Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / California Plans to Cut Emissions By 40% By 2030: Edison CEO

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California Plans to Cut Emissions By 40% By 2030: Edison CEO · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm pim Fox.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for
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  Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store
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  Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg P and L
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  Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot Com. Joining
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  Speaker 1: us now as the president and the chief executive of
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  Speaker 1: Edison International, the twenty billion dollar electric utility based in California,
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  Speaker 1: Pedro Pizzaro, Pedro, thank you very much for being with us.
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  Speaker 1: You've spoken about what the roads in California are going
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  Speaker 1: to look like by twenty thirty. I understand somewhere in
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  Speaker 1: the order of maybe seven million electric vehicles, that includes
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  Speaker 1: automobiles as well as trucks. Where's the electricity going to
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  Speaker 1: come from in order to charge the batteries for those vehicles. Well,
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  Speaker 1: we view this as part of a broader perspective for
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  Speaker 1: how California gets its greenhouse gas reductions by we see
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  Speaker 1: the electricity coming from a resource stack that will be
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  Speaker 1: carbon free, so that means a lot of renewables. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: We think that will require a lot of storage to
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  Speaker 1: be able to balance intermittency of renewables. But the key
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  Speaker 1: thing is that we view that as relying on a
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  Speaker 1: modern grid that's able to connect those resources, those sources
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  Speaker 1: that are cleaned with us, as like transportation and space
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  Speaker 1: and water heating. That will help California achieve its goals
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  Speaker 1: in the lowest possible, lowest possible cost. So can you
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  Speaker 1: give us just a sense of your role in this
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  Speaker 1: goal of reducing emissions in California by by what's your
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  Speaker 1: what's your role? Sure, actually several roles. Starts with having
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  Speaker 1: a strong and modern grid. So you know, our main
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  Speaker 1: business is running our wire system that provides power to
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  Speaker 1: fifteen million residents across fifty thousand square miles. That's one role.
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  Speaker 1: We have a role us a procure of energy. We
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  Speaker 1: we don't make very much of our own energy. We
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  Speaker 1: buy it from the market, and so as we let
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  Speaker 1: out contracts, we expect those contracts to go to an
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  Speaker 1: increasingly clean set of resources. Today we are STACK is
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  Speaker 1: about renewables and carbon free. We see that again doubling
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  Speaker 1: to eight carbon free. We still play a role in
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  Speaker 1: contracts for storage, and we also own some storage ourselves,
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  Speaker 1: and so the deploying storage. Today we have commitments for
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  Speaker 1: around five d megawatts of storage. We believe that the
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  Speaker 1: status a whole will need closer to ten thousand megawatts
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  Speaker 1: of storage. What big problem is that consumers just aren't
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  Speaker 1: buying electric vehicles that quickly, and they still love their SUVs.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like you can't change people's taste. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: well this is happening though, and it's it's uh. I
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  Speaker 1: think we're the early part of the s curve here,
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  Speaker 1: the growth curve. When you look about four or five
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  Speaker 1: years ago, I think in California about one percent of
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  Speaker 1: vehicle new vehicle sales had some sort of plug attached
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  Speaker 1: ship last year was closed to five percent. We have
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  Speaker 1: around three hundred and many thousand electric vehicles in the
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  Speaker 1: state right now. It's early days, but it's early days.
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  Speaker 1: With the market that's growing, we're seeing more charging infrastructure deployed.
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  Speaker 1: That's another one of our roles, you know, reading the
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  Speaker 1: grid for that. And importantly, we see auto manufacturers gearing
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  Speaker 1: up for this more and more announcements of electric vehicles,
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  Speaker 1: not just to serve California. I mean, we're we play
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  Speaker 1: a leading role, but we're only one of a lot
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  Speaker 1: of leading roles out there in China now has the
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  Speaker 1: largest leading role along with the EU. So this is
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  Speaker 1: a global, UH global initiative that's taking place here. And
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  Speaker 1: from a US perspective, you know, I view support for
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  Speaker 1: electric vehicles as being critical to our economy and to
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  Speaker 1: helping us participate in that infrastructure plan. Do you foresee
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  Speaker 1: edited international purchasing residential energy storage companies? UM, We typically
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  Speaker 1: don't comment an m n A, but I'd say our
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  Speaker 1: main focus continues to be on actually investing in that
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  Speaker 1: core grid. So you never say it never about anything,
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  Speaker 1: but it's not our focus right now. Our focus is
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  Speaker 1: been on investing in THEE grad. We have purchased some
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  Speaker 1: storage for our own use tied to our grade as well.
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  Speaker 1: And then outside of the utility, we have Edison Energy
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  Speaker 1: which provides services to large commercial and industrial customers, and
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  Speaker 1: they were helping helping those customers purchasing own storage as well.
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  Speaker 1: I'm wondering, you know, as you talk about California's plan
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  Speaker 1: to reduce emissions by I've struck by President Trump's approach
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  Speaker 1: to reducing emissions and that there actually has been a
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  Speaker 1: pretty significant attempt to roll back emission standards from former
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  Speaker 1: President Obama's era. How does this complicate your goal and
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  Speaker 1: how does it complicate sort of the overarching UH sort
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  Speaker 1: of target reducing emissions. I think the bottom line is
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  Speaker 1: that there is not that much impact that California will feel.
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  Speaker 1: There's some impact, but there's not that much impact in
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  Speaker 1: this sense. UM. The rollback of the Clean Power Plan
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  Speaker 1: at ep A, well, when you look at how California
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  Speaker 1: was going to fulfill, it's part of that. California is
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  Speaker 1: doing that already anyway. It's you know, increasing a target
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  Speaker 1: for renewables, setting the law for the fort greenhouse gas reduction.
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  Speaker 1: None of that is changing in this state, and I
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  Speaker 1: think that's similar in other states that are pursuing their
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  Speaker 1: own greenhouse gas reduction pathways. There are touch points, right
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  Speaker 1: and UH. One touch point is the fact that e
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  Speaker 1: p A has allowed the you know, UH waiver for
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  Speaker 1: California in terms of vehicle emission standards. You've seen you
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  Speaker 1: know commentary over the last week, and the e p
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  Speaker 1: A at the federal level UH talking about a potential
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  Speaker 1: rollback of that or you know, changes to that. UM.
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  Speaker 1: Barry Nichols is the chair of their Resources board, I
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  Speaker 1: think is at the conference also She was quoted, you know,
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  Speaker 1: in the various papers this morning as talking about that
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  Speaker 1: and the fact that California may sue to protect it's
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  Speaker 1: right to have its standard, but also acknowledging that look,
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  Speaker 1: you know, folks will negotiate, they'll talk, and ultimately, I
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  Speaker 1: think you know, we'll get this result in large part
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  Speaker 1: because electric vehicles are such a big part of the
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  Speaker 1: strategies for the automakers, and that's an important infrastructure play
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  Speaker 1: that our economy should not us. You mentioned how you're
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  Speaker 1: going to need what about ten gigawatts of battery storage
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  Speaker 1: by in order to meet all of these needs. Do
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  Speaker 1: you foresee any big changes in battery storage technology by then? Oh? Absolutely, um.
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  Speaker 1: With lithium ion dominating the market today, we've already seen
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  Speaker 1: dramatic cost reductions. I think you know, battery soult costs
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  Speaker 1: went down by about two thirds between Continued improvements are
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  Speaker 1: expected as remote move ahead, but there will be other
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  Speaker 1: chemistries to One of the fun things I get to
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  Speaker 1: do outside of Edison is that I'm on the board
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  Speaker 1: of ARGON National Lab. Argon has been the hub for
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  Speaker 1: de DE Department of Energies research on battery storage, and
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  Speaker 1: so they're pursuing a number of other chemistries there, and
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  Speaker 1: there's a lot of confidence, uh you know, not only there,
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  Speaker 1: but across the market that will see more types of chemistry,
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  Speaker 1: more types of battery that will bring greater capacities, more usability,
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  Speaker 1: lower issues, and ultimately lower costs for concerners. Which companies
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  Speaker 1: are at the forefront of this, because I think everyone
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  Speaker 1: thinks of Elon Musk is being sort of a secret
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  Speaker 1: battery whiz and that that's really where his power is
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  Speaker 1: going to come from. But are there other kind of
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  Speaker 1: people in the industry or companies that really have been
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  Speaker 1: pioneers here. Well, look, there's a lot of focus across
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  Speaker 1: our economy and the worldwide economy, and I don't want
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  Speaker 1: going through a whole litany of names of companies. Was
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  Speaker 1: certainly a purchased Tesla batteries, but we've done work with
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  Speaker 1: a number of other companies, both on the manufacturing site
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  Speaker 1: for the battery sales, as well as folks who are
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  Speaker 1: deploying storage and for example, companies that are contracting with
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  Speaker 1: ind use consumers, aggregating those batteries and then presenting that
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  Speaker 1: as a package to our utility so we can then
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  Speaker 1: procure the use for that. So You're seeing a lot
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  Speaker 1: of focus both in the US, in Asia, in Europe,
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  Speaker 1: across multiple folks investing. So you're not going to answer,
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  Speaker 1: which comes from a very toughful way. Now to endorse
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  Speaker 1: any companies well, good logo, producing comissions by in you know,
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  Speaker 1: fifteen years, twelve years, the todd the clock is ticking.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being with us. Bizarro, President,
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  Speaker 1: chief executive officer of Edison International, which is based in California.
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  Speaker 1: But he is here at the Bloomberg Future of Energy
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  Speaker 1: Global Summit. He has a tall task and many roles
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  Speaker 1: playing with respect to this Californian goal. There's sort of
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  Speaker 1: a philosophical conundrum in investing today. On one hand, investment
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  Speaker 1: manators need to make money for their clients. On the
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  Speaker 1: other hand, there's a growing movement to feel good about
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  Speaker 1: where people are putting their money. Here to talk about
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  Speaker 1: how one major organization is dealing with that is in Finucan,
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  Speaker 1: vice chairman of the Bank of America organization which we
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  Speaker 1: all know. Uh so and thanks so much for being here.
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  Speaker 1: I want to start with that sort of how do
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: you make sure that you are getting good returns and
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  Speaker 1: investing responsibly for the bank while also supporting initiatives that
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  Speaker 1: you think lead to a more sustainable, sustainable future from
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  Speaker 1: an energy perspective, Thanks Lisa. So it's uh, it's evolved
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  Speaker 1: over time. That doesn't just begin on day one. As
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  Speaker 1: you know, a good idea becomes a viable idea when
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  Speaker 1: you can get the returns. So what we've been able
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  Speaker 1: to do is to approach uh, new products, create new
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  Speaker 1: products that are similar to the products that are clients
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  Speaker 1: would have known from the past. So municipal bonds, green bonds,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: a green bond. You can underwrite a green bond, our
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: issue a green bond. The kind of return you're going
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  Speaker 1: to get on it is probably north of what you
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: get on a municipal but not much better. But if
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: that's what you were going to invest in the in
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  Speaker 1: the first place, you can also get the return of
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  Speaker 1: environmental hit that you would not have been able to
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  Speaker 1: get otherwise. So you're talking about reducing greenhouse gas emissions,
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  Speaker 1: energy effici and see water storage or whatever. Likewise, we've
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  Speaker 1: been able to do the same thing with tax equity,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: which actually came out of some of the work we
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: did early on years ago with community development. But applying
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: tax equity where you can UM through tax credits and
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  Speaker 1: investments make a better return than say the municipals and
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: so on and so on. So UM we've seen more
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  Speaker 1: recently a UM interest in UH the private capital markets,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and that's that's where, of course you're gonna make bigger money.
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  Speaker 1: So when private equity gets involved and they are focused
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  Speaker 1: on the sustainable development goals and then they're looking to
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: get their kinds of returns, that usually takes different tranches
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: of UH financing. It's not just one thing, but on
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  Speaker 1: a blended basis, you can get good return, you can
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  Speaker 1: de risk, and you can do some good. Just to
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: mention that your native of Newton UM, you know UH
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio Home is one of those six one Boston
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Report and thirty Metro West and the South Shore. So
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I want to give you the opportunity to maybe draw
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: some connections between the demand for technology of the future
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Boston in the Boston area known for biotechnology that no
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: one really knew was going to exist in the future,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: but that public private partnership and the money that came
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: from the private sector is something that helped build it
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: into a world class industry. Do you think that this
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: is what's happening now with these commitments to sustainable and
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: renewable energy. I do I think this is an evolution.
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  Speaker 1: It seems to happen in many industries. I mean that
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  Speaker 1: you could say the same of tech in Silicon Valley,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you could say it a biotech in in the Boston area.
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  Speaker 1: You could say it more generally. In terms of UM
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  Speaker 1: environmental efforts, you have to have the early money. That's
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: kind of UM first loss money, if you will, and
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and that the willingness to dig in. So in the
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: early days, much of what we were doing environmentally was philanthropic,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: but there was clearly a business there. I mean, a
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: very practical business is energy efficiency in the real estate space.
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  Speaker 1: What what developer doesn't want to be able to have, uh,
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  Speaker 1: spend less money on energy use. But if you can
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: think about that upfront rather than doing it on a
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: retroactive basis, is going to help. So it's you know,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: first you walk, then you run, and then you start
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: making money. I'm wondering, you know, when you were talking
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: about the tax credits being somehow embedded into some of
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: these financial instruments to get people into sustainable investing, how
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: much UH does the lack of interest by the current
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: presidential administration kind of impact sort of the sort of
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: investing landscape here, because there has been a pullback from
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: underwriting sort of mason efforts to get the grid to
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: be more sustainable. Well, the pullback is actually in the
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  Speaker 1: tax reform, so UM, I think we can work our
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: way through that. I think we've gotten sophisticated enough about that.
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  Speaker 1: On the other hand, the business community hasn't pulled back
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  Speaker 1: at all. We haven't and I can't think of any
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  Speaker 1: big company that committed in two thousand and fifty, in
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  Speaker 1: December of two thousand and fifteen to the COP twenty
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  Speaker 1: one that's actually pulled back. Because for us, we see business.
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  Speaker 1: We also have UM an employee base that expects us
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: to do that, and frankly, we have an investor base
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  Speaker 1: that expects us to do that. I can't tell you
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  Speaker 1: how many conversations we have. And I have these conversations.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I meet with about fifty institutional investors a year and uh,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: three years ago, no one asked about E s G
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and now everybody does. And and when I say E
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: s G, they're mostly focused on E. So how do
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: you make sure that you're measuring the E accurately, because
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: when you talk about green bonds, I know that some
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: people have complained that there are a lot of arbitrary
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: standards for what counts as green. So how do you
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: how do you evaluate that and how do you judge
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: what's getting less and less arbitrary begin there. Uh, you
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: need to have results, so you need to reduce something,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: so you need to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions or
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: improve your water storage, so you have to have definable outcomes.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: The um issue with green bonds is it takes a
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: little more to do because you have to calibrate all
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: of that, you have to have a report at the
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: end of it. So I think that's really the complaint,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: not so much that it's not definable, but that it
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: takes a little work to do to do the work.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Um and I would say so going back to the government,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: uh uh, regardless of what this administration is is saying,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the reality is is that we're not living administration to administration.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: We're trying to look at this in the long term.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: We're talking about this to the end of this century
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: and how much money is needed, and we're seeing opportunity.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, we committed a hundred and twenty billion dollars
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and thirteen. We thought that we would
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: make that goal in two thousand and five, and five
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: years in we're well, we're beyond halfway mark and and
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: with momentum, so the first few year was much slower
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: than this past year. This past year we did just
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: like I think, six billion dollars in UM green bonds alone,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: so underwriting them, underwriting them and with the number one
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: underwriter of green bonds, number one on UM tax equity
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: UM financial firm. And we're very focused on this, I
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: mean energy efficiencies probably first, to my surprise, wind is
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: next than solar. So catalytic finance initiative part of this.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Just give us the low down on on what it
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: is and what you look for the future. Yeah, I
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: think we have to come up with a better name
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: for that. That's sort of a mouthful, but we have it.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: We're gonna have a contest after right, Okay, But what
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: it is is UM. When there are projects that are
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: harder to finance by one company or one one client
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: or one bank, it is a way of getting other
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: financial institutions involved. So we made a billion dollar commitment
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: rather whether to d risk or invest wouldn't either way. Uh.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: And we've got seven other financial firms of different types
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: and also nonprofits, and together various tranches of financing have
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: been able to do a wind farm in the North Sea,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: solar panels homes in Spain, and conservation land in Africa.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Thinking is a vice chair of
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Bank of America. Nuclear Fusion. We're going to be focusing
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: on this now. We're not gonna be talking about the sun.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking about how perhaps we can create uh,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: fossil fuel free energy in a cheap, efficient way here
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: on Earth. Joining us now, Chris Maori, chief executive officer
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of General Fusion, which is based in Vancouver, but is
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: joining us here at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance Future
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: of Energy Global Summit. Chris, Before we get into the
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: nitty gritty of the financing and the potential, what is
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: nuclear fusion? At least it's great to be here this morning. UH.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Fusion is the opposite of nuclear power. In nuclear power,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: you think about splitting heavy atoms like uranium. Fusion is
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: all about putting together the lightest atoms. And for us,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: we put together to hydrogen atoms and make helium and
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that is an incredibly powerful reaction. It's the most powerful
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: reaction that we know of, and it's also incredibly clean.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: The fuel for fusion, for our version of fusion, comes
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: from water. It comes from the hydrogen out of water.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: So there's basically an unlimited supply of this fuel that's
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: available to everybody everywhere. If if Lisa were to go
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to UH British Columbia to Vancouver and you were to
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: show her your plan sima injector, can you describe what
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: would it look like and what does it do? So plasma,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: let me start by just saying that that plasma. You
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: can think of plasma as lightning. When when you look
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: up in the sky during a thunderstorm you see a
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: flash of light, that light is actually plasma. It is
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: electricity UH that has gone through the air in the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: atmosphere and heated that up so much that it stripped
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: all the electrons off the protons of those atoms and
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: made it glow. And that is that's really what plasma is.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: And when you look at the sun, that's what you
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: see that the sun is a burning ball of high
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: temperature plasma. And so our plasma injector, which is is
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: like the fuel injector of a diesel engine. Uh, it
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: basically creates the starting point for fusion process. It creates
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: this plasma. So it's a it's a machine that's uh
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: six or seven feet in diameter, about fifteen feet long,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: where we put an incredible amount of electricity through just
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: us a very very little bit of hydrogen gas a
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: couple of grams and heat that up to about five
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: million degrees and that's kind of the starting point of
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: view will to creating fusion here on Earth. Okay, So
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to heat something up to five million degrees sounds like
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: it takes a bit of energy itself. How do you
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: how do you source that energy to create this energy? Well,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: in the fusion plant, you have recirculating energy, right, So, uh,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the good news about fusion, it just makes an incredible
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: When the fusion reaction happens, it makes an incredible amount
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: of energy, and so you recirculate some of that back
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to start the next reaction. Again. Our machine is really
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: analogous to a diesel engine. It's a pulse process that
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: in the power plant will happen once a second. So
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: basically you'll create a plasma injected into our machine and
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: compress it actually pretty much just the way a diesel
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: engine works too. You reach fusion conditions, which is when
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: you heat up this plasma to over fifty million degrees
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: and at that pressure and temperature, the helium, the hydrogen
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: atoms actually burn and fuse together into helium and release
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: an unbelievable amount of energy. And uh so you just
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: recirculate some of that to create new new plasma, but
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of left over to make clean electricity. Point
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: you're looking perhaps to build an even bigger plasma injector. Correct, Well,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: what we're doing a plasma injector again going back to
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: my analogy of a diesel engine, and plasma injector is
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: just one part of the overall engine. And so what
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: General Fusion has done for the last fifteen years is
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: really develop all the systems of our fusion engine, if
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you will. And what we're getting ready to do now,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: which is really exciting, is to really build a demonstration
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: fusion plant, okay, and the purpose of this is to
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: actually prove that we have the capability to make electricity
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: out of fusion energy. It's not going to be a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: functioning power plant in the sense of putting megawatts on
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the grid because actually the back end of our power
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: plant is something that's completely conventional. We don't need to
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: prove that. We're really kind of proving out on an
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: integrated basis the fusion island, which is that the set
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: of equipment that makes this plasma, compresses it, burns it,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: and turns it into electricity. That's the goal, and this
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: will be done at scale. So, uh, Jeff Bezos, the
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: founder of Amazon is an investor, is backing general fusion.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Can you walk us through what has to happen for
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: this to be adopted on some kind of mass scale
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: and also how does it compare and cost to other
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: types of energy generators. So one of the exciting things
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: about fusion, at least I can certainly speak to General Fusion,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: is that when you evaluate the projected cost of electricity,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: it's extremely competitive, uh, competitive with the future forecast of
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: wind and solar. And of course it's available twenty seven.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: You know what we talked about it as on demand
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: or flexible energy, right, and so whereas renewable, you need
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: to complement it with something, whether it's energy storage or
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: some form of flexible on demand energy. UM in this case,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: it's something that in itself is very economically competitive and
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: that that's a key piece of this thing. So for us,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: we are at the last stage of commercialization, so building
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: this demonstration plant. When it's up and running in the
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: next several years um, and it works the way we
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: hope it works, we'll be ready for commercial deploy at
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the next step will be a commercial reference plant that
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: will actually put clean electrons on the grid. Thank you
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: very much for joining us and sharing this a new
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: technology with us. Chris Malory is the chief executive of
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: a General Fusion talking about the private sector bet on
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: using fusion technology to create electrics. Much appreciative this time
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: to take a look at small and MidCap shares, and
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: of course Dave Wilson Bluebirk, Sex editor, columnist and blogger
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: at M Live go On at the Bluebird joins us.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Now risk on in small caps give us the details please,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Well it sure looks that way, Lisa. I mean you
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: see the Russell two thousand at the moment higher by
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: one point seven percent, basically keeping pace with the S
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: and P five hundred, which is up. I don't know
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: about one at the moment. The Russell's biggest game by
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: far belongs to Veraphone Systems, whose ticker is pay p
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: a Y. The provider of credit card readers is up
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: fifty two after accepting a buyout offer from a group
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: led by private equity firm Francisco Partners that deals value
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: at three point four billion dollars will assume debt. Spectrum
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Pharmaceuticals sp p I is gained twenty t five. The
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: drug developer gave a positive update on research into a
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: proposed lung cancer treatment, and a keen group took her
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: f r a C has gained nine and a half percent.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: The provider of fracking services was raised to the equivalent
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: by from holding RBC Capital Markets. The Russell steepest drop
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: belongs to v t V Therapeutics took her v t VT.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: The drug developer has plunged seventy three and a half
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: percent after it proposed Alzheimer's medicine failed in the final
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: stage study and selected biosciences to her s c LB
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: has fallen about eleven and a half percent. The company
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: released mid stage data on the treatment for gout, and
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: analysts express concerned about the results on a conference call.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Dave Wilson Bloomberg Stocks comm is.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Send David email at d Wilson at Bloomberg dot net
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: and sign up for his daily free email newsletter Sanctions
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: against Russia. They have at least taken their toll on.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: One proposed deal is having to do with Glencore, the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: world's largest commodities trader, and here to tell us more.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: As Tom Wilson are mining and commodities reporter for Bloomberg News,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: he joins us from London. Tom tell people exactly what
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: was proposed between Glencore and an aluminum company that they
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: were going to have a share swap with, but that
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: doesn't look to be happening anytime soon exactly. So glen Call,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: the world's biggest commodity company, has a long history with
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: like Derri Pasca, the sanctioned billionaire, and with one of
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: his companies, in particular Russell, So it hold an eight
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: point seven five percent steak in that business that it's
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: had sent about two thousand and seven. Now, Derri Pasca
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: back in the autumn, he decided he wanted to list
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: a holding company called M Plus in London, and in
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: order to do that, he approached his good friend Ivan
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Glazeberger glenc call and Outer Golenko would step into the
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: cornerstone investor by swapping its steak in Russell for a
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: steak in the newly created listed entity n Plus. UM
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: glen Core agreed that deal was going to happen by
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: the end of April, and now, following the sanctions against Dera, Pasco,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Russell and N Plus last week, Glencre confirmed this morning
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: UM that that is suspended. You know, one thing that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: I'm struck by, Tom, is that there's been a broad
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: based withdrawal from frankly everything having to do with Russia,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: but Russel has been singularly punished since it's oligarch head
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: was among those sanctions, and I'm wondering, you know, can
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: you talk about the effect of the sanctions on the
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: supply chain of aluminum, for example, which is the specialty
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: of Russel, or some of the other commodities that Russia
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: supplies to Europe and the rest of the world. The
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: main focus here at the moment really is on on
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: and on aluminum or aluminiums as we call it in London.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Russia is the world biggest producer of aluminium outside of China,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: so I had a huge market share and the way
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: in which these sanctions work. They're basically designed to to
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: be cut roust out off from the US financial system,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: but the implications are far more reaching, and really it
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: means that you can no longer as a US business,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: and ultimately probably is now as a European business, as
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: as the budiness will ultimately follow the direction of U
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: S sanctions. You can no longer buy any aluminium from
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: RUTA whatsoever. So that's the scene that's really sent the
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: aluminium market into a bit of a spin. Aluminium seen
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: the biggest two day gain in more than six years.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: UM Russell lost half of its value on Monday and
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: was down another nine percent in trading today in Hong Kong.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: On the flip side, UM, anybody that doesn't have Russian
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Russian aluminium, so the Chinese aluminium producers are up. Equally
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: anybody with exposure to US aliminium producers, particularly following Trump's
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: new tarifts on steel and aluminium. If you already have
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: aluminium inside the US, people are willing to pay the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: tree them for it. M The rest of the Russian
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: economy is dominated by fast or fuel, particularly oil and
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: natural gas. What effect I've sanctions had on those businesses,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So no or no immediate lasting sanctions. I mean, we've
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: seen we've seen the ruble slipping value against almost every
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: other currency in the last eight hours, and certainly in
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: London speaking to invest here, there is a lot of
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: kind of wider alarm and contagious effects at the moment.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: So people are concerned, um that about almost they're doing
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: any Russian business, because if they're not on the tanking
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: list today, what's to say they might not appear on
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: that list in due course. I think some of some
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: of that concern will probably ease off in the next
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: few days, but it is certainly becoming a more and
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: more whisky jurisdiction to do business with the kind of
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: specter of an ever expanding U S sanctioned program in
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the background. So, Tom, when you talk to experts in
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: the aluminium how is that fields, I'm wondering, is there
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: any sense that there's some kind of inside it's surprised
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: for aluminum prices if say, the sanctions are lifted, or
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: as people sort of pass the details and get the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: sense that this is more necessarily break the supply chains
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: that much. I think I think we have to expect
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: some of that price really to come off in the
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: next few weeks. But I mean, no one is really
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: talking about these sanctions being lifted anytime soon. Um, so
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: be the potential consequences that we need to be aware
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: of is in the past, when Russian businessmen have been
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: sanctioned by by the U S or other foreign regimes,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: the Russian government has stepped in to provide some solutions
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: or support. So I would guess at the Kremlin will
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: be thinking now about creative solutions that it can potentially
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: offer to Russo to say part of that business, you know,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: can they can they repackage some of the aluminium production
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: units under a different entity? Is there are ways to
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: circumvent sanctions there? But I also think that if you
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: look at the breadth of the sanctions effort against Aripaska,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: eight of his businesses were targeted to Yeah, this isn't
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: simply a warning to him. This is very much a
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: blocking action. They are saying to their no, your your
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: businesses are no longer welcoming to you, no longer able
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: to trade. Tem Wilson, thank you so much, Minding and
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Commodities reporter for Bloomberg News. Unfortunately, we're going to have
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: to leave it there. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: P and L podcast. You can subscribe and listen to
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast platform you prefer.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: I'm pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: You can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio