor named Dewey who used
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: to be a former prosecutor who made his name by
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: arresting a ton of people in uh in Luciano's sex rings.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: My how the turntables, as they would say on the office,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: it would say office. That's very true. So January three six,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: the governor signed off on Luciano's parole. He had served
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: only nine and a half years of a thirty to
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: fifty year sentence. Oh how morality just goes out the
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: window and Uncle Sam has something to gain, you know.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: It really goes to show that it's all kind of
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: a it's a it's a very relativistic kind of way
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: of looking at um, you know, good and evil, right,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: and these very dewey. Governor Dewey is very careful about
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: how he phrases his decision. So Luciano, again, for those
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: of us, played a long at home. He had been
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: sentenced to thirty to fifty years in prison. At this
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: point he's been imprisoned for a little under ten years,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: nine and a half a long time, but still not
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: still not all the time. He was meant to serve.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: And this is what Governor Dewey says. He says, this
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: is coming to us by the from the MOB Museum
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: dot Org, which we're very much looking forward to visiting.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: He doesn't say this guy is great. He says, quote
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: Luciado is deportable to Italy. Uh pond entry of the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: United States into the war. Luciado's aid was sought by
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the Armed Services in inducting others to provide information concerning
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: possible enemy attacks. It appears that he cooperated in such
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: an effort, though the actual value of the information procured
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: is not clear. And he goes on to talk about
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: how this is definitely not a pardon because he's definitely
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: a criminal. Uh, and he's not, you know, a documented
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: US citizen. That's what he says. That's what the governor says.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: So we're going to give him a ticket to Italy.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And this is essentially like what a deport is being
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: deported kind of, but like in a good way, because yeah,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: it's like his sentences commuted, right. Uh. Yeah, it's weird.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: And a lot of Dewey's political rivals don't like it,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: you know what they say, They say, he got to
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: you the mob bribed you, that's why you're letting this
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: guy go. And it even goes into Senate hearings N
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: one and there were there's a lot of murkiness that
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: goes down in those Senate hearings, like a lot of
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: neither confirmed nor deny what Luciano did. What we see
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: here as a cover up begins, you know what I mean.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: The Navy doesn't want to say, yeah, we got we
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: got in bed with organized crime to win a war.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. But but again, you know, it's like the
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: dead ends justify the means and all of that. But
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: what happened when Luciano went to Italy? You know, did
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: did he go back to his old ways? He is
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: technically on parole, but for all intents and purposes, it
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: seems like he's kind of got a pass um. So
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: how did he conducts himself? Yeah, yeah, this is a
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: nice denu male to the story, right. So, like you said,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: he tries to lay low and his name eventually gets
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: back in the news and there are these rumors that
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: he is running a band of thieves known as the
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: La Marca Gang and they are kind of a Robin
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Hood enterprise, but they're running a human trafficking ring, and
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: there are gossip columns that says in Paris and he's uh,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: hanging out with an ex lover, former show girl named
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: gay or LoVa. And then there's other stories that say
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: he makes it to Mexico. It turns out a lot
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: of this is just scuttle but right, a lot of
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: this is just rumors. And you know, like when people
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: say they've seen Elvis or Kurt Kobain or Jim Morrison
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: or something. But there is one that or not to
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: be correct. In October of that year, Lucky Luciado made
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: his way to Cuba. He sure did. Um. At that time,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: the Mob was making waves into Cuba in the casino
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and hotel industry, specifically in Havana UM. So it really
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: was kind of a home away from home for old
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Lucky Luciano, and he was president at one of the
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: biggest mafia meetings in history, referred to as the Havana Conference,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, let's let's face it, the
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Mob is so ubiquitous and far reaching. At this point,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: they're kind of like their own government, you know, and
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: they operate again. At this point, they've they've leagued up
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: with the government. I mean, how much more um, I
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: guess validation do you need? And also just in terms
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: of like too big to fail or too big to
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: actually be brought down. It wasn't until many years later,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: with like Rico laws Um that they were actually able
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: to target the government was actually able to target the
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: mafia successfully, which is largely led to it holding much
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: less sway than it did in these days. But this
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: really was the kind of like, you know, heyday for
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: the mob. Yeah, yeah, very much. So his timing is great,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: and Luciado meets with these different mob big wigs, some
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: you'll recognize from earlier parts of this story, like Frank Costello,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: and he green lit a hit on a guy named
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Benjamin Bugsy Siegel because Seagull was not doing a good
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: job running the Flamingo Hotel in Las Vegas. And when
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: you work for the mob, you don't really have an
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: HR department who gives you write ups, so so he
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: killed up. But the conference was supposed to have ended
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: on a pretty good note. Uh for a second, Luciato
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: was once again feeling lucky, and then everything went wrong
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: because it turned out the entire time he had been
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: in Cuba Harry and Slinger, who was head of the
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: U s Bureau of Narcotics. And by the way, he
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: was a real pill not a good person. Uh. He
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: had been targeting Luciano the entire time he had been
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: had he had people following him. Uh. He was convinced
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: that Luciano was all the way back from Italy very
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: close to the US because he wanted to start a
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: drug ring and become king in the underworld again boss
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: of Bosses. Yeah, and I mean, and you know again,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that I know about this
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: scene came from shows like Poor Gum Bayer and movies
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: like The Godfather, and I know that it was, I
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: mean a big plot point. And The Godfather is like
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: getting into drugs was sort of a new thing at
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: the time, and like, um Don Corleone you know, didn't
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: want to do it. He didn't want to get into drugs.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Ultimately what led to his downfall because he wouldn't play
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: play ball with uh whatever that rival gang was that
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: was trying to get him to agree to do to
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: sell heroin and stuff like that because he thought it
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: was bad for the community. You know. Um, So this
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: idea of trafficking drugs really was relatively new for the mob,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and some folks weren't into it. Yeah, exactly right there.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: You know, you see this sometimes where people say, well,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: that's a dirty line of business, right, like we we're
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: just criminals. We're upstanding criminals rights, right, we have a code.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: We have a code. Yeah, yeah, like like thieves in
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: law in Russia. But so the news about the Havana
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: conference breaks in the United States, and it kind of
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: breaks because Frank Sinatra shows up at the conference. He
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: does that's the concert. Oh yeah, and uh and so,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: and Slinger is still like super mad about this. He's
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: kind of a hater. Uh. He goes to the State Department, says,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: you have to force Cuba to deport Luciado. The Cuba
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: government says, now, we're not doing it, and Slinger goes
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: over over everybody's head. He goes straight to President Truman,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: and Truman cracks this deal. They cut off shipment for
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: medicines to Cuba and they say, we're not going to
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: let these medicines get to your people unless you arrest
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: like I Luciado and send him, pack him back to Italy.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: That is greasy, that's dirty, pool Man and Cuba as
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: you can tell doesn't have a choice, so Luciado has
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: to get arrested. Yeah, it isn't interesting how like, you know,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: trade embargoes and all that stuff are used throughout history
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: as a as a way of, you know, collecting folks
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: for doing things you don't like. Yeah, and it's you know,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: it's it's morally very dirty because you're talking about collective
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: punishment innocent people, you know what I mean. But that's
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: that's the card they pull. And so it's February. Lucky
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: is arrested at a restaurant in Havana, and the head
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: of Cuba's secret police at the time says he was
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: arrested because they thought he might cause public disorder. And
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: then Lucky Luciado, who has a charming way of speaking,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: tells tells a reporter for a wire service U p I.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: He tells his side of the story, and he says,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: you know, if the Cuban government doesn't want me here,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I'll just leave. He says, quote, if I'm gonna have
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: trouble on this side, I'll go back to Italy. I
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: just want to be nice and quiet. I want to
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: be kicked around like this for no reason, which is
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: just I don't know if you didn't know all the facts,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: you could identify with him. And anyway, this pursuit of
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Lucky Luciado continues when he gets back to Italy and
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Narcotics has a campaign again stant
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: for the rest of his life until he passes away
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two. So what do you think, Crime Boss,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: War Hero? A little bit of column A, A little
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: bit of column B. I mean you contained multitudes, that's
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, this this whole story is bonkers because
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: it really shows again, you know, like I said before,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: the kind of moving target that is morality, you know
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: what I mean, Like the ends justify the means and
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Like it really calls into question
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: like is the U. S. Government really that different from
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: organized craft? Right? Dare I say in my best Rod
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Serling voice that doesn't even really sound like Rod Serling,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: but um, yeah, it really. I mean that's that's why
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I think the story is so interesting. It's such a
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: fascinating kind of intersection of these two worlds, both of
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: which are kind of populated by mercenaries and fox. Yeah.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: No true story, true story. And this is where we're
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: going to leave it today. What a ride? You know.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Shout out, not just to use super producer Max Williams,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: but shout out to all the amazing Mob nicknames. You know,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I don't. I think we should save the other strange
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: nicknames we found for a future episode. Uh, you got
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to do three. Let me do a couple here, Okay, yeah, yeah,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: let's see. Uh we've got Joseph Joe Bananas Banano, so
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I get it. Okay, Gay, we've got John Jackie knows Demico,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: like I think my personal favorite. Um, let's see, it's
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: really it's it's a it's a tough one. I'm gonna
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: go with Israel. Ice pick Willie. I pick Willie. And
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: his name wasn't Willie or will his name was Israel.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: That's great. That reminds me. I was talking to Max
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: off airman. Um. I can't remember what led to it. Uh,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: maybe were stranded somewhere on the road for really that time,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: want to win a little nuts and just like wrote
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: fifty nicknames for you and our pal Matt Frederick and
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: like insisted on pitching them to you, you know, insistence
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: require what um the well, to be clear, they were
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: not all winners, folks, but I think I think collectively, um,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: our favorite one was Maddie both hands Frederick two hands.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Not only two hands, he's got those, but he's he
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: uses them both in equal measures. Uh that there was
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I think, um, uh we maybe talked about this before,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: but there's an episode of Monty Python where there's this
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: composer being interviewed on like a chat show and his
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: nickname is two Sheds, and they go into this whole
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: thing about like how he has two sheds and and
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: he's like, I'm not here to talk about my sheds,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: and the interviewer it keeps, you know, diverting the conversation
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: back to insisting that he described his sheds as opposed
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: to me. I'm here to talk about my work, my music,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: not the sheds. Um. And also I think, like, you know,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: two hats is good. Maybe wears two hats. I like
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: nicknames with numbers, you know, there's a specificity to it
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: as well. It's like anytime I'm at a Chinese restaurant
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: and there's uh something on the menu that has a
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: number involved my three cup chicken, how specific? Sign me up?
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what's in the cups, but we
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: hope that you have enjoyed this two parter. We wanted
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: to start off strong with three. We hope your week
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: is going well and we can't wait. Uh, we can't
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: wait to be back with you next week. We've got
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: even more well. I mean, it's in the name of
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous History, sure is. And you too can
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: become a Ridiculous Historian. We'll give you your Ridiculous History
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Union card. All you gotta do is go to Facebook, uh,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: find the group Ridiculous Historians and boom you're in. And
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: with that, also want to thank Christopher Rajaciotis Eve's Jeff Coat,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Mr Alex Williams who composed this banging track. Who else? Oh,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Jonathan trick Yeah, of course, the Strickster, the trickster. He's
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: a very puckish figure. The quister. That's another trickster. God,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: we should know that by now. Um, we gotta yeah,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: he should be Uh, he'll'll be arriving any day now
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: he's been he's been bugging other podcasts. Um, but we'll
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: we'll have him back. So he's busy. It's it's he's
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: a busy man. It's not like it's our choice, but
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: it'll happen one Way or another um. In the meantime,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: you can also find all three of us on the
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: social media if you wish. I am at how Now
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Noel Brown exclusively on the Instagram. I neither tweet nor
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: uh nor TikTok uh. I'm still working on that Pinterest board.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: But um, I have a feeling it's a bit of
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: a fool's here. What about you, Ben? Yeah, well, of
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: course you can find me on Farmers Only. If that's
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: not your speed, go to Instagram. In a burst of creativity,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I've at Ben Bulling b w L I N and
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: can get a preview of all kinds of weird secret
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: projects that I'm currently working on. You can also find
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter, where I'm at Ben bullin hs W. Hey.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: You might say I don't want to go to Twitter
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: just to see you, man, I agree. I agree. The
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: only reason I'm on Twitter is because I hear Max
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Williams hangs out there. Yes, I'm hanging out there at
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: a t L underscore Max Williams. All right, let's go
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: in vade sicily, let's do it. We'll see you next time, folks.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Heart Radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: your favorite shows.