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The Delphi Murders · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: be your host Emily Simpson with my co host Shane Shane.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Just Shane, we are. I'm actually very excited about this
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: episode today. We are doing the Delphi murders which occurred
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: back in twenty seventeen and a rural town in Indiana, which,
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: if you guys remember, I'm from Ohio, so it feels
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: very Midwest to me, very homie like.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I understand, these are your people.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: These are my people, these are my people. However, I
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: did not know that much about this case before taking
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a deep dive into it to be able to record
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: this podcast today, because you know, I love to research.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I drive my producer nuts. I well, you drive me nuts,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I drive you nuts. But I drive her nuts too
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: because I text her constantly. I'm probably by far the
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: most annoying podcast client she has. Anyway, once I started
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: to dive into this case, it kind of reminded me
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: of Car and Read and I'll tell you why. We'll
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: get into it more as we go through this case.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: But upon the cursory review of this case, it seems
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: kind of simple. Whereas you have a murder, you have
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a double homicide. You have two young girls that were
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: killed when they're out walking on a trail. It takes
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: several years for police, they find the killer, supposedly allegedly.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: He goes to trial and he's convicted.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: You mean, if you look at the basic structure of it,
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: it's like murder, right, you know, capture suspect, conviction, one
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty years in jail.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Right, Oh, sorry, right, I mean.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Give him that thirty years. But then this case, once
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I took a deep dive into it, I was like,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: this is very very complex. There are layers. There is
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: this whole dark side that's going to that we're going
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: to talk about later. I feel like maybe there's some
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: conspiracies going on that are way more complex than meets
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: the eye. And that's really reminded me of Karen Reid,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: because remember when we first talked about Karen Reid, and
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I just gave you the facts of the case, it
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: was like they were out drinking, she got drunk, she
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: dropped him off, they find his body in the snow.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: It seems simplistic, like, of course she just hit. She
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: seemed guilty, right, she looks guilty. She seems guilty and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: then you'd take a deep dive into it, and it's like,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: there's all this question my question, conspiracy resulted more questions, right,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and I feel the same way about this case. But anyway,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: let's just do a brief synopsis of what happened in
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: this case. So on February thirteenth of twenty seventeen, best
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: friends Liberty who goes by Libby German, she was fourteen
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: at the time, and Abigail, who goes by Abby Williams,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: was thirteen. They went for a walk along the Monan
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: High Bridge trail in Delphi, Indiana. Now I know that
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: they had the day off of school and that I'm
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: not sure which girl, but an older sister dropped them off.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: The girl's bodies were discovered the next day in a
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: wooded area, which is close by the place where they
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: were last seen or where they disappeared. A major development
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: came when investigators revealed that Libby had recorded video and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: audio on her phone of a man approaching the girls
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: on the bridge, including his voice saying, quote, guys down
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: the hill. That recording became central to the investigation. However,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: for over five years, the case remained unsolved, despite national
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: attention public tips and multiple sketches released by police of
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the alleged perpetrator. In October of twenty twenty two, authorities
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: arrested Richard Allen, who was age fifty at the time.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: He was a Delphi resident who worked at a local
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: CVS and had no prior criminal record. Prosecutors alleged that
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Allan acted alone, though his defense attorneys claimed that he
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: is being framed. Law enforcements mishandling of this investigation has
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: caused many people to believe that Richard Allen is not
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the perpetrator and that the actual murderer or murderers are
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: still walking free. Now, if you want to dive deeper
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: into this, this is what I watched. There's actually two
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: documentaries on Hulu. There's one called Capturing Their Killer, The
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Girls on the High Bridge, and there's another one called
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Down the Hill the Delphi Murders. I watched both of
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: those on Hulu. Both on Hulu. I watched both of those.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: But you know, I also read there's a Frank's motion
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: that the defense attorney filed, which is one hundred and
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: thirty six pages, and I also read that as well.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Also watched a lot of YouTube videos and I also
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: like read it, so I took a deep dive on this.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: But anyway, let's get into it and discuss, and let's
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: just start with the timeline of events. First of all,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Libby and Abby go missing after being dropped off near
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: the Moan and High Bridge in Delphi. This is on
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: February thirteenth. They were there for about two hours.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: They were dropped off to hang out at the bridge
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: and they were alone.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: So they were dropped off alone to go for a walk.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I think their timeframe was two hours. And then I
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: believe it was the dad of Libby, which is the
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: one that was picking them up, and he went to
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: pick them up. I think it was like three point
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: thirty was the timeframe. I think they were dropped off
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: around one thirty and they didn't meet him at the
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: meeting point. So then they start searching. They start calling,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: they start calling friends. Nobody can find them. It starts
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: going into the evening. The police get involved. They're searching.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: The next day, on February fourteenth, this is twenty seventeen,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: their bodies are discovered in a wooded area close to
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the trail that they were walking on. It's important to
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: note now the crime scene is very important. The girls
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: were found in a wooded area, so Libby didn't have
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: any clothes when she was found. Abby had clothes on,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: but they were not her clothes.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: They were Libby's clothes, and they were close to each other.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: And they were close. They were positioned close to each other.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: They also whenever they were abducted and by whomever they
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: were abducted by, they went down, They go off the trail,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: they go down, and they also end up walking across
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: a creek to another embankment, which means that their clothing
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: would have been wet. He would have been wet.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: These footprints are How did they know this?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I believe because their clothing was wet and they're on
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: the other side of the creek. They had to cross
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: a creek.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, So their bodies are found based on the position
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: of the clothing. Obviously someone had to go that way, Okay, So.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Both of their clothing was removed. However, the corner the
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: medical examiners said that they couldn't find any evidence of
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: sexual assault. Now I don't know if there wasn't the
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: intent for there to be an essay and that it
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: just didn't happen. Because this is in the middle of
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: the day. I mean, we're not talking about nighttime. We're
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: talking about I mean, the girls were obviously pulled over
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: to a side of this wooded area that didn't have people.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: But we're talking about in the middle of the day.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: We're talking about like one point thirty in the afternoon. Yeah,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if the perpetrator or perpetrators was
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: spooked for some reason. Anyway, that's how the bodies were found.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: It's also interesting to note that the bodies were found
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: positioned in a very unique way. The girls both had
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: branches laying on top of their bodies, but the branches
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: were laid on top of their bodies, not in a
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: haphazard way where someone was just trying to cover the bodies.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: The branches were positioned in a very deliberate and distinct
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: way that actually made markings.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Like like like surrounding her on top of her.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Like an effort to cover her.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Though no, not in an effort to cover her. It
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: wasn't an attempt to take branches and leaves and cover
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: them to like hide the crime scene. It was a
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: very deliberate and distinct pattern that these branches are laid
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: on top of I haven't seen I've seen a recreation,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: is it?
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: So I was just wondering, is it like a design?
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Is it like like crisscross? Is it just three branches? Okay,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: so it's like a chalk out line of the two bodies,
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: and yeah, it's like crisscross pattern, but it's done kind
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: of almost like a star shape or kind of a
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: sparkly look.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: So then Abby also has tree branches that are placed
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: above her head that also look somewhat like a crown
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the tree next to them, so Libby is laying closest
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to the tree. And then the tree also has a
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: marking on the tree made in blood that looks like
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: an f So Abby was dressed in Libby's clothes while
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Libby was completely naked. Bloodstains were visible on the girls
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: on the ground and nearby the trees. Both girls had
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: suffered lacerations to their throats. Abby's body was three to
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: five feet away from Libby's. Libby's left arm was raised
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: above her head while her right arm was at her side.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Abby was lying on her back with her right knee
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: bent slightly and her right foot under her left leg.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Some of the branches were large, and a large tree
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: limb was left noted on Libby's left shoulder. Also, I
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: read that one of the branches had a very clean
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: end that looked like it had been removed with some
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: type of clockers or something like a saw or something.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: So again that goes to some type of the one
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: of the tree branches. I don't know, but if you
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: think about it, or it seems as if someone brought
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: the clippers.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but then they only needs on one branch, which
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: is odd. You can't disagree with me on that one.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: No, that is odd. I don't know why one of
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: the branches.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: If they're all done and oh yeah, he brought clippers.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: And again maybe that goes to also one girl's dress
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: and one girl isn't. I don't know if someone whoever
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: did this got spooked in some way, because again this
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: is in the middle of the day, and maybe there
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: were they were going to do more with the branches
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Anyway, Also, the police have been criticized for
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the way they handled this crime scene. There is no
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: DNA that was found at the crime scene.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: Wait, did we discuss the manner in which they died.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: They had their throats cut. They don't know exactly with
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: what they I've heard or I've seen them, possibly a
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: box cutter or maybe some type of knife, but something.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Were killed in the same way.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Both were killed with some sharp object to lacerations to
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: their throat. Libby's phone is found at the scene underneath
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: abbey and also allegedly I don't know, I say allegedly
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: because I don't know how I feel about this bullet,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: but there was an unspent bullet found between the two
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: girls and the ground. Now when I say unspent bullet,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: what does that mean?
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Unused?
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Right? Unused? It wasn't fired. It wasn't fired. It was
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And some people think or that possibly he used the gun,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: because the question is if he, if he used a
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: knife to cut their throat, how did he or whoever
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: abduct them off of the trail and get them so
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: far away without the threat.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Well, it could be just a knife. I mean, they're
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: little girls. Yeah, just a knife would be scary enough.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Some people think the bullet was left there because he
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: maybe had a gun that he brandished.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Wait, is only one bullet was found, one bullet, unspent,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: spent and they were not killed by a gun.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: No data was also extracted from Libby's phone. And this
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: is interesting too because I don't even know where this
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: piece of evidence can come in, because this doesn't make
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: sense to me either. But the data was extracted from
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Libby's phone that was found at the scene. Her phone
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: was found underneath abbey and it shows and the data
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: that her headphones or some headphones were plugged into her
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: phone at five forty five pm and then unplugged at
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: ten thirty two pm that evening. Oh wow, But her
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: phone was found at the scene, so I don't know.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I also I also read a little bit that maybe
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: possibly it could have been dirt that got into there
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: that activated the phone. I don't know, but I found
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: that very interesting that the forensics on that cell phone
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: show headphones plugged in at five pointy five and unplugged
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: at ten thirty two pm that night. So the next day,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: on February fifteenth, twenty seventeen, investigators release a grainy image
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: from Libby's phone showing a man walking on the bridge
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: behind the girls. There's also audio of that same man
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: ordering the girls, saying guys down the hill, and that
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: is later made public. Now here's the thing. When they
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: introduced that image of the man walking on the bridge.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: I bet they thought that immediately people would call and
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: be like, I know that person that.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: You can't tell anything from that image.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I know, And I think that's interesting because I'm telling you,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: if someone took a grainy image of you walking on
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: a trail, I don't care how grainy it is, I
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: would be able to tell if that was you or not.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: You would yeah, I.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Feel like you have just a distinct shape.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: My charming personality would just beam through the image.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: No, I just to me, even though the image is
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: a little is grainy, you can you.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Can't tell anything from that image.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: You cannot discern any facial feet, okay you're at all.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Maybe someone that knows this person really well.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: Might be able to because you kind of have that
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: memory right where you can identify people. But I'm not
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: going to look at it and then look at a
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: real person and be able to say that's him.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But I don't know. I felt like the police
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: when they introduced that image. I bet they felt as
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: if someone was going to come forward and be like, oh, yeah,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: that would be the point of releasing the image, right,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: But the fact that.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: No one came about is that what you're gonna say.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it just when you look at it, you
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: cannot make out any facial features at all. He also
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: has on like a blue car heart jacket and jeans,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and everyone in the Midwest, where's car hearts and jeans.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: It's like if someone released a photo of someone with
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: bared shorts and rainbow sandals here in county?
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Have you seen this man?
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: It's like, that's what everyone looks like here, all right.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Some of the initial suspects, first of all, was a
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: man named Ron Logan. He actually owned the property where
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Libby and Abbey's bodies were found. The FBI later obtained
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: a search warrant for his property, this is in March
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: of twenty seventeen, citing inconsistencies in his own and he
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: had a prior criminal history, including d UI convictions, but
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: they did not connect him to the murders. Also, in
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: one of these documentaries I watched, I don't remember which one,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: but there's an interview with an ex girlfriend of his,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: and she basically says that he was violent, that he
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: raped her multiple times, that he was a violent man,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: and that he had an interest in young girls and
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: he liked branches.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: What's the ex girlfriend of course she's gonna mean it's
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: a little biased, but.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Of course is biased.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean he's a murderer, It doesn't.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: But it means that he has a propensity for violence.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: And I don't know.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Anyway, Yeah, it doesn't look good, that's for sure. Definitely
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: a person of interest, right, So to.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Me, Ron Logan would have been more of a viable
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: suspect than Richard Allen. But Ron Logan they ended up,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, have.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Them on his own property though, Well, it's a huge
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: piece of property.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. I wouldn't want to oil on my property.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Again, I tend to eliminate crime scenes from my property.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: You don't, Yeah, it's a policy I have.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: So.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Then, in February twenty fifth of twenty seventeen, authorities executed
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: a search warrant for a fake social media profile called
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Anthony's Shot that was used to solicit underage girls online
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: around the time of the murders. Investigators eventually identified this
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: guy's name was Keegan Anthony Klein, who admitted to police
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: that he used fake social media accounts to contact underage girls.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: He said he would often find them on Instagram before
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: moving conversations over to Snapchat. Authorities later confirmed that one
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: of his online profiles had interacted with Libby Jerman right
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: before her death. Despite that connection, police did not find
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: evidence that he was a suspected murderer. I saw interviews
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: with him too. I don't think he's a murderer. I
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: think he's just he's a sick a pedophile. He's just
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: a pedophile and he's.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: In Wow, he's criminal. He's not related to this, right,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: He's a criminal.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: He's a pedophile. He had done images of underage girls.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: He was contacting underage girls. But he seemed more like
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: an introvert hermit, not the type that was out, you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: committing crimes, so they moved on from him.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: He is a keyboard criminal. Right.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: In April twenty seventeen, Ron Logan, the owner of the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: property where Libby and Abby were found, was sentenced to
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: four years in prison for a probation violation, which was
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: not in connection to the Delphi murders. He pleaded guilty
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: to a felony charge of being an habitual traffic violator
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: after admitting to driving with a suspended license and consuming alcohol.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Both were violations of his probation so then Ron Logan
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: ends up dying from COVID. So this is July seventeenth
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: to twenty seventeen. Police released their first sketch of the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: suspected killer. They said the suspect had reddish brown hair,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: stands between five foot six and five foot ten, and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: weighs between one point eighty and two twenty pounds. That's
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: a huge yeah, and appears to be around forty to
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: fifty years of age if you look. I don't know
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: if you've ever seen the sketch. This is the first
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: sketch that they.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: That they offered, and it looks like, well, let's describe.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: It looks like a stocky guy. It's only a headshot.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: It looks like he could be stocky.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: He looks just like if you were gonna say, draw
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: someone from the Midwest.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like he could be anybody.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: He could be anybody.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: He's like anyone America.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he just seems Middle America, Midwest Indiana to me.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: And that is a big range between five foot six
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: and five foot ten, And I don't know. So that
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: was the first sketch.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Then, wait, what was that first sketch based on? Was
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: that based on the crappy video.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: You know that is based upon an eyewitness account that
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: allegedly saw this man walking on the bridge. And then
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: in April twenty second of twenty nineteen, two years later,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the police offer a new composite sketch of the suspect,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: saying it's more act accurately represents the person wanted for
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the murders, and that the man in this sketch is
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: clean shaven and appears to be around twenty to thirty
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: years of age. And this is completely different, completely looks
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: like Matthew Perry. It's completely different, completely different. In addition,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: they was not wearing a hat, No, it was he
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: not wearing a hat. Well, I don't know. So in addition,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: they released video and extended audio from Libby's phone recording.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Was it based on the same witnesses, They're like, oh wait,
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: I remember he.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Did shave and he didn't wear a hat.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's different. There were some girls at
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: the end of the there were some girls on the
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: bridge that were eyewitnesses that gave an account of a man.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: I think that was the first one. There was another
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: woman that was also present that gave an eyewitness account
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: of this younger man.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: So well, granted there's people on the bridge, although you
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: were saying a person like that looked like this that
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: was on the bridge.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The problem is is that it looks to me
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: like a lot of police incompetency. If you go back
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: to the crime scene, there's no DNA found at the
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: crime scene. The sticks that were placed on the bodies,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: they didn't test any of those branches for DNA.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: They didn't know, they didn't. Oh, did they do any
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: DNA testing on anything?
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Well, on the girls, but there was no DNA found
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: on the girls and there was no sexual assault found,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: so there was no seamen that they could test.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: So generally speaking, they were just murdered and then configured
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: in that way with their clothing and.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Twigs, right, and then there was no DNA left behind
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: or why could there be no DNA left behind?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of activity.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: It is a lot of activity, and that's my question.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I also read somewhere or maybe I saw it in
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: one of the documentaries that there when they initially found
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the girl's bodies, because there was a lot of people
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: looking for them, that there were a lot of people
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: trampling through this crime scene and walking through it. I
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: don't know if people picked up the branches and threw
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: them to the side because they.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Get in similar to was it the Careen Reid one
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: where you think in small town was a Karen Reader
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: whatever one we did where it was small town. We
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: figured it's like low budget, they're not really taking it
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: very seriously and securing the premises, preserving evidence, looking into
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: it all. This is sloppy so far, Yes, this is
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: very sad.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: So in January twenty twenty two, Ron Logan, who was
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: still a suspect, in the public size because you have
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: to realize this case became so huge. It became very
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: popular on social media and there were a lot of
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: online sluss This is why this case got so much
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: publicity is because people became very invested.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Why were they very invested in it?
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Well, one, they're invested because you're talking about two young
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: girls that were murdered. You're talking about two young girls
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: that were murdered, and they didn't find anyone quickly.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: I feel like in a situation thinking it was also
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: like this history of this place, probably there's no murders
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: like this, so it's out of nowhere, it's unfounded. And
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: then it's kind of gruesome. It's they're slit their throats
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: and then like never to be seen again kind of thing.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Like the suspect, right, and it's taking a long time
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: to solve. So all these online sluics become very investigated
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: it also are very They become very investigated, not investigating, invested, invested,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: not investigated, very invested in it. Also, you have to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: realize when they when they released the image of bridge Guy,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: that just sent the Internet into a flurry because everybody
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: was analyzing.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: The actual image of the actual image.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: The actual image of bridge Guy sent the Internet into
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: a just a flurry. Everybody was sharing it, talking about it,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: you know, the audio, people were analyzing it. It's just it.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: So so many people around the globe have become invested
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: in this case. Then let's get to Richard Allen, who
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: has actually been convicted of killing the girls.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: But let's spoiler.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Let's back up. Let's spoiler alert. Let's back up and
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: figure out how he came into the picture. First of all,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Richard Allen's name never came up for years in this investigation.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: No one gave a tip. No one said he did it,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: no one said he's suspicious, no one said look into him.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: His name is never on anyone's radar. His name comes
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: up later, like five years later, because he was at
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the trail that day when the girls were abducted.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: So from twenty seventeen to I think twenty twenty two,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: so it is five years to twenty twenty five years,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: no leads, no, nothing.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Nothing that has to do with Richard Allen.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Well, nothing has to do with any suspect, right.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Well other than this they're releasing.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean yeah, no other name has popped up, right,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: just Richard, and not till five years later, right.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: So what happened was five years later there was a
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: volunteer I guess at the police department going through the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Delphi murder case and she comes across Richard Allen who
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: called and gave and gave a tip that he was
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: there that day because he went home after being on
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: the trail. His wife was talking about these two girls
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: that were missing. He said, oh, I was there today,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: and she said said, oh, well you should call the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: police and offer to help. So he did. He called
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: the police and said, hey, I was there that day
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: if you want to ask me any questions, and apparently
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: he met with they called it a conservation officer. I
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: don't know exactly what that con the conservation officer. He
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: goes and he meets with Richard Allen and they have
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: a brief conversation. He says he was there that day
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: and he's really just offering his help. They write down
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: this information. It gets filed away, It gets filed away
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: in the wrong place.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, I just looked up what conservation
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: officer is?
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: So? What what is it that this conservation he went
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: out to meet with Richard.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Richard Allen called the police and gave a tip about himself.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: He said, I was there that day on the trail
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: if you want to ask me any questions.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So let me read.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: What a conservation officer is is a lawn enforcement officer
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: who focuses on protecting natural resources, wildlife and the environment.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: Why would you send someone out like that to investigate
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: a murder?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: So, see, it was important. I looked it up, I know.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: But here's what I think. I think because they had
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: so many tips, get I get it that they probably
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: outsourced a lot of those tips to other.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Areas and what other sloppy behavior and investigation was done.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: So anyway, back to his tip.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Like, we spent the parking meter lady to investigate the
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: photographs of the crime and collect samples.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Right, that's why there's no DNA. Yes, okay, So we're
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: at the conservation officer. Okay, again, he leaves a tip.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: The tip gets filed away, and it gets filed away
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in the wrong place.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Then, as is typical with conservation officers.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know who filed it. Anyway, it's filed in
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: the wrong area.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: The probably didn't want to waste the paper writing it down.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: It's probably what it was.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Five years later, there is a volunteer at the police
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: department who is going through the Delphi case and is
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: going through the files. She finds this tip. It's filed
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: in the wrong place. Richard Allen called gave a tip
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: about himself, puts himself at the scene of the crime.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: She takes it to whoever the investigator or whatever and says, hey,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: this guy said this was all looked into.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: It was just a number at that time.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So they call him and they bring him in.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: So this is October thirteenth of twenty twenty two. This
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: is his first interview.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Five and a half years later.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: So out of nowhere, it is revealed to the public
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: that Richard Allen, a Delphi resident working for a local CVS,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: is taken into custody. His first interview is on October thirteenth.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Now I watched this first interview, interrogation, whatever you want
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to call it. You can tell the man comes in
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: because he's just there to answer question.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Now, he's not really a suspect, he's just he's just
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: a witness volunteering his time to answer questions.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: They're interviewing him, and the beginning is jovial, right, It's like,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: how you doing. He's there, He's like, how can I
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: help you? Let me answer?
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Sorry, we've been a little busy.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Right then that you can tell it starts to shift
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: because they start to ask him if he you know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: they show him the bridge guy photo and say like
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: do you have a coat like this? Do you? And
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: then you can tell like something switches where he's like,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: well wait, I'm not here to just yea answer. Now
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: you're you're treating me like a suspect. And you can
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: tell his behavior, his demeanor changes, And I will tell
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: you this is just a gut feeling. I find him
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: completely believable. I think he's there to just answer questions
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and to help. And then when he realizes that they
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: think he's a suspect and they're asking him about what
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: he's defensive. He wasn't defensive. He was just well, I mean,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: he comes a little change.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: How did it change? You mean? He was just more
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: protective of his yea, he was.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Like, wait a minute. You know, you guys think I'm
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: a suspect, Like I didn't do it. It has nothing
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: to do with me, you know. And I believed him.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I found him to be able. I thought his body
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: language was believable. He didn't seem deceitful, he didn't seem
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: like he was trying.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: To based on your years of experiences.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: All my years of FBI training and forensic files, rhysic files,
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: that is my analysis anyway from what I said, is
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: this my opinion? That was my takeaway from that. Also
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: what drives me nuts. And let me just tell you this.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: If you're listening, if you are being interviewed by police,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: ask for an attorney. You do not have to know.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: You say, am I being detained against my will? If
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: they say yes, then you say I want an attorney.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: If they say no, then you say Okay, goodbye.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: He kept saying, either arrest me or let me go home.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: But that is not the key.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: You folks, your You can't even say your your rights
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: for an ane attorney. You can't even say I think
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I should talk to an attorney. No, you have to
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: be known as I want my attorney right.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: And let me tell you something. Any time that you're
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: being questioned.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: At least, are not your friends.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: They are not your friend. I don't care how nice
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: they are. I don't care if they bring you a
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: coke and a sandwich. They are not your friend. Asked
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: for an attorney, have an attorney president.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: They're there to investigate and find a criminal.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I felt badly that this guy went through a lengthy
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: interrogation with police with no attorney present twice. Then they
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: bring him back on October twenty sixth, and this is
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: the second interrogation. This is after I believe they've issued
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: a search warrant and they've found a gun in his house,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: and they matched the gun in his house to the bullet.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: But they match it with those just the striations on
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the bullet, unspent the unspent bullet. I don't know how
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I feel about that. I know that there's some friends,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: some science involved in that. I would call it maybe
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: a pseudo.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Sign, probably not as strong as a fired bullet that
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: then went through the chamber and has lots of distinctive markings, right,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: it had that you can then replicate with another firing
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: of a bullet to match it exactly.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: This is an unspent bullet, had some markings on it
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that allegedly matched a gun that they found in his house.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: He had guns and knives. To me, it seems weak
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: at best. And the second interrogation on October twenty sixth,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: again he doesn't have an attorney present, and they're showing
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: him the photos of the bullets and how it matches,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and he just looks completely defeated. He's like, I didn't
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: do this. I don't know what. Tell you, arrest me whatever.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: At this point, he's fifty and he's a family man,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: and he has a kid, and he has a wife,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: and he's honest.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Family man isn't really a sign.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: No, it doesn't, because the Long Beach killer was a family.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: No, I'm just telling you he's single. He must be guilty.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: No, I'm just telling you information about him.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: All that's fair.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: What I find interesting though, and compelling to me is
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: that he has no criminal history at all. None.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you what, because I did read a
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: little bit on this. He worked at CVS right for
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: like a long time I think, and they blasted this
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: photo everywhere, and you told me it was everywhere. Everyone's
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: talking about it's small town, but it's national or whatever,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: and no one was able to point to the guy
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: that works at probably the only CBS in that town.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only Insie, it's him, right, No one that
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: to me is telling.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what else is telling. Richard Allen is
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: five foot four and when you read the eyewitness accounts,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: But then there's a five to eight to what'd you
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: say earlier?
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Five like five eight to five ten or something, but
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: or five six to five ten.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Five four is significantly very short.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: How tall are you, Shane?
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Not five four?
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: How tall are you?
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Sha? Tower over five four? Shane? My license says I'm
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: five to seven. Okay, leave it at.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: That, all right? Shane sends it as five to seven.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I would say that if I were describing you, or
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: someone was describing.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Five four stands out, they would say you were short, right,
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: not tall? Right. Okay.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Again, I feel like if someone was described.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Because there's tall, there's average, there's not tall, and then
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: there's short.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, Richard Allen is short.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Five for short is like anyone would describe that.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: As short exactly, And when these eyewitness accounts describing they
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: don't say extremely short. I'm sorry, but five four is
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: extremely noticeably short, right, that would be to me that
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: would be the first characteristic that you would notice that
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you would say.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Police also found a blue car Heart jacket in Richard's
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: home that seemed to match Bridge Guy's jacket and thought
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: his appearance voice matched what Libby had recorded that day. Again,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: we talked about this. I bet you could go into
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: ninety percent of homes in Indiana and they would find.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: That's what the defense should do, a cart find out
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: what the sales is at the car Heart store.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Because to me, that was just your basic Midwest February
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: timeframe out outfit. Anyway. Okay, So they arrest him, take
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: him into custody. This is also interesting to note when
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: they arrest Richard Allen and they take him into custody
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: before his trial, he is not put into a county
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: jail like you would normally, be you're innocent until proven guilty,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: you would be put He was put into a prison,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and he was put in solitary confinement, and this is
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: before he was convicted. I believe the reasoning was, or
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: at least the reason they said was because they it
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: was for his own safety. But I don't know if
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I believe that so wild.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: It could have been overcrowding. That would have made more sense,
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: although still not okay, But.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think there's probably I don't know.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I just I got really deep into this and I
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: feel like maybe they.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Were they get to it. Yeah, it was definitely driving crazy.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: So throughout twenty twenty three, while incarcerated, Richard Allen admits
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: to killing Libyan Abbey multiple times, but family members and
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: his defense team argue that these statements cannot be trusted
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: as his mental state was quickly deteriorating. All right, let's
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: talk about these confessions. First of all, he's in solitary
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: confinement in a maximum security prison. He's naked a lot,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: he takes his clothes off, and he eats his own feces,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: and he's also confessing I did not read that isad.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: The man is in his own.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, it doesn't matter whose it is.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I was just clarifying.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, well that shows he's not of normal mind exactly.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: So these confessions, and I put confessions in quotations, confessions
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: air quotes are coming while I think, we're watching a
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: man deteriorate and break down. And if you see him
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: during this stage, he looks like a completely different man
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: than he did when he was first interviewed. He's lost
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: a ton of weight, he looks broken, he looks so
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: he Also, when we're talking about confessions, he also confessed
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: to killing his grandchildren, and he doesn't have grand grandchildren.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: And he also confessed to killing other doesn't know left
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: from right exactly.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: So the confessions, that's a good tip if you want
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: to try to like destroy your credibility to say I
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: killed my own grandchildren when you have none. Yeah, they'd
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: be like, you're on her. I clearly didn't know what
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I was talking about.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Well, they also claim that he knew details of the
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: crime that released that weren't released. However, the psychologist that
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: was working with him was a huge true crime fan
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and she was obsessed with the case, and so she
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: was always on chat rooms and read it and everywhere
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: reading about this case. And so it's very plausible that
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: she was having conversations with him about information that was
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: out there. And I think one thing in particular was
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: there was a white van, and that he talks about
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: how he was spooked while he was murdering them because
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: there was a white van that he saw. I guess
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: that was also public information, and maybe it came from her,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe it was somewhere out there.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know who cares. That's dumb.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: It matters when it's like how they were killed, or
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: maybe maybe, for instance, there was something underneath the body
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: and that wasn't released to the public on purpose, by design,
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: and then he could he could say that, but like
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: a white van, I don't know.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Well, the white van was used to establish a timeframe,
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: but I don't know.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: This is not strong for me to say.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I just feel like with these confessions and a lot
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: of people say, why would someone confess false confessions? Happen?
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, a lot, And I'll tell you.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I looked up a statistic. In twenty twenty four, the
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: National Register of Exonerations found that one hundred and forty
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: one people were exonerated from wrongful convictions with thirteen percent
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: of those from false confessions. And also, I don't know
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: if you remember, but I also work a lot with
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: the Innocence Project. A couple of years ago, I did.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: I met with one of the people that I've met
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: through there named Terrelle Swift, who was incarcerated for twenty
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: years for a crime he did not commit because he
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: confessed to the crime. I know it happens, yeah, and
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: he was young, he was a teenager.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're sitting in an interrogation room for like
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: sometimes like twelve hours.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was interrogating ridiculous. He had no attorney present,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: no parents present. They interrogated him for hours and hours.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: He signed a false confession and then.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: That and I'm sorry, but you have all these people
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: in uniform he did it, and then threatening you making
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: And then they say they can lie, which I think
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: is horrific. They can lie and say, oh, we found DNA.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Then you're thinking, oh, crap, did I was I there?
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Did I do something? Maybe I should confess? Because they
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: always act like they're your buddy. They're always acting like,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: c mot, I know you're a good person, you just
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: did a bad thing. They always said that, right, it's like, no,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: bad people do bad things, right.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Well, my takeaway from Richard Allen in these confessions is
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: that this man, in my opinion, from what I've looked
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: through and read, is not the killer. He's put in
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: solitary confinement, he's taken away from his wife and his daughter.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: He didn't do this, and he's had a mental breakdown.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: And how long was he in confinement before he was
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: found guilty because he wasn't released on bail, right, it's
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: two years.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So Richard's defense attorneys file a Frank's memo to
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: support their request for a Frank's hearing. So his defense
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: asks for a Frank's motion, which is basically they were
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: asking the judge to set aside the search warrant because
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: they said it's really the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: They were saying that when the investigators filled out the
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: search warrant that they omitted information that they should have
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: given to the judge to consider before.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Signing all secured the warrant.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: So they're saying that this right, that was a good
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: way to say it, that this search warrant was falsely
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: secured by omitting evidence and not allowing the judge to
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: know that there were other theories of who could have
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: murdered these two girls, and therefore the search warrant was
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: invalid and therefore everything found because of the search warrant
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: should be thrown out. Right, So I pulled up.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: That's the fruit of the poisonous right is then anything
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: derived of it? Generally there are exceptions to it, but
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: we'll forget that for now.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: But anything derived of that warrant is now inadmissible in
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: court exactly.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: And what they would want to do is they would
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: want the bullet to be admissible because that's really the
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: only piece of evidence they have against this guy. So
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: if they can show the search warrant was invalid because
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: information was omitted, then the gun would not be allowed
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: to be brought in his evidence. And then you can't
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: match it to the bull which is really the only
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: piece of evidence they have against this guy.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: They have no day photo and a.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Grainy photo that maybe kind of looks my account. It's
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: terrible evidence, it's awful of it.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: It doesn't even if he did do it, if you
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: had a crystal ball that said it was Richard. Yeah,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: there's still not enough evidence.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: There's not no not in my mind, if I sat
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: on that jury, I would have never convicted the man.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: No.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: So this Frank's motion had a memorandum attached to it.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: That's one hundred and thirty six pages. I read the
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: whole thing and it was the most interesting thing I've
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: ever read. If you are a true crime fan, I
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: suggest you go google it. You can find it. It'll
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: pop right up. You can read it. It reads like
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: a novel. It doesn't read like a legal document. It
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: reads like a true crime.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Can they search for it? What would they search for?
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: You just put Dolphine murders and put Frank's motion Frank.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Like the name Frank.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the name Frank, and it will pop right up.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: It's one hundred and thirty six pages. It was drafted
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: by the fence. It's in response to the search the
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: search warrant. It talks about how there's information omitted as
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: far as eyewitness accounts and things like that. I won't
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: go into that deeply. You can look into that because
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: I really want to talk about the Odin report, which
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: is the most interesting thing I've ever wait.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: So, what was what was the judgment on the Frank Oh,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: it's denied.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Just denied, denied, which is like right, So in this
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Frank's memo, and there's other things that has to do
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: with eyewitness accounts and how the there was information omitted
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: from eyewitness accounts and things like that. I'm not going
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: to go into that. I really want to focus on
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: this Odin report. So allegedly or apparently or no, this
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: is actually true. While when the police found the crime scene,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: there were some police officers that thought immediately that this
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: crime scene had evidence or looked as if it was
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: a ritualistic killing.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Well, it's definitely not.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: Slot It's not like just violent killing and then run
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: away because the way it was placed, right, Yeah, you know,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: this reminds me of a story when I worked at Target.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to hear it.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Not right now, let's go into the oldness.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: It was methodical, okay.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: So in the discovery that the defense gets from the prosecution,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: there is an Odin report in there that is twelve
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: pages long that these three police officers investigated. Apparently, there
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: is a group of people in this area, in the
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Delphi area, in this area called Odiness, and they worship
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: It's like there, it's like a pagan god. Called Odin
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: and they do ritualistic type of things that have to
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: do with nature. And also, I don't know, allegedly there
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: maybe is some sacrifices, because they do interview one of
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the guys that's supposedly one of these oldness and he
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: claims that it has more to do with just worshiping nature. However,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: he does post things on his Facebook that are like,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: you know, like a naked man hanging from a tree
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: with his throat cut. So that seems normal, that seems suspicious.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: So anyway, this twelve page Oden report was drafted by
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: the police and was investigated by the police, and it
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: has to do with the sticks and branches being arranged
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: in run like patterns. Now, the word of thing is ruin.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: It's r U n E, and it has to do
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: with the alphabet. It's like a Nordic And so now
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: we go back to the sticks placed on their bodies
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: were placed in a deliberate manner that mimic these runes,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: and the f on the tree is a run. And
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: also the way that the branches were laid on the
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: girls resemble different runs.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: Did you see these runes to compare yourself? I don't know.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: I looked them up. They did.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do we know if Richard worships trees? And that's a.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. There is. There's no link to
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Richard Allen being an Odinist or worshiping this being a
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: part of this pagan group.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Of probably no one in the town of Delphi that
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: is there are, Yes, there are, and they can.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: They can be a witness that he's not part of it.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if they would do that, because
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I think they would like him to be part of it.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Why would they like him to be a part of it?
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Because maybe they were the murderers.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, So.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Maybe Richard Allen is a scapegoat. Maybe because Richard Allen
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: is being guarded in prison by two security guards that
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: wear Odin patches on their on their uniforms that say
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: in Odin we trust.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Really, yes, this isn't like a theory. This is real.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: This is real.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I never heard of this, I know, That's what I'm
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: telling you. This case kills me. It is so I
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: just went down a deep, dark rabbit hole, and I
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: am convinced that Richard Allen is a scapegoat and that
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: there is a deeper, darker underbelly going on that this
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: murders don't have anything to do with Richard Allen, that
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: he just called and left a tip. And now this
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: man is spending all his time in prison. And I
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: could be wrong. I will always admit that I could
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: be wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: You don't admit you're wrong.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really ever admit to being wrong.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: But I don't feel like I'm wrong. But I could
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: be wrong. But again.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: That's documented that Odin we trust, and.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: They have patches on their uniforms that say in Odin
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: we trust, and any time.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I don't think they're aw to wear patches.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Well, they were removed once the defense saw the defense
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: team saw them, then they were the next time they
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: went to meet with their client, they had removed them
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: from their uniforms. But when the defense would go and
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: try and meet with Richard Allen, they were always there.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: They were always present, and they were recording their conversations.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Have these Odin worshippers ever been known to commit these
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: violent crimes or anything history like that, Well, they.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Claim no, because they interviewed They interviewed one of them
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: on one of the documentaries, and he actually found him
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: to be believable. I have to say that they interviewed
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: him and he said that they worship nature and that
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: the they arrange branches in those patterns. But it's you know,
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: to worship nature and trees and things like that. All
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I know is, let's just let's just think about this
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: for a second. This is also in this Frank's motion memorandum.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: How does a five foot four man get two girls
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: off of a bridge across a creek? Then he has
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: to murder one of them? But what is the other
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: one has to be tied up or something while he's
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: murdering one of them. How do you how?
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: This goes back to my original answer. I don't think
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: it's that hard. I think you can intimidate young girls,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: and sadly, I don't think it's that difficult. There will
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: there be are there exceptions that will there be some
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: girls that might run and scream or hey, yes, and
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: good for them, But it's understandable, very easily into it.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: It would be very scary for a man to do
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: that to you. And I wouldn't blame any girl one
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: bit for being so scared and just complying.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: I get that, and I understand what you're saying about compliance.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: But the time frame in which these girls was killed
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: was very short. It's like an hour and seventeen minutes.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. I don't know, I don't I just
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: strongly disagree with that. I think a man could be
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: so intimidating, easily intimidate to doesn't matter, doesn't.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: Matter, I don't know. I just don't think he acted alone.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: And I don't think it was him.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: I don't think he acted at all. I don't think
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: he acted at all.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I think I think it was I feel like it
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: was more than one perpetrator.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it could very well be. I was just saying.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying therefore it's Richard. I'm just saying I
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: don't think that's far fresh. I never really question how
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: did they intimidate? How did they get them to comply?
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Because it's it's scary someone points in a knife at you,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: you're gonnak.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: I get it again. I'm not saying that he can't
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: intimidate him. I'm talking about the time frame is a
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: very short. Also, he goes home and he sees his
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: wife later and tells her that he's at the bridge,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: and never does his wife say his clothes or muddy
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: or wet, or he doesn't have any blood on him?
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I mean where the branch clippers?
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like, none of that makes any sense to me?
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: I agree, all right?
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: And to me back to me where it's like they
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: blast this photo everywhere and they don't no one knows.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: It's like your local CBS technician, right, Does that makes
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: sense to me?
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: All right? This memo also identifies a very specific odinous
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: affiliated individual named Brad Holder. Brad Holder had a son
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: who had a relationship with Abby, so right there you
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: have a connection. Holder also posted ruine cymbals online identical
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: to those at the scene, raising suspicions of involvement. Let
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: me tell you some of the things that he posted,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: because I just found all of this way too coincidental.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: So again, his son dated Libby. He posted a painting
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: on Facebook that showed the same leg positioning that one
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: of the girls had. It had a mark on the tree,
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: and it had a throat cut. This was on April seventeenth,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, which was only fifty days after the murder,
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: before any any details of the murders was released. His
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: name was Bradholder. They named him and this memory. He
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: also posted a photo of a hand marked with a
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: RUN symbol, which was the exact room found on Abby's body.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but this is although it's weird behavior, it's like, well,
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: after the fact, he's just posting stuff about the crime.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Except I don't think they didn't release Yeah, but they
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: didn't release photos of the crime, and they didn't release
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: that there was any information about these rooms.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: You miss You didn't say that. Oh that's different, Okay, No.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: One knew that there was any that they were investigating
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: any kind of odinist connection at all. That was all
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: very hush hush. He also posted a photo that showed
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: two girls lying on the ground in the forest with
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: tree limbs arranged on their bodies and their hands positioned
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: similarly similarly to the two girls that were murdered. There's
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: also a photo of an f made from sticks on
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: the tree. He also posted a meme of some quote
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: that talked about how friends help you move bodies.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know, good friends bury the body.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah. To me, all of these things seem highly suspicious.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: I know they were investigated. I know that the police
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: claim or that they had solid alibis.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but who were they investigated by, because you're telling
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: me those cops run around, correction officers run around with
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: and oden. We trust patches and they're the ones investigate.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: And then what they send, like a conservation officer to
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: go investigate, you know, I mean.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Who knows what else they're sending exactly.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: It all just seems very coincidental to a crime. I
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: don't know, it just seems to me. Also, there was
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: a report supposedly this is why the police claimed they
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: dropped the investigation into this odinous, ritualistic type of killing.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: They said it was because they submitted all this evidence
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: to a professor at Purdue who looked at the crime
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: scene and then wrote some report that said that it
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: wasn't a ritualistic killing. But they can't remember the professor's
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: name and they can't find the report. But that's why
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: they claim they dropped. They dropped the investigation into these oldness.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: You know what else shows its sloppy police work.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: They misfiled the name and phone number of a guy
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: that calls and says I was there, right, and then
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: they misfile it or whatever.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: That's sloppy. Everything's sloppy about this case?
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Well, is it? The question is is it sloppy on
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: purpose or is it sloppy because they're because they don't
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: know what they're doing and they're sloppy. That's the question.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Is there more? Is there is this more of like
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: a Karen t a conspiracy where this guy is the scapegoat.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: He works at CBS, he doesn't ask for an attorney,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: he doesn't seem very sophisticated. To me, he's easily made
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: into a scapegoat. He doesn't have a very strong mental
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: mind to fight back because he's now he's in solitary
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: confinement and he's losing his mind. He's confess he's guarded
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: by Odinus. I mean, it seems to me that there
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: is way more going on behind the scenes than it's
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: just this five foot four man that worked in CVS
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: that just has no criminal record that one day decided
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: that he was going to.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: Kill and then never again for the next five years,
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: so they never found any other crimes.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: It makes no sense to me, zero, all Right, So
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: the jury convicts Richard Allen on all counts, including murder
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: while committing or attempting kidnapping. The judge sentences Alan to
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: the maximum penalty one hundred and thirty years in prison.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: The victims' families give an emotional impact statement at the sentencing.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: You know the thing that also, I just have a question,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: and I have a theory, but what is yours? The
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: families seem very hell bent on Richard Allen being.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: The families of the victims.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. From my position sitting outside here
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: doing all this research, hearing all these things, going deep,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: taking a deep dive into this, I think I would
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: be like, I don't know if we had the right guy.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: But then again, I'm not suffering grief.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you can understand that some people might be
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: in a position where they need to channel that anger
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: and that hurt somewhere and find someone.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: And if that's the guy and the police say that's
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: the guy, and that's the guy sitting in court.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: In front of me, you can't fault someone for thinking
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: it's him, right, I mean you got to fault the
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: investigation and the justice system and.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Law enforcement, all of them for doing it so poorly.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: So less than three months after his sentencing, Richard Allen
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: appeals his conviction. His legal team is seeking to overturn
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: the verdict by challenging both the timeline of events presented
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: a child and the handling of the evidence. His appeal
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: raises questions about whether prosecutors relied on inaccurate testimony, specifically
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Alan's lawyer's point to phone data suggesting that a key
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: state witness may have arrived home later than he testified,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: undermining that timeline used to argue Alan force the girls
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: across the creek. They also argue that other evidence pointing
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: toward possible alternate suspects was improper excluded at trial. That's
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: because this whole third party culpability that it had to
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: do that it's a ritual sacrifice, and then these oldness
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: are responsible for it was excluded. They were not allowed
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: to present any of that at court. In court none, Wow,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: so you know you're sitting I mean I if I
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: was sitting on the jury, I wouldn't have convicted him.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: But if you are living in this town of Delphi, you're.
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: I don't think there's been many crimes have gone over
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: where you would a convict him. I really don't pick
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: Emily for a jury.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: No, because I because I feel like I do I
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: have very I have because I take reasonable doubt, very
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: no doubt for you. Well, I don't know. Family members
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: of the victims have expressed a disappointment over the appeal,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: with Abby's grandfather urging Richard Allen to accept the jury's decision.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Libby's grandmother said the repeated filings and disputes continue to
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: cause the family pain, though they remained hopeful that justice
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: will hold. Look, the guy is entitled to an appeals
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: process and he has to go. Actually, I really feel
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: like his case is a good case for the Innocence Project,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: just because I feel strongly that I don't know if
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: they have the right guy. That's just where I'm at
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: with that. But obviously he has to go through all
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: of the appeals first before he would be eligible for
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: anything that has to do with the Innocence Project. So wow.
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: So anyway, that is where we were at in the
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: del Fi murders.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: He was sentenced, Yeah, he was sentenced un thirty years.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: Yes, and he's been in jail at least since twenty
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: two right since they detained him. Right, Holy cow, that guy,
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: based on the sentencing, is never getting out.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe his defense is able to bring in other evidence
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: in the appeal. I don't know. We'll see what happens.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Obviously will follow the case because I'm obsessed with it,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: and now I have to move on.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: To a is being appealed in all that, right, like
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: it's still in the system.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, what are your guys' thoughts on it? I mean,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: read the Frank's motion if you have, you know, a
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: spare day to read one hundred thirty six page motion.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: He said, it's like a novel, So you're reading a case.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Interesting, it's not a lot illegally is. It really reads
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: like a true crime novel. So if you're a true
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: crime you know, if you're a chunky chunky, you'll enjoy
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: reading it. And tell me your thoughts on it. Tell
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: me your thoughts on this whole odists alternate theory that.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: People out there that can explain to.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Us if there's anyone that practices.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Nothing wrong with that, but maybe they can shed some
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: light on this crime.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Right, and then let me know what you think about
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Richard Allen. Do you think he's guilty? Do you think
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: it's not innocent?
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: It's not guilty, not guilty?
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Do you mean he's guilty or not guilty?
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: Meaning by way of law he has not found guilty.
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: It does not mean he is innocent exactly.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: And when I say that, that's what I mean. I'm
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: saying there's the possibility that he could be guilty, but
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: from what I have read and been presented and what
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I think, I would say he's not guilty because there
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: isn't enough evidence to convict him to this man has
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: been the rest of his life in prison. Anyway. Thank
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: you so much for listening to Legally Brunette again. Don't
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: forget to move over and subscribe to us. Thanks for listening, guys.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Thank you