Latest / Global Leadership Collaborative / #07: Build Third Spaces: David Cárdenas, Americas Area Director, Wycliffe Global Alliance
Transcript
- Woody McLendon: Hi, and welcome to the Global Leadership Collaborative Podcast. My name is Woody McLendon, and I'm your host. The goal of this podcast is to encourage current and future leaders in the Bible translation movement around the world. And today I'm thrilled to welcome a dear friend and gifted leader, David Cárdenas, the Americas Area Director for the Wycliffe Global Alliance, is connecting to us from his home in Bogotá, Colombia. David, hi, and thank you for joining today. David: Thank you, Woody. Greetings from Bogotá. Thank you so much for this invitation to your podcast. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. I'm so thrilled that you can join. And as we have shared together in preparation, I've just been blessed to to hear your story. So I'm so thrilled to be able to have this conversation that we can share this with others. One of the things that you shared with me was a season in your ministry leadership with another ministry that was a crisis season. It really put to test some of the values and principles around which you felt called to lead. I was wondering if as we jump in and begin, if you would take a moment to sh to to go back to that situation, share the story, and then what did you learn through the process? David: Thank you, Woody. This story happened nine years ago when I was serving as the president of COMIBAM, which is the Ibero-American Mission Cooperation. So that year we held the fourth Ibero-American Missionary Congress under the topic of Jesus and Mission. So it it is a very significant event for the mission movement in our region, and we had about 1,800 participants from more than 50 countries, and and this congress took place after 10 years. The the previous Congress was in 2006 in Spain, so there was a lot of expectation for this event. So I was the co-director because I was the president, and I worked closely with Decio; he was the executive director. But and both together we faced several challenges through the process of organizing this Congress. And one of the biggest challenges had to do with the with the venue. So a few weeks before the Congress, the convention center we had planned for to use for the conference suffered a fire. So suddenly we have to find another place, renegotiate everything, and adjust many of the expectations we had built around the event. So it was a crisis for us, a crisis for the board, and many questions, okay, what to do now? People paid for coming to Bogotá. People bought flights we cannot cancel. So we we we started practicing discernment, seeking the Lord, praying together as a board, and seeing how God could lead us in in the process. So so we started a process of renegotiating, and we were able to get a better price, almost a half that we had originally expected to to pay for to pay for the other venue. And the the the that change turned out out to be a tremendous blessing for COMIBAM because finally we had a positive balance. And and I I still think what would have what would we have done if we didn't have the fire? We had to pay large amount of money, and I don't know how we would have managed it. So for me the the most important lesson is not about financial. It's about how we practice leadership and discernment. So this is to say that as a leader, we need to learn how to listen. We need to listen to different voices, to our teams, to our boards, and above all, to God. So in this situation, we practiced what I would call collective wisdom. Because together with the board and the leadership team, we brought our concerns, anxieties, tensions before the Lord, and we listened to one another, we prayed together, and we trusted that that God would open a wide a way to move forward, and He did. So this is to say, a crisis is an opportunity to see the Lord working for us. It's an opportunity to work in a different way and to see how God can surprise us with different solutions. Woody McLendon: Thank you. That must have been a a quite a challenging situation though, because I'm sure there was a lot of tension and anxiety and a lot of pressure. So how did you all manage that tension and actually calm your spirits to to take time to listen? David: Yeah, when you are in in the midst of a crisis is not easy because you have a lot of people asking their questions, asking for solutions, but in the process, okay, to practice silence, to pray together, to talk with other leaders, and practice collective wisdom. So in that process we listen to the Lord, we we can get the solutions, and we can identify the action steps. So trust the Lord, and trust that He will make a way for for us. Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. So I'm curious, there's some key lessons that I hear that you have taken from that into your leadership today. What would you How would you share what those key lessons are from that that season? David: Yeah, I I think what one of the key lessons is to understand that we are not leading alone. We are leading as a body. You need to make a space for the voices to be heard. This is what we call polyphony, in other Practice biblical discernment. So how how what the Bible says and how the lock the Lord speaks to us, and how we listen to the Lord. Building a third space where all the perspectives and voices are welcome, and in that process of the third space, find the solutions that one organization or one collaboration team needs for to move forward. So from that experience I still continue practicing a polyphony, third space, listening each other, practicing spiritual and biblical discernment. Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. I want to dive into those concepts a little bit further in our conversation, but before we go there, I'd actually like to to roll back and begin back at the beginning. So tell me a little bit about your family and where you were born and grew up. David: I I I was born in Bogotá. My my father and my mother, they belong to other regions in Colombia. I'm married to Marlene; she's from El Salvador, so we met nine years ago, and we got married about seven years ago. We have two kids. One is Eloisa; she's six years old, and Elias, he's three years old. Woody McLendon: Well, that's wonderful. Now Tell me a bit about your growing up in Bogotá. David: Yeah, I was born in in into an evangelical Christian family. I am a second generation of Christians. From an early age, I grew up with a strong conviction about my faith in Christ. And my father was very influential about it because he, for me, he he was my best discipler, every morning, praying together, reading the Bible, reading a theology book when I was five years, six years old. So from the beginning he was my example, the person that I wanted to follow. He was a military, but at the same time he he was a very very good servant in the church. So the how to serve God, I can take the my father's example. So I grew up in a in a family in Bogotá, to one brother, one sister, normal life, going to school, going to church, having friends in my neighborhood, good heart for for for God. Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. And what a wonderful testimony about your father's mentoring and influence. I'm curious, you grew up in a very strong faith-focused family, Christ-centered family. When did you feel called to make a personal decision to follow Jesus? And how did that unfold? David: Yeah, I remember when I was nine years old in the church. And the church was organized an evangelistic campaign. So we went as a family to join the the the service, and at the end of the service after the preaching, the preacher said, hey, who who wants to come to receive Jesus Christ? So I felt in my heart it it is my time. Of course I wa I grew up in a Christian family, but I needed to make my personal decision for Christ. So just I went to the front; I was the youngest of that group. And from that moment I remember I made my personal decision for for Christ. Woody McLendon: Well, praise God for that. And and I'm thrilled and the fruit of that is really rich and and deep and what a wonderful thing. So from that it sounded like you were connected into life of the church. How did your sense of calling to service and ministry unfold? Tell me a little bit about that. David: my first sensed God's calling me to ministry came when I was in the Bible seminary. We had a mission class, and we had it it this class was very influential to me. And from that moment when I was receiving the testimonies, the sessions, I said I want to go as a missionary. At that moment, I was studying the Bible seminary in the evenings; in the mornings, I was at the university doing mechanical engineering studies. So I said, I want to finish everything now. I want to go to Equatorial Guinea tomorrow. So I had a lot of passion, but I understood that it was not the right time to go. I was very young so I needed to develop more knowledge and skills, and so I have to to bring my expectations, my heart to the Lord and just wait for the right moment. Woody McLendon: Was that hard for you? David: Yes, it was very frustrating because I want to leave the university, Bible seminary, go as a missionary tomorrow to Africa, and give all of me to serve people in in that area. Woody McLendon: So obviously there were people speaking into your life with patience and and then how did those steps unfold? Did you actually get to go overseas to Africa, or how did God direct your steps from there? David: Well, I think Africa was the first calling to me. And this is because in 1999, when I finished university, I went to for a mission training here in Colombia. And the idea is after that training I could go to Equatorial Guinea as a missionary, a full time missionary supported by the church. But I don't know how God make He is doing things for us, but He moved the pieces not to go to Equatorial Guinea, but to serve as a leader in the church, to raise new leaders and raise new missionaries that still are serving the Lord overseas and in Colombia. So lesson is you don't know. God is the master, and He can move pieces, but He attracts you through something, and Africa was the place in the world to attract my heart, to attract my attention for global mission. Woody McLendon: So tell me about the journey to the church ministry. That I know that's been a significant part of your life, and and you still are actively a pastor of your church. So explain that bit in and how that works David: Yeah, I I've been pastor, mission pastor for the last 25 years. It has been a wonderful journey. I started as a volunteer because we didn't have a mission department. So I was delegated from the board to start from zero, the mission department of my church, we see which is a large church in Bogotá. And yeah, from that moment I started calling people, building a team, designing a mission process for the church. From that moment, yeah, gaining experience, expertise, receiving pastoral training, receiving the title of pastor after some denomination requirements. And yeah, just serving, serving the church, serving people, serving the community, serving the mission movement in in my country, where COMIBAM is one of the pieces in in in this context. So yeah, just having a half heart for God, and just let the Lord guide your life and how He he opens door for us. Woody McLendon: Who was really s significantly influential from the church to help prepare and equip you and and in a sense release you to this larger ministry? Cause you're still a pastor of the church, but your ministry is now regional and in fact global. So how who who did God raise up and along the way to encourage and inspire you and support you in this in this journey? David: This person is Silvio Baraona, the senior pastor of my church. He is the best person I have ever known as a leader. I know him since I was a child, and he has been a wise mentor, a developer of leaders, and someone who gave me the opportunities to serve in missions and always supports me. Now he's not a senior pastor, but we continue to be friends, but I la I have a lot of gratitude for him and the way, as he discerned and he could see in me the skills, the global calling and give the opportunity opportunity to to serve in other spaces, not just the church, but other collaboration networks, opportunities for global meetings. And he has a saying. He says, I don't want to cut your wings. I want that you fly. Cut. Yes. Woody McLendon: Cut cut. David: To cut my wings, but I want that you fly. You fly. And that was very encouraging encouraging to me. And of course, very rooted in my church, but serving in the different ways as the Lord is inviting. Woody McLendon: That's what a wonderful story. And I love that image of a leader. And what an what a godly example of leadership in Christ that his goal was to equip you to fly and David: Yes. Woody McLendon: and not and not stand back and try to restrict you, but to really equip you and support you and stay with you. I mean, I think it's wonderful that the church has stayed with you and you've been an active part of the congregation. So How then did the steps to COMIBAM unfold? You mentioned a little bit about it. I'd appreciate if you'd explain that a bit more, but how did the Lord open the doors for you to join with and serve and eventually lead in COMIBAM? David: Yeah. I first got involved with COMIBAM through COMIBAM Colombia. This is the Colombian chapter. And I served as a secretary of the board, and that gave me the opportunity to learn from people like Victor Ibagón, Jesús Londoño, Luis Alberto Calderón, and other Colombian and international missionaries. So at that time I was the youngest person on the board. And their passion for mission and their testimony were a great inspiration to me and helped shape my own journey in missions leadership. Woody McLendon: Wow, that's great. So so you served locally. When did you become the the overall director at the international level? And how did that how did you discern that journey? David: Yeah, i i my role was president. President we have a president and executive director. So Woody McLendon: A president, okay. President, yeah. Okay. David: I I was the president in 2015 for a six year period. Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. And how did God lead you to that point? Because, you know, there's one thing to be committed to serving, and there's another, I observe, sense of gifting and calling to serve in a leadership role in ministry context. So I'm curious about how you began to sense God was leading you to take on leadership responsibilities in and serve in a way beyond just your personal contribution. David: Yeah. Well for us in Latin America, the word COMIBAM means a lot because it it is an important point of reference in missions. It is a collaboration network. So as a le mission leader, when I was very young, I say, that's COMIBAM. It's amazing. Maybe someday I could serve. It it's it it is it is something very special for us. But I never imagined that I could be in the international board. I never did anything to seek that position, just nothing. But after serving in the National COMIBAM Network, I was invited to serve in the region as a Andean Region coordinator and also a representative to the International Board. I served that position for six years. And in by 2015 that there was a change of leadership in the board, so I was recommended to the General Assembly to people to vote for for me and the International Assembly voted for me and I was elected as a president for a three years period and then I was renewed for other three years period. So I had the opportunity to serve the communities, to serve the movement, bring the knowledge from the church, from the Wycliffe Global Alliance to serve the mission community. Woody McLendon: Wonderful and thank you for that service. That's that that's an incredible testimony, and I really appreciate it. You've already you've touched briefly on the Wycliffe Global Alliance. So tell me, when did you first learn about the ministry of Bible translation? David: Yeah, it was in 2002 when I was starting my role as a mission director in my church. I was invited to take a Bible translation training in Bogotá held by SIL in collaboration with COMIBAM Colombia so I yeah I had the opportunity to study for a two years program in Bible translation with different classes, and my heart was very passionate about the Word of God, the testimony, the teachings from Bible translators in Colombia. So I was very deeply engaged with the Word of God, Bible translation. I said someday I would serve in Bible translation, but I didn't know when, how, where, but it came later. So that training was very powerful and very influential to me. Woody McLendon: So how did it come? It came later, but when and how did it come and who did God use to help you in that next step in your journey? David: Yes, because of my positions in COMIBAM. COMIBAM and Wycliffe and SIL in the Americas are very good partners. So for for international meetings, Wycliffe or SIL invited a representative from COMIBAM. So in different opportunities, I was part of those meetings, so my heart was continuously engaged and providing wisdom, providing direction, providing ideas about how to best help the Bible translation movement to be engaged with the mission movement and the Church. But in 2013 I was invited by with Nydia Schmidt, the at that time the new area director. She was looking for a person from the mission movement to be part of the team, to bring the knowledge, the expertise, the connections, the ideas, the background from the mission movement in Latin America. So I was invited because I was praying for that before. I was praying, Lord, use my life. You know me, you know my heart, you know my what I have in my heart about your work. But I didn't touch a door. So just the Lord opened the door. And and I'm very grateful for Nydia for her discernment, for her heart, and her leadership as a woman to make space for me and to help me to grow in the Bible translation movement and give me opportunities to lead, to influence, and to bless what God is doing in our region. Woody McLendon: Wow, that's a wonderful story. Thank you for sharing. And I I Nydia, I know, is a good friend, and she's a very gifted leader, so praise God for that. So I'm curious, as you were heavily connected in the mission movement and the church, and you began to interact more with the work of Bible translation, what were some of your initial observations, things that you either appreciated or you're like, Oh! that's a challenge. David: Of course I see a huge change. What was the Bible translation movement 13 or 14 years ago in comparison to what the Bible translation movement is today? What kind of leadership we had at that time and what kind of leadership we need today? So at that time, the mission movement, we we were not talking about polycentrism, we were not talking about third space, we didn't talk about collaborative leadership, just we were leading according to what we had at that era. So it's vision, go ahead, goals. This is not bad, but what I started to see in the mission movement is changes about bringing the word polycentrism, recognizing the power issues, recognizing that the mission is global, it is not just from North to South. And that the South has something to give to the world. And that we have leaders in the South that we can give something. So making spaces for leaders to meet from get each other to in exchange ideas, to build together. So I saw that philosophy in the Alliance and COMIBAM, the need of making new spaces for collaboration, new spaces to lead in mission, not just from the past to the present with the same ways of working, or from North to South but recognizing that the church is global, that the mission is global, and that we from different areas of the world we have something to give. And in that process I have seen changes in the movement. Now I could say leading in the global mission is more intergenerational, is more intercultural, is more in the third space, is more in collaboration, is more more polycentric or multilocal, is more polyphonic. Woody McLendon: Thank you. Well, I want to dive into those details a bit more, but I understood, you know, a lot of this work obviously was you were influenced in your collaborative roles, but you also worked on an advanced degree and did some some theological study that guided how you're focusing your ministry today. So explain that a bit because I want to lean in more to the nature of of how you see the work unfolding today. David: Thank you, thank you, Woody. I had the opportunity to study a Doctor in Ministry program in the New York Theological Seminary after finishing my Master's degree. And one of my hearts is okay, how I can focus my dissertation for something that could be a blessing for the movement. So I had the opportunity to received the support from Seed Company to finish my last track in my study process because this is it was a little expensive. Just I started by faith as a Latin American. We just go, and let's see how Woody McLendon: Amen. David: God opened doors. So so for the last for the last year, so I received the the support from Seed Company, and I'm very grateful for the leadership program they have. So I received the funds for yeah to pay the scholarship, the the final stage of my studies, and with the commitment of bringing a gift to the Bible translation movement. So as I was serving in the Alliance, we were involved in different conversations. Okay, what need the Bible translation movement at in this area? So from Kirk Franklin, we started to listen about polycentrism, third space, friendship and mission, collaboration, and so those ideas were very important to me and see, okay, why why why I don't think in something particular, because in a doctorate ministry program you need to focus on something specific. So I took the case study of Colombia to see okay what Colombia needs to see something different in Bible translation. So, how we can bring the indigenous church, bring the national church, and bring the mission and Bible translation organizations to build together a community model to experience something different about collaboration, to accomplish the task of Bible translation. So that was the beginning that I will tell you later about mesas. But the DMin research was important to understand much better the missiological and biblical foundations about collaboration and shared spaces in the Bible because the Bible has a lot about mesas, about round tables, a lot about collaboration, a lot about community. So so that that that that was the beginning for what I understand much better today. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. I I And we'll get more into the to the details of of what you're working on today and how that initial vision has really unfolded to a fruitful ministry across the Americas. And I've had privilege to participate in various contexts and observe. So I I want to shift a little bit to your personal life. For many years of your ministry journey, you were single, and David: Yes. Woody McLendon: that's probably not too common today, certainly single men in missions, not so much. So how did God gift you for that season? And yeah, how was that for you? David: Okay, it's an interesting question, Woody. I believe both singleness and marriage are blessings from God. The Bible gives us wonderful examples of single people who fulfill unique purposes in God's plan. And marriage is also a great blessing. So as a single man, I had the opportunity to invest more time, energy in serving, traveling, and studying. And I I can honestly say, Woody, that I invested my singleness to be to the fullest. So perhaps I would not have been able to do all those things in the same way if I had been married. So I believe the important thing is to serve God faithfully in whatever season of life we are in. So if you are single, just bring what you have for the Lord. If you are married, just bring what you have for the Lord. It's different, of course, but you can if you are still single and willing to be married at some point, just enjoy this time. Because when you are you are married, you will continue serve the Lord in different ways, but each season is particular. Woody McLendon: Thank you. I appreciate that. And yes, I think that is a wonderful encouragement that God uses single and married alike in special ways and with wonderful gifts and abilities. So just curious, you you mentioned meeting your wife. Tell me how the Lord opened that door and how how you connected to become spouses and then journey on together in ministry as a married couple. David: Yeah, we we met in 2018. Marlene, she was the director for Operation Mobilization in El Salvador. And when the Logos ship came to Colombia in 2018, she was invited to meet the ship and learn how to lead the ship visit to El Salvador. So in that context, because I was serving to COMIBAM when I was invited to welcome the ship, and in some meetings, at that time the Latin America OM Director, a good friend of us, introduces us many times. And after some some meetings, we say, okay, why he is so intentional? Okay, why why don't we share some friendship and the process started and then we start that relation that later we yeah it was a marriage. So it was the context. We were not seeking, but just the Lord created the opportunities to introduce us each other and start a relation. Woody McLendon: So how have you both discerned the changes needed serving in ministry and and yet also stewarding your family and now with your your young children? David: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Woody McLendon: Those are important decisions. How did you guys work on that together? David: Yeah. One of the biggest challenges, Woody, has been learning to keep a healthy balance between family and ministry. Because she and me, we yeah, our background is ministry. We understood that ministry is is is not important is than family. So serving the Lord is is our passion, it's our heart. But family is also ministry. So we have we have had to learn to say no to many invitations, international meetings sometimes. And limit, for example, in my case, limit my travel to about once a month, because I recognize family is important. And we have made a conscious decision to make our family our first ministry. Ministry is important, but we believe our first responsibility is to love, care for, and be present with our with our family, especially kids in this stage. Woody McLendon: Has that been a difficult challenge for you in that decision making? I mean, I'm sure with the work unfolding as well as is, and she's active in ministry that there are times when you might feel called or feel strongly about something. How how have you handled I mean, is yeah, how has that been for you as a couple? David: Yeah, I I think the the best way is dialogue. Dialogue. Bring our expectations to the table. Expectations, questions, even the difficult questions and assumptions. Bring all those things and practice wisdom. The best place for us is our round table in our house with a cup of coffee. Having the time to discuss and find together ways to solve issues, making decisions. I don't make decisions by myself. I like to share with Marlene and from that shared space make the best decisions about our lives, family, and ministry. Woody McLendon: So it sounds like you're taking this principle of shared discernment from ministry to your family. Praise God. What David: Totally. Totally. I think th marriage is like a third space because one me as a husband I bring my culture. She brings her culture, and we build a shared culture, a new culture with the kingdom values. Woody McLendon: Thank you. Okay, so let's let's unpack this third space and the mesas now. In your role as the Alliance Americas Director, you've been a key influential leader in helping nurture these third spaces. And so explain the concept for those who it's not familiar to, and then how did these steps unfold and what are you seeing God do David: Okay, in Spanish we use the word mesa. This is table in English. And the mesas or tables are spaces where different organizations and church leaders working in Bible translation come together to listen, learn, and collaborate around the Word of God. So the idea is simple, Woody. We sit at the same table with values like no competition, recognizing that each person and organization brings something special. It is a space for friendship, trust, dialogue, and discernment, seeking together how we can better serve God's mission. So this is this is the the the the way as we believe the the round tables. From so from the values and the culture of the round table, we create a different way to lead in Bible translation, to work about how we run with projects, how we run with activities, to mobilize the church, etc. Because before the round tables, we were doing Bible translation work in Latin America. And that's okay. But we had the lack of a shared space with the inter where the international organizations, national organizations could sit together, together to share okay, what you are doing, who you are, what you what are your goals. And from that space, from that context of say say what what we can do together. Because we have collaborations one to one, many collaborations, but but we didn't have the opportunity to bring 10, 12, eight 20 organizations together in the same space to say, okay, how we can best practice the Kingdom of God, how we can build a way as we can not duplicate efforts. We don't compete for projects, but we can recognize the local voices, the local church, the indigenous church, the local data to make the best decisions for a movement. Woody McLendon: That's awesome. But I'm sure that the transition from the traditional approach for international and local engagement to this type of new shared space was not an easy transition. And there was a lot of cultural and organizational habits that needed to be changed and perceptions and perhaps mistrust, miscommunication. How did you actually or how did God gift you with the capacity to begin to frame this new way of working together for the sake of the kingdom and begin to build this shared vision and shared approach? David: Yeah, Woody. It it has been a teamwork, not just me. So what we create in the Wycliffe Global Alliance was a peripheral team. The peripheral team, it's a team of 14 leaders from Latin America in different countries with the vision of collaboration. And of course they are serving in important roles in their organizations. And we are not in the center of the model. We are In the periphery around. Our role is to mentor the round tables, to bring the knowledge, to bring the influence, to support the national facilitation teams of the round tables. The center is the vision, the vision of the Bible translation and the values. So each national round table, they have a local facilitation team. So what we have done is every two years we bring together the national facilitation teams to train those people in facilitation skills for Bible translation roundtable. So we as a peripheral team we build together the materials, what they need to learn, and we practice in the in the three days training facilitation skills so they can learn how to facilitate and and to bring the mesa culture, the round tables culture, so they can experience, they can practice, and of course doing mentoring online and visits when it's possible, and to see the growth of a movement, of the collaboration movement and helping the round table, the 14 round tables to be influential for the Bible translation culture in every country. Woody McLendon: Wow, that sounds so impressive. I can think of a a bunch of questions that I would love to ask. We don't have a whole bunch of time left. We do have a bit, but I just In terms of the s the fruit that you've seen now of this approach, the mesas, these shared spaces, what are some things that encourage you that God is doing through these gatherings and this new shared culture around the mesa, the table? David: Yeah, I I Woody, I I can answer this question in different levels. One is the leadership level, the leadership of the organizations, national organizations and regional organizations. What we are seeing is that the values of the round tables are helping those leaders to relate to the Bible translation organizations and and churches in the jungle, in the mountains, or wherever they are. And those key words are listening, not making decisions just from one direction, the importance of collaboration, recognizing the importance of power in mission, that power is something real that every organization and every leader has. But we need to dialogue, we not we don't need to impose, but we need to make a space for to listen to each other. I think that at the organizational level is to transform the organizational culture. This is a process, this is not easy, it takes time. But leaders make the organizational culture. So if we bring in influence to the leadership context of the leadership movement in Bible translation, we can see the difference for now and for the future. So when you speak to a leader in the round tables in every country, you can say, okay, a round table is an opportunity to lead in collaboration. It's an opportunity to to dialogue, to listen, to practice friendship, not just Bible translation projects and products, but recognize that the Mission of God is a mission in community, is a mission in friendship, and is a mission that works like Trinity in collaboration. Woody McLendon: Thank you. That's what a beautiful picture. And thank you for both the courage and perseverance to listen and discern and follow God's leading to help shepherd and steward and make this concept real and across a number of countries. And I know there are many of us elsewhere in the world of Bible translation have great respect and appreciation and and and long to see this wonderful example demonstrated in the Americas have impact in other parts of the world too as this working together grows. So thank you. I'd like to shift a bit. We've had some really thoughtful, deep conversation. I'd like to shift to just a few fun questions to get to know you better, maybe have a smile or two. So just to change it up a bit, tell me what's a fun or silly tradition that you guys have as a family? David: So we we love to go to a park and kids they always they want to go to a park and park is the best third space in the neighborhood where we can just have fun, build friendships with other persons. So I think this is the best. This is one practice, one of the practices, and have an ice cream when possible is what the kids love, what Marlene and me love. Woody McLendon: That sounds like great fun. So tell me something that's in your office that when you look at it, it makes you smile. David: this this Yes, Woody McLendon: Bulletin board, board. David: this is I have pictures and letters, notes from Marlene. And she's she's a very loving person, and and some time to time she gives gifts, she gives me a picture, she gives me a letter to fill my heart. And also you can see the LEGOs. This is the best part for Elias. He loves to play with the Legos that we have built together. And this is a fun time because he likes to destroy. So we need to work together to bring the pieces together and try to build what we had before. But he's learning. He's learning that we need we are builders and that every piece has a place and that the pieces together, it's a beautiful picture. Woody McLendon: Wonderful. Wow. What a what a beautiful example practically. And yeah, David: and one more. Woody McLendon: yeah. David: This is a gift from Todd Poulter for my one of my birthdays. He sent me this from Hawaii, and this is a small sentence about leadership. It says, "Authority of one leader comes from the presence of God." Woody McLendon: Amen. David: I have a funniest experience. It's Woody McLendon: Okay, go ahead. David: when, yes, when I am in a meeting and the door is not locked and Elias comes to the room and say, hello, Papa, and I am in a meeting. People in the Zoom meeting just laugh. Woody McLendon: That's great. I love it. David: And it happens time to time. Woody McLendon: Well, and praise God. You know, it's fun when our our children can understand what we're doing and David: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: and be, and we can have a laugh there. So David, there was one other thing you wanted to show that it's important and makes you smile. Why don't you tell me a bit what that is and show it show it to us? David: Yes, this is my table. The table is something that travels with me when I have the opportunity to go to other meetings. And this expresses the culture of the round tables that we are building in Latin America. This is something that we built in the peripheral team. And the table means something special. The top, it's the purpose of the round table, and for us, it is God and His word translated to all languages. Then we have the values, and this is the way as people is behaving, or we want that people behave in the round table. So some of the values are collaborating well, not compete, not duplicate, treat with respect, linguistic hospitality, honor diversity, cultivate friendship, generosity, unity, build in-depth trust, practice dialogue. The four legs is an acronym. The "m" for mesa is mission, what the round table wants to do, what goals. The "e" is structure, in estructura, in Espanol, in Spanish. It is about how we organize the round table, who is leading, what is the agenda, how we structure the table. The "s" for salud is health in English, and it is about relationships, how we care each other, how we care unity, how we relieve tensions and differences. And the "a" is acción, action in English, and what is the table doing for Bible translation. So this travels with me, and many of you, of the people that know about me, will see David with a table. Woody McLendon: Thank you. That's wonderful. And thanks for explaining it because that's such a a practical way to visualize the core values and principles behind the mesas. And it travels. That's great. I love it. So a couple other quick questions. Tell me something that most people wouldn't know about you that's unique. David: Very unique. It is a secret. But I collect the boarding passes for the last 25 years. Woody McLendon: wow. David: One by one. I have those boarding passes in a box. And this is about a testimony of how God provides for His mission. And when I teach mission in a mission school, I share this as a testimony that God provides, God sustains, pain. God open doors, and God is protecting our travels, our journey. This is a secret, now in this podcast is not a secret anymore. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. I appreciate you sharing. And what a beautiful example of demonstrating God's goodness and mercy through something as simple but significant as a boarding pass and a collection of them over 25 years. I imagine you have a bunch now. So yeah, yeah. So a couple other David: Hundreds. Woody McLendon: quick questions. How many languages do you speak and what are they? David: Yeah, speak Spanish as my mother tongue, and I learned to speak English, Latin American English in a language school when I was in my high school. Woody McLendon: Well, you do you're doing a wonderful job in English. So David: Thank you. Woody McLendon: So when you're reading or listening to Scripture, which language do you prefer? I think I know the answer, but tell me anyway. David: Yeah, of course, I love Spanish. And we have different versions of the Bible in Spanish. I grew up with the version that my father and my pastor use. It's an old version. But I recognize that when the new generations come, they need to speak the language of their generation. So other version is also important to use when we read the Bible. Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. Thank you. So I'd like to ask a few questions in closing. If you had the opportunity or when you have the opportunity to speak with other leaders about values and principles that are important in Bible translation, I feel like you've already touched on those, but what specifically d would you counsel other leaders for how to lead faithfully in the Bible translation movement today? David: One that is very important is don't lead over Jesus' sandals. So Jesus' sandals is the place to lead, but don't lead higher than that. This metaphor invites to bring humility, servant heart, see each other as friends and that we are serving the same Lord. So this is one of the most important to me. And from that point, how to lead in mission, Bible translation, collaboration, friendship, listening, recognizing other persons with dignity as an image of God and that they have dignity that we need to respect and honor. Listening, finding third spaces because we have different ways of thinking, not to impose but to build together. This is my journey. From my experience, I try to challenge others how to lead in God's mission. Woody McLendon: Thank you. Those are wonderful and rich principles that thankfully they're obviously rooted in Scripture, and opportunity to grow and learn together in those, I I really appreciate that. So I'd also like you to think about if you had opportunity to speak to men and women serving in ministry who are maybe sensing God's call to step into a greater greater level of leadership rep responsibility, how would you advise them? What would you encourage them to think about this journey of potentially leading in the mission service role in Bible translation? David: Yeah, identity in Christ. Because sometimes leaders are seeking position, power, influence, because they have a personal ego. But if you are living with ego, you will destroy many persons. So the best is lead from your identity in Christ like Jesus did with the Father in relation to the Father. And take to the cross your personal ego and of course the organizational ego. And let's lead with a humble heart like Jesus did. The best is lead like Jesus did, depending on the Father, depending on His provision, and trying to glorify the Lord always. Woody McLendon: Amen. Thank you. Very wise and thoughtful. Not easy to follow, obviously, but important principles and thank you for those reminders. Last two questions. As you look at what's happening, what God's doing in the world today of Bible translation, what gives you great encouragement and hope? David: Yeah, my hope is that the Bible translation is advancing very fast. Of course, more language groups are getting the Bible in different ways. What I mean is emerging ways of Bible translation using oral multimodality. This is very encouraging. Also, the purpose is not having the New Testament. It's having the full Bible, the full counsel of Lord. of the Lord. So that is very encouraging. How the church is participating in Bible translation. Every year more churches are coming to be part of the dance. And in that dance, how we can be in the sharing space, giving space, opportunities to new leaders, to new churches, and the large organizations, the other organizations, traditional organizations, learning to dance with others with a different culture. Woody McLendon: Wonderful. That's awesome. What a great picture too. I love that. So based on what you're observing and seeing, what challenges do you feel like the church and the ministries involved in Bible translation, what are the biggest challenges we're facing today for which we need a move of God or a new approach or or whatever to respond to? David: I think in Latin America it's about generosity because the traditional model is funding coming from the North, of Europe, for example. But the Latin American church, we have the money. You can see our temples. You can see what we are doing. We have money. God has provided. So one of the challenges is how we can encourage the church to be part in generosity, not just money, but other ways of generosity. Other is how to collaborate well with the Indigenous church because they are also growing and they have also power, knowledge, so how we can work together as brothers and sisters and not imposing but giving the opportunity for good collaboration. I think these are the two, for me in my perspective, most important challenges. Woody McLendon: Okay. Well, thank you. And we can trust God together for answers and prayerfully engage, and encourage and see the Lord work as we have seen the Lord do amazing things to date in opening doors and connecting believers. So thank you, David. It's been a delight to have this conversation. I'm blessed and enriched from the things that you have shared and trust that others are too. So thank you so much. Really do appreciate this time together. David: My pleasure. Thank you so much, Woody, for this wonderful conversation. Woody McLendon: Yeah, and to all those listening and watching, I just want to say thank you for joining and participating in this journey. Specifically would ask if this message encouraged you, share it with one other person who might also be encouraged to hear David's story and his testimony. This is a a shared learning. As we grow together, we learn together. So thank you. God bless you and have a wonderful David: Amen. Woody McLendon: day.