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Defiance · The Director's Chair Network

• 0:04 [Music] [Applause] 0:14 [Music] 0:25 welcome to another episode of zwix flick the Ed zwick podcast I am ran your host 0:31 and returning guest co-host with me today is Scott thank you and welcome back well thank you for having me for a 0:37 second time it must have done at least a decent job to be brought back you did a great J and my discouraging remarks on 0:43 your favorite movie about the Legends of the Fall still kept me in the in your wheelhouse to bring back did we talk 0:49 about you reinvestigating the film we did and you know what I'll be honest I have not had a chance yet as you know 0:55 school start over here so when we recorded it was just at the beginning and it's been kind of nuts so but the 1:01 Winter's coming right so winter time is usually when I get my most of movie 1:07 watching in right like I on the weekends I'll watch three four movies on a Saturday because it's cold and snowy and 1:13 it's just kind of allows for you to kind of uh you know relax and kind of pull back a bit which is I always enjoy a lot 1:19 of people like I hate the winner I'm like well I get my most movie watching on the win I kind of enjoy when it comes so yes I promise if I'm ever on again 1:27 this one or another one I will have a new rebuttal for what I believed about Legends of the Fall well that kind of 1:33 ties in a little bit with a something I've considered since our last recording because this podcast is designed to be 1:40 it is it is a limited series but I do I do have the tendency to drag out my limited stuff only because I'm having so 1:45 much fun with this uh with his films but if you know edwick at all you know that 1:50 he didn't he didn't just direct he also wrote produced and an executive produced quite a few films so I thought about 1:57 well you know what I'm going to do when I'm done his main filmography the the movies that he directly directed that 2:03 went that went to feature film type films I'm going to tackle the films that he produced executive produced and and 2:09 or wrote Because I like doing film reviews and he's done a whole bunch of different work within Hollywood where 2:15 his fingerprints have been on them besides just directing so yes you'll be on again that's what I'm trying to say so you're going be back on again for 2:21 example he produced Shakespeare and love was a film he produced I don't know if you knew that I did not he was originally going to direct it oh okay 2:28 that might have been a different film it might have been a different film that's what I'm getting at so there's a lot of different films which I wouldn't think I 2:34 would ever review or talk about on a podcast I thought you know what this be kind of interesting to talk about films 2:39 like Shakespeare and love for example Scott before we talk about the film tell people where they can find you on other 2:44 podcasts yeah so you can find me on the treasure tartino that is my main podcast we are just about to close out season 2:49 three we will be starting season four which I thought I would make it smaller but it's gotten bigger because now I'm 2:55 going to do two patreon exclusive shows and you'll be one of the first guests on one of those so we're moving back into 3:01 at the church after putting to bed the 30-year retrospective of Pulp Fiction we're going to go back into more of a 3:09 all things Tarantino talking the main episode will be called ranking Tarantino I will give the church's official top 3:15 five in a category like and there's a lot of categories to pull from you know badass chicks to villains to Side 3:22 characters to dialogue moments to almost anything weapons you I've already got 60 possibilities that we could go through 3:29 so that at least gives me but at least five seasons more to go exra sure and then I always have my in 3:34 glorious blue balls which is where myself and my co-host Sean wheer we have always gone through all the 3:39 announcements that we have found Tarantino has made and some sort of another gone through them found out what 3:45 the announcement was why it didn't work out give some hypothetical what we thought it would be and then what level of blue balls it left us with the new 3:51 two shows are going to be I'm bringing back what was called the Bible study from season one but it's expanding so 3:58 every month I'm going through the movies in chronological order and we're just picking one chapter from the DVD Blu-ray 4:05 and we're going to discuss that so each month it's a different movie different chapter so that brings in more a chance to talk and then you are going to be my 4:12 first guest on Tarantino esque film review which is a list of movies that 4:17 people say are Tarantino esque films that were inspired by or fall into the 4:23 crime category that he kind of sub genre he kind of created with the res dogs and Pulp Fiction and you'll be my first 4:29 guest doing LA Confidential so yeah I love it yeah it's exciting and then I still do on your network we still do uh 4:36 the men of action and dropping a Bruce we are doing the Lord's work I can just tell you that like we're taking bullets 4:43 for all of you folks we're taking the bullets for you oh every time I see a new drop in the Bruce drop on the last 4:49 of the action heroes podcast Network I think to myself poor Bruce what a legacy I know the wild thing is is when we were 4:55 going to start it he had not been announced no I think I told you the story where right before Steve and I are 5:01 about to start that podcast I'm telling we were in the pre-production phase of of setting it up how we're going to do the recordings all of the sudden they 5:09 the family comes out with that so we put that on the shelf for a year now doing it the way we are we're seeing the fasia 5:16 poke through we're seeing where it happens scre it gives us a brand new perspective because you know going into 5:22 it without knowing that we'd be like what the [ __ ] is happening to Bruce Wills why is he such a [ __ ] actor now 5:27 now that you know what you know you now see it you know it's kind of like oh someone in your family's got a drug 5:33 habit or something like that and they're like why didn't we ever notice that then you go back and like look at old videos or pictures you go oh we should have noticed that Uncle David was always 5:41 wiping his nose and sniffing how do we not know he had a Coke habit it is one of those retrospectives where we now are 5:47 seeing as we're getting closer to the end of it where it's really some days you're just like you know there have 5:52 been well one we just released 25 pages of dialogue were written for him he does almost none of it he's on scene set for 5:59 a day he looks confused even in the scenes like it's it gets bad it's it's hard to watch well you're a Stalone fan 6:06 imagine stalen had this imagine watching your hero deteriorate in front of your eyes you know you have to retire so it's 6:12 too bad it's too bad sad all right well thanks for coming on again last time we met together we did the The Siege if you 6:19 recall that was a a great one had a lot of fun talking about that looks like we're diving into another War Story So 6:26 before we get into defiance you seen this film before preparing to come on 6:32 the podcast today I had not I had missed this one and was one of the reasons when you asked about it I said yes cuz I'm 6:39 always down for watching a new film especially a film that I wanted to watch but for some reason Gets behind you you 6:46 know life one day you're like yeah I want to see this movie and then goes out of your cineplexes and then you don't know what streaming service it goes to 6:52 and you forget about it and then all a sudden you know one day you're slipping through Netflix or something else like oh my God that's right I wanted to see 6:58 that film like seven years ago so you hit play and then I love Daniel Craig I enjoy these kind of true War Stories 7:05 especially when you said zwick is one of my favorite of his is Glory so yeah I hadn't had a chance to see it but I'm glad that we uh got a chance to see it 7:12 finally zwick seems to enjoy his War films Glory Legends of the Fall courage 7:19 Under Fire The Siege The Last Samurai Blood Diamond now Defiance all these big 7:26 bombastic weapon firing death Carnage travesty I'll give zwick credit tackling 7:33 very big topics that are controversial and every time he does this he got criticism we talked about when we when 7:38 we covered The Siege so if you're listening to this haven't listen to that episod please check it out he always tackles these ideas whether they're 7:46 historical or you know fiction ised but of a real thing he tackles these big 7:52 topics and I got to give him full credit now I don't want to spoil the next episode the next episode is Love and 7:58 Other Drugs I haven't got to that part in his book because I've been listening to his book while I watched the few I don't get ahead so I don't know what his 8:03 reasons were to do Love and Other Drugs but talk about a shift defin is this film which of course has Warfare It's a 8:09 true story it's brutal and then he does love other drugs which is a very intimate drama little bit of comedy with 8:17 uh Jake ghal and Anne Hathaway and there's not one gunfire there's no blood you wouldn't even know it was him when I 8:23 watched that film again I don't want to spoil too much of my discussion for that film but I just like that's him what happened so I'll be curious to hear his 8:29 thoughts why the change of Gears is zwick by chance Jewish he is maybe the only thing I can think is the shift is 8:36 you know when you deal with the Holocaust that's a very touchy subject especially if you're of the Jewish faith 8:41 and so maybe he was like look I just That's Heavy and I'd like to do something that's really light now you 8:46 know I kind of want to just have a little hey let's do a romantic comedy I need to get out of this these doldrums 8:51 know Spielberg had a really tough time when he was doing Schindler's List like it's not an easy topic to tackle that 8:58 was probably what it was something a little bit lighter different if you want to see Adan hathway nude for a large 9:03 portion of film she's nude in the whole film who doesn't want to have you seen the film she's new she's well Jake gal 9:11 looks great too let's be fair I'm say both are fantastic people when he's new in that film I'm looking at my body I'm 9:17 like G thanks buddy I know I know but hey look's he's he's Rich he's got personal trainers he's got the time he 9:22 gets paid to get into the shape so well Daniel Craig was not new in this film however so let's I think edwick tackling 9:30 this him with his Jewish background his personal connection to the people of this time I actually thought to 9:36 myself though I'm not comparing the films because we know how big and Grand Schindler's List was this is his 9:43 Schindler's List that's how I kind of view this is a director tackling something very close to him his history 9:48 his people it's also a true story one I never knew about I mean I know amazing 9:53 amazing yeah did you ever hear of this story before no never this is a 2008 War 9:58 drama that tells the extraordinary story of the now I apologize folks when I mispronounce names just don't at me too 10:05 hard the bilsky brothers I think that's pretty close at least sound like they said in the movie This is the gripping 10:11 tale of resilience survival and Humanity which brings to life a lesser known chapter World War II so what is this 10:18 chapter well in the summer of 1941 Nazi forces swept through Belarus leaving 10:23 Devastation in their wake amid this horror the bilsky brothers tuvia Zeus 10:29 azil and Aaron fled to the dense naliboki forest after the murder of 10:35 their parents and it was here in the thick Wilderness that the story of defiance began the brothers not only 10:41 survived but established a hidden Community rescuing Jewish refugees and building a safe haven against impossible 10:47 odds their makeshift Village included schools a hospital and a nursery an extraordinary accomplishment in the 10:53 middle of a war zone by the time they left the forest their group had saved over 12,000 lives which ended up being 11:00 in the tens of thousands of genealogy yeah so another Schindler's 11:08 List to a degree the one brother played by Lea shriber he's a little upset by saving some of the Richer posher Jews 11:15 who looked down on them because they were actually labor intensive Jews it was interesting because I'd never class 11:21 it was a class I'd never seen that kind of class Warfare between the Jewish population before you know it hadn't 11:26 been portrayed on television in that way or in the movies in that way even in shinder list there wasn't this set up by 11:33 Spielberg they're like oh we're saving the rich Jews the poor Jews like it was just like we have to save all these Jews from the ghetto and so i' had never seen 11:40 they being a rift within the community based on a hierarchy did you know the story at all or did you look at a 11:46 trailer or did you go in cold I went in cold like I didn't I went in cold didn't know what country it was in I'll be 11:51 honest I thought it like Poland or east I didn't know or west I didn't know so far east over near Russia I just knew 11:57 that some Jews had gone into the forest and I wasn't sure if they'd save people I thought they' actually formed like a 12:04 it was like a resistance force you know I thought they were more of a resistance force than what the the movie actually 12:09 was yeah you that's great yeah I went in totally blind too it wasn't until about halfway through the film that I did some 12:15 Wikipedia search just to see I wanted to see if the brothers were real I know it said inspired by true story or based on 12:20 a true story I got that but I was like oh there were real brothers I saw their pictures fascinating they all survived 12:26 spoiler they all survived the war except for the I think it was the middle brother AEL yeah the one brother who 12:32 kind of takes the end he ironically joins the military and dies in 12:37 battle isn't that crazy that he survives hiding from Nazis in the forest for two 12:43 years but dies yeah dies in battle that's part of the Defiance isn't it right that's what they kind of say 12:48 that's their Defiance we're not going to die in the ghettos you're not going to put us to death the way you want to if I'm going to die I'm going to die doing 12:53 it on my feet then that's kind of the point of the the story as we always do on this show on this podcast we go 13:00 through of course the big talking points of course are the actors and of course Ed Wick's journey within the films we have some audio clips from his book that 13:05 we'll discuss at the end of the show The Last third of the show I guess you could say this is your second time being on 13:11 the show you've already given your thoughts on Ed Wix so if people want to hear your thoughts on him as a filmmaker and your history please go check out The 13:17 Siege episode where you expressed all that all the same how do you think Ed did on this film what do you think the 13:23 look The aesthetic the feel did he do a good job directing this film what's your overall thoughts on him I think he did 13:29 pretty good he's playing in a playground that's tough right because you're always going to get compared to like a Schindler's List it's unfair if a story 13:35 comes out before yours you're going to and it's a good one you're going to get compared to whether it's fair or not I 13:42 think he did a good job of diverted from showing the horrors of the thing he he 13:48 kept it to what the brothers were insulated to so the one brother saw the pit the open pit where they murdered 13:54 people and threw the lie on them and so that was the only thing we really get and then we just focus on what it was like to live in the forest to even show 14:02 the inner fightings that happen within people so they're trying to stay alive from either the bellarus people who have 14:08 been paid off by the Nazis to find them or from the Nazis themselves they're not sure if the Russians are going to 14:13 protect them and then they're also infighting with each other because as you have to drop your your Humanity in 14:19 order to survive and give up the comforts you used to have they start to argue with each other and almost almost 14:24 start to kill each other because right tents living in the woods would very limited resources I thought he did a 14:31 great job of bringing a true life story to life they spent a year in the woods before the na that Nazi thing that moves 14:38 him away we have to find something that's going to bring a little bit of drama and move the story forward it just 14:44 can't be people coughing and being freezing in the snow right we've got to add a few things in to make it exciting 14:49 can you imagine just a 2our film two hours of just people coughing in eating 14:55 soup what I found fascinating of course about this film is you couldn't help but think of course of the Jewish filmmaker 15:01 with a filming something about the Holocaust you can't help but think of the connection with stepen Spielberg's you know Schindler's List I would rather 15:08 watch this film again than Schindler's List which is not to say Schindler's List is a worst film but it's such a difficult film to watch it's yes I would 15:14 say s just a heavy film it's one those like you watch it once you're like I don't ever need to see it again because 15:19 it's so emotionally taxing it's devastating it's a devastating film because it dives into the horrors of 15:28 that he lean heavily into what the Jewish people went through in this time and what shinda was trying to do to save 15:33 them and the dancing he had to do to try to save more Jews when the Germans were trying to eliminate as many Jews as they 15:39 possibly could this movie is a little different this is about survival that one is just you know the weight of what's happening in every frame well you 15:45 can almost liken it that Schindler's List is how should I say this I don't mean to be glib about this it's like the 15:52 Star Wars franchise the first six films let's say and then def sence is Rogue 16:00 one yes it's an offshoot yes yeah it's a furthering story what this while this 16:05 was going on this was happening exactly and that's how I kind of look at it because you could watch Schindler's List 16:11 and to educate let's say your children about the horrors and the travesties of 16:16 the Holocaust and then you can say but look here too is a tale of survival and 16:21 overcoming great odds let's see you're an alien coming down to earth and watching Defiance for the first time show me this um Holocaust situation 16:29 you'd watch this and the alien might say doesn't seem that bad no that's fair from what you see on screen you're right 16:35 you're like well okay yeah it sucks they're starving but other than that they got off easier I guess you could say compared to comparatively to all the 16:41 other experiences when they have these discussions when they go back to the town to talk to the Jewish rabbi and and 16:47 when they're trying to get people out of that area and when they have people coming to their Camp escaping if you're that alien watching this film you'd be 16:54 like I don't know what they're escaping what are they afraid of but when you know Schindler's List like wholly aware 16:59 of okay we understand what they're fleeing from of course people know the Holocaust but I'm just saying when you 17:05 watch this as a film we don't need to see schind list again we understand the travesty the horror the pain this film 17:12 says okay that stuff is happening we don't need to keep showcasing it however we're showcasing a little bit of Hope a 17:19 little bit of a victory that there's people here who are hiding and they're winning despite that though they still 17:26 struggle with each other cuz we're just humans you know they're still bickering fighting even within their Camp there is 17:32 class Warfare when you have the soldiers saying we as soldiers should get more food than the people were protecting 17:39 because if you think about what you just said about the soldiers feeling that way that's not how a soldier thinks right a 17:44 soldier doesn't think that we deserve more because we do more you're actually taught that you need to learn how to live with less and that others need it 17:51 more than you do so that's how you can tell that those people who were work I mean they were look they were thrown into roles of soldiers right they 17:57 weren't they were civilians who now were basically a militia that's why militias 18:03 and thinking they're going to go up against an army it's a different training it's a whole different mindset 18:08 yeah yeah you being angry about something and thinking you could defend your farm it's a little different than what we know how to do what we're 18:14 willing to go through and been trained to go through you know it's interesting to see how they perceived it and you 18:19 could lean into if you're not from the military thinking Well yeah if they're out there putting their lives in line why wouldn't they get more but then I 18:27 was always taught and you know whether that's fair thing or not but women and children first right so the women and the children get fed first then you will 18:33 get your your food whatever you need like your needs come less your family comes first right you make sure that 18:39 your family your wife and kids will always have more before you ever have anything that's where tuvia was in the 18:45 mindset of but he also wanted to make it equal because if it's not equal being in the forest where there is no class 18:51 system you are all the same people you have to have an equal balance system or 18:56 it will tip out of balance and then Anarchy ensues right there has to be some kind of structure and the best 19:02 structure he could come up with is that everyone gets an equal share everyone does an equal share of work too though so the men put themselves on the line go 19:09 honey you go there would you feel good about going sending your wife and kids hey K you go take the guns good luck get 19:15 get out there and I'll cut the potatoes yeah and it's not like I don't think women can handle so but just as a man I 19:21 have this inner belief that no it's my responsibility as the man of my family to defend and protect I'm the one who 19:28 should be out there taking out fighting the Nazis and and protecting them not like being like hey have my wife and 19:33 daughter out there to go do it with no training no anything so this is what I love about the doing this podcast I mean 19:39 obviously just go see the film and I love the the the discussions that all films and art brings to the table and 19:45 that's what I like that we do is we talk about the the things that the film eliss is responses as as a viewer we watch 19:52 something and theist is a reaction to how would we do in the situation I'm certainly the same way women and 19:58 children first I totally agree it's in my nature too but what I like about this film and I'm certain this happened 20:04 during this time as well is tuvia played by Daniel Craig he does tell hey we're all here to support and protect each 20:11 other so yes women will fight they learn to use weapons if the men are out in the field and they get overrun you you going 20:17 have to defend yourself the reason you left where you were is because you don't want the atrocities that are happening 20:23 to happen to you so we're in the forest if we're going to die we're going to die because we are living not because we 20:29 were captured and we were then put through horror that is going on in the rest of the of Europe at that moment I'd 20:35 rather die in battle than rather die in my feet and live on my knees 100 per. now it's funny this won't be a long 20:41 discussion on actors because I usually just focus on the actors I kind of know of course this is a film that has a lot 20:46 of actors I just don't know but I like how they cast either local or people 20:52 that really well cast a Jewish group because that who else is going to be able to of course dig into An ancestry 21:00 and probably have some family members who have survived or were lost in the Holocaust so who better to really lean 21:07 into a supporting character or you have to bring that experience to life you and I aren't going to be cast I don't have 21:14 that experience they did cast people that weren't obviously Jewish yeah well there are leads I don't think were maybe lead might have been what we will talk 21:21 about are the four main leads which happens to be the Four Brothers now the top three build people 21:27 of course I knew we'll get to them but the fourth brother the youngest brother who played Aaron I did not know this actor but he's he's working a lot in 21:34 Hollywood right now he was 16 at the time his name is George McKay have you seen this guy before he's 32 now it 21:40 makes sense for the fact that he looked six that he was 16 he looked younger he looked like he was 10 to 12 I'm not even 21:46 joking go back and look at that film folks but he was 16 during that film his young face I've seen it now older what 21:52 are some of the films he's now been in because i' I know I've seen well I don't recognize a lot of the films he is a 21:58 stage as well he's in 1917 he was the lead in 1917 the movie 1917 that's why I 22:03 I was getting to that I was getting I apologize okay so uh George McKay who 22:09 played Aaron I don't know much about him either other than yeah he was in that film 1917 that's probably his biggest film that if you say that film people oh 22:16 that film okay but he's been in TV stage he's got bafta wins he's got satellite 22:22 uh wins he's got British independent film wins the guy is he's doing fine he's working on a film right now now 22:28 called Mission it's an upcoming British film Britain director by Paul Wright starring him so he's doing fine he 22:35 killed it in 1917 he kills it in that a lot of one takes I mean it's a beautifully designed film really good 22:41 good movie you'd really enjoy it no I want to see it and I love Sam mandes as a director 1917 came out five years ago 22:47 and it's getting to that point where it's man I just I just have to see the film it just keeps skipping Me by right 22:52 every day every day goes by that I don't see it's just another day that goes by that I don't see it speaking of defiance 22:58 first time viewing yes me too I missed this film I didn't see this film till watching for the podcast I'm getting to the point now in Ed's career where I met 23:06 Ed's films they weren't quite the huge bombastic films that they were in the past doesn't mean they weren't good I'm 23:11 just saying so I wasn't going to EDS films the way I was in the past or films in general so I'm getting to the point 23:16 now in the podcast journey is what I'm saying where I'm seeing his films for the first time as as it goes on I think 23:22 the only film that I've seen from now to the end of his filmography is Jack Reacher to so that's George McCay the 23:27 Third brother of course is played by Jamie Bell this was a name I knew without even having to you know look it 23:33 up I didn't know he was in the film to watch this a few days ago he's 38 now he 23:39 of course had that big breakout role with Billy Elliott did you ever see that movie Billy ell Elliot fun film been of 23:45 course tons of films that we've all seen big ones lately were like snow piercer 23:50 was a big one that he was in he played Tintin the Adventures of Tintin that was him uh he's currently working on a film 23:56 right now called rose bush pruning television was his big deal he did that for four years he was the main role in 24:03 the TV show called Turn Washington spies that was a very well done TV show yeah 24:08 so very accomplished good actor the all four brothers let's just be honest play by incred we get we get heavier to get 24:15 to the top we get heavier as goes on but but Jamie did a great job playing uh yeah third youngest or third third kid 24:22 and he's got three kids himself now he's married to the actress Kate Mara really well good for him his first wife for two 24:29 years was Evan Rachel Wood actually so look it he's made his way to Hollywood what you well he's well he's a handsome 24:35 fellow and he's yeah yeah not much more to say about Jamie other than just he did a very good job in the film and and 24:40 the show turn is a really was a really good show on AMC it was a really fun really good show you if you like spy 24:45 stuff that's the American start of the American spies during the Revolutionary time it was really well done he is 24:51 really good in the in the in the show and another British actor he of course is from Billingham County Durham England 24:58 we have another British actor he's not the last one either Ed pronounced his name Le of by the way like he actually 25:05 gave it two syllables really yeah in his book so maybe that is how it's pronounced I've always said leave 25:10 shriber too I think it's a I think it's LI or Le of he actually says it might you know what it might actually be but 25:16 you know if you're after a while off people know leave you just don't [ __ ] correct it you're in Hollywood I don't have the time or do I care you know what 25:23 I mean as long as the check is spell properly call me leave live whatever you want to call me just keep calling I keep 25:28 getting work so of course he was born Isaac Le shriber he is now 57 by the way 25:34 if you like any of the American football stuff they do in HBO when they do the Hard Knocks he is the voice they call 25:40 him the voice of God he is the voice of Hard Knocks so any special he's got great voice he does great voiceovers but 25:46 he usually does any of the HBO specials like they used to do the journey to the remember every year they had the outdoor 25:52 game and he would do a lot of the voicing of that when they would talk about the two teams getting ready for that game they'd be like a four-week 25:58 series and they'd have the game he do like the voice for it so he's a great voiceover actor especially when it comes to anything HBO Sports related so if 26:05 anyone listens or watches any of the HBO Sports documentaries most likely leev is 26:10 going to be your man who's the voice of course I love or admire him for being 26:16 married or with one of my favorite actresses and the one of the most gorgeous act actresses in Hollywood ever 26:21 a neomy Watts yeah still with her I believe no no they were no they broke up 26:27 in 2016 she said damn I've had eight years and I've let it go yeah I know I'm sure she's I'm sure she's moved on I'm 26:34 sure she moved on she's 56 Now the ages of 50s and 60s and 70s have changed oh 26:39 yeah uh just due to all the stuff in our foods and Medicine stuff but my grandparents were 60 they looked like 26:45 Wilford Brimley in his 40s you know what I mean like I thought when I was going to get to 60 I was going to look like 26:50 Grumpy Old Men and now you look at like Demi Moore and you look at like Brad Pit and these guys you're like I'm gonna 26:56 look pretty decent like it oh not as good as them I'll put a pin in that but at least I have a chance to have at 27:02 least mature a little bit better my grand in their 60 we're doing fine Le shriber has remarried he's been married 27:09 now for five or six years to his new wife she is 24 years his Junior so good 27:15 for him it must be nice being handsome and rich rich and famous yes no listen being rich and famous really helps yeah 27:22 you don't even have to be handsome like if you're just poor you you're not going to get these these hot people but when you aren't poor you have a real good 27:28 shot they've been together for five seven years they're fine but yeah good for him okay so let's talk about his uh 27:33 role in the film as the the second oldest brother Zeus great name but it's spelled Zed or zuu S what are your 27:42 thoughts on Le's role as Zeus now I should also say he does have Jewish background his 27:50 father was Protestant and his mother is Jewish if your mother is Jewish that makes you Jewish if your father is Jewish and he doesn't marry a Jewish 27:57 woman that's where the line ends really just like uh for Sicilian if you're a sicilian your mother must be Sicilian 28:04 she is not Sicilian you are no longer Sicilian his grandfather so his mother's father Alex mgram immigrated from the 28:10 Ukraine and his mother is Jewish there you which is perfect because Belarus is over in the former Soviet Union area 28:17 that's right as is the Ukraine so Le actually is playing a character from a 28:22 place where he's actually you know has Blood Ties too so what did you think of Le's role in this film you don't realize 28:27 how big he is like as a stature as a man like he really even kind of towers over James Bond there he's the brother who 28:34 finds the parents dead and shot he for whatever reason we never learned where tuvia is prior to the events because 28:41 we're kind of thrown into the events immediately we're thrown into the invasion of Germany into Russia into 28:49 bellarus and we don't know where tuvia is we just kind of three brothers are 28:54 coming home they like hid in the woods and they find their parents dead and then finally tuia shows up in the woods 29:00 later so at first we think leave you forget that he's not the main brother but he is kind of the main brother he's 29:06 the more hot-headed he's more about my survival is going to be fighting these bastards where tuvia is I'm going to 29:12 keep my people alive and they have this similar feeling for it but they there's definitely infighting great thing about 29:18 these two actors is we were able to understand that there's a family history of them like maybe Le's character trying 29:24 to always live up to tuvia tuvia's been held on a pedestal his whole life by parents probably and so you feel like 29:29 leaves has always been trying to in the shadow of his brother so when they finally have their falling out it's kind 29:35 of fun to see that the way that they were able to uh share that with us just in some looks with each other you kind 29:41 of felt that brotherly kind of like competition between them even though we know in real life they're not brothers 29:47 and so I thought Le was great he's the better person to look like the soldier or the person who wants to go fight like 29:53 I think that people were cast proper leave gave you the impression that he was tougher was going to go and be the 30:00 one who was going would save the day would be like the gii Joe type who would go head on into battle where you 30:06 definitely felt more of tuvia's character being more practical I guess thinking practically how do I get 30:11 Survival as opposed to running into the bullets how do we go around the bullets that's two of his thought process where 30:16 Zeus's process is let's go and take them on and get and get rid of them I thought two cuz it's starring Daniel Craig that 30:24 he would be quote unquote the tough guy so to speak for the film but he was more of the tender softer individual or 30:31 brother who wasit more even keeled levelheaded but still tough old the 30:36 brothers were tough you have to be to survive in the wilderness but Le of's portrayal of Zeus was awesome he just 30:43 seems to have this gravitas as an actor everything he's in it's funny I've never seen a film of his because he's in it 30:49 and I know it sounds terrible there's a few actors like that but when he's in a film I think well great what a great 30:55 treat isn't that great that he's in the film because I like guy he's a great character actor like I've gone to see a 31:01 Tom Cruz film I go to that film because Tom Cruz is in I'm not going to lie to you I've done that same with people like 31:07 Mel Gibson Stallone I mean all these big actors we grew up with I didn't even care what the film was oh they're in it 31:12 I'm seeing it those days are almost kind of gone leev is a actor where again when 31:18 he's in the film that I wanted to see and he happens to be in it I think to myself oh this film just got elevated so 31:23 it's a great uh compliment I think that when he's in a film it just elevates it because when he's in a scene I never 31:29 feel like oh this guy's what a is he sleeping on the job is he his voice 31:35 alone he's got that that you talk about that voice you know he's got that voice it's like a deeper Tom Hanks voice he's 31:40 just got this great way of speaking his dialect or the clipping of his voice the way he speaks of course his he's got a 31:46 towering presence too he's a big boy you know and he's not bad looking no wonder he's in Hollywood yeah I thought he did 31:52 a great job and I've always wanted to see Ray Donovan at the TV series I saw the first season I didn't get past that one but he's really good in that I mean 31:59 like you said he's got this big presence he he's very believable as a tough guy as a fixer type guy and you you can 32:05 totally believe that he's who he says he is in that in that role hell I wouldn't mess with Le shabber on the streets he's 32:11 a big dude you don't realize it till he's like towering over Daniel Craig a little bit you know you're kind of like wow he in their little fight scene their 32:18 little match ups you go man Daniel Craig would have been wrecked by Le sniper he's kind like yeah I don't know that 32:24 James was getting out of this one this is James Bond's toughest villain is his brother leave Sher I wish he had a cameo 32:30 but I don't believe he did in that Wolverine movie like deadpol no yeah they didn't bring him back they brought 32:36 back the other one yeah yeah the other guy which was a funny scene did you see the movie I did loved it brilly done 32:43 yeah I love it it fun Denzel so he is in a really good movie The Manchurian Candidate the Remake that's right I was 32:49 thinking the same film yeah brilliant film I actually thought that was a zick film because it has a feel of it but it 32:55 wasn't so I was kind of hoping it was I'd L to gotten that in this podcast oh sorry he has no connection whatsoever 33:00 you got to start a start my own my a Le podcast a Le okay here we go the bread and butter 33:08 Daniel Craig starring he's on the front cover this is a now I think it this is 33:14 going to sound like a criticism maybe it is maybe the one thing that I thought hm having Daniel on the front cover when 33:19 you look at the front cover just the movie poster it's a great shot he you see Daniel holding a weapon hiding 33:24 behind a tree he looks very Jan Bond esar now keep in mind yeah he just had 33:30 filmed and released before this film so he he's now James Bond this film comes 33:36 out and he's already on the big screen as the as the new James Bond at this time he just did conso Royale but that 33:42 was the only one film he had done before this one he has one James Bond film under his belt when this one comes out you're right about the star quality has 33:49 risen just a bit I don't blame the company I don't blame them for showcasing his mug a little bit having 33:55 this image on the poster it doesn't tell the story that's in the film it's a 34:00 little misleading absolutely that's what I thought the movie was about a band of Rebels rebels who had gone into the 34:06 woods to fight the the Nazis that's right I agree too so I went in this blind too and I knew this film cover this all I knew I didn't I never seen a 34:13 trailer if I have seen a trailer it's been 16 years so I don't remember I didn't know anything about the film I 34:18 didn't even know it was based on a true story I knew it was World War II in that area here's what I thought I thought he 34:24 was German and he was defying the German makes sense blonde hair blue 34:30 eyes know blonde hair blue eyes and he was defecting from the Germans helping 34:38 this is like the white savior complex issue and films that we have which I'm sure would have been a good film but I 34:44 thought oh here's another uh Tom Cruz Last Samurai coming in and saving the Jewish people from this German blue-eyed 34:51 guy played by Daniel Craig I still thought this all the way through and when he shows up on screen he meets him 34:57 in the four you know comes here's you know enter Daniel Craig 10 15 minutes into the film whatever it was I thought he was a 35:03 soldier and when they first saw him because he was wearing kind of like civilian clothes that he had run away from the it's like oh I to am on the run 35:11 and I will help you guys in your cause but he's like oh hey brother I'm like what they're Brothers casting wise he 35:17 does not look the part so I'm gonna get that out of the way because I thought he was German I thought he was everyone else in that community and includ his 35:24 brothers all have dark hair yeah and and so he didn't look the part he looked like Daniel Craig so but yes he stands 35:31 out like a sore thumb once the movie gets going you ease into it that here's our main character but yeah every time 35:38 they're you know he and the community are moving you're like my God he sticks out look Wick's telling the true story 35:43 but he could have really I mean he could have easily snuck in and out of his town in bellus with the hair he had no one 35:48 would have believed he was Jewish yeah he looks like no one else in their town like even the Jewish people had to be like why are we following him are we 35:55 sure yeah why are we following that's why he had trouble leading the the Jewish people is because he's the least 36:00 look he's exactly what they want like he's that's what they're talking about he like looks like Hitler's a great guy 36:07 exactly that's Hitler's blueprint for the perfect human being and he's leading us he's definitely not her Moses no so 36:14 that all aside all that aside okay fine you forget that as the movie goes on Bel 36:20 to you don't have to suspend it that hard or that long because once the film gets going and because Daniel's such a great actor he's such a Hollywood man 36:27 and then that's the key he plays against type he doesn't go into any James Bond 36:32 anything none of that doesn't use the Charisma doesn't use any of that he almost looks like he's I mean there's 36:38 that one moment he looks scared he doesn't know what to do when they get to that that water crossing like it's his brother who has to help him across it 36:43 was great that he did not play the I've got everything under control all the time I know everything is happening I'm 36:48 in don't worry about I got a special Gadget especially I think it helps us we saw it 16 years later right so fans who want to see this maybe 16 years ago 36:56 might have had a bit of a problem with it because they're expecting Bond I appreciate as I'm sure you do and as 37:02 hopefully ciles do where you can stop looking at a person and thinking they're their character they they get to play 37:09 the people he's not James Bond in the film so I appreciate him not being James Bond in this film and I appreciate him 37:15 actually leaning very far away from it and doing some real acting because look 37:20 as as James Bond it's I look pretty I'm dashing I'm going to beat the [ __ ] out of people I've got these things going on 37:25 I've got everything under control in this one he is acting as if a real person is trying to figure out how do I 37:31 keep a community of people alive in a situation and time frame I mean you're [ __ ] Stones that's how [ __ ] 37:38 pucker tight you are it's you're constantly a threat every time you close your eyes you're like a you actually become a forest animal you're like a 37:44 deer or a squirrel every little sound you're perked up is that the Germans coming for us that has got to be an 37:49 awful existence to try to survive in the woods being hunted 247 365 so I thought 37:56 Daniel Craig trade that beautifully and the fact that we didn't get him being he 38:01 doesn't really have the heroic moments right like if you think about it all heroic moments go to the other brothers I don't know if that was a zwick plan 38:07 maybe it's in the audio but it's if at least the movie people got their poster to sell Daniel Craig as the hero yeah 38:14 zwick was able to at least tell his story about the reality and it not being Daniel Craig even when they take on the 38:19 tank at the end there that little action sequence at the end there of course it's it's Le of shriber brother who event he 38:25 does do a heroic moment but it is Le does save to save his ass for sure and now that was the one like I knew that 38:31 was coming we all knew that was coming but it's still great to watch don't give me wrong it's always fun to watch Nazis 38:38 get mow down it's always fun absolutely but you know it's it's gonna happen you watch enough movies and then not just 38:44 watch them but do like we do where we actually try to nitpick through them and and really break them down you start to 38:50 see the tropes you you know immediately the notes that are coming up like you hear someone say this and you go that's 38:55 going to happen someone says the only way to kill a wolf is to shoot it in the balls with a silver bullet on a blue moon you know that there's going to be a 39:02 blue moon a wolf is going to get shot in the balls with a silver bullet like you just know at the end of film that's how we're ending the film they didn't say 39:07 that line of dialogue or show you this one thing for it not to come back once you start seeing these tropes like when 39:13 his character is like the Russians are pulling out and they're not going to help out you're like they're gonna [ __ ] show up they're showing up right 39:19 like if they didn't show up you'd be like he actually left his brother behind you have to expect tropes in films they 39:26 want to make money especially these Studios if they're putting the kind of money into it they want to send people 39:31 home usually with a Happy Feeling which I enjoy but I also am a person who enjoys the reality of films too where 39:37 sometimes you don't always get the winners to win have you seen that new Trilogy that he's doing when he plays 39:43 Detective Ben W Blanc those are great they each have a different title yep knives out and Glass Onion that's right 39:48 and then they're working on a third film right now yes yeah I think they're I think that he's great I love that he's got this Resurgence and apparently 39:55 Daniel Craig said we're going to keep making them people keep watching them so Ryan Johnson I think is a great writer 40:01 director done Looper brick or one of my two favorite films yeah I think Ryan Johnson has found his wheelhouse too 40:06 with these does a great job with them so I think the idea there's no expectation just have fun and look at that they're 40:12 killing it so we're going to get to now some of Ed's stories you ready all right yes one day as I oh in 40:19 1996 I was sitting in Dodger Stadium with my childhood friend clay Fran veteran screenwriter he told me about an 40:26 obituary he'd read in the New York Times about a man named tuvia bielski who' survived the Holocaust by living in the 40:33 forests of bellarus he ATT Tred down a book about him by Nama Tech called Defiance and suggested there was a movie 40:40 in his story I groaned not another movie about victims no he said this is a story 40:47 about Jewish Heroes like the macbes only better he was right the Triumph of the 40:52 Four bosski Brothers tuvia Z soil and Aaron who fought the Nazis in the Deep 40:58 forests of bellarus and saved 1200 lives was unlike anything I'd ever read about that dark time rather than passive 41:05 scapegoats were in yellow stars here were fighters in their fur hats brandishing submachine guns instead of 41:11 helplessness and submission here was rage and resistance we touched on that pretty much but that's the idea for him 41:18 it was he didn't say Schindler's List and I don't think he was maybe thinking about but he's saying that's kind of 41:23 what he's saying not that we've been there done that we don't need to do this again we don't to show the victimhood of 41:30 this tragedy let's show a victory yeah let's show some strength because there are stories out there of strength yeah 41:35 I'm glad he went with this story and stayed away from that because that is your standard holoc story a lot of times 41:41 because the closer one looks at real life Heroes the less they conform to the simple varities Hollywood finds easiest 41:47 to Pedal but the Bowski brothers were men of Flesh and Blood it was said they were like blocks of wood raised wild in 41:54 the forest uneducated unsu sophisticated volatile sexually predacious fiercely 42:01 loyal at times murderous at times merciful they were the least likely of leaders yet these flawed men confronted 42:07 daunting moral decisions whether to seek Vengeance or rescue others how to recreate a sense of community among 42:14 those who had lost everything how to keep Faith alive when all evidence was that God had turned away and gradually 42:21 reluctantly even they Rose to the task discovering in themselves something extraordinary 42:27 now we didn't really touch about that but he brings up the point that does Showcase in the film you're rooting for 42:32 them in the sense that yes you do not want to see this community killed but particularly the two older brothers they 42:39 do commit Acts or decisions that are you were like oh I don't know if I would do that Craig's older brother he he goes 42:45 into that one of the more brutal scenes but I know it's a Revenge killing his parents were killed and they were killed 42:51 by the law enforcement of the town that were being pressured by the um the 42:57 to kind of turn on their own people they did and his parents were murdered so he goes into the police Chiefs whatever 43:04 while they're having family dinner kills his two sons kills the father at the dinner table and and the mother is like 43:11 yelling well just kill me too kill me too and you're just like oh my gosh and he just walks away no you're going to 43:17 live with the death of your family which is even worse and so it's a brutal SE when that happened I thought we were 43:22 going to get that at the end of the film CU I didn't know the film I didn't know it was a film about survival I thought the film was going to be about about 43:27 again him revenging defying see they're going to kill the people that killed his family oh no we're just doing the first 10 minutes what's interesting about that 43:34 scene is one his parents weren't killed by the Nazis his parents were killed by 43:39 people they lived with their entire life who on the dime decided to rat them out 43:45 without any real what do you call it when they people will change alliances very quickly oh you're empowered now 43:51 okay I I like you I like you now yeah that is bloodthirst for them I mean look there's history with those people right 43:57 so obviously the brothers had been in trouble with the law before so they they've had interactions with that 44:03 family and that group and those people didn't seem to care that they killed his parents so he was like you know what the 44:10 Jewish faith it goes by the Old Testament there is an eye for an i in the Old Testament so this is an eye for 44:16 an eye scenario you came to my family and if I had been there you would have 44:22 murdered me as well so Daniel Craig sees it as I'm removing you because not only that now do I not trust you you'll do 44:29 this to all of us you're going to continue to hunt us down because he's hiding in the barn when they came looking for him anyways he had turned in 15 Jews and he was happy about the money 44:35 he got out of it yeah you took mine I'm taking yours and that's exactly how he looked at it is you took my parents you 44:40 took what I love I'm not taking what you love he had if the father had to watch him kill his two sons first because the son went for the gun and so he killed 44:47 his two sons first who knows who knows if he would have killed those kids if he didn't have the gun he may have just went there to kill the dad I was 44:52 surprised by the killing of the sons first but granted he pulled the weapon yeah yeah in 20 5 while prepping Blood 44:58 Diamond I was on route to mosm Beek on the endless LA to London flight when chance and Circumstance finally favored 45:05 us sitting across from me was Daniel Craig he was heading home to begin production in his first Bond movie 45:11 Casino Royale it's hard to say which of us was more anxious Dan was being trolled by the London tabloids enduring 45:18 taunts as the blonde Bond his work to that point had been as a gifted character actor he knew that other 45:24 actors careers had been dwarfed by the role of bond and well wasn't at all sure he'd made the right choice meanwhile I 45:29 was overwhelmed by the prospect of shooting the big movie in Africa also by being away from home for so long we 45:35 shared what we both knew to be our first world problems traded email addresses toasted each other with Ambien and went 45:42 to sleep Dan and I didn't speak for two years meets Daniel Craig not knowing he's going to work with him later but that was his first meeting of Daniel I'm 45:49 going to go do this film BL Diamond you're going to go do James Bond but it's interesting to get that idea of just Daniel saying I don't know man I 45:55 don't it's a huge opportunity and look it's a big paycheck too it's going to take care of my family myself for years 46:01 to come but I'm going to be James Bond and I remember the criticisms he's my favorite Bond I will 46:07 go on record saying he is my favorite Bond I love Daniel Craig I think he elevated the bond series it needed to 46:13 elevate because it was getting dwarfed by some of the things mission impost doing and what Jason borne was doing 46:19 they had to move away from the sexy 1960s basically Hugh Hefner with a gun 46:26 type of guy they had to be more modernized spy in the world we're living 46:31 in obviously now hind being 2020 they definitely picked the right guy in my opinion yeah there was criticism when he 46:37 was blonde I remember the blonde Bond tagline and that was a real thing at the time even though he yes the naysayers 46:43 were one over but now there's talk that there might not even be a white Bond can you imagine the outlash that might 46:49 listen after it's like if the person is good like I've heard Idis Ela you tell me Idris Elba wouldn't be a great 46:55 [ __ ] he too old now it sucks some they want they want that they want to see Bond aged you know I mean they 47:01 kind of want to see an older I love E I think he's a great he's already he's already 5 you think his AG out the thing 47:08 I guess you because it takes three years they haven't even C they haven't started pre-production it takes at least two 47:13 years to film so he's goingon to be 54 55 by the time it come like how many films can he's goingon to be 65 ding his 47:19 fourth Bond film like it's too bad maybe part of the problem with bond is they don't want to change too much like they 47:24 keep rehashing stories they've done from the books Maybe time to I mean I know they've talked about female ones or 47:30 whatever but as long as the character works as long as the story Works fans will go will go just out of curiosity 47:37 then it'll be up to the filmmakers to make it land double seven is a moniker isn't it isn't that like a yeah that's what I'm saying so give someone else the 47:43 new7 status and make it someone else like it's if it's about7 status you could call it7 thank you there we go we 47:50 solved it there you go we solved it for you here on the ZX flick podcast it has been solved it struck me that Daniel 47:56 would be perfect for for the part of tuvia the eldest brother I took a flyer and sent him the script he read it in 48:01 bed the night it arrived and to my astonishment and Delight wrote back the next day to say yes he was moved by the 48:08 script I was floored it was only the first of many times he would astonish me I later learned that his father Tim was 48:14 among the first British soldiers to enter the Concentration Camp of Bergen bson fittingly I found this out from 48:20 Dan's girlfriend as it was unlike him to talk about himself get a little idea of what Daniel's like you can just tell you 48:26 could tell he's just a good guy yeah but no reports to to say otherwise but nothing to to break that belief he gets 48:33 it he understands who he is and he just plays into it he does seem like a great human being to carry the weight of 48:40 Britain's greatest character on your back knowing the level of scrutiny and 48:48 just the popular of it and to do for so long and to changed people from being 48:54 blonde bond to being James Bond now people are boning the fact that he can no well spoil alert he can no longer be 49:01 Bond sorry folks exactly right yeah exactly be careful what you wish for folks you got it you didn't want him 49:07 around anymore guess what that's what I mean is it James Bond or is it double s they might have to change the name well we've already we saw that that's right 49:14 even though Daniel Craig is the blonde hair what I love is that he wanted to be part of a storytelling and history that 49:20 his grandfather was a part of walking into the concentration camps what a legacy I mean what a yeah craziness that 49:26 must have been can't fathom what that was like was it his grandfather you said is his grandfather that's he said grandfather Yeah so I mean once the 49:33 production was a reality I began thinking about who could play zish the second eldest bilsky brother I'd loved 49:39 everything Le of shriber had done on Broadway at off from Glen Gary Glenn Ross to MCB Beth his unique blend of 49:45 skill size and raw power seemed perfect we met for dinner in Spring 2007 after 49:51 one of his performances in Eric Bean's talk radio an actor's actor whose work in the classical rep repor is often 49:57 considered the finest of his generation leev was such an engaging conversationalist that it wasn't until I 50:03 noticed the waiters putting chairs on tops of tables that I realized the restaurant was closing his thoughts on 50:08 the character were direct provocative and funny that would describe le as well 50:13 that someone with such facility for language could so convincingly portray zush a loutish casually violent Miller 50:19 son is only the surface evidence of his genius nice words for Le of course not surprising we we touched on that about I 50:26 like how Ed said it too size his voice his stature I would suspect that LE is 50:32 probably if you were to measure his IQ he seems like he's an intelligent person I don't know why you get that with him 50:37 yeah you get that feeling that he's yeah he's really great with the English language being able to to speak and 50:42 pronunciate so like you automatically know he's kind of some kind of at least I mean not classical education but at 50:48 least a higher education where if he's going to be a stage actor if he's really known for that being able to be into 50:55 dialect and be able to to use dialect for your benefit on the stage makes him 51:00 you just can assume immediately that he is smarter than his looks he may look like he could knock down a tree and he 51:06 can he's got that dual threat where he's smart and strong and so that's that's a big threat that's what you get in this 51:11 in this film from him he's just Country Strong he looks huge yeah and I love the names I loveus like almost feels like 51:20 it's like its own God like like a Greek god type of feel like the names just 51:25 feel more Godly like or just like I don't know foreign in a way but in a just the way they say the names you're 51:31 like man that's a really cool name when a few years later I cast him as chess Grandmaster Boris basy in Pawn sacrifice 51:38 a role that demanded he performed scenes entirely in Russian the Russian actors playing opposite him swore he was a 51:44 native speaker he was the perfect implosive foil to Toby Maguire's opaque emotionally vital Bobby fiser and his 51:52 Stillness and subtlety of reaction in the close-ups during the matches rival the finest silent movie acting since 51:58 John Barrymore all right so that's a little bit of a tease coming up on our filmography journey I will be doing Pawn 52:03 sacrifice a movie I have not seen yet and I didn't know that LE was in that I love it when H directors get somebody 52:09 back again so obviously they had a good working relationship for that to happen yeah whoever they has the dialect coaches over there were phenomenal I 52:15 really believe they were speaking Russian for the fans who haven't watched this you're going to hear it in Russian and then you're going to hear them 52:20 speaking in English and I think that was the way for them to go when they're speaking English that's them speaking their native Yiddish tongue and then 52:27 when they're speaking in Russian it's them speaking in their country tongue it took me a minute to figure out why are we doing this and then I was like oh I 52:33 get it this is when the community is talking in in English they're speaking yish they're speaking the the Jewish 52:38 tongue when they're talking with the Russian shoulders or people not of the Jewish faith they're speaking in Russian 52:45 so that they're now speaking their actual native tongue as opposed to their religious tongue look it we're Americans 52:51 some people can't make it through in glorious bastards because it's in like seven different languages but it's like we can't read you 52:58 I actually watch all my movies and TV shows with captions really that's a big thing nowadays people do now I find it's 53:05 more and more people are I mean I love foreign films so I watch them with caption have no problem with that but I do find that when I'm if I'm watching 53:10 captions I do spend more time looking down I hear you and you're not wrong because you are looking at the word 53:16 you're looking down to read it the majority of film is not visual especially if you're watching like a a courthouse drama true language is is 53:23 very important you're saying yes so much dialogue gets missed because I'm looking at the actor's eyes or their hair I hear 53:30 you I hear you you're focusing more when you're reading it yeah see I'm the kind of person who after the first time 53:35 seeing the movie I actually prefer now that I know what's going to happen I prefer watching the things that I'm not 53:41 paying attention to because I'm supposed to focus on I like saying oh my God they're so and so doing this oh my God I 53:47 how did I miss that like I like that but if I'm reading the captions I'm not looking for that anymore watch the movie The First Time a captions F do what Ryan 53:53 says then try without it and now that you know what the story is see what you're missing while you're reading there's movies that I've watched of 53:59 course a 100 times like the rocky series for example and when you watch with captions I've done with my co-host other 54:05 people who swear they've seen the films 100 times I'll do the reviews with them and with the captions on and my co-host 54:10 will be like I had no idea they said that whatever that thing is Stone Stallone no no not just Stallone how 54:16 dare you we're talking about other actors and side scenes but you're right but that's just it too there's some people with heavy accents or or marble 54:23 mouth I have marble mouth I swear but there's no argument for games enjoy the films as you are but I find I'm such a 54:29 dialogue person that you'll get it very quick what I do now is I'm actually a pretty I'm a pretty fast reader so the captions will come on a half a second 54:36 two seconds before they say it I'll read it and then watch them talk it so I'm actually know what they're saying you'll 54:42 get to the point where you become adapt at it where you're reading it you're not reading along when they're talking 54:47 you're literally saying hi how you doing today Charles I've read that in my mind in this because you just you imprint 54:53 read you don't read every word like you read a book you just see it so I already know what they're going to say when they're saying so I'm already it's hard 54:59 to explain but so you go to close caption movies only so when I saw Dune 2 in the theaters fantastic film I loved 55:06 the Dune films the first two are amazing films oh yeah away was amazing yeah even took my kids they love the films too but 55:12 I saw the second film the theater with the family and I was like I don't know what anyone I'm not even joking because 55:17 it was so loud and bombastic now it was beautiful and I I know the story so I was able to follow the story but there 55:23 was dialogue I just you know between the javar bardam the way he speaks right uh true yeah this yeah yeah tons of that 55:30 kind of speak great actor but I don't know what the f he's saying I watched it again when it came on streaming I watched it like a few months later it 55:36 was a whole new film like that's what they're saying I had no idea what half to die I love the film but I knew I 55:43 actually when I was watching the theaters I was like don't stress out about Ryan you get to watch it again like you were saying I get to watch it 55:48 again with the c that's what they're saying anyways that's what I'm get I miss so much dialogue in the theater 55:53 okay to play young as soy Bowski I chose Jamie Bell who'd been marvelous at 14 in 55:58 Steven dal's film adaptation of Billy Elliott at 22 like a oil he was no longer a boy but not yet a grown man 56:06 this moment of suspension was precisely the story I wanted to tell about a young man who comes into his own in the 56:12 harshest of conditions Daniel in particular forged a strong bond with jimie taking on the kind of fraternal 56:18 protective role an elder brother would have in such circumstances that translates in the film too me because 56:24 they spend a lot of time together because Le character probably didn't spend a lot of time on set together CU once leave in the beginning and the end 56:30 they come back but in the most part leave is off with the Russians his character uh zus is off with the the 56:36 Russians fighting so makes sense that he would build a good rapport with those two because they're doing a lot of the heavy lifting in those other scenes 56:42 together yeah it's actually a good point that it worked out the way the two Heavies so to speak the two leads had to 56:47 lead two different parts of the film for quite a while there so yeah good point George McKay was only 15 when I cast him 56:53 as Aaron bilsky the youngest brother to my horror he arrived on the set for his first day of shooting with his face 56:59 swollen by a black eye having run into a lampost or so I was told though barely able to see he insisted he was able to 57:06 work I scrambled and wrote in a difficult stunt to justify his condition which George performed with the plum he 57:12 immediately became a favorite of the actors playing his older brothers who treated him with exactly the kind of rough Good Humor you might expect 57:19 whatever we put George through was nothing compared to the beating he was to take 11 years later as the lead in 57:25 Sam Mendes's extraordinary World War I Saga of the Lost soldier in 1917 So High 57:30 Praise again from Ed so that's awesome because I did noticed towards the end of the film that his face was swollen you 57:38 know I knew there had been like that was from the air rid thing so it made sense but I did not know that was real that's amazing it's kind of like with the Luke 57:44 Skywalker uh got their car crash and so they had to have like this scene of him getting hurt be attacked by the waa to 57:51 understand why he had the scar in his face where he almost died in the car crash after a new hope that's on your 57:57 feet thinking this why edwick and Lucas that's why these guys are where they are is because they have the foresight to go 58:04 okay this is a problem but it's not a problem if he had bumped his face and he was in some kind of crime drama you know 58:09 he's in the courtroom and he's playing like the BFF now we've got issues when you're leasing an action film you can 58:15 add action that will now make the audience like myself think it was just a makeup effect and this is the first time hearing it that it's not so that pretty 58:21 cool it's pretty cool to learn that that was uh the real thing it was quite the little injury that he had there and uh they tied it I mean it was swollen I was 58:28 like man they really did a great job with that prosthetic swelling I'm like he looks like he just got hurt and in 58:33 the end of the day it was real toward the end of the first Friday of shooting leev clay and I were standing together 58:40 in the partisan Camp when one of the extras approached us and asked if they could have a Sabbath Kish at R he 58:46 explained they were part of the tiny group of Jews still living in what was once the largest and most vibrant Jewish 58:52 community in Eastern Europe it would mean a lot to them he said as well as be a blessing for the film as it grew dark 58:59 craft Services provided bread and wine while the special effects team lit oil lanterns an aged Rabbi stepped forward 59:05 and as he in toned the prayer I looked over and saw Lev's face full of feeling in the flickering light he had told me 59:12 his research for the movie had allowed him to dig deeper into his own Jewish roots and I assumed he was thinking of 59:17 his ancestors I knew liev's maternal grandfather had immigrated from Ukraine to the United States so it came as no 59:23 surprise when I heard after Russia invaded that country in 2022 that he was among the first celebrities to work with 59:29 the world Central kitchen cooking 2,000 lbs of Brisket to provide a traditional Passover meal for refugees from that war 59:37 that's that's awesome and that's great that swick and you would hope that even if the director of the film wasn't 59:42 Jewish that they would understand whether like I'm not a religious person but that if I was on that set there's 59:47 just something about right allowing people to embrace their Traditions their 59:53 history who they are because as a teacher I have kid kids from all over where I live in New York we have kids 59:59 from Arab nations from Hispanic Nations all over Asian Nations so the different 1:00:04 holidays they celebrate we always are just very open to letting them celebrate like that's what that's what America was 1:00:11 that's what we're supposed to be is very open to other people's beliefs and celebrations and I think it's very cool 1:00:17 not only that but you get a chance to um be a part of something you've never been a part of either if you're not a Jewish 1:00:22 actor that day or you you know I'm sure some of the guys on the crew weren't but to be a part of something to see a 1:00:28 tradition especially given that the circumstances of the film you're talking about uh I heard you talk about Glory 1:00:34 but like when they broke out into Himel in the the camp scene like it's got to 1:00:39 be kind of this chilling moment to almost be living a part of History being like almost brought back to life on your 1:00:45 set of your movie so I would hope that any director would have been very open 1:00:50 to saying I actually feel like we would be doing a disservice if we aren't doing this exact same thing it's really cool 1:00:56 that they were able to do that I'm sure that was a very moving experience for everyone involved and a chance to live 1:01:02 someone else's uh history at the same moment well said there was no need to instruct the actors to shiver they were 1:01:08 shivering for real when I once dared compliment Dan who I don't think ever once took Refuge from the cold in his 1:01:14 trailer he looked perplexed not hard act cold when you're facing your nuts off he 1:01:19 said in other words no conversation about soslowsky was required to communicate a motivation as simple as 1:01:25 surviv survival whether an actor was digging a trench peeling a potato or loading a weapon with frozen fingers the 1:01:32 story was telling itself I keep being cold it's the wor in the milit you learn to be cold a lot you learn all the 1:01:37 little you got to keep moving your feet St up your feet there's all these little things you can do to try to stay from being cold but once you let cold seep 1:01:43 into your mind it does not disappear it is a long [ __ ] day and you like look at your watch like I got eight more 1:01:48 hours to go on this 12 hour sh it's you got you got to find it you got you got to dig deep to get past the cold and I 1:01:54 did notice during the film they did film in the winter that snow that you saw in the film was all real real weather real 1:02:00 weather they were in they used it in the film was amazing and yeah you could see that the actors that's what Ed is saying 1:02:06 they didn't have to act cold they were cold and it's portrayed in the film which then made me think they're still just on a film and they're only there 1:02:13 for you know whatever the time was to film they go home at the end of the day they're not living there overnight but they're filming in the cold is what I'm 1:02:18 saying but those people were there the real people that were in and I think that probably is what helped them as 1:02:25 actors especially like we said they're all mostly Jewish actors they were too young to have lived the experience but 1:02:30 now they're getting firsthand experience of what their ancestors went through so who's gonna be the first one to complain right like who who's gonna say something 1:02:37 like who is going to be that Diva that's gonna say uh Mr zwick a little chilly my hands are cold my my hands are cold yeah 1:02:44 and then he turns them your hands are cold just starts laying into them about the history of the people you're playing 1:02:49 your hands are called if I was an actor I think that'd be amazing motivation like yeah is it uncomfortable yeah but you think about it like when I'm done 1:02:55 I'm getting paid for this the people I'm portraying did not get paid for this they didn't know if they were going to make it some of the people I'm portraying are died there's perspective 1:03:02 I think we all need that sometimes you have to have that perspective of like I'm doing something to bring a story to 1:03:07 life and I'm actually living in the elements that these people had to live in for three years in the woods to 1:03:13 survive to not be eliminated from the face of the earth I think I can make my six-hour shift got craft Services over 1:03:20 here like when I'm done from the scene I go over there and get some soup you know I mean like these people did not have this option so I think I can here in 1:03:26 this snow freeze my ass off for a little bit and it'll be okay so probably obviously that whole cast probably had that in their thoughts and Daniel's not 1:03:32 going to be the he's not no there's no way I am not gonna be the guy who is going to be last I'm gonna be the first 1:03:39 one out set and the last one out set like I'm going to live the role of this guy I'm never gonna complain even if my 1:03:44 toes fall off I'm still not gonna complain I'm gonna make it through this film can you imagine the war got around 1:03:49 oh there's Daniel James Bond he wasn't even doing that for himself he was that's just naturally who he was too 1:03:56 like it was even an act that's just who he is yeah him and Le seem to be like unbelievably I mean they look like I've 1:04:01 never heard anything to the contrary and we're in a day and age where things are coming out things are coming out and so 1:04:06 far those two seem to be uh squeaky clean so far yeah I think I think we're good moment in the film epitomizes Dan 1:04:13 the actor and the man the refugee camp has been overrun the end is near his 1:04:18 character was to give a ringing speech exhorting the others not to give up but what if he is terrified and unable to 1:04:23 speak I thought what if someone else steps up movie stars can be tricky when someone takes away their words it's my 1:04:31 [ __ ] scene one once said to me when I suggested to Dan that jimie might give the speech instead he was quiet for a 1:04:37 moment then simply said right later as he watched Jaimie nail it there were smiling tears in his eyes relationships 1:04:44 with actors while you're working together can seem as intimate as love affairs until they fall in love with 1:04:49 their next director that is I can't say I got to know Dan well I only know we spent a Lithuanian winter freezing our 1:04:55 nuts off and I love him still it's about as good as you can say yeah yeah sometimes you just got to take have 1:05:00 faith in someone else's Vision we all think we're going to be the brave heart we're goingon to the rousing speech they may take our lives we'll never take our 1:05:07 free you know we think that's us but sometimes what people do on a range I call them range rambos when you're 1:05:12 shooting at a standing Target or Target that's not firing back and not moving you're the baddest [ __ ] on the 1:05:17 planet but when that live fire range that two-way range happens it is easy for people to suddenly seize up and 1:05:23 freeze in a moment of doubt I've seen it happen it can happen you don't know until you're tested yourself you don't 1:05:29 know how you're going act you think you know until you're thrown into the fire and then you learn immediately what 1:05:34 person you are where you are and so for having Daniel to freeze in that moment because we're having this whole big talk 1:05:40 about the Exodus uh it's coming up on Passover we're talking about you know Moses leading people through the water 1:05:46 kind of thing it actually felt better that jimie said it cuz it made him so much more human as opposed to like this 1:05:53 just like cuz otherwise it would I don't think zck would have attended this and we don't know how it happened in real life but it does feel more like we're 1:05:59 trying to do a retelling of the of Moses through this film right like where I'm leading my people out now we're going to cross a water like the parallels between 1:06:06 the Moses story and this story for the film are easy to draw having our Moses 1:06:12 not be able to part the waters and have someone else step up just gives it that much more weight of that Dan's character 1:06:18 really is human he does have his moment of Triumph when he kind of runs around and he actually B takes his puts his own 1:06:24 life on the line to draw all the fire from the Germans and the tank until his brother shows up so he gets his kind of 1:06:30 Mo Moses moment but for him not not to know what to do what do we do this is a giant water crossing the Germans are on 1:06:37 our ass it's almost over he you know his brother steps up it's just I think that is the right move in that film I think 1:06:43 it makes that the movie more powerful because of it and less tropy or like 1:06:48 okay yeah we saw that coming as some movies of a with a lesser director would have done Defiance was personal to leev 1:06:54 of course too weeks after the bskis visited the set while shooting a scene in which the brothers discover a mass 1:07:01 grave I found him standing not far from our Recreation a ghoulish pit filled with pale naked bodies in the 1:07:09 cruestv had stumbled upon a small concrete plinth mostly overgrown with 1:07:14 weeds commemorating the slaughter of 3,000 Jews in those same Woods as I walked over to stand beside him I saw 1:07:21 his face was wet with tears these were my people he said that was powerful you 1:07:26 wonder if they even knew I mean that's you know probably just happen stance they the same Woods you know they're filming this that you know something 1:07:33 similar happened but 3,000 holy [ __ ] that's just like it's unfathomable I 1:07:38 mean they do have that one scene and I think that's good I I'm glad that zwick only had the one scene it kind of just 1:07:43 made sure that the audience knew what Stakes truly were for these people I hate to always go back to ter but kind 1:07:48 of like what we once by time Hollywood if you know the story you don't need to be over the head over what's going on with the Manson family right they're 1:07:54 always the the monster in the background that we're no is circling us same thing in this we always the Nazis are always 1:08:01 in our back of our minds we know that at any moment something could happen and so to have to have that quick scene 1:08:07 especially the younger brothers see it to have that it just make sure the audience remembers this is what this is what's happening in the background while 1:08:13 you're now watching it what's going on outside these Woods is this so you get the weight of why their Survival and why 1:08:19 they the need to make this work in the woods is so so heavy on everyone involved glad there was just a Qui 1:08:26 hey just in case you forget this is what really happening right now and so just keep that in the back of your mind but 1:08:31 now we're going to tell the story and then you don't know if we gonna end up here because like you said I didn't know the the story at all so I wasn't even 1:08:37 sure how this ended like I had no clue how this ended like I honestly thought when the tank rolled up and they made the crossing I was like oh this this 1:08:43 seems right this seems like they're gonna get slaughtered on the other end like they made this whole journey and they the cruelty of life is you were 1:08:49 actually probably safer on the other side of the water and now you come over this way and then you're and then obviously things turn out different now 1:08:55 and go oh that's how this ended and you're like two years later you're like holy crap they live that long on there so it gives you as the audience M feel 1:09:01 like a good sense of relief like oh God I'm glad they didn't all get slaughtered but in the reality of World War II I 1:09:07 wouldn't have been surprised if that movie had ended with them being moaned down by that tank unit that is World War 1:09:12 II no I actually feel like this is exactly how it ended and I'm like ah I'm glad it didn't because that's the reality but man it would have been a 1:09:17 gut-wrenching punch right like it's kind of like uh at the end of Glory when I first saw Glory they're running into that's they face they face the I'm like 1:09:25 wait a minute we don't win this and then takes your legs up you go oh man I was 1:09:31 all built up by this music I was ready I was like I was ready to jump into the screen take on these Rebels people still 1:09:36 lost their Liv now final battle with the tank but yes yeah no yeah but I'm saying like they weren't I thought they no they 1:09:42 weren't obliterated like they're done they have rifles and they've got a Panzer tank like they're done that's 1:09:47 when I knew uh Le of shers character was going to come I mean it's cliche but hey I don't care mow them down it was a fun 1:09:53 scene it was absolutely yeah absolutely we needed it after all that I'm here for the Nazi killing yeah James Newton 1:10:00 Howard Steve Rosen blo and I flew to England to record the score we were in ABY Road Studios yes that ABY road 1:10:07 waiting to begin the session when James sat down at an old battered upright in the corner and began banging out Martha 1:10:13 my dear it was on this very piano In This Very Room that Paul had recorded it closing my eyes it could have been 1968 1:10:21 and I was there with the lads later when Josh Bell one of the world's foremost violinists arrived I was in for yet 1:10:27 another musical treat as he began to play James's score the power and virtuosity of his solos was overwhelming 1:10:35 it was all there the loss the ferocity the despair the nobility everyone in the 1:10:41 booth was weeping for good reason James was later nominated for an Oscar for his work you know it's funny Ed's worked 1:10:47 with a lot of people and his filmography who get nominated and or win Oscars I mean from right from Glory Denzel won 1:10:54 for best supporting actor y I think Leo was nominated for blood diamond I mean it's just it's amazing how many of his 1:11:00 films have been nominated for awards he seems to bring out as a director as a director can and should you know kind of 1:11:06 brings out these uh award-winning performances or art Love and Other Drugs both an and Jake were nominated for 1:11:13 Golden Globes for example yeah he has that ability with actors I think he seems to work well with actors who want 1:11:19 to work well I mean he had the issues with Matthew brri that's his mom yeah yeah that was 1:11:27 but what a [ __ ] I think for the most part an actor's actor and him who like to collaborate with directors he does 1:11:33 very well with it looks like well he got what he had three movies with in a row with Denzel he's gotten Denzel he's 1:11:39 grabbed Leo like he's gotten really good actors so clearly those actors you don't 1:11:45 repeat with somebody if you think they're dog [ __ ] right like you go you see how it's going to be and I mean 1:11:51 Denzel his first role won on the Oscar and he put a a lot of faith in what in what Ed was doing on your episode you 1:11:58 talked about how like they held on him till they got that tear yeah that's that's putting a lot of faith in the 1:12:03 actor to understand what you're doing and him to then understand what the the director is doing and then he came back for two more times at an early private 1:12:09 screening of the film back in Los Angeles Kirk Douglas 92 at the time put 1:12:15 in a surprise appearance after the credits with the aid of a walker he made his way to me through the crowd his 1:12:21 speech had been badly affected by his stroke but his strength as he grabbed me by the shoulders was still impressive he 1:12:27 leaned in and whispered in my ear that was my movie he was right had I made it 1:12:35 in 1962 Kirk would have been my hands down first choice to play tuvia when I told the story to Daniel Craig he smiled 1:12:41 and nodded the next day I received a hand delivered note on Kirk's personal stationer that made me cry in a barely 1:12:48 legible scroll he had written you owe me one night's sleep from that moment on if 1:12:53 I've ever been in doubt about writing to someone whose work has moved me I think about Kirk and send the note the Old 1:12:59 Pros knew what it was all about that's a great story that's better than a better than an Oscar I look I know some people 1:13:05 really want but sometimes the respect of your peers or the elders the ones who come before you yeah you know I mean we 1:13:12 we know how it is like when you're you start off at the bottom you have your Heroes people you want to get to anyone in that range even acknowledges 1:13:19 something you do as creators or stuff you always you're always battling with yourself is this even worth the thing 1:13:25 you always have that internal monologue youself like why do I do this and then but it's moments like that when someone says something that that moves them it 1:13:32 humbles you but you kind of have that pride of like I moved Kirk Douglas the man worked with kurick I moved him there 1:13:39 really isn't much better than that it's better than any trophy you can hold on to because that's just it's a fleeting thing that's not going to go with you 1:13:44 that you can stay with you it stays a part of your DNA now it's in your soul that be that's attached to edwick for 1:13:49 the rest of his life one of the last things he'll think about before he dies is Kurt Douglas sent me aing letter the 1:13:55 day he found out Kurt Douglas died I'm sure he got a tear and goes I I moved that man right like who's to say who's 1:14:00 the movie is better than the other person it's all you know taste so that's the kind of stuff that uh keeps people 1:14:06 in the creative world and the stuff that people do moving it's someone saw you 1:14:11 for what you were doing and they made a comment you moved them man you know you're doing the right thing I do like 1:14:16 how Ed said there too how made him feel to receive that from Michael Douglas he 1:14:22 says now I do that too when when when something moves me or I feel you know 1:14:27 you've created or done something that I enjoy he does a handwritten note that's I like that idea hey thank you thank you 1:14:33 for that great film or thank you for being part of my film and what a great way to continue that I say old school 1:14:39 but it's that Personal Touch of something kind look I always say stuff about Tarantino but it's like when um 1:14:45 Rick do at the end of the scene the girl goes that's the best acting I've ever seen he gets all teed he thinks he's a joke he's been told he's been a joke and 1:14:51 all sudden he does something and people recognize him for who he is and it gets you inside it there's nothing better 1:14:57 than a compliment from a peer or someone you know I know people out there they look for compliments right they want that pad in the back when you do 1:15:03 something and you're not looking for it and you get it that's really where I think it hits home for people you know 1:15:09 when you get that unexpected compliment that you weren't searching for and it really really touches you to your core 1:15:15 all right well that concludes I mean that's it that's that some amazing coverage of defiance I hope people 1:15:21 enjoyed our discussion on defiance and Ed Wick's filmography we're now boy I'm 1:15:26 it's kind of sad to think but we only have one two three four that's it actually only four films left that he 1:15:33 directed to cover that he actually but have no fear he's going to continue this because once it get past that I've been 1:15:39 there you think I'm gonna end this and then you enjoy you enjoy the discussion with people so it's like I don't want to end the opportunity to talk to people I 1:15:46 like to talk to so I'm G to find another angle to keep going with it that's what I've done because we enjoy we enjoy the 1:15:51 discussion we hope people enjoy what we've done together and if they do awesome if not we still have this discussion that we have there's two 1:15:57 films that he did one he did a story for one he wrote and then these a handful that he produced and executive produced 1:16:02 and I think what it will do too is it will gives us a chance to talk about other of course other films other genres 1:16:09 other directors other actors and that's always fun to talk about so and you can also hyp speculate should he have 1:16:14 directed it what would have been like if he had directed it that's the fun of being a cynophile right that's the it's the wha ifs it's the I can't wait to I 1:16:21 can't wait to cover I am Sam I wonder who's going to do that with me I am Sam all right well again Scott let people 1:16:26 know where they uh where they can find you uh you can just go to uh the Church of QT pod that'll get you everything 1:16:31 Church of QT and then go to the last of the action heroes podcast Network my other two shows uh men of action and 1:16:37 dropping Bruce are both on there and they drop once a month two weeks apart from each other so well I appreciate you 1:16:43 being part of this show part of the network we'll talk again about edwick might be I am Sam so stand by for that 1:16:49 beautiful 1:17:00 you 1:17:09 [Music]