Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Quantum Threat vs Crypto🚨Quantum EXPERT INTERVIEW🔥Yoon Auh

Transcript

Quantum Threat vs Crypto🚨Quantum EXPERT INTERVIEW🔥Yoon Auh · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The threat of quantum is starting to approach digital assets
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: and crypto. Today, we're going to break that down for you.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Is it real? Is it not real? Well, we'll find out.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I do want to thank our sponsor, and that of course,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: is I Trust Capital. You guys can jump over and
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: get into your own crypt ira. You can do this
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: with both assets on risk assets or digital assets, or
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: you can jump into even silver and gold, all available
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: over on I Trust Capital.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Very easy to set up to use our link down below.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: It's going to give you a one hundred dollars funding
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: reward just to get started and get rolling on that.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Check it out use a link down below. I want
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: to go over to the idea of quantum. We keep
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: hearing more and more on this and the subject around
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: digital assets, and we'll talk about traditional assets as well well.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Michael Sailor addressed this and he had a very interesting
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: outline here that we've kind of pointed out on.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: This slide, and the question was did he believe it was.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Going to happen? He still thinks that it's ten years
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: away now. Len Alden, who you have seen on our
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: show many times, Lynn went in a little differently and
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: said this might be an issue. We need to pay
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: attention to take a look at this clip.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Bitcoin tends to upgrade slowly. Quantum resilient signatures take up
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: a lot more space, so we have a pretty limited
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: block space. I mean this is a trade off. That
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: being said, I've got a lot of contacts and institutional
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: firms and the quantum risk has hit them in a
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: way that it wasn't, you know, maybe a year.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Ago or more.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: If they say there's a ten percent chance that you know,
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: something happens in the next ten years, and they'll say,
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: I don't even know how to handicap that. I don't
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: if it's two percent, I don't know if it's fifteen percent.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: They say, there's this kind of variable there that is
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: just outside of our technical pay grade to know. And
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: so when you build an expected value model, they can
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: make their bowl case and base case the same as
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: they were, but then in their bare case they say, well,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: let's say an x percent chance we get zeroed out
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: x percent chance to some like messy chain split where
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: one's trying to be quantum resilient the other ones not,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: they have to like fatten that left tail bear case,
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: which then brings down their average price target or makes
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: them say, well, we might have put in a five
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: percent position, but now we're going to put in a
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: three percent position. Maybe just it doesn't get past committee
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: and you would have had five out of nine votes
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: to get it in there, and now you've only got
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: three or four votes, so it doesn't go in. I
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: do think that it actually has impacted price to cycle
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: all right.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: So Lynn, I think is very pointed on that, and
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: that is that we are seeing price impact of the
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: risk of quantum. So we thought let's get one of
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: the world's experts on this. So coming on today as
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: you and a who is the founder and CEO of
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Bolts and Nuts and Bolts Technology but Bolts Technology. Great
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: to have you there, Ian, how are you?
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Nice to see you and great to be
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: on this program.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: So I want to get right to it of the
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: point that we're hearing so much right now in the industry,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: and that is around the issue of the real threat
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: of quantum or at this stage is it just a
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: lot of fud.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's the latter. I think it is
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: a real threat. Shores Outgithm, which is the professor who
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: developed algorithm based upon a theoretical quantum computer, and that's
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: the algorithm that is scaring everybody, and that if a
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: quantum computer of sufficient power comes into play and utilizes
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: the Shores algorithm methodology, it can crack modern cryptography in
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: the form of RSA, Ribus, Shmier, and Edelman and then
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: and then you got the ecc elliptic curve cryptography, so
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: that theoretically that's proven that that that will happen. Now,
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: there's been a big race in the last ten years
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: in trying to advance the quantum computing hardware components to
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: be more and more powerful, and every twelve to fourteen months,
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: so you're seeing significant advances. I think the guessing game
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: as to do you think is going to be two years,
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: five years, ten years. I don't think that goes anywhere.
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: I think what I'd rather concentrate on is how is
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: the world responding. And I don't mean just the crypto world,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: you know, whether it's permissionless or permission cryptos, but look
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: at governments and look at how our own Congress has
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: been responding to this. I think at some point you
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: have to make the decision are all these people wrong?
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: And why do we even have a Quantum Preparedness Act.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: That's already a law since twenty twenty two. Right, so
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: you go, hey, you know, these are actual laws in
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: place that both sides of the political spectrum has voted in.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: They recognize that something is wrong, something's going to be
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: a big risk. They put this into motion. The Quantum
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: Preparedness Act of twenty twenty two got kicked into high
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: gear back in August of twenty four when the NISD
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: stand that is the first three post quantum cryptography algorithms
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: and these are short shorthand it's called PQC algos and
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: with the pickoff of three standard algorithms that the US
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: NIST supports. Now everybody in the government, the federal government,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: including all the military departments, have to abide by some
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: sort of schedule, and the NSA has put forth a
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: schedule that everything under their umbrella has to be quantum
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: resistant within about the next eight years. As it dropped
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: down paid now we go further so in the sensitive
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: components of the federal government. They're like any brand new
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: systems that have applied cryptography has to have PQC compatibility
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: and built into it right from the start. So this
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: is already starting and then you have all the other nations.
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: Australia turned around and said, no, we're not waiting until
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: twenty thirty three. We're going to turn into twenty third
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: UK India. I think India just came out twenty twenty seven,
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: twenty eight. It's very aggressive. So all of these governments
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: they're not, you know, really working together. They are following
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: their own experts and research, and you have to you
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: have to kind of scratch you ahead and say why
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: why all the commotion, why all the urgency? And it's
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: because it just it's going to take a multi year effort.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: We have so many systems that's been ingrained with cryptography
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: in the last four or five decades that it's going
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: to take a long time. And any openings that we
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: have where we don't cover that vulnerability will be exploited.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: You know that that'll be that'll be an entry point
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: for our adversaries and hackers.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: So obviously crypto being ATOG cryptography based digital asset layer,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: but you also have in the traditional finance world security
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: mechanisms that are also so you know, cryptography based. Why
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: would crypto be at more risk than traditional finance Because
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming that this being one of the major attack
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: vectors being the financial industry overall.
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: That's a great question, and it goes to the heart
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: of the difference of what is popular crypto and blockchains
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: versus what traditional finance does. Traditional finance is they create
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: a lot of modes, right, So it's very centralized per institution.
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: So JP Morgan has their own server systems, they have
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: their own enclaves, and in order to get there, you
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: got to go through many, many layers of security that's
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: controlled by JP Morgan. Crypto things like ethereum and bitcoin
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: are distributed, decentralized, nobody really owns it. There's no central governance.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: Governance is by sort of you know, and a very
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: informal voting process, and there's really it's a very chaotic mechanism.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: There's no real scheduling that happens. And so I think
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: the main difference is that in a blockchain where you
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: have your bitcoin transactions, when you submit your transaction for acceptance,
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: that transaction is a self contained cryptographic message, and your
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: entire value of whatever bitcoin you own on that transaction
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: that you're giving to somebody else or buying some is
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: entirely protected by what's something called elliptic curve, cryptography, digital signatures,
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: and that's it. That's the only difference between somebody taking
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: your bitcoin and somebody not. And if a powerful enough
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: quantum computer comes along using Shores algorithm or some variant
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: of it and breaks that digital signature, you will lose
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: your coin. And that is the main difference.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, So really it's it's the decentralized nature of crypto
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: that really keeps it in the crosshairs of an attack
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: vector here as opposed to what you're talking about in
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the centralized side for traditional finance. I'm assuming that you
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: could put digital assets behind those, and of course it
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: kind of goes against the theory of what crypto is
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: all about in terms of DeFi in general, how close
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: are we to say, China having a true attack vector
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: on bitcoin in general? Specifically, are they how much would
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: you say we are?
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: I would say I would have any idea it could
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: be you know, the next few years, three to five years,
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: who knows, but my guess as good as anybody else.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: You know, I think they are working hard to put
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: a lot of effort into the quant a computing area.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Not I don't think you would. You would say, is
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: you know, with the country like the resources of China,
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: with their number one goal of gaining such a powerful
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: quantum computer be to exploit bitcoin. I you know, I
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: think I have a hard time saying that that would
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: be their top priority. I think it would be more
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: of a you know, geopolitical stance and how to get
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: get ahead in global powers right and influence. So I
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: think when when you're when you're sitting from a crypto perspective,
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: that is top of mind. But all of these efforts
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: by nation states, I don't think that is their top
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: priority in trying to gain quantum computing superiority.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it will depend obviously on how far
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: integrated we get digital assets into, especially into Wall Street.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: If we if we do see a lot of these
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: you know, regulatory alignments start to really come to fruition,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: that could accelerate the world, you know, into a complete
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: new you know, infrastructure you're all built around digital assets.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: To your point, That's where I think then it might
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: be a little bit different. It'd be like attacking an
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: electric if you want to bring down countries. Now you're
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: talking the core finance spread.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: I think one way to just maybe not not the
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: best analogy But one way to look at it is like,
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: you know, when you move into really old towns and
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: old houses, Uh, you may have a piece of the
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: water system that's still lead pipes, right, And how do
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: they deal with that? Sometimes they rip it all out
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: down to the street, other times they just do more measurements. Right.
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: So I think in retrospect we know a lot more
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: about lead poisoning than than we used to do, like
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: a hundred years ago. So I think that's you have
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: to kind of think about it that way. If you
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: know that risk is there, and you're going to move
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: in with a new baby into a new house that
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: already has known lead pipes, what are you gonna do? Right?
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: Are you going to live with that risk just by
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: testing it? Or not take that risk and just rip
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: it all out or buy a new house. I think
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: that's that's the way to think about it, is that
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: if you know a risk, do you deal with it?
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: If you have a solution, do you stave off that solution? Right?
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: And I think we have plenty of solutions. And what
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: are we waiting for exactly?
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what category of blockchains do you think would be
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: most vulnerable?
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Right now?
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Any blockchain that exposes their blocks. Okay, right, So so
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: regardless of permission or permissionless. The idea of a blockchain
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: is that your blocks are in public view.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Well, and if if it's in.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: Public view, every block has is full of transactions with
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: elliptic cryptography signed signatures, and if those can be broken,
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: you could create chaos.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which ones that you've seen that maybe of the
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: blockchains that you've seen out there that potentially have the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: capacity to be most or best positioned to succeed against
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: quantum threat.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: Every blockchain has that capacity. I believe that they might
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: not have thought about crypto agility, so the ability to
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: change ciphers very quickly in their formation and in their
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: original architectures. But I think that level of crypto agility
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: is possible with a retrofit, and you have to do it.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: I believe there are certain blockchains that have much more
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: permissive block sizes, and those are going to be much
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: easier to change because the nature of these post quantum
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: cryptography algos are bigger keys and bigger signature sizes and
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: more computational power than elliptic curve ever required.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Weovitale has committed quite a bit toward getting quantum resistant. Obviously,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: ethereum up ten percent over ten years, one hundred percent
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of time. Maybe ETH would be one of those that
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: could kind of go in that direction. I was looking
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: also at just the Google trends right now. Look at
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: this right here, this is the interest level on quantum,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: which has been climbing dramatically this year.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: Do you think that this is going to continue?
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: You think we're going to continue to see interest in parties,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: especially as we start to see the shift towards digital assets, token, ice, treasuries,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: all those kind of things coming continue to accelerate.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: Absolutely. I think digital signatures breaking digital signatures of the
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: legacy kind is one aspect of quantum computing, but there
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: are other aspects of quantum computing that could give entire industries,
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: nation states a leap over others. So, you know, I
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: don't know if if you ever heard this thing about
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: you know, our traditional semiconductors, right is a triumvirate on
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: the top. You have SML and then you have the
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: two makers, which is TSMC and Intel. Those three are
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: Western controlled, right, and because they're the only companies in
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: the world that could produce in mass the type of
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: CPUs running sequential logical operations. Think about how that formed
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: and how that is allowed to persist, and what other
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: nations that are not in that control group will say, Hey,
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: if we get a handle on quantum computing hardware, we
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: could create one of those ourselves. Right, that type of
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: leap frogging and dominance for decades. And I think that's
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: what they're going for, is that there this is a
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: new ground zero of computing technology that is based on
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: completely different science than what we're used to. And it's
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: it's I that's a land grab, right, It's a it's
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: a real land grad and whoever gets there first can
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: dominate for asking, you know, for decades.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of like we're talking about this in
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the research is it's almost like moon mission level for
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: governments to try.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: To get in and ahead of this.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: When all right, So with your company both technologies cryptographic logistics,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: what are.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: You guys doing here?
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Are you helping governments prepare? Are you going directly into industries?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: What's the area that you guys have the expertise for?
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: So Boltz was born out of a technology that I
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: developed for the purposes of applying cryptography better and we
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: created a secure protocol, and I don't know especially how
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: if you know, like the basics of a communication session
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: in the digital area, digital arena, it is session based, right,
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: So we when we do this podcast right now, there's
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: a communication session that you know, negotiated what cryptography we're
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: going to use, what key exchanges we're going to use,
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: and then that's how the entire session is encrypted and
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: decrypted using one type of cryptography. What we did was
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: we said, eh, you know, we don't we need something
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: better than that, more flexible, and we brought it down
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: to where it is crypto agility at the message level,
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: so you could actually have sessionless secure messages going back
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: and forth and cryptography changing on the fly right in.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: And so that was something that we proposed to the
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: NIST for one of their small business Innovation grants and
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: they picked us up as one of twelve projects in
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: ear of twenty twenty four and they said, and it
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: goes across their whole science, you know endeavors. So being
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: picked as an applied cryptography project was something that we
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: were not expecting. And we worked directly for the people
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: who were picking the PQC algorithms as standards, and we
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: asked the guy. We said, hey, why did you pick
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: our project and he said, well, we didn't think crypto
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: agility can be brought down to this level, and we'd
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: like to see it on whether it could be applicable
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: to PQC algos. And within six months we took our
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: existing production level. You know, we called it SDFT at
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: the time, but we rebranded that to q flex, embedded
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: all of the available PQC algo variants and show them
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: how we could change PPC algos per message. Now, if
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: you think about it, I think earlier I mentioned that
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: a public crypto coin transaction is a self contained cryptographic message,
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: that is a q flex message.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: I see right.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: So now we will be able to offer any blockchain
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: the ability where the wallet, the user, the digital asset
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: owner has the capability to change cryptography on their very
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: next transaction.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: And I believe that's closer to the original ethos of
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: a public blockchain than anything else, because if it's your asset,
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: why aren't you allowed to pick the lock that you
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: put around it? Right? And you should. And our technology
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: also allows you to put as many locks as you want,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: not just one. If you want two, you get two.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: If you want five, you could do five now. But
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: that brings up a very interesting question, which is, didn't
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: you tell me that this was takes more space, more
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: time on a computer, and aren't all blockchains worried about
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: transactions per second metrics? Yep, Aaron lies. Something that's I
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: think is going to be more and more apparent that
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: we're going to have to address is that, in some way,
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: whether implicitly explicitly, crypto users are going to have to
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: accommodate and figure out how to pay for the cryptography
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: they want to use to protect that transaction. Because if
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: you have a very important transaction, you go, hey, I
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: want to put two digital signatures on it. Right, No,
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: it is going to pick that up for the same price.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: They're not going to They're gonna be like, hey, you know,
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: you're gonna have to pay me more because I'm gonna
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: have to use more cycles, right and so, But if
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: you think about it, you go, if you leave it
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: to every blockchain to just come up and pick their best,
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: guess why is that not the answer. Because if you
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: leave it to all the blockchains to kind of, you know,
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: pick their own choices and be monolithic about the cryptography,
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: they're all gonna boil down to the fastest, the smallest,
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: and what if you're wrong, right, So that's an issue
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: that doesn't isn't get doesn't get talked about much. But
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: did you know that in apply cryptography and the science
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: of cryptography, there's only been one provably secure, mathematically provable
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: secure algorithm, and that's called the one time pad. And
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: the one time pad for digital commerce is basically is
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: practically useless. So everything besides the one time pad is
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: an educated guess and at any time you will be
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: a Theoretically any of these can be broken. You just
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: don't know. The only reason we trust AES on the
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: symmetric side, oursay and elliptic curve on the asymmetric cryptography
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: side is because we have decades of usage and so
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: far nobody's broken them. All of these PQC algos are new,
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: there's no roadware. We don't know. And in the process
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: of the eight year evaluation process that the nis T
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: put in for the PQC selections, two top contenders at
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: the very last, like six months, got to their legs
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: were taken out by like a couple of researchers in Europe.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: They showed a flaw in how the algorithm was running,
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: and they took like a three eighty six or forty
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: six type computer and broken not even without a computer
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: quantum computing. There was a flaw. Nobody saw it for
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: several years. It had happened to any of these quantum
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: computing resistant cryptographic algos. And that's the thing that's the
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: danger of a blockchain saying, oh, I'm going to be
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: a self taught cryptographer and I'm going to determine this
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: is it for everybody on my chain. I think that's
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: a risk that you shouldn't take because there is no proof.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what in the future, what would private keys
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: look like? I mean, because that's kind of one of
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: the core elements of being able to secure your crypto.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: What would that look like in a world that you
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: think could resolve post quantum.
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, the private keys in the wallets for these ciphers,
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: they're going to be of all different sides. I believe
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: that people will choose different signature types for different value assets.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: And if you have a very you know, if you're
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: going to use bitcoin to pay for a cup of coffee,
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: use use your smallest coin amount and use the cheapest,
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: how though, who cares. Okay, if you're going to do
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: a multimillion dollar transaction, you may want two or three
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: algos on top of that, right, two or three signatures
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: so that it makes it harder for somebody to break
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: that transaction. So you know, I think that's it's all
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: about risk control, knowing where the risks lie, and why
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: you want to design a system to be flexible.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think that's the key here is because
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: that would change the dynamic, especially if you're able to
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: get down in inside the algorithm itself, to start to
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: change kind of the very nature of how it's being
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: used would be intriguing. What I was saying is, what
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: about when you look at the value of a of
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: a blockchain or a company that provably gets to a
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: quantum resistant we'll call it quantum resistant blockchain. Do you
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: think that that is going to be very unique and
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: that the market is going to reward that dramatically or
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: do you think it's just going to be just the beginning,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: like kind of like what we're seeing in the AI
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: space right now, where you have a lot of llms
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: kind of spinning up. Sure, chat ept was one of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the first, but now you've got so many others.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: What would be your opinion on that.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: I think it will give you a competitive edge until
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: the day the threat really gets realized, right, and then
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: you'll have a big disproportionate revaluing of ecosystems. But until then,
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: it's just just as good as guests as anybody else.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: And you have to kind of, you know, the more
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: knowledgeable you are and the way you see these things happening,
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: you have to kind of figure out how do you
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: mitigate different types of risks simultaneously. And the other thing
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: is that we've enjoyed as Americans this really exalted position
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: within the scientific world that the NIST has been the
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: unofficial standards committee for cryptography for the last fifty years.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: That is no longer true. So when it came when
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: it came to post quantum cryptography, Algos, China, and South
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: Korea each independently stood up their own PQC ALGO standards divisions.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: So they're gonna have their own standards, they're gonna have
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: their own variants, and Europe is also looking at doing
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: some and other countries are looking at creating subdivisions within
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: their existing standards areas to create their own algo variants.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: And this is really because of some of the you know,
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: unpopular decisions that were done several decades ago. Remember the
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: clipper chip, you know. And then there are there are
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: some you know, theories of like certain ecc elliptic curf
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: cryptography be parameters that are more friendly to certain intelligence
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: agencies and whatnot. So I think there's a little bit
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: of distrust. But if you live in a jurisdictionally compliant
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: cryptographic world, it makes our systems work a little bit harder,
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: and you need crypto agility that is jurisdictionally sensitive and
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: that may not bother public sort of like bitcoins and ethereums.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: But for a lot of the institutional and track fi
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: motivations to do sort of these real world asset systems,
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: they are track fi that may live in different jurisdictions
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: and they may have to accommodate and be compliant. How
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: do you communicate to others on a common blockchain? Right?
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: So I think that's where our technology and know how
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: comes into play, because you know, it has a lot
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: of these factors built in and why you want to
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: mitigate the risk this way, you know, in a weird way,
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: we say Hey, you're the user, you're the owner, have
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: it your way, right, It's just kind of like, how how.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Close for the United States?
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Do you feel that the US is up to speed
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: right now with the rest of the world around a
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: defense layer for you know, quantum resistant threats in the future,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: or do you think we're just getting into it.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: I think we're well ahead in terms of how we
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: think about it and having the tools to fight it.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: What we are probably behind on is is similar to
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: how you know, the undeveloped countries leap FROGDUS in the
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: cellular technology. Right, we have a lot of legacy systems
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: that we really have to redo or you know, reconfigure
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: and update, and we have a mass of them, whereas
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: less developed countries have newer systems that may actually be
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: much more compliance. So I think we have the best
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: of both, you know, best of like technology and know how,
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: but we just also have this huge chunk of work
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: that we've got to deal with.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Well, you look at the legacy systems that run the
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: very government, much less the ones that run the power grids,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: even the financial systems. To a certain extent, you're talking
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: about Python code and code that goes back you know,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: two decades to what's running most of Wall Street, so
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: very interesting times ahead. I think we're going to be
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: watching this one very closely. Where would people follow your
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: work right now?
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: We do post occasionally on x and LinkedIn, and you know,
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: we do have our bolt Technologies dot x y Z website,
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: you know, and if anybody wants to see our NIST paper,
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: we could obviously send it to them to show how
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: hyper crypto agility at the message level works. We believe
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: it's a very powerful technology and capability to have, and
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: you know, we we'd love to teach and work with
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: people to get this in there because it is something
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: that will happen regardless of what you think is the
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: timing of Quan computing arriving that. You know, it is
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: a thing that you go, hey, you know, I know
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: the risk is there? What can I do about it today?
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: Well, if you say yes to that, you got to
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: do something. Yeah.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of the blockchain execs that follow
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: our show, you guys know what to do. I brought
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: up their X account right there Bolts Tech, so it's
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: both sweat three find them there you and thank you
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: so much for coming on today. You've kind of given
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: us some big aha moments here of what to prepare
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: for when it comes to the digital asset space, so
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: we appreciate it.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much for having me.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: If you like this video, like and subscribe, drop a
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: comment down below, and also join our three private member group.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: The link is in the description.